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Does It Count as a Loss When the Site is Down?

I think for the rest of the season we shall refer to games like this--where the opposing right-handed starter expertly changes speeds and hits his spots--as being Sonnanstined. Mike Mussina doesn't have much in the way of stuff anymore, but he made up for on Wednesday night by throwing strikes--good strikes, on the corners--and mixing in some junk. A 65 MPH curveball here, a knuckleball there, 86 MPH with movement on the black, the White Sox hitters were perplexed.

Give them an Edwin Jackson, a Dana Eveland, a Daniel Cabrera, they'll mount a credible offensive attack. But if you've got a Sonnanstine, a Lance Broadway with control, these Sox are probably in for a long night.

Joe Crede and Carlos Quentin provided all of the Sox offense against Moose, each with a solo-shot, the former on a poorly located fastball and the latter on a hanging 73 MPH breaking ball. The rest of the Sox combined to reach base just twice in 7 innings against the veteran hurler.

For the second straight night, the Sox provided some excitement by destroying the non-Joba/Mo part of the Yankees bullpen. But for the second straight night, Girardi smartly called on one of his aces in the hole to put out the fire and end the Sox hope of a comback.

The loss is the Sox' 5th straight versus the Yankees at USCF, and their 7th in their last 8 meetings on the south side. It's the Sox first losing streak since back-to-back losses on the 9th and 11th of the month.

They've played 11 games since those two losses, during which I've routinely lauded their play, going 6-5 in the interim. That's not exactly tearing it up for a team that's "playing well." Perhaps it's time to reconsider that notion.

I'd be remiss if I didn't mention Javier Vazquez' inconsistent outing on the night. At times, Javy was attacking hitters and having easy innings. At others, like the second inning, for instance, he seemed like he wanted nothing to do with the strike zone and paid for it. Then, just for good measure and to put the game just out of reach, he was hit hard as he threw lots of strikes to end his outing.

* * * * *

My favorite part of the broadcast--when I wasn't tuning out Hawk and DJ as usual--was when Jorge Posada hit his third double of the game. Hawk made a comment, which was met with silence from DJ, about the hit "sounding weird." I can understand why DJ was silent, as it seemed like Hawk was insinuating that Posada was corking his bat. After a measured pause, DJ asked him in directly indirect fashion "did you think that bat had a weird hollow sound?" Hawk immediately laughed it off, No, that's not what he meant. He knows that sound, chuckle.

But what I really liked from the exchange was a few pitches later when DJ asked Hawk "Have you ever seen that show Mythbusters?" He would then go on to explain their baseball myths episode, and how when they tested corked bats they found no difference (or a negative effect, I don't remember now) in ball speed off the bat. DJ, expressing exactly the same concern I had with their conclusion, said it's not about ball speed off the bat, it's about the speed of a bat itself. After all, you can get a 31 ounce bat around faster than a 32 ouncer.

There's also something of a psychological effect to the corked, slightly lighter bat. It's the same reason you swing with doughnut on your bat in the on deck circle. If the bat feels lighter in the box than it does normally, you've got a better shot at getting around on some major league heat, or fighting off those tough breaking pitches.

* * * * *

We had a major outage during the game, as I'm sure most of you are aware. I'm not exactly privvy to the details of the outage, other than to say it was a problem with our server structure. All I can say is that I'm positive we have a number of people working hard to make sure it doesn't happen again.

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Bring on Hughes

We’re a fastball hitting team, we handle power pitchers. Though any start by Floyd in the Cell scares me, hopefully the wind is blowing in tomorrow as well

by 3E8 on Apr 24, 2008 12:13 AM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I still wouldn't expect much success

It’s not like Hughes is Poreda or anything. He actually does have secondary pitches, good ones at that. I wouldn’t expect Hughes to have much trouble figuring out that he can’t hit a breaking ball or off-speed pitch.

That being said, I wouldn’t be surprised if we saw him. He did get a rare plate appearance in arguably non-garbage time tonight.

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Apr 24, 2008 12:25 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yeah

Sox historically suck against pitchers they see for the first time. Not sure if it is the advance scouting, Walker or just the players.

Not sure if the game is going to get in anyway – we are supposed to get pounded with rain later this afternoon.

"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."

by BobbySouthSide on Apr 24, 2008 8:03 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

a really good book that discusses corked bats and their effect is ‘the cheaters guide to baseball.’

ITS A GODDAMNED READING RAINBOW!

Also Giambi’s intestinal parasite could have drawn a walk tonight from Javi, providing there were all ready 2 outs.

by thecip on Apr 24, 2008 12:16 AM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

One more thought as I head to bed

The two runs in the 5th scored on a double that would have been caught by an elite CFer, be it an Anderson, Young, Carlos Gonzalez… It was the first time this season Swisher averagenessitude has cost the Sox run, which says more about how well he’s played in CF than the 2 runs plated.

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Apr 24, 2008 1:04 AM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

i can't tell

if this is an indictment or an endorsement. clearly he is not an elite CFer, but at the same time i would think that his “averagenessitude” is a quality in that you get his bat with what i think you are calling standard CF play. no? or do you mean that he simply hasn’t seen many of the balls hit that would expose his ability?

I’m Ron Burgundy?

by MarketMaker on Apr 24, 2008 2:36 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

If I told you...

I had a reliever at the triple-a level of this organization who had not allowed a hit in his 6.2 innings this year as well as striking out more than one per inning…

would that be something that would interest you?

by MarketMaker on Apr 24, 2008 2:58 AM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

how about...

a centerfielder with great range who was hitting .325 with a .426 OBP while stealing bases at an 83% clip and at a rate of one every 2 games?

...no? but you did say you were interested in that reliever, right?

by MarketMaker on Apr 24, 2008 3:05 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Not to mention

He has no arm, so any ball he gets to doesn’t matter, see Johnny Damon.

by Grinder in Training on Apr 24, 2008 10:39 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

At least Damon can still hit and run

as evidence by his performance the first 2 games of this series.

I can’t stand J.Damon. This hurts.

I took the "under".

by winningugly on Apr 24, 2008 10:59 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Last nights game

Well, I went to the game and have a few thoughts.

1. Where are the fans…Sox are (as of now) playing above .500 ball and there was only 27k at the ballpark against the Yankees. Upper deck was basically empty.
2. Team looked like 07’ team. Looked like they were just going through the motions (over confident?) until it later in the game when it was too late.
3. 2006 Version of Javy appeared again. Falling behind hitters consistently. Getting two outs and then giving up the big inning (or two).
4. Fat Uribe trying to jump to snag a liner. IT was like watching Will Perdue jump for a rebound…his vertical was about 4 inches. If that was some popeye’s he was reaching for he would have gotten it. (sorry for the Uribe rant – guy has no business playing MLB ball.)

"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."

by BobbySouthSide on Apr 24, 2008 8:09 AM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Well

1.) they lost 90 games, and haven’t exactly come out like gangbusters. The season ticket base took a hit, so get used to some weak attended games until the summer. This team with its crappy play last year did itself in on the attendance game.
2.) The offense is last in batting average again, just like last year. The only saving grace are the new people we brought in who can take a pitch and walk. If it wasnt for them, this team would be 5 below .500. The perfect storm seems to have found a new warmer version called the Season of hitting Sucktitude.
3.) We seem to be calling a lot of breaking pitches this year as a group.
4.) Fat Uribe can go away anytime now.

by southsideirish71 on Apr 24, 2008 9:45 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Avg.

I don’t really put a lot of stock in batting average. I put more in OBP and Runs Scored. Sox are 6th in OBP and 4th in runs scored and have played the least amount of games in the AL.

They hit on Tue night but couldn’t execute in getting baserunners in and last night they just didn’t hit at all until it was too late.

Uribe needs to be benched for Ramirez right now. He can’t hit a lick and it isn’t like he is just slumping – he just plain sucks. He is the blackhole in the lineup right now.

"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."

by BobbySouthSide on Apr 24, 2008 10:07 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You dont take too much stock

But there has to be some stock in it. At some point, you are going to run into a pitcher like Mussina that wont walk people. We are generating offense based on walks, and generating offense based off of men on. When you get a pitcher that doesnt give you free passes then the team needs to hit. Its one thing if we were middle of the pack in ba, but we are absolutely last. Dead last. OBP is a combination of what you do at the plate, and what you do as far as patience. You need both.

by southsideirish71 on Apr 24, 2008 10:13 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Tickets for this series are way too expensive.

You can’t charge 45 bucks for outfield seats and 32 bucks for upper deck seats for a weeknight game in April, even if it is the Yankees.

This team was brutal to watch last year, and even though its suprisingly less brutal this year, I still can’t help to think that these inflated ticket prices are the reason we’re paying 13 million dollars for Crede and Uribe.

by chrome on Apr 24, 2008 10:12 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Still a lot cheaper

than the Northside. That is the going rate around the league.

13 or 10mil?

"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."

by BobbySouthSide on Apr 24, 2008 10:43 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Not really.

Go take a look at the Cubs ticket prices. Their bleacher tickets are the same as ours, except you could throw out a few buckets of shit on the field, and the Cubs would still sell out the bleachers so a bunch of cornstuffed Iowans can get the “Wrigley experience”.

Take a look at the Cleveland and Detroit ticket prices. Sox tickets have really gotten expensive, partially becuase they’ve extended “prime” pricing to way too many games. If this Yankees series was in August, then it would be justified. But seats in section 101 aren’t worth 45 bucks on a cool Wednesday evening in April.

by chrome on Apr 24, 2008 10:59 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

take a look at prices in general in cleveland and detroit.

in their respective baseball purgatories, both frank thomas and jerry owens loudly whine.

by larry on Apr 24, 2008 11:02 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

A few thoughts......

Our middle of the order is like somebody who bought a fashionable dress/suit a few years ago….but still wears it and it just isn’t in style any longer.

I’m ready to watch A. Ramirez get a few starts at 2B. Can his offensive production exceed Uribe’s? I think. Will we suffer defensively? Yes. Is it worth at least giving a shot now? IMO—yes.

A couple of notes from Charlotte last night….

Another well-pitched game from L. Broadway, another solid JO performance, and Fields with 3 hits (HR)...also, Egbert pitched a solid inning out of the pen, Wasserman continues to dominate….

Frustrating start to the week no doubt, but a win tonight and then 3/4 against Baltimore would have me in good spirits when the team leaves after Monday’s matinee.

by stanchar on Apr 24, 2008 8:33 AM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think it's safe to say that Uribe is finally killing us with his awful bat...

Our offense has started to take a dump and we now need all the offense we can get. Uribe’s glove it not making up for his offense right now. I wouldn’t mind seeing Ramirez play some 2B at this point.

by SSH2005 on Apr 24, 2008 9:00 AM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

How the f*ck

Did Kenny give him $5 million?

"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."

by BobbySouthSide on Apr 24, 2008 9:39 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Ozzie wants to stick with Uribe

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/912767,CST-SPT-soxnt24.article

’’A lot of people just look at the average, they look at the way he is,’’ Guillen said. ’’Juan is Juan. We know he will hit. But one of the biggest reasons we have him as a starter is because he’s playing great defense. The reason we are where we are is Uribe. He’s playing good baseball. He’s going to hit what he hits, but every time I need him to move the guy over, he’s doing it. We asked him to take more pitches, he’s doing it.
’’He’s going to take wild swings, and we know that. If a lot of people are criticizing him and wondering about him, well, he’s hitting the same as Paulie [Konerko]. I believe in defense, and that’s why he’s still there.’‘

He believes in defense unless you are a blonde kid who like the hunnies. If only Anderson liked twinkies as much as the hunnies he might have a chance. This is the same uribe who needed a hot september in 06 to beat out Brian Anderson for worst BA.

by southsideirish71 on Apr 24, 2008 10:02 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That's saddening

Difference is Paulie is slumping and Juan just can’t hit.

Move a guy over? When?

Take more pitches? I saw it on Sunday and he had a good game against TB. Other than that he isn’t taking pitches…just screw driving his fat a$$ into the batters box with every profundo swing.

"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."

by BobbySouthSide on Apr 24, 2008 10:10 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Really?

The few times that Ramirez has batted, he’s looked even worse than Uribe.

I know you hate, hate, hate Uribe, but I fail to see an upgrade anywhere.

Ramirez should be down at AAA, playing every day.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Apr 24, 2008 10:41 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

remember

uribe is always bad. nothing could be worse than uribe. when he’s right, he’s wrong. when he’s wrong, he’s wrong.

in their respective baseball purgatories, both frank thomas and jerry owens loudly whine.

by larry on Apr 24, 2008 10:44 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

he must be married

"Lipstick traces on cigarettes can get you in trouble or remind you of the wonders of the night before."

by Chiburb on Apr 24, 2008 10:45 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'm curious:

How many of the Sox 9 losses do you attribute to Uribe playing 2nd and batting 8th or 9th?
And how many fewer would they have if Ramirez had been there?

"Lipstick traces on cigarettes can get you in trouble or remind you of the wonders of the night before."

by Chiburb on Apr 24, 2008 10:45 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

uribe is personally responsible for ten of those losses

in their respective baseball purgatories, both frank thomas and jerry owens loudly whine.

by larry on Apr 24, 2008 10:47 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

If it wasn't for Uribe...

that game against the Twins would not have been rained out, and the Sox would have won that game, too.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Apr 24, 2008 10:49 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

He's also really fat.

Fatty fat fat fat.

Never trust a big butt and a smile.
Sox Machine

by Sox Machine on Apr 24, 2008 10:55 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

i'd never heard anyone mention that before

in their respective baseball purgatories, both frank thomas and jerry owens loudly whine.

by larry on Apr 24, 2008 10:56 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Did you know he shot a man

just to watch him die?

I took the "under".

by winningugly on Apr 24, 2008 10:57 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

i've been doing some preliminary statistical analysis

and, interestingly, uribe seems to add wins to teams that the sox aren’t even playing against at the time. these are still rough numbers but the “true” records of some of the teams:

twins 8-14
tigers 0-22
indians 7-15
royals 9-11 (no apparent uribe effect)
white sox 21 – -1 (negative losses, i’m not sure if i should include them in the win or the loss column; something to think about)

oddly, this effect seems to transcend leagues. for example, the padres should be 7-15 and the diamondbacks seem to really benefit from the “uribe effect” as they should be 6-15. strangely enough, however, uribe seems to have the opposite effect on the nationals, who, but for uribe’s continued existence, would be 16-6.

in their respective baseball purgatories, both frank thomas and jerry owens loudly whine.

by larry on Apr 24, 2008 10:58 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Plus all the damage that he's done to the farm system

I read where Baseball America would rank the Sox minor league system in the top ten in baseball if Uribe wasn’t in the organization.

by hitlesswonder on Apr 24, 2008 10:57 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

he has an effect outside of baseball, as well

some u of c sociologists are theorizing that uribe is responsible for the crime, blight, and poverty for fifteen miles surrounding the cell. apparently, i’d be making 16.3% more if it weren’t for uribe. oh. almost forgot. he’s fat. probably means he’s responsible for the rice rationing at sam’s club and costco.

in their respective baseball purgatories, both frank thomas and jerry owens loudly whine.

by larry on Apr 24, 2008 11:04 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Damn

You got to the rice rationing before I did. I hate missing a chance at a Uribe is fat joke. Anyway, if food rationing spreads to include Ho-Hos, Twinkies, and other Hostess products I think we all know where to look.

by hitlesswonder on Apr 24, 2008 11:07 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

He's the most interesting man in the world

just not in a way that you’d tout.

"Lipstick traces on cigarettes can get you in trouble or remind you of the wonders of the night before."

by Chiburb on Apr 24, 2008 11:07 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The more I watch him

The more I realize DJ is pretty sharp. He just has the unfortunate characteristic of adapting the traits of the guy next to him.

From what I remember hearing when he works the occasional Saturday Fox game, he’s acceptable.

Never trust a big butt and a smile.
Sox Machine

by Sox Machine on Apr 24, 2008 9:17 AM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I agree that when he's away from Hawk

he’s actually more than acceptable. Good, in fact.
Too bad Hawk doesn’t set up his color guy the way Farmer is doing (very well) for Stone.

"Lipstick traces on cigarettes can get you in trouble or remind you of the wonders of the night before."

by Chiburb on Apr 24, 2008 10:13 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

you know

i think you may be right. an interesting exchange from earlier this week, can’t remember the game, was something like dj: “i’m bringing you around on some of this stuff, right.” hawk: “i’m getting there.” dj: “well, that’s a conversation for another time.”

that was a fucking tease. from the context and tenor of their conversation it seemed like they were talking about such ground-breaking things as statistics instead of whatever the hell hawk thinks. the broadcasts have actually been somewhat bearable so far this year and dj seems to be getting more latitude with his analysis and hawk is actually agreeing with some of it and playing along. we’re still getting some of the annoying, “aw that’s just grandpa – he’s crazy” stuff from hawk but there actually seems to be some growth going on.

in their respective baseball purgatories, both frank thomas and jerry owens loudly whine.

by larry on Apr 24, 2008 10:27 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Old dog = new tricks

Perhaps he wants to keep his job. Less reminiscing (since we’ve heard every story) and more relative analysis might just do it.

Or retirement is just around the corner. And who wants to retire from THAT gig?

I took the "under".

by winningugly on Apr 24, 2008 10:56 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I agree with that

I hate, hate, hate hawk and DJ. But DJ was shockingly OK when doing a national. Making hawk GM was an underrated move because at least it got him out of the booth.

by hitlesswonder on Apr 24, 2008 10:56 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

on the 1st batter jenks faced

I think stoney said something about bobby throwing a splitter, working on a splitter

anybody heard it too?

by The Wizard on Apr 24, 2008 10:52 AM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Not me. I couldn't even watch the game thinking you'd been assimilated

into the Borg. Given that Larry said you’d been replaced by a computer, then having no game thread (or even a site), I was hoping you’d at least found comfort in the arms of Jeri Ryan.

"Lipstick traces on cigarettes can get you in trouble or remind you of the wonders of the night before."

by Chiburb on Apr 24, 2008 10:57 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

DJ rattled off a splitter as part of Jenks' repetoire

It made me give a confused look to my wife as I’ve never seen Bobby throw a splitter. Maybe DJ wasn’t talking out of his ass for once.

by the wimperoo on Apr 24, 2008 10:59 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

So that was a splitter?

He threw some nasty 12-6 pitch against the Orioles last week, I thought it was just a new wicked curve he’d developed. Of course it went unnoticed by Hawk & DJ, figures Stone is right on top of it.

''It's a grinder-type attitude, energetic attitude, confident-type attitude, and if it grinds on some people, then I need to know who those people are so we can move them on''

by ChicagoPete on Apr 24, 2008 7:59 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Corked bats

I’ve never understood why no one has ever really looked into this. If I had a physics spot at a university and a small grant I’d simply set up a test with the college baseball team. Have them take pitches off of a pitching machine to keep them constant. Give them numbered bats, some corked some not and let them hit away. Videotape the whole thing. Chart the hits and compare them with the numbers. If there is any difference between corked and non-corked bats it should show up pretty easily.
I saw that Mythbusters episode and was pretty unimpressed too.

Optimist

by Peder on Apr 24, 2008 6:30 PM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

or just

create a testing device (like in golf) that measures speed of the ball off the bat when force is kept constant for corked and non-corked bats

There seems to be two things with corked bats: is (when bat speed is constant) there an increase in ball speed off the bat?

And 2nd, do corked bats give a better force/weight ratio than non-corked? If a player can swing a lighter corked bat faster does it give an advantage over a heavier non-corked bat?

by madvillian on Apr 25, 2008 12:38 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

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