Waiting For Average

by colintj on Apr 28, 2008 9:00 PM CDT Comment 195 comments

Realistically, this game should have been a win for the White Sox. It was called after the Sox went quietly in their half of the 11th, at which point they had managed 8 hits and 9 walks yet just 3 runs. We went in vain waiting for that timely base hit, one that will have to wait now until, it appears, June.

Meanwhile, back on April 19, Cheat penned this:

Elephant in the Room

After being limited to just 3 hits, one of which was a bunt, by Sonnanstine on Saturday, the White Sox now rank 13th in the AL in batting average at .239, lower than they hit during the dismal '07 season, fractions of a percentage point away from the cellar (Cleveland at .239, or .2389). It has gone largely unnoticed thanks to good plate discipline and timely homeruns, but the Sox still aren't hitting.

The starting lineup today featured two batters with an average above .250, Nick Swisher and Joe Crede. That's not going to cut it, no matter how many walks they draw or how many homers they crank.

And then a footnote from April 23:

The Sox offense had a productive game against Wang. It just didn't result in--how do I put this--runs. They left a baker's dozen stranded on the basepaths tonight.

It's even Official SSH Doctrine™ at this point, so it bears investigation. Thus I direct you to check out the THT team stats page. The relevant stats here are line drive rate, ground ball rate and BABIP (18%, 44% and .258, respectively). It's a pretty good portrait for our team right now, but remember that we've still completed just 15% of the season. In any case, our expected BABIP by line drive rate is .300, 40 points north of what Carlos (long may he live) and Co. have managed. I say regression is in order and we can probably start revising our expected OBP upward as a result.

Like many of my generation I know that half of everything is luck and as such will be expecting our offense to get a few more timely hits. So just maybe that ¡Profundo! homer to tie it was the beginning? Perhaps and I hope so, since Sox pitchers have been giving up home runs on just 6% of fly balls. A mark like that for a team that plays in The Cell is untenable and the biggest benefactor has been Gavin Floyd (he the thrower of but 34 % ground balls). The starters are fourth in the AL in win probability added, but at some point, Gavin is going to revert to his adequate 4th/5th starter status.

If we are finally daring to look up at the season ahead of us to see if we do have a shot, then I feel far more uncertainty about the quality of the pitching than the quality of this lineup as constructed. But let's be straight, there's no reason to have high hopes. This is a .500 team, right?

...Right?

James: And the other half?

Alec: Fate.

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AVG is definitely not the be all end all...

but I know a freaking measly single would score some of these runners we keep stranding on base. It’s getting old to watch game after game…

by SSH2005 on Apr 28, 2008 9:33 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

The Average would work if they had a plan of attack

Lets face it, outside of the new invitees. The whitesox motto has been swing as hard as you can, elevate the ball, and try and hit cars on the Dan Ryan. No matter what the count, no matter the situation. Swing as hard as possible. Look at Carlos and how he approaches his ABs. He sits closed with a hands high set. His swing stroke drops down on the ball, and squares it up. He doesnt upper cut the ball. His finish gets the lift on the ball, no artificial upper cut like a lot our guys put on the ball. On 2 strikes, he chokes up a notch, and uses bat control to drive the ball up the middle and to right. These are the things we dont teach well for this team. If half of our team just watched this kid, and took his approach we would have a great hitting team. Hopefully we dont read about Walk tweaking Carlo’s swing for more power. If this team tried to hit the ball hard, and not try to hit home runs it would work a lot better.

by southsideirish71 on Apr 28, 2008 9:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

the balls we hit

aren’t landing for hits at the rates they normally do. if there is a reason for this other than “bad luck” it isn’t the approach. examining our approach can only account for the batted ball break down, which appears perfectly in order.

dude, that was totally not swish you saw on rush street last night. swish was at home playing xbox.

by colintj on Apr 28, 2008 9:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

come on, colin

we all know there must be a reason other than just random variation. i’m questioning the manliness of this sox team. we’re just not out-masculining the other team.

free jason bourgeois

by larry on Apr 28, 2008 9:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think its a bit more than that

The way to attack this team is with a dedicated low and away pitch selection. On 2 strikes you go out of the zone, and also pitching backwards ( throwing breaking pitches in fastball counts ) seem to get this team into trouble. Pulling a pitch on the lower outside half isnt a recipe for success. You will get a lot of easily played ground outs to the pull side, or pop ups to the opposite side. If you let the ball get further back in the hitting plane on contact, you can drive it up the middle and oppo. Our team gets around on the ball too quick at times. Thome right now is in that funk. He is a hair to quick on some of his pitches, and you see the dramatic foul with home run distance.

To me its a two factor issue. By pulling low and away pitches we are not getting a well struck ball. The other issue is when you see a hitter go with the pitch, the pitcher will come back inside to reclaim the outer half. This is when you see more mistakes that our power hitters can turn on and get the extension they are looking for on the low and away pitch. Steve Stone today was talking about how pitchers were attacking AJ away, and he was obviously with his approach today was awaiting a center cut pitch that never came. AJ this year has been a good guy to let the ball get deep into the hitting plane and drive into left center so I think today is more of an aberration.

Soft tossers like to keep the ball low and away ( unless they feature a cutter). Hence why we have problems with them. And hard throwers challenge the hitter in, and leave the ball up and over the plate which is our speciality. Those are the pitchers we crush. This is why a guy like Verlander we can hit, meanwhile a soft tosser who spots low and away looks like Cy Young.

by southsideirish71 on Apr 28, 2008 11:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

It's fine that you have that theory

but I don’t know exactly the extent to which is matters and how much we can do anything about it. Give me some more context and I’ll be able to address your concern more thoroughly. But as it stands, it’s an extended guess with some anecdotal evidence. Maybe that isn’t fair, but it appears to be true.

dude, that was totally not swish you saw on rush street last night. swish was at home playing xbox.

by colintj on Apr 28, 2008 11:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Actually Sir you are correct.

My theories are just that theories based on perceptions of watching a lot of pitchers attack our hitters. I have no hard evidence outside of me watching a lot of catchers and pitchers setup an attack plan on our hitters.

The only way I can see a theory proved like this is if there was ever a correlation of Pfx data, a strikezone chart ( X and Y axis showing where the pitch was thrown, and contact was made, and a spray chart showing where outs and hits were made ( another grid model ). I used to do something like this manually when I pitched in college when I did a pitching chart.

by southsideirish71 on Apr 29, 2008 8:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Old dogs new tricks and so on

This is a veteran ballclub, loaded with players pulling down a LOT of money – and they’ve gotten where they are hitting the exact same way they’re hitting right now. You’re not going to turn PK, JD, JT, Swisher, Uribe and Joe Crede into oppo field situational hitters. They are what they are, sluggers who are good fits for the Cell. Even AJ has altered his style ever since he got traded here.

You can’t expect these guys to completely revamp their swings and their approach, I don’t care who the batting coach is. You can ask them nicely, but at the end of the day these guys know they’re getting paid to put the ball in the seats, not to hit the ground ball to the opposite field for the little base hit.

This team as currently constructed is a softball team. Ozzie realized this early and left them alone, but now he’s trying to force his style on the lineup in the past week. All he’s doing is exposing what these hitters are NOT capable of.

"The little things are always in my mind," he said. "I always like to move the guy over, I like to bunt."

by ChicagoPete on Apr 29, 2008 8:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Exactly!

by SoxfaninAZ on Apr 29, 2008 9:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

That makes sense

it doesn’t explain why we can’t hit hard throwing closers and relievers.

by Where Triples Go to Die on Apr 29, 2008 8:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Actually

This team has been good at beating closers over the years. Outside of Nathan we have busted out a few good to great hard throwing closers.

by southsideirish71 on Apr 29, 2008 8:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Like JJ Putz?

by Where Triples Go to Die on Apr 29, 2008 8:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

"swing as hard as you can, elevate the ball, and try and hit cars on the Dan Ryan. No matter what the count, no matter the situation."

Ha Ha Ha.

Pitching and defense.

by ballyb on Apr 28, 2008 10:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

sweet

A Goldeneye reference. When I look at today’s game all I can do is laugh. Both teams squandering chances (especially the Sox), then Profundo gets profound on a fastball and pulls a not-a-loss from from the jaws of defeat.

Sox really need to get Dye back ASAP. Having an extra AAAA player in the lineup sucks and hows how vulnerable they will be to injuries all year.

Ozzie’s retarded decisions on the hit and run and then the squeeze seems to mean we’re back at square one as far as realizing the sort of team he has.

by madvillian on Apr 28, 2008 10:05 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Was the squeeze a bad decision?

I’ll be contrarian here. What are the odds Anderson gets the run home any other way? Or, perhaps an even better way to look at it, what does Ozzie think the odds are that Anderson gets that run home after watching Anderson K on a slider away for the last 2 years? If Anderson gets the bunt down, the Sox win the game. I’m not sure the expected value of not bunting was better than bunting.

by hitlesswonder on Apr 28, 2008 10:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't know

He came thru in a similar situation a few days ago.

MrROFL.com
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by shaftr on Apr 28, 2008 10:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Lets count the ways the run could of scored with a man on and less than 2 outs

Passed ball
Wild Pitch
Ball through the drawn in infield
Ball hit over the head of the drawn in outfield
Ball hit into a gap
Fly ball ( Bad throw to the plate )
Error

And we had 2 outs to play with. To execute the squeeze, you need to have a guy that has excellent bat control. He needs to hold the bat back long enough to decoy the squeeze play and allow for the break.

Now BA should of made contact with the ball. It was a bad bunt and all. But then again we are in the American league and you can score a run from 3rd without the Squeeze.

by southsideirish71 on Apr 28, 2008 11:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

5 out of those 7 require BA making contact.

A rigorous examination would require knowing the probabilities of every run scoring scenario…and that’s not worth figuring out.

I agree is probably just better to let 2 guys have shots to drive in the run, but its not like there was a good hitter in the on-deck circle when BA was up.

Although I wouldn’t have done it (as if anyone cares) I don’t think squeezing was a terrible decision.

by hitlesswonder on Apr 28, 2008 11:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Uh hello, it's Brian Anderson at the plate

A squeeze is perfectly reasonable with that douchebag batting, put the fucking bat on the ball and at least foul it off you idiot. I don’t see how you can fault Ozzie for that call, it’s perfectly reasonable with him at the plate. You don’t expect him to completely whiff on a bunt attempt to leave the runner hanging out there.

"The little things are always in my mind," he said. "I always like to move the guy over, I like to bunt."

by ChicagoPete on Apr 29, 2008 9:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Unless that bunt was down the 1st base line

I doubt it would have worked – the infield was in and the conditions for running were bad

by Brush Back on Apr 29, 2008 9:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

If the bunt was on the ground, it would have worked.

No way Q! wasn’t scoring. No way.

Pitching and defense.

by ballyb on Apr 29, 2008 9:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

It wasn't a safety squeeze, it was a suicide

All he needs to do is put the ball into play anywhere in fair territory and the run scores. If a guy who is as shitty a hitter as him can’t execute that, then he shouldn’t be on the roster. He’s not some .900 OPS slugger, he’s a poor hitter with no power – he needs to be able to execute a fucking simple bunt where placement is irrelevant, even a foul ball is acceptable. The only excuse to completely whiff on it would be if they had a pitchout or threw the ball at his head.

"The little things are always in my mind," he said. "I always like to move the guy over, I like to bunt."

by ChicagoPete on Apr 29, 2008 9:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not dis-agreeing BA should have made contact

Just don’t believe it would have worked – the paths were all water.

And if it is such a guaranteed a play – why is it rarely ever used?

by Brush Back on Apr 29, 2008 9:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Because it's high risk, and the reward is just one run

You only use it when all you need is one run. The risk is that the opposing team anticipates it and pitches out or throws at your head. You need a certain amount of balls to call it, because if it fails you look like a complete idiot. Tony LaRussa is the only manager who does it on any kind of consistent basis, it used to be much more common. Most hitters nowadays think bunting is for pussies, so they don’t practice it and can’t execute it. A Nick Swisher has an excuse for not bunting, and asking him to bunt is pigheaded and foolish – asking a marginal player like Brian Anderson to get a bat on the ball during a bunt attempt is perfectly reasonable. If he wants to play in the major leagues with his weakass bat he better be able to put down a bunt.

"The little things are always in my mind," he said. "I always like to move the guy over, I like to bunt."

by ChicagoPete on Apr 29, 2008 9:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

bunting is for pussies

or, more specifically, pussies who only want one run. we know bunting is generally a silly thing to do so, nowadays, most players don’t focus on it.

you’re right that BA should – in fact, probably needs to – be able to bunt. the problem is that ozzie should – in fact, probably needs to – know that BA can’t do that. it’s not perfectly reasonable if the guy can’t do it and the manager should know that.

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by larry on Apr 29, 2008 9:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well, if Ozzie still has it in for him

that’s a good way to get him off the roster, “See Kenny, I told you this asshole is useless – he can’t even bunt!”

"The little things are always in my mind," he said. "I always like to move the guy over, I like to bunt."

by ChicagoPete on Apr 29, 2008 9:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

well, i think the better argument would be "he can't even make contact"

that’s basically all that was required. having Q run on contact is a higher percentage play than the suicide squeeze. there’s a reason “suicide” is in there.

free jason bourgeois

by larry on Apr 29, 2008 9:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I actually think Ozzie wanted to give him the chance to be a hero and help his confidence

Anderson has always had major problems getting the guy in from 3rd with less than 2 outs, I don’t know how to pull the stats but in 2006 he was completely useless in those situations. I think asking him to bunt gave him the best chance to succeed, and he couldn’t even get the bat on the ball. I don’t care how poor a bunter he is, that’s lame.

"The little things are always in my mind," he said. "I always like to move the guy over, I like to bunt."

by ChicagoPete on Apr 29, 2008 9:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

if bunting is his best chance to succeed

than he shouldn’t be on the roster. even jerry owens can reliably hit a groundball to second.

free jason bourgeois

by larry on Apr 29, 2008 9:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

We all know he can't hit and probably shouldn't be on the roster

As much as Ozzie likes defense I’m sure he’s looking for reasons to keep him on the roster – being able to execute a bunt would certainly help his chances. He swung and missed on strike one, he had his opportunity to bring it home in manly fashion.

"The little things are always in my mind," he said. "I always like to move the guy over, I like to bunt."

by ChicagoPete on Apr 29, 2008 9:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

the percentage play is not a suicide squeeze

brian is not so poor of a contact hitter as to render it necessary for him to bunt. ozzie fucked up. big time.

free jason bourgeois

by larry on Apr 29, 2008 10:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

eh

I was pretty harsh on Ozzie last year, I’ll give him a pass on this. Dese guy, sometimes he can’t help himself. But if he ever asks Swisher to bunt again…

"The little things are always in my mind," he said. "I always like to move the guy over, I like to bunt."

by ChicagoPete on Apr 29, 2008 10:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

you're losing that killer instinct, pete

free jason bourgeois

by larry on Apr 29, 2008 10:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm stockpiling all my venom for OCab

"The little things are always in my mind," he said. "I always like to move the guy over, I like to bunt."

by ChicagoPete on Apr 29, 2008 10:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

You and me both.

by Grinder in Training on Apr 29, 2008 12:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

The sad thing is

Anderson had a good day at the plate otherwise: 2 BBs and a hit. That’s a nice day from backup CF with a good glove.

by hitlesswonder on Apr 29, 2008 10:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

that's actually a skill of his

dude, that was totally not swish you saw on rush street last night. swish was at home playing xbox.

by colintj on Apr 29, 2008 12:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

My guess

Probably because when it fails, the manager looks stupid.

Never trust a big butt and a smile.
Sox Machine

by Sox Machine on Apr 29, 2008 9:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

No way

that sqeeze should have been on. As much as I have wondered why we never sqeeze I did not like that decision. These guys have to show they can put a bunt down with minimal pressure before we throw them into a situation like that. Right idea…. wrong player to try it with.

by Where Triples Go to Die on Apr 29, 2008 8:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yes!

Player without the experience or bat control and field conditions that were terrible, infield and outfield in, only 1 out, and 1 strike on the batter… just bad managing

by Brush Back on Apr 29, 2008 9:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Fear of success

I dont know. I am begininng to believe for some folks there is actually some fear that there is something to root for this year.

Colintj I think you did a good job of explaining why exactly BA is not the concern and should turn around. I see in yesterday’s thread SSH made a point to me that opposite was true and referenced yesterday’s game as proof. Lol. So I guess the Sox’s
.295/.390/.498 line with RISP is irrelevant huh?

I see someone complaining about Swisher, after 25 games.

(Insert name) sucks and shouldn’t be allowed near 35th Shields.

Ozzie sucks, KW sucks, Masset sucks, Owens sucks for waking up and thinking he should be here (I agree), Cubs suck, Dotel suck, Jenks sucks vs Baltimore, Anderson sucks and Uribe sucks. Miss anyone? Oh yeah Crede sucks-rules then sucks again and Fields sucks for not fielding better and striking out too much.

Look after all accouts and metrics (except BA SSH) the Sox are a good team and have slightly underperformed their results so far this season.

Are the Sox a .500 team? No.

They are a better than .500 team.

by Tdogg on Apr 29, 2008 8:06 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Tdogg sucks and shouldn't be allowed near 35th Shields.

free jason bourgeois

by larry on Apr 29, 2008 9:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

lol

but i agree with him

by Where Triples Go to Die on Apr 29, 2008 10:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Lol

So do lawyers.

by Tdogg on Apr 29, 2008 10:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

There should be a Suck "power rankings"

Where we can measure the undulating levels of hatred towards certain players. Such as:

Uribe – up
Dye – down
Floyd – down
Dotel – up
Masset – up (with a bullet! Wait until Thursday morning!)

Mosi Tatupu! Mosi Tatupu!

by Nordhagen on Apr 29, 2008 9:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hmmmm

This actually may be a very good idea. We can then centralize the hate in one nice spot.

by Tdogg on Apr 29, 2008 10:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sure, but some of those sucks do suck

That being said, I fail to see how anyone can be pissed at the season so far. Danks and Quentin alone make me happy. Plus Swisher has played a competent CF…if he can continue to do that for another year or 2 that would be huge for the Sox.

by hitlesswonder on Apr 29, 2008 10:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Guillen re offense: "''We stunk today. I'm tired of having the offense look like that.......We have to give the pitchers some room to relax,'' he said.

Not really a problem, yet. But last year the starters went to the mound thinking they had to be perfect because of no support. Didn’t work out so well.

Pitching and defense.

by ballyb on Apr 29, 2008 8:52 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Where is the Fire Greg Walker site?

What is the perfect storm excuse this season? I’m looking at the back of the baseball cards – this is the start of season 2.5 that I’m seeing stats that are not looking too impressive (or average for that matter)

Thank gosh for Q!

by Brush Back on Apr 29, 2008 9:12 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

yup, it sure sucks having an above average offense. walker's responsible.

free jason bourgeois

by larry on Apr 29, 2008 9:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

But we got no speed

We need to steal more.

(just kidding)

"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."

by BobbySouthSide on Apr 29, 2008 9:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

The time to get worried was the day Ozzie came out and said,

“The little things are always in my mind,” he said. “I always like to move the guy over, I like to bunt.”

He couldn’t help himself and had to get the Ozzieball rolling again, his ego got in the way.

"The little things are always in my mind," he said. "I always like to move the guy over, I like to bunt."

by ChicagoPete on Apr 29, 2008 9:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

i think he was just cold.

free jason bourgeois

by larry on Apr 29, 2008 9:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Nothing

Wrong with moving a guy over on a hit and run – but, it hasn’t worked well this season so far. Nothing wrong with bunting a guy over if you have players that can bunt – we do not (maybe Cabrera?).

Ozzie wants the Sox to emulate the Piranahs of Minnesota…and that isn’t going to happen with this team. We have station to station guys.

"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."

by BobbySouthSide on Apr 29, 2008 10:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Above average Offense!

How long do you anticipate getting runs in like they have if guys don’t hit. I know average is often over-rated, however I now think you’re going to the other extreme. Starting pitching is carrying this team – that and a couple new guys with some plate disipline that know how to get on base – though one of them is now struggling in regards to hits. Yesterday (and a few other games) should have been blow out victories if we could just get some hits (hence improved averages). We are winning by getting by right now, unless this changes I can’t see it carrying through the end of the season. (Though I hope I’m wrong)

by Brush Back on Apr 29, 2008 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

The Sox are 4th in the AL in runs scored.....

by hitlesswonder on Apr 29, 2008 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

No to quibble but going into yesterday the Sox

avg 5.2 runs again the top or close to the top in the AL. Uh, that does contribute to wins

by Tdogg on Apr 29, 2008 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

the world's most expensive middle reliever

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/baseball/mlb/04/28/bc.bbn.giants.zito.ap/index.html

good job, brian.

free jason bourgeois

by larry on Apr 29, 2008 10:20 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

THAT SUCKS

I used to love Zito…. what happend to that feared trio of hudson, mulder, and zito??

by Where Triples Go to Die on Apr 29, 2008 11:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

one is still good, one is broken, and one lost it.

that’s the way pitchers go.

free jason bourgeois

by larry on Apr 29, 2008 11:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

A .500 team?

Defense never slumps does it? After this much of the season we should have a pretty good idea of what kind of defensive team we have. With all of Crede’s spectacular plays you might think we’re better than we are, but it looks firmly middle of the pack based on DER (the amount of balls turned into outs as a % of total balls put into play). With an older ballclub, I don’t see the ranking improving much, it’ll probably deteriorate as the older guys play through nagging injuries. What I find interesting is that the surprise teams in the AL this year – BALT, TB, OAK, are 1-2-3 in DER:

"The little things are always in my mind," he said. "I always like to move the guy over, I like to bunt."

by ChicagoPete on Apr 29, 2008 10:25 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Again misleading.

by Tdogg on Apr 29, 2008 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

What's misleading

I think we have a middle of the pack defense.

LF – Average
CF – Average
RF – JD so far Average, will probably be below the rest of the year
3B – Above Average
SS – Average
2B – Above Average
1B – Below Average
C – Below Average

DER puts us squarely in the middle of the pack, which I think is just about right.

"The little things are always in my mind," he said. "I always like to move the guy over, I like to bunt."

by ChicagoPete on Apr 29, 2008 10:31 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

uh, yeah

if either of those teams remain much above .72, that will be amazing. like, once in a decade type numbers. defense ain’t quite as consistent as pete seems to think it is, certainly not with sample sizes that are as small as a month. tdogg has already noted below how variable it’s been for the sox so far.

and being above .695-.700 or so is an above average defense over a full season.

free jason bourgeois

by larry on Apr 29, 2008 10:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sorry cut off

Misleading because their def eff is actually on the way up. A week and half to 2 weeks ago it was .690. Not saying that they will continue to improve or not but you cant just throw out the statement based on “today’s” ranking because it has already changed in less than 2 weeks.

by Tdogg on Apr 29, 2008 10:34 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Well whatever, I think middle of the pack sounds about right

What I would worry about is what this means for the pitching. The pitching has been very good so far because they’ve kept the ball in the park during a cold April. When the ball starts carrying the HR rates will probably regress to the mean and the ERA will start rising. We don’t have a high K staff, so this defense is not going to bail them of much trouble.

I think average pitching sounds about right, IMO it’s been smoke and mirrors so far with the low starters ERA.

The question is – is this offense good enough to carry this team into the playoffs? Mebbe – this Quentin dude is pretty fucking good, he’s been a huge wild card. If the old guys stay healthy this team should score a LOT of runs when the weather warms up and the ball starts carrying.

"The little things are always in my mind," he said. "I always like to move the guy over, I like to bunt."

by ChicagoPete on Apr 29, 2008 10:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

this team is all-around about average

assuming the regulars stay healthy. if not, well, things could get fugly.

free jason bourgeois

by larry on Apr 29, 2008 10:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I like this offense

If Ozzie can keep his hands of the levers I think they’ll score a lot of runs this summer.

"The little things are always in my mind," he said. "I always like to move the guy over, I like to bunt."

by ChicagoPete on Apr 29, 2008 10:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I actually...

like the starting pitching, quite a bit.

Even though it’s the same cast of characters as last year, I have a lot more confidence that the starters will keep the Sox in the game until the late innings.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Apr 29, 2008 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

john danks will do that

free jason bourgeois

by larry on Apr 29, 2008 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Starting Pitching

of course was a problem last year. But, the bullpen was horrendous and the bats were silent. The last week has pointed to the bullpen costing us or almost costing us games and the offense sputtering again.

I worry that we are trending towards 2007 all over again.

"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."

by BobbySouthSide on Apr 29, 2008 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

It's not 2007

Unless a bunch of injuries hit. The worry is more like the Sox are trending to be a .500. Which is probably about right.

by hitlesswonder on Apr 29, 2008 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well

If that is about right, then why worry?

"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."

by BobbySouthSide on Apr 29, 2008 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

This bullpen is worrisome

Jenks – is Jenks, but velocity down. But his velocity did the same last year so he’ll be a stud again most likely.

Thornton – what’s his problem?
Boone – uh hello, what happened?
Dotel – yeesh, c’mon buddy
Linebrink – lots of HR’s lately, not good

Masset – uh, no
Wasserman – too early to tell

"The little things are always in my mind," he said. "I always like to move the guy over, I like to bunt."

by ChicagoPete on Apr 29, 2008 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Thornton & Dotel

worry me. I think the others will be okay, and Masset always worries me – so I would include him in this, because he is what he is, garbage.

Dotel needs his fastball to light up again and that hasn’t happened.

"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."

by BobbySouthSide on Apr 29, 2008 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Unconvinced

I’m venturing into stathead territory here but I think the effect of having some abysmal players in the lineup drags down the maximum production significantly. When the Sox have even 2 of Uribe,Anderson, Ramirez, and Hall in the lineup it seems like a big hit to production. 3 of them together and you have 2007.

I think the Sox could have an above average lineup if as larry says, Crede, Dye, and Thome stay healthy and the Sox manage to somehow fill 2B with a non-sinkhole offensively (that could just mean a player they currently have playing above their head).

by hitlesswonder on Apr 29, 2008 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

All that is to say...

I think in the current configuration the Sox have an average offense.

by hitlesswonder on Apr 29, 2008 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Lots of big "if's"

If you can keep all of these guys out there every day then you have a really good offense. The problem is that there’s too many old, injury prone guys and there’s a big dropoff when they’re out (JD down, BA or Alexei in). And Ozzie can’t march these guys out there every single day or else you just increase the odds that they will get injured.

We’d need some really good luck to have the “A” lineup out there for the full season. If we do, it’s an above average offense. So right now I’ll stay optimistic, and I’ll save the pessimism for when the first stud goes on the 15-day DL.

"The little things are always in my mind," he said. "I always like to move the guy over, I like to bunt."

by ChicagoPete on Apr 29, 2008 11:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

One (short-term) option at 2B...

that hasn’t been discussed much is Mike Rouse (currently batting .293/.364/.466 in Charlotte. He performed poorly during a cup of coffee with the Indians last year, but his minor-league numbers have always been pretty solid.

It’s becoming increasingly clear that Alexei Ramirez, while obviously talented, isn’t ready to play at the major-league level yet. If the Sox aren’t happy with Uribe, they need to find someone else.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Apr 29, 2008 11:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

the sox will bide their time on uribe

until at least the end of june. richar will be available by then.

ramirez has now blown his second opportunity at seizing a starting position. unless the sox envision him as a utility player going forward, which would be a mistake, he needs to get down to charlotte pronto. rouse is a AAA lifer so i’d rather see if bourgeois can do anything, especially since he brings a bit more positional versatility and speed to the table (i.e., can pinch run, too).

free jason bourgeois

by larry on Apr 29, 2008 11:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree

Unless there is some significant injury taking a big bat out of the lineup long term, I’d rather wait for Richar. I see the point of when 3 below avg hitters are in the lineup but that shoudnt be often.

by Tdogg on Apr 29, 2008 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ideally...

the Sox would cut bait with Ozuna and put Bourgeois in his role, but that’ll never happen. I was just trying to think of a potential short-term starting 2B is the Sox aren’t happy with Uribe. Ramirez clearly isn’t the answer.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Apr 29, 2008 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

no one is the answer

until richar returns. maybe not even then. presently, they’re all about equally as bad, whether they’re in the majors or the minors.

free jason bourgeois

by larry on Apr 29, 2008 11:15 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Can we get

Julio Cruz back?! Awwww the memories.

"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."

by BobbySouthSide on Apr 29, 2008 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Two possible major league options...

It sounds like Ryan Freel could be had from the Reds for not much (Shelby?). And if SD keeps tanking, Iguchi would be available at some point and the Sox could trade Dubee for him….

by hitlesswonder on Apr 29, 2008 11:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

but then dubee would become a fantastic bullpen arm

free jason bourgeois

by larry on Apr 29, 2008 11:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ryan Freel...

is not really an upgrade at this point. He would have been nice to have three years ago, but right now, the Sox already have Jason Bourgeois if that’s what they’re looking for.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Apr 29, 2008 11:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

hmmm

those injury problems i think were and may still be what’s ailing him. could be worth a flyer; not sure the sox are the team for it, though.

free jason bourgeois

by larry on Apr 29, 2008 11:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

and since he can't hit lefties (iirc), he'd fit right in here.

free jason bourgeois

by larry on Apr 29, 2008 11:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

the choice is easy.

freel is a grinder. a chicago-tough grinder. i’ll take that over a cowardly frenchman any day. freel will run into walls and over catchers. can we really expect a frenchy to lean into one or slide high and hard to break up a double play?

Repeat after me: reading comprehension, even a little bit of thought before posting, and basic research are not signs of weakness.

by Toonderstrook on Apr 29, 2008 11:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm all for giving the Frenchman a shot first

But I think Freel could post his career .720ish OPS which would be a big improvement over what the Sox have right now (I don’t know about the glove though). I think if Freel is essentially free, he’d be worth acquiring.

by hitlesswonder on Apr 29, 2008 12:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

He's a pretty mediocre fielder...

from everything I’ve read, although he can play multiple positions (think Pablo Ozuna if Ozuna could play center and hit a little bit).

Freel’s biggest asset is his versatility, and his biggest drawback is injuries. Both things point to him being a utility player.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Apr 29, 2008 12:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

CAN JERRY OWENS

PLAY 2ND? =)

by Where Triples Go to Die on Apr 29, 2008 11:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Smoke and mirrors huh?

Javy Vasquez era 3.72 FIP era 2.45
Joh Danks era 3.0 FIP era 2.9
Jose Con era 4.26- FIP era 3.98
Gavin Floyd era 2.84- FP era 4.95
Mark B era 5.97- FIP 4.39

by Tdogg on Apr 29, 2008 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Correction

Jose era 3.98 FIP 4.05.

by Tdogg on Apr 29, 2008 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yes, smoke and mirrors

You really think that’s how things will be by end of season?

"The little things are always in my mind," he said. "I always like to move the guy over, I like to bunt."

by ChicagoPete on Apr 29, 2008 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I dont know Pete

But we can only go with what the numbers (metrics) show us. Its not smoke and mirrors and there are not these great adverse indicators right now to expect a drastic increase in ERA (Besides Floyd). Its all just a hunch from you right now. I get that what is going on doesnt jive with your pre season predictions but that is just the way it is for the moment.

by Tdogg on Apr 29, 2008 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

So your pitching numbers are the basis for realistic projections, but the DER's are not?

At least try to stay consistent within the same thread.

I think our defense is middle of the pack based on observation, and the stats bear it out. The stats say our pitching is top 3, and my eyes say that’s smoke and mirrors. To each his own.

Again, eyeball rankings:

Javy is Javy, Above Average
Danks – Has chance to be Above Average
Floyd – Average
Contreras – Below Average, but he’s an acceptable #5
MB – he’s the big wild card right now. But this is what he’s always been.

"The little things are always in my mind," he said. "I always like to move the guy over, I like to bunt."

by ChicagoPete on Apr 29, 2008 11:15 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Pete what are you talking about?

I said the indicators that project out. DER is configured into that.I could care less about your eyes cuz frankly its not a good indicator of anything. I care about defense, walks, ks, ratios, flyout, popups, lineouts FIP etc. I think thats pretty consistent.

by Tdogg on Apr 29, 2008 11:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

if floyd is average, that would be amazing. and would likely mean this was an 85 win team.

free jason bourgeois

by larry on Apr 29, 2008 11:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Since he got pissed by my smoke and mirrors comment, I'm giving him him the benefit of the doubt on Floyd

"The little things are always in my mind," he said. "I always like to move the guy over, I like to bunt."

by ChicagoPete on Apr 29, 2008 11:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Lol pissed?

Actually its hilarious to me that you somehow tried to call me out last week on the use of statistics when its clear to me that many times you either misuse or ignore them your self because of your “eyes”.

You talk loud and post frequently but that doesn’t magically make you “right”.

by Tdogg on Apr 29, 2008 11:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Whatever dude

I’m not into arguing just for the sake of arguing. Have at it with larry if that’s what you’re itching for.

"The little things are always in my mind," he said. "I always like to move the guy over, I like to bunt."

by ChicagoPete on Apr 29, 2008 11:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Larry

is always in for an argument!

"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."

by BobbySouthSide on Apr 29, 2008 11:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

yeah

i don’t see this as a team that will put up a 3.77 ERA (i.e., lead the AL in pitching). even throwing a half run on that ERA and it would still be a very, very good pitching staff.

free jason bourgeois

by larry on Apr 29, 2008 11:02 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

So who else in the

AL would you say has a staff comparable or better than ours Larry? TB?

by Where Triples Go to Die on Apr 29, 2008 11:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Still early but I may have

To eat serious crow on the DEVIL rays.

by Tdogg on Apr 29, 2008 11:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

i hear chianti is nice

to drink while watching people eat crow.

free jason bourgeois

by larry on Apr 29, 2008 11:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

not yet!

by Tdogg on Apr 29, 2008 11:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

66 more

free jason bourgeois

by larry on Apr 29, 2008 11:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Or brains, with some fava beans.

I took the "under".

by winningugly on Apr 29, 2008 12:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

TB potentially

though they’re a bit of a wild card due to age and their current injury issues. not to mention the bullpen.

outside of that, throw in the indians, red sox, jays. obviously we’ll know more in a couple months; staffs can be affected greatly by injury or surprise breakouts/breakdowns.

free jason bourgeois

by larry on Apr 29, 2008 11:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

TRUE

IM NOT SURE I WOULD INCLUDE THE INDIANS ON THAT LIST. CARMONA GOT HIS MONEY… CC DIDNT GET HIS… I SMELL JELOUSY AND A LOUSY YEAR.

by Where Triples Go to Die on Apr 30, 2008 10:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

i doubt cc is jealous of the $15 million carmona is getting for four years of work

cc wants more than that for one.

4/29/08: the ginger ninja strikes again

by larry on Apr 30, 2008 10:31 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

He has those options that could

potentially make his deal worth 43 mil

by Where Triples Go to Die on Apr 30, 2008 10:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

no, the indians have those options

4/29/08: the ginger ninja strikes again

by larry on Apr 30, 2008 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Regardless

Carmona got an extension done while CC has to wait for his. He might have some unforseen injury or regression and get screwed on his long term deal. Back to the point, the Indians do not have starting pitching comparable to the Sox thus far. Cliff Lee has been their best starter… how long is that going to last? CC may never recover from the “choker” lable he was given after the ALCS. Carmona may have been a 1 hit wonder. They have alot of question marks my friend. So far, our starting rotation is everything I expected it to be if not a little better. I knew Danks and Floyd would take the next step and they have. I know, it is still very early to be proclaiming myself king of predictions.

by Where Triples Go to Die on Apr 30, 2008 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

By the way...

Lance Broadway’s current line in today’s (ongoing) start against Norfolk -

5 IP, 3 H, 1 R, 0 BB, 3 K.

The only Tides run was a solo homer by Alex Cintron(!)

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Apr 29, 2008 11:17 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Final line...

for Broadway today -

8 IP, 5 H, 1 R, 0 BB, 6 K.

His current ERA stands at 1.25. Very nice.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Apr 29, 2008 12:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Broadway

he’s probably about ‘done’ with AAA. He should probably have Masset’s spot, as he’s actually had some level of success both in AAA and in the big leagues (albeit in just one start). At the very worst the Sox seem to have two pretty decent options in-case one of the big league starters fails—both Egbert and Broadway are non-terrible 6th and 7th options.

by CWSKeith on Apr 29, 2008 12:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

about done?

he is and was done with it. broadway is what he is. bobbysouthside doesn’t believe me but what you see with lance is what you’re going to get.

free jason bourgeois

by larry on Apr 29, 2008 12:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

which seems pretty serviceable, no?

Ahh, Good times...

by MarketMaker on Apr 29, 2008 12:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

sure

with egbert in flux right now due to his injury setback, he’d be the guy i’d want in the pen instead of masset. of course, it’s difficult to quibble with what nicky has done so far, no matter whether one believes it will continue or not.

free jason bourgeois

by larry on Apr 29, 2008 12:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Bottom line

The Sox aren’t getting it done offensively.
I don’t care WHAT stats say, I don’t care about any excuses, I don’t care, I don’t care, I don’t F’in care.
OBP don’t mean SHIT if those runners don’t score.
And NO stats mean shit if they don’t result in WINS.
You CAN have great stats and still not make the playoffs.

The AL central is trying it’s best to GIVE it to the Sox, and the Sox can’t even take advantage….so much that even in a tie game that SHOULD HAVE been won but wasn’t, they still gained a half game in the standings.

Imagine where the Sox would be they would have just won just a few more of the games they should have already…
I lost count, but I think I heard something like SIXTEEN runners LOB yesterday?
And if Ozzie would have just let the natural momentum continue instead of that last-minute-bunt-squeeze-debacle-that-the-O’s-saw-coming-a-mile-away, the Sox likely would have salvaged that horrific offensive cluster F—- of a game.

Not to mention – Vasquez was dialed in – and I can pretty much guarantee you that he DIDN’T want to come out after all that work.
And then when Ozzie opts for Jenks – who has NOT done well against the O’s, I’m sure it just added fuel to Javy’s fire when Jenks quickly blew the save.
Anyone with feelings at all would be pissed and justifiably so.

And these are just a few of the things that, over the course of a season, can erode away any gaining momentum and turn into severe negative mojo in a clubhouse and ruin what COULD and SHOULD have been a good season.

Hopefully, Ozzie pulls his head out of his arse in a big hurry – or this good team that has great potential will once again fizzle like the last two UGLY seasons.

by swishit on Apr 29, 2008 11:55 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

that post is too long. i don't F'in care.

free jason bourgeois

by larry on Apr 29, 2008 11:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

the analysis is right up your alley, though. worth a read.

Repeat after me: reading comprehension, even a little bit of thought before posting, and basic research are not signs of weakness.

by Toonderstrook on Apr 29, 2008 11:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

tasty bait, i take it?

free jason bourgeois

by larry on Apr 29, 2008 12:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

maybe even too tasty.

Repeat after me: reading comprehension, even a little bit of thought before posting, and basic research are not signs of weakness.

by Toonderstrook on Apr 29, 2008 12:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

The day was e'fn too long

And after a day like yesterday – swishit at least sums up how I felt – correct or in-correct stats – in all! (I think I have now hit all but the NYY game with rain and rain delays)

by Brush Back on Apr 29, 2008 12:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

tl;dr

is what you mean

dude, that was totally not swish you saw on rush street last night. swish was at home playing xbox.

by colintj on Apr 29, 2008 12:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Okay Ill bite.

Should they avg 6.2 runs a game?

Has there been a string of shut outs I somehow missed?

Runs scored since last shut out by Tampa 6,5,4,7,1,6,6,3.

A much bigger problem would be if they were not getting on base at all. Which in 07, we were all too familar with.

by Tdogg on Apr 29, 2008 12:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

but you had to resort to pesky numbers to do it!

Repeat after me: reading comprehension, even a little bit of thought before posting, and basic research are not signs of weakness.

by Toonderstrook on Apr 29, 2008 12:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

that don't mean shit unless you win

wait, what’s that you say? the sox have a .571 winning percentage in those games? well, i don’t care WHAT the win-loss column says. they’re not getting it DONE. you CAN have a great win-loss record and still not make the playoffs.

free jason bourgeois

by larry on Apr 29, 2008 12:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Wins ain't nothing but a number

by hitlesswonder on Apr 29, 2008 12:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

like age. or so say roger clemens and mindy mccready.

Repeat after me: reading comprehension, even a little bit of thought before posting, and basic research are not signs of weakness.

by Toonderstrook on Apr 29, 2008 12:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I didnt realize Roger has a little

R Kelly in him!

by Tdogg on Apr 29, 2008 12:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

i say good work roger! you're no mark chmura, but you're starting to grow on me.

Ahh, Good times...

by MarketMaker on Apr 29, 2008 12:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

He gave her a good ole rogering he did!

"The little things are always in my mind," he said. "I always like to move the guy over, I like to bunt."

by ChicagoPete on Apr 29, 2008 1:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

i always thought the rocket was a run-of-the-mill jerk and your typical prick,

but it’s starting to look like he’s that rare breed of cocksucker that deserves to be appreciated. like i said before, he is really starting to grow on me, but i root for the bad guy. i find them more interesting, but that’s just me.

Ahh, Good times...

by MarketMaker on Apr 29, 2008 1:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

and it's not like it was a 15yr old BOY, so he's not like gay or anything

"The little things are always in my mind," he said. "I always like to move the guy over, I like to bunt."

by ChicagoPete on Apr 29, 2008 1:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

yes, i do hate gays

Ahh, Good times...

by MarketMaker on Apr 29, 2008 1:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

i find it interesting...

when people say they don’t care about stats or numbers but then also rail about a number that doesn’t mean much when taken out of context. for instance, yes, the white sox left 14 men on base yesterday. but of those 14 runners left on, 10 didn’t even reach base until there were already two outs in the inning. should they have scored more in the 7th and the winning run in the 10th? probably. but that’s an entirely different story.

Repeat after me: reading comprehension, even a little bit of thought before posting, and basic research are not signs of weakness.

by Toonderstrook on Apr 29, 2008 12:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

statistics are for losers- scotty bowman

When the Sox won the WS in 05, I knew exactly what Bowman meant.

by ruffster on Apr 29, 2008 12:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

what about now?

Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos.

by rhythm on Apr 29, 2008 2:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Clarification please.

How would it work when this game is replayed in August, considering these rosters could potentially be significantly different?

There are several players on both teams that could likely not be a part of the team’s roster as a result of a trade (e.g. Millar, Crede) as well as several players that could be potentially be injured/demoted that were playing (and/or available on the bench) at the time the game was called.

If anyone knows off the top of their head, that would be great.

by krushcuts on Apr 29, 2008 11:55 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Only those players on the roster at the time

Are eligible to play. That is what was reported yesterday MLB/XM

by Tdogg on Apr 29, 2008 11:59 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

i don't think that's necessarily accurate

i think we all could obviously envision a scenario where a team would have no/not enough pitchers available. there is the potential for “replacements”, though the rules on that are too difficult for me to find.

free jason bourgeois

by larry on Apr 29, 2008 12:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

stumped?

no way

"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."

by BobbySouthSide on Apr 29, 2008 12:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I would imagine...

that players already removed from the game (like Alexei Ramirez and Bobby Jenks) would be ineligible to play, but anyone else legally on the roster would be. But that could be wrong.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Apr 29, 2008 12:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

nope, you'd be right

it’s rule 4.12 if anyone really does care.

free jason bourgeois

by larry on Apr 29, 2008 12:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Spelled out.

The lineup and batting order of both teams shall be exactly the same as the lineup and batting order at the moment of suspension, subject to the rules governing substitution. Any player may be replaced by a player who had not been in the game prior to the suspension. No player removed before the suspension may be returned to the lineup. A player who was not with the club when the game was suspended may be used as a substitute, even if he has taken the place of a player no longer with the club who would not have been eligible because he had been removed from the lineup before the game was suspended. If immediately prior to the call of a suspended game, a substitute pitcher has been announced but has not retired the side or pitched until the batter becomes a baserunner, such pitcher, when the suspended game is later resumed may, but is not required to start the resumed portion of the game. However, if he does not start he will be considered as having been substituted for and may not be used in that game.

by Tdogg on Apr 29, 2008 12:15 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Cool

Thanks man.

by krushcuts on Apr 29, 2008 12:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

(Monday) is the type of game that good teams that want to go to the playoffs...

suspend indefinitely?

Ahh, Good times...

by MarketMaker on Apr 29, 2008 12:49 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

yeah, it's the smart move

the orioles will have stopped playing well by then and will be more interested in getting a high draft pick than winning games.

free jason bourgeois

by larry on Apr 29, 2008 12:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

here i thought ozzie was managing the game like an idiot,

when in fact, he was taking strategery to an as of yet unseen level. brilliant!

Ahh, Good times...

by MarketMaker on Apr 29, 2008 1:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

And most probably Brian Roberts will not be an Oriole any more.

Pitching and defense.

by ballyb on Apr 29, 2008 1:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

if he's on the sox then he could be on both sides of the box score!

Ahh, Good times...

by MarketMaker on Apr 29, 2008 1:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Poreda and Shelby for Roberts?

then Ozzie would have his speed at the top of the lineup.

dude, that was totally not swish you saw on rush street last night. swish was at home playing xbox.

by colintj on Apr 29, 2008 1:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

would he then bat swish 2 or would oc's "bat handling" keep him at 2?

Ahh, Good times...

by MarketMaker on Apr 29, 2008 1:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I suppose that depends on whose bat he is handling

Ozzie’s bat = OC in the 2 hole!

Sorry, but I just couldn’t resist.

Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos.

by rhythm on Apr 29, 2008 2:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

ba-zing!

Ahh, Good times...

by MarketMaker on Apr 29, 2008 3:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Bonser pitching tonight, 1 - 4, 4.34 ERA.

In games he’s started, the Twins have scored 1, 1, 2, 3, 0 runs.

What’s swishit got to say about that!!!!!

Pitching and defense.

by ballyb on Apr 29, 2008 1:48 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

boof's feelings must be really hurt.

Repeat after me: reading comprehension, even a little bit of thought before posting, and basic research are not signs of weakness.

by Toonderstrook on Apr 29, 2008 1:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

lots of negative clubhouse mojo

free jason bourgeois

by larry on Apr 29, 2008 2:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

11 months ago,

we went to Minneapolis and lost 3 straight, the last which we were up 6 or 7 – 0 and self destructed.

THAT was the beginning of the end of the 2007 season.

Pitching and defense.

by ballyb on Apr 29, 2008 1:59 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I disagree

I would say that the beginning of the end was when ErstadL was signed to be a back up and ended up as the CF and Podsednik was counted on to stay healthy and be the spark plug at the top of the line up.

Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos.

by rhythm on Apr 29, 2008 2:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hope sprung eternal until that point.

Pitching and defense.

by ballyb on Apr 29, 2008 2:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm voting for Jesse...

by SSH2005 on Apr 29, 2008 2:43 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

time for some ballot-stuffing

swish totally looks like he just got busted for marijuana possession and running from the cops wearing just a wife-beater.

free jason bourgeois

by larry on Apr 29, 2008 3:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

"busted for marijuana possession"

after leaving Jerry Owens place where they toked up.

Pitching and defense.

by ballyb on Apr 29, 2008 3:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

not that there's anything wrong with that

but are you implying swish and jerry are gay?

free jason bourgeois

by larry on Apr 29, 2008 3:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not at all, just noting the shit eating grin in Jerry's mugshot.

Pitching and defense.

by ballyb on Apr 29, 2008 3:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

no, not at all

“shit eating”.

free jason bourgeois

by larry on Apr 29, 2008 3:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

i can actually see uribe getting fatter in that picture!

Ahh, Good times...

by MarketMaker on Apr 29, 2008 3:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I aprticularly enjoy the symmetry of the pictures:

2 pair of white guys, a pair of dark guys, a pair of coffee-colored guys, and the Peoria Pounder, future HOF’er who’s out there in the hinterlands, chopping wood. Draw a horizontal line and it’s a mirror image.

I took the "under".

by winningugly on Apr 29, 2008 5:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

particularly

Not even drinking yet…

I took the "under".

by winningugly on Apr 29, 2008 6:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yesterday's Game

I agree the White Sox got a raw deal. Home team usually wins majority of extra inning games.

by justin3007 on Apr 29, 2008 2:44 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

they'll still be the home team when they start play again

free jason bourgeois

by larry on Apr 29, 2008 3:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

will they switch uniforms?

Ahh, Good times...

by MarketMaker on Apr 29, 2008 3:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

you think these pampered stars will play more than one game in the same uniform?

these ain’t the black sox, buddy. they’ve got people who handle this stuff.

free jason bourgeois

by larry on Apr 29, 2008 3:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

i meant home and away

Ahh, Good times...

by MarketMaker on Apr 29, 2008 3:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

i know.

league rules stipulate home team wears their home uniform(s).

free jason bourgeois

by larry on Apr 29, 2008 3:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

This was expected...

Orioles designated RHP Greg Aquino for assignment.
Aquino, the favorite to close for the Orioles before George Sherrill arrived, had a 14.21 ERA in six appearances this season.

by SSH2005 on Apr 29, 2008 4:48 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Lineups for tonight -- Dye is back...

“Resumption date, Tuesday’s lineups”
By Mark Gonzales – 3:27 p.m.

The resumption date for Monday’s suspended White Sox game with Baltimore is Aug. 25 at Baltimore’s Oriole Park. More details (starting time, telecast holder) will be announced later.

Right fielder Jermaine Dye is back Tuesday against the Twins after missing four games because of a groin strain.

Here are Tuesday night’s lineups:

White Sox
Swisher cf
Cabrera ss
Thome dh
Konerko 1b
Dye rf
Pierzynski c
Quentin lf
Crede 3b
Uribe 2b
Floyd p

Minnesota
Gomez cf
Harris 2b
Mauer c
Morneau 1b
Cuddyer rf
Kubel dh
Young lf
Lamb 3b
Punto ss
Bonser p