Thome; Forever an Indian?
Currently, Jim Thome sits at 509 homeruns thus making him a member of the coveted 500 club. While there seems to be some debate as to whether or not this guarantees a player a spot in Cooperstown, one can at least assume he stands a chance of making it.
Having said that, Thome has received a less than warm reception every time he's stepped to the plate in Cleveland, the city he first broke in to the big leagues with in 1991.
For the sake of discussion, let's say Big Jim is honored in Cooperstown a few years down the line. Which team's hat does everyone think his bust will be wearing?
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Correct me if I'm wrong...
Doesn't a committee of some sort dictate which cap a player wears. I think they do take input from the player it isn't left up to the player to prevent shenanigans like Boggs wearing a Rays cap in the hall of fame.
If that is true, it's gotta be with and Indians hat.
-Jeeves Life in the Cell
by jeeves on Apr 3, 2008 1:57 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Hmm, you could be right.
Hadn't considered that. With that being said, I wonder how the fans in Cleveland will like that.
For the life of me I don't get this sense of betrayal they just can't let go of with Thomer.
I'll bring the awesome.
by Hazymania on Apr 3, 2008 2:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Inferiority complex
Him leaving was rubbing their Cleveland-ness right in their faces, that's tough to get over.
by ChicagoPete on Apr 3, 2008 7:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tribe fan here and I will start off by saying Thome was my favorite player of the 90s squads. I actually still root for the guy (unless your team is on the other side of course). I wouldn't boo him personally, but could care less if other Tribe fans do, that is their right.
What I really want to do is clear up a common misperception some Sox fans have. The majority of the comments I read are from Sox fans who say "well we didn't boo Frank when he came back into town", and thusly making the Tribe fans seem "bad".
First off, you cannot compare the two situations equally, because it more like an apples to oranges comparison.
First, the Thome situation:
What Sox fans don't realize was how hard his contract negotiations were. The front office originally approached him 2 years before his deal was up and tried to negotiate an extension. Thome decided he wanted to wait until he offseason to negotiate, no big deal, that happens all the time. They still couldn't come to an agreement in the offfseason however.
Then during his final season, the front office approached Thome and let them know since they were not competing for the playoffs, they wanted to know if he was going to try and work on the extension with them, otherwise they were going to try and trade him at the deadline for prospects. Since Thome had 10 and 5 rights, he told them he would not ok any deal the Tribe made. And his comment to the press at that time was the following, "They are going to have to tear this jersey off my back because I want to be an Indian for life." (note: that is not verbatim, it is from memory, but I know the jersey comment was to that effect).
So in the offseason, when the teams traded offers, they offered him a four year deal at X. He took that offer to Philly and they said, sure we'll give you five years at X+. He then came back to Cleveland and said, they are willing to do five years, will you match it? They said yes and threw in an option year. He then went back to Philly and they offered him a 6th year on the deal with an option. He then went back to Cleveland and asked them to match, they said no.
When Thome left Cleveland, he was still only 32 years old with a good 5-7 years of productivity left to play. And when he left to play in Philly, all the fans in Cleveland could remember was the "you're gonna have to rip the jersey off my back" comment. That is why the city of Cleveland feels betrayed, because he went for the $$/years instead of doing the loyalty thing he was preaching about for two years. Had he not said such things and just taken the $$ like Manny or Belle, I doubt he would get the boos he does now.
Now compare this to Frank:
When he left Chicago, he was entering his season as a 38 year old, not 32. He might have a season or two left to be semi-productive, not 5-7 years at the top of his game.
Not to mention he already had a contentious relationship with the front office that all of Chicago all knew about. So when he left, it was not a surprise, nor was it a big heartache.
So tell me now, if Frank had preached about wanting to be a career White Sox player, and had left your team in 2000 when he was 32 and at the top of his game for more $$ (but not much more than what you had offered), do you think he would still get this joyous reception every visit back to Chicago? And to top it off, let's say he was playing for the Tigers. Do you honestly think he would get that warm of a reception? I don't.
And finally, to the original poster, if Thome does make the Hall of Fame, he will go in as an Indian. He played 12 seasons there, then 3 in Philly. He is now in his 3rd with Chicago. Even if he plays five more years with your team (doubtful), that would make 8 in Chicago. He will still have more productive years as an Indian than as a White Sox player. Now if he had played those 3 years from Philly as a White Sox player, then it definitely would be a toss up.
by talonk on Apr 3, 2008 9:52 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
that's idiotic
get over it. i rather doubt (m)any indians fans wouldn't take more money elsewhere for their job, especially if their current employer looked like it was going to be in the shitter for a few years. this whole "loyalty" thing is cute but maybe fans should demand their organizations have it be a two-way street. oh, wait, fans would get pissed if their teams did that. this is reality, buddy. time to live in it.
the law of conservation of masset: no matter how much masset you use up, there is always masset in your system.
by larry on Apr 3, 2008 10:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Like I said, I had no problem with him leaving (I didn't want the big $$ on the payroll for that long). But the common fan who doesn't follow that stuff, all they see is Thome in the paper saying he wants to be Indian for life and then he takes the money and runs.
I don't fault him for it, but the way he played himself as lifetime Indian player in the press is why he gets booed. Plus I wanted to show why the Frank Thomas-Thome comparisons are not the same.
Sorry if I intruded.
by talonk on Apr 3, 2008 10:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
no intrusion
but the common fan is exactly the one who is hypocritical because they'd do the same thing. they like to style it as "they're making so much money, if i were making that much i wouldn't care if i got a little more elsewhere or another year." which is complete and utter bullshit.
the law of conservation of masset: no matter how much masset you use up, there is always masset in your system.
by larry on Apr 3, 2008 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey I understand where you're coming from. But do you honestly think Frank would have been cheered if he left when he was 32 for more $$ and then came back to your town with a division rival after portraying himself as the career White Sox guy? I don't. I bet he would have gotten booed like crazy. But maybe I'm wrong, I just don't think so.
by talonk on Apr 3, 2008 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i'm not singling out indians fans on this sort of stuff
any fan who does it is idiotic. so long as a player when he leaves doesn't rip into the team, the fans, teammates, so on there's no reason to boo when they leave for economic reasons. the indians didn't pony up.
the law of conservation of masset: no matter how much masset you use up, there is always masset in your system.
by larry on Apr 3, 2008 11:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
and of course the indians fans wouldn't be griping about the trade if, for instance,
ryan howard was there to take the reins at first rather than ben broussard.
161 White Sox wins on the year, 161 wins; take one down and pass it around, 160 White Sox wins on the year.
by Toonderstrook on Apr 3, 2008 3:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
sorry, not the trade, but thome leaving
161 White Sox wins on the year, 161 wins; take one down and pass it around, 160 White Sox wins on the year.
by Toonderstrook on Apr 3, 2008 3:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

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