Our Better Is Better Than The Tiger Bullpen
The Cheat is nowhere to be seen, so I figured I'd jump in with a recap of Saturday afternoon's game.
- Gavin Floyd came up with a performance that will be totally acceptable out of the fifth starter's role for the rest of the year. While not looking great, he didn't look totally horrible. 6 IP, 6 H, 3 ER is a performance that should be good enough to win most games. He got the lead late in the game and held it during his final inning. It seemed like Gavin occasionally ran into problems with two outs, but hopefully that will be something that disappears after getting comfortable.
- Is there anyone more fun to watch in the lineup right now that Carlos Quentin? He's taking a starting spot and running away with it. I'm not sure which brought more joy to watch, his RBI single in the sixth inning or his absolute bullet from left field to nail a jogging Edgar Renteria trying to return to first base. Bad news for Jerry Owens supporters.
- Dontrelle Willis couldn't find the plate with a plate-finding machine, and it finally cost him in the sixth inning. Nick Swisher picked up his third walk of the game (and his sixth in this last two games) to start off the action. He may be hitting .200 after five games, but the .478 on-base percentage sure looks sexy. Moreover, he hasn't looked totally overmatched in center.
- After looking like secondhand horse poo in Spring Training, Jermaine Dye has been locked in to start the year, picking up his second home run in the eighth inning for that all important insurance run.
- What's up with Orlando Cabrera in the field? He botched a cutoff throw early in the game that led to an early Tiger run, and he's just looked out of sorts at times. He's drawn some walks but hasn't looked much better at the plate either. Could we start seeing Juan Uribe and Alexei Ramirez starting at shortstop on occasion?
- Toby Hall sucks. Good signing...in theory.
- Boone Logan, Scott Linebrink, and Bobby Jenks. 3 IP, 0 R. Gave up three hits and Jenks was a little off in the ninth, but there's nothing to be worried about yet. Logan still looks good against lefties and Linebrink is still looking worth the money. Hard to say much after five games, but it's still a hell of a lot more encouraging to see them start out hot.
The Sox go for the sweep tomorrow night on ESPN2, as Mark Buehrle faces Justin Verlander on Sunday Night baseball. Smart money says that Mark won't be quite as bad as he was in Cleveland on Opening Day. We may even see Brian Anderson tomorrow as part of the Sunday Getaway Lineup®, since there are rumors around the Sox clubhouse that he does in fact exist.
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Great, start Anderson
against Verlander in his 1st major league game in 11 months.
If he wants to be the best, he has to hit against the best.
'08-to-date --- 1 triple to RF against the Sox.
by ballyb on Apr 5, 2008 10:06 PM CDT 0 recs
That's Why He's on the Team
To face tough lefties.
by CrossCyed on
Apr 5, 2008 10:11 PM CDT
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isn't verlander a righty?
Just because you are a character doesn't mean you have character.
by Toonderstrook on
Apr 5, 2008 11:19 PM CDT
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Is Brian Anderson related to Ric Flair?
WOOOOOOOOOO!!!
by SSH2005 on
Apr 5, 2008 10:25 PM CDT
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Good start
Good start to the season, at least from a fan's excitment level. This team might not compete for a playoff spot eventually, but at least they might provide some entertainment along the way.
Quentin is doing everything we all want: taking Owens' spot away and doing it in such a way that it helps the team win ballgames.now and in the future. The back of the rotation put together back to back solid outings and Dye seems to be turning back the clock.
Health is solid (christ, knock on wood) and Ozzie is actually fielding some decent lineups. The decision to hit Swisher leadoff is pleasantly surprising.
It's a bit disconcerting that it took an injury to Owens to make it happen, but at least it happened.
I really wish this team had some real backups though. Hall and Ozuna shouldn't be anywhere near a MLB diamond.
And how can I not mention the bullpen. In an extremely (and probalby misleading) sample size these guys have come in and nailed some close games down. Linebrink is looking like 4 million well spent, Boone Logan doesn't look like a gas can sitting next to Richard Pryor.
I really just wish Dye could move to LF and switch with Quentin. Quentin's arm and range are much better than Dye's at this point. It might save the Sox a few runs of the course of the season.
by madvillian on Apr 5, 2008 10:16 PM CDT 0 recs
Dye --> RF, probably save more than a few runs.
'08-to-date --- 1 triple to RF against the Sox.
by ballyb on
Apr 5, 2008 10:28 PM CDT
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Small sample stats.
After todays game, the Sox as a team are
#10 in MLB in BA - .260
#3 (tie) in MLB in OBP - .360
#1 in MLB in SLG - .490
#1 in MLB in OPS - .851
'08-to-date --- 1 triple to RF against the Sox.
by ballyb on Apr 5, 2008 10:26 PM CDT 0 recs
Somehow
I think I will get a kick out of this season reading all the folks who "knew" what was going to happen rationalize why it didnt.
The start is encouraging. The walking is very encouraging.
by Tdogg on Apr 5, 2008 11:00 PM CDT 0 recs
The injury to Owens
and Alexei looking less than ready would seem to be the reason for the Quentin opportunity, which meshes with Ozzie's statement (paraphrasing) that we have depth this year and if someone doesn't perform, they'll lose their job.
dude, that was totally not swish you saw on rush street last night. swish was at home playing xbox.
by colintj on
Apr 5, 2008 11:11 PM CDT
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Thats my point
I think most reasonable folks understood that the difference between this year and last was other options existed. And when the opportunity presented itself by injury or performance the better player would play. Or that Ozzie would be "capable of putting Swisher at the top of the lineup." The great thing is Swisher hasnt hit squat yet. He really hasnt even scored many runs. But he has extended pitchers and shown the team the way with more patience. Its obviously only 5 games in but in mind run scoring will not be a prblem this year.
by Tdogg on
Apr 5, 2008 11:20 PM CDT
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his OBP is like .480
it turns out the thing that doesn't slump is plate discipline.
dude, that was totally not swish you saw on rush street last night. swish was at home playing xbox.
by colintj on
Apr 5, 2008 11:22 PM CDT
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yea, damn swisher
What a bum, this guy, he only gets on base 48% of the time he goes up there. Jeez, score some more runs buddy.
I get your point, but when he's on base 48% of the time it's kinda like MORE MORE MORE the fault of the guys behind him then Swisher himself.
by madvillian on
Apr 5, 2008 11:45 PM CDT
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Slugging only .200, too.
'08-to-date --- 1 triple to RF against the Sox.
by ballyb on
Apr 6, 2008 7:07 AM CDT
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Thoughts and rebuttals
Floyd was unspectacular, but good enough to get the job done. He had only one poor sequence all game; the 4 straight balls to Jones after getting up on him 0-2. He just has to accept that he's gonna get hit a little bit, and some of those hits will leave the yard. As long as there aren't extra baserunners in the form of walks on the bases, he should keep the Sox in most games.
Swisher has been an absolute joy to watch. After his second at-bat, he had seen 1/3 of the pitches that Willis had throw, after his second he had seen about 1/4. On a day when Willis was terrible, many of the Sox hitters were willing to bail him out. Swisher's 3 walks were the Sox offense prior to Thome's double.
Cabrera is fine. He had a ball eat him up on opening day, and a ball take a weird hop on him (running between his legs) the other day. I haven't seen anything that would make me move him from the SS position. The relay today was one that needed all parts to be executed to absolute perfection to get Jones at home. Swisher made a good catch, a quick turn and throw, but Cabrera didn't have the ball on line. No big deal. Nobody's perfect.
Even when he's making outs, multiple outs, Quentin looks like he belongs. He has a plan at the plate. After getting ahead 2-0, Q took a HR cut fouling a ball straight back. Two pitches later, ahead 3-1, he crushed a low fastball that hooked just foul into the LF seats. On 3-2 he got a slider in exactly the same spot and GIDP'd. It was a poor result, but it was an at-bat that showed a major league approach at the plate.
Quentin's play, along with Owens' return being delayed "until at least next weekend", is quite possibly the best news we could have gotten this spring. It was a little over a month ago that I thought Owens had been handed the starting CF position without an open competition with Quentin, and that might have ended up being the case had Owens not strained his groin.
If the White Sox are going to be the championship team that the White Sox brain trust thinks they can be, one of the main reasons will be that Carlos Quentin and Josh Fields successfully made the leap to become very good offensive players. Jerry Owens at his very best might be an average center fielder, and as such, his presence as de facto leadoff hitter would seem to limit the teams playoff hopes versus a team with a fully-realized Carlos Quentin in the lineup.
Half of that statement has the opportunity to come together, which is better than we could have said a couple weeks ago, when both Fields and Quentin appeared to be buried.
A guy can't go out for a few beers, pizza, and some basketball without being declared "nowhere to be found" ... tough crowd.
AIM: SouthSideCheat
by The Cheat on Apr 5, 2008 11:00 PM CDT 0 recs
Pretty much money there Cheat
"many of the Sox hitters were willing to bail him out."
But I do quibble with that. He walked 7 in 5 innings, a huge number. 4 in 5 is still as many as Javy's crap outing had and was the primary reason for his suckfest. Really, the "many" you're referring to are the pop-a-holic 7-8-9 hitters. 1-6, I really really like our lineup right now. Get AJ back in there and Josh too and we're looking at a pretty dangerous lineup outside of whoever is playing 2nd. And we may even have an alternative there too. As far as far as the offense goes, things are looking up right now.
dude, that was totally not swish you saw on rush street last night. swish was at home playing xbox.
by colintj on
Apr 5, 2008 11:06 PM CDT
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Jeez
Thought you'd be happy with a recap up there....LOL
A quote from one of my friends...
"That throw from Quentin was about as close as I've come to turning gay."
He's fun to watch.
by CrossCyed on
Apr 5, 2008 11:09 PM CDT
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Holy crap, mlb.tv is really annoying to use now
So you have to use Silverlight it looks like (since I couldn't get the old one to load using OS X 10.5 and Firefox) and they took away the feature where you could just click half innings to watch those specific halves. Now you have to use the poorly implemented/designed (one of the two) Silverlight plugin that doesn't even have a fast foward/rewind feature. So you have to hope to click properly and is going to make any systematic re-watching of particular pitches damn near impossible for my setup.
So there goes that particular post idea. I emailed THT's John Walsh to see if how to get my own self into the pitch f/x data. Josh Kalk's player cards haven't been updated yet.
dude, that was totally not swish you saw on rush street last night. swish was at home playing xbox.
by colintj on Apr 5, 2008 11:00 PM CDT 0 recs
No kidding
Took me about five billion clicks to watch Quentin's throw a few times. It was well worth it, though.
by Sox Machine on
Apr 5, 2008 11:06 PM CDT
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I just can't comprehend why they made a decent product harder to use
Oh wait, exclusive deal for Microsoft's new product? Perhaps some money exchanged hands there? Perhaps? Maybe? Eh?
...Sometimes I really hate Selig. Or maybe I should hate Microsoft for failing to make a decent product again. It's someone.
dude, that was totally not swish you saw on rush street last night. swish was at home playing xbox.
by colintj on
Apr 5, 2008 11:08 PM CDT
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the feed quality got better, though
and it autodetects the 16:9 or 4:3 a little bit smoother.
i'm just irked that the SL plugin won't work if adblock plus is turned on.... fuckers.
by thatshortkid on
Apr 6, 2008 1:27 AM CDT
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ha, that's pretty insidious
dude, that was totally not swish you saw on rush street last night. swish was at home playing xbox.
by colintj on
Apr 6, 2008 2:02 AM CDT
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ugh
mine was working fine until i read this thread.
i just had to reinstall the NexDef plug-in.
garbage.
shouldve got the package through cable for $30 more.
el birdos 'gus' stole my handle!
by e-gus on
Apr 6, 2008 1:27 PM CDT
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3-game win streak and a piece of first place
Last winning streak of this magnitude was at the very end of last season when they strung together 4 wins vs. KC (2) and...drum roll...Detroit (2).
Before that, nothing more than 2 in a row, unless you go back to August 2-5 when they again had strung together 4 wins in a row vs. the Yanks (1) and...drum roll...Detroit (3).
How about a nice sweep tomorrow to really get the Home Opener rockin' - CUE THUNDERSTRUCK!
"We're gonna bring it all day, everyday...we're gonna keep grinding it out." - Nick Swisher (4/1/08)
by tailgater on Apr 5, 2008 11:02 PM CDT 0 recs
we've had Detroit's number since '05, iirc
and I don't know why. Record wise, we have about the same number of wins over that span.
dude, that was totally not swish you saw on rush street last night. swish was at home playing xbox.
by colintj on
Apr 5, 2008 11:09 PM CDT
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Inge's homer
Was a really nice piece of hitting. He kept his hands very tight to his body and jacked a high fastball tailing in and obviously kept it fair. Not many right-handed hitters could do the same. Farmer had led me to believe Floyd grooved a get-me-over right down the middle before I saw the replay.
by 3E8 on Apr 6, 2008 12:05 AM CDT 0 recs
Inge's homer
I might have to disagree with 3E8 here. Floyd fell behind Inge. And, Inge is a pure inside hitter. FOX even showed a stat breaking down his 300+ average on pitches inside.
After Floyd fell behind, he threw inside heat and Inge was all over it. Good job getting his hands through? Yes... but, Floyd can not be behind in the count there, and he should pound the outside of the plate on Inge at all times.
by P-Hose08 on Apr 6, 2008 12:26 AM CDT 0 recs
where was AJ set up?
if he threw it where AJ wanted it, then Inge beat Floyd on a pitch the battery wanted to make.
dude, that was totally not swish you saw on rush street last night. swish was at home playing xbox.
by colintj on
Apr 6, 2008 12:30 AM CDT
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A.J. was set up outside
His fastball tailed in toward the inner half.
by Sox Machine on
Apr 6, 2008 12:55 AM CDT
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Technically, AJ was set up in the dugout.
;)
AIM: SouthSideCheat
by The Cheat on
Apr 6, 2008 12:58 AM CDT
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man, Floyd missed by a mile
dude, that was totally not swish you saw on rush street last night. swish was at home playing xbox.
by colintj on
Apr 6, 2008 1:01 AM CDT
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Touché
Although I'm not entirely wrong to think the Sox only carry one catcher.
by Sox Machine on
Apr 6, 2008 1:23 AM CDT
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stone called it
He mentioned that against Inge you have to make him use the outside half of the plate. He mentioned how that wasn't floyd's strong suit and then 2 pitches later he gave him a ball on the inner half.
by shaftr on
Apr 6, 2008 12:34 AM CDT
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Inge
Floyd clearly missed his spot... He knew to stay away - no doubt... But when you fall behind hitters in key AB's and have to run up a fastball that MUST catch the plate, you run that risk.
by P-Hose08 on
Apr 6, 2008 12:53 AM CDT
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i would disagree on what a great job of hitting inge's homer was. floyd himself said he "grooved" that pitch.
Just because you are a character doesn't mean you have character.
by Toonderstrook on
Apr 6, 2008 9:27 AM CDT
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Doesn't really matter what Floyd says, he saw it in real-time 60 feet away
We have the advantage of zoomed in slo-mo replays. Here is a screen shot of the ball Inge hit for a homer.

As a pitcher you try to prevent the hitter from getting their arms extended where they can generate the most power. Clearly, Inge's hands are practically pinned against his chest. It was the only way he was going to keep that ball fair and he still hit it 15-20 feet over the wall. It was a great swing, you'll only see a handful like that over the course of a season
by 3E8 on
Apr 6, 2008 12:23 PM CDT
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good work.
Just because you are a character doesn't mean you have character.
by Toonderstrook on
Apr 6, 2008 12:54 PM CDT
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Toonder, I just saw "No Country For Old Men" Thursday
That was a great quote you were using as your sig for awhile. Great flick.
I took the "under".
by winningugly on
Apr 6, 2008 3:22 PM CDT
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Glad you enjoyed it. I thought it was phenomenal.
Just because you are a character doesn't mean you have character.
by Toonderstrook on
Apr 6, 2008 3:34 PM CDT
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that movie was awesome
gotta love the message, too. every actor in that movie was memorable.
by MarketMaker on
Apr 6, 2008 4:28 PM CDT
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agreed on No Country
but I'm a There Will Be Blood kind of guy.
by shaftr on
Apr 6, 2008 4:53 PM CDT
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daniel day-lewis is quite a character is his own right
looking forward to seeing that movie.
the thing about No Country is the story is good, the acting is good and it's completely original, but even moreso almost every line in that movie is quotable.
by MarketMaker on
Apr 6, 2008 4:57 PM CDT
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The script is taken almost verbatim from the book
Usually good books make bad movies, but this is an exception.
You should check out "The Road" by the same author.
by ChicagoPete on
Apr 6, 2008 5:09 PM CDT
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i've actually heard mixed reviews of the book
though, eventually, i will check it out for myself.
by MarketMaker on
Apr 6, 2008 5:14 PM CDT
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Cabrera likes 'em in there
especially from Garland. Hopefully we see more than a handful of those this year.
AIM: SouthSideCheat
by The Cheat on
Apr 6, 2008 1:01 PM CDT
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where'd you get that screencap?
dude, that was totally not swish you saw on rush street last night. swish was at home playing xbox.
by colintj on
Apr 6, 2008 1:46 PM CDT
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how long did it take you to get to the right
pitch?
dude, that was totally not swish you saw on rush street last night. swish was at home playing xbox.
by colintj on
Apr 6, 2008 3:44 PM CDT
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Just a minute
You can only skip around the game in like 2-3 minute intervals, but one of the points happened to be right before that home run
by 3E8 on
Apr 6, 2008 3:55 PM CDT
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hmm
maybe i should fiddle with it some more to see if i can't cull something from that crap product
dude, that was totally not swish you saw on rush street last night. swish was at home playing xbox.
by colintj on
Apr 6, 2008 5:46 PM CDT
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Detroit loves Inge
I made the 4 hour trek to watch that game, and that place is crazy about him. They'll be bummed when the fat Cabrera takes back over at third.
The Tiger fans were a pretty well-informed bunch and the SRO had that place packed.
Floyd pitched really well, a lot of first pitch strikes. Id disagree that Jenks was off his game, I think that was an intentional unintentional walk to the red hot Inge since first base was open. Jacque got lucky on that 0-2 pitch for the double, and Bobby took care of Clete for the save.
Left the house at 10am, got home at 10pm. Saw the Sox go over .500, D-Trains first Tiger start(the longer they stick with him, the better it is for us) and paid face value for some cushy(literally) Tigers den seats via Craigs list. All in all a good day.
el birdos 'gus' stole my handle!
by e-gus on
Apr 6, 2008 12:53 PM CDT
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if leyland was smart
they'd move cabrera to left and put inge at third. they're not losing anything - and arguably may be gaining a little - but doing that. of course, with all the injuries they're having, inge is being used pretty much everyday anyway so it may well be a better idea to keep cabrera playing third. long term, though...
"Aw, how could he lose the ball in the sun, he's from Mexico."
by larry on
Apr 6, 2008 1:43 PM CDT
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Optimizing the lineup once JO gets back
I think that should be the focus in the next two weeks. The first move will, quite obviously, be the Owens for Anderson swap. Logic would seem to indicate that Quentin would continue as an everyday player so long as he's producing, keeping JO in a (somewhat) acceptable fourth outfielder role.
...which leads me to A-Ram. He becomes the third CFer once Owens gets back. It appears that he's also third on the second-base depth chart, and does it really matters who backs up The OC? Taking all of that into consideration, it's probably better for him and for the Sox that he makes his way to Charlotte in the coming weeks.
But who to bring up to replace him? I'd imagine the two candidates would be Bourg and -- if he's healthy -- Richar. And, keeping with the theme of trying to optimize the Sox lineup, I'd say our best bet at second would be some type of quasi platoon with Richar, Uribe and Ozuna (he's in there because I know Ozzie loves him some Pablo), keeping in mind two main 'principles' -- first, (a healthy) Richar is probably our best bet at 2nd against right-handed pitchers, and second, Uribe is far-and-away the best defender we can field at second and, as such, should be substituted in anytime the Sox carry a lead into the 8th.
I hope I'm not making a knee-jerk statement here -- and who knows, perhaps I am -- but I think Kenny put together a better 2008 roster than we gave him credit for. Obviously a lot of that is contingent upon guys who we (I?) expected declines from -- AJ, Thome, Dye and Konerko, namely -- and right now, all four are smacking the ball around quite a bit.
by CWSKeith on Apr 6, 2008 1:03 AM CDT 0 recs
We are Shining Shit and Calling it Gold
And the great thing about baseball is that sometimes that works and the gamblers win. If we get Quentin 500 PA and he goes OPS+ 115... if Richar gets 300 PA and puts up a 275/340/420 line, and Uribe gets 300PA and goes /240/280/430 and the knocks every ball down every with hit gut thus saving 20 runs...
Things could go well.
I really hope they do.
by madvillian on
Apr 6, 2008 1:24 AM CDT
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The key to the offense will be keeping the older guys healthy
If Thome or JD goes down it's bad news. If AJ goes down it's a nightmare. If everyone stays healthy this is a pretty good offense, especially if you keep Owens away from it.
The big if is the starting pitching. Floyd had a decent debut, but this Contreras situation doesn't look so good. But then again, does any team have the luxury of five good starters? I'm just wondering if they're covering up an injury, wouldn't be the first time the Sox have unloaded a damaged pitcher.
by ChicagoPete on
Apr 6, 2008 7:01 AM CDT
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uribe's footwork
Is it me or is his footwork at 2nd a little shaky? Normally double plays always seemed to be turned, but now it's 50/50.
by shaftr on
Apr 6, 2008 9:47 AM CDT
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Just take awhile to get used to 2nd I would guess.
'08-to-date --- 1 triple to RF against the Sox.
by ballyb on
Apr 6, 2008 10:18 AM CDT
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Also...
Quentin's throw was my favorite spontaneous White Sox moment since Buehrle's final out on the no-no. I called my brother immediately after the throw to which he responded: "Podsednik couldn't've made that throw to second on the fly, much less to first." I was also trying to think of the last time the Sox had a legit arm in LF (full-time player -- Mackowiak doesn't count).
by CWSKeith on Apr 6, 2008 1:09 AM CDT 0 recs
El Caballo had an accurate arm
It wasn't a rifle, but he could make teams pay for running on him. [
by Sox Machine on
Apr 6, 2008 1:26 AM CDT
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Better than the Podsednik stat.
Sox record WITH Carlos Quentin starting in LF - 3 - 0.
Sox record WITHOUT Carlos Quentin starting in LF - 0 - 2.
'08-to-date --- 1 triple to RF against the Sox.
by ballyb on Apr 6, 2008 7:17 AM CDT 0 recs
I am so excited to finally see a Sox game tonight.
Just because you are a character doesn't mean you have character.
by Toonderstrook on Apr 6, 2008 9:34 AM CDT 0 recs
Me too
I've been watching on MLB.TV but it's nothing like getting the game in HD on the bigscreen. If Ozzie doesn't start Quentin tonight I'm gonna be pissed.
I"m going to the Yankees game with my pops and some friends today, really looking forward to seeing them get swept by the Rays and then watching the Sox try and sweep Detroit when I get home.
by madvillian on
Apr 6, 2008 9:47 AM CDT
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MLV.TV
Is a lousy product. If you have any way to get your money back and have cable or satellite, buy the Extra Innings package. It's superior in every way. If I had had more time and energy, I would have pressed for a refund. In my dealings with their tech-support people (and even a couple execs), I came away with the strong impression that they were out of their depth. They could never simply admit their capacity was insufficient to meet the increased demand after the DirecTV exclusivity debacle. Amateurs.
by expatnyc on
Apr 6, 2008 10:03 AM CDT
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any reccomendtions on how to get Yankee tix?
would like to go to the game vs Toronto on Aug 29, but can't find any sets of 4 together through the yankees website
Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos.
by rhythm on
Apr 6, 2008 2:55 PM CDT
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Feel like watching at George and Walt's?
Or maybe Cato's?
Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos.
by rhythm on
Apr 6, 2008 2:54 PM CDT
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I am still recovering from George and Walt's yesterday. But I could definitely head to Cato's.
Just because you are a character doesn't mean you have character.
by Toonderstrook on
Apr 6, 2008 3:00 PM CDT
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That bad, eh?
too much jagemeister? or was it the clientèle that did it?
Game starts at 5 - I'll try to roll in by 5:30.
Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos.
by rhythm on
Apr 6, 2008 3:10 PM CDT
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