Quentin / Contreras '08
by The Cheat on May 15, 2008 1:27 AM CDT
in White Sox Game Recaps
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Carlos Quentin made his first major league start in the #3 spot, and proved he was up to the task, driving in 5 runs including the game-breaking grand-slam in the 8th.
I'm sure the morning dailies will credit Ozzie Guillen's lineup shake up for the competent offensive attack --and I have to admit that I approve of a number of the changes, including having AJ Pierzynski in the #2 spot against RHP-- but I'd be willing to bet they overplay effect of those changes.
Pierzynski didn't reach base 3 times because he was in the #2 spot. He reached bases because he flared one down the line in the first, was able to lay off some bad pitches, and came up with two on, nobody out and first base open in a tie game. Carlos Quentin didn't drive in 5 runs because he was moved to an "RBI slot." He drove in 5 runs because he's awesome. Just ask Chuck Norris.
Sure, the lineup changes worked in the fact that the Sox scored 6 runs and won the game. But they still sat down quickly while scoring no runs in the 2nd through 7th innings. And there's no reason to believe that the changes will net similar positive results tomorrow.
The fact is, as long as Jim Thome, Paul Konerko, and Nick Swisher continue to make lots of outs the Sox will continue to struggle to score runs, no matter the lineup. Simple as that.
I'm happy Quentin will now be viewed as an "RBI guy" though. Ozzie should now be more willing to insert him into the middle of the lineup when he gives one of the core sluggers a day off, and put him in a position where he's more likely to come up with men on base, which is great since Quentin is about the only player whose at bats I look forward to.
* * * * *
Jose Contreras is in the process of making 2007 a distant memory. He had a dynamite forkball working for him on Wednesday night. I don't think I've seen that forkball since his '05-'06 streak.
Contreras is also throwing a cutter, which I had never really taken notice of before. The only reason I took notice was because he had a noticable velocity drop in an extended 6th inning that saw him throw exclusively forkballs to lefthanders, and almost entirely cutters to the lone righty he saw. The inning is easy to spot on a graph charting his pitch speed. So while I was initially concerned about seeing 86 on the gun, maybe it's actually a reason to think he can continue to pitch like this for the whole season.
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Lineup and Q
The lineup change obviously worked last night. Very refreshing.
As for Quentin, what a performance. Even though the Angels had to walk AJ with no outs and runners on second and third, it was great to see Quentin’s look of “FUCK YOU for walking AJ to get to me!” after he crossed home plate! I haven’t seen that in any Sox player’s eye in a LONG time…
C'mon, Smokey! This isn't 'Nam, it's bowling. There are rules!
Scioscia walking A.J. last night to face Quentin...
was about as stupid as Ozzie IBB’ing anyone on the Yankees to face Abreu. That was a ridiculous move.
I would love to see video of Contreras vs. Vlad where he made him look foolish on three sick forkballs in a row.
Contreras threw some great pitches
Yes, he made Vlad look like the slasher/hacker/free swinger that he is. Similar to the 2005 ALCS. Contreras also threw about a dozen pitches past AJ. I’m sure those wild pitches helped to keep the Angels hitters off balance.
C'mon, Smokey! This isn't 'Nam, it's bowling. There are rules!
Vlad's 3-pitch K
http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/media/video.jsp?mid=200805152705162 on the 0:56 mark (not all 3 pitches…)
The greatest trick the White Sox ever pulled was convincing their fan base that "Ozzieball" ever existed.
3-3 on the road trip
I’d really like to see them take it to Garland tonight…I just have a feeling that Ozzie is going to start the scrubs tonight though. Ozuna, Hall, maybe even Ramirez.
Come on Javy!
Then off to SF, where we kidnap Legend.
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
Always take .500 or better on the road
Good job last night – wish I could’ve stayed up to watch. An 8th inning clutch hit? A home run with men on? OMG. Quentin is definitely from another planet.
Is leather his Kryptonite?
I took the "under".
The guy is intense
I could hear him yell F%^% on the TV when he popped up earlier. Then when he hit the GS – he was full out running till almost 2nd base.
Dis keed plays the game the right way!
So will his style of intensity
and hunger rub off on the old, rich, white guys who have been there, done that?
Stated as an aging, upper-middle class white guy. (Self-loathing, guilt-ridden, AND Republican.)
I took the "under".
...and JD.
Who is a white man in a black man’s body…or vice versa?
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
by BobbySouthSide on May 15, 2008 8:23 AM CDT up reply actions
you are a real piece of work
dude, that was totally not swish you saw on rush street last night. swish was at home playing xbox.
aren't all republicans self-loathing?
It is better to be thought of as a fool, rather than open your mouth to remove all doubt
by whitesoxmatt on May 15, 2008 8:48 AM CDT up reply actions
i thought it was
“aren’t all republicans everyone-loathing?”
dude, that was totally not swish you saw on rush street last night. swish was at home playing xbox.
Republicans:
If the Goverment is a car setting out to give every one a ride to work, then for 40 years the Republicans have been puncturing the tires, pouring sand in the gas tank, stealing the distributer cap, and, whenever they can get their hands on the wheel, driving it straight into the nearest ditch and then, pointing to the wreckage as the tow truck backs up to it, saying, See, this proves that people were meant to walk.
And they do this so that they don’t have to chip in on gas.
http://lancemannion.typepad.com/lance_mannion/2005/09/remember_good_o.html
"Lipstick traces on cigarettes can get you in trouble or remind you of the wonders of the night before."
in this scenario are the democrats hitch hikers?
i wish someone had told me that sportsnation had replaced rationality with caps lock.
I thought
that was DJ yelling f*ck because Hawk took his last handful of cracker jack?
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
by BobbySouthSide on May 15, 2008 8:22 AM CDT up reply actions
are you sure he didn't just lick his forehead?
"Lipstick traces on cigarettes can get you in trouble or remind you of the wonders of the night before."
Oh yeah
I heard it plain as day. And the reason I liked it so much was that he recognized the pitch out of lackey’s hand and was just a touch too early on it and was pissed he didnt drive it. The kid flat out rakes, lets hope he keeps it up for the next 10 years.
I really think
a single would have been more entertaining in that situation than that lame grand slam.
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
Ok - the PK steal - correct me if I'm wrong
But that was not like any running I have seen him do in years. Head down and full out. So has he been dogging it the last couple years then? It appears that way to me after seeing that last night.
The funny thing is that after watching the replay...
it looked like Konerko actually got a good jump and looked like he was running somewhat fast.
that was because
you had 4 bourbon and cokes in you.
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
by BobbySouthSide on May 15, 2008 8:29 AM CDT up reply actions
I thought the same thing
I was so confused, he actually looked like a normal baseball player running. I was stunned.
by Grinder in Training on May 15, 2008 8:37 AM CDT up reply actions
I wonder how many DPs could have been avoided
or extra base hits were missed
I think tonight we'll see the regular lineup....
but Friday night against the lefty Sanchez we’ll see Hall and Anderson start with Swish, Thome (no DH) and A.J. on the bench.
When we caught Hunter stealing, I knew we were going to win the game
It seemed like the Angels started playing White Sox baseball, and vise versa. The events after just feel like a situation that has happened to us time and time again late in a close game, especially on the West coast:
-Quality setup man enters the game
-9th place hitter promptly ropes a single
-Base hit by struggling leadoff man on an 0-2 count into the hole, and terrible decision by SS to attempt a throw which sails over the 1B’s head
-Debatable coaching decision to load bases
-Clutch HR by best hitter on team to effectively end the game
-Slowest player on the team takes advantage of opposing pitcher’s high leg kick to swipe 2nd base
Kotchman even started to combine Konerko’s head shrug with AJ’s bat tossing after a disappointing AB.
If they are going to live and die by the homer
and be successful (although they showed some signs of situational hitting yesterday), they’ll need guys like Q or whoever is hot at the time, to put the team on his back for awhile while others struggle. Hopefully when Q cools off a little there will be someone there to pick him up.
Viva Q!
"We're gonna bring it all day, everyday...we're gonna keep grinding it out." - Nick Swisher (4/1/08)
amen!
The greatest trick the White Sox ever pulled was convincing their fan base that "Ozzieball" ever existed.
Q
Q is carrying the Sox, and my fantasy baseball team.
"God knows I gave my best in baseball at all times and no man on earth can truthfully judge me otherwise."
Will the Sox open discussions for a long term contract w/ Q!?
I know it’s not their modus operandi, but they haven’t had this type of player in this economic age of baseball.
Pitching and defense.
tying up young, pre-arb players like q was arguably invented by the white sox
the reason it hasn’t been their modus operandi recently is because, as you point out, who were they going to tie up?
and thanks for sending that busty latina from your work over to jose.
It was a couple of young honeeys.
One busty.
One not so much, pero una tigre.
Pitching and defense.
Will Q be a Super Two player after this year?
"You might be impressed with your analysis, but I am not. Stop wasting my time." - Chris De Luca
Really?
My understanding is that he will have two full years & change of service time. So, he will be between 2 and 3 years. (A year is 172 days in baseball terms) That means he is Super Two.
Am I missing something?
"You might be impressed with your analysis, but I am not. Stop wasting my time." - Chris De Luca
well, if you can find service time calculations that we can trust, we can use those
super two is usually around 2.14 of service time. my understanding was that carlos couldn’t reach it even with full credit for this year. of course, we really won’t know for sure where the cut off is until later this year.
July 20, 2006 (46 games). Assume he has 48 days of service time.
Started 2007 on the DL. Season debut on April 16th, 2007 (played 81 Games). I’m assuming he was not on the 40-man while he was on the DL, so he probably has about 86 +/- 2 to 3 days of service time for 2007.
Demoted to AAA on July 6, 2007.
Now lets assume he plays a full season with us giving him 172 days of service time for 2008.
That’s a total of 306 days. Dived that by 172, and we get 1.77 years.
Long story short, he won’t be super two. Very Nice.
"You might be impressed with your analysis, but I am not. Stop wasting my time." - Chris De Luca
Assuming he wasn't on the 40-man roster while on the DL
would be a very poor assumption
AIM: SouthSideCheat
Okay, so add about 17-18 days
Still comes in around 1.9 years of service time.
"You might be impressed with your analysis, but I am not. Stop wasting my time." - Chris De Luca
true, but i don't think it matters. my understanding was that he'd be at roughly 2.05 even with a full year this year.
i’m fairly certain super two status has never been below 2.12 of service time.
Regarless. Lock this guy up.
Yeah I know, small sample size. To which I reply – “small sample size, small schmample size.”
They want to make Sox fans feel good? Just do it.
Pitching and defense.
I love him too, but...
Let’s see if he can stay healthy for just a bit longer.
"Lipstick traces on cigarettes can get you in trouble or remind you of the wonders of the night before."
also, let's wait for him to cool down ;)
i don’t think there’s a great rush, here. waiting until the offseason is fine with me. but a 5 year deal of some type, locking him up through his age 30 season, would be good.
I'd go even longer...
like the Brewers just did with Ryan Braun ( 8-years, $45 million ). Quentin is like a young Frank Thomas but he can actually play defense.
wing. HOF wing.
"Lipstick traces on cigarettes can get you in trouble or remind you of the wonders of the night before."
wing? make it floor!
The greatest trick the White Sox ever pulled was convincing their fan base that "Ozzieball" ever existed.
Whoa there.
I like Quentin too, but he’s probably not future hall-of-fame good.
I’m starting to compare him to Magglio Ordonez.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on May 15, 2008 11:15 AM CDT up reply actions
I was using some hyperbole there...
but I do think Quentin will be a top MLB hitter year in and year out.
He’s not likely to hit for the average magglio did, but it seems like his eye is better at the plate than Ordonez, too.
I think we should give him a full season before signing any long term deals. Maybe he’s just having an incredibly hot month and a half.
Remember
his minor league numbers were stellar as well, he has projected as a good hitter his whole career until he got hurt.
if we compare him to magglio
then i think i like my sign through age 30 season even better.
i think he’ll always be a good hitter because of his plate discipline. i question, however, whether his body type, coupled with his injury history, holds up into his thirties. but whatever on the contract. whatever money they sign him to now for 2016 will probably be cheap even for a broken down player so there’s upside.
Is his avg. as good as Maggs?
I took the "under".
by winningugly on May 15, 2008 11:45 AM CDT up reply actions
right now? probably close
.315 or whatever maggs’ career is likely a stretch but i could see carlos being a .300 hitter. until walk gets to him, of course.
he is?
what makes him like a young frank thomas?
dude, that was totally not swish you saw on rush street last night. swish was at home playing xbox.
he's on the white sox!
"For those that don't understand stats... that ops is horrifying."
by Toonderstrook on May 15, 2008 4:31 PM CDT up reply actions
By the way, Larry,
he was 1 – on Monday and Tuesday. Not just cool, ice effing cold (underlined, in blue).
Pitching and defense.
Shoulder sb no problem, IMO. Hamstring, conjecture from experts?
27-Feb-08 Signed by the Chicago White Sox to a one-year contract.
03-Dec-07 Acquired from the Arizona Diamondbacks.
01-Sep-07 Missed 27 games (right hamstring injury).
02-Aug-07 Right hamstring injury, 15-day DL.
27-Jul-07 Recalled from Tuscon (AAA).
06-Jul-07 Optioned to Tucson (AAA).
16-Apr-07 Missed 13 games (shoulder injury).
31-Mar-07 Shoulder injury, day-to-day.
20-Jul-06 Contract purchased from Tucson (AAA).
01-Apr-06 Assigned to minor league camp.
25-Mar-05 Assigned by the Arizona Diamondbacks to their minor league camp.
28-Jan-05 Invited to spring training by the Arizona Diamondbacks.
Pitching and defense.
Out of curiousity...
where did you get all this info?
by The Jerry Royster Experience on May 15, 2008 11:28 AM CDT up reply actions
Just kidding
Lost the exact site, but this is similar:
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/news?playerId=6192
Pitching and defense.
Voila.
http://www.tsn.ca/mlb/teams/players/bio/?id=4207
Pitching and defense.
I love the pitches and yaws of the tenor of the feedback of this site.
Bipolar, man. Q is great for 2 months and we need to lock him up immediately for 5 years? I thought the Longria/Rays deal was slightly premature (though Q has actually hit this year).
Don’t be so quick to throw it all overboard, and don’t be so quick to commit forever. (And who the hell on this site knows better than me? Who?)
I took the "under".
I think he was channeling former Mrs. WU's
per your “invitation”.
"Lipstick traces on cigarettes can get you in trouble or remind you of the wonders of the night before."
Come on, you know me better than that.
100% no.
Pitching and defense.
Kidding aside.
Where would the 2008 Chicago White Sox be without Mr. Carlos Quentin? (shudder, shudder)
Also, next week, while the Sox are in town, Brooks Boyer better have a few photo shoots planned with Q! and a SWAGGER backdrop.
IMO, the rest of the position players are swagger-LESS.
Pitching and defense.
now if only we could get Ozzie to swap him w/Dye in the field...
"Lipstick traces on cigarettes can get you in trouble or remind you of the wonders of the night before."
Insanity (var).
Wishing for the same thing over and over and expecting it to happen.
Pitching and defense.
and then what?
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
by BobbySouthSide on May 15, 2008 11:44 AM CDT up reply actions
bally = larry?
Scary.
I took the "under".
by winningugly on May 15, 2008 11:47 AM CDT up reply actions
I read that wrong
I thought you meant bench JD and move quinten to RF. So I was thinking you were going at starting Anderson in CF, Swish in LF and Quinten in RF. JD platoons with Thome at DH.
Not sure I like that though. Defensively a ton better….
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
by BobbySouthSide on May 15, 2008 11:50 AM CDT up reply actions
....larry, scary, very.
Pitching and defense.
Here's a thought
Given that the Haren and Quentin trades happened just days apart, and that Quentin was a 1-for-1 swap, you could draw the conclusion that Quentin was originally offered in the Haren deal, but that Billy Beane wanted something else (a big power minor league slugger, perhaps) which guided Quentin to us.
Someone should write a book about that ;)
AIM: SouthSideCheat
I thought about that and I think you are right...
and I think that Billy Beane whiffed majorly.
Beane wanted Ryan Sweeney but not Carlos Quentin. Haha.
that's a pretty good point.
that trade had to have been at least laid out, right?
dude, that was totally not swish you saw on rush street last night. swish was at home playing xbox.
He didnt
even try to put a charge in the ball, he just wanted to plate a run by taking it back up the middle, and instead crushed the shit out of it.
Bully for him!
He’s quite a nice fellow.
"We're gonna bring it all day, everyday...we're gonna keep grinding it out." - Nick Swisher (4/1/08)
Batflip.
Where did the batflip come from? Who else does it?
Pitching and defense.
Jeter used to do that
“recoil” toss towards the 1B dugout, but he used two hands. Q is more of a man, so’s his flip is one hand. Its cool, unless you are the knee-capped batboy.
Gooch would launch the bat too on his followthrough.
Mosi Tatupu! Mosi Tatupu!
Aww, you had to bring up Gooch.
Sigh….
I didn’t see the dinger, but if you are talkin’ batflip, what about our own Juanito?
I took the "under".
He does the stupid hands surfing move...
and he’s usually wrong once the ball lands in the LF’er glove.
I love the hands
dude, that was totally not swish you saw on rush street last night. swish was at home playing xbox.
Q
has a nice “defiant” toss.
"We're gonna bring it all day, everyday...we're gonna keep grinding it out." - Nick Swisher (4/1/08)
BTW, enough of those HBP.
Much too valuable.
Pitching and defense.
He can take it...HE IS Q!
"We're gonna bring it all day, everyday...we're gonna keep grinding it out." - Nick Swisher (4/1/08)
Superman could take bullets but not kryptonite
and I’m pretty sure baseballs and hamstrings are the analogs there.
dude, that was totally not swish you saw on rush street last night. swish was at home playing xbox.
sometimes a shot to the elbow affects the hands, what with all of those nerves and all.
"For those that don't understand stats... that ops is horrifying."
by Toonderstrook on May 15, 2008 4:37 PM CDT up reply actions
Because it looks Gladiator-like
He should come to the plate dressed as Maximus Quentinus.
I took the "under".
Q's elbows are made of steel. He doesn't need it.
"We're gonna bring it all day, everyday...we're gonna keep grinding it out." - Nick Swisher (4/1/08)
wrist problems are a real bitch
dude, that was totally not swish you saw on rush street last night. swish was at home playing xbox.
PS Which reminds me:
Where the eff is my T-shirt, Jim? I want to be the first on my block (fairly assured of that) to wear the “target practice” Q shirt.
I took the "under".
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