The FIP Match Game

by The Cheat on May 15, 2008 11:59 AM CDT Comment 69 comments

Fielding Independent Pitching , a measure of all those things for which a pitcher is specifically responsible. The formula is (HR*13+(BB+HBP-IBB)*3-K*2)/IP, plus a league-specific factor (usually around 3.2) to round out the number to an equivalent ERA number. FIP helps you understand how well a pitcher pitched, regardless of how well his fielders fielded. FIP was invented by Tangotiger.

Below is the FIP for each of the White Sox 5 starters. Without cheating (looking it up on the internet), can you match the correct starter with their FIP?

A) 3.47
B) 2.91
C) 2.57
D) 5.17
E) 3.87

0 recs | Comment 69 comments

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My guess

A) 3.47 Javier
B) 2.91 Jose
C) 2.57 Danks
D) 5.17 Floyd
E) 3.87 MB

Pitching and defense.

by ballyb on May 15, 2008 12:13 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

guessing

a. MB
b. JC
c. JV
d. GF
e. JD

"Lipstick traces on cigarettes can get you in trouble or remind you of the wonders of the night before."

by Chiburb on May 15, 2008 12:20 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

a.) Contreras
b.) Danks
c.) Vazquez
d.) Floyd
e.) Buehrle

by TCaptain on May 15, 2008 12:24 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I cheated

(Hey, our site’s main man is named Cheat.) I was off 2 – flipped Danks and Javy.

You guys are schooling the old dogs (me included) on this site. Thanks.

Now go study for your exams, or get a job! (I have to offer SOMETHING.)

I took the "under".

by winningugly on May 15, 2008 12:36 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

for other cheaters

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on May 15, 2008 12:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

he may have cheated, but using an abacus to do the calculations and a chisel and slab of slate to keep track of them is no picnic.

"For those that don't understand stats... that ops is horrifying."

by Toonderstrook on May 15, 2008 12:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I was honest in my self-narcing

So I got that going for me.

And it forced me to do some searches and look at things I don’t normally peruse – so in my rationalizing, it is a positive thing.

I took the "under".

by winningugly on May 15, 2008 12:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

fair enough. i've spent at least the last hour trying to rationalize coming in to work today.

"For those that don't understand stats... that ops is horrifying."

by Toonderstrook on May 15, 2008 1:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Come now,

you haven’t had to use your AK.

Have you?

I took the "under".

by winningugly on May 15, 2008 1:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

nope. i guess today is a good day. but i'm not used to rolling in past one on two weeknights in a row anymore.

"For those that don't understand stats... that ops is horrifying."

by Toonderstrook on May 15, 2008 1:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

1 AM?

Are you a lunatic? I have had 3 nights in a row past 9 PM and I hada tough time waking up this AM. (Though I do get up at 4:45…)

Not even 30 and you are breaaking down. I believe larry and I would agree – no 5-year contract for you.

;)

I took the "under".

by winningugly on May 15, 2008 1:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

ack. i wouldn't take a long-term deal anyway. i don't want to be forced to stop trying hard or playing to win.

"For those that don't understand stats... that ops is horrifying."

by Toonderstrook on May 15, 2008 2:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

is that an ice cube reference? well done, old man.

i wish someone had told me that sportsnation had replaced rationality with caps lock.

by MarketMaker on May 15, 2008 4:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

he's used it more than once. like ice cube, he needs some new material. and i don't mean "are we there yet?"

"For those that don't understand stats... that ops is horrifying."

by Toonderstrook on May 15, 2008 4:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Um, "It's your birthdayyyy"? "I'm into havin' sex, not makin' love"?

(Whiteness exposed.)

I took the "under".

by winningugly on May 15, 2008 4:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

i believe it's pronounced "birf-day"

i wish someone had told me that sportsnation had replaced rationality with caps lock.

by MarketMaker on May 15, 2008 4:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

that song is a classic, though. you gotta give the old guy his due there. he could be referencing "bust a move". actually i like that one, too. nevermind. carry on.

i wish someone had told me that sportsnation had replaced rationality with caps lock.

by MarketMaker on May 15, 2008 4:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Impressed to see 3 of our 5

in the top 15 sorted by this statistic

"I got the shotgun. You got the briefcase. It's all in the game though, right? "

by onlysoxfaninboston on May 15, 2008 3:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

one less thing for hawk to talk about

MLB considering restrictions on maple bats.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/baseball/mlb/05/15/owners.meetings.ap/index.html

by larry on May 15, 2008 2:14 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

That's good.

Passan wrote a good column on it last week. I’ve never seen the bat follow the ball as often as this year.

Never trust a big butt and a smile.
Sox Machine

by Sox Machine on May 15, 2008 2:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

and that's no joke

it’s all fun and games until someone loses an eye. and someone will if this keeps up.

by larry on May 15, 2008 2:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

What's the cost difference per bat between ash and maple?

Is it strictly $ and cents? Is it some environmental BS? Is it availability of supply? Sorry to be dense, but why was it changed?

I took the "under".

by winningugly on May 15, 2008 2:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

maple costs more by quite a bit. like $20 bucks.

players seem to think they’re better, i.e. ball will go farther because the bat is “harder.” studies have shown this to be untrue, at least vis a vis ash bats. but tell that to a ballplayer.

and, iirc, this is one of those things that a certain barry bonds started. asshole.

by larry on May 15, 2008 3:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Thanks.

It would be interesting to see if the “shatter/split” rate differs significantly. $20/bat is a pretty a significant price point.

Curious – if a player gets harpooned, as will happen eventually, can the player sue, and who/what entity would they sue? Or have they waived their right to a “safe” workplace by playing the game?

I took the "under".

by winningugly on May 15, 2008 4:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

You mean ashhole

Show mercy. I get to watch the Rangers.

by Tim from Texas on May 15, 2008 4:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Laffey had a laughie as Cleveland wins again

7 innings, 5 hits, 1 walk, 1 unearned run, 6 Ks.

Does all their starters not suck?

"Lipstick traces on cigarettes can get you in trouble or remind you of the wonders of the night before."

by Chiburb on May 15, 2008 2:54 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

and i heard from indianguy that jeremy sowers is cleveland's best starter. so watch out.

by larry on May 15, 2008 3:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

In 1st place now.

Pitching and defense.

by ballyb on May 15, 2008 4:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Interesting.

Cleveland is last in the AL in BA at.235. We’re at .241.

Next on the hit list – Baltimore (.246), Seattle (.248) and Oakland (.250).

Pitching and defense.

by ballyb on May 15, 2008 4:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

so now i guess the first-place indians' offense must be the biggest joke in all of baseball?

"For those that don't understand stats... that ops is horrifying."

by Toonderstrook on May 15, 2008 4:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Guess so.

And “conversely,” The mighty Detroit Tigers have the worst ERA in the AL at 5.05. They have the next to worst record record at 16 – 25 and are 2 – 9 in their last 11.

Remember, it’s …...................................

Pitching and defense.

by ballyb on May 15, 2008 5:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

It is pretty bad.

Hafner’s been the biggest disappointment, of course, but their double-play combination has provided about as much offense as that of the White Sox.

I think the Indians will run away when the division when all is said and done, though.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on May 15, 2008 5:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Stone and Farmer combo sounding better each game

http://www.dailyherald.com/story/?id=191527

The greatest trick the White Sox ever pulled was convincing their fan base that "Ozzieball" ever existed.

by The Wizard on May 15, 2008 3:17 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

anyone know what dj

i wish someone had told me that sportsnation had replaced rationality with caps lock.

by MarketMaker on May 15, 2008 4:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

...dj's contract status is? i have a friend speculating that this 1 year deal for stone in the radio booth

is a precursor to bringing him in on the tv broadcast with hawk.

i wish someone had told me that sportsnation had replaced rationality with caps lock.

by MarketMaker on May 15, 2008 4:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Last night, I detected a hint of friction between the two.

Pitching and defense.

by ballyb on May 15, 2008 5:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

A)Contreras
B)Danks
C)Vazquez
D)Floyd
E)Buehrle

dude, that was totally not swish you saw on rush street last night. swish was at home playing xbox.

by colintj on May 15, 2008 4:04 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

it looks like i'm right

but it’s not really fair since I looked at Gavin, Buehrle and Contreras within the last two weeks.

dude, that was totally not swish you saw on rush street last night. swish was at home playing xbox.

by colintj on May 15, 2008 4:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Way to ruin it for everyone else

I took the "under".

by winningugly on May 15, 2008 4:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

he just finished what you started.

"For those that don't understand stats... that ops is horrifying."

by Toonderstrook on May 15, 2008 4:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Weren't you going home?

I took the "under".

by winningugly on May 15, 2008 4:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

sorry i'm just that fucking perfect

dude, that was totally not swish you saw on rush street last night. swish was at home playing xbox.

by colintj on May 15, 2008 4:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

The perfect is the enemy of the good

I took the "under".

by winningugly on May 15, 2008 4:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

am i friends with bad out of spite for good?

dude, that was totally not swish you saw on rush street last night. swish was at home playing xbox.

by colintj on May 15, 2008 4:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

The rest of the top of my head just imploded

I took the "under".

by winningugly on May 15, 2008 4:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

look unto the wise and austere 22 year old

and smile. for there is hope in this world.

dude, that was totally not swish you saw on rush street last night. swish was at home playing xbox.

by colintj on May 15, 2008 5:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

If you like winning money on sports gambling.....

I suggest you take a look at the odds on the Indians to win the division.

11-10 as of this morning. Easy money….

by stanchar on May 15, 2008 4:12 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

guy writes an article about disspelling three common misperceptions in the NFL that aren’t based on what he would consider to be solid analysis. the second of the three misperceptions is that shutdown corners are the key to defending the pass. in support of his theory that a strong pass rush is actually the key, he throws in this piece analysis based on hard fact: “[N]oone is going to hit Nolan Ryan when his fastball is measuring over 100 mph.”

"For those that don't understand stats... that ops is horrifying."

by Toonderstrook on May 15, 2008 4:18 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

except Q, damnit.

dude, that was totally not swish you saw on rush street last night. swish was at home playing xbox.

by colintj on May 15, 2008 4:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

1. count
2. danks
3. vazquez
4. buehrle
5. floyd

i wish someone had told me that sportsnation had replaced rationality with caps lock.

by MarketMaker on May 15, 2008 4:23 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

even after colin told you the right answer?!?

"For those that don't understand stats... that ops is horrifying."

by Toonderstrook on May 15, 2008 4:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

MM's a contrarian

I took the "under".

by winningugly on May 15, 2008 4:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

contrarian = idiot, apparently.

i wish someone had told me that sportsnation had replaced rationality with caps lock.

by MarketMaker on May 15, 2008 4:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

i decided to hazard a guess without looking at anyone else's

i am surprised at the answer, though.

i wish someone had told me that sportsnation had replaced rationality with caps lock.

by MarketMaker on May 15, 2008 4:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

You are honest, I'll give you that. There for all to see.

;)

I took the "under".

by winningugly on May 15, 2008 4:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

shows how unflattering floyd's peripherals really are.

sometimes better to be lucky than good anyway.

"For those that don't understand stats... that ops is horrifying."

by Toonderstrook on May 15, 2008 4:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

i knew floyd was pitching over his head, but i didn't realize buerhle was pitching that decently.

that is a really interesting contrast.

i wish someone had told me that sportsnation had replaced rationality with caps lock.

by MarketMaker on May 15, 2008 4:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

OT: anyone using this ceo deliveries company?

just got the menu guide after a friend’s recommendation and it looks awesome.

i wish someone had told me that sportsnation had replaced rationality with caps lock.

by MarketMaker on May 15, 2008 4:47 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

We used this at my work...

...when we were crunching for a deadline and the company provided meals. It was really great; much better than just ordering pizzas.

by vince_ on May 15, 2008 5:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yes, every Wed.

and they suck. ALWAYS late, always with an excuse. Take a look at Seamless Web. More choices, less expensive than CEO.

"Lipstick traces on cigarettes can get you in trouble or remind you of the wonders of the night before."

by Chiburb on May 16, 2008 8:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

my guess

One thing I know for sure is which one floyd is.

A) 3.47- Contreras
B) 2.91- Vazquez
C) 2.57- Danks
D) 5.17- Floyd
E) 3.87- Buerhle

by bhoov on May 15, 2008 5:44 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Toonder? Any commentary?

I took the "under".

by winningugly on May 15, 2008 6:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

not after bhoov gave me the biggest laugh of the day with his reference to floyd's batted balls being incredible.

"For those that don't understand stats... that ops is horrifying."

by Toonderstrook on May 15, 2008 6:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

glad you liked that

The space after the l makes it even better I think

by bhoov on May 15, 2008 6:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

research, analysis, and humor.

as far as i’m concerned, your post below is damn near perfect.

"For those that don't understand stats... that ops is horrifying."

by Toonderstrook on May 15, 2008 6:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Gavin Floyd is

having I think the most statistically interesting season in this young year. Of course the reason his FIP is so high is because he has the 2nd lowest BABIP in the AL.

His batted ball s are incredible. He has the highest fly ball % in the AL, he has the 8th lowest GB in the AL. This would make you think that he’s even worse than his FIP, because GB are fielded at a higher rate than FB. Since he allows a ton of FB he should have an even higher BABIP than a “normal” pitcher. However, he has a LD% of 11.9% (lowest in the AL). And of course an extremely low LD% is the most important determinant (other than luck) of a low BABIP. As a reference the lowest LD% last year was 14% (Carmona), with the next highest 15.4%. in ‘06 the lowest was 15.8%. So yes he has had more to do with his low ERA than FIP indicates, because he is the best in the league at preventing line drives. But no it’s not sustainable because people just don’t go whole seasons allowing 12% line drives. But when this season is over he will I think “deserve” his lower than FIP ERA. It will be very interesting to watch his LD% and ERA rise throughout the year.

By the way I guessed before looking at comments and before doing any research (just for you chiburb). So flipping vazquez and danks wasn’t too bad.

by bhoov on May 15, 2008 6:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

The opposite of the quoted is true

GB are fielded at a higher rate than FB. Since he allows a ton of FB he should have an even higher BABIP than a "normal" pitcher.

GB are fielded about 68% of the time while FB are fielded about 72% of the time. Extreme fly ball pitchers, your Chris Youngs of the world (career BABIP of .267), should have a lower BABIP.

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on May 15, 2008 7:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

You are correct

I guess what I was remembering was that FB are more valuable than GB. But of course this is because 12% of FB become HR. And HR aren’t counted for BABIP and are included in the calculation of FIP.

So actually he has 2 factors in his batted ball data that partially account for his extreme BABIP. Although his low LD% is probably the bigger effect. To illustrate LD% BABIP is .736! FB= .167 GB=.236.Very interesting. Thanks for the correction Cheat.

by bhoov on May 15, 2008 8:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

glad you corrected that.

i didn’t know the answer for sure, but i immediately thought that the ground provided a bigger variable (and so a bigger challenge) for fielding balls in play. nice to occasionally have a natural inclination be right.

i wish someone had told me that sportsnation had replaced rationality with caps lock.

by MarketMaker on May 15, 2008 8:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs