Gavin Floyd, Really?
Gavin Floyd once again flirted with a no-hitter Tuesday night to help the White Sox snap a 6-game losing streak. It was the third time this season that he's taken a no-hitter past the 5th inning.
How's he doing it?
Unfortunately, I have no idea. Before spring training, many of us were quite high on Floyd's future, based largely on the strength of his final 6 starts last season. During those 6 starts, Gavin laid a blue print for how he could become an effective major league pitcher. He fell behind John Danks, however, after a series of mediocre spring training performances. Here's what I had to say about Floyd in my season preview for The Hardball Times.
The final spot in the rotation will be filled by Floyd, about whom I could spout the same trivial anecdotes of increased confidence or new approaches, but my heart wouldn’t be in it. Floyd is what he is, a failed prospect who gives up far too many home runs to succeed in homer-friendly US Cellular Field. Gavin will have to succeed by keeping his walk total low, and keeping his strikeout total up. He’ll never be the pitcher the Phillies once thought he would be, but he could turn into a serviceable control-type back-end starter. His last six starts last season have given the Sox some (misplaced?) hope.
As you sit in front of your computer today, Floyd isn't exactly striking batters out (4.3 K/9) and is walking too many men (4.1 BB/9). He's been successful by keeping the ball in the park (.9 HR/9) and getting extraordinarily lucky on balls in play (.147 BABIP) or extraordinarily good defense behind him (.860 DER), depending on your view.
Rotoworld pointed out, based on the above numbers, that now would be a good time to sell on Gavin Floyd. The Sox aren't playing fantasy baseball, however. This is the big leagues. You can't just trade a valuable young player because he has overachieved in the early season.
What can we expect for the rest of the season?
This is where things get tricky. I'd like to draw the comparison to '05 Jon Garland, who took a big step forward based in large part to a great first 8 starts. But Garland had better peripherals and a longer history of at least being average on his side. Floyd has never had any sustained success at the big league level.
At the time, I argued that Garland had reached a new level. I'm not so sure I can say the same of Floyd. So I'd like to point to our community projection for Floyd. My opinion of Floyd hasn't changed much from when we conducted this projection, I suspect most of yours haven't either. So let's see what happens when we simply add the projection, which was hedged by a few people projecting Gavin to flame out quickly, to Gavin's current line.
That's essentially the line which we came to expect from Jon Garland. He takes a little different route to get there, but the 4.48 ERA, which is above average given the run environment of USCF, the WHIP, the HR rate, are all quite similar to typical Garland.
I think most of us will take that.
* * * * *
Floyd wasn't the only young hurler in the White Sox organization who flirted with a no-hitter Tuesday. The Sox top 2007 draft pick, Aaron Poreda, took a no-hitter into the 6th inning, allowing one hit and one walk while striking out seven in 7 innings pitched.
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Gavin's stuff tonight
was absolutely filthy. He had the Twins completely baffled, and if not for an arguable managing blunder (no real effect on the game, but I think Anderson catches Mauer’s double), Gavin throws a no-no. He apparently found his curveball in Canada, because that was breaking something fierce.
If his stuff stays anywhere near that good, I see his K rate going up along with his homer rate, because he’d absolutely hang a few of those curves. I like how he looks right now though – he’s adjusting to his stuff well in every start and giving the team a chance to lose by one every game. In his start against the O’s, his changeup was great; in his last start versus the Twins, he had pretty rotten stuff and command but kept the team in the game; this start he was obviously phenomenal.
I’m curious to see how the rest of his year will play out and if his stuff remains this inconsistent from start to start. If it does, he’ll probably be a Cy Young contender because teams won’t know what the hell to expect out of him…lol.
something special
by wite on
May 7, 2008 3:45 AM CDT
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"an arguable managing blunder"
I watched the Mauer hit several times. IMO, it’s 60 – 40 Anderson catches it. But if Anderson belonged any place, it was in right field, replacing bad-kneed Dye. Swisher can “go get” a ball, Dye is hopeless. I don’t think Anderson will be the traditional late inning defensive replacement for the Sox. Guillen “respects” certainly Dye’s and maybe also Swisher’s seniority far too much to “humiliate” them with a defensive replacement. I don’t necessarily agree with it, but it’s Ozzie.
Pitching and defense.
by ballyb on
May 7, 2008 8:04 AM CDT
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I think BA catches it...
Anderson probably gets a better jump than Swisher and he is also a better runner.
by SSH2005 on
May 7, 2008 8:05 AM CDT
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Actually, no...
If anything, Anderson should have replaced Dye in the lineup and played CF with Swisher moving over to RF. Or Quentin should have moved to RF with Swisher moving to LF and Anderson playing CF. You can argue that Ozzie wouldn’t want to embarrass Dye or Swisher on their defense but that doesn’t mean it’s the right move.
by SSH2005 on
May 7, 2008 8:09 AM CDT
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Good point re anderson in center, Swisher to right.
I’m not saying it’s right. But it’s not going to happen. Dye belongs in left and it hasn’t even been uttered. THAT is an important decision to the fortunes of the club. Let’s argue about that.
Pitching and defense.
by ballyb on
May 7, 2008 8:21 AM CDT
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I agree except
You make no changes that can impact anything during a game like that – just pure superstition. Its no different than going over to talk to Galvin – you just don’t do it. Is it a wrong managing decision – yes – would virtually every manager do the same as Ozzie – YES.
by Brush Back on
May 7, 2008 8:29 AM CDT
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Good point.
A mutual admiration society.
OK, back to the arguing.
Pitching and defense.
by ballyb on
May 7, 2008 8:37 AM CDT
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My only problem with that thought
is that defensive changes have been made before during no-hitters; Ozzie himself has done it. In Buehrle’s no-no, Anderson was put into LF for Mackowiak in the top of the 8th last year. So why wasn’t Anderson put into the game last night? I do actually think he would have gotten to that ball – Swisher got a good jump on it, but he was a bit slow getting over there. Anderson is a much more fluid runner and I do think he could have gotten there – the difference in speed between Anderson and Swisher is big enough, in my mind, that Anderson would have covered those 4 extra feet and would have caught that ball.
I really don’t think it’s a huge mistake, and seeing Gavin throw a no-no would have been sweet, but I’m just glad he threw a hell of a game and the team got out of a slump.
something special
by wite on
May 7, 2008 11:01 AM CDT
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humiliate them?
bullshit, utter bullshit
it’s not like dye volunteers his services
ozzie’s 9th inning OF should’ve been q in left, swisher to right and BA in center
The greatest trick the White Sox ever pulled was convincing their fan base that "Ozzieball" ever existed.
by The Wizard on
May 7, 2008 1:11 PM CDT
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but like others say no big deal
let gavin stay hungry
don’t want him to think he made it and relax
The greatest trick the White Sox ever pulled was convincing their fan base that "Ozzieball" ever existed.
by The Wizard on
May 7, 2008 1:15 PM CDT
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Agreed
He was still throwing nasty stuff in late innings. His velocity was still in the 90’s too. A great game to watch. Finally.
C'mon, Smokey! This isn't 'Nam, it's bowling. There are rules!
by thekever on
May 7, 2008 7:50 AM CDT
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How about a real haircut?
Last night was the first time I got a good look at Floyd’s haircut. I think the Coen Brothers recommended Javier Bardem’s barber to him.
C'mon, Smokey! This isn't 'Nam, it's bowling. There are rules!
by thekever on
May 7, 2008 7:55 AM CDT
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I'm Back!!!
so after a long, strange trip on the job market, I’m back in Chicago. I wont bother with my recaps of what i’ve thought of the season so far, so i’ll just jump in where I see possible. Gavin Floyd’s curve was nasty last night. Who was the biggest Floyd believe in the winter, was that Bally? I also was very high on him.
12/12/07- We'll miss you Andy Gonzalez
by The Deacon on
May 7, 2008 8:54 AM CDT
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Wecome back.
Why did the job search keep you away?
Re Floyd, wasn’t me. Colin.
I supported Nick Masset.
Pitching and defense.
by ballyb on
May 7, 2008 9:03 AM CDT
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job search
i was moving across the country, involved in lots of interviews, got a dog….. so there was a ton of stuff keeping me off of the internet.
ah yes, the old nick masset argument, has that one been rehashed lately? hahahahah
12/12/07- We'll miss you Andy Gonzalez
by The Deacon on
May 7, 2008 9:17 AM CDT
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Not while we're counting down Uribe's final hours...
Then Ozuna, THEN Masset.
Can’t tell the DFA’s without a scorecard.
"Lipstick traces on cigarettes can get you in trouble or remind you of the wonders of the night before."
by Chiburb on
May 7, 2008 9:22 AM CDT
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well he hasn't done what i hoped/thought he'd do
though apparently he was throwing the slider quite a lot last night, which was the reason for my optimism. if you look at my projection, he hasn’t really done anything like what i thought he might.
dude, that was totally not swish you saw on rush street last night. swish was at home playing xbox.
by colintj on
May 7, 2008 2:28 PM CDT
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too modest
take your plaudits and run with them
Jesus H. Larry! I said the first half!
by larry on
May 7, 2008 2:29 PM CDT
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i'm just jealous i called floyd for a break out instead of danks
dude, that was totally not swish you saw on rush street last night. swish was at home playing xbox.
by colintj on
May 7, 2008 3:18 PM CDT
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Still room on the Danks bandwagon
All aboard!
by Tdogg on
May 7, 2008 3:25 PM CDT
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i'm a believer!
dude, that was totally not swish you saw on rush street last night. swish was at home playing xbox.
by colintj on
May 7, 2008 3:26 PM CDT
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If I remember correctly
I was ridiculed by almost everyone on this board when I proclaimed that Floyd has arrived.
by Where Triples Go to Die on
May 7, 2008 11:11 PM CDT
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STFU
You nailed it. Bask whilst ye can/are able.
I took the "under".
by winningugly on
May 7, 2008 3:03 PM CDT
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Certainly. We are not a modest lot.
Pitching and defense.
by ballyb on
May 7, 2008 3:11 PM CDT
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as soon as I do that, you guys might get it in your head that I'm qualified
to be writing about baseball. can’t have that. y’see.
dude, that was totally not swish you saw on rush street last night. swish was at home playing xbox.
by colintj on
May 7, 2008 3:17 PM CDT
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STFU
We are not a woman who has effed you over. No one is a candidate for bedding down (well…maybe Pete). Step out. Deal.
And that’s it for the “attaboy”. As Tug McGraw (God rest his soul) said, you gotta believe.
I took the "under".
by winningugly on
May 7, 2008 3:20 PM CDT
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i get the feeling you just learned what "STFU" means
and i’m just not one to brag, let alone about something i didn’t even get right!
dude, that was totally not swish you saw on rush street last night. swish was at home playing xbox.
by colintj on
May 7, 2008 5:55 PM CDT
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Well, I was havin' some fun after a nice large
glass of wine.
I took the "under".
by winningugly on
May 7, 2008 6:22 PM CDT
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ain't nothin wrong with that
dude, that was totally not swish you saw on rush street last night. swish was at home playing xbox.
by colintj on
May 7, 2008 6:59 PM CDT
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CORNBREAD...
ain’t nothing wrong with that
-Jeeves Life in the Cell
by jeeves on
May 7, 2008 8:51 PM CDT
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of course you're qualified
since you haven’t been disqualified
The greatest trick the White Sox ever pulled was convincing their fan base that "Ozzieball" ever existed.
by The Wizard on
May 7, 2008 5:32 PM CDT
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Floyd
continues to shake his “soft” label, I think. After Q’s error in a tight game, he really squashed that inning. There was the pressure of the no-hitter, plus the pressure of coming back home after the 6 game losing streak. I’m sure he went out there thinking he’d have to throw a shutout to win with the run support he was apt to get.
And he came through.
Good post, cheat. If he’s our new Garland, that’s just fine.
Mosi Tatupu! Mosi Tatupu!
by Nordhagen on
May 7, 2008 9:59 AM CDT
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One reason I'm hoping Floyd succeeds
Is the “soft” label. It irks me that people like Cowley and Mark Gonzales go around and refer to someone like Floyd as “she”. Conflating the inability to pitch at the big league level with lack of balls is common (witness early assessments of Jon Garland) and just pisses me off. I’m not doubting that confidence is important, but I think this vein of criticism falls into broader category of deciding poor play is caused by a character flaw (e.g. Soriano is selfish or Player X from California doesn’t try hard enough). Which is generally stupid.
by hitlesswonder on
May 7, 2008 10:28 AM CDT
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If he succeeds...
the story will become that he “found his balls” or some such nonsense.
The Twins announcers were talking about how Floyd was “effectively wild” – he never fell into a discernable pattern, nor was he succeeding with just one or two pitches. He was also missing way out of the strike zone at times and keeping the opposing hitters off-balance.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on
May 7, 2008 11:58 AM CDT
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Never heard of the "she" or "balls" related comments.
Special website?
Pitching and defense.
by ballyb on
May 7, 2008 12:30 PM CDT
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In defense of our beat writers
the only time they’ve referred to Floyd as “She” - if they have at all - is to report that was what the Philly writers called him.
AIM: SouthSideCheat
by The Cheat on
May 7, 2008 12:32 PM CDT
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should clear up by tonight
which is good, because I dont want to mess up this 9-inning roll we’re on.
Mosi Tatupu! Mosi Tatupu!
by Nordhagen on
May 7, 2008 11:20 AM CDT
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Rain to stop
around 6 (weather.com)
OR
around 7:30 (accuweather.com).
What’s the weather channel say, Larry?
Pitching and defense.
by ballyb on
May 7, 2008 11:24 AM CDT
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isn't the weather channel the same as weather.com?
at any rate, who cares. they’ll get the game in.
Jesus H. Larry! I said the first half!
by larry on
May 7, 2008 11:26 AM CDT
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yes
go by tom skilling wgntv.com – he is more accurate. He is to weather as Roger Bossard is to grass and dirt.
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
by BobbySouthSide on
May 7, 2008 11:28 AM CDT
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but Bossard didn't have a brother
architecting the Enron scandal (to my knowledge).
So,
Bossard > Skilling
Mosi Tatupu! Mosi Tatupu!
by Nordhagen on
May 7, 2008 11:36 AM CDT
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Man, a great example of the differences in siblings.
Tom – never heard an unkind word about him, salt of the earth.
Jeffrey – as Uncle Henry used to say, “he’d take your eye out, put a grape in there and tell you it looks better.”
Pitching and defense.
by ballyb on
May 7, 2008 11:49 AM CDT
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Wouldn't it kill you to find out that Tommy
loaded up on Enron puts at the right time? On a tip from brother Jeffy?
Now THAT would put me the ledge.
"Lipstick traces on cigarettes can get you in trouble or remind you of the wonders of the night before."
by Chiburb on
May 7, 2008 11:51 AM CDT
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sounds like the typical Bollywood movie plot
except with fewer musical numbers
Mosi Tatupu! Mosi Tatupu!
by Nordhagen on
May 7, 2008 11:55 AM CDT
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Or a Hindu marrying a Muslim
Or poor lady marries rich man.
Rusty Longley v 2.0
by Ozzie Montana on
May 7, 2008 1:06 PM CDT
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I prefer paulie for weather forecasts!
The greatest trick the White Sox ever pulled was convincing their fan base that "Ozzieball" ever existed.
by The Wizard on
May 7, 2008 1:21 PM CDT
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Doesn't look good now
but who knows about later tonight. I think it may stop.
Also, Roger Bossard = God and can have that field dry in no time by just blowing on it.
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
by BobbySouthSide on
May 7, 2008 11:21 AM CDT
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now if I had someone to do that to my cock...;)
Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos.
by rhythm on
May 7, 2008 3:48 PM CDT
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earmuffs. signed, swishit.
Repeat after me: reading comprehension, even a little bit of thought before posting, and basic research are not signs of weakness.
by Toonderstrook on
May 7, 2008 3:49 PM CDT
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By the way...
Orlando Cabrera OPS+ – 53
Juan Uribe OPS+ – 52
Don’t look back, Orlando!
by The Jerry Royster Experience on
May 7, 2008 1:03 PM CDT
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better measure is EqA
.211 to .193. not to mention that uribe ain’t exactly playing stellar D at his new position (though one can certainly allow for uribe dealing with the rangey PK to his left). shoot em both.
Jesus H. Larry! I said the first half!
by larry on
May 7, 2008 1:37 PM CDT
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IMO, Uribe's D has been very good.
Pitching and defense.
by ballyb on
May 7, 2008 1:42 PM CDT
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Agreed.
And Cabrera’s been very unimpressive defensively.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on
May 7, 2008 1:45 PM CDT
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Cabrera's defense has been fabulous
after the first 10 games or so
AIM: SouthSideCheat
by The Cheat on
May 7, 2008 1:46 PM CDT
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Nonsense.
He has a lot less range than Uribe ever did, and his arm is weaker, too.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on
May 7, 2008 1:48 PM CDT
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and so no SS who is not as good as the uribe you remember from 2005 can be good?
nothing like a perception bias, eh jer?
Jesus H. Larry! I said the first half!
by larry on
May 7, 2008 1:49 PM CDT
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I didn't say that.
Cabrera’s noticeably slower getting to balls, and his reaction time is worse.
I’m not saying that Uribe’s great, but Cabrera’s not good.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on
May 7, 2008 1:57 PM CDT
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then what was the point of your post?
introducing uribe to the discussion is bordering on the irrelevant. whether cabrera is bad, average, or fabulous has nothing to do with what uribe was like.
Jesus H. Larry! I said the first half!
by larry on
May 7, 2008 2:02 PM CDT
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My point was that he's been a defensive downgrade...
at shortstop. We all (or most of us) knew and expected this. Cabrera has to hit in order to be an upgrade at any level.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on
May 7, 2008 2:07 PM CDT
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i don't buy that at all
uribe was not particularly good last year. this isn’t 2005.
but i’ve had this discussion before and i’m not interested in going through it again. whatever to the disagreement.
Jesus H. Larry! I said the first half!
by larry on
May 7, 2008 2:10 PM CDT
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Wait a minute Jerry
Uribe in 2006 and 2007 had a .977 and .976 fielding percentage and above average range.
Cabrera for the sox this year has a FP of .994 (one error) and better range than Uribe the last two years as well.
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
by BobbySouthSide on
May 7, 2008 2:43 PM CDT
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Uribe had better range than Cabrera at SS in 2006 and 2007
2006 RF: Uribe – 4.70; Cabrera – 4.29
2007 RF: Uribe – 4.74; Cabrera – 4.42
by Ryno on
May 7, 2008 2:55 PM CDT
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Fielding percentage...
is one of the more useless stats around, for many reasons.
And I deny that Cabrera has or had better range than Uribe.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on
May 7, 2008 2:56 PM CDT
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Maybe in
2006 and 2007 – but look at the stats this year. The year you are complaining about.
His RF in 2008 is 5.07
I’m not getting your logic on how he is so dismal defensively and worse than Uribe – THIS YEAR.
He is hitting like cr*p, but that is totally different.
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
by BobbySouthSide on
May 7, 2008 3:44 PM CDT
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Oops...
I can’t compare him to Uribe this year, because Uribe isn’t playing shortstop this year.
Range Factor isn’t a good stat either. That has as much to do with the makeup of the pitching staff and the fielders next to you as anything else.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on
May 7, 2008 3:51 PM CDT
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Hmm
I am comparing Range Factor and Fielding Percentage from 2008 Orlando Cabrera (who according to you is defensive downgrade this year) to past years of Uribe. I am showing you that the fielding stats this year from Cabrera are better than years past of Uribe.
You said MOST OF US knew that Cabrera was a downgrade this year.
Where are you getting this information? 1. Where is your rationale besides you can just tell and 2. Who are MOST OF US??
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
by BobbySouthSide on
May 7, 2008 3:58 PM CDT
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I've had this argument with larry before.
I can’t quote numbers at you, because I don’t believe that there is a stat that does at all a good job of measuring defense.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on
May 7, 2008 4:03 PM CDT
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Sooooo are we to go with
your supreme intuition and vision Jerry? Cmon. Its lazy to just say that stat means nothing and leaving it at that. A stat can certainly be flawed but you can draw some conclusions from it.
Example a person that had a 1000 fielding percentage and many chances might not be the best shortstop (lacking in range or arm) but its fair to say he is at least avg and compotent.
by Tdogg on
May 7, 2008 4:07 PM CDT
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It's not fair to say that at all.
Simply adding up errors (which is a judgment call by the official scorer) doesn’t say anything at all about a player’s ability.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on
May 7, 2008 4:16 PM CDT
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of course it says something about a player's ability
christ, jer. come on. simply because a stat is not perfect or not all-encompassing does not mean it says nothing.
Jesus H. Larry! I said the first half!
by larry on
May 7, 2008 4:19 PM CDT
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All right...
it says something.
But not really anything worth knowing.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on
May 7, 2008 4:20 PM CDT
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well, i'm not sure why anyone should believe you more than an official scorer.
after all, it’s a judgment call for you, isn’t it?
Jesus H. Larry! I said the first half!
by larry on
May 7, 2008 4:22 PM CDT
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It does though
someone who has 25 errors in a season at 3B compared to someone who has 5 errors means something.
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
by BobbySouthSide on
May 7, 2008 4:19 PM CDT
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sure it does
maybe it’s imprecise, but the idea of “i know it when i see it” has plenty of congealed meaning for official scorers as well as long time outside observers. that’s why when we find out that minor league prospect X has a bunch of errors, we expect that he’ll move positions.
dude, that was totally not swish you saw on rush street last night. swish was at home playing xbox.
by colintj on
May 7, 2008 4:20 PM CDT
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Maybe it will say something...
about a minor-leaguer. If someone’s committing 60 errors a year, that’s a problem.
But saying that player “X” has 5 errors and player “Y” has 8 doesn’t say anything about either player.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on
May 7, 2008 4:22 PM CDT
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i agree. the measure isn't very fine.
that’s not really the point though. it says something and it can even say something decisive, as in the case we’re discussing.
dude, that was totally not swish you saw on rush street last night. swish was at home playing xbox.
by colintj on
May 7, 2008 4:26 PM CDT
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Big HMMM
I know you’ve argued with Larry over Cabrera’s supposed lack of defense and I have wondered where you have come up with this argument. You have no numbers to back it up – none. This is just simply your perception.
To then say “all or most of us” expected something that hasn’t happened is truly strange.
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
by BobbySouthSide on
May 7, 2008 4:07 PM CDT
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All right then.
I take it back. More than a few people thought that Cabrera would be an upgrade on defense.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on
May 7, 2008 4:17 PM CDT
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Thank you
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
by BobbySouthSide on
May 7, 2008 4:18 PM CDT
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And if I had some numbers that I trusted...
I’d use ‘em. I wish I did.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on
May 7, 2008 4:19 PM CDT
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I wish I had
a million dollars. I wish I did.
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
by BobbySouthSide on
May 7, 2008 4:20 PM CDT
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as long as you know what the problems
with the stat are, why is it such a big deal to cite them? “useless” and “flawed” mean separate things entirely.
dude, that was totally not swish you saw on rush street last night. swish was at home playing xbox.
by colintj on
May 7, 2008 4:21 PM CDT
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I didn't say it was a big deal to cite them.
Cite away. Just don’t expect me to take that as dispositive.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on
May 7, 2008 4:23 PM CDT
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jerry doesn't understand defensive stats
and doesn’t care to. which is fine. it just makes arguing with him a futile endeavor. i’d say leave it.
Jesus H. Larry! I said the first half!
by larry on
May 7, 2008 4:23 PM CDT
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Oh, I understand them.
I just don’t think they make for very good evidence.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on
May 7, 2008 4:24 PM CDT
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no, you made it pretty clear last time we had this discussion that you didn't understand the plus/minus system.
Jesus H. Larry! I said the first half!
by larry on
May 7, 2008 4:26 PM CDT
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Oh, you mean...
defensive win shares?
Yeah, I don’t get that, nor do I care to.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on
May 7, 2008 4:29 PM CDT
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no, jer. that's obviously not what i mean.
which illustrates my point.
Jesus H. Larry! I said the first half!
by larry on
May 7, 2008 4:33 PM CDT
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I guess so.
It’s probably not worth arguing any more, as you say.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on
May 7, 2008 4:35 PM CDT
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Wait...
is +/- the one where stringers review video and make determinations regarding balls hit into zones, and compare fielders based on the average fielder making plays in those zones?
by The Jerry Royster Experience on
May 7, 2008 4:45 PM CDT
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if you did, you'd be able to apply them appropriately.
dude, that was totally not swish you saw on rush street last night. swish was at home playing xbox.
by colintj on
May 7, 2008 4:26 PM CDT
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Apply them to what?
I’m pretty careful not to apply them at all.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on
May 7, 2008 4:29 PM CDT
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Evidence of what?
Its different on debating on the very best (where range and arm comes heavily into play) vs a fielder’s ability to be consistent in fielding and throwing for an out.
No one is saying its the holy grail of evidence but you act like a fielder who has a 160 game streak with no errors (that is not proof that he is “probably” a decent field. Thats insane.
Its wierd because you seem to have no problem using that logic and looking outside the numbers the other way. (Like understanding Crede despite errors is good.)
It really is okay to deduce once in awhile.
by Tdogg on
May 7, 2008 4:30 PM CDT
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His range factor rate stat is higher now than Uribe's has been the past 3 seasons
Cabrera’s arm is weaker, yes. But Cabrera is clearly better up the middle, to me anyways
by 3E8 on
May 7, 2008 1:58 PM CDT
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uh huh
i’m not saying uribe hasn’t been fine. he’s been average. i suspect my disappointment is that i expected more from him – i.e., above average at second.
Jesus H. Larry! I said the first half!
by larry on
May 7, 2008 1:49 PM CDT
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obviously he needs to be well above average to have much worth - he's still got time. it has only been a month or so.
Jesus H. Larry! I said the first half!
by larry on
May 7, 2008 1:50 PM CDT
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What metrics are you using Larry?
What I read on Hardball looks pretty good.
by Tdogg on
May 7, 2008 1:52 PM CDT
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my eyes, tdogg. only eyes, of course.
i’m using a few different ones – never rely on just one, of course, when doing defensive evaluations.
at any rate, i’ve just seen him screw a few things up at second. i think a lot of it is positioning and just general unfamiliarity/unease that may very well just go away. i think he also is hindered by who is to his left and behind him. no one on the field – one might argue swish because of dead legs to his right – has more “room” that he needs to be covering because no one else can or will be able to help him out.
Jesus H. Larry! I said the first half!
by larry on
May 7, 2008 1:59 PM CDT
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Thought you were going Pete on me for a second
See this is my frustration with defensive metrics. Also it seems like no one in general wants to either really properly credit the pitchers or the overall defense for what the team has done in their run prevention. Either one or the other has done something correct.
by Tdogg on
May 7, 2008 2:06 PM CDT
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also keep in mind that
contrary to assertions of some, defense isn’t quite as “consistent” as some would like to believe it is. cabrera is a good example. he had a bad stretch. now he’s much better. the different fielding measures are not really unlike offensive statistics in that they measure things a little differently and weigh things a litte differently. you really need more than a month or so to evaluate well.
Jesus H. Larry! I said the first half!
by larry on
May 7, 2008 2:13 PM CDT
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Good point.
Surprised I didnt really think like that its not like I watched Crede have 3 bad games on D and said “he’s brutal”
The difference may be that those with exceptional reputations (deserved or underserved) are expected to be ultra consistent
by Tdogg on
May 7, 2008 2:20 PM CDT
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the range of performance is not nearly as large as on the offensive side
you know, you’re not going to see a guy do the equivalent of a 2-25 stretch in the field. it’s pretty much impossible for a major leaguer to be that bad. but you’re going to slump or get hot on defense, too. injuries play their part. unfamiliarity with your pitchers – which may have been what was plaguing cabrera early on – can play a part. luck will, too. so on.
Jesus H. Larry! I said the first half!
by larry on
May 7, 2008 2:26 PM CDT
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From watching him play...
I think Uribe’s having some trouble adjusting to the position. He’s getting by on raw talent, but he hasn’t played second base enough recently that the things he needs to do come naturally.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on
May 7, 2008 1:56 PM CDT
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He definitely
is not the best when it comes to turning the double play, but his arm makes up for it compared to most 2B’s so it hasn’t really been an issue.
by Grinder in Training on
May 7, 2008 1:59 PM CDT
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I was gonna point that out Cheat.
Didnt know 10 games was the marker but Cabrera has been really good on D lately. At this point folks are just repeating the same thing over and over regardless of changing circumstances.
And yes Uribe has been good defensively also.
by Tdogg on
May 7, 2008 1:49 PM CDT
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The White Sox team Def Eff
Is up to .711 and steadily climbing over the last 2 weeks.
by Tdogg on
May 7, 2008 1:50 PM CDT
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really? wow
not too shabby. part of that is BABIP luck. DER is a difficult stat to parse, since it is literally just 1-BABIP and we all know what a difficult thing BABIP is.
dude, that was totally not swish you saw on rush street last night. swish was at home playing xbox.
by colintj on
May 7, 2008 2:35 PM CDT
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Exactly.
It’s really hard to sort out the pitcher’s contribution from the fielder’s, and really difficult to separate out the fielders from each other.
I will say that the defense is much better than I expected it would be. Part of that is because Crede is playing third base instead of Fields, but a big part is Nick Swisher is a much, much better center fielder than the guy I saw in Oakland last year. Mea Culpa on that.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on
May 7, 2008 2:59 PM CDT
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An average defender in center with that bat
KW’s okay at what he does sometimes.
dude, that was totally not swish you saw on rush street last night. swish was at home playing xbox.
by colintj on
May 7, 2008 3:20 PM CDT
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STFU
You acknowledge an error in judgement?
Perhaps the Scrubs CAN win the WS!
;)
I took the "under".
by winningugly on
May 7, 2008 3:21 PM CDT
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THT says it's .702 which is exactly average as of today
dude, that was totally not swish you saw on rush street last night. swish was at home playing xbox.
by colintj on
May 7, 2008 2:47 PM CDT
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hooray for average!
at least its not bad…
It is better to be thought of as a fool, rather than open your mouth to remove all doubt
by whitesoxmatt on
May 7, 2008 2:55 PM CDT
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that's all we ask!
dude, that was totally not swish you saw on rush street last night. swish was at home playing xbox.
by colintj on
May 7, 2008 3:21 PM CDT
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C's get degrees!
It is better to be thought of as a fool, rather than open your mouth to remove all doubt
by whitesoxmatt on
May 7, 2008 3:22 PM CDT
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we should know
dude, that was totally not swish you saw on rush street last night. swish was at home playing xbox.
by colintj on
May 7, 2008 3:22 PM CDT
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i'm more concerned about what eyes says.
Jesus H. Larry! I said the first half!
by larry on
May 7, 2008 2:55 PM CDT
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i'm surprised you and Cheat think OC has been doing well
i haven’t sat down and watched in a while, but I’ve yet to see him do something that I thought was above average.
dude, that was totally not swish you saw on rush street last night. swish was at home playing xbox.
by colintj on
May 7, 2008 3:21 PM CDT
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Watch. His "D" is much improved,
both on a consistent basis and the “highlight reel” variety.
I took the "under".
by winningugly on
May 7, 2008 3:22 PM CDT
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i'm a nomad. and it's not like there's some service i subscribe to that allows me to watch White Sox games wherever I am (blackout restrictions excepted)
so I’m not sure how I’ll be able to manage that.
dude, that was totally not swish you saw on rush street last night. swish was at home playing xbox.
by colintj on
May 7, 2008 3:26 PM CDT
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I am watching, and I disagree.
but as larry would say, whatever.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on
May 7, 2008 3:26 PM CDT
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the gomez play last night was certainly above average
and his quick release and accurate throw to get rolen on monday was above average. but i’m not arguing he’s been above average overall. he’s been average-ish. which is fine so long as he starts hitting.
Jesus H. Larry! I said the first half!
by larry on
May 7, 2008 3:32 PM CDT
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I agree here
He did complain about the cold and never having to play in that much of it. So if he can keep his def on track as it gets warmer and start to at least get close to his carreer hitting ability – I’ll have no issue with him.
by Brush Back on
May 7, 2008 3:40 PM CDT
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BP
Gavin Floyd almost threw a no-hitter last night, so you might think the timing is off for me to tell you that you can expect a decline in his performance. That’s the case, though, as Floyd’s ERA of 2.50 does not sync up with his 6.22 QERA. Floyd is walking almost as many hitters as he is striking out (4.1 BB/9 versus 4.3 K/9), which is two problems at once. That’s far too many walks, and nowhere near enough punchouts. Combine that with only 35 percent of all batted balls as grounders—in a park designed to give power hitters a boost—and you can see why QERA is pessimistic about Floyd’s future, even though it isn’t park-adjusted.Floyd has succeeded so far thanks to only allowing 4.5 hits per nine innings, which translates into an opponents line of .149/.250/.291. The White Sox have played some excellent defense behind him, better defense than their rank of 13th in Defensive Efficiency lets on. Take a look at this chart from First Inning to see how low the averages are around the diamond:
He’s had problems with balls to right, but every other spot on the diamond is turning into an out. Even if his outfield numbers last, it’s tough to believe that the opposition is going to hit under .100 on groundballs for the season. So, you can expect Floyd’s H/9 to increase, bringing his ERA up with it. Considering last night’s performance, it’s the perfect time to sell to an optimist.
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=7483
hmm, why balls on right? who do we…
oh ok!
The greatest trick the White Sox ever pulled was convincing their fan base that "Ozzieball" ever existed.
by The Wizard on
May 7, 2008 1:41 PM CDT
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i love first inning
dude, that was totally not swish you saw on rush street last night. swish was at home playing xbox.
by colintj on
May 7, 2008 2:36 PM CDT
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Floyd's Slider
Opposing hitters having to protect against an extra pitch is another reason Floyd has found success early this season. He started using it frequently late last season which probably not coincidentally is when Floyd started stringing together all those quality starts. And his slider is a good one, Cheat provided pitch data sometime this offseason I believe which showed it was his most effective pitch by a wide margin. He struggles too much with command still and if that remains the case I’d expect his peripherals to hold steady and his BAA will come falling quickly back down to earth (or should that be rising back down to earth?). But if he somehow can garner better command of his arsenal then the periphs will obviously improve and overall he’ll land somewhere between where he is now and where he should be
by 3E8 on
May 7, 2008 1:47 PM CDT
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When you say most effective
Do you know what metrics that takes into account? Does it mean most likely to be thrown for a strike and therefore be effective or his best based purely on stuff or the times that something positive happens with it (I.e. a strike, ground out, fly out, etc.. vs. a ball, hit, HBP)? I’m just curious what goes into the math.
I’d have to think his curveball is his best pitch stuff wise, if you don’t count the fact he can’t always throw it for a strike.. and if it’s not, maybe Floyd will be better then I thought because that thing if it’s thrown for a strike is just disgusting.
by Grinder in Training on
May 7, 2008 1:58 PM CDT
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No, not most likely to be a strike per se
But I know the slider was the pitch that when swung at was whiffed at the highest percentage. Also when it was hit, I believe less damage was done compared to the other pitches. Like a lower XBH% against on the slider. If I can find the article I’ll link it.
But you can look at fangraphs to see that Floyd never threw a slider in Philly and now he’s throwing it more often this year than last, increasing to 20%. He’s throwing slightly more change ups this year which at times are effective (i.e. the K on Kubel last night).
by 3E8 on
May 7, 2008 2:08 PM CDT
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He certainly wont end with a sub 3 era regardless (sub 4 is still a stretch)
But his Ks should go up and his K/BB ratio will definitely improve.
by Tdogg on
May 7, 2008 2:01 PM CDT
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Agreed.
I said before it all started he was capable of 150-175 innings in the 4.3-4.7 range. Most laughed. I based it mainly on his minor league numbers from last year, which indicated tremendous growth, plus those September games. Am I totally convinced? No. Is my prediction stupid? Certainly not.
by dantesox on
May 7, 2008 2:04 PM CDT
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I think most of us still don't know what to "make" of Gavin
But we can’t just casually toss out what he did in Sept now. A month where his k/bb was 25/8. I feel much better about his long term prospects than I did on March 28th.
by Tdogg on
May 7, 2008 2:11 PM CDT
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Also the whole
Out of zone strikes/swings bears watching though. I watched a number of Clev games this year and seen how folks are starting not to swing at Carmona’s sinker. Just take the damn thing and walk. Gavin who doesnt have his gb talents still needs to hit that strike zone.
by Tdogg on
May 7, 2008 2:16 PM CDT
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This is really conjecture
and grasping for explanations, but it seems like his delivery may also be deceptive insofar as release point. As opposed to what we might describe as a “shortarmer,” Floyd seems to hold onto the ball unusually long, and that may be helping him. Do you see that too?
by dantesox on
May 7, 2008 2:25 PM CDT
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Maybe. Or it could just be the late movement
Cuddyer seemed to talked about. His long delivery might be helping him, but it aint helping AJ.
by Tdogg on
May 7, 2008 2:33 PM CDT
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Short-arming
is meant to mean (by my understanding) that you don’t hold on to the ball very long. Instead of a long “whole arm” action that finishes up out over your landing leg, he cuts it off pretty quickly.
dude, that was totally not swish you saw on rush street last night. swish was at home playing xbox.
by colintj on
May 7, 2008 2:41 PM CDT
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i thought short-arming
had more to do with your arm backswing, rather than follow-through.
Mosi Tatupu! Mosi Tatupu!
by Nordhagen on
May 7, 2008 3:04 PM CDT
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not in my experience
but you could be right.
dude, that was totally not swish you saw on rush street last night. swish was at home playing xbox.
by colintj on
May 7, 2008 3:22 PM CDT
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i'm no pitching coach
but I believe its when your elbow is dropped on the backswing. Anyway, we’re probably talking about two different points in the same type of delivery.
Mosi Tatupu! Mosi Tatupu!
by Nordhagen on
May 7, 2008 3:36 PM CDT
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it's tough to say without some accompanying visuals
dude, that was totally not swish you saw on rush street last night. swish was at home playing xbox.
by colintj on
May 7, 2008 4:23 PM CDT
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the 2007 data
http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pu3ZedtKEM2s6KFITrZDKFg&gid=0
AIM: SouthSideCheat
by The Cheat on
May 7, 2008 2:22 PM CDT
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His slider and improved mechanics were the two reasons for my initial optimism
but the slider this year has often been absent. He apparently had it last night though.
dude, that was totally not swish you saw on rush street last night. swish was at home playing xbox.
by colintj on
May 7, 2008 2:37 PM CDT
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He had the yakker
Knee-buckler. If he can control his curve it’s devastating.
I took the "under".
by winningugly on
May 7, 2008 3:05 PM CDT
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I think I'm still having some problems with the new site's 'format'
Can someone help me out here? Say I’m reading a thread and someone makes a post above where I was reading. Whenever I hit ‘Z’, it doesn’t scroll up to that new post—rather, it erases the post and thus forces me to scroll up to see if the new post is above where I’m currently reading (which isn’t a huge problem in the grand scheme of things, but in the 150-post threads it’s somewhat annoying).
by CWSKeith on
May 7, 2008 3:02 PM CDT
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erases what post?
dude, that was totally not swish you saw on rush street last night. swish was at home playing xbox.
by colintj on
May 7, 2008 3:23 PM CDT
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the new post that appears above where I'm currently reading
by CWSKeith on
May 7, 2008 3:25 PM CDT
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it erases it though?
i’m not sure what’s happening. what are you running?
dude, that was totally not swish you saw on rush street last night. swish was at home playing xbox.
by colintj on
May 7, 2008 3:27 PM CDT
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zune
"Lipstick traces on cigarettes can get you in trouble or remind you of the wonders of the night before."
by Chiburb on
May 7, 2008 3:32 PM CDT
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i think he means that it shows the post as read, so he has to search by timestamp or the formatting rather than seeing it as unread.
Repeat after me: reading comprehension, even a little bit of thought before posting, and basic research are not signs of weakness.
by Toonderstrook on
May 7, 2008 3:33 PM CDT
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yep, same here
I’ve experienced the highlight thing go up and get the new message but in very few instances, like 5 out of 100
the rest of the time an upper message is marked without me seeing it…
The greatest trick the White Sox ever pulled was convincing their fan base that "Ozzieball" ever existed.
by The Wizard on
May 7, 2008 5:50 PM CDT
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i've used a bunch of different comps
but it almost always works for me. it’s almost always with firefox though.
dude, that was totally not swish you saw on rush street last night. swish was at home playing xbox.
by colintj on
May 7, 2008 5:56 PM CDT
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I'm using firefox, I'm having the same problem with the z function the last few days
If you’re mid thread like during a game it works fine. But when you come into the site clean and open the thread it doesn’t take you directly to the new comments like it used to.
"The little things are always in my mind," he said. "I always like to move the guy over, I like to bunt."
by ChicagoPete on
May 7, 2008 6:11 PM CDT
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happens to me, too
Jesus H. Larry! I said the first half!
by larry on
May 7, 2008 3:33 PM CDT
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if i click in the thread, then hit Z, it goes back to find the recent post above where i was at.
Repeat after me: reading comprehension, even a little bit of thought before posting, and basic research are not signs of weakness.
by Toonderstrook on
May 7, 2008 3:37 PM CDT
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Nice Chicago-ese dangling participle
You can take the Toonder out of Chicago…
I took the "under".
by winningugly on
May 7, 2008 3:38 PM CDT
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where was the participle in my comment, dickens?
Repeat after me: reading comprehension, even a little bit of thought before posting, and basic research are not signs of weakness.
by Toonderstrook on
May 7, 2008 3:40 PM CDT
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Of course, it IS appropriate sentence structure
for Blazing Saddles:
“Where are all the white women at?”
Yeah, “at” is an “article”, but you get my drift, Chicagoan. No Left Coaster dangles that shit out there.
I took the "under".
by winningugly on
May 7, 2008 3:46 PM CDT
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participle? article?
i’m guessing you need to apply head-on directly to your forehead.
Repeat after me: reading comprehension, even a little bit of thought before posting, and basic research are not signs of weakness.
by Toonderstrook on
May 7, 2008 3:47 PM CDT
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OK, only Beck can end a sentence
with “at” where it is appropriate.
I took the "under".
by winningugly on
May 7, 2008 3:49 PM CDT
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a preposition? and the rule from your day only applies today in formal writing, mac.
Repeat after me: reading comprehension, even a little bit of thought before posting, and basic research are not signs of weakness.
by Toonderstrook on
May 7, 2008 3:47 PM CDT
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Sooooo defensive
Put it in a brief and see what The Man says, bro.
I took the "under".
by winningugly on
May 7, 2008 3:50 PM CDT
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a brief is formal writing. hell, i even capitalize in a brief.
Repeat after me: reading comprehension, even a little bit of thought before posting, and basic research are not signs of weakness.
by Toonderstrook on
May 7, 2008 3:53 PM CDT
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i don't
Jesus H. Larry! I said the first half!
by larry on
May 7, 2008 3:54 PM CDT
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JESUS H LARRY, YOU DON'T CAPITALIZE?
I took the "under".
by winningugly on
May 7, 2008 3:55 PM CDT
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your spelling is too crisp
Jesus H. Larry! I said the first half!
by larry on
May 7, 2008 3:58 PM CDT
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I love role playing WTGTD
WTF TOONDER, WHO TAUGHT YOU TO WRITE?
I took the "under".
by winningugly on
May 7, 2008 3:54 PM CDT
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THE POLISH WOMAN WHO RUNS BILLS OF LADING OF COURSE
Repeat after me: reading comprehension, even a little bit of thought before posting, and basic research are not signs of weakness.
by Toonderstrook on
May 7, 2008 3:56 PM CDT
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Read up, before you make ignorant comments like that.
“Repeat after me: reading comprehension, even a little bit of thought before posting, and basic research are not signs of weakness.” – sure it is. Someone who takes blogging and grammar this seriously, needs to get laid.
by Where Triples Go to Die on
May 7, 2008 11:17 PM CDT
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"THE POLISH WOMAN WHO RUNS BILLS OF LADING OF COURSE"
“RUNS BILLS OF LADING” What the fuck are you talking about? You may be the biggest HOMO I have ever encountered. That must be why you chose to live out by the Bay right?
by Where Triples Go to Die on
May 7, 2008 11:22 PM CDT
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yo, everybody! "the champ is hear!"
Repeat after me: reading comprehension, even a little bit of thought before posting, and basic research are not signs of weakness.
by Toonderstrook on
May 8, 2008 11:41 AM CDT
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i'm only as defensive as o-cab...which is to say, it varies by metric.
Repeat after me: reading comprehension, even a little bit of thought before posting, and basic research are not signs of weakness.
by Toonderstrook on
May 7, 2008 3:54 PM CDT
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If I want to move posted new responses I hit x
by Tdogg on
May 7, 2008 3:38 PM CDT
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Then I hit c (to erase highlight) then c again.
It moves me thru posts like tab.
by Tdogg on
May 7, 2008 3:40 PM CDT
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just click the thread where you are?
The greatest trick the White Sox ever pulled was convincing their fan base that "Ozzieball" ever existed.
by The Wizard on
May 7, 2008 5:51 PM CDT
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Bah, I didn't see this until I posted my piece
But on BTB I added that it appears he’s throwing a few new pitches this year, otherwise we basically hit on the same points.
"I've seen many, many blue skies turn gray, but the sun will eventually return, and so will I. So will I." - Carlos Pena
by R.J. Anderson on
May 7, 2008 3:47 PM CDT
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An amusing article about our fearless leader, Ozzie
http://sportspickle.com/features/volume7/2008-0507-guillen.html
Don’t know how to make the link, sorry.
Show mercy. I get to watch the Rangers.
by Tim from Texas on
May 7, 2008 4:27 PM CDT
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I like the "current lineup" listed
Taintstain,....., Vagina, and Juan Uribe.
Very Nice!
Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos.
by rhythm on
May 7, 2008 4:56 PM CDT
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Looks like the link worked anyway
Show mercy. I get to watch the Rangers.
by Tim from Texas on
May 7, 2008 4:28 PM CDT
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yes, that's fine. you also can write the title you desire your link to have
from http://www.sbnation.com/guide/fanpost:
To add a link … first type out and highlight the text that you want to have serve as the linked text. Next, click the link button [
]. This will pop-up a small window where you can either type or paste the URL to create the link.
or just press the link button and add text afterwards. The button will open a small window in your browser where you can either type or paste in the URL for your link. Click ‘OK’ and link tags will be inserted
example,
1. write ‘minor league baseball’
2. highlight the words ‘minor league baseball’
3. click 
4. in the box that comes up put http://milb.com and click OK
and you get this: ‘minor league baseball‘
The greatest trick the White Sox ever pulled was convincing their fan base that "Ozzieball" ever existed.
by The Wizard on
May 7, 2008 6:17 PM CDT
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or you can use this link
for all your internet linking needs. i bookmarked it and it’s come in handy several times.
http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Guide/
i wish someone had told me that sportsnation had replaced rationality with caps lock.
by MarketMaker on
May 7, 2008 6:19 PM CDT
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yes, nice tutorial
The greatest trick the White Sox ever pulled was convincing their fan base that "Ozzieball" ever existed.
by The Wizard on
May 7, 2008 6:21 PM CDT
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plus that guy in the picture (dave raggett) is one of the more handsome men that i've ever laid eyes on
i wish someone had told me that sportsnation had replaced rationality with caps lock.
by MarketMaker on
May 7, 2008 6:54 PM CDT
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Dave, is that you?
God, I hope so.
I took the "under".
by winningugly on
May 7, 2008 7:01 PM CDT
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day 3 of the josh fields watch
still no play.
Jesus H. Larry! I said the first half!
by larry on
May 7, 2008 5:08 PM CDT
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any explanation given thus far?
dude, that was totally not swish you saw on rush street last night. swish was at home playing xbox.
by colintj on
May 7, 2008 5:09 PM CDT
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DL
White Sox third base prospect Josh Fields was placed on the disabled list at Triple-A Charlotte because of right patella tendinitis.
http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports_hardball/2008/05/fields-on-dl-li.html
The greatest trick the White Sox ever pulled was convincing their fan base that "Ozzieball" ever existed.
by The Wizard on
May 7, 2008 6:59 PM CDT
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No biggie
though any sort of tendinitis for a guy that young isn’t a jump-for-joy event.
I took the "under".
by winningugly on
May 7, 2008 7:02 PM CDT
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i've had that one
good fun.
Jesus H. Larry! I said the first half!
by larry on
May 7, 2008 7:33 PM CDT
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can anyone tell me how to search for/ find an old comment if you're not sure which thread it was in?
i wish someone had told me that sportsnation had replaced rationality with caps lock.
by MarketMaker on
May 7, 2008 5:41 PM CDT
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extended application of logic/deduction?
dude, that was totally not swish you saw on rush street last night. swish was at home playing xbox.
by colintj on
May 7, 2008 5:56 PM CDT
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or google if you remember any details well enough
Repeat after me: reading comprehension, even a little bit of thought before posting, and basic research are not signs of weakness.
by Toonderstrook on
May 7, 2008 6:15 PM CDT
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now that is an idea. thank you, sir.
i wish someone had told me that sportsnation had replaced rationality with caps lock.
by MarketMaker on
May 7, 2008 6:17 PM CDT
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Yo dudeski, I just sent you an email
"The little things are always in my mind," he said. "I always like to move the guy over, I like to bunt."
by ChicagoPete on
May 7, 2008 6:18 PM CDT
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give me a few minutes to look at the links.
Repeat after me: reading comprehension, even a little bit of thought before posting, and basic research are not signs of weakness.
by Toonderstrook on
May 7, 2008 6:35 PM CDT
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i wish you would have just suggested i skip it.
if i wanted to use logic or deduction, i wouldn’t have quit school in the seventh grade to take up an all-consuming heroin addiction that has destroyed everything i ever cared about.
i wish someone had told me that sportsnation had replaced rationality with caps lock.
by MarketMaker on
May 7, 2008 6:16 PM CDT
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Wow, I think we're long lost twins
cause I did the same thing!
Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos.
by rhythm on
May 7, 2008 6:23 PM CDT
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Don't exaggerate re: the "all consuming heroin addiction"
Your meth habit is pretty awesome, also, you Breaking Bad bastard, you.
I took the "under".
by winningugly on
May 7, 2008 6:26 PM CDT
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What can I say, guilty as charged
Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos.
by rhythm on
May 7, 2008 6:27 PM CDT
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Which bottle of wine are you currently on?
or have you grown some balls and switched to tequila?
Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos.
by rhythm on
May 7, 2008 6:27 PM CDT
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Fiji H2O.
So I’ll have less starch in my shorts come game time.
I took the "under".
by winningugly on
May 7, 2008 6:34 PM CDT
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that show 'breaking bad' is awesome
who knew malcolm’s dad was living such an interesting double life?
i wish someone had told me that sportsnation had replaced rationality with caps lock.
by MarketMaker on
May 7, 2008 6:56 PM CDT
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they're working on it
in the meantime use google:
say you look for that bugs and cranks story about jerry
type this on google:
bugs cranks jerry site:southsidesox.com
presto!
ps. this is the same:
bugs cranks jerry site:http://www.southsidesox.com/
The greatest trick the White Sox ever pulled was convincing their fan base that "Ozzieball" ever existed.
by The Wizard on
May 7, 2008 6:34 PM CDT
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thanks for the help, never would have found it otherwise
i wish someone had told me that sportsnation had replaced rationality with caps lock.
by MarketMaker on
May 7, 2008 6:57 PM CDT
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