Are The Sox Poised To Take Division in June?
by The Cheat on Jun 10, 2008 2:04 AM CDT
in Recaps
299 comments
One of my favorite memories of my life as a White Sox fan is lucking into front row walk-up tickets following the famous undefeated 7-game Indians/Yankees road trip in 2000. My brother and I chanted along with 40+K Sox fans as Kip Wells out-dueled Bartolo Colon, pitching probably his best game in a Sox uniform. For the games final 4 innings, the stadium echoed with chants of "Eight-And-A-Half," the Sox division lead over the visiting Indians following their presumptive victory.
It seems that in each of the Sox recent division-winning campaigns, there is that moment where you finish watching a game and you left thinking, "This thing is over. They're gonna win the division." In 2000, that game against Cleveland was it.
Wells couldn't find the strike zone at all that year. He had lasted just 2 innings in his last start, which just so happened to be against Cleveland. Yet, there he was pounding the strike zone in the biggest game of his young career, experiencing a true playoff atmosphere for the first time. The stars had aligned. The Sox were for real, punching their playoff ticket in June.
2005 had a similar moment for me. The Sox had run off a couple of 8-game winning streaks in the first 40 games of the season, but were never really able to distance themselves from the Twins, who were off to a hot start themselves. But in the middle of what would become their 3rd 8-game winning streak before the All-star game, they strung together two late inning comebacks that had to make any Sox fan feel that 2005 was our year.
The first was the Saturday night game against the Dodgers, a turn back the clock game if I remember correctly, that found the Sox getting 3-hit for the first 8 innings only to be saved by AJ Pierzynski's walk-off HR with 2-out in the 9th. And the Sunday night ESPN game was more of the same, only different, with a couple of poorly fielded 8th inning bunts followed by a clutch hit from Aaron Rowand to provide the come-from-behind victory.
I can remember answering the phone after AJ's HR. I immediately knew who it was. My dad had managed to stay awake long enough to catch the end of the game. We agreed, "This team is specail."
This is really funny. I just went back to see what I wrote about the 4-run come-from-behind victory referenced above. Yep. I wrote about that game in 2000.
I've become Mariotti. A one-trick pony.
Phew, that was a close one. I didn't wistfully write about that 2000 game until a few days after the AJ walk-off. Here's the recap of that game.
I'm not sure that Monday's game quite reached the zenith of those other seminal moments, but the homestand taken as a whole might. The 15 inning game. The bullpen. Paul Konerko's walk-off. The awakening of Nick Swisher. The offense as a whole. It was quite possibly the most dominating homestand in White Sox history, certainly of my lifetime.
The division lead sits at 6.5 games. The offense finally appears to be clicking, while the pitching remains consistently awesome. And with 9 straight games against sub-.500 clubs, it's time for the Sox to put this thing away.
If they're able to continue their run, I might be penning wistful entries about the past week in the years to come.
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good work, cheat.
that pierzynski walkoff is such a fond memory for me. i can still picture myself talking to friends on the phone after the game as i watched wgn halfway across the country. there was an undefinable, yet palpable feeling that the 2005 white sox were not a normal team. that game is always the first one i think about when i try to put a date to that feeling. i could reminisce about that team all day.
fortunately, we got good stuff going on right now! i can’t say that this feels like a team of destiny yet, but i can say that this team has proven itself legit. what they are doing isn’t inexplicable. furthermore, it seems like they are starting to fire on all cylinders. how much fun is it to expect to win and then watch the sox do it?
They're gonna give daddy the Rain Man suite, you dig that?
by MarketMaker on Jun 10, 2008 3:11 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
seems like only yesterday...
i was reading that Furious Ozzie Guillen’s Lineup Card Full Of Expletives.
They're gonna give daddy the Rain Man suite, you dig that?
by MarketMaker on Jun 10, 2008 3:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
LOL
My favorite position is “designated fuckface”.
Too soon to call it over, BTW – as I recall, we nearly choked away our lead in 2005, which was somewhat uncomfortable down the stretch. So enjoy 2008’s monumental surprise and hold on – I’d be very surprised if we build a 10-15 game lead and don’t give most of it back at some point.
CWS: Slashing negative expectations since May, 2008.
by winningugly on Jun 10, 2008 5:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i seriously doubt it will be smooth sailing from here on out, but i like our chances of holding the 6.5+ game lead we are currently being spotted.
They're gonna give daddy the Rain Man suite, you dig that?
by MarketMaker on Jun 10, 2008 3:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That LA game was it for me too
and I said so at the time here. Even sweeter was the ex-Cub factor of it: Choi kind of half-assed it to the stands on a foul ball the previous pitch to AJ. Looked like he had a play if he’d hustled, and the game would have been over.
I cautioned “perspective” after the Rays series, I’ll do it again here. Yes, it appears the stars are alligning, but it was KC and Minnie.
Thoroughly enjoyable!
When she farts, a little rainbow comes out...
by Chiburb on Jun 10, 2008 4:40 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
OT - Monuments to Heroes, Or Where Has Harold Been?
From my Fantasy Camp guys, in an e-mail inviting us to a reunion 7/20/08 at The Cell:
Harold Baines sculpture unveiled
A life-sized sculpture of franchise legend and longtime fan favorite Harold Baines will be unveiled by the Chicago White Sox prior to the game. Baines becomes the seventh White Sox great immortalized in bronze at the ballpark. Baines and his family will participate in the unveiling of his sculpture before throwing out the ceremonial first pitch prior to the game.
Now I see where Harold was last week – he was posing for his sculpture.
CWS: Slashing negative expectations since May, 2008.
by winningugly on Jun 10, 2008 5:54 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
The Tigers are very, very down. We need to step on their throats
We need to step on their throats and sweep, certainly no worse than 2 of 3.
We need to pull a Tiger (Woods) on the Tigers.
Pitching, defense, health and 10 or more runs a game
by ballyb on Jun 10, 2008 6:50 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I don't think we "need" to, but it would be sweet.
When she farts, a little rainbow comes out...
by Chiburb on Jun 10, 2008 8:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Indeed!
I’m reading how Verlander and Rogers are “getting it together”. It would be perfect for the Sox to crush those two. Detroit may never recover.
"Still waking up in the mornings with shaking hands"
by thekever on Jun 10, 2008 8:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
We "need" to
Baseball is a wonderful, yet f*ed up game.
Didn’t the 2005 September division lead dip as low as 1.5 games?
So, just win baby!
"We're gonna bring it all day, everyday...we're gonna keep grinding it out." - Nick Swisher (4/1/08)
by tailgater on Jun 10, 2008 9:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
slowly I turn, step by step
2008 doesn’t yet have that “this team is special” moment for me. In 2005, it was there. This feels a little more like 2000, where you had to look at the math in order to believe.
I don’t know why its different. Probably because there hasn’t been much other competition in the division, and its only just now that the Sox are hitting their stride.
Another couple weeks of sustained good play, and I’ll start thinking about the playoff roster.. :)
Mosi Tatupu! Mosi Tatupu!
by Nordhagen on Jun 10, 2008 9:06 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, if we view this through the 2005 spectrum
we’re still in early May mode for me. I’m just starting to realize that maybe, just maybe, this team is for real. While acknowledging that the playoffs are now a real possibility, it will take a few more weeks of consistent hitting in addition to the pitching to start getting all 2005 giddy.
by chrome on Jun 10, 2008 9:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Waiting for giddy?
June 10th 2005-- 41-19 284 RS 224 RA Min 5/12 back
June 10th 2008—37-26 302 RS 232 RA Min 61/2 back
The SSS motto should be the answer to "What is our deepest fear?". Or maybe just Prozac.
by Tdogg on Jun 10, 2008 9:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, the "math" evidence is starting to pile up
its getting harder and harder to find data that gives reason to be less than very optimistic. And I’ll purposely ignore that data, if found… :)
approximations: if the Sox go about .500 the rest of the way, CLE or MIN would have to go about .600. Possible, but getting less likely all the time. The Twins REALLY hurt their playoff chances this weekend.
Mosi Tatupu! Mosi Tatupu!
by Nordhagen on Jun 10, 2008 9:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
We were overperforming in '05 (Pyth Theorem,36 - 24).
Underperforming this year (39 – 24).
Pitching, defense, health and 10 or more runs a game
by ballyb on Jun 10, 2008 10:15 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Haha.
Well, those are very good signs. I don’t really have a counterargument.
I’ve really enjoyed this run. I’ve enjoyed being humbled by Kenny and the Sox who have destroyed every preseason argument I made about them. Still, its relatively early, and I’ve got to try and ‘keep it real.’
The idea of making a run in the playoffs in a year when everyone thought it would be the Cubs is just to good to be true.
by chrome on Jun 10, 2008 10:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
...through the back window, i crept?
They're gonna give daddy the Rain Man suite, you dig that?
by MarketMaker on Jun 10, 2008 3:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why oh why oh why
Did I move to Colorado last summer? (Oh yeah, great job for Dr. Mrs. Joe.)
I remember the LA game well. We went with some friends to get the released season tickets, only to find out that there weren’t any (first time that happened to me since 2000). So, we went downtown, couldn’t get in anywhere, and decided to slum it at the Red Lobster on (I think) Ohio. I was plowing through Long Islands and cheese biscuits (when in Rome) when the last inning rolled around.
I will say, though, this gives me newfound respect for KW. He has now built two separate playoff-caliber pitching staffs within three years of each other—and only two of the pitchers have been on both.
by BridgeportJoe on Jun 10, 2008 9:52 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
but this one doesn't
http://www.mlb4u.com/profile.php?id=846
you win some, you lose some.
it's time to accept that we're powerless when it comes to the white sox and turn ourselves over to a higher power: KW
by larry on Jun 10, 2008 10:00 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Definitely not good...
Kenny is waiting for him to tear it up in AAA so he can trade him. Unfortunately, MacDougal is not helping his or the Sox situation.
by SSH2005 on Jun 10, 2008 10:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
forget him. sunk cost. he'll be released when he's out of options.
it's time to accept that we're powerless when it comes to the white sox and turn ourselves over to a higher power: KW
by larry on Jun 10, 2008 10:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah...doesn't matter....
if you would tell us that for next year we’d have Alexei and Thornton for about $4 mil combined (factoring in MacDougal’s salary)....we’d all be OK….
by stanchar on Jun 10, 2008 10:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
it's fine to make mistakes with the little contracts once in awhile
so long as you’re not making them with the big ones, too.
it's time to accept that we're powerless when it comes to the white sox and turn ourselves over to a higher power: KW
by larry on Jun 10, 2008 10:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
MacDougal's middle name is Meiklejohn (per that link).
Once again proving my theory: No one with the middle name Meiklejohn will ever pitch effectively in the 7th or 8th innings.
by The Actual El Guapo on Jun 10, 2008 11:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ozuna or Ensberg... who would you rather have on the bench?
Yankees released infielder Morgan Ensberg.
Ensberg was designated for assignment last week and the Yankees are eating his $1.75 million salary. Once among the most underrated players in baseball, Ensberg turns 33 years old in August and has hit just .225/.308/.371 in 143 games dating back to last season.
I say Fields.
by SSH2005 on Jun 10, 2008 10:08 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Wow. It seems like just
yesterday when I was being challenged for saying that the 2008 Sox would be competitive. They’re pretty competitive so far. Having said that, it’s a long, long, long season.
by palehose67 on Jun 10, 2008 10:09 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Well
There is a difference between “competitive” (say staying in the race until September and finishing around 80-85 wins) and winning the division with 90+ wins. That said, I certainly wasn’t prediciting anything more than mediocrity this year. Of course, I also thought Floyd and Count (and Count especially) were sure locks for ERAs over 5. So far not so much on those two guys.
by madvillian on Jun 10, 2008 10:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Thome's option is not picked up......
I wouldn’t be shocked if the Sox inked this guy….
by stanchar on Jun 10, 2008 10:09 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
if he's smart
he’ll choose the 20 (or whatever the # is in his contract) teams that are actually competitive still for his limited no-trade clause choices. and thus force any team that wants him to give him the big bucks in an extension.
it's time to accept that we're powerless when it comes to the white sox and turn ourselves over to a higher power: KW
by larry on Jun 10, 2008 10:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have been a fan of Dunn
For the past few years
The SSS motto should be the answer to "What is our deepest fear?". Or maybe just Prozac.
by Tdogg on Jun 10, 2008 10:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
if you're not a fan of him, you're a communist.
it's time to accept that we're powerless when it comes to the white sox and turn ourselves over to a higher power: KW
by larry on Jun 10, 2008 10:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
There have been plenty
(not here) mostly national, that have poo pooed his production and point to his defense and strikeouts
The SSS motto should be the answer to "What is our deepest fear?". Or maybe just Prozac.
by Tdogg on Jun 10, 2008 10:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
communists all.
it's time to accept that we're powerless when it comes to the white sox and turn ourselves over to a higher power: KW
by larry on Jun 10, 2008 10:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd give him 5 years...75 mil.....
let Thome walk
only two years left on PK deal….1 on JD…..
let OC walk…
Alexei at SS
sign Mark Ellis (yeah, I know slow start)....
Trade Bobby…..
by stanchar on Jun 10, 2008 10:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
2009 Opening day lineup....(why I can't live in the present I don't know)
2B Ellis
C AJ
LF Q
DH Dunn
1B PK
CF Swish
RF JD
3B Fields
SS Alexei
by stanchar on Jun 10, 2008 10:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
doing some quick and dirty calculations
if you assume that crede, thome, cabrera, ozuna, and uribe are all gone, and the payroll increases at a rate similar to the last few years, it looks to me like the sox will have about 20 million to spend on 4-5 spots (depending on whether loaiza sticks as the long man in the pen) on the 25-man roster in 2009. obviously fields will take over for crede at third and ramirez slides over to short, leaving the sox in need of a 2B, DH (or someone to take over in the field for konerko or dye), backup IF, and a 25th man.
the last two spots can be cheaply and pretty easily filled with low-end free agents or players already in the system. the question is whether richar can take over at 2B, which would leave enough money for dunn (i think 5/$75M sounds about right), or whether the sox will have to sign a free agent, which might not leave enough left in the kitty for dunn, especially if they buy out the pre-arb years for danks and/or quentin.
the best free agent options at 2B are ellis and orlando hudson. second tier guys would be iguchi, felipe lopez, and jerry hairston jr. after that it’s mostly old guys (kent, durham, grudzielanek, loretta), career backups (chris gomez, damion easley, miguel cairo), and the apparently washed up marcus giles.
the other option would be to forget dunn, leave ramirez at second, and spend the big bucks on rafael furcal. i’d rather spend it on dunn though.
by Ryno on Jun 10, 2008 11:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
also that possible 20 million could definitely go up....
as ticket sales for the remainder of 08 should be solid….
plus undoutedly Sox will offer post season rights to those who commit to buying ‘09 season tix….
forgot about o hudson….i like more than ellis actually i think.
by stanchar on Jun 10, 2008 11:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
though i like to watch rafael furcal play, i'm skeptical of the sox giving him a big contract.
They're gonna give daddy the Rain Man suite, you dig that?
by MarketMaker on Jun 10, 2008 3:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
trade Bobby for what?
He’s not a ree agent till 2011
The SSS motto should be the answer to "What is our deepest fear?". Or maybe just Prozac.
by Tdogg on Jun 10, 2008 10:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not sure....just think I'd rather trade him than pay him....
and perhaps while he’s still cheap we’d get more…..
by stanchar on Jun 10, 2008 10:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Get more what? Prospects?
Why create holes for the sake of creating holes? At some point people have to realize the Sox are a big market team with a $120 million dollar payroll.
There is more than enough time to make decisions on Jenks.
The SSS motto should be the answer to "What is our deepest fear?". Or maybe just Prozac.
by Tdogg on Jun 10, 2008 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
one might reasonably argue
that the white sox’ strength is the bullpen/pitching. of course, we’ve seen how quickly a strength can turn around (i.e., 2005 to 2006). at any rate, i’m rarely sold on a closer not being replaceable so i don’t think this is something the white sox should fail to consider.
it's time to accept that we're powerless when it comes to the white sox and turn ourselves over to a higher power: KW
by larry on Jun 10, 2008 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
come on now
I’m still getting over losing Matt Karchner…can’t seem to recall who the Sox got in return…
by southsideirish on Jun 10, 2008 10:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
lets see
92 wins, OrCa, some cash, and hopefully a couple of draft picks
Mosi Tatupu! Mosi Tatupu!
by Nordhagen on Jun 10, 2008 11:00 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
savory...
have to say, looking back the Sox have been pretty good with closers over the last two decades. Thigpen in the early 90’s, then Roberto Hernandez for five years…Simas (God I forgot about him) in 98, then Howry in 99. I remember not really understanding why they went from Howry to Foulke, Bob seemed to do a good job – just goes to show what I know. Really since 1990, I’d say that Simas in 98, when Foulke got hurt/had issues in 02, and the Billy Koch experiment in 03 were really the only bad patches.
by southsideirish on Jun 10, 2008 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No I get that and dont disagree
My point was there is time. There is also value in cheap effective pitching.
The SSS motto should be the answer to "What is our deepest fear?". Or maybe just Prozac.
by Tdogg on Jun 10, 2008 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes...get more prospects...
Assuming they all come to camp healthy….
I think a lot of teams wouldn’t mind a bullpen of Liney, Thornton, Dotel, Boone….
they’d need to add another arm….but it could come from within perhaps…Russell? Maybe even the 4th rounder from Penn State?
by stanchar on Jun 10, 2008 11:00 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
AGREED
"I would rather have a battalion of German soldiers in front of me than a platoon of French soldiers behind me."
by Where Triples Go to Die on Jun 10, 2008 2:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
TDOGG
"I would rather have a battalion of German soldiers in front of me than a platoon of French soldiers behind me."
by Where Triples Go to Die on Jun 10, 2008 2:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What are you trading Bobby for?
And who is going to close? Boone Logan? Aaron Poreda already ? Linebrink, Dotel, Thornton would already be closers at this point in their career if they could do it. I assume that means your going to sign one, Wood?
by Grinder in Training on Jun 10, 2008 12:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think every one you mention could be closers
All I care about is using pitchers optimally, not the order in which they come. If Poreda is being moved up to AA with those kinds of K rates, I think there’s at least a decent chance they see him as a closer already.
dude, that was totally not swish you saw on rush street last night. swish was at home playing xbox.
by colintj on Jun 10, 2008 12:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Linebrink, Dotel, Thornton would already be closers at this point in their career if they could do it."
We’ll MAKE ‘EM fucking closers.
Pitching, defense, health and 10 or more runs a game
by ballyb on Jun 10, 2008 1:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What are you trading Bobby for?
justin smoak!
The greatest trick the White Sox ever pulled was convincing their fan base that "Ozzieball" ever existed.
by The Wizard on Jun 10, 2008 1:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It took me a while to be convinced
by the 2005 team, but those 8 game runs just felt like magic. Right now I’m looking for something with the same feel. We might put our division out of reach, but I want another chance against the Rays and I want to see how we stack up against the Red Sox and Yankees. There aren’t that many good teams in the AL this year and there really aren’t any complete teams in the NL. I want to make the leap from skeptical to convinced and I need to catch more games.
dude, that was totally not swish you saw on rush street last night. swish was at home playing xbox.
by colintj on Jun 10, 2008 10:34 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
What does this team need at the deadline?
The bullpen looks solid and set, especially if Loaiza can show anything (which may be unlikely). The lineup is likely set—there’s really no spot to improve other than 2B if Ramirez starts slumping. So the main improvements that Kenny has to make are to the bench.
by SSH2005 on Jun 10, 2008 10:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sox are in an odd position
I am also fully on the bandwagon, but the team is constructed in a way where there isn’t much room for movement. Maybe this really will be like 05, and all this team needs is a move like Geoff Blum…
by Tony82087 on Jun 10, 2008 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn't mind a big bat on the bench
But Fields could fill that role if you DFA Ozuna.
Both feet on the bandwagon.
by vince_ on Jun 10, 2008 1:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
As much as it pains me to say it
The Cubs are a measuring stick this year – they are as complete a team in the NL as you are going to find, and we get six games to see where we stack up against them.
Personally, I think it will be a very interesting series. The best hitting in MLB going up against the best pitching in MLB. Unstoppable force, meet immovable object.
Both feet on the bandwagon.
by vince_ on Jun 10, 2008 1:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Starting pitching.
Zambrano - Stud, but makeup issues.
Dempster - .220 BABIP.
Lilly - 5.23 ERA this year, 19 runs in last 27 innings.
Marquis & Gallagher - who knows.
Hill—18 BB in 21 innings in Iowa.
Lots of ifs, if you ask me.
Pitching, defense, health and 10 or more runs a game
by ballyb on Jun 10, 2008 2:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yet somehow they are 4th in ERA in MLB
and 5th in MLB in runs allowed/G
I’d take our pitching staff over theirs in a heartbeat, particularly since Lou is overusing Marmol and Wood and I think one of the two (most likely Wood) will break down in the 2nd half.
Is 40% of the season a fluke?
Both feet on the bandwagon.
by vince_ on Jun 10, 2008 3:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
COLIN
Don’t put too much stock in that series against the rays… we are pitiful in domes this year.
"I would rather have a battalion of German soldiers in front of me than a platoon of French soldiers behind me."
by Where Triples Go to Die on Jun 10, 2008 2:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So?
Give me a reason that it would be such.
dude, that was totally not swish you saw on rush street last night. swish was at home playing xbox.
by colintj on Jun 10, 2008 2:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
let's see
the sox have a losing record only against four teams: the yankees, the rays, the jays, and the angels. there’s something all those teams have in common….
it's time to accept that we're powerless when it comes to the white sox and turn ourselves over to a higher power: KW
by larry on Jun 10, 2008 2:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
they're good?
dude, that was totally not swish you saw on rush street last night. swish was at home playing xbox.
by colintj on Jun 10, 2008 2:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i was thinking something a bit more objective than that
but close enough. the orioles are the only team at .500 or above that the sox have a winning record against. it’s early, sure, and there ain’t a thing wrong with abusing the little guys, especially within your own division. but it would certainly seal the deal to see the sox beat some legit teams.
it's time to accept that we're powerless when it comes to the white sox and turn ourselves over to a higher power: KW
by larry on Jun 10, 2008 2:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i should note, in all fairness
the sox have only faced the jays and the rays away.
it's time to accept that we're powerless when it comes to the white sox and turn ourselves over to a higher power: KW
by larry on Jun 10, 2008 2:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i KNEW it was the dome!
When she farts, a little rainbow comes out...
by Chiburb on Jun 10, 2008 2:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i keep forgetting to actually write this out
but yeah. i want to beat some good teams before we start anointing ourselves in oils.
dude, that was totally not swish you saw on rush street last night. swish was at home playing xbox.
by colintj on Jun 10, 2008 2:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
indeed.
the sox have played only 16 games (~ 25%) against teams currently sitting with winning records through ~60-65 games (granted the twins were over .500 when the sweep series began) and are 7-9 (3-4 v. TB; 3-4 v. LAA; 1-1 v. OAK).
that being said, of the 98 games left (not including the baltimore makeup) only 26 are against teams currently better than .500 (7 v. BOS, 3 v. TB, 3 v. LAA, 7 v. OAK, 6 v. cubs).
Half Dome is my bitch. Shasta is next.
by Toonderstrook on Jun 10, 2008 2:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
They have an "a" in their name?
Pitching, defense, health and 10 or more runs a game
by ballyb on Jun 10, 2008 2:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
white sox, cubs to reach world series
cubs win in six. cubbie pogrom to ensue.
http://baseballplayoffsnow.blogspot.com/2008/06/all-chicago-world-series-taken-to-6.html
it's time to accept that we're powerless when it comes to the white sox and turn ourselves over to a higher power: KW
by larry on Jun 10, 2008 10:37 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Hm.
I don’t see the White Sox finishing with the best record in the AL.
Although I’m about two weeks away from admitting that they might be the best team in the AL Central.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jun 10, 2008 10:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
lol
Dude you crack me up.
The SSS motto should be the answer to "What is our deepest fear?". Or maybe just Prozac.
by Tdogg on Jun 10, 2008 10:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yesterday...
was actually the first time that I realised that I had some confidence in this team. When the Twins went up 3-1, I didn’t have the familiar “game over” feeling I used to have.
But this is an extremely shallow franchise, and that still has me worried. The huge gap between the starting nine and their potential replacements is a potential Achilles heel.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jun 10, 2008 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What exactly do you expect to happen in the next 2 weeks
That will make you admit the Sox are the best team in Central? A showdown with Cubs? 9 games vs Detroit, Pitts and Col? Its like in this whole process you pick at the Sox’s weaknesses and never acknowledge the real trouble with their division competition. You can’t evaulate their chances in a vacuum.
The SSS motto should be the answer to "What is our deepest fear?". Or maybe just Prozac.
by Tdogg on Jun 10, 2008 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I still think...
the Indians have a big run in them – they’re better than this.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jun 10, 2008 11:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I do agree with this
They should have the pitching staff. A hot hitting streak and another arm in the pen and they’re there.
dude, that was totally not swish you saw on rush street last night. swish was at home playing xbox.
by colintj on Jun 10, 2008 11:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thats not answering the question
And its not because I don’t like the answer. Okay the Indians are better than they have played (check). They have a big run in them (check.) Does that make them better than the 08 White Sox?
They dont hit better. They dont field better. Bullpen worse. Starting pitching? Oh yes starting pitching. Well they certainly have depth and CC. No doubt there. But Westbrook’s gone. Carmona’s not back until early July. If you still want to give them the edge. Fine. Though that is very debatable (performance and FIPS)
We are 1/3 third thru the season. Teams come back from shambles but there are normally indicators that point to it.
Just as there were (dispute popular belief) indicators that White Sox were a lot better off than folks thought when they fell 2 games under.
Those odds (and they are just odds) are high for a good reason.
The SSS motto should be the answer to "What is our deepest fear?". Or maybe just Prozac.
by Tdogg on Jun 10, 2008 12:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not sure that the Indians are better...
at least not any more, but they might be. There are indicators that they should be better (like their 33-31 Pythag record, for one). Except for Sizemore, all their bats are ice-cold – they’ll start hitting sooner or later.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jun 10, 2008 12:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
are you suggesting that there aren't "indicators" that point to the indians contending?
how about a team performing 4 games under their pythag? how about applying the same logic that you (and i) applied to white sox hitting? you think martinez is going to continue hitting 40 points (!) below his career OPS+?
it's time to accept that we're powerless when it comes to the white sox and turn ourselves over to a higher power: KW
by larry on Jun 10, 2008 12:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Certainly. Apply it.
The Indians bats will get better. But how much? Let me ask again. Where is all this trending that makes them BETTER than the White Sox? I am not arguing the Indians will not get better or finish above .500. Im saying stop with this “o the Indians might be better, because the world chose them at the start of the season.”
The SSS motto should be the answer to "What is our deepest fear?". Or maybe just Prozac.
by Tdogg on Jun 10, 2008 12:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
what the heck is this "trending"?
i don’t understand what that means or what efficacy it has here. jre and i provided answers. if that’s not good enough for you, leave it.
it's time to accept that we're powerless when it comes to the white sox and turn ourselves over to a higher power: KW
by larry on Jun 10, 2008 12:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Only Sox hitters can get A LOT better...
Indians hitters just get a mild increase offensively because they have a racist logo.
by SSH2005 on Jun 10, 2008 12:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not saying I necessarily disagree 100%,
but do the Indians really look scary? Their lineup is kind of a shambles: No 2B or 3B, no corner outfielders, average at best at 1B. Beyond Sizemore and maybe Martinez (btw, say what you want about The Cliff Lee Rennaissance, the single most surprising stat in the AL this year IMO is 0 HR for Martinez through June 10), who really makes up for that?
Starting pitching? Well, maybe, but beyond CC (who I suspect will continue to get significantly better), who is all that great? Carmona is hurt for the next few weeks at least, and I suspect the Indians won’t ride him hard down the stretch, particularly if it looks like a lost cause. Beyond that, you have C. Lee, Byrd and (I guess) Sowers/Laffey. Meh.
Bullpens are a crap shoot, and this year certainly looks like a down year for the Indians. They continue to keep Borrowski around for reasons that are mysterious to everyone but them.
To the extent I am concerned about anyone, Detroit looks like the bigger threat to me. Their lineup (outside of LF and C) remains somewhat intimidating.
by The Actual El Guapo on Jun 10, 2008 12:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
except
the indians can – and very likely will, assuming they don’t totally collapse – be adding to their team. unlike detroit, they have parts to trade.
it's time to accept that we're powerless when it comes to the white sox and turn ourselves over to a higher power: KW
by larry on Jun 10, 2008 12:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I totally disagree with this statement
Parts yes. More likely? No. Detroit is all in. And I agree Actaul El, currently Detroit scares me more than Cleveland. When I really looked at all factors objectively and what they will prob add.
The SSS motto should be the answer to "What is our deepest fear?". Or maybe just Prozac.
by Tdogg on Jun 10, 2008 12:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
another bet you'd lose. unless you're saying the tigers will be adding to their minor league teams when they start dumping players next month.
it's time to accept that we're powerless when it comes to the white sox and turn ourselves over to a higher power: KW
by larry on Jun 10, 2008 12:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lets not tally all the predictions there Larry
But we’ll see. I am a very good poker player and Detroit is a whole lot more pot committed.
The SSS motto should be the answer to "What is our deepest fear?". Or maybe just Prozac.
by Tdogg on Jun 10, 2008 12:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
don't really agree
this isn’t poker. you can take your chips back out and trade them.
it's time to accept that we're powerless when it comes to the white sox and turn ourselves over to a higher power: KW
by larry on Jun 10, 2008 12:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
and just to add on
they’re committed sure. but, perhaps somewhat like the 2007 white sox, they’re not exactly committed to just this year – those contracts extend into the future, except with respect to ivan, iirc. the smart move may well just be sell off a few extraneous parts with not much contract left, like a kenny rogers or a renteria, and write this year off as an aberration and come back for 2009.
it's time to accept that we're powerless when it comes to the white sox and turn ourselves over to a higher power: KW
by larry on Jun 10, 2008 1:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who said anything about smart
I am in Michigan twice a month, reading their paper and listening to their shows. They are very unlikely to sell off. And they actually have “real” relievers returning and feel like they have the cold bat problem.
The SSS motto should be the answer to "What is our deepest fear?". Or maybe just Prozac.
by Tdogg on Jun 10, 2008 1:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
because reading newspapers and listening to shows is the best way to gauge what a team should or will do
dave dombrowski isn’t dumb, despite what you seem to think. and neither is their owner. dombrowski’s not going to waste resources in a futile attempt to salvage a .500 season. their bats aren’t cold. they’re one of the top ranked offenses in the league and, if you drop out the time period when they actually were “cold”, they’re probably at the top. it’s the pitching, stupid. and it ain’t the relief pitching. they don’t have the starters to compete.
it's time to accept that we're powerless when it comes to the white sox and turn ourselves over to a higher power: KW
by larry on Jun 10, 2008 1:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Did I say that?
I like Dombrowski but he’s not infallible. I tried to give you info on the mindset up there. I have no idea what’s in Dave’s mind. But to imply Gm’s dont hear or care what is going around them is simply not true.
The SSS motto should be the answer to "What is our deepest fear?". Or maybe just Prozac.
by Tdogg on Jun 10, 2008 1:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
then why did you make a snide remark about "smart"
and if you were in chicago two times a month reading the newspapers here and listening to talk radio, you’d think ozzie guillen was about to be fired and this team was in turmoil.
it's time to accept that we're powerless when it comes to the white sox and turn ourselves over to a higher power: KW
by larry on Jun 10, 2008 1:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It wasnt to be snide about Dave
It was to imply not every decision from the gm perspective is considered the “smartest” or best course of action. Its entirely possible Detroit does nothing or the complete opposite. But you have the 2nd highest payroll. 4 million in ticket sales. Fans don’t take kindly to “fuck it”. No I’d put my money on Detroit overturning every stone. The White Sox go up there and sweep. Then maybe reality sets in. But even still it would be hard.
The SSS motto should be the answer to "What is our deepest fear?". Or maybe just Prozac.
by Tdogg on Jun 10, 2008 1:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
the majority of fans tend to realize when things are over. there were idiots in chicago, too, who were complaining about the white sox trading iguchi at the deadline because they thought things could still be “turned around.” the tigers are dead and buried. the GM knows it, certainly after he saw willis implode yesterday. by the time the horse trading begins in earnest next month the tigers will be in the same position they are now. just like they were in the same position last month.
it's time to accept that we're powerless when it comes to the white sox and turn ourselves over to a higher power: KW
by larry on Jun 10, 2008 1:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Which is why they will be "sellers" in July.
CWS: Slashing negative expectations since May, 2008.
by winningugly on Jun 10, 2008 1:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you conflated what the fans/writers/coaches are thinking
and what Dombrowski is thinking.
dude, that was totally not swish you saw on rush street last night. swish was at home playing xbox.
by colintj on Jun 10, 2008 1:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well I hear the fans and read the writers
I have heard Leyand interviewed many times. I have even heard Dave a couple times. If I overstated things I apologize.
The SSS motto should be the answer to "What is our deepest fear?". Or maybe just Prozac.
by Tdogg on Jun 10, 2008 1:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's just a matter of accepting
that Dombrowski can only honestly admit so much and that fan/coach perceptions aren’t necessarily indicative of Dombrowski’s thinking either.
dude, that was totally not swish you saw on rush street last night. swish was at home playing xbox.
by colintj on Jun 11, 2008 3:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think it's pretty obvious that he will trade Kenny Rogers...
That’s a freaking no-brainer.
by SSH2005 on Jun 10, 2008 1:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with you larry
It makes the most sense, imo, for Detroit to start shipping current parts for future productivity…if they can. They’ve got Cabrera and Granderson locked up and that’s an elite CF and 1B for the foreseeable future. But what else? The farm is empty. The value on their old assets is going to tank rapidly, as they’ve already seen with Sheffield and Pudge. They should probably move one of Guillen or Maggs, especially if the Angels realize they don’t have a DH.
dude, that was totally not swish you saw on rush street last night. swish was at home playing xbox.
by colintj on Jun 10, 2008 1:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i think they'll just stand pat for the most part
send away rogers and a few other spare parts of nominal note and write off this year, rightly or wrongly, to bad luck, bad start, bad whatever. and they’ll be quite aggressive in the free agent market. if cc is there, expect a bidding war between the yankees and tigers. or go after garland. or dunn. or f-rod. or pedro. or basically anyone of value.
it's time to accept that we're powerless when it comes to the white sox and turn ourselves over to a higher power: KW
by larry on Jun 10, 2008 1:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rogers will definitely be traded...
I think they would still like to trade Inge but after his hot start, his numbers are back to shit, and no team will want him.
by SSH2005 on Jun 10, 2008 1:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
so 2009 would be the last stand?
they are really going to have to make a stand. is Illitch really going to trust Dombrowski to spend even more after what happened last year? i don’t really know much about him as an owner outside of how he operated the Red Wings. they were basically the Yankees of hockey until the new CBA, so i suppose he might.
dude, that was totally not swish you saw on rush street last night. swish was at home playing xbox.
by colintj on Jun 10, 2008 1:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
that's certainly the decision
but they’ve got to think, at least at this point, that the offense isn’t the problem. and if zumaya and rodney come back strongly, they’ve got to think the bullpen isn’t the problem (though a legit closer would help, see above re: f-rod. and others are available so one could do a white sox-esque rebuild). it’s the starting pitching. take cc away from the indians and put him on your team. hell, come up trumps with both cc and garland or sheets or something and you’re really talking.
it's time to accept that we're powerless when it comes to the white sox and turn ourselves over to a higher power: KW
by larry on Jun 10, 2008 1:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
True,
and that could obviously change things dramatically. But as currently constructed, I’m not sure how much better they look than, say, the Twins (who actually also have some decent parts to trade).
Btw, if you give the Indians credit for 4 more wins based on Pythag, don’t you have to give the Sox 2 games too? So the lead by Pythag over Cleveland is 6.5 rather than 8.5. Still not bad.
Certainly not meaning to get on a soap box about this, but I suspect that part of the newfound and very un-Sox-fan-like optimism around these parts lately is due to the perceived weakness of the competition. Hugely ironic, given the pre-season expectations, of course.
And having said all this, if the Sox lose 2 in a row to the Tigers … FIRE WALKER, URIBE IS FAT, DFA SWISHER, AIIEEEE!!!
by The Actual El Guapo on Jun 10, 2008 12:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think that's definitely it.
If the Indians and Tigers were playing as well as people thought they would, the White Sox would be a few games back and a lot closer to .500 than they are.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jun 10, 2008 12:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think that's the point
The Sox have killed the Central so far this year.
dude, that was totally not swish you saw on rush street last night. swish was at home playing xbox.
by colintj on Jun 10, 2008 1:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sound familiar? It should.
CWS: Slashing negative expectations since May, 2008.
by winningugly on Jun 10, 2008 1:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why aren't we using 3rd order Pythag?
In that scenario, the Sox lose a win and the Indians pick one up. The Tigers pick up 3 and the Twins drop 4, if I round down.
dude, that was totally not swish you saw on rush street last night. swish was at home playing xbox.
by colintj on Jun 10, 2008 1:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because using such data
or trends or indicators doesnt contribute to the efficacy of the conversation!
The SSS motto should be the answer to "What is our deepest fear?". Or maybe just Prozac.
by Tdogg on Jun 10, 2008 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, because regression is a "trend" that tdogg apparently does not include in his definition of "trending"
it's time to accept that we're powerless when it comes to the white sox and turn ourselves over to a higher power: KW
by larry on Jun 10, 2008 1:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you both are confusing me
let’s just agree to disagree and then see who can make Juan Uribe look the most convincingly skinny on photoshop.
dude, that was totally not swish you saw on rush street last night. swish was at home playing xbox.
by colintj on Jun 10, 2008 1:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
see who can make Juan Uribe look the most convincingly skinny on photoshop.
that’s physically impossible; like going faster than the speed of light!
The greatest trick the White Sox ever pulled was convincing their fan base that "Ozzieball" ever existed.
by The Wizard on Jun 10, 2008 2:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You ever see Juan move towards the buffet?
Neither can anyone else, so it is possible to go faster than the speed of light!
by Brush Back on Jun 10, 2008 2:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Need one of thse carnival mirrors.
Pitching, defense, health and 10 or more runs a game
by ballyb on Jun 10, 2008 3:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I include it all the way around.
Im liberal on some stuff and conservative on things. Things change. And I try not to let my initial feelings or thoughts cloud my overall judgement on an evolving process. Like who I picked at the beginning of the season.
The SSS motto should be the answer to "What is our deepest fear?". Or maybe just Prozac.
by Tdogg on Jun 10, 2008 1:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Great thread.
“efficacy” used twice.
ef·fi·ca·cy Audio Help /ˈɛfɪkəsi/ Pronunciation Key – Show Spelled Pronunciation[ef-i-kuh-see] Pronunciation Key – Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun, plural -cies.
capacity for producing a desired result or effect; effectiveness: a remedy of great efficacy.
Pitching, defense, health and 10 or more runs a game
by ballyb on Jun 10, 2008 3:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
FIRE WALKER, URIBE IS FAT, DFA SWISHER, AIIEEEE!!!
AND BRING UP OWENS!!!
The greatest trick the White Sox ever pulled was convincing their fan base that "Ozzieball" ever existed.
by The Wizard on Jun 10, 2008 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
"AND BRING UP OWENS!!!"
If you paid attention to the above discussion, GMs and owners pay attention to their fans.
STFU.
Pitching, defense, health and 10 or more runs a game
by ballyb on Jun 10, 2008 3:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
AND THE FANS WANT OWENS
SO WHAT HE’S HITTING .200? SPEED NEVER SLUMPS BABY!
The greatest trick the White Sox ever pulled was convincing their fan base that "Ozzieball" ever existed.
by The Wizard on Jun 10, 2008 3:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Be careful.
Last 10 games he’s batting .375 w/ a .457 OBP.
Pitching, defense, health and 10 or more runs a game
by ballyb on Jun 11, 2008 1:00 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Small sample size
(please).
CWS: Slashing negative expectations since May, 2008.
by winningugly on Jun 11, 2008 1:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
twins
are better than both of those teams.
"I would rather have a battalion of German soldiers in front of me than a platoon of French soldiers behind me."
by Where Triples Go to Die on Jun 10, 2008 2:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You may very well be right.
by The Actual El Guapo on Jun 10, 2008 2:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The team is in a good position to make do if somthing happens to one of the big guys.
Fields and Swish actually make for a decent amount of flexibility and probably equal that of most teams in a similar position. Who would Boston bring in to fit in a corner spot? The Angels would bring in Brandon Wood. The Rays have no one but they also are the least likely to have to make such a move.
dude, that was totally not swish you saw on rush street last night. swish was at home playing xbox.
by colintj on Jun 10, 2008 11:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
the red sox don't need to bring in someone
because they already have sean casey.
it's time to accept that we're powerless when it comes to the white sox and turn ourselves over to a higher power: KW
by larry on Jun 10, 2008 11:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is it that shallow?
How many teams have Loaiza as a number 6 ? How many teams have an all star sitting on their bench, not many. This isn’t basketball, there are no sixth men who should be all stars.
How many teams have Josh Fields waiting in the wings to take over for the first injury? Brian Anderson, Juan Uribe those guys are not great major league starters, but that’s a good bench. They can both start for a month and not kill the team. The Bullpen is as thick as any others in the majors. At the start of the season I’d have agreed with you, but it looks like a pretty solid team to me.
Richar, Fields, Owens all have major league experience sitting in AAA, Anderson, Uribe, Hall were all major league starters at one point in their careers. Pablo still sucks, but he’s the 25th man, who cares?
by Grinder in Training on Jun 10, 2008 12:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Josh Fields and Danny Richar...
are both coming off of injury, and have both been spotty in their effectiveness. Jerry Owens is not a major-league ballplayer.
The main problem is that the Sox don’t have the pieces to trade for a good player if someone goes down. What you see is what you get.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jun 10, 2008 12:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sometimes you don't need pieces.
Sometimes you need money or be willing to take it on short term. Trade time always has smaller pieces teams are willing to move for little. The Sox can’t get a Roberts or CC type but a great backup or avg player? Probably.
The SSS motto should be the answer to "What is our deepest fear?". Or maybe just Prozac.
by Tdogg on Jun 10, 2008 12:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i think josh has gotten over his spottiness
it's time to accept that we're powerless when it comes to the white sox and turn ourselves over to a higher power: KW
by larry on Jun 10, 2008 12:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Poreda, Broadway, Egbert. etc...
We have attractive pitching to trade like we always do.
"I would rather have a battalion of German soldiers in front of me than a platoon of French soldiers behind me."
by Where Triples Go to Die on Jun 10, 2008 2:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Entirely possible for best record
I still think Bosox are the better team but facing Tampa, Toronto and NY can definitely put a dent in the W column for them
The SSS motto should be the answer to "What is our deepest fear?". Or maybe just Prozac.
by Tdogg on Jun 10, 2008 10:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
cubs sweeping their way to the world series... i don't like this.
They're gonna give daddy the Rain Man suite, you dig that?
by MarketMaker on Jun 10, 2008 3:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
As a trader you don't fight the trend, right?
100 years of misery is a pretty good trend. Trust your Maker to keep all the Universe in proper sequence.
CWS: Slashing negative expectations since May, 2008.
by winningugly on Jun 10, 2008 3:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you don't want to see what kind of shit i've been doing, lately. i'm fighting everything.
They're gonna give daddy the Rain Man suite, you dig that?
by MarketMaker on Jun 10, 2008 4:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hear you
CWS: Slashing negative expectations since May, 2008.
by winningugly on Jun 10, 2008 4:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Congratulations...
to the Birmingham Barons, who clinched the Southern League, Southern Division, first-half title with a 4-3 victory over Montgomery last night.
David Cook went 2-for-4 and drove in three of the Barons’ four runs.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jun 10, 2008 10:48 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Sweet Jeebus that team has no talent at all
dude, that was totally not swish you saw on rush street last night. swish was at home playing xbox.
by colintj on Jun 10, 2008 11:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Untrue.
David Cook is probably too old to be a prospect, but he’s been a force offensively.
After an awful start, Cole Armstrong has been great for the past few weeks. He might make something of himself after all.
Clayton Richard and Carlos Torres are both legitimate pitching prospects, even if they’re low-ceiling prospects.
Derek Rodriguez and John Link are both fringy relief prospects, too.
So, while there’s probably not much in terms of future major-leaguers down there, there is some talent.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jun 10, 2008 11:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
so, basically, there's no talent in baseball vernacular.
it's time to accept that we're powerless when it comes to the white sox and turn ourselves over to a higher power: KW
by larry on Jun 10, 2008 11:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So why keep the doors open?
Entertainment for the masses in B’ham is one thing, but aren’t we supposed to see some of these guys matriculating to the Bigs someday, Jer?
CWS: Slashing negative expectations since May, 2008.
by winningugly on Jun 10, 2008 12:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i suggested earlier this year closing birmingham in a cost-cutting move
streamlining, eliminating redundancies, and so on.
it's time to accept that we're powerless when it comes to the white sox and turn ourselves over to a higher power: KW
by larry on Jun 10, 2008 12:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
hawk wants to take it a step further...
The greatest trick the White Sox ever pulled was convincing their fan base that "Ozzieball" ever existed.
by The Wizard on Jun 10, 2008 2:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well...
like I said, I think that Richard, Armstrong, and Torres have a shot at reaching the majors someday. We’ll see.
But it’s nice for them to have a playoff berth, even if nobody in Chicago cares.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jun 10, 2008 12:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
and pretty soon
our #1 prospect will be arriving in B’ham
by bhoov on Jun 10, 2008 12:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The King and his Court?
CWS: Slashing negative expectations since May, 2008.
by winningugly on Jun 10, 2008 1:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Beckham is presumed signed at this point
we should probably start thinking about him as the #1. Technically you’re right though.
dude, that was totally not swish you saw on rush street last night. swish was at home playing xbox.
by colintj on Jun 10, 2008 1:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
and that's as good as we have at AA.
i think this makes my point.
dude, that was totally not swish you saw on rush street last night. swish was at home playing xbox.
by colintj on Jun 10, 2008 1:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
wu, what up with the new sig? no longer taking the under? and forcing slash on us? you're a real snake in the grass, you know that?
They're gonna give daddy the Rain Man suite, you dig that?
by MarketMaker on Jun 10, 2008 4:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Changed it Sunday
Don’t like “Giving the Cuban Necktie to negative expectations….” blah, blah. Too wordy.
So let me guess – short oil/POT, long banks/AIG?
CWS: Slashing negative expectations since May, 2008.
by winningugly on Jun 10, 2008 4:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
makeup game yesterday
I think that turned out to be a pretty good rainout in April. I think the original matchup was going to be Livan (who had started out great) vs. Contreras (who hadn’t). Instead, the Sox get to play the makeup while on a roll.
Mosi Tatupu! Mosi Tatupu!
by Nordhagen on Jun 10, 2008 11:15 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Orioles game
Isn’t there that game left to finish too?
by shaftr on Jun 10, 2008 11:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yup.
They’ll pick it up in the 12th, tied at 3.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jun 10, 2008 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
august 25 in baltimore
it's time to accept that we're powerless when it comes to the white sox and turn ourselves over to a higher power: KW
by larry on Jun 10, 2008 11:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So the White Sox...
will be the “home” team in that makeup, right? So there’s a good chance we could see a walkoff in the other team’s park.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jun 10, 2008 11:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hope not
but I am not sure what is worse… getting buried by 10 runs or losing to a walk-off. Both are tough to over come.
"I would rather have a battalion of German soldiers in front of me than a platoon of French soldiers behind me."
by Where Triples Go to Die on Jun 10, 2008 1:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
We are the home team
Why wouldn’t you want to see a walk off? That means we win.
by Grinder in Training on Jun 10, 2008 1:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
ha ha ha. reading comprehension... who's cross to bear was that?
They're gonna give daddy the Rain Man suite, you dig that?
by MarketMaker on Jun 10, 2008 4:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
tonight's game
Matchup: White Sox (37-26) at Tigers (26-37), 7:05 p.m. ET
Probable Starters: Jose Contreras (81 2/3 IP, 2.87 RA, 1.04 WHIP, 50 K) vs. Nate Robertson (71 2/3, 6.03, 1.54, 49)
Pythagorean Record: Chicago, 39-24 (305 RS, 235 RA); Detroit, 29-34 (293 RS, 320 RA)
Hit List Rankings: Chicago, #7; Detroit, #24
Prospectus: After losing the final three matches of a four-game series in Tampa Bay (inspiring another Ozzie meltdown), Chicago has returned home to win seven in a row, sweeping the Royals and the Twins to extend its lead in the AL Central to 6.5 games. The White Sox averaged 8.7 runs scored per game during the streak. Perhaps the best news is that Nick Swisher put together several huge games in a row for the first time this season, with a two-homer performance yesterday and seven hits in his last 10 at-bats. Swisher is finally beginning to show the power that made him a sleeper candidate for a 40-homer campaign before the start of the season. Second baseman Alexei Ramirez has also continued to rake since replacing Juan Uribe at the keystone. From the point that he entered the starting lineup on May 16, Ramirez has hit .365/.396/.565, and the White Sox have scored 5.2 runs/game with an 825 OPS, as opposed to 3.7 with a 695 in the 21 previous games. The Sox have become a legitimate contender for the division title, and now have the best shot of any team in baseball at making the playoffs, 89 percent.
A huge part of Chicago’s success this season has been the pitching of Contreras, who entered last night’s game ranked second in the AL in SNLVAR following a stretch of six straight quality starts. Contreras has been nearly three times as valuable this year in 12 starts than he was last year in 30, per SNLVAR. Contreras is succeeding by generating far more groundballs than he ever has before-his ground-ball/fly-ball ratio is a robust 2.44, which is just about double his career average entering 2008 of 1.23. Contreras’s newfound ground-ball acumen is reflected in his homer rate: he has given up 0.3 HR/9 compared to his career average of 1.1 entering 2008. A glance at the pitch data offers an explanation for the Cuban’s renaissance-he is throwing far fewer fastballs, bringing the heat about 50 percent of the time compared with 56 percent last year and 62 the year before, and is substituting in more sliders, a pitch that he is throwing nearly twice as often this year than in 2006. Contreras has also bumped up his use of the splitter. It appears that increased reliance on breaking stuff has contributed to more ground-balls and a career year.
it's time to accept that we're powerless when it comes to the white sox and turn ourselves over to a higher power: KW
by larry on Jun 10, 2008 11:58 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
he's also bumped up use of the forkball
like the splitter, but with more pride…
Mosi Tatupu! Mosi Tatupu!
by Nordhagen on Jun 10, 2008 12:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Splitter =\= Forkball :(
Damnit Caleb.
dude, that was totally not swish you saw on rush street last night. swish was at home playing xbox.
by colintj on Jun 10, 2008 12:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is Contreras
the only pitcher that throws the forkball anymore?
by sti3 on Jun 10, 2008 1:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
wang throws one, iirc
it's time to accept that we're powerless when it comes to the white sox and turn ourselves over to a higher power: KW
by larry on Jun 10, 2008 1:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
FREDDY GARCIA
"I would rather have a battalion of German soldiers in front of me than a platoon of French soldiers behind me."
by Where Triples Go to Die on Jun 10, 2008 1:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
no?
pretty sure he doesn’t and didn’t.
dude, that was totally not swish you saw on rush street last night. swish was at home playing xbox.
by colintj on Jun 10, 2008 1:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
How else were we able to trade him?
He developed a forkball in the final months of 06’.
"I would rather have a battalion of German soldiers in front of me than a platoon of French soldiers behind me."
by Where Triples Go to Die on Jun 10, 2008 1:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That seems unlikely.
But he did throw a splitter, iirc, so maybe that experience enabled him to work out a forkball too.
dude, that was totally not swish you saw on rush street last night. swish was at home playing xbox.
by colintj on Jun 10, 2008 1:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Was it a splitter or a fork ball?
You may be right… Did if he had the splitter his whole career then he developed the FB late in 06 when he almost no-hit the angels. He developed one of those pitches though and it made the drop in his velocity not look as alarming.
"I would rather have a battalion of German soldiers in front of me than a platoon of French soldiers behind me."
by Where Triples Go to Die on Jun 10, 2008 1:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can't remember and we don't have pitch f/x for that year.
So…anyone else remember? Cheat or larry? Buehler?
dude, that was totally not swish you saw on rush street last night. swish was at home playing xbox.
by colintj on Jun 10, 2008 1:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Larry
which pitch did Freddy start throwing at the end of 06? Larry will know.
"I would rather have a battalion of German soldiers in front of me than a platoon of French soldiers behind me."
by Where Triples Go to Die on Jun 10, 2008 1:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
split finger
it's time to accept that we're powerless when it comes to the white sox and turn ourselves over to a higher power: KW
by larry on Jun 10, 2008 1:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Elroy Face had a great forkball
But do you know who fooled around with it during warmups, and could’ve pitched if he wanted to?
CWS: Slashing negative expectations since May, 2008.
by winningugly on Jun 10, 2008 1:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yaz got to be kidding me! He taught it to Face.
When she farts, a little rainbow comes out...
by Chiburb on Jun 10, 2008 1:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
to add...
You literally squirt the ball from between your index and middle fingers to achieve the effect. My dad threw it differently than Contreras, mainly I assume because of the difference in finger size. He can throw it over the top with the palm out toward the batter. Pops, on the other hand, actually showed the back of his hand like a curve and squirted it through with his thumb. It’s not easy to describe, so I hope that helps.
dude, that was totally not swish you saw on rush street last night. swish was at home playing xbox.
by colintj on Jun 10, 2008 1:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
There are different ways to throw it obviously...
but the biggest difference is in the placement of the pitchers thumb… You can tuck your thumb under the ball or have your thumb on the outside of the ball… Not really sure what the difference is or what arm angle you are supposed to throw each from. I do know that Count does it both ways.
"I would rather have a battalion of German soldiers in front of me than a platoon of French soldiers behind me."
by Where Triples Go to Die on Jun 10, 2008 1:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
How do you know?
Link or something?
dude, that was totally not swish you saw on rush street last night. swish was at home playing xbox.
by colintj on Jun 10, 2008 1:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dan Plesac
"I would rather have a battalion of German soldiers in front of me than a platoon of French soldiers behind me."
by Where Triples Go to Die on Jun 10, 2008 1:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
all becaue of the CUBANS!
"I would rather have a battalion of German soldiers in front of me than a platoon of French soldiers behind me."
by Where Triples Go to Die on Jun 10, 2008 1:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
the month of June
look at the schedule for this month. we have 26 games left and all but 6 of them (against the cubs) are with teams below 500.
So that’s 20 games…
20 games…
we could very well be walking into july with 50 – 60 wins in our pocket.
by gman2849 on Jun 10, 2008 12:04 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
wow, 26 games in 21 days.
that might be a problem
it's time to accept that we're powerless when it comes to the white sox and turn ourselves over to a higher power: KW
by larry on Jun 10, 2008 12:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
that's the problem with players today.
nobody wants to play in june double or triple-headers anymore.
Half Dome is my bitch. Shasta is next.
by Toonderstrook on Jun 10, 2008 12:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Where is Ernie Banks when you need him?
CWS: Slashing negative expectations since May, 2008.
by winningugly on Jun 10, 2008 12:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
hawking his 512 chardonnay, probably.
Half Dome is my bitch. Shasta is next.
by Toonderstrook on Jun 10, 2008 1:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i'd rather play the majority of my games
when im hot… i do not expect them to have 60 wins by july but i enjoy the optimism.
"I would rather have a battalion of German soldiers in front of me than a platoon of French soldiers behind me."
by Where Triples Go to Die on Jun 10, 2008 1:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
ok the hell with it
60 WINS BY JULY!!! 16 GAME LEAD. TERRIBLE AUGUST AND THE FIRST 20 DAYS OF SEPT. WE SWEEP THE INDIANS TO GET INTO THE POST SEASON AND WIN THE WORLD SERIES!!! Oh wait that already happened… it couldn’t happen again… could it?
"I would rather have a battalion of German soldiers in front of me than a platoon of French soldiers behind me."
by Where Triples Go to Die on Jun 10, 2008 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
have faith
ok so maybe it was spilling into july a little bit.
... still
by gman2849 on Jun 10, 2008 12:15 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I still remember the WSJ in June 2005
I remember reading it while waiting for the blue line that morning. The Sox had the best record in the league but they were lamenting how poor the fan turnout was. What a great foreshawdowing of what was to come.
“Even if we win the World Series this year, Wrigley will still sell out next year,” Sox first baseman Paul Konerko says. “But I can’t guarantee we’d be sold out here.”
by scott b on Jun 10, 2008 12:28 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
A day like yesterday (makeup, day game, very iffy weather),
they would have been hanging from the rafters at Wrigley Field.
Probably 15 – 20K attended yesterday.
Pitching, defense, health and 10 or more runs a game
by ballyb on Jun 10, 2008 12:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
YEAH
but remember what Lee Elia said? Cub 85% of the city works and the other 15% are cub fans… Sox fans are workers. I feel bad though I have yet to attend a game this year but I got a patio party for cubs vs sox june 28th!
"I would rather have a battalion of German soldiers in front of me than a platoon of French soldiers behind me."
by Where Triples Go to Die on Jun 10, 2008 12:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
As I say to any Cubs fan who brings up this stuff
They can have their full house.. I’ll take my better baseball team and world series championship in my life time. Who cares.. as long as we can afford to keep the payroll in the top 10 we’ve got a high enough attendance.
by Grinder in Training on Jun 10, 2008 12:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you can't really judge day game attendence when it's
a make up game that is not on the schedule. lets face it, we don’t have all the jobless frat boys filling up 60% of our stadium… we attract a much different demographic like families, die hard fans, group outings, and casual fans. We don’t get as many drunks going to a game just to get drunk, we don’t attract as many tourists, I would take that magical year in 05 over anything the cubs organization has to offer. I also think it’s funny that the Cubs have a good shot to make the WS….the only problem is they will have to play either the white sox, red sox, or angels. Instead of wait until next year, it should be wait until the AL is an inferior league.
"I would rather have a battalion of German soldiers in front of me than a platoon of French soldiers behind me."
by Where Triples Go to Die on Jun 10, 2008 12:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Am I the only one on this site who finds the Mariners' hiring of Lee Elia
as hitting instructor hysterical?
CWS: Slashing negative expectations since May, 2008.
by winningugly on Jun 10, 2008 1:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am not old enough
to remember Elia as a coach but, from what I have heard from him…he hits the nail right on the head.
"I would rather have a battalion of German soldiers in front of me than a platoon of French soldiers behind me."
by Where Triples Go to Die on Jun 10, 2008 1:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I saved a copy of that article
Since it was on the front page of the WSJ you might say PK was a little late to the party.
CWS: Slashing negative expectations since May, 2008.
by winningugly on Jun 10, 2008 1:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
rofl sig
i had high expectations…
"I would rather have a battalion of German soldiers in front of me than a platoon of French soldiers behind me."
by Where Triples Go to Die on Jun 10, 2008 1:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
In some ways...
this team is better than the ‘05 team, at least right now.
Except for the few weeks that Frank Thomas was in the lineup, the ‘05 team had all sorts of trouble scoring runs. They won on pitching, defense, and good luck.
The 2005 White Sox went 35-19 in one-run games. The current team is 6-7 in one-run games.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jun 10, 2008 1:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The obvious blasphemy in thinking that anything could possibly equal or exceed 2005 aside,
I was actually just thinking that, player for player, I think I like this team more than the ‘05 team. Fewer holes, flukes and just crazy luck this year—it seems more legit.
Plus …................ Q!
by The Actual El Guapo on Jun 10, 2008 1:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And like 2008...
the White Sox had an awful bench in 2005. I’ll never understand why the Sox held onto Timo Perez all year and let Gload rot in AAA.
The thing to note is that the Sox got great luck with injury in 2005. Aside from Frank Thomas, no important player spent a lot of time on the DL, or had decreased effectiveness due to injury, except maybe Joe Crede a bit. The 2008 team will need to have similar luck.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jun 10, 2008 1:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with this
But dont most playoff teams experience health luck?
The SSS motto should be the answer to "What is our deepest fear?". Or maybe just Prozac.
by Tdogg on Jun 10, 2008 1:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yup
that’s one of the more highly correlated things to wins/playoffs. right below “talent”, i’m sure.
it's time to accept that we're powerless when it comes to the white sox and turn ourselves over to a higher power: KW
by larry on Jun 10, 2008 1:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
talent? health? keep holding on to your superstitions. winning is an attitude. sheesh. can't believe people are still so misinformed.
They're gonna give daddy the Rain Man suite, you dig that?
by MarketMaker on Jun 10, 2008 4:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I remember Pete Rose indirectly saying the white sox would win the WS
“The team that wins 30 one run games will win the world series” I think we were at 28 wins in 1 run games wins when he said this. If the majority of the hitters on this team even come close to their career averages and the pitching stays somewhat decent then yes… even if we don’t win the WS, this team is still better.
"I would rather have a battalion of German soldiers in front of me than a platoon of French soldiers behind me."
by Where Triples Go to Die on Jun 10, 2008 1:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
With all the Sox love in the air
on SSS today, am I wrong to say that I look forward to cries of panic and the outrage when the Sox lose a couple games in a row in the near future?
by palehose67 on Jun 10, 2008 1:15 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Why then this wouldnt be SSS like
You expect different? That is the fun of it!
The SSS motto should be the answer to "What is our deepest fear?". Or maybe just Prozac.
by Tdogg on Jun 10, 2008 1:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
There's no denying it is fun.
But it also makes me appreciate more the thoughtful, reasoned analysis (larry, Cheat, etc.) we find here too.
by palehose67 on Jun 10, 2008 1:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
WTGTD....
"I would rather have a battalion of German soldiers in front of me than a platoon of French soldiers behind me."
by Where Triples Go to Die on Jun 10, 2008 1:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
OT: Euros
you guys keeping an eye on it? Damn does Spain look tough… can any other team in the tourney match their talent?
by CWSKeith on Jun 10, 2008 1:32 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
And DelNegro could turn out to be the basketball version of Ozzie!
When she farts, a little rainbow comes out...
by Chiburb on Jun 10, 2008 1:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
he DOES seem pretty grindy...
Mosi Tatupu! Mosi Tatupu!
by Nordhagen on Jun 10, 2008 1:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Del Negro:
I didn’t realize he has the Steve Kerr connection. And as a white guy he has the best name to integrate and ingratiate himself with his teammates.
Vinnie the Black. How perfect is that?
CWS: Slashing negative expectations since May, 2008.
by winningugly on Jun 10, 2008 1:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
*of the Black
dude, that was totally not swish you saw on rush street last night. swish was at home playing xbox.
by colintj on Jun 10, 2008 2:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was paraphrasing.
Get a job.
;)
CWS: Slashing negative expectations since May, 2008.
by winningugly on Jun 10, 2008 2:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i thought it was a haircut first, then a job
dude, that was totally not swish you saw on rush street last night. swish was at home playing xbox.
by colintj on Jun 10, 2008 2:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yes
When she farts, a little rainbow comes out...
by Chiburb on Jun 10, 2008 2:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i'm pretty excited about the vinny del negro hiring. got a good feeling about that wop.
They're gonna give daddy the Rain Man suite, you dig that?
by MarketMaker on Jun 10, 2008 4:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
they'll fold just like they always do.
it's time to accept that we're powerless when it comes to the white sox and turn ourselves over to a higher power: KW
by larry on Jun 10, 2008 1:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You are suuuuuuch a Torres fanboy
dude, that was totally not swish you saw on rush street last night. swish was at home playing xbox.
by colintj on Jun 10, 2008 2:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Aww come on
I wasn’t thinking particularly of Torres there. He’s part of it, sure, but I was looking at the culmination of guys like Fabregas, Ramos, Puyol, Xavi and Torres.
But you’re certainly correct in that Torres is my man-crush of football.
by CWSKeith on Jun 10, 2008 2:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i hear that david villa isn’t a bad player.
it's time to accept that we're powerless when it comes to the white sox and turn ourselves over to a higher power: KW
by larry on Jun 10, 2008 2:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Villa
He’s someone Liverpool has been linked to. That or random fans are clamoring for his presence at Anfield.
You’ll have to forgive me a bit… I don’t see a good amount of these players, as my viewing is mostly limited the English league. And I’ve only been following for a year, so even that isn’t of much use.
Just a random comment re: Portugal—I was disappointed Quaresma didn’t get onto the pitch. He’s someone I’ve heard a lot about but haven’t gotten to see live.
by CWSKeith on Jun 10, 2008 3:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
lol, you're forgiven
mine, like everyone else, is Cristiano. he’s hot and better than everyone ever.
dude, that was totally not swish you saw on rush street last night. swish was at home playing xbox.
by colintj on Jun 10, 2008 2:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
how do you guys see the Dutch team?
I haven’t followed them at all, but their coach, Marco Van Basten, was my favorite player
do they have a shot?
The greatest trick the White Sox ever pulled was convincing their fan base that "Ozzieball" ever existed.
by The Wizard on Jun 10, 2008 2:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
They looked awesome yesterday
that, or Italy looked really really bad. Probably a combination of the two.
by CWSKeith on Jun 10, 2008 3:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Now this is an objective piece-- A's win Swisher deal.
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/athletics-get-best-of-swisher-deal/#comments
The SSS motto should be the answer to "What is our deepest fear?". Or maybe just Prozac.
by Tdogg on Jun 10, 2008 2:05 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
well, if we're going to evaluate trades based on less than three months of production, i'd agree with this guy.
of course, doing so is silly.
it's time to accept that we're powerless when it comes to the white sox and turn ourselves over to a higher power: KW
by larry on Jun 10, 2008 2:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He lost me here: Maybe the A’s knew something the rest of us did not (wink, wink, nudge, nudge, say no more)?
When she farts, a little rainbow comes out...
by Chiburb on Jun 10, 2008 2:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
the parenthetical is a Monty Python reference
specifically to an Eric Idle sketch wherein he plays someone obsessed with innuendo.
dude, that was totally not swish you saw on rush street last night. swish was at home playing xbox.
by colintj on Jun 10, 2008 2:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
a dead parrot could've written a better piece.
When she farts, a little rainbow comes out...
by Chiburb on Jun 10, 2008 2:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
what about one that was pining for the fjords?
dude, that was totally not swish you saw on rush street last night. swish was at home playing xbox.
by colintj on Jun 10, 2008 2:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Which site is it that lets you put in dates for mlb stats in that period?
Can someone link it?
The SSS motto should be the answer to "What is our deepest fear?". Or maybe just Prozac.
by Tdogg on Jun 10, 2008 2:10 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
baseball musings
It’s on the homepage sidebar of links.
by the wimperoo on Jun 10, 2008 2:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
baseball musings is my hero
love that site.
dude, that was totally not swish you saw on rush street last night. swish was at home playing xbox.
by colintj on Jun 10, 2008 2:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well this is a first
For the first time since I’ve been reading this site I’m actually one of the more pessimistic (realistic?) . Now I am definitely of the belief that we are the clear favorites to win our division. And I do agree that Minnesota and Detroit are done (by the way I believe I was firmly planted in the “Dontrelle is done” club right when the trade was announced).
But I also agree that Cleveland probably has a run left in them. They have many players that are performing well below projections and career performance. One of the reasons PECOTA now has us at >80% to win the division is they have everybody else playing .500 or worse the rest of the year. I’m quite confident that won’t happen and I think Cleveland is why it won’t.
That being said I guess I’m more like 2/3 chance for playoffs. And maybe that is actually still optimistic for this site. I’d be interested as to what number the optimistic people running rampant on this site are at!
by bhoov on Jun 10, 2008 2:35 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Not that they know anything but...
at the moment, the BP boys are handicapping the Sox playoff probability at 89%, with the next two teams at 82% (RSox and Cubs).
by tommyjoepeters on Jun 10, 2008 2:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well...
I’ve been optimistic from the beginning (albeit quietly) but I’d agree with the 90% chance that BP is listing. The Sox will certainly go through some more rough patches though hopefully small ones (deus volent). The Indians will probably get hot at some point too.
But…talk to me when they reach .500. Yes, they’ve had some bad luck but that doesn’t automatically give them back those games that they lost. Add in the injuries that they’ve had and I’m not terribly afraid of them.
Optimist
by Peder on Jun 10, 2008 2:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
They have 12 home games this month, 7 on the road
The home games are against MIN, SFO, and SDO. If they’re going to make a run, they better do it now.
The road isn’t may be tougher, though not by much until the 7th game: COL, LAD, then the 1st game of a series at the Cell.
When she farts, a little rainbow comes out...
by Chiburb on Jun 10, 2008 2:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
forgot CIN at the Regressive Park too.
When she farts, a little rainbow comes out...
by Chiburb on Jun 10, 2008 2:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thats not the way PECOTA odds are figured.
The SSS motto should be the answer to "What is our deepest fear?". Or maybe just Prozac.
by Tdogg on Jun 10, 2008 2:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh I think I understand what you mean now.
My bad.
The SSS motto should be the answer to "What is our deepest fear?". Or maybe just Prozac.
by Tdogg on Jun 10, 2008 2:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
uh oh
stathead throw down. do some fucking research, bhoov.
it's time to accept that we're powerless when it comes to the white sox and turn ourselves over to a higher power: KW
by larry on Jun 10, 2008 2:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
no shit. He used to impress me.
;-)
When she farts, a little rainbow comes out...
by Chiburb on Jun 10, 2008 2:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Without checking, which AL team has fewer
stolen bases than the White Sox?
"Still waking up in the mornings with shaking hands"
by thekever on Jun 10, 2008 2:49 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
layup
who’s another team with lots of old basecloggers and, to boot, didn’t have their only basestealer for most of the season?
it's time to accept that we're powerless when it comes to the white sox and turn ourselves over to a higher power: KW
by larry on Jun 10, 2008 2:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
tigres?
Half Dome is my bitch. Shasta is next.
by Toonderstrook on Jun 10, 2008 2:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
no wonder they aren't scoring. they need speed!
When she farts, a little rainbow comes out...
by Chiburb on Jun 10, 2008 2:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i probably shouldn't say most of the season for granderson
but he has not been running hardly at all since he’s come back
it's time to accept that we're powerless when it comes to the white sox and turn ourselves over to a higher power: KW
by larry on Jun 10, 2008 2:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Btw, did you see that Pudge has lost his starting role at C?
Leyland said he’d go every other game with Inge back there.
When she farts, a little rainbow comes out...
by Chiburb on Jun 10, 2008 2:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
he's lost whatever power he had left, it seems
pretty much looks cooked on the offensive side, though he looks like he’s still got the gun behind the plate. of course, inge, once he gets his bearings back behind the plate, may be able to replicate what i-rod does, or thereabouts, considering he wasn’t a bad defensive catcher back in the day. probably a shuffling time move, at any rate.
it's time to accept that we're powerless when it comes to the white sox and turn ourselves over to a higher power: KW
by larry on Jun 10, 2008 3:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Granderson certainly hasn't been the spark they were looking for
"Still waking up in the mornings with shaking hands"
by thekever on Jun 10, 2008 2:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
unless he was able to step into the rotation and give them some quality starts,
he wouldn’t be the spark they were looking for anyway. it’s the pitching that’s the tigers’ problem. they’re giving up over 5 runs a game—only the twins (following the shellacking sweep) and the rangers are giving up more in the al.
Half Dome is my bitch. Shasta is next.
by Toonderstrook on Jun 10, 2008 3:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No he hasnt
Thats one of the reasonsI pointed to “their”belief in cold bats. The offense really hasnt been goodsince May 1st and the pitching has been a little better, esp the last half month. Willis did his best to screw that up though.
The SSS motto should be the answer to "What is our deepest fear?". Or maybe just Prozac.
by Tdogg on Jun 10, 2008 3:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
leaving 3 relievers to pitch 2 innings each.
When she farts, a little rainbow comes out...
by Chiburb on Jun 10, 2008 3:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He did when he first came off the DL, which IIRC, coincided with
their first little winning streak. I opined that if they continued the turnaround he’d be a candidate for MVP. Looks like his injury might be worse than originally thought (if his SB’s are non-existent). One of those all-season, nagging ones.
CWS: Slashing negative expectations since May, 2008.
by winningugly on Jun 10, 2008 3:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
wasn't it a finger injury?
not sure how that would cause him not to run. unless there’s something else going on physically – or maybe it’s just philosophical.
it's time to accept that we're powerless when it comes to the white sox and turn ourselves over to a higher power: KW
by larry on Jun 10, 2008 3:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't remember the nature of the injury
but it is curious that his SB’s are down so much. Does he slide head-first often? But re: hitting, we all know that hand injuries wreak havok with hitting. (At a loss for why he’s 3-5 in SB’s after stealing 26 last year.)
CWS: Slashing negative expectations since May, 2008.
by winningugly on Jun 10, 2008 3:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i thought about that
and a image/video search didn’t reveal the answer. i do recall him sliding, ahem, properly into home plate a few times but i don’t recall much about his stolen bases for some reason.
it's time to accept that we're powerless when it comes to the white sox and turn ourselves over to a higher power: KW
by larry on Jun 10, 2008 3:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
can we offer them any pitching parts for him?
The greatest trick the White Sox ever pulled was convincing their fan base that "Ozzieball" ever existed.
by The Wizard on Jun 10, 2008 3:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Big Brown's Trainer: Blame The Jockey!
"I don’t want to hurt anyone, especially Kent," Dutrow told The Associated Press on Tuesday morning in his barn at Aqueduct. "But I still don’t understand what happened. I don’t see the horse with a problem, so I have to direct my attention toward the ride. That’s all I can come up with."
Desormeaux eased up the unbeaten colt with a quarter-mile remaining in the Belmont on Saturday.
"I had no horse. He was empty," Desormeaux said after the race.
Dutrow insisted Tuesday he had found nothing wrong with Big Brown.
http://sports.yahoo.com/rah/news?slug=ap-bigbrown-dutrow&prov=ap&type=lgns
When she farts, a little rainbow comes out...
by Chiburb on Jun 10, 2008 3:00 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
'Roids
Winstrol, baby. Ask McGwire.
CWS: Slashing negative expectations since May, 2008.
by winningugly on Jun 10, 2008 3:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Speaking of changes
Barfield up Cabrera down.
http://blog.cleveland.com/sports/2008/06/indians_promote_barfield_cabre.html
The SSS motto should be the answer to "What is our deepest fear?". Or maybe just Prozac.
by Tdogg on Jun 10, 2008 3:06 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
some interesting numbers
Stat Talk (courtesy of ESPN Research)
According to “Inside Edge,” Jim Thome is hitting just .098 (5-for-51) this season off of curveballs and sliders. Normally it’s the fastball that gets to aging hitters, but in this case, it appears to be the breaking stuff. On the flip side, Paul Konerko chased high fastballs at a 30.8 percent clip from 2005-07 but is chasing them just 12.6 percent of the time this season. That’s a sign of improved discipline, and it’s why Konerko is on pace for 86 walks this season, which would easily set a career high.
Maybe Jim’s eyes are going?
The news about Konerko, though it sounds positive, brings to mind the research cited here earlier in the year about how increased walks can indicate the beginning of the end for an aging slugger who knows he can’t catch up to the high heat anymore and just lays off it.
by Ryno on Jun 10, 2008 3:08 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
research?
SSS doesn’t do any stinkin research!
The greatest trick the White Sox ever pulled was convincing their fan base that "Ozzieball" ever existed.
by The Wizard on Jun 10, 2008 3:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually this is something I wanted to address with our next "community" project
Basically, I wanted to have a post every weekday that we have a night game sometime around noon, as the other post gets stale. It would be a spotlight on a given player, where we discuss the players performance, etc. The goal of the post would be to use our collective observations of the player to come up with an accurate scouting report for said player.
i.e. it doesn’t appear that Thome’s bat-speed is down this year, but his pitch recognition definitely is. (This is exactly the hypothesis I had yesterday when I came up with this idea)
We’ll start tomorrow afternoon.
AIM: SouthSideCheat
by The Cheat on Jun 10, 2008 3:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
just like you were totally going to draft every player the twins did, right, cheat?
it's time to accept that we're powerless when it comes to the white sox and turn ourselves over to a higher power: KW
by larry on Jun 10, 2008 3:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cheat has predicted 13 of the last 5 recessions
CWS: Slashing negative expectations since May, 2008.
by winningugly on Jun 10, 2008 3:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thome's performance is declining?
Don’t tell Toonderstroke that one.
by SSH2005 on Jun 10, 2008 3:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
or SSH that the White Sox offense isn't the biggest joke in all of baseball.
Half Dome is my bitch. Shasta is next.
by Toonderstrook on Jun 10, 2008 5:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
that was a breaking ball he homered on tonight
it's time to accept that we're powerless when it comes to the white sox and turn ourselves over to a higher power: KW
by larry on Jun 10, 2008 8:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
research?
SSS doesn’t do any stinkin research!
The greatest trick the White Sox ever pulled was convincing their fan base that "Ozzieball" ever existed.
by The Wizard on Jun 10, 2008 3:10 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
bhoov used to.
When she farts, a little rainbow comes out...
by Chiburb on Jun 10, 2008 3:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
until Colin started following him around like a fanboy.
And I really did read that on SSS!
When she farts, a little rainbow comes out...
by Chiburb on Jun 10, 2008 3:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
WTGTD
dude, that was totally not swish you saw on rush street last night. swish was at home playing xbox.
by colintj on Jun 10, 2008 4:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
...never really explained that, did he?
that was pretty baffling
dude, that was totally not swish you saw on rush street last night. swish was at home playing xbox.
by colintj on Jun 10, 2008 4:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sox have the smallest run differential between Runs and Earned Runs in baseball
at 6. Next closest is the Yankees at 7. Getting back to average with some timely hits could also point that this run isn’t a fluke.
Show mercy. I get to watch the Rangers.
by Tim from Texas on Jun 10, 2008 4:26 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
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