On The Media Vultures Circling Guillen
by The Cheat on Jun 3, 2008 2:29 AM CDT
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PrintI don't get it.
Ozzie Guillen goes off following a terrible offensive series--a series which saw the Sox go 5-41 with runners in scoring position and strand runners who reached scoring position with nobody out on 5 separate occasions in the last two games--yet the narrative from the local and national media was about Guillen, whether he should be fired, whether he "out of line."
I'm no Guillen apologist. I've been known to rip him repeatedly in my recaps. And I can't even begin to build a case for his firing this season.
Guillen has been superb through the first 55 games. He hasn't made a single egregious in-game tactical error large enough for me to even note in any of my recaps. He was quick to get Quentin at-bats. He's banished Jerry Owens. He's using Toby Hall in the most efficient way possible. He shuffled the lineup when shuffling the lineup was about all he could do. And he's made the right in-game decisions at just about every turn. What more can you ask for from a manager?
So he says exactly what he feels. Who cares? The PC Police should be bowing at his feet every time he goes on one of his rants, because without him they'd have nothing to write about, nothing but dead air.
Think about this. The Sox have had two 4-game series in domes this season. They've allowed a total of 21 runs in those 8 games, which works out to 2.625 runs per game. As I recall, 5 of those runs in Toronto were unearned--or came in innings with extra outs--so the pitching staff allowed 16 "earned" runs in the two series. 8 games. They were 1-7 in those games. One and Fricken' Seven.
It's no coincidence that those two series have spawned the two Ozzie outbreaks and media storms. If the facts in the previous paragraph don't make you want to spout off a string of explicatives, you're not a Sox fan. You haven't been watching the same old shit for the last two years.
Ozzie Guillen is the biggest Sox fan there is. And he's had a front row seat for every single runner stranded on second after 3 straight pop-ups. He's been in the dugout everytime Nick Swisher GIDPs with RISP--Swisher's got 5 hits with RISP to go allong with his 5 GIDPs w/RISP. He's got to watch a team immune to the opposite field, pulling 84 MPH junk thrown off the outside corner. That's gotta drive even the strongest man crazy.
Who among us can honestly blame Guillen for letting off some steam? We all did the same thing.
Yet, 'the consensus around baseball' is that Guillen went too far. What did he say that went 'too far?'
Let's translate that."If we think we are going to win with the offense we have, we are full of it. I'm just being honest. I expect better from them if they're in the lineup.
"Just be ready because I expect movement Tuesday. I expect (general manager) Kenny Williams to do something Tuesday, and if we don't do anything Tuesday, there are going to be a lot of lineup changes. That's all I'm going to say about the offense." [...]"It can be me. It can be (hitting coach) Greg Walker. It can be the players. It could be anybody," he said. "I'm sick and tired to watch this thing for a year and a half. I'm not protecting anybody anymore. [Bleep] it. If they can't get it done, Kenny should find someone to get it done."
The offense sucks. It's sucked for 2 years now. I'm tired of it. I'm going to make some changes Tuesday. I want Kenny to make some changes too.
Fire me. Fire Walker. Fire anyone. There needs to be changes. And if Kenny doesn't make 'em, I will.
We know Ozzie's not getting fired. Hell, we know Walker's not getting fired. All he said was that Konerko, Thome, and Swisher are going to have a lot more free time during the games.
Oh. My. God. A major league manager is going to cut the playing time of his struggling sluggers. The horror!
Quick! Call Rosenthal. See if Kornheiser is awake. Tell Marriotti to dust off his best "Fire Ozzie" material. It's sanctimonious Guillen roasting time!
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I'm glad "best'' was in italics
As I was reading, I actually did a double take to make sure it was
-Jeeves Life in the Cell
Didnt mean to post yet
Was also going to say, I wholeheartedly agree Cheat. People (read writers) were saying how Ozzie threw Kenny under the bus, which I don’t see. I guess it could be a veiled remark against Kenny’s roster construction but I read it more as a dig at the players themselves.
Now what I truly wonder, is what the media’s reaction would have been had it been another manager. I doubt this would ever happen, but if Joe Torre was in the Sox’ manager and said that, I’d be terribly interested to see how the media would treat the rant.
-Jeeves Life in the Cell
Very little of interest to write about
being that both Chicago team are in 1st place in June.
Welcome to the AZ SnakePit, the SB Nation blog about the Arizona Diamondbacks.
The first rule of SnakePit is – you do not talk about Carlos Quentin.
The second rule of SnakePit is – you DO NOT talk about Carlos Quentin.
This Out of Control situation warrants back-to-back Mariotti columns.
“Time to fire Guillen, put him out of misery”
http://www.suntimes.com/sports/mariotti/983878,mariotti060308.article
If these guys smell blood, they best go see an Eye, Ear, Nose and Throat specialist ASAP.
Welcome to the AZ SnakePit, the SB Nation blog about the Arizona Diamondbacks.
The first rule of SnakePit is – you do not talk about Carlos Quentin.
The second rule of SnakePit is – you DO NOT talk about Carlos Quentin.
This Mariotti is one sick, obsessed and very resentful tomato(e).
“Forget about those old Al Capone and Hog Butcher to the World references. What this city must expunge, as it attempts to win the 2016 Olympics and polish its image for the world, is the embarrassing cloud of stench accumulated by the Blizzard of Oz with his relentlessly profane attacks on human life around him.”
Welcome to the AZ SnakePit, the SB Nation blog about the Arizona Diamondbacks.
The first rule of SnakePit is – you do not talk about Carlos Quentin.
The second rule of SnakePit is – you DO NOT talk about Carlos Quentin.
Interesting how he exhibits the same tendencies he rails against.
Look in the mirror, Jay-bird.
Glad I’m not pelted with this stuff in FL like you guys are up there.
I took the "under".
+1000
The greatest trick the White Sox ever pulled was convincing their fan base that "Ozzieball" ever existed.
Ignore the splash
Thanks for some sanity, Cheat.
The funny papers aren’t actually that bad (except for the usual from J the Joke, of course—gotta hang a star on bally for actually choking some of it down). I don’t see the Southtown or Tribune, but the rest had some reasonable stuff.
The tabloid hysteria of the S-T back page isn’t indicative of the copy from Cowley, De Luca, Slezak. The Daily Herald has Rozner, always a voice of reason wrt the Sox.
The tabloid hysteria of the S-T back page isn’t indicative of the copy from Cowley, De Luca, Slezak
Huh?
When she farts, a little rainbow comes out...
This is controversy?
De Luca: Nobody on the farm, play BA over Swish, Sox pathetic in 2-out RISP, Konerko hasn’t hit a lick since July ‘07, Thome useless in 2-out RoB situations, not time to fire anybody, time for shakeup (channeling Guillen), Ozzie called out Walker Sunday.
Slezak: Sox pitching stellar, KW without much leverage to deal, “After having spent most of May on the road, the Sox should have been looking forward to a warm homecoming. Finally, a chance to heat up their frigid bats”, Swisher underperforming, Sunday’s outburst doesn’t rank high on the Ozzie-meter it was about baseball pure and simple, “for now, the Sox’s best option is to look within. They’re in first place. Why not start by believing they belong there?”
Cowley: Off-season rehash.
Btw, looks like larry found his way into Quick Hits.
by tommyjoepeters on Jun 3, 2008 9:12 AM CDT up reply actions
also these:
DeLuca: not impressed with others’ analysis, wishes they would stop wasting his time
Slezak: thinks ballplayers are inappropriate and sexist
Cowley: mostly inaccurate and/or trite, which is remarkable given his access to the club
Mosi Tatupu! Mosi Tatupu!
When in a slump, break out the inflatables.
Welcome to the AZ SnakePit, the SB Nation blog about the Arizona Diamondbacks.
The first rule of SnakePit is – you do not talk about Carlos Quentin.
The second rule of SnakePit is – you DO NOT talk about Carlos Quentin.
Cowley
is awful. He writes terrible opinion-based pieces, and is the only writer on staff to actually be suspended from postseason voting by his own association.
Sox fan Larry wonders in an email: ’’Is it too late to have Jerry Reinsdorf ask Doug Collins if he wants the Sox managerial job, as well?’’ What, you want a guy who is known for slowing down his team’s offense to take over? Although in the Sox’ case, slowing down their offense would take some doing (or more of their big hitters not doing).
http://www.suntimes.com/sports/quickhits/983569,CST-SPT-1hit03.article
When she farts, a little rainbow comes out...
halelujah!
dead on.
In “controversies” past, at least the media had just cause for ripping Guillen and questioning his continued employment. I’m thinking specifically of Ozzie’s homophobic rants. But Ozzie (so far, of course), has really done a good job of not creating those “what-did-he-say” distractions. Plus, as you mention, he’s been a very good manager.
He threw no one “under the bus,” and so what if he did? He’s the damn manager. Do the Chicago sportswriters really want Jerry Manuel quotes again?
This one, like the Cabrera flap, is being pumped up by the media. Storylines in the press take a life of their own, and thanks Cheat for calling a spade a spade. I hope you have a louder microphone in the future.
Mosi Tatupu! Mosi Tatupu!
I was watching the sports and then saw this
Exactly my same thoughts – the only ones seeming to blow this out of proportion are the media and KW. Ozzie didn’t say anything that any “dedicated” fan hasn’t been saying for the last 2 years. The only difference is this time is the fan is in the dugout – and Kenny doesn’t like that. Plus the media, who still wants the inside track, will use this to attempt to get on KWs good side, as well as try to use Ozzie’s past to sell papers.
If nothing else, it put the Sox as the lead on the news again.
Oz – thanks for saying what I feel everytime I see the price of my tickets while watching these guys pop-up or ground into another DP.
KW is the idiot here....
all he had to do was say, “I’m sure Ozzie is frustrated and so am I. When he gets back to Chicago, we’ll sit down and try to figure out a way to improve the offense.”
End of story. Instead, he has to escalate the situation.
KW did nothing to escalate the situation
this is all on the media
"I got the shotgun. You got the briefcase. It's all in the game though, right? "
by onlysoxfaninboston on Jun 3, 2008 9:05 AM CDT up reply actions
Not true - KW said Ozzie threw him under he bus
Which I think vastly misinterprets what Ozzie was saying. It would have been much more of a non-story otherwise.
by hitlesswonder on Jun 3, 2008 9:18 AM CDT up reply actions
I totally agree Hitless
KW could have just brushed it off, but he definitely threw gasoline on the fire with the “under the bus” comment.
"You might be impressed with your analysis, but I am not. Stop wasting my time." - Chris De Luca
It's a good distraction from the players' hitting problems.
Welcome to the AZ SnakePit, the SB Nation blog about the Arizona Diamondbacks.
The first rule of SnakePit is – you do not talk about Carlos Quentin.
The second rule of SnakePit is – you DO NOT talk about Carlos Quentin.
look, someone who follows the white sox and knows how they operate when team/player isn't doing well.
front office and management playing the media like a fiddle.
Give him some credit
Last I looked, KW was concentrating on the draft—isn’t that a good thing?
“I’m sure Ozzie is frustrated and so am I”? Gee, why doesn’t he just say, “You know, I’ve been so busy I haven’t had a chance to keep up. How are they doing?”
I think Guillen was using the gm to get at the hitless wonders in the lineup, anyway.
by tommyjoepeters on Jun 3, 2008 9:20 AM CDT up reply actions
Just visiting
As a visiter here, I like the way Ozzy talks. If only the team would respond to this this. You guys have a great team that with a little heart can go a long ways!!
"......and you can kiss it GOODBYE"
nice shirt!
are you wu’s long lost twin brother?
:p
The greatest trick the White Sox ever pulled was convincing their fan base that "Ozzieball" ever existed.
This is why I read this site daily.
I’ve long been a critic of Ozzie Guillen, but its absolutely true that outside of firing Walker (which is more symbolic than anything), what can he really do?
I happened to read the Sun-Times this morning, which included that Mariotti column referenced above. It was truly embarrassing, even by his standards. His argument for firing Ozzie basically consists of “I’ve wanted this for a long time, and now even Tony Kornheiser, my ESPN colleague, because I work on ESPN, agrees with me!”
Ozzie has been fine.
There have been minor moves I’ve disagreed with (some lack of having Anderson in for defense, odd pinch-hitting decisions). But I think his bullpen usage has been good. IIRC he used Jenks in a non-save but high-leverage situation. And he also chose Q over Owens. He gave Swisher a shot in CF and leading off. He’s embraced the idea that OBP is more important than empty speed. Honestly, I think he’s one of the better manager’s in baseball.
Ozzie isn't the problem
As everyone else has already said: the problem is the god damn offense. I just don’t see what “changes” Ozzie is going to make. Anderson for Swisher is about the only move that could be argued for, and even then it’s on purely defensive merit, which kinda negates the whole “the offense is the problem” reason for changing in the first place. I highly doubt BA puts up better numbers in full time role then the next 100 games of Swisher.
Fields should be brought up as soon as he’s fully healthy and given 3-4 starts a week against LHP and the occasionly righty. Konerko and Thome lose some PAs but tought titties.
I predicted 80 wins before the season started, I’ll revise it upwards to 85 now—a succesful year coming off 72 wins, but still not enough to go anywhere.
a friend in nyc called sunday...
asking what is going on with ozzie and why is he flipping out?
i just said, eh…its just ozzie. its not a big deal. you non-sox fans like to make it a bigger deal because you have nothing else to talk about
the worst part
about this manufactured controversy, is having to read and hear the phrase “threw so-and-so under the bus” a million times. oh well, i guess “it is what it is.”
cliche hell
yes, “under the bus” and “is what it is” have definitely jumped the shark. As has “jumped the shark.”
Mosi Tatupu! Mosi Tatupu!
At the end of the day...
The team with the most runs wins.
Clearly.
When she farts, a little rainbow comes out...
yea
They let him off the hook! If you want to crown Ozzie’s ass crown him. But we let him off the hook!
history
The greatest trick the White Sox ever pulled was convincing their fan base that "Ozzieball" ever existed.
that avatar is so freaking cool
awesome!
The greatest trick the White Sox ever pulled was convincing their fan base that "Ozzieball" ever existed.
This is a case of X being X
dude, that was totally not swish you saw on rush street last night. swish was at home playing xbox.
Ozzie's rant
another day another blown opportunity and Ozzie gets mad, what’s new and who cares. He didn’t say anything I , and many of us, haven’t felt. Ozzie should call each player in and discuss his feelings about their performance instead of ranting to the media. If the players do not correct the problems bench them, coach them,dump them or live with them . We are in first place with little opportunity to make many changes and Ozzie gets frustrated, good for Ozzie.
Less than 9 hours until the "new" line up
Has there been a Ross Gload sighting?
Robbie Alomar?
Carl Everett?
Shake it up Ozzie!
"We're gonna bring it all day, everyday...we're gonna keep grinding it out." - Nick Swisher (4/1/08)
These so-called journalists should be careful what they wish for...
...some how I doubt deep down many of them think that Ozzie would really get fired over this, they just want something to write about.
But some other day, when Ozzie’s gone, they are going to miss him – what would they have to write about?
Give Harold Baines the Manager's job
The media would be weeping within a week…as the tasty quotes would evaporate overnight.
"We're gonna bring it all day, everyday...we're gonna keep grinding it out." - Nick Swisher (4/1/08)
It is warming to see everyone rally around Ozzie, as opposed to last year
when he was being crucified. I agree with the poster above that he really was calling out Walk and the older guys who aren’t producing – the “non-pirhana” types. Knowing you can’t squeeze in a run from 3rd from half of your lineup because they can’t “situational hit” must be frustrating to someone who loves to play it a run at a time.
I wonder if we 100% draft a hitter as opposed to a pitcher, no matter how good the pitching prospect is, because of these shortcomings.
I took the "under".
PS Is there a moratorium on comments from the legal beagles on this site?
No larry, Toonder, Bridgeport Joe. Hmmmm….
I took the "under".
isn't toonder in san quentin?
:p
The greatest trick the White Sox ever pulled was convincing their fan base that "Ozzieball" ever existed.
didn't jim leyland go off on the tigers earlier this year?
and hasn’t he had a few public rants in his day? where were the calls for his head?
and ozzie needs to apologize to his players for saying they’re underperforming, even though they are in fact underperforming? clearly, that kind of honesty is unacceptable in a manager. stick to cliches about grinding it out and giving 110%, ozzeroo. from here on out ozzie should give the media the rasheed wallace treatment: “both teams played hard.”
ozzie
from here on out ozzie should give the media the rasheed wallace treatment: "both teams played hard."
can he do that? I can’t see ozzie shuting up
The greatest trick the White Sox ever pulled was convincing their fan base that "Ozzieball" ever existed.
In other news...
Josh Fields was in the Knights’ lineup last night for the first time since May 28, going 2-for-3 with a double and a walk.
His batting line is up to .356/.340/.480.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jun 3, 2008 10:54 AM CDT reply actions
Er...
that’s .256/.340/.480.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jun 3, 2008 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions
banged up and in AAA for the third time?
I’ll take it
dude, that was totally not swish you saw on rush street last night. swish was at home playing xbox.
The problem with defending Ozzie...
His comments are true but then he says that anyone can be fired at any time, including Greg Walker. Kenny has stated that Ozzie has the power to fire anyone in his coaching staff, including Greg Walker.
Ugh.
Now Phil Rogers is calling Brad Eldred the “best option” the Sox have in the minors.
Eldred is the same guy he’s always been – a ton of power, zero plate discipline.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jun 3, 2008 11:01 AM CDT reply actions
is there something fallacious about that assertion?
fields has been hurt. owens sucks. richar still coming back. getz not ready. who ya got, jer? the cupboard is bare.
Be honest and say that there is no good option, haha.
Actually, JRE just posted that Fields played last night so he is once again the best option.
Ah, okay...
I just assumed that he must be healthy if he finally played. I was thinking he would be inactive until he was 100%.
I wouldn't characterize it as chronic
It can be chronic but doesn’t have to be. There are many patients that get tendinitis, get treated with NSAIDs and don’t have recurrences for years if ever.
Might be bad for the rest of this year
But it’s usually pain you can play through, and a couple months off in the winter he should be as good as new.
by Grinder in Training on Jun 3, 2008 11:45 AM CDT up reply actions
I still think Getz...
would be a decent enough player, certainly more valuable than Eldred. I know you disagree, so I’ll leave it at that.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jun 3, 2008 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions
Getz doesn't make much sense now that Ramirez has started to hit...
and even though Ozuna sucks, I don’t know how much of an improvement Gets would be over him.
to do what?
play second? play SS? this team doesn’t need a middle infielder. it needs someone with some pop who can play a corner.
To do what?
Sit on the bench?
Quentin’s not sitting. Dye’s not sitting. Crede’s not sitting. Thome’s not sitting. As much as he needs to, Konerko’s not sitting. And Guillen doesn’t use pinch-hitters. That leaves a hypothetical power hitter on the bench to be a cheerleader, unless someone goes on the DL.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jun 3, 2008 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions
i kind of have the feeling that they will be sitting more, jer.
and what kind of games are coming up? oh yeah, interleague ones. pinch hitter anyone?
And they'll have Thome...
sitting on the bench for that purpose. They’ve got six more games in National League parks – not enough to make roster decisions around.
And really, who goes away to make room for this guy? Ozuna? Not likely. A pitcher? We wish.
The Sox are stuck with the roster they’ve got, like it or not.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jun 3, 2008 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions
i've spent the last day listening to people obscure points.
we’re talking about someone’s assertion about who is the best option in the minor league system.
And Eldred's not it.
Unless, of course, you’re looking for someone to strike out in a key situation.
Even from a pure hitter’s perspective, I’d rather have Getz. Eldred is Joe Borchard.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jun 3, 2008 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions
Not, of course...
that either one would be a great option as a hitter.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jun 3, 2008 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions
And I respectfully disagree.
I’m not saying he’d be an all-star or even an above-average player, but I think he could put up similar numbers to Richar’s.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jun 3, 2008 11:30 AM CDT up reply actions
The same place...
where I expressed concern over Alexei Ramirez’s total lack of plate discipline at the end of Spring Training.
I don’t even think that Getz will be an average major-leaguer. But then again, I don’t think Richar ever will be, either.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jun 3, 2008 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions
And you're the arbiter...
of such things.
I see.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jun 3, 2008 11:38 AM CDT up reply actions
I see the home-road splits.
But Richar had similar splits last year.
It’s not that important – again, I don’t think that Getz is all that great of a player. Probably better than Ozuna, but there are hundreds of minor-leaguers that are better than Ozuna.
My main point is that Eldred isn’t any kind of major-league player. He has no defensive value, and the power is useless if he’s going to swing at everything. Like I said, he’s Joe Borchard.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jun 3, 2008 11:48 AM CDT up reply actions
getz has no defensive value either.
i recommend taking a trip to charlotte at some point jer and watching your lover boy play.
not to charlotte
but i’ve seen the knights twice this year. of course, he was away from the magic of fort mill so i’m sure that was the problem.
I'll take your word for it then.
If Getz really sucks, then Charlotte lacks a position player who can play at the major-league level, at least until Fields is healthy. That’s all there is to it.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jun 3, 2008 11:59 AM CDT up reply actions
indeed. i was just going over an old bill james abstract while i was travelling.
[yes, i’m weird like that] and this is my primary point about getz, via james:
What a player hits in one ballpark may be radically different from what he would hit in another.
http://www.baseball1.com/bb-data/bbd-bj1.html
his road splits, while likely understating his abilities right now, are far more in line with his present abilities than those from charlotte. give him some time to develop more because i think he could be a bench player type next year. but he needs time to adjust to AAA first.
and, looking back at a prior post, i realized i wrote something which overstates my point some. getz does not have “no defensive value” – but he has no defensive value on the sox because he’s not better defensively than who is already here and he doesn’t hit better than them, either. i was misunderstanding your post.
The old...
Jim Rice syndrome.
We’ll see how Getz pans out.
Obviously, I’m not thrilled with the Sox minor-league system right now. I’m keeping an eye on David Cook, but something tells me that he’s not much of a prospect, either.
The cupboard is really bare. It’s depressing.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jun 3, 2008 12:09 PM CDT up reply actions
Power is the issue
and Getz has none. He doesn’t even have above average LD rates. He can’t play short. And he’s from Michigan, so if there was a case I’d be making it.
dude, that was totally not swish you saw on rush street last night. swish was at home playing xbox.
as i've said before, he makes jerry owens look like a power hitter
the slugging this year is a mirage.
Now that Alexei
is killing the ball I don’t know what it really matters. We have a real starting 2B that’s only 26, I think if he is anything near what he has been lately we don’t have to ever talk about Chris Getz again.
by Grinder in Training on Jun 3, 2008 11:47 AM CDT up reply actions
Well
I was assuming Chris Getz would never play over Orlando Cabrera so that was not even worth talking about.
by Grinder in Training on Jun 3, 2008 12:07 PM CDT up reply actions
Misread that..
In any case, Richar or Uribe would both be healthy by next year, or they would just get a 2B in free agency that is better then a minor league player with no potential. If Chris Getz is an option in 2009 we might as well throw in the towel now.
by Grinder in Training on Jun 3, 2008 12:11 PM CDT up reply actions
i think it's safe to say
that both uribe and ozuna will be gone next year, replaced, one might posit, by richar and getz.
If Getz
is in the utility /25th man role that’d be fine.
I find it hard to believe though that he’d be there as the starting 2B which is really all that matters. I’d assume if Richar doesn’t pan out you can just find someone average to play 2B, it’s not a hard position to fill.
by Grinder in Training on Jun 3, 2008 12:54 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm still not sold...
on Ramirez. He’ll have a brilliant AB, and then he’ll follow it up with one where he looks absolutely stupid. And a pitcher with good breaking stuff can still get him out pretty consistently.
I’d also like to see him walk more than once a month, too.
It’s worth keeping him in the lineup, to see how he develops, but I’m not seeing that the problem is solved just yet.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jun 3, 2008 11:50 AM CDT up reply actions
Maybe..
He’s a rookie who has never even played in the minor leagues in the US, three weeks into his first starting gig, in a line up that is awful and yet he’s still producing.
I think he’s worth keeping in the line up.
Not to mention most pitchers with good breaking stuff can get an average major league hitter out pretty consistently. To be average already would be pretty damn impressive.
by Grinder in Training on Jun 3, 2008 12:09 PM CDT up reply actions
i'm beginning to think i was wrong about his readiness
we’ll see how he handles things the proverbial “second time around the league”. he still looks bad on breaking stuff. but the problem doesn’t seem to reach the BA level of making him unsuitable for a starting positon.
huh?
You arent sold by a first time American Major league player who hit almost .300 in his first everyday stint? What WOULD sell you?
Doing it for a couple hundred plate appearances...
would probably sell me. Lots of terrible hitters have looked good for two-three weeks.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jun 3, 2008 12:18 PM CDT up reply actions
Ok
since he has been getting better every week I’d say those numbers do his skill level a disservice. Not to mention his defense has looked stellar.
yup
give me about 300 PAs and then we can talk. especially since the guy has no track record that is easily extrapolated to the majors.
i'd also like him to hit righties better and take a walk more than once a month
if he keeps doing the latter, he’s not going to see anything in the zone. and he isn’t a vlad type hitter who can club just anything. he has holes to exploit. we’ll see how he adapts and improves.
Agreed.
There’s no scouting report on Ramirez, and he’s taking advantage of that fact. Pitchers will adjust quickly – will he?
by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jun 3, 2008 12:26 PM CDT up reply actions
He already has - he did very well
in ST and then promptly sucked when starting the regular season. He’s adjusted to a whole new set of pitchers who are much more talented than the scrubs in ST.
I bought into your guys’ assertion that he needed to go down to AAA because he looked like dookie for a month. I’d venture to say he’s deserved to stay up for awhile, and with a solid position (2B – no CF, no SS, but he has his own position now) that seems stabile he looks like I thought he might (although I thought he’d look good in CF – he seems to be very comfortable at 2B).
One other adjustment you don’t factor in – the cultural shift he’s had to make. I’d say he’s proven himself to everyone that matters thus far.
I took the "under".
"Thus far"...
being the operative term, of course.
The jury is still decidedly out.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jun 3, 2008 12:40 PM CDT up reply actions
Well, Jer, the jury is decidely out
for the rest of the year, and maybe next, too. Sophomore slump, right? Then the 3rd year is probably a contract year.
I mean, really. Give it time. When you see improvement on almost a daily basis you have to smile a little bit, right? He’s got Gooch range, a better arm, and looks downright comfy at the plate, especially compared to his constant broken-bat dumpy singles his first month. He’ll adjust. (That 2-run double on Sunday was a thing of beauty -fooled on an off-speed pitch, he flicked it into the LF corner). I wasn’t sure he had the talent to hang with the big boys, but I am more confident now that he does.
I took the "under".
LIke I said...
give him a couple hundred plate appearances. Then re-assess.
I remember Craig Wilson looked awesome for a while, too.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jun 3, 2008 1:12 PM CDT up reply actions
the equation according to Tango
for how much to regress is like (x-200)/200. 300 gets you half way there. all of that is iirc, as i can’t remember where i read that.
dude, that was totally not swish you saw on rush street last night. swish was at home playing xbox.
Shrooms, man
West Coast Rules!
I think Jer just likes to antagonize you, like a little brother would.
I took the "under".
Anderson
will see more playing time. Swisher and Konerko will be on the bench more. Swisher at 1B when Konerko is out. Konerko may DH for Thome as well. Can’t continue to ride these ponies when all three of them are scuffling.
KC is our best medicine right now. Actually RAIN is our best medicine right now. Maybe we get three rainouts?!
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
by BobbySouthSide on Jun 3, 2008 11:22 AM CDT up reply actions
I looked at the Trib Sports section this morning,
there’s an almost full-page picture of Eldred on the front page, and I said
“Who the fuck is that?”
Welcome to the AZ SnakePit, the SB Nation blog about the Arizona Diamondbacks.
The first rule of SnakePit is – you do not talk about Carlos Quentin.
The second rule of SnakePit is – you DO NOT talk about Carlos Quentin.
I guess they don't realize what a disaster...
Eldred’s .313 OBP with 13 walks and 66 strikeouts would be.
Well, they ARE the Trib
and aren’t known for putting the Sox’ best feet forward for the fans, you know?
I took the "under".
I don't think so.
If you don’t want to be benched, don’t play like crap. Nobody has the right to a spot in the lineup – that has to be earned.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jun 3, 2008 11:42 AM CDT up reply actions
the point is he's hitting poorly against RHP so far
this year, with a poor BABIP. But he’s got decent splits career-wise.
But maybe the difference is that hitting like crap is not a reason to get benched on our club.
Mosi Tatupu! Mosi Tatupu!
Speaking of the Brewers
I caught some Brewers highlights on ESPN this morning.
Have you seen the size of Prince Fielder? He has to be clocking in around 400 lbs.
And we worry about Juan?
"We're gonna bring it all day, everyday...we're gonna keep grinding it out." - Nick Swisher (4/1/08)
He's not eating meat, either
He must go through a ton of pasta/lettuce a day.
I don’t worry about Juan now that we’ve got ARam.
I took the "under".
Those Tofurkey meals actually have some calories
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tofurkey
When she farts, a little rainbow comes out...
Keith Law on Q
If someone wanted to summarize this that would be super
"I got the shotgun. You got the briefcase. It's all in the game though, right? "
by onlysoxfaninboston on Jun 3, 2008 11:08 AM CDT reply actions
Key quote
KW: “Well the last time we had a contrtoversy like this we went on a 8 game winning streak”.
It’s all about taking the heat off the players. KW’s “throw under the bus” worked to perfection.
Seeing that the "Guess what WU's "CFA means" a few days ago was such a big hit,
I think we need Round II.
Sunday evening, WU posted a game summary for the 6/1 game, the title of which Cheat edited to “Another Terrible Day at the Trop” with the following post,
CHEAT: “I changed your headline when I upgraded this to the front page WU I don’t mind swearing, but didn’t want it in 24 pt font on the top of the site”
OK, what was WU’s original title?
Welcome to the AZ SnakePit, the SB Nation blog about the Arizona Diamondbacks.
The first rule of SnakePit is – you do not talk about Carlos Quentin.
The second rule of SnakePit is – you DO NOT talk about Carlos Quentin.
I was disappointed by what I found
I was hoping for “Another Fucking Terrible Day at the Trop”
Can’t always get what you want, I suppose.
Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos.
any media puke...
... can “predict” a manager will get fired/quit, and they will eventually be right. then they can say they “called it.”
Fortunately, most sport fans on the south side anyway, are smart enough to see through this.
BTW—there was a write-up yesterday on baseball analysts (i think) on how Swisher’s babip is only .200, which means he’s largely been the victim of bad luck so far this season.
I agree with the observations that Ozzie has been pretty on top of it this season—moving Q to #3 pretty early on, dumping Owens, sitting struggling sluggers and/or moving them down in the order. For all the talk about the “lead off position” and other stuff that has driven people crazy, he’s done a pretty good job this year.
Ortiz is out for at least a month
Tendon damage in the wrist.
Maybe Boston will panic and overpay for whatever dregs the Sox offer. Ha ha ha, just kidding.
We can't trade any of the "dregs"
All no trade clauses, unless you trade Swisher and I wouldn’t recommend doing that right now.
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
by BobbySouthSide on Jun 3, 2008 11:29 AM CDT up reply actions
Perhaps State Farm should re-think using an aging veteran next time (hah!)
"We're gonna bring it all day, everyday...we're gonna keep grinding it out." - Nick Swisher (4/1/08)
just be patient, our dregs will come around
Share the passion, show the dregginess!
Mosi Tatupu! Mosi Tatupu!
Can Bonds and Ramirez
exist in the same locker room?? I think the heavens would open up if that were to happen.
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
by BobbySouthSide on Jun 3, 2008 12:47 PM CDT up reply actions
Hm...
You think he’d sign with a team knowing that there’s a good chance that they’d dump him in 4-6 weeks?
by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jun 3, 2008 12:48 PM CDT up reply actions
you already know ortiz isn't going to have surgery?
why not. play for a big team for a while. get a big payday. if they cut you, around the deadline someone is more likely to pick you up if you’ve shown production. who knows. but i know bonds’ agent has put in a call by now.
Remember when the Sox signed Canseco in 2001 to replace an injured Frank at DH?
He was pretty productive to.
At this point, I would not be surprised if the MLB has “black-balled” Bonds and told every team in baseball not to even think about signing him.
any word on the game tonight?
extended my stay in chi for one day just to attend and i will be pissed if it gets cancelled
Pouring here in beautiful Naperville; storms for tonight
"We're gonna bring it all day, everyday...we're gonna keep grinding it out." - Nick Swisher (4/1/08)
50/50 for precip this evening.
scroll down for hour by hour.
When she farts, a little rainbow comes out...
Pouring right now
down in the loop. Thundering real bad….coming down sideways. IF this doesn’t move out by 5 or 6, I would say doubtful game will be played.
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
by BobbySouthSide on Jun 3, 2008 12:25 PM CDT up reply actions
Would there be a day/night DH tomorrow?
I might consider playing hooky.
"We're gonna bring it all day, everyday...we're gonna keep grinding it out." - Nick Swisher (4/1/08)
Not likely.
If today’s game gets rained out, the logical thing to do would be to make it up on July 17. It’s the day after the All-Star Break, both teams are off, and the Royals and Sox are slated to begin a three-game set at Comiskey the next day.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jun 3, 2008 12:36 PM CDT up reply actions
Olney
Writes a lengthy piece about how awful Ozzie’s rant was. If the Sox got on a winning streak he woud back it up with how genius it was for him to take the heat off the players. Its so easy to be a sports writer nowadays.
Who do you blow to get the position?
I know a few frustrated writers that would jump at the chance. (Not me.)
I took the "under".
Some Page 2 chucklehead
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=keown/080603&sportCat=nba
There’s only one logical explanation for Ozzie Guillen: He and Isiah Thomas have the same public-relations people.
I’m a New York writer. Ozzie Guillen is bad. I should compare him to Isiah, who hasn’t had a success since 1989. That’s the ticket
AIM: SouthSideCheat
Response From DeLuca today
I was a little confused by his article today and here is his response:
Bench Swisher.—-Original Message-—
To: De Luca, Christopher
Sent: Tue Jun 03 12:36:31 2008
Subject: Sox Shakeup?Chris, with all due respect, how would you “shake up” the Sox? It is lunch time and I am hungry for some pizza, so I will use this analogy. If I have below grade ingredients and not much else in the cupboard, how am I going to make a fabulous pizza? The Sox are the same way, and you have pointed this out slightly – nothing in the minors and nothing on the bench. So – I am not seeing this so called shake up?
Thanks,
Bob
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
their inability to grasp even the most basic concepts is amazing
if i was this underqualified for my job…
You really see what lack
of intelligence these so called “beat reporters” have. Scary.
He writes an entire article about this big shakeup from within and it is “Bench Swisher”.
God Awful.
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
by BobbySouthSide on Jun 3, 2008 1:22 PM CDT up reply actions
i don't care if they're not intelligent
read about the sport. you don’t have to be particularly intelligent to grasp basic concepts like BABIP and line drive rate and so on.
I am surprised more ballplayers and
coaches don’t go off on these guys more. One thing when your manager or coaches come down on you about your job, but when some idiot who knows nothing about what you do critiques you constantly, that would create me to blow.
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
by BobbySouthSide on Jun 3, 2008 1:30 PM CDT up reply actions
they don't strike me as a particularly curious lot
the fact that they often seem to know far less than fans who read about baseball in their free time makes we wonder what they actually do all day.
I think the job involves little actual analysis of the game (obviously)
It’s mostly about the carnival around the game—the made up melodrama. That’s the stuff that they think interests people, or at least they think that’s mostly what their job is about.
by hitlesswonder on Jun 3, 2008 1:48 PM CDT up reply actions
Seriously?
“Bench Swisher”? That’s it? That will solve the Sox’s problems?
by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jun 3, 2008 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions
i dunno
playing with only 8 fielders seems like a bad idea. may even be against the rules. could be an interesting test case for addition by subtraction, though.
Right field would be an "automatic out"
"We're gonna bring it all day, everyday...we're gonna keep grinding it out." - Nick Swisher (4/1/08)
seriously, though
it’s called “completing a thought.” it’s like when people say a “[insert player’s name] sucks.” okay, maybe that’s defensible but you kind of have to add on a little more information. here, the idea seems to be something out of the underpants gnomes: step 1: bench swisher; step two: ?, step 3: win more games.
What makes it even better is that they think it's such an obvious move.
And that Guillen is idiot for not having done it already.
by hitlesswonder on Jun 3, 2008 1:38 PM CDT up reply actions
Hear, hear
I hate when my friends text, IM, or email me “Swisher sux”... The kneejerk response is of course “I love it when you analyze”
Sadly...I heard WSCR today
On the radio in the car…changed the station quickly, but not fast enough to miss the same solution: Swisher needs to benched (and some blame for KW for not signing Rowand).
If we want to discuss jobs that add little value to the economy, these guys have to be up there.
Swisher is so obviously the one guy in the Thome/Paulie/Swish triumvirate of futility that is likely to improve his production significantly…I don’t know what to say. I mean, I understand the frustration watching him fail against TB, but he should stay in the lineup—I still like the idea of moving him to the #2 spot.
by hitlesswonder on Jun 3, 2008 1:36 PM CDT up reply actions
I heard Rick Telly making this argument on XM
Yeah the Sox issues are they didnt sign Hunter or Rowand. Give me a break.
The SSS motto should be the answer to "What is our deepest fear?". Or maybe just Prozac.
DRINK!
"We're gonna bring it all day, everyday...we're gonna keep grinding it out." - Nick Swisher (4/1/08)
The old guy my Dad schlepped to the game Sunday brought up Rowand
and how stupid it was not to sign him. I almost started convulsing.
I took the "under".
On SCR they noted that the Sox had to give up top prospects for Swisher
Of course, they actually knew how the top prospects are currently performing, they’d be forced to conclude that KW sold high. At this point, Swisher is easily the better bet to produce the most value at the major league (I know, Sweeney has .760 OPS…I’ll still take Swisher).
by hitlesswonder on Jun 3, 2008 1:44 PM CDT up reply actions
I think they add a lot
They focus road rage on White Sox Management instead of at your fellow drivers.
Send him this:
http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2008/6/2/543940/what-s-wrong-with-nick-swi
When she farts, a little rainbow comes out...
don't bother. i can already provide his response.
It simply can’t all be bad luck…
Bad luck doesn’t make a player’s numbers look like Neifi Perez’s. I’m sure that bad luck can make them look worse but not as bad as Swisher’s — .201 / .327 / .307 / .634. If Swisher was at least hitting the occasional homerun to up his SLG, I would buy that… but he isn’t. Is he even on pace for double digit homers this season? That’s ridiculous.
I think Swisher swinging at breaking shit at his shins and also taking two-strike pitches right down the cock of the plate are hurting his numbers.
by SSH2005 on Jun 1, 2008 7:40 PM CDT
I remember that. I think I was an unhappy camper in that thread.
Hee.
When she farts, a little rainbow comes out...
In case you were wondering
His responses are usually very sarcastic. Cowleys are usually that of a 13 year old girl. I’d be interested to see what he says.
Sportswriters hate their jobs...
...no way u can continue doing that gig into your 40’s and 50’s without realizing what a dead-fucking-end it is trying to get a decent quote out of 20 year old ballplayer who makes 100X more than you do. You get bitter. You try to ‘make something happen’... But it’s all b.s. These guys are as useless as Ebert and his dumb-ass thumbs-up, thumbs-down approach to movies. They should all choke on a theater corndog. But seriously folks…
If the White Sox dont play a baseball game soon
The whole world will explode. And can the Sox at least go thru a couple weeks in the Cell vs avg pitching before everyone decides who will never hit or benching Swisher?
The SSS motto should be the answer to "What is our deepest fear?". Or maybe just Prozac.
Seriously Larry
In 3 weeks the offense will experience a mild rebound, and I’ll read a bunch of goofy articles on Ozzie’s wake up call and not much on the competition sucking. I once wrote Greg Couch and asked him how can any of you print half the stuff you do when there is this thing called the WORLD WIDE WEB that any moron can go on and dispute your goofy, made up shit, in 10 minutes.
The SSS motto should be the answer to "What is our deepest fear?". Or maybe just Prozac.
Because
they aren’t that talented and they have to fill up their article with something.
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
by BobbySouthSide on Jun 3, 2008 1:44 PM CDT up reply actions
"The whole world will explode."?
God all fucking mighty, this is more serious than I thought.
Welcome to the AZ SnakePit, the SB Nation blog about the Arizona Diamondbacks.
The first rule of SnakePit is – you do not talk about Carlos Quentin.
The second rule of SnakePit is – you DO NOT talk about Carlos Quentin.
fuck you and your logic
i want to hear more irrational venting out of beat writers about how much Swisher sucks and will never hit. thats the only way i want my sports information delivered. clearly
Only guys with big salaries like me can afford a hat like that... HEY I'm a guy like me!
interesing comment re: chemistry from len kasper on a BP chat
jlarsen (The ‘Burbs): In regards to your “winning leads to chemistry” remark, I think that’s kinda iffy. Look at what is happening with the other 1st place team in Chicago, it seems like it’s kinda cut-throat in the clubhouse.
Len Kasper: Here’s the thing though, and I haven’t followed them that closely, but are you saying that the clubhouse stuff ACTUALLY AFFECTS their play? The Ozzie comments have garnered a lot of attention, but could it be that the environment in the clubhouse has resulted from the play on the field, not the other way around?
Phil Rogers
is a complete asshat. I read his article in today’s tribune and almost puked up my lunch. This “apparent baseball expert” has no effing clue about the Sox. Read this bullshit at your own risk.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/cs-080602-chicago-white-sox-brad-eldred,0,5269612.column
"Still waking up in the mornings with shaking hands"
I prefer "ass clown," but to each his own
"We're gonna bring it all day, everyday...we're gonna keep grinding it out." - Nick Swisher (4/1/08)
there was nothing wrong with that name
until that no talent ass clown became famous and started writing for the tribune.
Only guys with big salaries like me can afford a hat like that... HEY I'm a guy like me!
yeeeaaaaaahhhhh
I’m gonna need you to come in on Saturday. That’d be greaaaaat…
by southsideirish on Jun 3, 2008 3:28 PM CDT up reply actions
Ok, I read it...
While no fan of his, I actually found this to be one of his least offensive efforts. All he did was shrug his shoulders at the options really available to Ozzie/Kenny given the lack of minor league talent and contractual obligations. He threw Bonds out there as “radical” and dismissed it quickly. All in all, a rather ho-hum piece. Written because it’s the topic of the day…
When she farts, a little rainbow comes out...
Typical Rogers -- some decent stuff but more muck
He’s right that Thome and Konerko have hurt the Sox significantly and that until Fields is healthy the Sox have no help in the minors (he used the code words “Brad Eldred” in saying this, but I’m pretty sure that’s what he meant).
But he also:
1) Talks about batting average too much
2) Mentions speed at the top of the order (Owens!)
3) Say the Sox have built an old-style all or nothing offense (never mind the strides they've made in OBP)and most annoyingly manages to downplay acquiring Q by pointing out that KW traded an even better player in Young. That’s the jackass move. If you gave me a choice of Vazquez and Q or Young and Chris Carter, I know which I would choose.
by hitlesswonder on Jun 3, 2008 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions
Well that post got hosed..probably not worth talking about it anyway.
by hitlesswonder on Jun 3, 2008 1:59 PM CDT up reply actions
Don't use tags
use blockquote or the little quotation mark button next to the link
AIM: SouthSideCheat
30 runs in the last 11 games
Lets start there because we dont want the 7 scored in the game before that screwing up the numbers. Pitchers and current stats roughly.
5/22 Laffey 3.02 ERA 1.16 Whip
5/23 Saunders 2.76 ERA 1.09 Whip
5/24 Weaver 4.69 ERA 1.32 Whip
5/25 Lackey 1.80 ERA 1.1 Whip
5/26 Byrd 4.66 ERA 1.26 Whip
5/27 Laffey again
5/28 Westbrook 3.12 ERA 1.15 Whip
5/29 E Jackson 3.70 ERA 1.45 Whip
5/30 J Shields 3.24 ERA 1.15 Whip
5/31 S Kazmir 1.22 ERA .95 Whip
6/1 Sorranstine 4.96 ERA 1.41 Whip
Besides Weaver (who freaking owns them) They pretty much hit the scrubs and struggled against (gasp) good pitchers. I realize the comparsion is basic.
Couple that with some non clutch hitting (Though it amazes me they are hammered for BA with RISP with 2 outs, even though before the Tampa series the RISP overall was prettt decent and you get a media news cycle. Who gives a shit if the hit comes with 2, 1 or 0 outs?
The SSS motto should be the answer to "What is our deepest fear?". Or maybe just Prozac.
Eli
who plans on being a GM in 10 years has a truly original though, Guillen should be fired.
White Sox manager Ozzie Guillen may be a great in-game manager, but away from the field, he is nothing but a distraction. Ozzie recently went off on his team saying changes need to be made, prompting a response from his General Manager: ’’Very interesting, very disappointing,’’ Williams said. ’’It’s never a good idea to throw your boss under the bus, especially when that boss has had his back as much as I have. I guess that lineup will be real interesting to see on Tuesday.” It is obvious that Guillen is on the outs with players and management. He called for changes on Tuesday, saying that he could be fired, or that his hitting coach could be fired: ’’It can be me. It can be [hitting coach] Greg Walker. It can be the players. It could be anybody. I’m sick and tired to watch this thing for a year and a half. I’m not protecting anybody anymore.”
The White Sox are currently in first place by one game, when last year they were 7.5 games out of first, so I don’t really see where he is coming from. The White Sox are on a three game losing streak and if it continues, I wouldn’t be surprised to see him let go. Bench coach Joey Cora has some experience managing and is familiar with the White Sox, so letting Guillen go and naming Cora the manager should make for an easy transition. The White Sox have a great thing going with their veterans working hard and their young players coming through—it is just too bad their big mouth manager has to cause such a disturbance in the clubhouse.Thanks, Eli. That was fucking great.
AIM: SouthSideCheat
And we all know how much professional athletes hate distractions
They want all the media coverage on them!
The SSS motto should be the answer to "What is our deepest fear?". Or maybe just Prozac.
Second paragraph
with the exception of the last sentence is supposed to be blockquoted
AIM: SouthSideCheat
To hell with GM, Eli should be a columnist! He has the answers already!
When she farts, a little rainbow comes out...
you want to impress people, Eli?
how about writing something that hasn’t been written by dozens of published writers already today?
Mosi Tatupu! Mosi Tatupu!
Another useless tool.
“I have a laptop and a blog. I must be important! Just make sure Hizzoner doesn’t speak at my commencement!”
"Still waking up in the mornings with shaking hands"
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