South Side Sox: An SB Nation Community

Navigation: Jump to content areas:



Around SBN: Jays Stun Rays With Walkoff Granny Bar-right-arrows



Calling Youz Lawyers

Any of you guys have an opinion/background/further insight into the Court's ruling on DC v. Heller?  Actually, I'd be interested to hear what you guys think of the court in general right now re: it's makeup and "efficacy". 

Is that 75 words?  Is it now?  Apparently not.  How about I say something that isn't very funny or interesting that just so happens to take up the number of words that I was short by.  Such a thing would not entertain, but it would allow me to post and I won't have to waste time coming up with something to say.

SouthSideSox is a community driven site. As such, users are able to express their thoughts and opinions in a FanPost, such as this one, which represents the views of this particular fan, but not necessarily the entire community or SouthSideSox editors.

0 recs | Comment 35 comments

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Display:

both the majority and stevens' dissent have problems

however, the main problem is that the dope who drafted the second amendment wrote something terribly unclear. i have very little insight into what the guy who wrote it meant; what i do know is that, even if the majority managed to divine it correctly, the unfortunate effect is that gun laws that have contributed to the reduction in violence in inner cities in the past twenty or so years will now be struck. i think local legislatures should be allowed to determine what reasonable controls on gun possession and ownership are appropriate for their localities. the same controls that are reasonable in chicago are not the same as in lubbock.

as for the court as a whole, what’s there to say? it’s a generally conservative court. the next president is likely to make multiple appointments, more likely replacing some so-called liberals than the so-called conservatives.

as for its efficacy, they don’t hear enough cases. i’ve got crap i have to deal with that has one rule in some circuits and another one in others. and they won’t take a case which would resolve it. and the court (and the lower courts, as well) has been politcized to an inordinate degree. the ridiculousness of the confirmation process has horrible effects on the legal system. it boils down to far less about fitness to sit than about the judges’ views. unfortunately, the judges at all levels of the federal judiciary hear cases that are, a vast, vast majority of the time, not about these hot-button issues (though i obviously understand why those attract such attention). so then we’ve got backlogs at all levels of the federal judiciary. the two parties really need to work out a deal to solve the vacancies – but i’ve been saying that one for years.

If there's a baseball equivalent to "never fight a land war in Asia," Vizzini might tell us "never buy the decline years of a player."

by larry on Jul 6, 2008 8:23 PM CDT   0 recs

yeah i couldn't help but think how ridiculous it was to see Scalia feel like he had to literally break down the 2nd Amendment word by word

in 200 years we don’t have a settled opinion on what was meant. But I also fail to see why they heard this case. It’s an awfully local issue and, it would seem, an actually conservative court would feel okay about allowing a city to govern itself at the expense of a single police officer’s off duty weapon.

Also, could you explain how Scalia holds the Second Amendment merely codified a right that already existed? How can a right exist without the contract that forges the right?

are you trying to use stats around here? what the fuck do you think this is? - MM

by colintj on Jul 6, 2008 8:48 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

we have natural rights.

such rights don’t come from man but god. or the ether. or whatever. i believe scalia was likely referring to the natural right of self-preservation. or resistance. or both.

and the above is why it is a conservative decision. even localities can’t mess with natural/constitutional rights.

If there's a baseball equivalent to "never fight a land war in Asia," Vizzini might tell us "never buy the decline years of a player."

by larry on Jul 6, 2008 8:56 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

so that's why "natural" kept coming up in his argument?

besides, there are “natural” rights? that’s news to me. who enforces these rights? the well aimed lightning bolts of God, presumably? does he seriously believe in the idea of natural rights?

are you trying to use stats around here? what the fuck do you think this is? - MM

by colintj on Jul 6, 2008 9:11 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

of course.

i’d probably subscribe to it, too. makes it quite difficult for people to assert that they can take away or limit such rights.

If there's a baseball equivalent to "never fight a land war in Asia," Vizzini might tell us "never buy the decline years of a player."

by larry on Jul 6, 2008 9:19 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I don't think I do. And I don't think I actually agree with the Preamble.

At least in part. I don’t know what God did or didn’t do, but I know that the only punitive bodies I’ve ever run into have been people as far as I can tell. The agreements of people are what determine, for better or worse, what’s permissible for people to do. There’s no room for the unwitnessed metaphysical exploits of God.

are you trying to use stats around here? what the fuck do you think this is? - MM

by colintj on Jul 6, 2008 10:03 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

that's not the preamble, colin.

that’s the declaration of independence.

If there's a baseball equivalent to "never fight a land war in Asia," Vizzini might tell us "never buy the decline years of a player."

by larry on Jul 6, 2008 10:18 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Good discussion

But that just made me laugh my ass off.

by Ozzie Montana on Jul 6, 2008 10:21 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

That's going to hurt the ole credibility

Unexpected brain fart for sure

are you trying to use stats around here? what the fuck do you think this is? - MM

by colintj on Jul 6, 2008 10:40 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

pwned.

fuck you, that's my name!! you know why, mister? 'cause you drove a hyundai to get here tonight, I drove a eighty thousand dollar bmw. that's my name!!

by MarketMaker on Jul 6, 2008 11:13 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

superalcapownedtothemax

are you trying to use stats around here? what the fuck do you think this is? - MM

by colintj on Jul 6, 2008 11:21 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Hell I can't remember freshman Poli Sci

I think it was Locke that Jefferson borrowed the ‘Inalienable Rights’ bit from, only Locke’s Rights were, Life, Liberty, and Property weren’t they?

I believe in Harvey, Illinois

by Hazymania on Jul 7, 2008 12:23 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

yep

are you trying to use stats around here? what the fuck do you think this is? - MM

by colintj on Jul 7, 2008 12:41 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

property-

and that’s why larry wants you off of his lawn. everything comes full circle.

fuck you, that's my name!! you know why, mister? 'cause you drove a hyundai to get here tonight, I drove a eighty thousand dollar bmw. that's my name!!

by MarketMaker on Jul 7, 2008 6:16 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

No, I want you off my lawn.

larry imitates. He’s not old enough to be geniune in his distaste for youth like me.

You POS.

BTW, my new favorite Buffett quote, as related by Ted Forstmann (WSJ 7/5/08):

There are 3 stages to investing- the 3 I’s>

1. Innovation
2. Imitation
3. Idiocy

I believe I stand between #’s 2 and 3 on this site. The diference is – I know it. Many don’t.

CWS: Slashing negative expectations since May, 2008.

by winningugly on Jul 7, 2008 6:30 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

*genuine* WAFM

CWS: Slashing negative expectations since May, 2008.

by winningugly on Jul 7, 2008 6:30 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

#2 can still get you rich, there's nothing wrong with that.

now get off of my steps before i have my doorman call the cops.

fuck you, that's my name!! you know why, mister? 'cause you drove a hyundai to get here tonight, I drove a eighty thousand dollar bmw. that's my name!!

by MarketMaker on Jul 7, 2008 6:55 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Thank goodness, or I'd be broke

as would you, you POS.

How you holding up during this brutality?

CWS: Slashing negative expectations since May, 2008.

by winningugly on Jul 7, 2008 7:01 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

treading water.

which isn’t good because my year has been disappointing considering how i started. trying to get it back on track but this market has very little follow through. longs aren’t good and the shorts are so squeeze happy.

fuck you, that's my name!! you know why, mister? 'cause you drove a hyundai to get here tonight, I drove a eighty thousand dollar bmw. that's my name!!

by MarketMaker on Jul 7, 2008 9:45 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

not to tack on, but for a guy who kept scoffing at the lack of evidence or the poor interpretation thereof, it seems odd that he wouldn't

insist on such for the core of his lawerly philosophy.

are you trying to use stats around here? what the fuck do you think this is? - MM

by colintj on Jul 6, 2008 9:13 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed…

If there's a baseball equivalent to "never fight a land war in Asia," Vizzini might tell us "never buy the decline years of a player."

by larry on Jul 6, 2008 9:24 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

self-evident makes for a convenient legal backbone

are you trying to use stats around here? what the fuck do you think this is? - MM

by colintj on Jul 6, 2008 10:04 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

i think rather the point

is that he was interpreting the clause by how those who wrote it understood it. a basic presumption upon which the republic was founded was that natural rights existed. scalia doesn’t need to find evidence of a metaphysical force or something which confers these rights. he merely needs to find evidence that the people who came up with the clause thought it existed.

If there's a baseball equivalent to "never fight a land war in Asia," Vizzini might tell us "never buy the decline years of a player."

by larry on Jul 6, 2008 10:17 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

ah. well in that case I don't like the idea that we're relying on an 18th century understanding of rights

to inform how we conduct crime reduction in a city with a murder rate that suggests those armed could kick the ever living shit out of the armies of that day.

are you trying to use stats around here? what the fuck do you think this is? - MM

by colintj on Jul 6, 2008 10:45 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

ah. well in that case I don't like the idea that we're relying on an 18th century understanding of rights

to inform how we conduct crime reduction in a city with a murder rate that suggests those armed could kick the ever living shit out of the armies of that day.

are you trying to use stats around here? what the fuck do you think this is? - MM

by colintj on Jul 6, 2008 10:47 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Johnny Two-Times, Johnny Two-Times

I believe in Harvey, Illinois

by Hazymania on Jul 7, 2008 12:24 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

You guys know that Q is a Poli Sci grad?

Just like me!

I find it pretty ironic that the conserative court, whose political appointers so often deride an “activist judiciary”, found the time to rule on a municipal law that has reduced violence in one of the most stricken urban areas in the country.

Natural rights is a big part of American political theory. If you are really bored you could read some Hobbes, and then procede to Locke and Rousseau and then onto the Federalist papers.

by madvillian on Jul 6, 2008 9:36 PM CDT   0 recs

already read them

are you trying to use stats around here? what the fuck do you think this is? - MM

by colintj on Jul 6, 2008 9:58 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I just don't buy the concept that there can exist in any state of being (natural or otherwise) where the rule of men

is any more than what agreements they make with each other. Rights aren’t inalienable, they’re constantly being given and taken away by the assorted semi- and whole governents that pock mark the earth.

are you trying to use stats around here? what the fuck do you think this is? - MM

by colintj on Jul 6, 2008 10:07 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I think what they're talking about

are the rights that men are granted in an orderless society, and that this republic recognizes these rights and builds on top of them.

I believe in Harvey, Illinois

by Hazymania on Jul 7, 2008 12:26 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

If it's a matter of natural rights, the question you need to answer is

In a vacuum outside of a structured polity, do men have rights? From whence did they come? Jefferson/Locke etc would answer that they indeed do, as ordained by God. They are inalienable and cannot be abridged. He says if we would all attune ourselves to the reason which God gave us, we would see the natural law and rights that govern the state of nature. He sees this as a perfect state, but one that is inherently unstable. All you need is one guy to fuck it up and then how are we going to adjudicate the dispute? In order to prevent constant retribution and one-uppings, we as a collective body come together to form a government of some kind.

It sounds pretty okay to me, but the notion that some untenable and possibly never extent state should have any governing power over the humans that forged that contract is silly. Especially if you can’t point me to a time and place God supposedly did these things. Pretending that we understand the will of God is pretty problematic to begin with. Even if all we suppose is that we’re created equal (in what sense equal, btw? equal before God? okay, but that doesnt help if we’re trying to get along without Him in our definitions), isn’t that something that we’re capableof deciding in our contract?

Personally, I see rights as something that requires enforcement. With no government, the enforcers are individuals, who will set themselves up according to their strength, wit (and ability to control BABIP!) and whatever other skills be pertinent. That doesn’t seem like equality to me. Equality before the law is our own invention. But I get the idea I’m railing against an opposition of my own imagining, so I’ll let it go. Thanks for making me break out my copy of 2nd Treatise.

are you trying to use stats around here? what the fuck do you think this is? - MM

by colintj on Jul 7, 2008 1:15 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Natural Rights Critique

This is a pretty good discussion for Sunday night on a baseball board. FWIW, I don’t think there is much to most natural rights jurisprudence. The problem with natural rights (and lots of other good sounding but vague doctrines like “original intent” and “states rights”) is that, because they don’t provide any kind of rigorous definition or parameters, they almost invariably become a rhetorical device to justify whatever the author thinks should happen anyway. Scalia is a fairly typical conservative in the results that he finds desirable. He uses his considerable intellect to construct clever arguments to justify those results but the fact is, he thinks that guns should be readily available so he says “natural rights” support that result (with an side helping of “original intent”) thrown in. A typical liberal justice (is there such a thing anymore?) might just as easily argue that the Lockean natural right of men to to combine in self-governing bodies and make their own laws gives polities the right to regulate arms in their communities. Similarly, they can argue, from the “well-ordered militia” text of the Second Amendment and from various 18th Century sources, that the original intent of the framers was to invest collective bodies, not individuals, with the right of self-defense. Both sides can invoke “natural rights” and “original intent” to support their position and it leads to a stalemate.

As a decent rule of thumb, I don’t think any supposedly principled doctrine is worth much unless it compels its adherents to accept some results that they find undesirable. For example, I believe in the rule of law and and am willing to accept that the operation of that rule will occasionally lead to results that I consider unjust. By contrast, supporters of “states rights” always seem perfectly willing to accept overarching Federal legislation when it supports their desired ends, such as the Fugitive Slave Act or the Defense of Marriage Act. Similarly, “natural rights” advocates hardly ever find such a right that leads anywhere other than where they want to go. I’m hardly a scholar, but has Scalia ever invoked natural rights to achieve a result he didn’t like?

Finally, I find it problematic that something as lofty and timeless as a natural right could be limited by the grungy act of line-drawing that we’re going to get into now. No one, not even Scalia or the NRA, thinks that the Second Amendment means citizens can have rocket launchers, land-mines or tactical nuclear weapons (even though you can make a very good argument that it is precisely those weapons a citizen would need to defend himself against an over-reaching government with a professional army). Some restrictions on arms are going to be Constitutional but where to draw that line is going to be an exercise in years of legislation, litigation and hair-splitting jurisprudence. Is someone really going to say that you have a natural right to CAR-15 carbine limited to semi-automatic operation but not the M-16 fully automatic upgrade? Or that you have a natural right to black-powder explosives but not to C-4? Nonsense – its a legislative exercise in line-drawing and the invocation of “natural rights” doesn’t do anything to help you find where to draw the line.

by Landfill on Jul 6, 2008 10:49 PM CDT   0 recs

I wish I had said some of this.

Wouldve been even better if I said some of that instead of mistaking the declaration for preamble. Anyway, the point you make that I like best is that the court is hardly helping anything. It feels a lot like sophistry whenever I read SC opinions in general, but I wonder why you’re sure Scalia is manufacturing a line of reasoning in service of his pre-set opinion of the matter. It seemed odd, to be sure, that he didn’t(well I read most of it, so maybe he did) address the utility of the law struck down or, if it did indeed have utility, what the city should consider replacing such a law with. Maybe that’s “legislating from the bench” but I don’t think there is a real alternative to that anyway.

are you trying to use stats around here? what the fuck do you think this is? - MM

by colintj on Jul 6, 2008 11:05 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

This is over my head

I’m going back over to Blog-a-Bull to propose implausible trade ideas

by joewho112 on Jul 7, 2008 12:37 PM CDT   0 recs

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Welcome to the SB Nation blog about Chicago White Sox.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Deadhorse_small
Game #139: White Sox (77-61) @ Indians (67-70)

Recent FanPosts

Twinsfix2_small
Hat Tip from Twins Fan to the White Sox
Dsc00361_small
The Adventures of Don Guillote - In Which Uribe Picks Up Some Slaq
Small
Sox Yankees tickets
My_richard_small
Top ten Sox moments this year so far
Bricktop_small
Ozzie Thinks Crede is Done
Unforgiven_small
A Bold Idea
Deadhorse_small
Sox Minor League Update: What's that? Uh -- Playoffs? Don't talk about -- playoffs? You kidding me? Playoffs? I just hope we can win a game!
Small
We're Doomed
Small
Should White Sox fans be pulling for the Twins?

Post_icon New FanPost All FanPosts Carrot-mini

FanShots

Quick hits of video, photos, quotes, chats, links and lists that you find around the web.

Recommended FanShots

Recent FanShots

Jose Contreras' rehab could take up to a year
Bourgeois added to White Sox; Haeger Cut - SUCK ON IT JRE
'Play along on the treadmill to nowhere.'
Sox mum on CQ's outlook
There are limits to change.
Quentin injury worse than originally thought - out until Monday at best
Future of Sports Writing :: USSM
White Sox preparing to expand roster
Meet Carlos Quentin

Post_icon New FanShot All FanShots Carrot-mini


Managing Editor

Thecheatsmoking_small The Cheat

Associate Editors

Sealab_murphy_small colintj

Obama_sox_logo_copy_copy_small thecip

17258_0003_small The Actual El Guapo

Contributing Author

N8614799_37986175_7081_small shaftr

In Memoriam

Acmilan_small The Wizard

ad

Site Meter