The Day the White Sox Lost the Central
When I first heard about the Ken Griffey Jr. trade, I decided to hold off writing about it until it became official. Once it appeared to have significant legs, I decided to wait until the end of the trade deadline to make sense of the Sox roster on the whole. 3 O'clock came and went, and I decided I would wait until I heard Kenny Williams and/or Ozzie Guillen talk about the acquisition. They've both had their say, and I'm sitting here, 8 hours after the deadline, just as confused about the deal as I was 12 hours ago.
Kenny:
'We're not looking for that guy from Seattle. What we're looking for is for you to use your instincts.'
"Center field is actually the easiest of the outfield positions to play from a health perspective. I know that doesn't sound right because you've got to go a lot of left and right, but trust me, it's a little easier to play center field.
"[Instinctively], we feel he's going to give us at least what we were getting out there," Williams added. "Remember, we didn't have the prototypical guy out there in the first place. Swish did a heck of a job, and he'll continue to get some time out there. But he isn't the most prototypical guy that you can put out there, and you don't have to be if you have good baseball instincts."
I'm almost contractually obligated to post my "Where Would He Play" T-shirt here, but now it contains much less irony. (Heck, maybe it's more, but just in a different way.) When the graphic was created, the Sox had 2 entrenched outfielders, with an injured Scott Podsednik in LF and ineffective Carl Everett at DH begging to be replaced. It wasn't exactly hard to find a place to put Griffey. This time, however, the Sox have their most productive corner outfield tandem since Maggs/Lee, and perhaps ever. Meanwhile, Jim Thome, the club's primary DH, has shaken off a slow start to post a near .900 OPS thanks to a two month stretch OPSing over 1.000.
No, Griffey is clearly here to take the place of the struggling Paul Konerko. That might be a decent upgrade if Griffey played 1B. But he doesn't, and Nick Swisher does. Problem solved! Put Griffey in CF, move Swisher to 1B. Brilliant!
Problem: Griffey's fielding
Center Field
UZR: -46 runs per 150 games (2003-2006)
PMR: -44 outs per 150 games (2005-2006)
RZR: -36 outs per 150 games (2004-2006)Right Field
UZR: -16 runs per 150 games (2007)
PMR: -14 outs per 150 games (2007)
RZR: -22 outs per 150 games (2007-2008)Say what you will about individual defensive metrics, but we have a mountain of evidence that Griffey is one of, if not the worst everyday defensive player in the game. You're talking about a guy who's a -15 run corner outfielder when he's completely healthy, which he never is.
Griffey is completely self-aware of his defensive shortcomings. In fact, it was the main reason for the holdup on the trade this morning. Griffey was afraid he would make a fool of himself in center, and had to be convinced by Kenny Williams that everything would be OK. Hence, the quotes above.
Ozzie:
"I'm going to put the best guys I think we have to give us a better chance to win the game," Guillen said. "We brought Junior to play, but if Junior don't play the way we think he should be playing, then we're going to have guys here to replace. We are here to win, and we will see how it works."
That will be Ozzie's challenge. Currently, he's got to bench the guy with the "C" on his jersey, the face of the offense, the guy who took less money to stay. And in the very near future, once he comes to the realization that Griffey is not an option in CF, and a poor one on the corners, he has to squeeze 2 future Hall of Famers and 4 above average talents into just 5 positions. There are bound to be bruised egos to go along with the bruised bodies somewhere along the line.
Having Griffey around as insurance against a case of gigantism seems like a great idea, and rotating him in and out of the lineup to keep everyone fresh seems prudent. Yet, Griffey doesn't exactly add much (if any) value in either of those scenarios, no matter what type of voodoo math you apply.
On the plus side, the Sox gave up a heaping pile of Who Cares? for Griffey, and got the Reds to kick in money (both for this season and next season's buyout) as well. But just because something doesn't cost you much, like say, 50 cents, doesn't mean you should buy it.
Oh... there was a game last night. And it sucked. And there will be a lot written about momentum, and ejections, and stuff being thrown on the field. And not a lick of it will have any staying power as a narrative if the Sox rebound and start kicking ass over the final two months.
I don't think the Sox lost the division today. I'm merely playing off the defeatist attitude that tends to be pervasive on this site.
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I lost a couple of paragraphs in there somewhere while rearranging the order
the main point that’s now missing…
The most laugable aspect of the trade is the fact that the Sox bullpen now sits just 6 members deep. Since January, we’ve been hearing things like “we need 7 men in the pen” and “we need a (mopup) guy who can go multiple innings” yet when the Sox make a trade to acquire a 6th outfielder (7th, if you count Alexei, the opening day CFer) that narrative gets buried. And to top it off the Sox pen allows 6 runs in 2 innings blowing a game to the second-place twins. You just have to laugh.
AIM: SouthSideCheat
adam russel can't be the mop up guy?
"term: pussy, user: larry, count: 11
term: pussy, user: all, count: 83" - wiz
by Where Triples Go to Die on Aug 1, 2008 9:46 AM CDT up reply actions
Get real, Mr. Cheat...
Junior will be fine in center field. It’s an easier position than the corners. I bet you didn’t know that! Don’t you remember how much better our center field defense got when Ozzie replaced Rowand with Everett in 2003 and Anderson with Mackowiak in 2006?
Your insane GM,
Kenny
"god, you’re fucking stupid."
-- Larry
this is especially disappointing when you consider in the off-season kenny could have signed andruw jones.
"fortunately, i'm adhering to a pretty strict, uh, drug, uh, regimen to keep my mind, you know, uh, limber."
by Toonderstrook on Aug 1, 2008 12:26 PM CDT up reply actions
Swisher, Griffey, the Pitching Staff
Swisher at First:
This guy is an awful first baseman.
Why does he want to fall backwards after every single throw over there? Yes
Alexei and Profundo have rocket arms, but not knock you on your ass with a throw arms?
No.
I seem to recall in little league you stretch in the direction of the throw from the bag to catch the ball as far away as possible and still touching first.
This guy has said he always played first until he got to the bigs and then moved to the OF, so you’d think he would know how to play over there.
I just dont see why he wants to bail out when the ball arrives. It sickens me.
Adding the Hall of Famer:
The good news is Swisher was a pretty bad center fielder too, so I thought having Griffey out there would be a push essentially, but those fielding numbers look pretty terrible, even though Im not so sure I know what RZR is. Couple that with the feedback from Cincinatti and this could be pretty shitty.
Our best case scenario has Griffey going all Edmonds for us and steps his game up.
When I first heard the deal on the radio this morning, I was like, ‘sweet!’
But the more I thought about it, the more I was scratching my head like you, da cheat.
My basic opinion on the deal is that it cant really hurt us. He’ll likely take the spot of Wise or Anderson who are essentially the same players. His swing is still sound, right? And .241 is better than our dueling Mendoza’s Swisher and Konerko. If Konerko gets straightened out, then they can interchange the old boys and keep them all fairly fresh without losing a lot of the firepower. Griffey > Wise IMO.
The Sox got to be in first place by pitching pretty well and hitting more HR than any other club. Adding a guy with 608 of them cant really hurt, can it? The team cant change its identity, Ricky Henderson wasnt available on the trade market, so why not reinforce what the team really is.
Piching:
This is where Im a bit concerned. The bullpen is banged up. Milwaukee Linebrink is what I thought we signed all along, even though we got half a year of San Diego Scott. My wife hates Dotel despite my stat based defenses because she says he’s not clutch, and shes not even aware of his shaky closer past. Can Contreras come back with anything at all? Do we have anyone other than Richard that can start? I dont hate Richard, and wouldnt mind him staying on in Masset’s spot, but I rather not have him learn the ropes as a starter. Put him on the Buehrle career path. I cant help but think a Gio Gonzales would be helpful here… Is Poreda ready to go? If 2008 is going to end up like 2005 or even sniff 2005, we need a new Jenks. A kid that is on the farm that can come out of nowhere and help out the squad.
’’We have the horses. Everyone has to stay positive and keep grinding." -Kenny
"Its almost gotten to be obscene that we cant get a man in from third base." -Hawk
Agreed, Swisher's falling over at 1B on low throws is getting very annoying.
"god, you’re fucking stupid."
-- Larry
Great post Cheat
Agree with every word, especially the last paragraph.
If Konerko and Swisher didn't suck so bad
the sox wouldn’t of had to make this move. So maybe Griffey coming in will light a fire under him, which is a possibility. Maybe it will also light one under Konerko and Swisher since they are competing for playing time. Swisher’s missed scoops were pathetic today- as one of the best players on the southside there is no reason why he shouldn’t have at least gotten Uribe’s…..however, Konerko would have probably thrown the force out into left field and we would have been screwed that inning. Oh well, lets just hope the offense gets going….in the very least getting Griffey led to the dismissal of Nick Massett, which was about 4 months over due in my opinion.
Kenwo4life=ratings
Here comes Liriano...
“Has Livan Hernandez made his last start for the Twins?”
"god, you’re fucking stupid."
-- Larry
How much in terms of real runs is it going to cost
two weeks of implementing a platoon at first base?
nothing gets ‘em wetter than infrequent postings on the city’s second favorite team
that WOULD be sweet, but can he play 1st?
has he ever played 1st?
In two weeks they will win 7 or 8 in a row and you all will have 10 inch boners.
have you ever known someone who can't play first?
nothing gets ‘em wetter than infrequent postings on the city’s second favorite team
Toby Hall
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
by BobbySouthSide on Aug 1, 2008 10:52 AM CDT up reply actions
Timo-Timo-bo-bimo-banana-fana-fo-fimo-me-my-mo-mimo-Timo
by The Actual El Guapo on Aug 1, 2008 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions
Mo Vaughn. Dick Stuart.
shaftr, the ghost author. cheat, the never-present manager. colin, the obfuscating author. wiz…well. who the fuck knows. at least he shows up to work.
And, what the hey, as I was looking at this, look what I found re: Junior:
http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/measuring-defense-for-players-back-to-1956-part-2/
Salient point: Rick Monday is at -84, but has been surpassed as the greatest center field defensive liability by Ken Griffey Jr. (-94)
shaftr, the ghost author. cheat, the never-present manager. colin, the obfuscating author. wiz…well. who the fuck knows. at least he shows up to work.
2 innings. fielding percentage = 1.000. sounds like a plan.
"fortunately, i'm adhering to a pretty strict, uh, drug, uh, regimen to keep my mind, you know, uh, limber."
by Toonderstrook on Aug 1, 2008 12:30 PM CDT up reply actions
You were all over this yesterday.
I was paying attention.
shaftr, the ghost author. cheat, the never-present manager. colin, the obfuscating author. wiz…well. who the fuck knows. at least he shows up to work.
I was askin' 'bout you yesterday.
Still getting down with the sickness?
"just realized the superman uni is barely visible but slightly protruding out of his jersey. and i began to slightly protrude out of my pants." - MM
by homesickalien on Aug 1, 2008 12:35 PM CDT up reply actions
Cute. You are correct - Chiburb's not long for this world. Older than dirt.
HSA will need a guide.
shaftr, the ghost author. cheat, the never-present manager. colin, the obfuscating author. wiz…well. who the fuck knows. at least he shows up to work.
Never too late to move to Utah
Or is it just the next ex-Mrs. WU?
;-)
"would've been a sweep if pablo was here" -Kenwo-
Geez, I meant as a paternal figure.
Like Jim Jones. You POS.
shaftr, the ghost author. cheat, the never-present manager. colin, the obfuscating author. wiz…well. who the fuck knows. at least he shows up to work.
Better. Thanks for asking.
shaftr, the ghost author. cheat, the never-present manager. colin, the obfuscating author. wiz…well. who the fuck knows. at least he shows up to work.
"Defeatest attitude?"
Seriously? That’s a BS call! Booooo! (Throws baseballs onto the field in a totally mature tantrum.)
Optimist
Yes, I take offense to that too.
Bobby: {takes of Sox cap and drop kicks it in cubicle} “GOOOOOOOODDDDDDDAAAAAAAAMMMMMMMIIIIIIIIITTTTTT PUNTO!”
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
by BobbySouthSide on Aug 1, 2008 8:40 AM CDT up reply actions
"And there will be a lot written about momentum, and ejections, and stuff being thrown on the field."
I hope you have a long post on the fan and Twins’ manager’s behaviour. As a long time White Sox fan, I have witnessed my share of bad manager and fan behavior. Never though have I witnessed anything even close to the behavior at the Twins game on August 31. The Manager’s excessive behavior went way beyond what was called for and it served to incite the crowd to a level of behavior that I find hard to believe. Their organization was tarnished last night. I for one will never attend another game at the metrodome. The event was an embarassing one especially for an organization that likes to present itself as somehow more moral than other organizations. It did affect the outcome of the game. That is not the whole point though. The events of the sevent inning should have led to a forfiet.
"As more moral than other organizations."
God, that’s the truth. What a sanctimonious bunch.
Optimist
jesus
it was fuck all man, if that’s all you’ve got to worry about then that’s very sad. It’s not as if they were throwing broken bottles, you should come over here and see some real fan violence
Sox fan from England, marching on together
Curious Ethics
For fear of prolonging this thread which I probably should not have started… So your point is until fans get that bad anything goes? Great moral positioning.
I think what may be lost on you, and others, is how Twinkies fans tend to think that they are better than other fans
because of their lack of rowdy behavior.
What illustrates this point is how they call Sox fans trash and refer to the incidents at Comiskey where fans ran onto the field to attack a first base coach to prove their point.
Their moral high ground attitude was most recently on display in the comment section of a post / article by Cowley regarding the Twins. Sorry I’m too lazy to post a link.
read the whole thing you stroke artist - kenwo4life
Not lost on me
It’s not lost on me, I live up here. I see it every moment of the season….
It was meant to be a response to hoodlight
I figured you would know what I was talking about.
A rear view mirror never looked so good as when I moved out of the Twin Cities.
read the whole thing you stroke artist - kenwo4life
Im glad you care about whats really important. Cant have fans getting rowdy, its just not classy.
I tell myself, 'You are a superstar, don't worry about it. You'll be all right.' - Carlos Gomez
by omnipotent grab on Aug 1, 2008 9:13 AM CDT up reply actions
Rowdy?
Don’t you think rowdy is one thing; Delaying the game another?
Throwing crap onto the field, yet another.
I get rowdy at games.
I don’t interfere with the game.
"just realized the superman uni is barely visible but slightly protruding out of his jersey. and i began to slightly protrude out of my pants." - MM
by homesickalien on Aug 1, 2008 10:20 AM CDT up reply actions
rowdy? what do you mean rowdy? spread out
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0026479/quotes
The greatest trick the White Sox ever pulled was convincing their fan base that "Ozzieball" ever existed.
Aug 31st? What year?
(It probably was embarassing for the Twinks organization, though Gardy did his best to stir it up.)
shaftr, the ghost author. cheat, the never-present manager. colin, the obfuscating author. wiz…well. who the fuck knows. at least he shows up to work.
Additional Note
I forgot to add I live in Minnesota, and I attended the game.:)
Nice place to visit
sorry to hear you witnessed that shit fest in person.
read the whole thing you stroke artist - kenwo4life
Griffey
I was upset at first, wondering like most of you where he will play. But, then I thought about it and have changed my mind a bit. We didn’t hurt the current roster, probably helped it by getting rid of the black hole that is known as Masset. Richar will be a Utility guy at best.
So, we didn’t hurt the current roster and we added a guy that can still get hot and hit better than anyone on our bench. True he doesn’t really have a position on this team and I hope to god we don’t stick him in CF for any extended period of time. But, he is a guy we can rotate in the lineup when other guys are struggling (currently Konerko).
I guess we all hope he catches lightening in a bottle for two months, but even a couple of weeks and we make out in this trade.
Now, should we have tried for bullpen help after watching last night’s boot to the gut, looks like it.
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
But can he play leadoff?
DEAD HORSE BE DAMNED!
I’M BRINGING IT BACK!
"would've been a sweep if pablo was here" -Kenwo-
I only like it because
it forces Ozzie to deal with PK immediately. If he takes Konerko’s ABs away, hey, Griffey’s a HOFer and PK doesn’t get completely ruined. Probably relieves a lot of pressure simmering in the clubhouse.
Show mercy. I get to watch the Rangers.
by Tim from Texas on Aug 1, 2008 2:42 PM CDT up reply actions
Sure- you live in Texas
You have (as Ron White says) and express lane for Old Sparky.
shaftr, the ghost author. cheat, the never-present manager. colin, the obfuscating author. wiz…well. who the fuck knows. at least he shows up to work.
is it defeatism
if you are in fact doomed?
by The Actual El Guapo on Aug 1, 2008 8:51 AM CDT reply actions
is this about the playoffs?
What’s not being discussed here, or anywhere, is that Griffey’s OPS against righties is a full 100 points higher for his career than lefties—and it’s roughly .950. Anaheim, Boston, Tampa and the Yanks all have 4 right handers in their current rotations. Could Kenny have made this move with the playoffs in mind?
Yes.
"just realized the superman uni is barely visible but slightly protruding out of his jersey. and i began to slightly protrude out of my pants." - MM
by homesickalien on Aug 1, 2008 9:15 AM CDT up reply actions
With our bullpen reverting to last year
I don’t want to be a sad face, but if the pen doesn’t improve, this team is headed for a familiar ending.
I was a multiple time all star throughout my little league career. Won 5 championships- 4 in a row- thats more in a row than MJ… (kenwo4life@aol.com)
by Ozzie Montana on Aug 1, 2008 9:47 AM CDT up reply actions
Team meeting.
Konerko doesn’t chair.
Pitching, defense and health.
He gets the chair - Old Sparky. Bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.
shaftr, the ghost author. cheat, the never-present manager. colin, the obfuscating author. wiz…well. who the fuck knows. at least he shows up to work.
laughed at that one
Show mercy. I get to watch the Rangers.
by Tim from Texas on Aug 1, 2008 3:19 PM CDT up reply actions
Right,
which is why I wish KW spent the energy pursuing pitching help rather than another imperfect solution to CF, a vacancy that remains unfilled since the departure of Rowand. As I posted way back in May, this team will live and die by its bullpen. I think it could survive subpar performance from Paulie if the pitching were there. Last night revealed how dreadful it is becoming.
i agree in theory. but the key bullpen guys, arguably marte aside, ended up staying put.
lots of teams other than the sox could use bullpen help. that guys didn’t move indicates the teams with the pieces wanted the moon and well, the sox have a couple of craters.
"fortunately, i'm adhering to a pretty strict, uh, drug, uh, regimen to keep my mind, you know, uh, limber."
by Toonderstrook on Aug 1, 2008 7:09 PM CDT up reply actions
Hiroshima, Japan. August 6, 1945:
“That single bomb falling from the sky won’t destroy our entire city. Trust me.”
Property of: PAUL KONERKO Track and Field Academy & Steakhouse
June 2, 1340. Genoa, Italy.
“A few fleas buzzing around some rats on that ship from Central Asia? Get real, dude, what harm could they do?”
by The Actual El Guapo on Aug 1, 2008 11:02 AM CDT up reply actions
September 3, 1929. Wall Street, NY, NY:
“It’s just a correction. Hold tight. It’ll come back. Bet the farm.”
shaftr, the ghost author. cheat, the never-present manager. colin, the obfuscating author. wiz…well. who the fuck knows. at least he shows up to work.
End of the Permian Geologic Era. Pangea:
“This extinction event won’t be all that severe, I’m sure. Just a few species here and there—nothing to worry about.”
by The Actual El Guapo on Aug 1, 2008 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions
A very long time ago. Heaven:
“Sure I’ll create the universe, its not like they’re gonna crucify my son or anything.”
Property of: PAUL KONERKO Track and Field Academy & Steakhouse
Mordor - End of the 1st Age:
“Ah, I’ll just make this pretty golden ring. It’s not like it’s going to be all evil and take possession of my soul, or cause me to create an army of orcs and nazgul and stuff and be all mean to the nice elves, dwarves, men and hobbits.”
/dweeb.
by The Actual El Guapo on Aug 1, 2008 11:26 AM CDT up reply actions
After this coming weekend
The White Sox have 30 home games and 22 away. The Twins have 21 at home and 30 on the road, including a 13 game west coast trip.
Optimist
Cmon now don't use any reason!
No fair.
The SSS motto should be the answer to "What is our deepest fear?". Or maybe just Prozac.
Steve Stone tidbit.
Of the Twins 51 remaining, 9 are with the Seattle Mariners (41 – 67, worst in AL).
Pitching, defense and health.
True but 6 of them are still on the road.
The SSS motto should be the answer to "What is our deepest fear?". Or maybe just Prozac.
riglemann is doing a heck of a job
The greatest trick the White Sox ever pulled was convincing their fan base that "Ozzieball" ever existed.
Boy, that debacle of a game last night couldn't have come at a worse time.
KW just makes another risky, high-profile trade that begs a jumbled mess of questions such as, “Who’s on 1st?” and “What about a relief pitcher?!”
Last night’s game seemed a live-action mockery of the trade.
Swisher’s on 1st. Nooooo problem there. Assuming every ball thrown to him is perfect and he is able to stay upright, foot on bag.
And in terms of relief pitchers – Logan looked perfectly in control. So did Dotel. What was it? – 70-some-odd pitches in 2 innings!? Yeah, we don’t need to think about pitching when we got a line-up full of power-hitters. And to our line-up’s credit, 6 runs should be enough to win a ball game.
Unfortunately, the Twins were able to match that score with 2 swings of the bat.
It was ugly all-around. We shoulda fought for that forfeit and saved all the embarrassment that followed. Too bad the Twins fans didn’t keep up their classiness just a few minutes longer…
"just realized the superman uni is barely visible but slightly protruding out of his jersey. and i began to slightly protrude out of my pants." - MM
Still take it with a grain of salt
There is something unholy going on in that dome and them batting with RISP.
The SSS motto should be the answer to "What is our deepest fear?". Or maybe just Prozac.
That place gives me the heebie-jeebies.
Grain of salt taken – I’m not “season is ovaaa-ing” or anything – I still think we have it…
I just thought the timing of that performance was quite inappropriate.
"just realized the superman uni is barely visible but slightly protruding out of his jersey. and i began to slightly protrude out of my pants." - MM
by homesickalien on Aug 1, 2008 9:59 AM CDT up reply actions
I love this team
But if a playoff berth is going to be decided at a series in that craptacular dome, well I will be google image searching “angst” quite often.
I was a multiple time all star throughout my little league career. Won 5 championships- 4 in a row- thats more in a row than MJ… (kenwo4life@aol.com)
by Ozzie Montana on Aug 1, 2008 10:02 AM CDT up reply actions
We can only hope it does not come down to that....
I’ll be google-searching “creative ways to kill yourself.”
I want to go out creatively.
"just realized the superman uni is barely visible but slightly protruding out of his jersey. and i began to slightly protrude out of my pants." - MM
by homesickalien on Aug 1, 2008 10:09 AM CDT up reply actions
A few things about the game last night:
1. Once again, the game turned on a walk to a light-hitting player - Danks’ walk to Span after L’Affaire du Pierzynski #14513453592352502. The Twins are actually a pretty simple team at this point: 2 outstanding players (Mauer/Morneau), 1 or 2 ok players (Kubel/Cuddeyer when he’s in) and a bunch of light-hitting slappy-types (currently - they obviously have young guys who will likely improve dramatically). The key: DO NOT WALK THE SLAPPY GUYS. Admittedly, it’s probably disorienting to play a team like this in the era of Everyone Can Hit a Homer, but this team can’t, so don’t pitch to them like they can.
2. Did anyone else think that a gold-glove SS should have made the play on the Mauer single that tied the game? I didn’t read the game thread so maybe this came up, but the ball was hit hard, but nearly right at Ocab. Not saying it was not a difficult play, but … well, the Uribe of 2005 likely makes it IMO. I like OCab, but that was a rather large play.
3. Thornton looked like a freakin’ deer in the headlights last night. I don’t usually put much stock in major league players “playing scared” thing, but in these unique circumstances, it may have applied.
4. Q and JD are gods.
5. Two 2-out 3-run homers. Unfuckingbelieveable.
by The Actual El Guapo on Aug 1, 2008 10:04 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
No your not alone.
I thought a simliar thing about the Mauer single. I thought OC at least should have knock it down.
The SSS motto should be the answer to "What is our deepest fear?". Or maybe just Prozac.
Agreed. It doesn't help that Mauer/Morneau are seemingly always at the plate with slappy RISP.
2.) Yes. And Uribe had a GREAT play at 3rd that should have been caught by our swaggering “1st-baseman.”
4.) GODS. I’m a believer. And I love that they are both so low-key and modest. I’m going to start organizing formal worships.
6.) In regard to CF play – Wise made a big amateur mistake of diving for the web-gem catch, rather than staying in front of the ball. We all knew he wasn’t making that catch. And it allowed for those slappy ducks to waddle right on home.
We need a CF.
"just realized the superman uni is barely visible but slightly protruding out of his jersey. and i began to slightly protrude out of my pants." - MM
by homesickalien on Aug 1, 2008 10:16 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Transaction Analysis
Acquired OF-L Ken Griffey Jr. from the Reds for 2B-L Danny Richar and RHP Nick Masset. [7/31]
Getting Griffey cost the Sox nothing that they’ll miss, so on that level, this is a great deal. Setting aside where he’ll play for a moment, a team counting on a notoriously fragile player like Jim Thome could use an extra bat in case the DH breaks down, or if Jermaine Dye has another one of his catastrophic injuries, or should plunk-happy Carlos Quentin run one risk too many hanging over the plate and taking one for the team that he should have ducked. Strictly as a matter of depth, it’s a good pickup. As a way to take Paul Konerko out of the lineup now and again, it also makes sense, sort of, but keep in mind that Griffey really isn’t hitting well, having only delivered a pretty pedestrian .277 EqA (the position’s average is .271), with his best feature being a park-aided .261/.373/.452 against right-handers (while disappearing against lefties), but that immediately invites a reference to his hitting only .237/.347/.411 outside of the Rhineland bandbox that the Reds call home. If that’s more along the lines of what the Sox might expect, you can reasonably wonder if they weren’t better off just accepting that kind of production from a person named Dewayn Wise instead of one named Ken Griffey.
Playing Griffey also comes with risks, unless of course he dons a glove and plays a bit of first. That’s because Griffey in the lineup could also involve the risk of their employing Thome at first base, or Griffey in center, and of those two options, the former’s a potentially unacceptable risk, while the latter simply is an unacceptable risk. As Marc Normandin noted in anticipation of the deal, three-fifths of the Sox rotation is made up of fly-ball pitchers, and while they’ve survived Nick Swisher’s game efforts in center, running Griffey back out there might test those hurlers beyond a defensive breaking point. If, as rumored, Griffey only agreed to the deal in return for a guarantee that he’d start in center, you wind up with a player demanding and getting something he shouldn’t have asked for if helping his new team was on his agenda, and worse yet getting it from a team that should know better, especially when it should be focused on taking its best shot at a division title.
The SSS motto should be the answer to "What is our deepest fear?". Or maybe just Prozac.
I didn't get the impression Griffey demanded to play center
I think that depiction is inaccurate.
The SSS motto should be the answer to "What is our deepest fear?". Or maybe just Prozac.
Easily done - quite practiced.
;)
shaftr, the ghost author. cheat, the never-present manager. colin, the obfuscating author. wiz…well. who the fuck knows. at least he shows up to work.
Welcome back, kid.
shaftr, the ghost author. cheat, the never-present manager. colin, the obfuscating author. wiz…well. who the fuck knows. at least he shows up to work.
Also Griffrey's .277 EqA
Now ranks 4th among the starters behind the big 3 (Q, Dye and Thome). Quite frankly the Sox will need the added offense to combat the regression in pitching. After sleeping on it, I now really especially like the move from the added depth angle. The Sox could not overcome any injury to the big 3. And no I don’t think Wise could make up that gap moving forward.
The SSS motto should be the answer to "What is our deepest fear?". Or maybe just Prozac.
"If, as rumored,
Griffey only agreed to the deal in return for a guarantee that he’d start in center, you wind up with a player demanding and getting something he shouldn’t have asked for if helping his new team was on his agenda, and worse yet getting it from a team that should know better, especially when it should be focused on taking its best shot at a division title.”
The hell did that come from?
by The Actual El Guapo on Aug 1, 2008 10:15 AM CDT reply actions
(Think "Trading Places".)
Where’s larry? Where the hell is larry?
(larry with gorilla head taped on him, in cage with K-Wo gorilla headed to KC for the game tonight. Looks exhausted and defeated after being rectally tortured all night. K-Wo gorilla smiling broadly.)
shaftr, the ghost author. cheat, the never-present manager. colin, the obfuscating author. wiz…well. who the fuck knows. at least he shows up to work.
Looking for Chicago Pete, remember???
"just realized the superman uni is barely visible but slightly protruding out of his jersey. and i began to slightly protrude out of my pants." - MM
by homesickalien on Aug 1, 2008 10:17 AM CDT up reply actions
My wife's all time favorite movie.
by The Actual El Guapo on Aug 1, 2008 10:33 AM CDT up reply actions
I like your wife already.
You, we’re still deciding. Too peripatetic.
shaftr, the ghost author. cheat, the never-present manager. colin, the obfuscating author. wiz…well. who the fuck knows. at least he shows up to work.
[Draws switchblade]
Say what you want about me and my wife, but stay away from my parapet, man.
by The Actual El Guapo on Aug 1, 2008 10:47 AM CDT up reply actions
By the way, I dig the title, Cheat - reminds me of
“The Day The Earth Stood Still”. Klaatu, baratta, nikto and all. Perhaps Junior is here to deliver a warning to the Sox: “Pitching and defense win championships.”
shaftr, the ghost author. cheat, the never-present manager. colin, the obfuscating author. wiz…well. who the fuck knows. at least he shows up to work.
I'm not optomistic about this
it reminds me way too much of the ErastaDL situation.
Oh well, since I wasn’t consulted on the acquisition, I’ll just sit back and watch the show.
read the whole thing you stroke artist - kenwo4life
last night was not as bad as Tuesday
only because they had a flight waiting to leave Minnesota last night. Hopefully, by the time we get back there in Sept, the Twins have come back down to earth, and started playing like a team with
- a leadoff guy with a .289 OBP
- black holes in 3/4 of their infield, at least until Casilla comes back
—unsustainable (right? right?) avg w/RISP
I'm like a laser, six-string razor. I've got a mouth like an alligator
"unsustainable (right? right?)"
Talk to Colin. He’s the Twins expert.
Pitching, defense and health.
Re: last night's game
BLARRGGHH, but still trying to stay positive.
/repeats to self – just remember you didn’t expect them to compete this year, just remember you didn’t expect them to compete this year….LOSING TO THE FUCKING TWINKIES IN THAT SHIT HOLE DOME AGAIN?! RELIEVER MELT DOWN
?! GODDAMN FUCKING TWINKINES! I HATE FUCKING TWINKIES!!!
Niesheik? Dead! Mauer? Dead! Baker? Dead!
Yeah, it was just one game. A game that I didn’t even watch, but I really can’t stand the Twins, their crappy fair-weather fans, and that stupid dome. Yes, for me, it is personal.
It pains me to see them play so far over their heads and be so goddamn competitive. If our pitching and defense are regressing to the mean, why the fuck aren’t their BA w/ RISP and win total regressing to the mean as well? We’re getting screwed, I tells ya!
read the whole thing you stroke artist - kenwo4life
by rhythm on Aug 1, 2008 11:41 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
I knew the game was over...
as soon as Dotel came in. There wasn’t a doubt in my mind that the Twins were going to score multiple runs in that inning.
The Sox bullpen is a complete mess. Jenks is the only good pitcher in the lot.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on Aug 1, 2008 12:20 PM CDT up reply actions
relative to what? other relievers in the bigs?
if that’s what you’re saying, your thornton and dotel hate are not supported by the record.
"fortunately, i'm adhering to a pretty strict, uh, drug, uh, regimen to keep my mind, you know, uh, limber."
by Toonderstrook on Aug 1, 2008 12:48 PM CDT up reply actions
THANK YOU MR. CHEAT!
Oh, wow.
First off I don’t care about Griffey. If he can play, great. If not, shrug. Oh well.
I came here because I got more angry yesterday after losing that game than I have been in awhile, and I don’t know why. I finally came here today after listening to some happy music to read yall’s fancy comments on the horrible game.
I see the title “The Day the White Sox Lost the Central” and felt redeemed that I was going to get what I expected. I read the whole post, not getting what I expected. Then at the bottom I got slapped in the face by…
I don’t think the Sox lost the division today. I’m merely playing off the defeatist attitude that tends to be pervasive on this site.
That’s awesome. Thanks. I’m now happy again and ready for tonight’s game. Go Sox!
What's stunning to me...
is that Williams seems to think that center field is a way to keep Griffey healthy, ignoring the fact that the center fielder needs to, you know, occasionally catch the ball.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on Aug 1, 2008 12:02 PM CDT reply actions
I guess his theory is in CF there's only one wall to run into
otherwise in left or right you may pull a Swisher and run into the foul side walls
/sarcasm
-Jeeves Life in the Cell
As a fan, I'm actually excited
about the idea of Griffey being on this team. The biggest problem with the trade isn’t what the Sox gave up (next to nothing—or in Masset’s case, addition by subtraction) or necessaily the talent of the ballplayer (decent left handed bat that has been hitting well the past month). The biggest problem seems to be the name of the player. If the player’s name was “Blum,” we would say that it was decent move because if used correctly he can spell certain players, and he’s a nice bat off the bench. But the player’s name is Griffey. Obviously we all fear that he will be asked to do things that he shouldn’t be doing at this point in his career. The trade is not a bad one. How the new player is utilized might be the problem. Only time will tell that.
no way kenny could land an arm with masset and richar
at least not anything better than what we have in AA/AAA
The greatest trick the White Sox ever pulled was convincing their fan base that "Ozzieball" ever existed.
WGN-TV says griffey will be in the starting lineup tonight
The greatest trick the White Sox ever pulled was convincing their fan base that "Ozzieball" ever existed.
Where in the lineup? What position?
shaftr, the ghost author. cheat, the never-present manager. colin, the obfuscating author. wiz…well. who the fuck knows. at least he shows up to work.
Leading off, playing catcher
That would thrown everyone for a loop, no?
"would've been a sweep if pablo was here" -Kenwo-
if they had reported that too
I would/’e mentioned it!
The greatest trick the White Sox ever pulled was convincing their fan base that "Ozzieball" ever existed.
Well, then, speculate! (Or others can.)
Hitting 5th, playing CF. (Ouch, ouch, ouch.)
shaftr, the ghost author. cheat, the never-present manager. colin, the obfuscating author. wiz…well. who the fuck knows. at least he shows up to work.
If he plays first, will he fall on his ass everytime he picks a throw?
"Everybody looks at the Cubs. Look at the White Sox. They're a pretty good ballclub." - Lou Piniella (6/29/08)
if he wears swisher's number yes
The greatest trick the White Sox ever pulled was convincing their fan base that "Ozzieball" ever existed.
it's an interesting question.
with thome hitting so well of late, can’t see ozzie bumping him down to 6th. and putting griffey either at 5th or 6th means two lefties in a row, and ozzie isn’t a fan of that either, quentin/dye at 3 and 4 aside. that’s why i guessed 2nd last night.
"fortunately, i'm adhering to a pretty strict, uh, drug, uh, regimen to keep my mind, you know, uh, limber."
by Toonderstrook on Aug 1, 2008 1:16 PM CDT up reply actions
AJ or Jr hitting 2nd
Not your typical guys in that slot. So AJ goes down to 7th or 8th?
But your point re: Thomer is a good one. I might put Jr. 6th, then. What’s the lowest and highest in the order he hit for Cincy? I just can’t see him hitting 2nd, for some reason.
shaftr, the ghost author. cheat, the never-present manager. colin, the obfuscating author. wiz…well. who the fuck knows. at least he shows up to work.
6th makes sense in the abstract.
i just don’t see ozzie going righty-righty at 3/4 and lefty-lefty at 5/6. and like you say, aj hitting 2nd is strange as well. looking at the career splits (too lazy to look year to year to see when the plate appearances actually occurred), griffey has twice as many plate appearances hitting 2nd (302) and 6th (136). of course, he has almost twice as many (553) hitting 5th as 2nd. seems, though, that it wouldn’t make much sense to bump thome when he’s been hitting well. so if ozzie chooses not to bump thome, griffey will be hitting in a somewhat unfamiliar spot in the order regardless.
"fortunately, i'm adhering to a pretty strict, uh, drug, uh, regimen to keep my mind, you know, uh, limber."
by Toonderstrook on Aug 1, 2008 1:29 PM CDT up reply actions
In truth,
it would actually probably make more sense to move Thome to 2nd and bat Griffey 5th, since Thome’s OBP is obviously higher and the Sox already have plenty of power later in the lineup.
No way in hell that happens, though, so I agree it is likely that Griffey hits 2nd. If you buy into the whole stathead thing, lineup order is not all that significant anyway.
by The Actual El Guapo on Aug 1, 2008 1:53 PM CDT up reply actions
Boy, that's a helluvan idea (Thomer to 2nd). I liked him leading off
last year, so 2nd isn’t far-fetched. But seeing the career stats for KGJ I bet he, indeed, does hit 2nd.
Though I’ll keep it at 6th for tonight. ‘Cause I’m stubborn.
shaftr, the ghost author. cheat, the never-present manager. colin, the obfuscating author. wiz…well. who the fuck knows. at least he shows up to work.
I always thought they should lead Frank off.
Especially early in his career, when he was more Auburn tight-end-ish.
by The Actual El Guapo on Aug 1, 2008 1:59 PM CDT up reply actions
So it would be:
OCab (SS) (R)
Griffey (CF) (L)
Q (LF) (R)
JD (RF) (R)
Thome (DH) (L)
Swish (1B) (S)
Fields (3B) (R)
AJ© (L)
Slash (2B) (R)
I assume AJ goes 8th, otherwise you have 3 straight righties in Ramirez, Fields and OCab. I gotta say, just looking at it, that looks like kind of a good lineup (putting defense aside, of course).
by The Actual El Guapo on Aug 1, 2008 2:20 PM CDT up reply actions
id swap Thome with Dye and Swisher with AJ
R Cabrera
L Griffey
R Quentin
L Thome
R Dye
L AJ
R Fields
S Swish
R Ramirez
’’We have the horses. Everyone has to stay positive and keep grinding." -Kenny
"Its almost gotten to be obscene that we cant get a man in from third base." -Hawk
Grieffy will ...
Why’s everybody so damned upset about Griffey? By the 3rd inning in KC tonight, he’ll have blown out his (fill in the blank of your favorite muscle group), Wise will come in and everything will be back to the way it was.
except masset won't be in the 'pen. so better than the way it was, right?
"fortunately, i'm adhering to a pretty strict, uh, drug, uh, regimen to keep my mind, you know, uh, limber."
by Toonderstrook on Aug 1, 2008 12:50 PM CDT up reply actions
Is it too late to get Wunsch or Shingo back?
"Everybody looks at the Cubs. Look at the White Sox. They're a pretty good ballclub." - Lou Piniella (6/29/08)
Yep...remember the "gong"? "It's Shingo time!"
"Everybody looks at the Cubs. Look at the White Sox. They're a pretty good ballclub." - Lou Piniella (6/29/08)
I know you're jesting (sort of), but...
he probably is an injury waiting to happen. He’s played quite a bit over the last few years, however in ‘02, ‘03, and ‘04, he only played 70, 53 and 83 games respectively.
"Everybody looks at the Cubs. Look at the White Sox. They're a pretty good ballclub." - Lou Piniella (6/29/08)
Fortunately for us
We only need him for about (55+11) 66 games. Should be easy for him.
"would've been a sweep if pablo was here" -Kenwo-
You have to give Kenny the benefit of the doubt
He brought us Quentin, Dye, Contreras, Jenks, Thornton, Alexei, Thome, Cabrera, Pierzynski and most importantly a World Series Championship. All moves that were questioned or didn’t matter at the time. All moves that worked out great for the Sox.
You just have to figure KW is like Kramer, he doesn’t make sense but it works out for him in the end.
In Griffey's case, this also fulfills one of Kenny's mancrushes
"Everybody looks at the Cubs. Look at the White Sox. They're a pretty good ballclub." - Lou Piniella (6/29/08)
I predict...
The A.L. Central will not be decided until the Sox and Minnesota’s last series of the year. So, whoever can get the best of Cleveland or KC will get the golden ring.
"Everybody looks at the Cubs. Look at the White Sox. They're a pretty good ballclub." - Lou Piniella (6/29/08)
Narya?
Do we have to throw it into the Cracks of Doom to save all of Middle Earth? I’m confused. I thought it was the Brass Ring.
shaftr, the ghost author. cheat, the never-present manager. colin, the obfuscating author. wiz…well. who the fuck knows. at least he shows up to work.
Hah...I am such a friggin' dork...best I back away from the keyboard
"Everybody looks at the Cubs. Look at the White Sox. They're a pretty good ballclub." - Lou Piniella (6/29/08)
and don't forget that
The good news: With Ken Griffey Jr. joining Jose Canseco and Steve Sax as temporary members of the White Sox, they now have claimed one-third of Mr. Burns’ softball team.
from jim @ sm
The greatest trick the White Sox ever pulled was convincing their fan base that "Ozzieball" ever existed.
Can Strawberry come out of retirement/jail/rehab?
shaftr, the ghost author. cheat, the never-present manager. colin, the obfuscating author. wiz…well. who the fuck knows. at least he shows up to work.
Mark McGwire?
"Everybody looks at the Cubs. Look at the White Sox. They're a pretty good ballclub." - Lou Piniella (6/29/08)
I'd pay to see that game.
shaftr, the ghost author. cheat, the never-present manager. colin, the obfuscating author. wiz…well. who the fuck knows. at least he shows up to work.
Bart: I'll take Millhouse.
(Jose Canseco walks by)
Other kid: I’ll take Jose Canseco.
Bart: D’oh!
by The Actual El Guapo on Aug 1, 2008 1:54 PM CDT up reply actions
Now I'd take Millhouse
shaftr, the ghost author. cheat, the never-present manager. colin, the obfuscating author. wiz…well. who the fuck knows. at least he shows up to work.
agreed
he’s got so much more range, I think it’s the obvious decision.
this isn't hard. you live in a port city. and you're a slut. do the math. -larry
i heard he also upgraded to rec specs.
"fortunately, i'm adhering to a pretty strict, uh, drug, uh, regimen to keep my mind, you know, uh, limber."
by Toonderstrook on Aug 1, 2008 7:09 PM CDT up reply actions
Unfortunately, I think that's the best news from this trade
read the whole thing you stroke artist - kenwo4life
the griffey trade seems to be a business decision first and a baseball decision second
the addition of griffey on the surface looks like it should boost box office sales. will the added gate on account of griffey cover the actual contract cost? no, but that ignores secondary revenue sources such as memorabilia sales, etc.
from a baseball perspective, the deal, imo, is a epic meh. i think the upside certainly can outweigh the downside if griffey is used in the right game scenarios.
ultimately, this is williams getting the player he himself always wanted to be, and later coveted as a gm. A player that is in position to surpass the homerun total of a player the sox cut bait on too early, and would later place a tremendous amount of competitive pressure on the team from a business perspective.
"a lack of capitalization is a passive-aggressive way of displaying my contempt for you people. you are unworthy of my shift key."
by explodingpinwheelsforfunandprofit on Aug 1, 2008 4:03 PM CDT reply actions
a little over a third of the season left; losing 3 of 4 to the twins.
here is a graphically representation off the ongoing theme of ‘THIS SEASON IS OVAAA!’

http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/teams/alcentral/
"a lack of capitalization is a passive-aggressive way of displaying my contempt for you people. you are unworthy of my shift key."
by explodingpinwheelsforfunandprofit on Aug 1, 2008 4:06 PM CDT reply actions

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