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Danks Dazzles in Defeat

John Danks took a no-hitter into the seventh inning Monday night, but it wasn't enough. This is where I put the "John Danks Doesn't Know How to Win" graphic, but I'm just not feeling up to it tonight.

I'm gonna finish off a piece for THT instead. Let's hope Colin can keep his drunken rambling to the last gamethread.

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Message from a Red Sox fan

The White Sox looked really strong throughout the series, from the rotation to the offense. Boston had to play well for the split.

John Danks reminded me a lot of our Jon Lester, except with a much better fastball. He pitched extremely well, even against a line-up filled with RHB and switch hitters. Beckett was solid, and ended up with the better line, but for most of the night Danks was utterly breathtaking.

Anyway, this was a great series to watch, and I’m looking forward to when the White Sox visit Boston. These teams seem destined to meet in the playoffs.

by 0157H7 on Aug 12, 2008 12:24 AM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

This is quite the load from Kenny...

“Pitching acquisitions on hold, for now
White Sox have no immediate plans to for waiver-wire deals”

“There have been some names in the paper, one in particular, that I can unequivocally tell you that I have not made one single phone call toward that particular player,” Williams said. “I don’t know where that came from, because I don’t believe that particular player would be a good fit for us.”
“You start looking at names that really don’t necessary fit the equation and you never want to do that,” added Williams of waiver-wire deals. “A lot of names out there that are veteran type guys that would on the surface appease everyone and say we have that spot covered, but we know it won’t work. Our in-house candidates would be better served than an outside choice, because we’ve trained them to be able to pitch in this ballpark.”
“Sometimes, the most obvious move isn’t so obvious for us,” Williams said. “In essence, if we don’t really believe that will translate into success in this ballpark, and that’s very key, then it doesn’t make sense to do it.

“So, the most obvious moves, sometimes, to the public isn’t the most obvious in all of our research and what we’ve done to determine what is successful here in this ballpark,” Williams added.

Jarrod Washburn (career stats pitching at The Cell):
59.2 IP
3.92 ERA
1.11 WHIP
.224 BAA
49 H
26 ER
32 SO
17 BB

So I guess Kenny should be held responsible for this non-move (a.k.a. we don’t want to pick up Washburn’s salary) if Carrasco and/or Broadway suck in their new role as fifth starter and Washburn has a strong finish to the season. We should all remember this point in the season if the Sox fall a few games short to the Twins for the division.

"god, you’re fucking stupid."
-- Larry

by SSH2005 on Aug 12, 2008 12:30 AM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Some more classic quotes of bullshit from Kenny...

Link:

’’Sometimes the most obvious move isn’t so obvious for us,’’ Williams said. ’’And taking money and contracts out of the equation, for instance, getting a veteran who may slip through the waiver process, it may look good on paper and create a buzz with the fans and may look like we’re trying to fill a spot, [but] if we don’t really believe that will translate into success in this ballpark, and that’s very key, then it doesn’t make sense to do it.
’’You’re better off bringing someone who has been trained in a minor-league system, major-league spring training, has experience in the ballpark and understands the value of two-seam sink on a pitch, changeup behind on the count, all the things it takes in order to translate to success out here at this park.’‘

That second quote is my favorite because it is absolutely ridiculous. I would have felt better if Kenny was honest about it and said that they didn’t want to pick up Washburn’s contract.

"god, you’re fucking stupid."
-- Larry

by SSH2005 on Aug 12, 2008 12:35 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

ahhh tonight just fucking sucked....those are some good quotes from our man KW...

i think it would be pretty sweet if ssh's kid and kenwo's kid had offspring together...whether you believe in nature or nurture, it wouldn’t be boring.-larry

by furby2056 on Aug 12, 2008 12:42 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Since someone is bound to jump to defend Kenny here, I will preempt them with the following...

This is a guy who acquired the rotting corpse of Ken Griffey Jr. to play some center field, even though he was already one of the worst right fielders in all of baseball. Kenny basically made a deadline acquisition that looks like it will end up hurting the Sox. So far, he hasn’t acquired the pitching that the Sox need—sorry Kenny, Russell and Broadway ain’t gonna get it done.

How could a guy who traded Chris Carter for Carlos Quentin also trade for Griffey to play center field? Also, even if you don’t factor in Washburn’s career numbers at The Cell, did Kenny forget that the Sox don’t play all of their games at home?

"god, you’re fucking stupid."
-- Larry

by SSH2005 on Aug 12, 2008 12:55 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

But...

"You know, if you stab a man in the dead of winter, steam will rise up from the wounds. Indians believed it was his soul escaping from his body." - Mikita's Manager, Glen

by omnipotent grab on Aug 12, 2008 12:58 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yeah, that's great...

We need more pictures of a sucky reliever. I think a player should actually have to be good before they get a nickname.

I guess I shouldn’t worry. Juan Uribe’s brother, Franklyn German, has come to save the bullpen with his 1.72 WHIP.

"god, you’re fucking stupid."
-- Larry

by SSH2005 on Aug 12, 2008 1:02 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I liked Aardsma better than Masset...

That doesn’t mean I like him over a guy like Linebrink though. Aardsma has a bad WHIP (1.40) but it isn’t Masset-bad (1.58). Also, Aardsma can actually strike guys out (9.51 K/9). Masset can’t (6.19 K/9).

"god, you’re fucking stupid."
-- Larry

by SSH2005 on Aug 12, 2008 1:09 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Sigh

Nicknames. Focus.

I CAN'T STAND IT.
Sox Machine

by Sox Machine on Aug 12, 2008 1:28 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Who is The Arsonist?

Aardsma, MacDougal, or Wassermann?

I guess the fact that I don’t know says something about our bullpen options.

"god, you’re fucking stupid."
-- Larry

by SSH2005 on Aug 12, 2008 1:29 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

MacDougal.

Shitcock.

"You know, if you stab a man in the dead of winter, steam will rise up from the wounds. Indians believed it was his soul escaping from his body." - Mikita's Manager, Glen

by omnipotent grab on Aug 12, 2008 1:31 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It was a good acquisition at the time...

I still don’t think the Sox lost too much with who they gave up (Lumsden and Cortes). It’s a shame that MacDougal is as big of a headcase as Boone Logan. Kenny was acquiring a reliever with closer stuff. I remember because MacDougal had a 97 MPH sinker when the Sox first acquired him and he got it up to 99 MPH. I’m sure a lot of teams would have wanted him after his 2005 and 2006 seasons.

"god, you’re fucking stupid."
-- Larry

by SSH2005 on Aug 12, 2008 1:37 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think you mean Massets brother.

"You know, if you stab a man in the dead of winter, steam will rise up from the wounds. Indians believed it was his soul escaping from his body." - Mikita's Manager, Glen

by omnipotent grab on Aug 12, 2008 1:04 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

the following is what i find baffling as well:

“How could a guy who traded Chris Carter for Carlos Quentin also trade for Griffey to play center field?”

I don’t quite know how to resolve this. There is literally no evidence that Griffey is even adequate in right. I wrote as much back in my rundown. These things become obvious and would therefore work themselves out. I’ve got a week left in my 2 week span and I’m feeling like that’s not going to happen.

nothing gets ‘em wetter than infrequent postings on the city’s second favorite team

by colintj on Aug 12, 2008 1:08 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

This is due to Kenny's biggest weakness as a GM...

He falls in love with players and he always eventually gets his man, unfortunately, even when they are washed-up. Look no further than Roberto Alomar (both times), Carl Everett (the second time), and now Griffey, who Kenny supposedly tried to trade for two other times but failed. If you fail in getting Griffey when he is still productive, that’s fine. But don’t trade for the guy when he is on his last leg and proceed to throw him out in center field.

"god, you’re fucking stupid."
-- Larry

by SSH2005 on Aug 12, 2008 1:17 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You kinda do the same thing, though

You lock in and obsess about a guy days, weeks, months, even a year-plus past the time a player is worth caring about. The Aardsma thing is a good example—honestly, who cares?

I CAN'T STAND IT.
Sox Machine

by Sox Machine on Aug 12, 2008 1:25 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I do...

Kenny should have simply kept Aardsma since he is now acquiring backup bullpen arms who are work than him.

"god, you’re fucking stupid."
-- Larry

by SSH2005 on Aug 12, 2008 1:28 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

"work" = "worse"

"god, you’re fucking stupid."
-- Larry

by SSH2005 on Aug 12, 2008 1:30 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Or... the cost was prohibitive.

Seattle’s front office is in terrible shape. They can’t even come to a consensus on which of their own players to extend, so who knows how sound of mind they are in coming to terms with their own players’ worth in a trade. They wanted the Yankees’ top pitching prospect, even though they were willing to take on Washburn’s entire salary. Yankees said “no dice,” and it’s possible they wouldn’t budget from their demands.

If the Yankees have a greater demand for pitching AND deeper pockets AND more expendable talent and THEY wouldn’t commit, that might say something. Seattle’s FO has a a well-earned reputation of being both stubborn and stupid.

But in any event, I’m going to hunker down and try to withstand the barrage of comments about how Kenny absolutely, positively crapped the bed on this one, and how stupid he is and how great the Twins are to have Liriano and daily updates on Washburn’s every start and bowel movement, similar to how stupid Kenny was for not pursuing Andruw Jones over the winter, which you beat into our heads day after day.

Granted, you could actually be right about this, and I’m not opposed to Washburn (unlike Jones). But you have a tendency to overlook other factors, such as the other half of a deal, and I don’t think you know as much as you think you know (I don’t know anything, either). Although I appreciate that you actually did some research into this one.

I CAN'T STAND IT.
Sox Machine

by Sox Machine on Aug 12, 2008 1:01 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I really believe Kenny did crap the bed on this one...

Hell, I hate the Cubs but Hendry struck early and got two good pitchers for Sean Gallagher and excess roster chaff. Imagine how good even Chad Gaudin would look on the Sox in the fifth starter spot?

There were obviously options out there but Kenny must have failed to see them.

"god, you’re fucking stupid."
-- Larry

by SSH2005 on Aug 12, 2008 1:13 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

He didn't have the bullets

nothing gets ‘em wetter than infrequent postings on the city’s second favorite team

by colintj on Aug 12, 2008 1:19 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Or 50 cents?

"You know, if you stab a man in the dead of winter, steam will rise up from the wounds. Indians believed it was his soul escaping from his body." - Mikita's Manager, Glen

by omnipotent grab on Aug 12, 2008 1:21 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Uh oh

He struggled with this metaphor the last time.

I CAN'T STAND IT.
Sox Machine

by Sox Machine on Aug 12, 2008 1:23 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

And meanwhile...

Kenny traded Garland for Cabrera (whom he was trying to trade at the deadline for pitching) and Gio for Swisher (who is now getting less AB’s with the Griffey addition).

"god, you’re fucking stupid."
-- Larry

by SSH2005 on Aug 12, 2008 1:40 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

At the time SS and 2B were both still big question marks,

he added a consistent bat and a great defender at SS. The rotation was full and no one was a better candidate to be traded than Garland, we got money and likely 2 draft picks. It was a good deal then and is still a good deal. He didnt know that we would suffer such losses in the pitching department but he cant be completely blamed for that, we can still blame him for Masset though.

"You know, if you stab a man in the dead of winter, steam will rise up from the wounds. Indians believed it was his soul escaping from his body." - Mikita's Manager, Glen

by omnipotent grab on Aug 12, 2008 1:55 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Research? No.

Research would be looking at the schedule, mapping out when AND where the 5th spot comes up, then looking at both career and season results (if any) by Washburn. The superficial look at “career numbers at the Cell” is hardly research. If that’s all Kenny and staff look at, the
Sox don’t deserve to win… ever.

In two weeks they will win 7 or 8 in a row and you all will have 10 inch boners.

by Chiburb on Aug 12, 2008 7:32 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

There is no proof that Washburn will suck at The Cell...

In fact, the stats show that he might actually succeed there. I figured that it would be a waste of time to figure out how many home vs. away games that Washburn would end up starting since he is automatically an upgrade over Carrasco and Broadway. I don’t see how anyone could argue otherwise.

"god, you’re fucking stupid."
-- Larry

by SSH2005 on Aug 12, 2008 7:41 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

There is no proof that Washburn will suck at The Cell...

Who said that? All I said (to Jim) was that the research he complimented didn’t deserve it.

In two weeks they will win 7 or 8 in a row and you all will have 10 inch boners.

by Chiburb on Aug 12, 2008 7:47 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

My point is...

why would I research the number of home vs. away games that Washburn would be scheduled to pitch in if the Sox acquired him if he hasn’t shown to pitch poorly at The Cell in his career, regardless of Kenny’s comments? Also, I wouldn’t even be able to predict the days that Washburn would start anyways—maybe the Sox don’t keep his current pattern of starting if they did acquire him.

"god, you’re fucking stupid."
-- Larry

by SSH2005 on Aug 12, 2008 8:14 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Once again, I didn't say YOU should do anything.

What I DID say was that the “research” you DID do really isn’t.

You keep trying to argue with things that were never written.

In two weeks they will win 7 or 8 in a row and you all will have 10 inch boners.

by Chiburb on Aug 12, 2008 8:18 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Whatever...

I just think that Kenny’s comments are pretty much b.s. He talks about “pitching to the ballpark” when it is probably more about Washburn’s contract. Washburn has pitched fine at The Cell. I would rather hear the truth from Kenny that they don’t want to add that kind of salary.

Anyways, at least it sounds like Kenny is still looking for a pitcher…

Link:

Finding a pitcher who fits stands as Williams’ biggest challenge as he scours the waiver wires along with assistant general manager Rick Hahn. It’s not necessarily about the basic act of adding a quality hurler.

If Jarrod Washburn isn’t the guy, maybe Paul Byrd is? He throws a slider and a sinker so he would seem to fit Kenny’s criteria about pitching to the ballpark. Also, he is only earning $8 million this season and he is a free agent after the season is over so the Sox would only owe him the pro-rated $2.22 million dollars of his contract for this season. If Byrd cleared waivers, which it seems that he has, he should be acquired if at all possible.

"god, you’re fucking stupid."
-- Larry

by SSH2005 on Aug 12, 2008 8:36 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

And the reason I am all for another starter...

is because Carrasco in the bullpen and either Russell or Broadway in AAA improves the bullpen.

"god, you’re fucking stupid."
-- Larry

by SSH2005 on Aug 12, 2008 8:41 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

i must have missed something somewhere.

where would KW be talking about washburn in those quotes you posted?

the atmosphere is just too much for me.

by larry on Aug 12, 2008 8:59 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I thought it was obvious...

Everyone in the media (Chris De Luca with the Sun-Times, Mark Gonzales with the Chicago Tribune, Chuck Garfien with CSN, and Peter Gammons and Buster Olney with ESPN, etc.) have been talking about the White Sox interest in Jarrod Washburn. Who else would Kenny be talking about here?

There have been some names in the paper, one in particular, that I can unequivocally tell you that I have not made one single phone call toward that particular player,” Williams said. “I don’t know where that came from, because I don’t believe that particular player would be a good fit for us.”

"god, you’re fucking stupid."
-- Larry

by SSH2005 on Aug 12, 2008 9:04 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

one of the other names in the paper?

no. it’s not.

as for KW not making “one single phone call”, no fucking shit. rick hahn makes the phone calls. duh.

the atmosphere is just too much for me.

by larry on Aug 12, 2008 9:05 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Well, I guess Kenny could be talking about Paul Byrd...

I believe Phil Rogers in the Chicago Tribune mentioned Byrd as a possibility but didn’t even mention Washburd.

But to stay in line with Kenny’s comments, wouldn’t Byrd and his sinker fit The Cell better than Washburn? That’s why I assume Kenny is talking about Washburn.

"god, you’re fucking stupid."
-- Larry

by SSH2005 on Aug 12, 2008 9:10 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I guess Kenny could be talking about Freddy Garcia as well...

but most of the media has been discussing Washburn.

"god, you’re fucking stupid."
-- Larry

by SSH2005 on Aug 12, 2008 9:11 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

or he could be talking about....

those quotes are so general as to be meaningless.

the atmosphere is just too much for me.

by larry on Aug 12, 2008 9:12 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

would god fit in the white sox clubhouse?

Thievin' motherfuckers take everything, don't they?

by onlysoxfaninboston on Aug 12, 2008 9:26 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Only if he's willing to dye his beard

this isn't hard. you live in a port city. and you're a slut. do the math. -larry

by rhythm on Aug 12, 2008 10:55 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You do realize that because you post 25 times on a subject

that doesnt actually mean you are right. Dude you read WAY too much into quotes. How do you know what Seattle was asking for if Kenny did inquire. I dare say there is probably a reason he has not been traded for.

The SSS motto should be the answer to "What is our deepest fear?". Or maybe just Prozac.

by Tdogg on Aug 12, 2008 9:14 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

SEATTLE—Upon inking a four year, $37 million contract with the Seattle Mariners, pitcher Jarrod Washburn immediately called his wife, Kristin, to tell her the news. Two hours later, he was finally able to convince her that he was not joking and that he actually received that amount from the Mariners.

"No, seriously, honey. I’m not kidding. I got 37 mil," Washburn told his wife after he signed the contract. "I’m serious! Yes, 37. Three-Seven. Over four years. Uh huh. Yes. I was 8-8 last year. I know, it’s fucked up. You should’ve seen me trying to keep a straight face in that room. I was like ’37 million. Hmmm…let me weight the pros and cons.’ Then I went into some stupid bullshit about how Seattle is a great place to raise a family and I signed the thing before they could change their minds. Jackpot!"

Washburn and his wife were expecting a much smaller deal over a shorter length of time, especially after his mediocre season last year. But with so many teams desperate for pitching help, Washburn was able to cash in.

http://www.thebrushback.com/washburn_full.htm

the atmosphere is just too much for me.

by larry on Aug 12, 2008 9:16 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I mean I get overreaction

But ranting over this is just silly

The SSS motto should be the answer to "What is our deepest fear?". Or maybe just Prozac.

by Tdogg on Aug 12, 2008 9:19 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The point is that Kenny needs to acquire somebody...

Carrasco in the rotation with Russell and Broadway in the bullpen is a pretty bad way of trying to hold off the Twins.

"god, you’re fucking stupid."
-- Larry

by SSH2005 on Aug 12, 2008 9:19 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

like i've said before, don't get your hopes up.

the only two guys who are apparently available is someone a team wanted two top prospects for (kind of difficult for the sox, especially now that it’s past july 31) and a guy who plays for a division rival. this will be another KW magic trick if he gets it done.

the atmosphere is just too much for me.

by larry on Aug 12, 2008 9:23 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I believe we did talk about this...

The non-contending Royals traded a player to the Sox so why wouldn’t the non-contending Indians do it as well?

"god, you’re fucking stupid."
-- Larry

by SSH2005 on Aug 12, 2008 9:33 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

because they don't like the white sox.

i wouldn’t exactly equate the royals with the indians.

and there’s also the compensation hurdle. byrd may well be a b. like i’ve said before, do you really see players on the sox that mark shapiro would think he couldn’t do better in the draft? he’s had decent success (miller, huff) with his picks. another team could probably offer more, if they decide to move him. or they could sit on the pick.

the atmosphere is just too much for me.

by larry on Aug 12, 2008 9:41 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Right about that they can't freaking stand "us"

Likewise.

The SSS motto should be the answer to "What is our deepest fear?". Or maybe just Prozac.

by Tdogg on Aug 12, 2008 9:51 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Oh that's your point?

So it took you 20 posts to say that? And some how he’s an idiot if he doesnt acquire Washburn at all costs because you feel that puts them over the hump?

The SSS motto should be the answer to "What is our deepest fear?". Or maybe just Prozac.

by Tdogg on Aug 12, 2008 9:24 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

to be fair to ssh, he isn't the only one who often reads too much into this stuff.

both gonzalez and the master of shit stirring “rumors” tim dierkes seem to think KW was talking about washburn. who knows is the bestter answer.

the atmosphere is just too much for me.

by larry on Aug 12, 2008 9:34 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Tim Dierkes...

is just sourcing the Sun-Times Chris De Luca’s article for today.

“Williams figures M’s lefty likely not the right move”

"god, you’re fucking stupid."
-- Larry

by SSH2005 on Aug 12, 2008 9:40 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I see what you are referring to now...

I still think it is the most reasonable guess as to who Kenny is talking about but I guess it could be anyone.

"god, you’re fucking stupid."
-- Larry

by SSH2005 on Aug 12, 2008 9:43 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yes...

Another starter would improve the rotation and Carrasco in the bullpen over Russell or Broadway improves the bullpen. It would make no sense for Kenny to acquire Griffey at the deadline when the Sox didn’t need an extra outfielder / DH, yet he doesn’t acquire another pitcher when the Sox lose Contreras for the season?

"god, you’re fucking stupid."
-- Larry

by SSH2005 on Aug 12, 2008 9:37 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Okay for the 80th time

What the fuck has one got to do with other? Excuse my language.

The SSS motto should be the answer to "What is our deepest fear?". Or maybe just Prozac.

by Tdogg on Aug 12, 2008 9:50 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Because it makes no sense...

Why would you acquire a DH to play center field when there was no hole to begin with and then you sit on your hands when you lose a starter for the season and are also down your primary setup man for a month?

"god, you’re fucking stupid."
-- Larry

by SSH2005 on Aug 12, 2008 9:58 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

you oddly seem to equate no move occurring to sitting on hands.

there’s a logical leap in there, you know. and, based on the waiver market, one that i don’t think should be made.

the atmosphere is just too much for me.

by larry on Aug 12, 2008 10:03 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

And also...

I don’t see how acquiring Griffey (whether or not you agree with that) means that Kenny Williams wasn’t trying to get pitching help.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Aug 12, 2008 10:07 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

based on the, shall we say, consternation in rick hahn's voice

when i saw him speak last week, i’d say they made a concerted effort to get pitching help before the deadline. at any rate, the ramirez waiver deal is a decent one. a second loogy was needed and they addressed that.

the atmosphere is just too much for me.

by larry on Aug 12, 2008 10:09 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That was a good deal...

which came about due to Logan’s recent suckiness. Ramirez does help with the Contreras and Linebrink injuries.

"god, you’re fucking stupid."
-- Larry

by SSH2005 on Aug 12, 2008 10:20 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Errr, "doesn't help".

"god, you’re fucking stupid."
-- Larry

by SSH2005 on Aug 12, 2008 11:04 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

isnt this what they did by getting Griffey and having him play center?

“and taking money and contracts out of the equation, for instance, getting a veteran…it may look good on paper and create a buzz with the fans and may look like we’re trying to fill a spot, [but] if we don’t really believe that will translate into success in this ballpark…then it doesnt make sense to do it.”

by The Scoper on Aug 12, 2008 10:25 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I was thinking the same thing, though I suppose KW would argue that a slow (bad) CF is less relatively harmful at the Cell due to the small size of the OF.

We probably should stop scrutinzing these quotes like they were the Zapruder film. I blame SSH. And Uribe, of course, always Uribe.

by The Actual El Guapo on Aug 12, 2008 10:31 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You do realize...

That looking at his stats at the Cell are incredibly misleading and downright stupid, right?

I mean…who has he faced all those times at U.S. Comiskular…?

by Craig Grebeck on Aug 12, 2008 3:14 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Ummm...

A homerun hitting lineup which the Sox have assembled year after year, which seems to be what Kenny is worried about since he mentioned a pitcher needing to have experience at The Cell and possibly a sinker to have success there.

"god, you’re fucking stupid."
-- Larry

by SSH2005 on Aug 12, 2008 7:18 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

i'm back in normal thinky mode

you can all rest easy tonight

nothing gets ‘em wetter than infrequent postings on the city’s second favorite team

by colintj on Aug 12, 2008 12:51 AM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I missed the action. :-(

"You know, if you stab a man in the dead of winter, steam will rise up from the wounds. Indians believed it was his soul escaping from his body." - Mikita's Manager, Glen

by omnipotent grab on Aug 12, 2008 12:53 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You didn't miss much

He pretty much validated Cheat’s decision for moving the game threads off the main page.

I CAN'T STAND IT.
Sox Machine

by Sox Machine on Aug 12, 2008 1:02 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That sounds like a colin thing to do, I think I could have made it epicly worse though.

Just call me lard.

"You know, if you stab a man in the dead of winter, steam will rise up from the wounds. Indians believed it was his soul escaping from his body." - Mikita's Manager, Glen

by omnipotent grab on Aug 12, 2008 1:05 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Btw that General Soreness p'shop was pure win.

"You know, if you stab a man in the dead of winter, steam will rise up from the wounds. Indians believed it was his soul escaping from his body." - Mikita's Manager, Glen

by omnipotent grab on Aug 12, 2008 1:07 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

IAWTC

nothing gets ‘em wetter than infrequent postings on the city’s second favorite team

by colintj on Aug 12, 2008 1:10 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

i decided to drink bourbon for good luck

it was both bad luck and way too much bourbon

nothing gets ‘em wetter than infrequent postings on the city’s second favorite team

by colintj on Aug 12, 2008 1:10 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Ive done that, bet it was still fun though right?

Like in Dr. Strangelove, ride that bomb to hell!

"You know, if you stab a man in the dead of winter, steam will rise up from the wounds. Indians believed it was his soul escaping from his body." - Mikita's Manager, Glen

by omnipotent grab on Aug 12, 2008 1:36 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

crede thoughts

surgery. epidurals. nerve compression. sciatica… as someone who has suffered with a similar physiognomy I just don’t see JC coming back in any meaningful way. The L-6 compression makes you compensate for the weakness by putting strain on other parts of the body, particularly knees and shoulder. Epidurals are cortisone bandaids—yes, they relieve symptoms, but not the problem.

by RoyEgan on Aug 12, 2008 7:28 AM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

There's a very good chance...

that we’ve seen the last of Crede in a White Sox uniform.

The consensus early in the season was that the White Sox absolutely had to stay healthy in order to contend this year. That’s true for every team, but more so for this team, as they have no organizational depth whatsoever. The Sox have dipped into the well already, and found it dry.

Have they passed the point of no return in terms of injuries? That’s the question facing the team right now.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Aug 12, 2008 9:33 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Indeed

One of the problems of having a “veteran”/”older” (whatever you want to call it) team. I frankly think they will make it into the playoffs but I don’t see them getting very far. Earlier I was thinking AL Championships, maybe even the WS. Now… I’m not so sure. These next two weeks are very important.

As for Jr, well frankly I don’t think we have the time to let him learn how to play first. Use him as a DH when Thome needs a break.. but thats it IMO.

by 815Sox on Aug 12, 2008 9:43 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

what's pretty amusing

at least to me, is that the sox have been hit where their “depth” was. and we’ve learned it wasn’t really even there. crede goes down. fields comes up and doesn’t do well (somewhat predictable considering how his season had gone). contreras goes down and the sixth starter spot that people were probably reasonably okay with (egbert, broadway, whatever) ends up being richard who sucks. a bullpen arm goes down (combo of jenks/linebrink) and the sox should theoretically be able to paper over that to one degree or another, just like any team, and it goes to hell.

one can imagine what would have happened if someone actually less replaceable went down. based on this bad experience, cole armstrong or something would have been amazing.

the atmosphere is just too much for me.

by larry on Aug 12, 2008 9:45 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

i should note, however

that the uribe re-signing appears to have worked out as well as i expected. he was able to fill in the hole at 2b after richar absenteed and injured his way out of the organization and until ramirez was ready, and now he’s done a good job for crede. so give the “depth” one point.

the atmosphere is just too much for me.

by larry on Aug 12, 2008 9:54 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Concur.

Despite all the wailing and gnashing of teeth, bringing back Uribe turned out to be a very good move.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Aug 12, 2008 9:58 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

agreed

Never thought I’d be admitting this. The dude really turned it up when his job was on the line

by 815Sox on Aug 12, 2008 10:00 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

A few things:

1. Ignoring the 9th (which, much like the gamethread, rapidly devolved into madness, pain and dog vomit), last night’s game came down to 2 at-bats in very similar circumstances: Drew vs. Danks with 2 on and 2 out in the 7th and JD vs. Beckett with 2 on and 2 out in the 8th. Drew came through, Beckett got JD to pop out, and that was pretty much it. Again, disregarding the 9th, it was an excellent game between 2 very good teams with great starting pitching on both sides - it was playoff quality.
2. Josh Beckett is good at baseball. Having said that, I thought the Sox - Thome, Uribe and Slash in particular - had some very good at bats against him (Q!, not so much). I was actually encouraged that, despite only scoring 1 run and hitting nothing even remotely close to a home run, the offense did not look pathetic against one of the best pitchers in baseball pitching at the top of his game.
3. Colin, your mother and I have decided you can no longer be trusted with the liquor cabinet key. You are grounded to North Campus for 2 weeks. Tough love, son. Tough love.
4. It’s been said roughly 100,000 times by now, but I’ll say it again - the Sox simply cannot play Griffey in center and expect not to be seriously burned. For me, the absolute clincher was the Kelly Leak/Timmy Lupus play that Slash had to make late in the game on a ball hit to medium-shallow center. Hard to imagine Griffey even would want to play there after that embarrassment. It’s still early, but right now, it looks like Griffey:Sox = Mays:Mets = Ali:Holmes = Jordan:Wizards = (presumably) Favre:Jets.
5. If one finds oneself agreeing with SSH more than 2 times in any single post, does one: (a) up one’s meds to giant chewy mouthful levels, (b) engage in radical electroshock therapy involving forks and toasters, (c) just end it all, or (d) all of the above? I ask purely hypothetically, of course …

by The Actual El Guapo on Aug 12, 2008 9:44 AM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Point 2 Needs to be repeated

Very little talk of how good Beckett was… you can’t win them all.

Honestly, I saw quite a bit of talk from people claiming “they’d be happy if the sox just took 1”... now people are bitching that we didn’t take 3 out of 4. Now, if we play like shit against KC thats one thing, but don’t forgot the BoSox are pretty good this year. We did pretty well, especially considering our injuries

by 815Sox on Aug 12, 2008 9:47 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I did

And I’m pretty sure you were in the “If the Sox get 1 I’ll be happy” camp

by 815Sox on Aug 12, 2008 9:52 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

uh, no.

the atmosphere is just too much for me.

by larry on Aug 12, 2008 9:55 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I said I'd be happy with a split.

In two weeks they will win 7 or 8 in a row and you all will have 10 inch boners.

by Chiburb on Aug 12, 2008 10:01 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I was pleasantly surprised by our BoSux visitor....

We don’t always get such nice tidings from other team’s fans.

Plain and simple, Beckett dominated – but so did Danks. I blame the new guy for alluding to Danks’ no-no (alluding? no. he just outright noted it in awful, jinxing fashion, causing Colin to drink more bourbon, and well, we know what happened from there) in the gamethread…but aside from that….

The loss didn’t hurt as bad as your average one-run defeat. Our offense wasn’t completely horrible – there just weren’t many opportunities against Beckett.

Q!, however, looked pretty weak.
And nothing pisses me off more than when pitchers make Q! look less exclamatory!

"just realized the superman uni is barely visible but slightly protruding out of his jersey. and i began to slightly protrude out of my pants." - MM

by homesickalien on Aug 12, 2008 10:04 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I agree -- there's no shame in splitting with the Red Sox.

Particularly considering how they have dominated us (‘05 playoff series notwithstanding) for the past several years.

by The Actual El Guapo on Aug 12, 2008 9:51 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Tip your cap...

Beckett is good.

But the Sox have no such excuse with Brian Bannister, TBA, and Kyle Davies due up at home.

"god, you’re fucking stupid."
-- Larry

by SSH2005 on Aug 12, 2008 10:06 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Given the standings....no there are really none

Sweeping would be dandy, but all we need is a series win and hope that stupid shit Yankees lineup can just mash the ball for the next few days.

Beckett was outstanding yesterday, I haven’t seen Q look that bad in a while, and in general he made everyone look pretty awful. As awesome as Danks was, it just looked like the HBP and base hit kind of sucked the life out of him.

I was a multiple time all star throughout my little league career. Won 5 championships- 4 in a row- thats more in a row than MJ… (kenwo4life@aol.com)

by Ozzie Montana on Aug 12, 2008 10:49 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

or his usual post sixth inning fatigue.

danks in the seventh is generally a bad idea.

the atmosphere is just too much for me.

by larry on Aug 12, 2008 10:54 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I was going to write that

But, yeah that 6-7th inning wall seems to apply to the majority of pitchers. Life-sucking forces seemed more fun.

I was a multiple time all star throughout my little league career. Won 5 championships- 4 in a row- thats more in a row than MJ… (kenwo4life@aol.com)

by Ozzie Montana on Aug 12, 2008 10:59 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

i know we're dealing with small sample sizes here, but here are the splits for 6th and 7th

inning (games ave obp slg ops hr k bb)
6th (20 .232 .274 .449 .723 4 15 3)
7th (11 .361 .439 .500 .939 0 6 5)

his stats are really good in the 6th thus far this year. i think ozzie should let him take the next step (going deeper into games) next year.

Thievin' motherfuckers take everything, don't they?

by onlysoxfaninboston on Aug 12, 2008 11:17 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

well, yeah.

he’s a young pitcher who throws a lot of pitches. he’s increasing his endurance.

the atmosphere is just too much for me.

by larry on Aug 12, 2008 11:22 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

he shouldn't even in blow-out games?

so on the whole for the remainder of this year, the work load should be what’s required (6 innings per start, hopefully) and not abuse him like we did with buehrle early in his career. he’s going to be logging in more innings anyway if we go to the playoffs…

Thievin' motherfuckers take everything, don't they?

by onlysoxfaninboston on Aug 12, 2008 2:13 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

especially in blow out games.

how many times have we seen managers needlessly keep sending out a young pitcher in a blow out game? cough, dusty baker, cough, joe girardi. what’s the point, other than to destroy an arm?

the atmosphere is just too much for me.

by larry on Aug 12, 2008 2:25 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

you're right, there is no point

i don’t know why i wasn’t seeing the forest from the trees

Thievin' motherfuckers take everything, don't they?

by onlysoxfaninboston on Aug 12, 2008 2:28 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

#5:

(e) lobotomy

hypothetically, of course.

In two weeks they will win 7 or 8 in a row and you all will have 10 inch boners.

by Chiburb on Aug 12, 2008 10:02 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Griffey in CF

I was watching NESN in the 9th. Bay’s bloop single to center was shown in replay from behind the plate. You can see Griffey in CF get such a bad jump it was criminal. I imagine he was kept in the game since he was due up in the bottom half. But that was a play that any other CF makes.

At the crack of the bat, it looked like he was sleeping.

I'm like a laser, six-string razor. I've got a mouth like an alligator

by Nordhagen on Aug 12, 2008 10:13 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

the atmosphere is just too much for me.

by larry on Aug 12, 2008 10:16 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'm like a laser, six-string razor. I've got a mouth like an alligator

by Nordhagen on Aug 12, 2008 10:24 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That bad eh

I spent 15 minutes trying to tune into WCIU’s shitty low power repeater in Rockford. Kinda glad it didn’t work. The sad thin is, its only 3 miles away. You can only get it in a small part of downtown Crackford

by 815Sox on Aug 12, 2008 11:10 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

OT: Hamilton RBI Stats (Stark)

Here are some RBI-related numbers on Hamilton I didn’t bring up earlier: He doesn’t have a single RBI since the all-star break that didn’t come via a home run. (You can find that one in today’s Elias Says column.) And he has come to bat with 51 more runners on base than Quentin (261-210). So in this day and age, with all the great numbers and info available to us, we shouldn’t be using RBIs as our No. 1 offensive criterion anymore, should we?

In two weeks they will win 7 or 8 in a row and you all will have 10 inch boners.

by Chiburb on Aug 12, 2008 10:09 AM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

preacher meet choir.

the atmosphere is just too much for me.

by larry on Aug 12, 2008 10:11 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

In two weeks they will win 7 or 8 in a row and you all will have 10 inch boners.

by Chiburb on Aug 12, 2008 11:31 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

bought to be mentioned in another thread on here

"as much as i hate dj i don't want him to get molested"- BuehrleMan

by U-God on Aug 12, 2008 11:45 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yes, I saw that last night.

In two weeks they will win 7 or 8 in a row and you all will have 10 inch boners.

by Chiburb on Aug 12, 2008 11:59 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

But it's such a neat and tidy statistic

And incredibly easy for the common fan to use, which is why things like batting average, ERA, and RBIs won’t go anywhere for a long time.

I was a multiple time all star throughout my little league career. Won 5 championships- 4 in a row- thats more in a row than MJ… (kenwo4life@aol.com)

by Ozzie Montana on Aug 12, 2008 10:51 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'm very pleased Floyd has got his head shaved

In fact I called for this development some time ago. I now expect him to be our dominating pitcher in the last third of the season.

regards

Sox fan from England, marching on together

by hoodlight on Aug 12, 2008 10:14 AM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

From the thread above this one:

The more I look into Gavin Floyd, the more I think he is on borrowed time and is likely to falter down the stretch for the White Sox. He has been getting good defense behind him. If he were getting a ton of ground balls, you might understand that, but that isn’t the case with Floyd. He has some nice pitches, but they don’t seem to mesh well and I am not thrilled with his slider in particular.

He needs to keep those walk numbers down. He isn’t going to get a ton of double plays and when some balls start to fall in, he is going to get burned badly if he is handing out the free passes.

In two weeks they will win 7 or 8 in a row and you all will have 10 inch boners.

by Chiburb on Aug 12, 2008 10:18 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

it's dated Aug. 12

In two weeks they will win 7 or 8 in a row and you all will have 10 inch boners.

by Chiburb on Aug 12, 2008 10:32 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

not the thread you bonehead

the content to which it refers

Sox fan from England, marching on together

by hoodlight on Aug 12, 2008 10:35 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

the atmosphere is just too much for me.

by larry on Aug 12, 2008 10:36 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Larry

Do you know what a bonehead is?

by 815Sox on Aug 12, 2008 11:13 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I do

Bonehead, a term used to describe someone with a fixed sense of purpose to the point of being foolish.

Sox fan from England, marching on together

by hoodlight on Aug 12, 2008 12:09 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Content:

Anatomy of a player: Gavin Floyd
by Josh Kalk
August 12, 2008

Regards Sockpuppet

In two weeks they will win 7 or 8 in a row and you all will have 10 inch boners.

by Chiburb on Aug 12, 2008 10:38 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

mmm that's funny

I wasn’t aware he had pitched a game post having his head shaved. can you tell me what happened? I must have missed it

many thanks

Sox fan from England, marching on together

by hoodlight on Aug 12, 2008 10:39 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

effin' codsucker

In two weeks they will win 7 or 8 in a row and you all will have 10 inch boners.

by Chiburb on Aug 12, 2008 10:40 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

No Olympic truce on SSS?

Man, even the Russians halted their March Through Georgia.

by The Actual El Guapo on Aug 12, 2008 10:42 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

why? I still say he's posting from Peoria

In two weeks they will win 7 or 8 in a row and you all will have 10 inch boners.

by Chiburb on Aug 12, 2008 10:44 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

it's a whole new ball game

In two weeks they will win 7 or 8 in a row and you all will have 10 inch boners.

by Chiburb on Aug 12, 2008 10:43 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

ha!

"just realized the superman uni is barely visible but slightly protruding out of his jersey. and i began to slightly protrude out of my pants." - MM

by homesickalien on Aug 12, 2008 10:50 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Linebrink update...

Link:

Right-handed reliever Scott Linebrink is hoping to stretch out his throwing program today, progressing from 90 feet to 120 feet in his long-toss sessions. Linebrink, who has been on the disabled list since July 26 because of pain deep in his right shoulder, isn’t expected to return to the Sox’ bullpen until the end of August.

’’It’s frustrating at times,’’ Linebrink said.

’’If I had it my way, I’d be back throwing right now. It is taking a little bit longer than originally expected, but we’re trying everything we can to get it healthy. It is muscular. We’re still convinced of that.’‘

"god, you’re fucking stupid."
-- Larry

by SSH2005 on Aug 12, 2008 11:07 AM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

So a minimum of 2-3 weeks without Linebrink

Let’s hope Dotel can learn how to pitch with all the atmosphere, eh?

I was a multiple time all star throughout my little league career. Won 5 championships- 4 in a row- thats more in a row than MJ… (kenwo4life@aol.com)

by Ozzie Montana on Aug 12, 2008 11:11 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It's only "ain deep in his right shoulder" ???

What a fucking baby. I’ve got deep pains in my knees, wrists, my neck, everywhere and I get up every day and work. What a wuss.

Pitching, defense and health.

by ballyb on Aug 12, 2008 12:10 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That's what Advil is for, girly man

"We were the never-say-die White Sox tonight." - Nick Swisher (8/5/08)

by tailgater on Aug 12, 2008 12:18 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

he may be a wuss, but i think that's missing the point.

it’s likely that whatever the hell was going on with his shoulder was causing him to pitch like a$$. toughness is great when you can be effective; if you can’t be effective, not so much.

"anybody interested in grabbing a couple of burgers and hittin' the cemetery?"

by Toonderstrook on Aug 12, 2008 12:20 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

clearly.

koufax pitched until his arm fell off. or something. i wasn’t there. just heard about it. you’re old. can you confirm?

the atmosphere is just too much for me.

by larry on Aug 12, 2008 12:23 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Gospel.

Pitching, defense and health.

by ballyb on Aug 12, 2008 1:03 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

He is playin'

Holla for Da Dolla and countin’ his Benjamins. Positively, not Chicago Tough.

"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."

by BobbySouthSide on Aug 12, 2008 1:14 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

i just giggled with glee

i think it would be pretty sweet if ssh's kid and kenwo's kid had offspring together...whether you believe in nature or nurture, it wouldn’t be boring.-larry

by furby2056 on Aug 12, 2008 12:59 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Two posters at the shit-hole that is WSI are saying that the Sox signed Beckham this morning...

and that the announcement will be made tomorrow.

"god, you’re fucking stupid."
-- Larry

by SSH2005 on Aug 12, 2008 1:11 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Clearly your brother-in-law

"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."

by BobbySouthSide on Aug 12, 2008 1:15 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Can he pitch and or OPS .800 in CF?

nothing gets ‘em wetter than infrequent postings on the city’s second favorite team

by colintj on Aug 12, 2008 1:56 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

No, but he now has the worst haircut in the White Sox organization.

Floyd’s bet guaranteed that.

"god, you’re fucking stupid."
-- Larry

by SSH2005 on Aug 12, 2008 1:58 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

This has been discussed at length already in the Floyd thread.

If you feel like joining the reasons why SSH sucks discussion I suggest you go there.

"You know, if you stab a man in the dead of winter, steam will rise up from the wounds. Indians believed it was his soul escaping from his body." - Mikita's Manager, Glen

by omnipotent grab on Aug 12, 2008 3:31 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

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