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Recap.

Qscrew_tiny by thecip on in Recaps

Thome hit his 536th home run. Other things happened.

White Sox won.  Woooooooo.

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and im pissed i couldn't use my newest orca fails gif

Uribe whispered, "My precious child, I love you and will never leave you, never, ever, during your trials and testings. When you saw only one set of footprints, It was then that I carried you."

by thecip on Sep 1, 2008 2:51 AM CDT   1 recs

It's comedic.

We cannot have a 1-2-3 9th.

We simply cannot.

Bobby somehow sports a sub-3.0 ERA and a good save % despite never ever making them look easy.

Sigh. .5 game lead still. Hooray for teensy tiny favors. Our run differential’s gone to shit this weekend.

by Pander on Sep 1, 2008 3:16 AM CDT   0 recs

he's no todd jones

at least he gets it done. if bobby grows a steel worker’s mustache though….

Uribe whispered, "My precious child, I love you and will never leave you, never, ever, during your trials and testings. When you saw only one set of footprints, It was then that I carried you."

by thecip on Sep 1, 2008 3:22 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Trade Jenks in the offseason...

Dude can’t strike anyone out and his saves are definitely looking like Todd Jones’ saves. Trade him in the offseason while he still has a lot of value.

"god, you’re fucking stupid."
-- Larry

by SSH2005 on Sep 1, 2008 6:06 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

He still has a lot of trade value...

but not for much longer with the lack of strikeouts and awful looking saves.

"god, you’re fucking stupid."
-- Larry

by SSH2005 on Sep 1, 2008 7:45 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Which is why he doesn't have trade value...

It’s well known around the league he’s lost velocity and the ability to strike guys out.

by Craig Grebeck on Sep 1, 2008 7:47 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Why wait?

Cur him off now. Give the 9th to Booner.

You guys are nuts. Do you know that? Nuts. The Mets would KILL their own children for Jenks right now. So would half a dozen other teams (can you say “Rays” or “Red Sox” or “Cardinals” or “Phillies”?).

Fer Chrissakes. It is this level of discourse that makes it tough for even a lardy sort like me to continue to read. I’d guess Joe Nathan is now being offered up to the Gods for blowing a game this last weekend, too. And when Mo Rivera blows 2 saves in a row, I guess the Spanks want to dump him, too.

90% save success rate = epic fail. What a joke. Can’t strike guys out? Remember in ‘06, when he blew saves left and right down the stretch? How did he follow it up last year (since he obviously has been on the decline)? By setting a record for most consecutive batters retired (41) and another All-Star appearance. This year? ERA of 1.82. (that has gone DOWN every year since ’06). WHIP of 1.15 (who’s better on our team right now? Thornton and Tabasco – that’s it).

Again, fer Chrissakes.

"I suck... the Sox don’t." reply actions 25 recs
by SSH2005 on Aug 6, 2008 1:08 AM EDT

by winningugly on Sep 1, 2008 8:04 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I don't think it's a ridiculous idea...

to trade Jenks in the offseason. Declining velocity = declining strikeouts. Jenks is due for a lot of money soon. Do you think he is worth $10 million a year? I don’t. Not if the fastball and K/9 continue to lower.

"god, you’re fucking stupid."
-- Larry

by SSH2005 on Sep 1, 2008 8:11 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

The fact he'll be making a lot of money soon lowers his value

I do agree it would be good to trade him in the offseason. Maybe they could get a catching prospect and a 3B from someone (Texas?). The Sox wll have holes to fill in CF, 2B, 3B next year and then RF and 1B the year after that. If they can trade Jenks for multiple position players they need to strongly consider doing it.

by hitlesswonder on Sep 1, 2008 8:16 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Trading Jenks to Texas for a catcher prospect...

Excellent idea. The Rangers have:

Max Ramirez
Jarrod Saltalamacchia
Taylor Teagarden

The Rangers definitely won’t keep all three of them and will use one, maybe two of them as trade bait for pitching. As far as a 3B prospect, I don’t see the Sox getting one from Texas. I think I would still give Fields a shot at it.

"god, you’re fucking stupid."
-- Larry

by SSH2005 on Sep 1, 2008 8:31 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

And CF will be filled by Swisher again next season...

Konerko isn’t going anywhere, barring an unlikely trade, and Thome will be back for one more season because he will get his option sooner or later. Second base will definitely be a hole but 2B is usually easy to fill.

"god, you’re fucking stupid."
-- Larry

by SSH2005 on Sep 1, 2008 8:37 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

amusingly, of course, ssh is wrong.

his fastball is actually faster than it was last year. it’s okay to put some thought into things sometimes, you know, instead of talking out of your ass. of course, i’m guessing it’s over your head to actually do some research and figure out why his k rate is down.

by larry on Sep 1, 2008 9:52 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Yeah, cuz Jenks' fastball was awful last year...

It was WAAAY down last year. But his fastball is still down from two seasons ago.

"god, you’re fucking stupid."
-- Larry

by SSH2005 on Sep 1, 2008 10:12 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

so? you're the one who said this: Declining velocity = declining strikeouts.

last year his strikeout rate was much higher. since it’s obviously not what you posit, what’s different about this year as opposed to last year? if you’re going to whine, at least whine about something with some factual basis.

and “awful fastball”, huh. only one of the top twenty-five or so in baseball. the horror, the horror.

by larry on Sep 1, 2008 10:20 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

where did you get the velocity figures? fangraphs indicates a very slight decrease in fb velocity.

"as long as there's, you know, sex and drugs, i can do without the rock and roll."

by Toonderstrook on Sep 1, 2008 11:08 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

teach me how to fish, man.

"as long as there's, you know, sex and drugs, i can do without the rock and roll."

by Toonderstrook on Sep 1, 2008 11:26 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

simply paying attention to what one is watching would probably go a long way.

however, i realize that can be difficult for people who simply want to form an opinion at a given point in time and then keep repeating it ad nauseum instead of actually checking whether that opinion still holds. (see, e.g., orlando cabrera’s defense, bobby jenks’ velocity, and nick masset’s velocity)

charting it yourself is probably the best way considering no computer program can identify a pitch better than someone who is familiar with that pitcher. of course, that can be time-consuming and otherwise difficult. so use josh kalk or something. probably one of the better approximations.

by larry on Sep 1, 2008 12:12 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

thanks. i don't really care about the velocity as long as it doesn't fairly obviously indicate injury.

i was just curious where you were getting your numbers. getting guys out by inducing weak contact, probably using less pitches on average, is fine by me. i do wish he would (or is it could? now i’m confused) strike out more guys in a pinch, though.

"as long as there's, you know, sex and drugs, i can do without the rock and roll."

by Toonderstrook on Sep 1, 2008 12:26 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

His velocity is down; his strikeouts are down considerably...

We’re not talking about someone at Joe Nathan’s or Mo’s level, and we’re certainly not talking about a guy with lots of longevity. Closers fizzle and we may be watching that happen with Jenks.

by Craig Grebeck on Sep 1, 2008 8:17 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

along with his diminishing velocity since 2006

he also has a diminishing era, diminishing line drive rate, diminishing home run rate…

by larry on Sep 1, 2008 11:00 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Fucking amazing what common wisdom distates.

I don’t usually feel disgust wen reading something, but Jesus
Christ, for some reason this nails it. “Wish he could strike out guys in a pinch.” No shit – I wonder who is able to strike out guys whenever he wants.

Maybe he is tradable in the offseason if he wants big, big dollars, but that is a baseball decision, not some knee-jerk

"I suck... the Sox don’t." reply actions 25 recs
by SSH2005 on Aug 6, 2008 1:08 AM EDT

by winningugly on Sep 1, 2008 1:02 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Fuck, typing too fast - will finish last post now

reaction to a guy not doing the waltz enough (1-2-3).

FUCK!!! THIS PISSES ME OFF!!! Guy gives up a run and still locks it down against a guy hotter than the Sun against the Sox and it’s bitch, bitch, bitch, trade him.

BBBLLLLAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHHH.

"I suck... the Sox don’t." reply actions 25 recs
by SSH2005 on Aug 6, 2008 1:08 AM EDT

by winningugly on Sep 1, 2008 1:05 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

"distates" a Freudian slip. Should be *dictates*.

Like the joke Tiger Woods told after his first Masters win.

"I suck... the Sox don’t." reply actions 25 recs
by SSH2005 on Aug 6, 2008 1:08 AM EDT

by winningugly on Sep 1, 2008 1:10 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

i think you misunderstood what i was saying.

what i understand larry and others to be saying is that although jenks has lost velocity, he has learned to pitch (as opposed to throw) and that maybe those two things aren’t independent of each other to a degree. my point was it that is true, i wish he would THROW occasionally to increase the likelihood of a strikeout.

"as long as there's, you know, sex and drugs, i can do without the rock and roll."

by Toonderstrook on Sep 1, 2008 1:18 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I agree with you Larry...amazing

who in the fuck are you going to get to close then? Nathan? Rivera? Because other than that Jenks is about as good as it gets. KROD blows way more games than jenks does. I think SSH and Grebeck are out of their minds

Kenwo4life=ratings

by KenWo4LiFe on Sep 1, 2008 1:12 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

i think you're actually missing ssh's point.

the point isn’t that jenks isn’t an effective closer, etc. at least for now. his point was to sell high on him. this isn’t a vacuum.

"as long as there's, you know, sex and drugs, i can do without the rock and roll."

by Toonderstrook on Sep 1, 2008 1:20 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Yes, but central to his point is that Jenks' is declining

When aside from K/9, every other underlying stat is improving, which kind of blows apart his argument.

White Sox, that’s baseball.

by vince_ on Sep 1, 2008 1:22 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

i'm curious now seeing your expected wins added numbers

how they shake out historically re: k/9

"as long as there's, you know, sex and drugs, i can do without the rock and roll."

by Toonderstrook on Sep 1, 2008 1:23 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

it's rather a conundrum to me, actually, how he is doing it.

i’ve spent a decent amount of time looking at it this year and haven’t found a satisfactory theory. i was planning to wait until the offseason to actually drill down. one thing that is out of whack this season is the strand rate.

by larry on Sep 1, 2008 1:26 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

He's turned into a contact pitcher

who doesn’t walk guys and doesn’t throw home runs (or fly balls for that matter).

My gut feeling watching him is his lack of strikeouts has less to do with his fastball velocity and more to do with control of his curve.

Now this is just based on my alcohol-addled memory, but the Jenks I remember in 2005/2006 mainly used his curve to strike people out, or when he did K someone with the fastball it was because batters were concerned with the curve.

From observation, it doesn’t seem like on most days he’s had that really good curve, or had quite the command of it he used to. So I wonder if batters are just sitting on the fastball, and Jenks’ other breaking stuff isn’t good enough to really fool them (but does induce a lot of ground balls).

I’m sure someone could look at Pitch FX data and see if the data matches the theory.

White Sox, that’s baseball.

by vince_ on Sep 1, 2008 1:37 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

i agree with what you're saying vince

it seems he loves to use the slider and get hitters to pound it into the ground…the curve isn’t what it used to be but he’s still an effective closer…i mean look at his ERA

takes some real stones for the one certifiable cocksucker on here to jump into this convo.-mm

by furby2056 on Sep 1, 2008 4:31 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

There is no point in trading him now

you are going to need a closer anyway. Who is going to take the job? Broadway? Carrasco? McDougal? We have seen Linebrink can’t do it and Jenks is better than either Thornton or Dotel. Just creating another hole

Kenwo4life=ratings

by KenWo4LiFe on Sep 1, 2008 1:22 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

i would be concerned if, as ssh posited above, his velocity continued to decline.

however, it went down last year and has basically stabilized or marginally improved this year. i don’t have any problem with his current velocity, as it is still quite good. the lower k rate can be bothersome but he’s still quite effective. jenks is arb eligible for the next three seasons. just don’t sign him to a long term contract and you don’t have to worry about getting stuck with a pumpkin. i wouldn’t necessarily be opposed to trading him but, at this point, i don’t see anyone else in the system who would be ready to seize the role on opening day 2009. the sox have some interesting arms who might be able to step in, a la 2005 jenks, midseason 2009 or later. but this doesn’t appear to be a decision for this offseason.

by larry on Sep 1, 2008 1:32 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

"Washed up"

From BP, relievers’ expected wins added (AL)

1. Fransisco Rodriguez 5.239
2. Mariano Rivera 4.939
3. Joe Nathan 4.696
4. Joakim Soria 4.364
5. Brad Ziegler 4.318
6. Bobby Jenks 4.189

White Sox, that’s baseball.

by vince_ on Sep 1, 2008 1:05 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

1. Joe Nathan
2. Bobby Jenks
3. Mariano Rivera
4. Joakim Soria
5. Frankie Rodriguez
6. Brad Ziegler

nothing gets ‘em wetter than infrequent postings on the city’s second favorite team

by colintj on Sep 1, 2008 1:22 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

glad to see you're alive.

"as long as there's, you know, sex and drugs, i can do without the rock and roll."

by Toonderstrook on Sep 1, 2008 1:25 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

michigan football is a full weekend committment

and i’m not at all depressed about the game, if you were wondering.

nothing gets ‘em wetter than infrequent postings on the city’s second favorite team

by colintj on Sep 1, 2008 1:39 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

dling the game atm

and once i do i’ll figure things out a little more concretely in terms of what i expect for the rest of the season. the thought right now is that it’s hard to play football without a QB and an OL

nothing gets ‘em wetter than infrequent postings on the city’s second favorite team

by colintj on Sep 1, 2008 1:44 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

those two quarterbacks that played saturday both have huge weaknesses for the system.

and you can’t run if there’s nowhere to go.

"as long as there's, you know, sex and drugs, i can do without the rock and roll."

by Toonderstrook on Sep 1, 2008 1:47 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

why ssh is stuck on velocity i don't know, but ranking those same guys by k/9 you end up with...

1. k-rod 10.34
2. rivera 10.22
3. nathan 9.67
4. soria 9.16
5. jenks 5.11
6. submariner 3.97

aside from jenks and the guy with the funky motion flipping, falls in like with EWA.

"as long as there's, you know, sex and drugs, i can do without the rock and roll."

by Toonderstrook on Sep 1, 2008 1:33 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Jenks doesn't throw the curve much anymore

and it’s not as devastating as it used to be. He’s done well pitching to contact and keeping the ball low. His split-finger pitch is pretty good

by 3E8 on Sep 1, 2008 1:39 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

he has a splitter?

nothing gets ‘em wetter than infrequent postings on the city’s second favorite team

by colintj on Sep 1, 2008 1:40 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

He's throwing something new this year that moves down and perhaps even a bit inside to righties

I’m not aware of what the pitch-f/x stuff says, but I’m pretty sure it comes in at about 89-91 MPH. I think Jenks wants to have more options. In 2005 it was basically get ahead with the fastball and drop the hammer for the K. That works when you’re touching 98-100 but when the velocity moves down a bit, it probably makes more sense to do some nifty things to your fastball.

by CWSKeith on Sep 1, 2008 1:45 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

that's the slider

i don’t know how he gets it to do the things it does, but i’m pretty sure it’s a slider. kalk classifies it as such also, fwiw.

nothing gets ‘em wetter than infrequent postings on the city’s second favorite team

by colintj on Sep 1, 2008 1:48 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I wonder if its a health thing?

Jenks has had a lot of elbow problems in the past, and the curve does put a lot of stress on the elbow. Maybe they have reduced his use of the curve as a precautionary matter to give him a longer career?

White Sox, that’s baseball.

by vince_ on Sep 1, 2008 1:44 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

i'm sure this is part of the conundrum of which larry speaks.

it’s the causation that really interests me. his velocity clearly isn’t what it was in ‘05-’06. now you and vince are positing that his hook isn’t as filthy and the command isn’t as good. i want to know how much is attributable to arm concerns (not necessarily injury, but as we’ve discussed before, his arm contains some metal), how much is due to him learning to “pitch,” and how much overlap there is (if he can pitch to contact, he saves pitches, saves arm on those pitches he may not be throwing as much, with as much oomph, or as much bite).

"as long as there's, you know, sex and drugs, i can do without the rock and roll."

by Toonderstrook on Sep 1, 2008 1:46 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

See, he's a POS

6th? Brad effin’ Ziegler is better. DFA now.

"I suck... the Sox don’t." reply actions 25 recs
by SSH2005 on Aug 6, 2008 1:08 AM EDT

by winningugly on Sep 1, 2008 1:15 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

last time i checked

bobby’s working class too, he’s white, right?

by onlysoxfaninboston on Sep 1, 2008 12:35 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Just saw that...

Wouldn’t mind bringing him back for next season on a minor league deal with Alexei moving over to SS. Of course, Iguchi could be done and that double play combination would probably be pretty brutal.

"god, you’re fucking stupid."
-- Larry

by SSH2005 on Sep 1, 2008 10:10 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Is he done?

IIRC, he fills in nicely at 3rd on occasion. Is his arm/range/hitting all shot?

If the answers are yes, yes, and yes, sorry, Gooch, we’ll always have ’05.

"I suck... the Sox don’t." reply actions 25 recs
by SSH2005 on Aug 6, 2008 1:08 AM EDT

by winningugly on Sep 1, 2008 1:06 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

So the following never hapened with the Phils?

Pat Gillick just told reporters at the Opryland Hotel that they might have an opportunity to bring back Tadahito Iguchi next season — and to play third base.

Moot if he has no arm, anyway. And I like Juan over Gooch if we need a 2B/3B utility guy.

"I suck... the Sox don’t." reply actions 25 recs
by SSH2005 on Aug 6, 2008 1:08 AM EDT

by winningugly on Sep 1, 2008 1:13 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

*happened*, MF it

"I suck... the Sox don’t." reply actions 25 recs
by SSH2005 on Aug 6, 2008 1:08 AM EDT

by winningugly on Sep 1, 2008 1:14 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

i think he's done (in america), at least as a starter.

the injuries seem to be increasing and he can’t overcome that.

by larry on Sep 1, 2008 1:14 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs