Ozzie Guillen's Quick Hook Costs Sox
It says a lot about the year Ozzie Guillen is having as a manager that I don't think I have complained loudly about his decision making in a single recap this season. I might have voiced a difference of opinion on occasion, but until tonight, the most egregious decision I've seen from Guillen was over the use of Pablo Ozuna, whose presence alone was questionable. Perhaps I've mellowed, or perhaps, Guillen should be in contention for manager of the year honors. (He's not. The award already has Joe Maddon's name engraved on it.)
This is going to be one of those entries. Ozzie's decision to turn to Ehren Wasserman and Horacio Ramirez in the 7th inning was the defining moment of the game. While he didn't guarantee a Sox loss with the move, it set into motion a series of events that made a White Sox victory extremely unlikely.
I didn't listen to Ozzie's post-game press conference--I switched the TV immediately to Monday Night Football--so I don't know what his rationale was for turning to double barreled suck, as 3e8 put it, out of the bullpen in the 7th. Buehrle was only at 101 pitches through 6. Based on my best estimate of the Sox rotation picture, he only has 2 guaranteed starts remaining (@ KC & @ MIN), with the possibility of throwing on short rest in the makeup game with Detroit.
I'm not even going try to make the argument that Ozzie turned to the wrong reliever, because let's face it, they've all been various degrees of terrible lately. Though I have to admit after Mike MacDougal failed to appear in Sunday's doubleheader, I thought Monday would be a good opportunity to roll the dice by giving him some high-leverage work. I'm simply going to ask this; how bad does Mark Buehrle have to be feeling, how many runs does he have to give up, how many pitches does he have to throw to make the decision to pull him in favor of Wasserez?
Wait. Don't answer too fast. Keep in mind that there are (12 or) 13 games remaining on the season, and that a run here in the 7th all but guarantees your offense will have to face the two-headed monster of Joba Chamberlain and Mariano Rivera for the final 6 outs. Don't forget Wasserman entered the game with a WHIP of 2.05, and Ramirez has been even worse (2.23) while in Chicago. Oh, and Buehrle has thrown over 110 pitches 42 times (only 2 this year) with Guillen as his manager, so there's a precedent for letting him work a high pitch count.
If ever there was a reason to ride your starter deep into a game, this was it. The entire complexion of the game changes if the Sox are able to get out of the bottom of the 7th unscathed. I'm not quite sure of the bullpen tendencies of Joe Girardi, but I have to believe he'd be much less inclined to turn to the Joba-Mo tandem in a tie game, even though that would be the right call.
I could go on and on about the suck that is the White Sox bullpen right now, and especially Ramirez, whom I greeted to the south side noting his special variety of suck, but I'm not a masochist. If the Sox are going to win this division, it's going to be on the strength of it's starters, with some strong performances by the offense (You're doing great Dewayne.) and maybe a surprise arm out of the bullpen (I'm still looking at you, MacDougal.). Now is not the time to count on the bullpen, let alone the back of the bullpen, late in a tie game.
I missed the first 5 innings of the game, so if it seems like this recap focused only on Ozzie's bullpen management, it's because that was the game for me.
* * * * *
I was about to post this as a comment, but it's too important to the discussion at hand to hide from our RSS readers or those who don't bother to venture deeper than the front page. Ozzie Guillen has become more dependent on his bullpen in his tenure as White Sox manager. He used to let his pitchers get over 100 pitches regularly, but rarely let them top 115, and almost never 120. Now 100 is the rarity, with 110 being the "almost never." It's quite obvious that he Sox would be a better team right now if he reverted to his '04-'07 hook.
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Excellente, Senor Christopher Michaels.
Everyone get down on their knees tonight.........
and say a little (or maybe a medium sized) prayer for the Sox bullpen. Call in some chits.
by ballyb on Sep 15, 2008 11:20 PM CDT 0 recs
2008 pen usage....
I have to think part of the reason for the precipitous drop this year is protecting Danks and Floyd (and Contreras to some extent). That actually just underscores that Buehrle should have stayed in the game.
Moreover, how can Ozzie throw “double-barreled suck” out there at this point in the season? I’ve liked Wasserman (you know…last year) but he’s shown he shouldn’t be pitching now. If Ozzie wants to gamble, I think MacDougal & Richard should be his mid-inning L/R duo. I’d rather not see them much either. But Mac hasn’t sucked completely in the last week and I think Richard could probably get a lefty or two out pitching from the pen.
Taking a step back, I have trouble getting too angry. With Contreras, Crede, Konerko, and Q out and Linebrink still hurting it will obviously be…unexpected…if the Sox manage to win Central. Sheesh. 14 games to go….
by hitlesswonder on Sep 15, 2008 11:50 PM CDT 0 recs
not outside the realm of possibility
I don’t want my beer to taste like fruit or honey. I want pussy to taste that way.
by thatshortkid on
Sep 16, 2008 12:27 AM CDT
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what bally said.
last night yanking danks was the right call; tonight, aside from mb begging out of the game or somebody noticed an injury issue, removing buehrle was indefensible.
three cheers for wu, the all-time leader in opos+.
by Toonderstrook on Sep 15, 2008 11:56 PM CDT 0 recs
Linebrink and Dotel were signed with the new usage in mind
I have to think this is a systematic move from the top down. There’s probably some significant evidence that the Sox are acting on to make this change.
Or, I suppose, it could be random.
nothing gets ‘em wetter than infrequent postings on the city’s second favorite team
by colintj on Sep 16, 2008 12:18 AM CDT 0 recs
I don't know if I'm just at a point where I'm too indifferent, but...
I didn’t really have a problem with him pulling Buehrle. With the situation the Sox are in (only having four good starters and still needing that fifth guy for a game, maybe two), Ozzie’s gotta balance walk a fine line between keeping the starters (somewhat) fresh so he has the option of bringing them back a day early and handing the ball off to the shaky bullpen.
My disagreement came with going to Wassermann rather than MacDougal to start the seventh. At this point MacDougal is throwing the ball better than any right-hander in the bullpen. If his past is any indication this may or may not last for a long time so I’d like to see MacDougal put in some higher leverage situations while he’s actually hitting the strike zone.
And I have to admit some channeling some my inner SSH and yelling at the TV in the first inning when OC was caught stealing. Cripes, man, you have your 3 and 4 hitters coming up, and — especially considering the Sox have had so much trouble scoring runs — the reward isn’t close to being worth the risk.
I will say though that at this point, any day in which we shave a game off the magic number is quite alright. It may be a stumble to the finish but flying a flag at season’s end (regardless of what happens in the playoffs) would be very satisfying and would be a nice accomplishment for the organization.
by CWSKeith on Sep 16, 2008 1:17 AM CDT 0 recs
Interesting to hear the response here
As I am sort of in the same boat. With everything that went on last season, where this team was on September 16th, 2007, I just can’t get too upset down the stretch here. Sox are a great pennant race, and it’s hard to ask for much more. The future looks a lot brighter than it did last year, and this division is probably locked up if Linebrink is healthy all season, and Crede had his back hold out.
Lets shave off a few digits from that magic number tomorrow.
by Tony82087 on Sep 16, 2008 1:32 AM CDT 0 recs
Bullpen? What bullpen?
I was at the game, and the 7th started and out trotted Wasserman, I turned to the people around me and said there goes the game. 2 Rows in front more sox fans, threw up their hands in disgust and yelled ‘why don’t we just give it away’. Also, here should be a rule of any GM never to take on a pitcher from Kansas City. They’re bred to lose.
by Shakey on Sep 16, 2008 7:23 AM CDT 0 recs
So where is this Kansas City labratory
where they’re creating pitchers with nasty stuff but don’t know how to win? And who is in charge of the breeding? If your a pitcher that wasn’t bred in the KC genetics lab but then are sent there, do they then take control of your mind and brainwash you to become like them? I have so many questions.
by El Duque's Raft on
Sep 16, 2008 8:39 AM CDT
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answers
in the farm system, bo jackson, yes. anymore?
by Shakey on
Sep 16, 2008 9:02 AM CDT
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What happened to Joakim Soria?
Why is he not like the others?
by El Duque's Raft on
Sep 16, 2008 9:07 AM CDT
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He pitched in the Mexican Baseball League
they worked hard on his mental fitness, preventing the brain washing
"Deserve's got nothin to do with it."
by U-God on
Sep 16, 2008 9:17 AM CDT
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I wonder if Ozzie was surprised to see MB still effective?
maybe Game 1 was a throwaway (we’re lousy on the road this year, as is MB, save the arms for Minny, just played a late doubleheader, and it’s our first game of the road trip, the Yankees starter was someone we generally would not hit, their bullpen is terrific and ours sucks, etc.). Awful if that were even considered, but Waterman and HorribleRam coming in first looked like a “what will be, will be” effort by Ozzie.
"I suck... the Sox don’t." reply actions 25 recs
by SSH2005 on Aug 6, 2008 1:08 AM EDT
by winningugly on Sep 16, 2008 7:55 AM CDT 0 recs
I didn't understand the move at all...
Save the bum relievers for when the Sox are losing big in a game or two of this series because you know it’s going to happen.
"god, you’re fucking stupid."
-- Larry
by SSH2005 on Sep 16, 2008 10:04 AM CDT 0 recs
The problem is...
aside from Jenks and Thornton, the Sox don’t have any non-bum relievers.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on
Sep 16, 2008 10:06 AM CDT
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MacDougal isn't any great shakes either...
but I’d rather see him in there over Wassermann and Ramirez, just based on stuff alone. Don’t throw him in there when the true bums have already choked up the lead.
"god, you’re fucking stupid."
-- Larry
by SSH2005 on
Sep 16, 2008 10:09 AM CDT
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i think 82% of clowns are molesters
just by random sampling as a kid.
by Trooper on
Sep 16, 2008 10:26 AM CDT
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analysis too pedestrian?
three cheers for wu, the all-time leader in opos+.
by Toonderstrook on
Sep 16, 2008 10:33 AM CDT
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You were molesting people even as a kid?
I knew you were sick, Trooper, but this…
"I suck... the Sox don’t." reply actions 25 recs
by SSH2005 on Aug 6, 2008 1:08 AM EDT
by winningugly on
Sep 16, 2008 10:46 AM CDT
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i used to screw around on the metra tracks off of foster and nw highway
me and another kid, it was our hangout. we never questioned why there were chairs up there. the last time we went there we were pissed that some homeless dude had moved in on our territory.
by Trooper on
Sep 16, 2008 11:03 AM CDT
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Have you guys seen those new e-trade commericals with the talking baby (first creepy mistake)?
The first time I ever saw it, I said within the first 10 seconds of talking baby, “Shit, this is creepy.” There was a clown making balloon animals in the background of the baby’s room. icky.
At the end of the commerical, the baby says, “I hired a clown,” or something, and then, “I didn’t realize it was going to be so creepy.”
That line redeemed the commercial for me.
The most recent one I saw, the baby is talking and talking, creepy creepy creepy, and then after he “trades,” he just throws up.
It’s fucking disgusting.
...and then some depressed fucked-cake eating.
by homesickalien on
Sep 16, 2008 10:49 AM CDT
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those commercials are hilarious!
i still like the first one from the super bowl where he’s got the girl calling him. yeah, clowns are creepy, but that kid is the best thing since those kung-fu hamsters.
by Trooper on
Sep 16, 2008 10:58 AM CDT
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It's been on at least since the Super Bowl this year. Where have you been?
“I really underestimated the creepiness” is the line, I believe.
"I suck... the Sox don’t." reply actions 25 recs
by SSH2005 on Aug 6, 2008 1:08 AM EDT
by winningugly on
Sep 16, 2008 10:58 AM CDT
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Wow. Just saw them last week for the first time...
I don’t actually watch tv.
The games are on mlbtv, so I only gots the albino guy.
Didn’t watch the Superbowl….
outta the loop.
...and then some depressed fucked-cake eating.
by homesickalien on
Sep 16, 2008 11:03 AM CDT
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guess ther eisn't much water cooler talk on the ports
"Deserve's got nothin to do with it."
by U-God on
Sep 16, 2008 12:11 PM CDT
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(crickets)
...and then some depressed fucked-cake eating.
by homesickalien on Sep 16, 2008 10:42 AM CDT 0 recs
here are some pettitte numbers i found interesting
- in his last 4 starts over 22.7 IP he has allowed 36 hits and 6 walks
- ERA before ASB 4.03— after ASB 5.43
- career BAA/OPS vs RHB .271/.728, vs LHB .271/.712
- 2008 BAA/OPS vs RHB .323/.843, vs LHB .207/.542
- sox batters with an OPS over .900 vs pettitte— AJ, griffey, konerko, owens, swisher, ocab(ocab, swish and owens with 6 or fewer ABs) dye has an OPS of .893.
- of any player to bat against pettitte, scott podsenik has the 3rd highest OPS at 3.333. (brad eldred is 5th at 2.667)
- harold baines has more ABs aginst pettitte than joe crede
- horacio ramirez has a 1.000 OPS against pettitte
brian anderson would've caught that...
by BuehrleMan on Sep 16, 2008 10:57 AM CDT 0 recs
Gotta win tonight...
The Twins have Liriano goes against 0-3 Zach Jackson.
"god, you’re fucking stupid."
-- Larry
by SSH2005 on Sep 16, 2008 11:14 AM CDT 0 recs
liriano sucks...no slider.
three cheers for wu, the all-time leader in opos+.
by Toonderstrook on
Sep 16, 2008 11:45 AM CDT
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If the Sox can win the next two games...
They can probably get a 2.5 game lead. The Twins will probably win tonight but lose tomorrow against Cliff Lee.
"god, you’re fucking stupid."
-- Larry
by SSH2005 on
Sep 16, 2008 12:32 PM CDT
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you're probably the guy who has all four 1 seeds making the final four every year
aren’t you?
"Deserve's got nothin to do with it."
by U-God on
Sep 16, 2008 12:37 PM CDT
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Here I thought I was being rational, reasonable, and positive...
Guess not.
"god, you’re fucking stupid."
-- Larry
by SSH2005 on
Sep 16, 2008 12:39 PM CDT
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actually i thought that was a pretty good point
nothing gets ‘em wetter than infrequent postings on the city’s second favorite team
by colintj on
Sep 16, 2008 12:46 PM CDT
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Lance Broadway @ Phil Hughes tomorrow should be interesting though...
I doubt anyone wants to see the porn star facing the Yankees’ lineup.
"god, you’re fucking stupid."
-- Larry
by SSH2005 on
Sep 16, 2008 12:55 PM CDT
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agreed
this isn't hard. you live in a port city. and you're a slut. do the math. -larry
by rhythm on
Sep 16, 2008 2:10 PM CDT
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Liriano isn't a lock - remember last week's prediction? -
but the odds are you are correct.
"I suck... the Sox don’t." reply actions 25 recs
by SSH2005 on Aug 6, 2008 1:08 AM EDT
by winningugly on
Sep 16, 2008 2:32 PM CDT
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Ozzie is right though...
The Sox just need to win and shouldn’t have to be worrying about the Twins losing, even though it is a nice side benefit.
"god, you’re fucking stupid."
-- Larry
by SSH2005 on
Sep 16, 2008 2:36 PM CDT
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Isn't that what the OPOS here has been saying?
Win and the rest takes care of itself. It’s be great to have a 3+ lead on the Twinkerbells in Minny.
"I suck... the Sox don’t." reply actions 25 recs
by SSH2005 on Aug 6, 2008 1:08 AM EDT
by winningugly on
Sep 16, 2008 2:38 PM CDT
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thank you for the lack of absolutism
i might have made up a word, but it does help to get your point across by just using the word probably
brndnprkns: I'm pretty sure the "badass" value of your life is closer to Gigli than The Dark Knight
by whitesoxmatt on
Sep 16, 2008 1:07 PM CDT
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pick one:
nothing gets ‘em wetter than infrequent postings on the city’s second favorite team
by colintj on
Sep 16, 2008 1:21 PM CDT
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There will be no problems tonight
Ozzie and Cooper have come up with a new selection process.
regards
....fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts
by hoodlight on Sep 16, 2008 12:02 PM CDT 3 recs
good one, hoodie!
this isn't hard. you live in a port city. and you're a slut. do the math. -larry
by rhythm on
Sep 16, 2008 12:18 PM CDT
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You looney Brit!
:)
...and then some depressed fucked-cake eating.
by homesickalien on
Sep 16, 2008 12:54 PM CDT
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Rec'd.
You have taken long enough to get creative. Better late than never, mate!
"I suck... the Sox don’t." reply actions 25 recs
by SSH2005 on Aug 6, 2008 1:08 AM EDT
by winningugly on
Sep 16, 2008 2:34 PM CDT
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Sounds like Konerko will play tonight...
“Konerko poised to return Tuesday
First baseman has been nursing a sprained right knee”
"god, you’re fucking stupid."
-- Larry
by SSH2005 on Sep 16, 2008 12:56 PM CDT 0 recs
Great quote by Ozzie...
“We have to win,” Guillen said after the Sox’s shortcomings resurfaced in a 4-2 loss to the Yankees. “We don’t have to hope for somebody to beat Minnesota.”
"god, you’re fucking stupid."
-- Larry
by SSH2005 on Sep 16, 2008 1:01 PM CDT 0 recs
And another...
There was a twinkle in Guillen’s eye as he continued to joke about whether the Sox could make one last push away from Minnesota and win the division with 13 games left.
“Those little piranhas are out of teeth now,” quipped Guillen, referring to the nickname he gave the Twins two years ago for their pesky style. "I got the feeling they don’t have any teeth left. They’ve been fighting and grinding all year long. They should have little teeth now.
“It’s time for us to pull them out and win it. Hopefully we stay in the pennant race.”
"god, you’re fucking stupid."
-- Larry
by SSH2005 on
Sep 16, 2008 1:02 PM CDT
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I LIKE THIS
In response to this thread . . . .
“I don’t want to lose confidence in those guys, but they have to do it,” said Guillen, who is forced to lean on his relievers while opting for a four-man rotation down the stretch. “If I get paid by each visit to the mound, I won’t need a salary.”
by Option27 on
Sep 16, 2008 1:04 PM CDT
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Tonight's starters -- Jesse is BACK!!!
The offense should be fortified Tuesday by the expected return of Paul Konerko from a strained right knee ligament. And Guillen plans to rest Ken Griffey Jr., who made three exceptional plays in center, and Nick Swisher on Tuesday and play Jerry Owens and Brian Anderson in an attempt to generate more offense against left-hander Andy Pettitte.
"god, you’re fucking stupid."
-- Larry
by SSH2005 on Sep 16, 2008 1:04 PM CDT 0 recs
So tonight's lineup is probably something like this?
SS Cabrera
CF Anderson
RF Dye
DH Thome
1B Konerko
2B Ramirez
3B Uribe
C Hall
LF Owens
"god, you’re fucking stupid."
-- Larry
by SSH2005 on
Sep 16, 2008 1:09 PM CDT
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thats a thing of beauty
brndnprkns: I'm pretty sure the "badass" value of your life is closer to Gigli than The Dark Knight
by whitesoxmatt on
Sep 16, 2008 1:10 PM CDT
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Well, Griffey is absolutely pathetic against lefties so I don't mind seeing him benched tonight...
At least the outfield defense should be good. And Jerry Owens has a 2.000 OPS against lefties this season, haha.
"god, you’re fucking stupid."
-- Larry
by SSH2005 on
Sep 16, 2008 1:16 PM CDT
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And Fat Toby is 5 for 17 against Pettitte in his career.
"god, you’re fucking stupid."
-- Larry
by SSH2005 on
Sep 16, 2008 1:18 PM CDT
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Just noticed that Pierzynski is even better against him...
7 for 16.
"god, you’re fucking stupid."
-- Larry
by SSH2005 on
Sep 16, 2008 1:19 PM CDT
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griffey is 17 for 50 with a .941 OPS against pettitte
thome is 6 for 25 with a .641 OPS.
brian anderson would've caught that...
by BuehrleMan on
Sep 16, 2008 1:20 PM CDT
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Hmmm...
Looks like Griffey at DH with Thome sitting might be the best option. Although, Griffey definitely ain’t the player he was when he was raking Pettitte.
"god, you’re fucking stupid."
-- Larry
by SSH2005 on
Sep 16, 2008 1:22 PM CDT
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i think griffey has had some decent ABs lately
but i wish he would stop posing after he hits a double to the gap or flies out to medium deep center.
brian anderson would've caught that...
by BuehrleMan on
Sep 16, 2008 1:27 PM CDT
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Yeah, Griffey needs to realize that his power is gone in his old age.
"god, you’re fucking stupid."
-- Larry
by SSH2005 on
Sep 16, 2008 1:30 PM CDT
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and thome has been better this year against lefties
with a .906 OPS vs a career .766
brndnprkns: I'm pretty sure the "badass" value of your life is closer to Gigli than The Dark Knight
by whitesoxmatt on
Sep 16, 2008 1:27 PM CDT
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they should ride thome's hot streak against lefties for as long as they can
fight like a cat: paws up. - ozzie
by larry on
Sep 16, 2008 1:35 PM CDT
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I don't understand Owens starting...
He’s another lefty and he has no chance to steal any bases against Pettitte (although this is probably a good thing).
"god, you’re fucking stupid."
-- Larry
by SSH2005 on
Sep 16, 2008 1:40 PM CDT
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