Swisher Benched On the Big Stage
On this World Series off-day, anyone up for some Swisher-bashing?
22 days ago
oahu420
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to be fair
i don’t thnk oahu thought he was breaking any news here and i hadn’t seen any previous links to this article. and….
fuck nick swisher and the yankees.
the suck is not just a river in ireland.
by BuehrleMan on Oct 31, 2009 11:00 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Seriously dude. You are being a total dick lately. I don't think it should surprise you that we'd not take well to your constant Yankee-love around here.
I am not kidding. If you feel the need to promote Yankee baseball, why not participate on Pinstripe Alley?
You’ve gone from simply commenting that you were in support of the Yanks, to being a dick to everyone who responds to you or says anything negative about them….which we’re gonna do since – NEWSFLASH – this is a White Sox blog and most of us do not like the Yankees.
Follow HH’s lead – you don’t have to be an asshole to support another team.
by homesickalien on Oct 31, 2009 11:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
aw, can't stand someone winding you guys up?
waaaaaaaaaaaah!!!!!!!!!!!!! i hate the yankees and nick swisher!!!!!!!!! everyone should, too!!!!!!!!!!!!! if you don’t participate in our yankee and nick swisher bashing, you’re being a total dick!!!!!!!!!! FNS!!!
by larry on Oct 31, 2009 12:08 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
No, I can stand it just fine, thanks. But why does he have to be an ass to everyone who responds negatively?
by homesickalien on Oct 31, 2009 12:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
because you guys are being hilarious.
oh, FNS, i hate the yankees. who cares. he likes the yankees. you don’t.
here’s a NEWSFLASH, too. some of us were following baseball when the two leagues were actually different and, absent exceptional circumstances, still would never favor an NL team over an AL team. so perhaps have some understanding for those of us who find it odd that on a white sox blog there would be such overwhelming support for an NL team.
by larry on Oct 31, 2009 12:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well said. Thanks for being the lone voice of reason.
See you guys in the offseason.
by Q!'s Qrew on Oct 31, 2009 1:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am not rooting for either, I don't support either. I don't like NL teams, nor do I like the Yankees. As a Sox fan, I am indifferent.
I just don’t need some Yankees fan telling me, on a Sox blog, to ‘get fucked’ or ‘get bent’ because I don’t think that some pro-NY song was all that great, for example.
by homesickalien on Oct 31, 2009 1:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
as the one who likely originated, or at least popularized,
the “why don’t you take it to another sbnation site”, don’t use it if you can’t take the usual reply.
by larry on Oct 31, 2009 2:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
These are the kind of moves Joe Girardi gets paid the big bucks for.
Dumbass. Maybe he can bench A-Rod for Eric Hinske while he’s at it.
The 2009 White Sox....like a 40 degree day.
by Ozzie Montana on Oct 31, 2009 12:31 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
i don't know how terrible a move it is.
i understand swisher is generally better (at least at batting) than whoever they might replace him with, but there may be something to be said for giving a guy a “break” when he is going very badly. anyway, anything bad that happens to him baseball wise is fine by me.
the suck is not just a river in ireland.
by BuehrleMan on Oct 31, 2009 12:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, what a dumbass.
He should ignore that career .153/.306/.203 line Swisher has put up in 20 playoff games. Just because it’s the world series doesn’t mean you can’t give a guy a chance to work his way out of a slump. Your Hinske/A-Rod comparison is spot-on too.
If the world was perfect, it wouldn't be -- Yogi Berra
by mick10 on Oct 31, 2009 1:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
20 playoff games.
nothing like taking a random grouping of games over a four year period and making it out as something meaningful.
by larry on Oct 31, 2009 1:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
exactly. playoff games are meaningless.
If the world was perfect, it wouldn't be -- Yogi Berra
by mick10 on Oct 31, 2009 2:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
exactly. you can't comprehend worth shit.
If the world was perfect, it wouldn't be -- Yogi Berra
by mick10 on Oct 31, 2009 4:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Knowing that a hitter has been in or is in the midst of a hot or cold streak has little predictive value. Always assume that a player will hit at his projected norm (adjusted for the park, weather and pitcher he is facing), regardless of how he has performed in the very recent past.
page 61.
even less useful is how he has performed in 20 non-consecutive games over a four year period. this stuff has been studied repeatedly. regurgitating the same discredited garbage is silly.
by larry on Oct 31, 2009 4:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
over the course of a season, yes.
The game changes in the playoffs because you are dealing with a single series and the stakes are much higher. Managers manage the game differently because of that. 2 inning saves, starters coming out of the bullpen, pinch running for stars late in tight games, catchers chosen based on pitchers preference, matchups, etc.
Tango wouldn’t know if Swisher’s swing or confidence were messed up but the manager and hitting coach would. Regurgitating the same statistical garbage in this case is beyond silly. It’s stupid.
If the world was perfect, it wouldn't be -- Yogi Berra
by mick10 on Oct 31, 2009 5:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yup.
i should trust the guy who makes a mistake in benching swisher and then compounds the mistake by starting hairston instead of the clearly superior gardner. but i guess that’s just how you manage in the playoffs.
by larry on Oct 31, 2009 5:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
well, he may not have managed to your liking but if i'm not mistaken, they won.
Gardner is clearly superior in baserunning and defense. Maybe he wanted to keep the clearly superior baserunner available to pinch run in a critical situation and then replace a poor defensive outfielder? After all, once the decision to bench Swisher was made he needed a right fielder in the game, not a center fielder. You can argue the benching but he didn’t compound it at all.
If the world was perfect, it wouldn't be -- Yogi Berra
by mick10 on Oct 31, 2009 6:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
even if that were his reasoning, it would not make sense.
in this instance, playing the better player the whole game has a greater impact on win expectancy than leveraging gardner in a pinch running situation.
just because they won does not mean the approach is correct.
by larry on Oct 31, 2009 6:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
so you would have played Gardner in rf?
Or Melky in right and Gardner in center?
If the world was perfect, it wouldn't be -- Yogi Berra
by mick10 on Oct 31, 2009 6:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
the latter.
obviously girardi thinks that is the optimal defensive arrangement, as well.
by larry on Oct 31, 2009 6:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn't want Melky playing rf the entire game.
Once he pinch ran for Hairston that’s what he had to do. It’s popular right now to 2nd guess girardi on everything he does but he managed a good game Thursday.
If the world was perfect, it wouldn't be -- Yogi Berra
by mick10 on Oct 31, 2009 6:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
why would you not play cabrera in right?
by larry on Oct 31, 2009 6:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's a center fielder
If the world was perfect, it wouldn't be -- Yogi Berra
by mick10 on Oct 31, 2009 6:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
seems to play fine in RF.
and it’s not like hairston is even an outfielder.
by larry on Oct 31, 2009 6:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
seems to play cf better and a helluva lot more of it.
If the world was perfect, it wouldn't be -- Yogi Berra
by mick10 on Oct 31, 2009 7:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
depends where they're playing.
and what your plan is. He had the winning formula didn’t he?
If the world was perfect, it wouldn't be -- Yogi Berra
by mick10 on Oct 31, 2009 7:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
he seems to enjoy increasing their level of difficulty.
by larry on Oct 31, 2009 7:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yes, much more difficult to win the series tied at 1 than being down 0-2.
If the world was perfect, it wouldn't be -- Yogi Berra
by mick10 on Oct 31, 2009 7:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
also much more difficult to win game two when you make moves that decrease your win expectancy.
i certainly must give joe the soothsayer girardi credit, though, because, as you point out, he knew going into the game that aj burnett and mariano rivera were going to give up one run so it didn’t matter who he played in right.
by larry on Oct 31, 2009 7:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought JHJ was playing
because he was 10-17 lifetime against Pedro? Or is that statistcially insignificant?
CAN'T GET ANY WORSE THAN THAT. THANK YOU. GOOD NIGHT. by BuehrleMan
by winningugly on Oct 31, 2009 7:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
highly significant.
particularly since he last faced pedro when you were married to your first wife.
by larry on Oct 31, 2009 7:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
there you go, picking random groupings of insignificant stats over many years.
According to Larry and Tango, that is insignificant. Statistically, that is.
If the world was perfect, it wouldn't be -- Yogi Berra
by mick10 on Oct 31, 2009 8:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
please provide evidence that it is significant.
by larry on Oct 31, 2009 8:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If I had to pick between Gardner's "significance"
vs. the dual “signficance” of FNS’ failure in his recent end of season+postseason crap (extending to last year) PLUS the history of Hairston v. Wily Pedro, I’ll take the latter.
Trends start with but a small step.
CAN'T GET ANY WORSE THAN THAT. THANK YOU. GOOD NIGHT. by BuehrleMan
by winningugly on Oct 31, 2009 8:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
even if you believe in hitter/pitcher matchups (and there probably is something to it, however small)
pedro is a totally different pitcher – motion, velocity, repertoire, so on – than he was when hairston was facing him.
by larry on Oct 31, 2009 8:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thought you might like this in today's WSJ:
The most egregious recent example of this small sample size overreaction was Nick Swisher. Heading into Saturday night’s Game 3, Swisher was 4 for 40 in this year’s playoffs. Was there something wrong with Swisher? Was he a choker? Did he not fit the ridiculous label that is "True Yankee", wilting under the expectations of the spooky ghosts of Babe Ruth, Lou Gehrig and Miguel Cairo? Joe Girardi apparently thought so earlier this series. Girardi pulled a rarely seen Double Small Sample Size Overreaction, benching Swisher in Game 2 for his slump, and replacing him with Jerry Hairston, who’d had some success against Pedro Martinez in his career — never mind that the sum of that history was 27 at-bats, and that he’d last faced Pedro five years ago.
http://blogs.wsj.com/dailyfix/2009/10/31/world-series-diary-yankees-at-phillies/
Maybe the benching refocused him. Did’ja think of THAT?
"don tink about new jork. jus come in ready to wing de gay."
by winningugly on Nov 2, 2009 12:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
And I know Swish is out either way,
whether replaced by Gardner of Hairston. So, do some guys/teams “own” a pitcher, though it makes no statistical sense? I vote “yea”. And I guess the only way to have you acknowledge that FJG made a decent call would’ve been for JHJ to hit against Pedro – just to justify it. But that would’ve been statistically insignificant. So how do you win?
CAN'T GET ANY WORSE THAN THAT. THANK YOU. GOOD NIGHT. by BuehrleMan
by winningugly on Oct 31, 2009 8:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You have it all wrong WU.
Look at page 61. World Series or not, you have to keep marching out the guys with the better stats. The world series is no different than a game in June.
If the world was perfect, it wouldn't be -- Yogi Berra
by mick10 on Oct 31, 2009 8:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
BTW, did you see this re: Pedro?
The wily 38-year-old, who spent most of the spring gardening with his mother in the Dominican Republic without a contract, has made himself the talk of the postseason. He has reminded baseball fans, and the choleric people who cover the game, of a time when the players with the most talent saw it as their birthright, if not their sacred responsibility, to indulge in the occasional bout of outrageous, eccentric and altogether inexplicable behavior.
\
WTF is with the “wily”?
CAN'T GET ANY WORSE THAN THAT. THANK YOU. GOOD NIGHT. by BuehrleMan
by winningugly on Oct 31, 2009 8:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's always been a bit of a flake.
Makes you wonder what else is in those Dominican shakes.
If the world was perfect, it wouldn't be -- Yogi Berra
by mick10 on Oct 31, 2009 8:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm confused as to why innings 1-7 aren't full of critical situations
The 2009 White Sox....like a 40 degree day.
by Ozzie Montana on Oct 31, 2009 6:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yes, I'm sure you are.
If the world was perfect, it wouldn't be -- Yogi Berra
by mick10 on Oct 31, 2009 6:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, it's the atmosphere.
Must be why noted playoff chokers like Cliff Lee, CC Sabathia, and Alex Rodgriguez have been downright dominant so far. Or, why AJ Burnett threw a gem in his first WS game ever.
The 2009 White Sox....like a 40 degree day.
by Ozzie Montana on Oct 31, 2009 6:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, I'd put Swish right up there with those guys.
You know, same talent level, same position and everything.
If the world was perfect, it wouldn't be -- Yogi Berra
by mick10 on Oct 31, 2009 6:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sounds like Deluca's not very fond of Swisher
Saying that the benching was “long overdue” for the “camera seeking missile”, calling his year with the Sox “forgettable.”
Swisher’s a jackass. fns.amen.
Look yonder, fellow SSSers. 2010 looms bright!
And fns. -wu
by oahu420 on Oct 31, 2009 3:23 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
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