Bruce Levine Speculates on the White Sox' 2010 Payroll
After spending close to $97 million on its 2009 payroll, the Chicago White Sox have committed $72 million to 10 players next season. According to the vibe on the South Side, corporate spending will not be any better to help the team's payroll in 2010.
Sources say the Sox payroll for next season will be $95 million. In order to have a productive club ready to overtake the Detroit Tigers and Minnesota Twins in the AL Central Division, general manager Kenny Williams and company will have to be more active in the trading market than the more costly free-agent route.
The future of closer Bobby Jenks will be a key component to offseason additions. After earning over $5 million in 2009, Jenks' automatic number if he goes to arbitration will be between $7 million-$8 million next season. That type of money may be too pricey for the White Sox as they put together the back end of their bullpen.
Team officials already believe set-up man Matt Thornton is ready to handle the physical and mental aspects of the closer's job. If indeed that's the case, Jenks could be used as trade bait for much-needed help from a set-up man.
about 1 month ago
The Cheat
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what a suprise. In a section in which members are encouraged to give their own two cents worth, larry puts in half-a-dollar
Twitter: @SouthSideCheat
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by The Cheat on Oct 7, 2009 3:07 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
count it!
2009 is just 2007 in 2008's clothing. - Trooper
by colintj on Oct 7, 2009 6:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Probably Canadian
or chocolate…
My signature has been drinking, not me...
by DrEmilioLizardo on Oct 7, 2009 9:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bruce has been reading larry.
"his ballerness could not be stoped which rose his era to 5.42 "
by Chiburb on Oct 7, 2009 3:06 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Jenks is really the only easy way to clear payroll
If they do that, and factoring in the raises for Q and Danks, they could still take on Chone at 3 × 10 without other wholesale changes.
How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love 2010
by Nordhagen on Oct 7, 2009 3:07 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
i heard he's not going anywhere
I’m pretty sure its because he rules or something
How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love 2010
by Nordhagen on Oct 7, 2009 3:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
cant trade away the Man
How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love 2010
by Nordhagen on Oct 7, 2009 3:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Negative Nellie, you are.
I was a Catholic boy, Redeemed through pain, not through joy - Jim Carroll
by winningugly on Oct 7, 2009 3:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yes
Ugh that season completely sucked but i have so many other things to look forward to. GO BLACKHAWKS! GO BEARS! 2010 WHITE SOX!
by pierzynskirules on Oct 7, 2009 4:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd take a set-up man before Chone any day of the week.
The tension is so thick, I could FNS with it. -SkanchoDanza
by homesickalien on Oct 7, 2009 3:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
stoopid girlz
In Minnesota, when 11,000 people are in the Dome, you feel like you are at an especially depressing demolition derby. -Joe Posnanski
by e-gus on Oct 7, 2009 3:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Our opinions are allowed to differ.
The tension is so thick, I could FNS with it. -SkanchoDanza
by homesickalien on Oct 7, 2009 3:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
why would you want go with a wrong one though?
2009 is just 2007 in 2008's clothing. - Trooper
by colintj on Oct 7, 2009 6:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
To provoke the larrybeast.
The tension is so thick, I could FNS with it. -SkanchoDanza
by homesickalien on Oct 8, 2009 9:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i'm all for letting the Cubs to overpay for a 32 yr old coming off an irreproducible career year
2009: Not with a bang but a whimper.
by Andronicus on Oct 7, 2009 4:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Really worked out for them last time.
The Boogeyman cometh
by omnipotent grab on Oct 7, 2009 9:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
mebbe konerko could be dealt
doubtful, but you never know.
by Hatchetm on Oct 7, 2009 3:10 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Thornton is ready, Jenks can go.
I agree with HSA on Figgins. Third base is supposed to be a power postion and I don’t
get all this salivating over Figgins. We need another set-up man of the caliber of Thornton. Let’s find us somebody who can lead off, leave Becks at 3rd and get rid of that dumb SOB who ain’t learned to run the bases.
by CATDADDY47 on Oct 7, 2009 3:37 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I agree, I say shop Daniel Hudson for a setup man
by hitlesswonder on Oct 7, 2009 3:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hudson is going nowhere after being hidden on the farm this summer.
(Unless we can pry away someone with a proven track record who is cheap. I have no idea who that would be.)
I was a Catholic boy, Redeemed through pain, not through joy - Jim Carroll
by winningugly on Oct 7, 2009 3:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah...I wasn't completely serious
Actually I do want to see Hudson in the White Sox major league pen next season. Setup man sounds like a good idea.
by hitlesswonder on Oct 7, 2009 3:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't
but that’s because I think he’ll be good, at which point he becomes invaluable to the pen, but overall limits his value to the team as he could be throwing league average ball from the rotation instead. It’s a paradoxical situation in that the better he pitches, the more he cements his position as a “reliever” and limits his overall value to the club.
Twitter: @SouthSideCheat
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by The Cheat on Oct 7, 2009 3:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
that assumes the white sox don't/can't transition a young guy from the minors to the bullpen to the rotation.
maybe so.
by larry on Oct 7, 2009 4:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
They've done it in the past... Garland and Buehrle both saw time in the pen
but they’ve never done it with a valuable member of the pen. And that’s where I would assume Hudson ends up if he is indeed put in the pen next year — I imagine Jenks would be gone, probably dotel too, Thonrton is now “closer” and Linebrink is still shit… So it’s Carrasco and Hudson fighting for the set-up position. And as soon as Hudson proves capable of locking down an 8th inning lead, gaining the “set-up man” tag, his chances of ever becoming a starting pitcher become remote
Twitter: @SouthSideCheat
SouthSideSox on Facebook
by The Cheat on Oct 7, 2009 4:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
But he'll get the call to start when someone gets injured
I trust them to decide to stretch him out and use him rather than insert Torres for the duration.
If there’s another option to have a decent setup man, that would be great. But for love of all that’s holy I don’t want the Sox to trade for again (PENA!) and I don’t want them to waste money signing one (LINEY!). So I think the best way to use their resources is to put Hudson there.
Whatever money and/or trade chips are available should be used to fill the DH and OF holes.
by hitlesswonder on Oct 7, 2009 4:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I haven't looked over who's going to be a free agent
but hasn’t the market more-or-less corrected itself on non-elite/closer relief pitchers? The main ones I remember from last winter were Brandon Lyon and Juan Cruz — did either one get >$3 million in free agency?
In any case, if the Sox do trade Jenks — and color me skeptical as far as the Sox being able to get a heckuva lot in return. I say this more because I think GMs have gotten quite a bit brighter over the past several years, and Jenks at $8 million doesn’t look particularly attractive — I think they could dive into the free agent market for a reliever if need be.
by CWSKeith on Oct 7, 2009 5:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
bucket o' balls style.
and considering the potential return on the 7-8M freed up, that’s fine by me.
2009 is just 2007 in 2008's clothing. - Trooper
by colintj on Oct 7, 2009 6:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
When was the last time that happened?
I can’t remember. Terry Forster? Bart Johnson?
I was a Catholic boy, Redeemed through pain, not through joy - Jim Carroll
by winningugly on Oct 7, 2009 4:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
see?
done. waste of time to scour the earth for a reliever. or trade anything for them. or pay them much of anything. bullpens are crapshoots. get some parts together and see what sticks. focus the resources on players who actually matter.
by larry on Oct 7, 2009 3:58 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
i concur with this
tony pena could be the best thing since sliced bread next year and linebrink could re model himself as a wily veteran type. the flip side is you get the same as this season. but hudson should be ironed to start in my opinion. regards
by hoodlight on Oct 7, 2009 4:14 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
agree generally
but if your parts don’t stick, you are in deep shit.
by Hatchetm on Oct 7, 2009 7:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
so go find some more parts
2009 is just 2007 in 2008's clothing. - Trooper
by colintj on Oct 7, 2009 7:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i haven't seen anything
but i have been skipping the baseball folder in my g-reader lately
2009 is just 2007 in 2008's clothing. - Trooper
by colintj on Oct 7, 2009 8:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
no, i was saying he should leadoff.
ever since we got rid of adam russell, just don’t have that versatility.
by larry on Oct 7, 2009 3:44 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
you're on a roll
Or if Peterson's "troublesome" back gives out. Because he's, you know, carrying the team. And some of those guys are heavy.
Mitchell M
by blackoutsox on Oct 8, 2009 8:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sure wish we'd thought of this possibility
and discussed it ad nauseum.
How much does Levine get paid? It’s too much.
I was a Catholic boy, Redeemed through pain, not through joy - Jim Carroll
by winningugly on Oct 7, 2009 3:41 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
BTW, site loooks fixed.
I was a Catholic boy, Redeemed through pain, not through joy - Jim Carroll
by winningugly on Oct 7, 2009 3:47 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
If Jenks leaves, then we will need someone to play the "Fat Guy" role
Uribe, Hall, and Colon filled the role, but who’ve we got now? I had high hopes for Ray King last year.
Anyway, without fat jokes/photoshops to make, I think our comment count is down by about 10%.
How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love 2010
by Nordhagen on Oct 7, 2009 3:48 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
We still have the alcoholic jokes.
And with Peavy around the whole season we’ll have the redneck quota filled. I’m very hopeful we will still have enough personal foibles to skewer to make it an interesting site.
And maybe we’ll win a few. Whatthehell.
I was a Catholic boy, Redeemed through pain, not through joy - Jim Carroll
by winningugly on Oct 7, 2009 3:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you've seen Buehrle's truck, he already have star-quality redneck...
2009: Not with a bang but a whimper.
by Andronicus on Oct 7, 2009 4:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
he*=we
2009: Not with a bang but a whimper.
by Andronicus on Oct 7, 2009 4:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Q: Who had the 2nd best bullpen FIP in the AL this year?
A: the Sox’s ‘awful’, hole-repleted bullpen
Pena is essentially the same pitcher as Dotel, Easy Heat upgrades Jenks, and Hudson is fully capable of reproducing Bobby’s 4.5 FIP in a set-up role. Let’s get a decent bat for Jenks and learn to stop worrying about the bullpen (which is just as likely to be lights-out as it is to be awful).
2009: Not with a bang but a whimper.
by Andronicus on Oct 7, 2009 4:08 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Adding on to what I said above
what are people’s expectations as far as a return for Jenks? Particular teams and players would be useful, but aren’t necessary…
by CWSKeith on Oct 7, 2009 5:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
in the AL
only TB or maybe NY make much sense to me. Upton and Melky are interesting but the price is likely too steep. in the NL, Philly might at least kick the tires. Werth would have been gettable a year ago, but not after a career year. not sure what else they have that might interest KW…Ben Francisco maybe? might be a soft market…
2009: Not with a bang but a whimper.
by Andronicus on Oct 7, 2009 6:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The White Sox were 18th in ERA and 6th in FIP.
Looks like the they had bad luck with BABIP where they were last in the league. I don’t think the bullpen is a big concern.
by MrBungle on Oct 7, 2009 4:38 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
also ungood fielding
" Do you guys know people like you are the reason I wouldn’t come on for exstended periods of time. You rui the baseball blogging expieriance."
by trademaker on May 30, 2009 10:31 PM PDT
by U-God on Oct 7, 2009 4:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
might have 76638444 to do with the differs
by hoodlight on Oct 7, 2009 4:49 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
also last in the league in BABIP for our hitters.
2009 is just 2007 in 2008's clothing. - Trooper
by colintj on Oct 7, 2009 6:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
due to their inability to hit line drives (last in MLB)
2009: Not with a bang but a whimper.
by Andronicus on Oct 7, 2009 6:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
line drives don't correlate that well with BABIP
seen the Bendix BABIP article?
2009 is just 2007 in 2008's clothing. - Trooper
by colintj on Oct 7, 2009 6:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
the latest xBABIP still considers LD%, just to a lesser degree than it previously did...
i’d be interested to see which Sox were ‘unlucky’ and which really weren’t
2009: Not with a bang but a whimper.
by Andronicus on Oct 7, 2009 6:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
it may well turn out to matter more
but the bigger issue is the data isn’t that great. that, and there are myriad factors in the xBABIP model. just looking at LD% isn’t going to be that telling.
2009 is just 2007 in 2008's clothing. - Trooper
by colintj on Oct 7, 2009 7:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
From Fan Graphs
“While this is useful for looking at past performances, the difference in xBABIP and BABIP should not be used in an attempt to evaluate future performance. This is because LD% and BABIP are somewhat independent of each other. While there is some correlation between LD% and BABIP, it isn’t enough to suggest that they will always track each other.
LD% in itself is highly variable and it would be difficult to say that a pitcher with a BABIP of .300 and a LD% of 22% (xBABIP of .340) should do considerably worse going forward because you really don’t know what his LD% is going to be the rest of the season. His xBABIP of .340 was his expected BABIP and will not be his expected BABIP in the future. Typically a pitcher’s expected BABIP in the future will be around the original baseline of .300."
by MrBungle on Oct 7, 2009 6:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
big difference if you're looking at pitcher BABIP, we're talking about batters only
2009: Not with a bang but a whimper.
by Andronicus on Oct 7, 2009 7:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Very true. It seems the Baseball Gods did not smile kindly down upon us this year.
by MrBungle on Oct 7, 2009 6:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i wonder how many runs that was worth
i want to say that was probably only 2-3 wins. not a difference maker, in other words.
2009 is just 2007 in 2008's clothing. - Trooper
by colintj on Oct 7, 2009 6:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ya, I was only talking about the BABIP for the bullpen. With starters included
we are pretty close to the median so the luck factor probably did not cost us the playoffs.
by MrBungle on Oct 7, 2009 6:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
ah, right. i'd still be interested to know
what a point in team BABIP difference would be worth in terms of runs.
2009 is just 2007 in 2008's clothing. - Trooper
by colintj on Oct 7, 2009 7:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Realistically,
can we expect anything of value for Jenks? Or do we just let him go for next to nothing?
by ballyb on Oct 7, 2009 4:43 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Not sure what we can get for Jenks. His main problem this year was a decrease in his GB/FB ratio
along with an increase in HR/FB rate. His drastic increase in his K/9 rate from last year leads me to believe that he was more a victim of bad luck rather than of diminishing skills.
by MrBungle on Oct 7, 2009 4:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
But what about his hammer?
The tension is so thick, I could FNS with it. -SkanchoDanza
by homesickalien on Oct 7, 2009 4:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Meaning: How do you explain the absence of - ?
The tension is so thick, I could FNS with it. -SkanchoDanza
by homesickalien on Oct 7, 2009 5:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ways to get better w/o spending $$
Kenny should go get Luke Gregorson (local kid from St. Xavier Univ. – Not yet Arb. eligible) from San Diego to handle the 8th inning. See if they’ll take Linebrink back if we pay some of his salary. Then use Hudson, Carrasco, Pena, Williams for 6th and 7th innings. This allows us to trade Jenks to Marlins for Cody Ross (RH) or Jeremy Hermida (LH) to fill outfield hole at $ 0 increase. We could then use Dye’s and Dotel’s money for Figgins or other FA.
by teepee14 on Oct 7, 2009 5:05 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
no way the padres give him up
" Do you guys know people like you are the reason I wouldn’t come on for exstended periods of time. You rui the baseball blogging expieriance."
by trademaker on May 30, 2009 10:31 PM PDT
by U-God on Oct 7, 2009 5:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
When have the Marlins ever traded a veteran for no financial relief?
EVERYBODY PICK US FOR 3RD OR 4TH SO I DINK WE DOIN POOTY GOO
Sox Machine
by Sox Machine on Oct 7, 2009 5:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
We've got 4 arb eligible players that are no-brainers to keep.
Carrasco, Pena, Danks and Quentin will cost what? I’m guessing $11 million which may be off by a little either way. That brings the payroll to $83M for 14 players. Figure Beckham, Getz, Nix, Randy Williams, Hudson, Torres or Nunez at minimum contracts of about $3M and we have $86M payroll for 20 players. With the remaining $9M we need a backup catcher, a starting outfielder, a 4th outfielder, utilty and DH.
These numbers are as if Jenks were non-tendered. Needless to say if the budget is $95M there will be no Figgins. It’s more likely we sign Pods and Kotsay to fill 2 spots and bargain hunt for the other 3. Buehrle and AJ could also be shopped.
If the world was perfect, it wouldn't be -- Yogi Berra
by mick10 on Oct 7, 2009 6:10 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Buehrle goes nowhere.
No one wants AJ, and he needs to stay another season to help T-Flow mature.
I was a Catholic boy, Redeemed through pain, not through joy - Jim Carroll
by winningugly on Oct 7, 2009 7:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would not be shocked to see both Pods and Kotsay starting for the Sox in 2010
by hitlesswonder on Oct 7, 2009 7:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
There's my favorite resident dystopian
Twitter: @SouthSideCheat
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by The Cheat on Oct 7, 2009 8:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cool, I have a role -- resident dystopian
In my defense, D. Wise was the starting CF for the Sox this season, so it’s no like there’s no justification for dystopian thought.
Anyway, I will be disappointed if those guys are starting next season. But the budget sounds really tight — enough so that acquiring Rios may have been a mistake.
by hitlesswonder on Oct 7, 2009 8:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wouldn't surprise me either if that $95M budget was a bit of a smokescreen.
These payroll numbers had to have been discussed when the decision was made to get Rios. Getting Peavy and Rios without being able to afford filling other holes doesn’t make sense. They already slashed payroll last year in anticipation of attendance being down this year. While it was down, it wasn’t down drastically and I’m hoping there is another $10M or so to play with.
If the world was perfect, it wouldn't be -- Yogi Berra
by mick10 on Oct 7, 2009 9:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Getting Peavy and Rios without being able to afford filling other holes doesn’t make sense."
On target.
Sox now have 3 years to win with these 4 pitchers. Williams needs to put the offense / (God forbid I say) defense around them. They can win a hell of a lot of games during that period.
by ballyb on Oct 7, 2009 9:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
nah, Q! and Rios' performances are highly unlikely to occur again
fill the DH hole with a Matsui type, and we’ll be just fine (assuming Gordo continues to rake)
2009: Not with a bang but a whimper.
by Andronicus on Oct 7, 2009 11:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ask not, what does the Sox Farm System Hold For Us,
Ask … what KC retread are we going to end up with?
My signature has been drinking, not me...
by DrEmilioLizardo on Oct 7, 2009 9:21 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
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