Ozzie Guillen Is Becoming Less Extreme
by The Cheat on Nov 16, 2009 9:57 PM CST
85 comments
Last off-season, prompted by a game in which I perceived the outcome to be effected by Ozzie Guillen's quick hook, I examined the evolution of Guillen's hook. I thought about taking it a step further in the dead time around Christmas again, but in flipping through the 2010 Bill James Handbook, I found they've done the work for me, though using a different methodology.
I was given an an advanced copy of the Handbook in exchange for a review and a few links (full disclosure -- Suck on it, FTC!). Unfortunately, a review isn't forthcoming anytime soon. I'm just too damn busy. But I thought I demonstrate its usefulness by simply presenting Ozzie Guillen's capsule from the managers section.
Click to enlarge, and less blurify
Thanks to e-Gus for supplying a more readable image. Still missing the last columns, but that's just W-L percentage. I think you can live.
Ozzie has become a boring manager. He doesn't seem to have any extreme tendencies anymore. Bold (extra blurry) indicates league leader. Gone are the Slow Hooks, the Long Outings, Relievers used on Consecutive Days, and all those Sacrifices Attempted. The only area where Ozzie stands out now, having intentional walks blow up in his face, isn't directly under his control (unless he stops ordering walks altogether, which, hey, I'm not against). With a rotation of Peavy, Buehrle, Danks and Floyd, and a bullpen that features only two members you can reasonably count on heading into the season, I'd love to see Ozzie fall back into his '04-'06 pattern of letting the starters work deep into games.
Key (after the jump)
G -- Games Managed
LUp -- Number of different Lineups used
PL% -- Percentage of players who had the platoon advantage at the beginning of the game
PH -- Pinch Hitters used
PR -- Pinch Runners used
DS -- Defensive Substitutes used
Quick -- Quick hooks
Slow -- Slow hooks
LO -- Long Outings by starting pitchers
RCD -- Relievers used on Consecutive Days
LS -- Long Saves
Rel -- Relievers used
SBA -- Stolen Base Attempts
SacBA -- Sacrifice Bunt Attempts
RM -- Runners Moving with the pitch
PO -- Pitchouts Orders
# -- Intentional walks issued
Good -- Intentional walks resulting in a Good outcome
NG -- Intentional walks resulting Not in a Good outcome
Bomb -- Intentional walks blowing up on a manager
W -- Wins
L -- Losses
Pct. -- Winning Percentage
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About Ozzie
He was too rigid this past season in keeping people in their pre-ordained roles in the bullpen and it bit the Sox in the ass on several occassions.
In years past it seemed to me he was way more free wheeling and going off his gut.
"I like my DH like I like my women. Fat , slow and full of power."
by soxshenanigans
by e-gus on Nov 16, 2009 10:03 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I think that only was the case with Linebrink
You could make a case for sticking with Jenks too long when he was slumping, but most managers will try and ride their (proven) closers in hopes of most of them getting back on track.
He didn’t stick with MacDougal too long.
He did finally figure out that Randy Williams should just face lefties.
It is important for Guillen, for the most part, not to just to stick to roles, especially in the middle relief – but to go with the best matchups.
What happens with this pen in 2010?
Carrasco
Jenks
Thornton
Linebrink
Pena
Keep two of these guys?
Williams?
Nunez?
Hudson?
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
by BobbySouthSide on Nov 16, 2009 10:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Jenks got almost all of the save situations until he went down.
In ‘05 it was Hermanson(0.00 era into June if I remember correctly), Mr. Zero, Marte, then Bobby and it worked.
Lately he hasnt seemed too flexible to me. I dont know, I havent done any homework on the matter, just off my ’eyes’ so maybe Im way off base.
"I like my DH like I like my women. Fat , slow and full of power."
by soxshenanigans
by e-gus on Nov 16, 2009 10:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
cliff politte's shredded shoulder saw plenty of action
These events have me frightened and on the verge of evacuating my bowels.
by thatshortkid on Nov 16, 2009 10:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree on the not too flexible ---
He seems to be managing by book now – as opposed to instinct. Which can be good and bad. Like you said by my eyes.
"ass hole thi is the same line up whit leftys you idiot"
by Brush Back on Nov 16, 2009 10:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i would disagree with MacDougal point
I think Ozzie gave him plenty of chances and supported him in public as much as he could … I remember all of us saying “OH NO, NOT MACDOUGAL, GET HIM OUT OF HERE” many times. Questioning Ozzie after MacDougal got his shit together in Washington is a bit unfair I would say
Lupe, release the balloons!
by LT_sox_fan on Nov 17, 2009 10:19 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Macdougal posted an impressive 1.0 K/BB in Washington
The world needs the Jedi now more than ever
by Carbiner on Nov 17, 2009 10:55 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
ok, "got his shit together" is not the right way to put it
maybe “became more useful” is better
Lupe, release the balloons!
by LT_sox_fan on Nov 17, 2009 11:39 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He stopped throwing his slider
which is a good thing as its pile of junk of a pitch. However, he threw 89% fastballs last year and I don’t think his heater is good enough to be thrown that often.
He’s probably not useful. He just seems to have been useful because the nationals needed someone to collect saves.
by coffeepac on Nov 17, 2009 12:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Which is why you don't spend lots of money on the bullpen.
"don tink about new jork. jus come in ready to wing de gay."
by winningugly on Nov 17, 2009 12:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The big thing I took from this years numbers was the intentional walks.
Ozzie led the AL in ‘bad’ and ‘bomb’ categories after putting someone on intentionally.
"I like my DH like I like my women. Fat , slow and full of power."
by soxshenanigans
by e-gus on Nov 16, 2009 10:54 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
But is that really Ozzie?
I mean he can only control the first column of the walks category… He’s coming down in that category
Twitter: @SouthSideCheat
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by The Cheat on Nov 16, 2009 10:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
But if it hurts, do you keep hitting yourself with the stick?
"ass hole thi is the same line up whit leftys you idiot"
by Brush Back on Nov 16, 2009 11:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You're preaching to the choir here
I could do with basically zero INTL Walks
Twitter: @SouthSideCheat
SouthSideSox on Facebook
by The Cheat on Nov 16, 2009 11:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I wish they had a column for "infield in"
We might have to keep track of that next year.
EVERYBODY PICK US FOR 3RD OR 4TH SO I DINK WE DOIN POOTY GOO
Sox Machine
by Sox Machine on Nov 16, 2009 11:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd like to see the math on that once
just to email it to Ozzie.
2009 is just 2007 in 2008's clothing. - Trooper
by colintj on Nov 17, 2009 12:11 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Sound like a good idea
Can’t wait for the response → ass hole thi is the time to walk a playr you idiot
"ass hole thi is the same line up whit leftys you idiot"
by Brush Back on Nov 17, 2009 9:25 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
he did a shitty job this year
if you say otherwise you are fooling yourself. I thought he did a good job in 2008…. but he regressed as a manager this year.
Kenwo4life=ratings
by KenWo4LiFe on Nov 16, 2009 11:48 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
can one of these guys fire him already.
Kenwo4life=ratings
by KenWo4LiFe on Nov 16, 2009 11:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
bite ur tongue kw4l
he doesnt need to be shit canned, but maybe they can team up with aj and shave is head if they dont come out the gate strong next season
Hell Yesss
by Grinder Rule #42 on Nov 17, 2009 8:31 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
"Full disclosure"
Ain’t a bad thing.
"his ballerness could not be stoped which rose his era to 5.42 "
by Chiburb on Nov 17, 2009 8:15 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Cowley takes off the gloves
This kitten has claws
cst_sox Then some site called SoxNet.net – written in the basement of a trekkie turned blogger – jumps on the pile late with no sources.
Trekkie?
by 67WMAQ on Nov 17, 2009 8:39 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
"written in the basement of a trekkie turned blogger"
This from a REAL journalist who was suspended from the Chicago Chapter of the BBWA.
How is one credible but the other is not?
That was the second such incident for Cowley; after omitting Blue Jays players Carlos Delgado and Vernon Wells, two top-ten overall finishers, from his 2003 AL MVP ballot, the Chicago chapter suspended him from voting the next year. They accused Cowley of not voting seriously, saying he “embarrassed” the Chicago chapter of the BBWAA.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Cowley
"his ballerness could not be stoped which rose his era to 5.42 "
by Chiburb on Nov 17, 2009 9:08 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Trekkie turned blogger = bad. Battlestar Galactica fan turned blogger = credible?
by 67WMAQ on Nov 17, 2009 9:27 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
where do voltron fans fall on this scale
" Do you guys know people like you are the reason I wouldn’t come on for exstended periods of time. You rui the baseball blogging expieriance."
by trademaker on May 30, 2009 10:31 PM PDT
by U-God on Nov 17, 2009 9:38 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
How's the wrist?
"don tink about new jork. jus come in ready to wing de gay."
by winningugly on Nov 17, 2009 10:07 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
doing good
cast comes off and the wires come out in 14 days, not that i’ve had a giant countdown going or anything.
" Do you guys know people like you are the reason I wouldn’t come on for exstended periods of time. You rui the baseball blogging expieriance."
by trademaker on May 30, 2009 10:31 PM PDT
by U-God on Nov 17, 2009 10:18 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No bionic arms?
That’s a Star Wars reference, bye the bye, making me ineligible to write about baseball – in the eyes of some.
by 67WMAQ on Nov 17, 2009 10:28 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
sort of bionic
<img src=“”http://s43.photobucket.com/albums/e386/mprimia2/?action=view¤t=IMG_1302.jpg" target="_blank">
"/>
" Do you guys know people like you are the reason I wouldn’t come on for exstended periods of time. You rui the baseball blogging expieriance."
by trademaker on May 30, 2009 10:31 PM PDT
by U-God on Nov 17, 2009 10:40 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i felt the bass at the jay-z concert last week resonating in the wires
which was a very strange feeling
" Do you guys know people like you are the reason I wouldn’t come on for exstended periods of time. You rui the baseball blogging expieriance."
by trademaker on May 30, 2009 10:31 PM PDT
by U-God on Nov 17, 2009 10:50 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
cheez whiz, that is rad!
no long sleeves for you
His name is Rios and he dances on the sand
by Nordhagen on Nov 17, 2009 10:53 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
with the current cast
i can finally get my arm in a coat again, which is nice
" Do you guys know people like you are the reason I wouldn’t come on for exstended periods of time. You rui the baseball blogging expieriance."
by trademaker on May 30, 2009 10:31 PM PDT
by U-God on Nov 17, 2009 11:07 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
damn dude that is gross
saw the picture on FB
by 815Sox on Nov 17, 2009 10:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
the picture does it no justice
" Do you guys know people like you are the reason I wouldn’t come on for exstended periods of time. You rui the baseball blogging expieriance."
by trademaker on May 30, 2009 10:31 PM PDT
by U-God on Nov 18, 2009 10:38 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with him, though.
I was hoping Gonzalez wouldn’t have to do a story.
EVERYBODY PICK US FOR 3RD OR 4TH SO I DINK WE DOIN POOTY GOO
Sox Machine
by Sox Machine on Nov 17, 2009 10:31 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
he didn't have to.
as i pointed out elsewhere, it’s certainly odd that a guy from the same company as that publishes the blog saw the need to do a story on it.
by larry on Nov 17, 2009 10:35 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If it was assigned, he did.
EVERYBODY PICK US FOR 3RD OR 4TH SO I DINK WE DOIN POOTY GOO
Sox Machine
by Sox Machine on Nov 17, 2009 10:50 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
one would hope that someone at the tribune does not feel that they need to legitimize a blogger whose site they host by telling their beat writer to do a story about it.
by larry on Nov 17, 2009 10:53 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
One would hope.
But I fear that’s what happened. It can be rationalized, sadly. “Hey, it looks like we have a blogger scooping our own beat writer. Can you put in a call?”
EVERYBODY PICK US FOR 3RD OR 4TH SO I DINK WE DOIN POOTY GOO
Sox Machine
by Sox Machine on Nov 17, 2009 10:59 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
it's one thing to put in a call.
it’s another to write a story about an apparently baseless rumor after you made the call which confirmed it was baseless.
by larry on Nov 17, 2009 11:02 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Sox Machine has learned that SoxNet is offended
http://www.chicagonow.com/blogs/soxnet/2009/11/soxnet-responds-to-cowleys-attacks.html
EVERYBODY PICK US FOR 3RD OR 4TH SO I DINK WE DOIN POOTY GOO
Sox Machine
by Sox Machine on Nov 17, 2009 12:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That reply was too polite. Needed some snark.
And they call themselves bloggers…
"his ballerness could not be stoped which rose his era to 5.42 "
by Chiburb on Nov 17, 2009 1:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
fer real
wheres the big FU?
"I like my DH like I like my women. Fat , slow and full of power."
by soxshenanigans
by e-gus on Nov 17, 2009 3:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
FU
"don tink about new jork. jus come in ready to wing de gay."
by winningugly on Nov 17, 2009 4:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
What is a "tid-bit"?
A bit of a tid? What’s a “tid”?
"don tink about new jork. jus come in ready to wing de gay."
by winningugly on Nov 17, 2009 1:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Tell me he didn't piggyback on SSS on this one.
"don tink about new jork. jus come in ready to wing de gay."
by winningugly on Nov 17, 2009 10:07 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with gus. Ozzie was too by the book this season, particularly with bullpen. He insisted on MAKING Linebrink the 8th inning hold guy, despite Linebrink's performance, which indicated early enough that he was not up for the job.
That stubbornness drove me up the wall. And it probably has a lot to do with all the money they’re giving Linebrink…. but still… if you’re already hurting the team with his inflated salary, why hurt the team more by continuing to allow him to blow games? AND of ALL the people to repeatedly pitch in back-to-back games and NOT be conservative with….
I’m looking forward to next season because our starting pitchers are all capable of taking games late. Floyd and Danks have been conditioned enough…I’m ready for them to pitch into the 8th most outings. I’m sure at least Danks is ready for that too…
by homesickalien on Nov 17, 2009 10:28 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Maybe because Ozzie didn't know in which games Liney would suck?
"his ballerness could not be stoped which rose his era to 5.42 "
by Chiburb on Nov 17, 2009 10:44 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Of course not...but there is a point where you've given him enough chances.
by homesickalien on Nov 17, 2009 10:51 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
right.
I always considered Ozzie’s lack of structure an asset, especially when dealing with the pitchers. Before he had a knack of recognizing the pattern of developing situations(Linebrink sucks!) and going in a differenct direction on the fly. This season it felt like the roles were way too static and he didnt allow himself that flexibility dooming the Sox several times.
"I like my DH like I like my women. Fat , slow and full of power."
by soxshenanigans
by e-gus on Nov 17, 2009 11:00 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Funny thing is - during the WS he said he managed by instinct
in his first few years I agree, but he’s become more by the book as he’s aged as a manager.
"ass hole thi is the same line up whit leftys you idiot"
by Brush Back on Nov 17, 2009 11:13 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Another way of looking at it is
Ozzie went into a somewhat protection mode for a little while rotation wise. Me thinks he definitely handles the starting staff closer to the 05-06 form this year. Im happy he has started coming down on the ridiculous IBBs.
"Oh well back to work"
by Tdogg on Nov 17, 2009 10:29 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Agree, especially after a 163 + 4 season.
Though I could see him baby Freddy somewhat in ’10.
"his ballerness could not be stoped which rose his era to 5.42 "
by Chiburb on Nov 17, 2009 10:45 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I like that trend too.
I also like seeing the hit and runs on the rise as well. Especially with guys like Bacon up to bat.
"I like my DH like I like my women. Fat , slow and full of power."
by soxshenanigans
by e-gus on Nov 17, 2009 11:02 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
670 the score reporting:
Rumor = Konerko to Padres for Adrian Gonzalez
Green and Gold / Black and White
by OznCoop on Nov 17, 2009 10:59 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
ha!
they have to fill up some time I guess.
That would be so great Im not even going to consider it.
"I like my DH like I like my women. Fat , slow and full of power."
by soxshenanigans
by e-gus on Nov 17, 2009 11:01 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Dream - yes.
Hope – no.
"don tink about new jork. jus come in ready to wing de gay."
by winningugly on Nov 17, 2009 11:04 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
SouthSideSox is hearing that the Florida Marlins are trading for Paul Konerko.
The Marlins will be taking on his full salary and sending Dan Uggla and $4.3 million in cash to the White Sox. Waiting for SoxNet.net to confirm.
by larry on Nov 17, 2009 11:04 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I want the ROY. Screw that All-Star-choking loser Uggla.
"don tink about new jork. jus come in ready to wing de gay."
by winningugly on Nov 17, 2009 11:05 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
fastest 2b to 100 HR!
He’d fit in nicely.
So after trading Konerko twice, the Sox line will be:
Rios
AJ
Beckham
A Gonz
Q!
Thome
Uggla
Teehans
Alexei
I like it.
"I like my DH like I like my women. Fat , slow and full of power."
by soxshenanigans
by e-gus on Nov 17, 2009 11:08 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Teahan traded for Crawford
The world needs the Jedi now more than ever
by Carbiner on Nov 17, 2009 11:09 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Or hen, either way
The world needs the Jedi now more than ever
by Carbiner on Nov 17, 2009 11:09 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
eh
not as excting as Gonzalez
Green and Gold / Black and White
by OznCoop on Nov 17, 2009 11:07 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
And no 1B in sight!
The world needs the Jedi now more than ever
by Carbiner on Nov 17, 2009 11:10 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
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"his ballerness could not be stoped which rose his era to 5.42 "
by Chiburb on Nov 17, 2009 11:07 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
For WU.
"his ballerness could not be stoped which rose his era to 5.42 "
by Chiburb on Nov 17, 2009 11:07 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
TY.
We have one down here. Very good. Uggla still sucks. :)
"don tink about new jork. jus come in ready to wing de gay."
by winningugly on Nov 17, 2009 11:53 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Greinke succeding due to Yankee backlash
Sabathia, Yankees: As strong a candidate as is Greinke, Sabathia is no less worthy of his second Cy Young Award. Interestingly, he pretty much Xeroxed the ledger that earned him the first with Cleveland in 2007, when he had a 19-7 record and 3.21 ERA. He could suffer some backlash for the Yankees’ power, financial and otherwise. But you can’t ignore the fact he went 11-2 after the Bombers moved into first place in the AL East in mid-July.
The world needs the Jedi now more than ever
by Carbiner on Nov 17, 2009 11:08 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
succeeding*
The world needs the Jedi now more than ever
by Carbiner on Nov 17, 2009 11:08 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Sabathia is less worthy. Grienke is a stronger candidate. 2007 stats don't get you a 2009 Cy Young.
WTF? If a Yankee doesn’t get undeserved bonus points for pitching in New York, we’re calling that a backlash?
turd!
by Mitch. on Nov 17, 2009 12:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
What, Cashman can't blog his feelings?
I assume he wrote that, though hard to tell without a linky-link.
"his ballerness could not be stoped which rose his era to 5.42 "
by Chiburb on Nov 17, 2009 1:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm glad we seem to be successful against Cy Grienke
Now if only we can learn to hit fresh-from-AAA pitchers…
Best game I ever attended was the 163rd game last year.
by NorthSidePaulie on Nov 17, 2009 6:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
IBB's are tough
you’re up 3-2. IBB to load the bases. give up 10 runs, lose 12-3. still may have been the right call. kind of like SBs and sacs. all depends.
by Hatchetm on Nov 17, 2009 8:48 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
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