White Sox Show Their Hand With Teahen Trade
Two days ago, as the Yankees marched on to yet another purchased World Series title, the White Sox appeared like they could take any number of routes to fill out their '10 lineup. I had planned on writing an SSS Official Off-Season Plan as I have in the past -- quick synopsis: upgrade IF defense by negotiating with the devil. Buy Adrian Beltre, shift the left side of the infield one space right. Find a cheap scrapheap corner outfielder. I was thinking Xavier Nady (also a Boras client) and re-up with Jim Thome -- but Kenny Williams had other ideas, wasting no time in reshaping the '10 roster.
Jettisoned (for sure): Jermaine Dye, Josh Fields, Chris Getz; (maybe): Scott Podsednik (I'm never going to write off his return)
Returning: Mark Kotsay
Newcomer: Mark Teahen
We basically knew all those moves Thursday morning, but it still wasn't apparent how the Sox would use Teahen. My own thought was that it would mean an end to our years of having a lumbering, full-time DH on the roster. In that scenario, Teahen would have played 3B/OF and Pods probably would have been back as well, rotating with any number of players through the DH spot. But Kenny erased that notion by naming Teahen the White Sox 3rd baseman of the immediate future.
What does it all mean for the '10 roster?
The moves leave the Sox with two obvious holes at Designated Hitter and a corner outfield spot. DH is unlikely to be filled anytime soon, as the Sox don't have much to spend and the bottom has fallen out of the defensively-challenged hitter market in recent years. It's likely that the Sox will go bargain hunting as the calendar turns to February, with Williams not ruling out bringing back Jim Thome or even Dye.
"I don't think you can rule it out because it's a long offseason," said Williams, adding he might not fill the designated hitter role until the latter part of the winter. "We just got started. Everyone knows I think the world of this guy."
The remaining corner outfield spot is a bit trickier. The Sox stand with about $90M committed to their players making above the league minimum (arbitration figures estimated), and an operating budget that figures to come in under $100M. It's unlikely that they can bring in adequate talent at those two premium offensive positions on the open market for less than $10M. This means a trade, of course, is on the horizon; and Bobby Jenks seems like the most likely to leave.
Phil Rogers seems eager to remove Paul Konerko's $12M contract, though he never provides a team willing to take on that contract, or how the Sox will replace his production.
No, I suspect Jenks-for-an-outfielder will be the rumor of the off-season; and it's already started courtesy Joe Cowley with a Jenks and Jordan Danks for Carl Crawford postulation on 670 the score. We'll have plenty of time to discuss these rumors over the winter.
For now, let's take a look at what it means for the Sox as they stand currently:
Beckham moves to 2nd -- In my unpublished off-season plan, I wanted to move Beckham off third not because I didn't think he could play there, but because I thought it was the best way to upgrade both offense and defense at the same time. I don't particularly care which infield spot he gets moved to. Alexei Ramirez committed a number of errors and short, yes; and he was a bit of an adventure turning the double play. But he was solid, and overall a reliable glove in the field.
I learned after the 2000 season not to get upset at an adequate shortstop who draws the ire of radio call-in guests with some high profile errors. Every shortstop makes errors, and most of them are of the 'bad' variety. Alexei is no different than any host of major league shortstops. He was the definition of average defensively. He was merely frustrating because he showed plus range and the ability to make some spectacular plays, but negated it by making the occasional annoyingly lackadaisical error, which he seemed to correct as the season wore on. (He was probably one of the top 5 defensive SS in baseball in the second half). I'll take my chances that he's more the second-half Alexei than first-half.
So Beckham moves to second base, a position that would seem to be more natural for him, and his predicted destination since being drafted in '08. He should have no trouble making the transition, as we saw him make considerable progress at 3B over the course of the season. My only complaint is that if the Sox had this in mind, there was no reason not to be playing Beckham at 2B over the last month of the season when the Sox were clearly out of the AL central race.
As for Teahen at third, um, yeah, that's another story. He's bad defensively. Not quite Josh Fields bad, but close enough that he shouldn't be considered a first option, and isn't the type of player who pushes a franchise player like Beckham to another position.
Offensively, Teahen is living off his reputation from a breakout '06 season when he put up and ISO of .225. In the three years since, he's averaged an ISO of about .135. He has the glove of Mark Reynolds, and the bat of Pedro Feliz.
Watching Teahen bat against the White Sox in recent years, you might get the impression that he was a speedy baserunner, as I seem to recall two separate inside-the-park homeruns. And while he did use Kauffman's expansive outfield to pile up 23 triples in his first 4 seasons, he managed only 1 last season. Diving into the Bill James Handbook, Teahen is listed as having a negative impact on the bases last year due to his ability to run into key outs. James also has a measure called Manufactured Runs Created, a measure of the little things (bunts, steals, sac flies, etc.) impact on creating runs. In this category, Teahen ranked among the Royals top 3 at 16 MRC. But the Royals ranked last in the league, and Teahen appears to be marginally above average here. (A full data set was not provided, and I'm not going to draw any conclusions based on a year of data.)
Teahen's only under contract for a year, and, thanks to the $2M from the Royals, should only cost the Sox about $2.5M. So maybe he's just a stop-gap, future utility guy, and the Sox have supreme confidence in their 3B depth (Retherford, Viciedo, Morel).
So what did the Sox gain by adding Teahen? Not much in my view. They didn't give up anything of value. Chris Getz is the best player they gave up, and he might be able to post some league average production at his peak (if he can stay healthy).
Overall, it was the right idea -- getting a 3B to move Beckham to a more natural position -- but Teahen is the wrong player to take the Sox to the next level.
112 comments
|
2 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
One of the first things I posted to SBN, if not the first thing, was this NYT Mag article on Teahen
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/24/magazine/24BASEBALL.html?_r=1
It doesn’t paint Teahen in a great light, refusing to accept batting tips from George Brett.
Twitter: @SouthSideCheat
SouthSideSox on Facebook
Sounds like he ignores advice from hitting coaches.
So we’ve got that going for us.
piss up a rope fuckstick ...................by hoodlight
by mick10 on Nov 7, 2009 7:10 AM CST up reply actions 4 recs
+1
"wordy and overly verbose."
by larry on Jul 3, 2009 3:43 PM CDT
by Black Sox Baseball on Nov 7, 2009 7:28 PM CST up reply actions
Teahen plays like a midget in a man's body.
piss up a rope fuckstick ...................by hoodlight
Well, Hoodie should be happy now.
"his ballerness could not be stoped which rose his era to 5.42 "
by Chiburb on Nov 7, 2009 6:20 AM CST via mobile reply actions
the fact that Kenny is willing to "shuffle things up"
and try something new (when something is proven to be wrong) is something I admire about him.
I cant figure out why that approach doesnt translate to the hitting coach, though…
His name is Rios and he dances on the sand
shuffling is good..
now someone send kenny over to the bears and have him teach lovie smith that ramming your head against the wall a 2nd time when it didn’t break the wall the first time probably won’t work :) ..nor the 3rd time..4th time..
ok, let's trade jenks and whatever it takes from the farm to get Crawford.
If we can’t extend him, at least we get the 2 picks when he signs with the yankees. Hudson and Danks should do it. Bring up Flowers and CJ to fill out the roster. Flowers can backup AJ and share DH. CJ is the emergency catcher and blowout reliever.
I’ll be working on 2011 later today.
piss up a rope fuckstick ...................by hoodlight
if the white sox want to get crawford and use jenks to do it
they’d need to get a third team involved who would either be the one taking jenks or sending money to tampa. the rays simply can’t take on a salary like jenks’ will be next season or the season after that.
who knows.
ask the rays what they want. it’s not like there are teams clamoring for jenks. if i were the rays, i’d just tell the white sox forget jenks, give us hudson and flowers.
Flowers would seem like a good fit for TB
and a part of a reasonable return. I doubt Jenks or even Hudson plus Flowers would satisfy the TB front office, though.
by Daniel Berlyn on Nov 7, 2009 10:33 AM CST up reply actions
ssshhhhhh, be quiet
i'm alex rios' last fan
by onlysoxfaninboston on Nov 7, 2009 11:01 AM CST up reply actions
you're actually suggesting that players who have value should be traded away instead of players like jenks and konerko?
you’re doing it wrong.
by larry on Nov 7, 2009 11:04 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
how many saves does thornton have?
i'm alex rios' last fan
by onlysoxfaninboston on Nov 7, 2009 11:28 AM CST up reply actions
I had thought Crawford was on deal for two years.
That changes things… I’m not sure why they would bring him in without a negotiating window.
by Daniel Berlyn on Nov 7, 2009 11:36 AM CST up reply actions
I vill be here all of ze veek.
"don tink about new jork. jus come in ready to wing de gay."
by winningugly on Nov 7, 2009 9:50 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
i assume they have some reason
to think teahen will be OK defensively at 3B. much as the logic seems sound, the UZR ratings are just so variable it makes me doubt them. according to UZR he was terrible two years, average another. curious so i looked at betancourt’s UZR at SS. he was average in 3-4 years for seattle and then atrocious for KC. makes me wonder who’s doing the charting for KC.
He's below average across the board according to the fielding bible
Twitter: @SouthSideCheat
SouthSideSox on Facebook
two notes
1. UZR should be averaged over a three year period to create a large enough sample size, don’t look at the outliers. so the variable nature of the number is too be expected. this means, that teahan isn’t quite -17 or -10 bad, more like, -7 or -6. (ignore the -23, only 19 games).
2. Betancourt’s value is entirely tied up in his defense. when his defense fell off a cliff, that’s when he became the worst player in the league. and, for Yuni, the lower number makes sense as he is declining defensively. mostly because, I think, he’s getting fat and lazy.
yeah, i've heard the mantra....
just haven’t fully bought in yet.
that you need three years of data.....
kind of like a tape measure that you have to take three results and average. useful to a degree but not entirely reassuring.
small sample sizes are not as good as large sample sizes.
i think i’ll defer to the guy who created the system when he says one of its shortcomings is that one year of data is unreliable.
right, its insufficient data
using one season of UZR data is like using one month of batting average. was the hitter hot? cold? lucky? you don’t know.
if you want to take a month long sample of someone’s UZR and say, ’he’s played good defense over this month’ that’s accurate. its not correct to say, ’he’s a good defender, based on this one month’ because that’s not how the metric is constructed.
so over the course of a year
is it the player or the metric that is unreliable?
neither, particularly.
I’m not sure that question has a useful answer. the unreliability is the utility of using the metric to predict future performance by being confident you have measured enough occurances. after one year of data, you don’t know if the player was on an extended defensive hot streak. much like you can’t say that a batter is the next ted williams after a good first month.
UZR over any period will tell you how well that person defended over that period. However, a UZR sample of less then three years is insufficient to confidently say anything about the player on a predictive basis.
I don't mind Teahen
And I don’t care for Fields or Getz….. so I assume this is an OK deal. This isn’t a championship move, however. To just give him the third base job is kind of disappointing.
Kenwo4life=ratings
When you got .50...
I am an abashed Crawford fan but would pass if we could not lock him up. Sure would fill the leadoffcornerOF posion…
"don tink about new jork. jus come in ready to wing de gay."
by winningugly on Nov 7, 2009 9:46 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
position
"don tink about new jork. jus come in ready to wing de gay."
by winningugly on Nov 7, 2009 9:48 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Very nice Cheat
I particularly like the paragraph on Alexei.
Man this move is can be defended if Teahen is in the OF. I wished they looked elsewhere.
I can live with it but again I don’t want to hear cries of poor.
I’m not worried about Beckham at 2nd. The Sox should be pretty good up the middle next year, besides AJ’s basestealing against woes.
My bad. What base runners? You have to get hits and walks hits for that!
"Oh well back to work"
1. Scott Podsednik LF
2. Tadahito Iguchi 2B
3. Carl Everett DH
4. Paul Konerko 1B
5. Jermaine Dye RF
6. Aaron Rowand CF
7. A.J. Pierzynski C
8. Joe Crede 3B
9. Juan Uribe SS
Why did we trade Lee? I am pissed. Who is this guy Podsednick. Carl Everett you’ve got to be kidding me. That AJ guy is a punk. I can’t believe this.
by BlakJakk on Nov 7, 2009 10:54 AM CST reply actions 3 recs
We rid ourselves of Mags for Jermaine Freaking Dye,WTF!
does Kenny truly believe that a team with a make shift lineup like this will win more than 80+ games?
Green and Gold / Black and White
neither one of those works with me
at the time, I wrote that the Sox would come out on top in the Pods deal by using money to pick up pitching…
and I said JD would outproduce Maggs in ’05
Twitter: @SouthSideCheat
SouthSideSox on Facebook
at the time, i said these moves would position the white sox to win the world series over the astros in a sweep.
Im still not happy
We have argualby the best starting pitching in baseball, but that won’t last forever, so why are we wasting another year on stopgaps at 3B? Its not like there are any FA’s or any prospects that will be available after next year…
FIRE GREG WALKER NOW!!!!!!!!!
Too gummy.
"I call Dotel, got his ass kick. I call Linebrink, got his ass kick. Everybody I call is the wrong guy. I guess it's my fault!"
Helluva Ty Cobb grip.
Cuts down on the power, though.
"don tink about new jork. jus come in ready to wing de gay."
by winningugly on Nov 7, 2009 2:29 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
He can see into my soul.
Since I don’t have one, heks good.
"don tink about new jork. jus come in ready to wing de gay."
by winningugly on Nov 7, 2009 2:31 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
OT: colin, Pete, et. al.
Boiler Up! At The Big House! Bwahahahaha!
"don tink about new jork. jus come in ready to wing de gay."
by winningugly on Nov 7, 2009 2:27 PM CST via mobile reply actions
Got a good chuckle out of NU beating Iowa
I’m a college football mercenary, owing to Marquette’s lack of a football team and all.
The Cats are a sentimental favorite. Pat Fitzgerald is a good guy, and a Sox fan.
Plus, the upset happened in the presence of Ashton Kutcher and Demi Moore.
lol the teahen era!
I’m ready. Hopefully it goes better than the david wells era…. or the darin erstad era…. or the chris sabo era.
Kenwo4life=ratings
herb perry era
now that was golden
"...but the devil lives inside this kid, I swear it. It rises out of him in a mist, this baby-faced defiant wrathful version of Pat Kane, escapes his bodily confines to perform satanic miracles all over the offensive zone. The only thing more fearsome than that assist was the keep-in preceding it. The only thing more unholy than his face is his black magic." GMH
Or the John Kruk
or Ken Griffey Jr…
Best game I ever attended was the 163rd game last year.
by NorthSidePaulie on Nov 7, 2009 7:20 PM CST up reply actions
for those planning to watch the AFL rising stars game but want to also plan their evenings
danks will be in the starting lineup for the 7:15 start and is batting second.
How is it not a 7:11 start?
Revenue opportunity lost.
"don tink about new jork. jus come in ready to wing de gay."
by winningugly on Nov 7, 2009 4:50 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
It's free and live on iPhone MLBatbat.
Sweet.
"his ballerness could not be stoped which rose his era to 5.42 "
by Chiburb on Nov 7, 2009 7:09 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Not sure it was worth the wait...
"ass hole thi is the same line up whit leftys you idiot"
Christina K. at Baseball Prospectus
sorta kinda likes the Teahen deal seeing as though he’ll be at third base. I kinda sorta agree. Now let’s get Vladdy.
just to reiterate my position on vlad.
id rather have a 24 year old (human years) dog that has advanced parkinson’s batting for our team than vlad.
so…
Blasting one into a Christmas ham like her is so passe. - RWShow
by BoeJouma on Nov 7, 2009 11:43 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
thank you very much!
id rather have a 24 year old (human years) dog that has advanced parkinson’s batting for our team than vlad.
-BoeJouma
I think vlad would be an ok pickup
if he came on a one year deal for 5-8 million. If he was healthy he could put up huge numbers…. he looked pretty good in the playoffs this year… and I could make fun of how goofy he wears his pants. :)
Kenwo4life=ratings
Vlad can barely walk anymore, let alone run.
Even at DH, he can’t make up for his wild swings anymore. No thanks.
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
by BobbySouthSide on Nov 8, 2009 8:44 PM CST up reply actions
remind me to never go to a casino with you
being ok with putting 5-8 million on a walking toothpick like him, especially with our payroll issues? yikes.
Blasting one into a Christmas ham like her is so passe. - RWShow
Retarded
The Mets played some uninspired, ragged, sloppy baseball last year, and that has nothing to do with the many injuries they had.
The world needs the Jedi now more than ever
I don't see how anyone can think this a good trade...it's just bad
1) The Sox 2B production didn’t need to be addressed nearly as badly as OF and DH. Right now you are looking at Danks and Kostay filling those slots. That’s awful. The Sox traded talent and $3M dollars to address a something that was a relatively minor hole.
2) Teahen is a bad player at 3B and RF. He has a weak bat, horrible OBP and bad D. I didn’t get the love Gez got from Sox fans (scrappy, I guess), but I think Getz at his salary is a better player.
3) Better 3B than Teahen are likely to be available for $3M.
The Sox season is going to hinge on getting surprise hitting from Rios, Q, and Teahen. It could happen, but retaining Walker doesn’t help me be optimistic. If you are going hang your season on guys busting out, at least bring in Jaramillo.
I can’t believe they are actually going to put Teahen’s atrocious glove at 3B. Sheesh.
1) The Sox 2B production didn’t need to be addressed nearly as badly as OF and DH.
This is true, but I’m sure Kenny will address both spots through FA or trades. He did say he didn’t have much money to work with though, but we’ll see.
he never says he has money to work with
or the one year he did (year we got fleeced by Hunter) he says the contracts are outrageous. I wouldn’t read too much into what he says, instead I would look at the contracts they have on the books for 2010. Unless a Jenks or Konerko is moved, the payroll is about at its limit. Therefore, I wouldn’t look for too much else this offseason, maybe a cheap signing for a corner OF spot and an incentive type deal for a DH. KW did his shopping during the 09 season.
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
by BobbySouthSide on Nov 8, 2009 8:43 PM CST up reply actions
They have to sign an OF
If KW has gotten into a situation where either DH or the OF slot will be filled by current internal options, he’s done an awful job.
by hitlesswonder on Nov 8, 2009 8:46 PM CST up reply actions
There's a lot of free agents out there in terms of OF/DH types that you can sign to a 1-2 year deal.
I’m hoping he does something bigger though than settle for those, it will recquire trading salary though (Jenks).
Totally agree
its KW. He always does this. The Sox were going to be quiet around the trade deadline and ended up with Peavy. We have a window of opportunity with this pitching lineup, the organization will spend.
Keep in mind we are also a very fast growing fanbase, however nobody has any damn money to spend nowadays.
Yeah, I probably framed that poorly
I would rather the Sox put the $3M toward acquiring an OFrather than spend it+Getz on Teahen.
I do expect the Sox sign an OF before the offseason is over, but if the budget is really limited, it’s gonna end being someone like Pods. I’m not sure they sign a DH. I don’t think they will. I suspect the new OF and Kotsay will split the bulk of the DH at-bats.
by hitlesswonder on Nov 8, 2009 8:43 PM CST up reply actions
The Sox 2B needed to be addressed
in that it wasn’t the type of situation that you should have counted on if you intended to compete into October. But unfortunately, all they’ve done is made the 3B situation on that you shouldn’t count on if you’re looking to compete.
Twitter: @SouthSideCheat
SouthSideSox on Facebook
just starting the AFL game, to see mr danks.
is it worth it?
Blasting one into a Christmas ham like her is so passe. - RWShow
i mean, im really only paying attention to danks
so the ff button is less than a centimeter from my thumb
Blasting one into a Christmas ham like her is so passe. - RWShow
i mean, i know theyre brothers
but danks and danks look too much alike.
Blasting one into a Christmas ham like her is so passe. - RWShow
this color commentator is absolutely riveting
Blasting one into a Christmas ham like her is so passe. - RWShow
by BoeJouma on Nov 8, 2009 9:31 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
oh hai brandon allen!!
oh, ok i see youre busy hitting homers and whatnot, sorry
Blasting one into a Christmas ham like her is so passe. - RWShow
dont get me fucking started...
ok Ill bite, we need a DH, preferably left handed, some power, speed would be sweet, say he was young, cheap, under control for 6 years. And he was free! Would you take him?
Oh yeah, we already had him, his name was Brandon Allen!
…and we traded him.
id rather have a 24 year old (human years) dog that has advanced parkinson’s batting for our team than vlad.
-BoeJouma
Which is why AZ is talking trade w/TOR for Overbay...
Mr. Allen doesn’t seem to be ready to hit in the NL or AFL. Not saying he’ll never be ready, but I doubt he’d fill the bill for the Sox either in ’10.
"his ballerness could not be stoped which rose his era to 5.42 "
Sure he would - we need someone to counter Teahen's Ks
"ass hole thi is the same line up whit leftys you idiot"
I hate People
Nick Swisher, a fellow member of Oakland’s 2002 draft class, declared, ‘’If you don’t like T, you don’t like people.’’
Hell Yesss
by Grinder Rule #42 on Nov 9, 2009 5:14 PM CST reply actions
That confirms it now... this trade sucks - FNS
"ass hole thi is the same line up whit leftys you idiot"
the quote was out of context. he wasn't talking about a player or anything, swish just used to be a muppet on sesame street.
These events have me frightened and on the verge of evacuating my bowels.
by thatshortkid on Nov 10, 2009 11:30 AM CST up reply actions

by 





























