More Thoughts On The DH
by colintj on Dec 28, 2009 7:00 AM CST
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PrintNot that larry needs the ego boost, but I'm going to quote him from the comments of a previous post:
in a division where each of the last two seasons there has been a one game playoff to determine the champion
it’s a questionable strategy to wait.
It's especially true when it comes to the market for possible DHs. By definition the Sox' front office isn't going to compete for an elite hitter (say a ~ 4 WAR DH that could hit .300/.400/.500) in the free agent market. Highly desirable assets go to teams for whom the marginal cost is the least and it's a long way off until the White Sox are in Yankees/Red Sox/Angels territory. Fortunately, this isn't much of a hindrance, thanks to usually limited demand: there are only 14 DH teams. So far, Hideki Matsui has taken a 1 year, $6.5MM deal going to the Angels and Nick Johnson got 1 year from the Yankees for $5.5MM. Adding a DH is going to cost $3-4MM per WAR. The prospective White Sox DH is one player, in sum considerably cheaper than the myriad additions to the bench* many of whom made Jayson Nix' skill set redundant.
Meanwhile, adding that 2 wins only matters if you can get its full extent. Going back to larry's quote, if you're adding a DH of the like available this free agent season, a half season of that kind of production is 1 win, easily canceled out by bad luck. The fact is that the Twins are primed to compete with the White Sox for the AL Central in 2010 and Kenny may have less than a coin flip's chance without a DH. Since Johann Santana left, the Twins have averaged 17 wins above replacement from their rotation and relievers combined. Here's what I've gathered so far from the Fans, CHONE, ZiPS. The former is straight from fangraphs, using the fans' own impressions for defense ratings (and it includes catcher defense) and for the latter two, I used a defensive projection using a 5/4/3 3 year weighted UZR regressed with Tango's Fan Scouting Report and added these for catcher defense projections. Averaging the Fans, CHONE and ZiPS, the Twins' position players are expected to garner 23 wins above replacement. That plus their 3 year average for pitching gets them to 88 wins (recall that 48 wins in a season is replacement level). Anything better and we're talking 90 wins for those heathens.
The Sox themselves average 17-18 wins by the Fans/CHONE/ZiPS average. That means they've got to get an entirely doable 23 wins from the pitchers to get to 88. They've averaged 22.5 wins above replacement since '05. Any edge to gain has to be in the realm of an actually average player or better to make a dent in those playoff odds. I haven't yet done anything more than eyeball CHONE and ZiPS for the rest of the ALC, but it looks like they're out of the sweet spot at this point. It's White Sox vs. Twins barring something unforeseen and the wild card isn't going to save either side.
It's this that makes me wonder about making the big splash with a Flowers and/or Hudson package. If Kenny could get a real impact player (better than average) in his prime (i.e. guaranteeing the production more or less), sealing off the Twins in '10 and finding a stopgap catcher for '11 and beyond would start to make sense. But the thing is, once you're in the playoffs, you're only ever going to have about a 13 percent chance to win it all. Going to the playoffs repeatedly is the ultimate fiscal aim for a team in contention. So how good does Kenny think Flowers and Hudson are going to be?
*namely Kotsay, Vizquel and Jones, but it's not like Pierre or Teahen are way more talented as far as the projection systems are concerned
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Thought I heard a Boatman...
There's Your Zagnut!!!
by DrEmilioLizardo on Dec 28, 2009 2:37 PM CST up reply actions
Was that you or your sister?
(and yes, it took me 23 hours to come up with that one).
by The Actual El Guapo on Dec 29, 2009 1:09 PM CST up reply actions
Excuse me,
but I believe you meant “vulva”.
"don tink about new jork. jus come in ready to wing de gay."
Dolores!!!!!!!
There's Your Zagnut!!!
by DrEmilioLizardo on Dec 29, 2009 11:30 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
What's the consensus on here?
Can Flowers be a full-time starting catcher next year, and what’s the ceiling on Hudson? I thought I’d read before Hudson was at best a #4/#5 starter, but that seems a bit low for some reason to me.
At this point, I'll stick with my original strategy at the beginning of the offseason.
Sign Vladdy. I know he’s not left-handed, iffy in the field and certainly no sure bet, but makes the most sense right now. I wouldn’t trade Flowers.
Kenny is in no hurry right now
And I think that’s not a bad strategy. Sure we don’t have a good DH if we go into the season with the roster we have now, but it wouldn’t be the end of the world. KW likes to deal during the season and there always seems to be a team or two that start with high expectations but is pretty much done by the end of May/June (and hopefully that is not us). The current roster would need to keep us afloat until then. That would be one scenario, like it or not.
It would be hard for me to like dealing of Flowers and/or Hudson for someone. Haven’t we raided our farm system enough already for this year? Soon we will have to go and fill those rosters up in Birmingham. That place is probably stacked with girls suffering from post-savior syndrome, so that could be good. We could fill that void. But I assume we would suck in pro baseball.
Everything we have been hearing about Hudson from Larry’s reports, etc. is that scouts are still skeptical about him and say that he overachieved or reached his ceiling. I wouldn’t mind waiting to find out if that really is true and how well he does over the longer period of time in the major leagues.
Don’t trade Flowers.
Lupe, release the balloons!
Lots, lots of potential DH's out there. Not sure if anyone's head-and-shoulders above the rest.
However, if KW’s got a preference he best get moving.
"don tink about new jork. jus come in ready to wing de gay."
KW won't sign a DH until March
That’s what I’m betting. There will still be good leftovers with Free Agents. Flowers, Kotsay and Jones will have played enough games in Spring Training for KW to get a read if any of them or a combination of them can DH.
We won it all in 2005 with Carl Everett as our DH. He batted .251 with a .311 OBP 23HR and 87RBI. I have faith Jones or Flowers could match or beat that.
No offense...
…but this kind of argument drives me crazy. For example, for years after the Ravens won the super bowl with Trent Dilfer as their QB teams thought they could win a super bowl with a crappy QB. Just because you did it once, doesn’t mean it’s likely to happen again. And with the talent in the AL next year being what it is, I don’t think we can cut it with an Everett-type as our DH.
Sure we can
All we need to happen is our starting rotation, bullpen, and defense up the middle to be as simultaneously amazing as it was in 2005
Barely relevant story...
I dreamed last night that Everett died and I was reading the memorial here on the site. I woke up confused and slightly aroused, is this normal?
Reporter: I was wondering if at any point in my lifetime the Cubs weren't going to be run by a guy who didn't immediately remind me of failure, confusion, or imminent death
Man I REALLY dont want to trade Flowers and Hudson
Okay I really don’t want to trade Flowers. I trust the team a whole lot more to find quality starting pitching then another catcher. More thoughts on DH haven’t really changed. I prefer them take care of this likely issue now. I suspect they take of it later. Ozzie probably gets a little rope to try and prove his point.
Part f me also thinks KW is watching the Twins closely right now. a signing by them could be enough to push him off the fence and tell Ozzie to deal with it.
"Oh well back to work"
Geez
My thoughts……… I suspect they take care……. Part of
I just need to talk and let my computer type. (lol)
"Oh well back to work"
Can I get you another cocktail, Mr. Fields?
There's Your Zagnut!!!
by DrEmilioLizardo on Dec 28, 2009 10:04 AM CST up reply actions
In other words...
Kenny will sign a DH by Sox Fest, and if he doesn’t he’ll find another 12 year old kid to take his place during the Management Q and A panel.
Pre-teens need to stay out of White Sox business.
EVERYBODY PICK US FOR 3RD OR 4TH SO I DINK WE DOIN POOTY GOO
Sox Machine
where in the fuck is cheat?
wrapped and sealed with masking tape moistened with sweat experience existence of ignorance
by onlysoxfaninboston on Dec 28, 2009 10:24 AM CST reply actions
Is he taking an extended leave of absence?
(This could be juicy.)
"don tink about new jork. jus come in ready to wing de gay."
by winningugly on Dec 28, 2009 10:28 AM CST up reply actions
My name is Phil Rogers
And I do NOT approve this message.
Reporter: I was wondering if at any point in my lifetime the Cubs weren't going to be run by a guy who didn't immediately remind me of failure, confusion, or imminent death
Leaving the DH spot open for a platoon rotation is a plus
The open DH spot allows the Sox to do the following.
1- preserve our world series vets, like Pauly and AJ, and younger players that are injury prone, like Carlos Quentin. Platoon them at DH. Keep this team healthy through september to compete for game 163, lately an AL Central tendency.
2- develop the future franchise prospects, imagine both Tyler Flowers and AJ in the same lineup, Tyler getting defense experience, AJ getting rested while still having his bat at DH
3- Leave open the DH spot for anyone whose bat or defense we still want in the lineup while we want to bring in new talent. Depending on their play in the minors, Jordan Danks, Dayan Viciedo, Jared Mitchell, all valuable prospects.
4 – We dont want to get stuck with a DH guy, like Thome, who is not movable and versatile and who can’t help us in interleague play.
Ron Rivera Return
by Oso Monstar of Midway on Dec 28, 2009 11:26 AM CST reply actions
1. having someone who can actually hit the ball does not prevent others from occasionally playing DH.
2. AJ is a below average hitter. if he is not catching, he should not be a designated hitter.
3. none of the players you mentioned should play in the major leagues this year before september (if then).
4. building an AL team around nine interleague games is stupid. and, yes, a designated hitter isn’t versatile. kind of like how the name suggests. his job is to hit the snot out of the ball.
it boggles my mind that people think the “versatility” of rotating a bunch of below average hitters through the DH spot is a good thing. the white sox would essentially be giving up on a lineup spot by regularly putting an andruw jones or mark kotsay or, fucking hell, omar vizquel into that spot.
by larry on Dec 28, 2009 11:40 AM CST up reply actions 4 recs
Understood -
so who of the Damon/Cust/Vladdy/Delgado/Thome/Branyon ilk would you prefer to drop some coin on? Or are you advocating trading Hudson/Flowers for a DH “stalwart” (I’m struggling to come up with a name here that would be a worthwhile return and who we’d actually be able to pry away)?
i.e., who would you like to get to hit the snot out of the ball?
"don tink about new jork. jus come in ready to wing de gay."
by winningugly on Dec 28, 2009 11:52 AM CST up reply actions
Thanks to the Angels spending only 6 million on Matsui...
There’s no need to drop serious coin on anyone.
i don't really care at this point. simply finding someone who will provide positive production from the DH spot (or anywhere else on the diamond, for that matter) would be good. this team as currently constructed isn't good enough to win the central.
which is a shame considering the pitching.
by larry on Dec 28, 2009 12:43 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
"I’m struggling to come up with a name here that would be a worthwhile return and who we’d actually be able to pry away"
Yeah, I deliberately left that one blank. I’m sure Kenny’s got his finger on the pulse on the trade market.
2009 is just 2007 in 2008's clothing. - Trooper
Larry I am with you 100 percent. I rec'd this and the comment below.
we are on the same wavelength. Worlds are colliding. Watch out now SSS universe!
Kenwo4life=ratings
I see, because if Q were DH'ing...
…he wouldn’t have slammed his bat and broken his wrist or aggravated his plantar fascitis swinging or running the bases.
just because he hit his hand on the bat once, doesnt mean he's likely to do it again
Although maybe he is. Idaknow.
His name is Rios and he dances on the sand
My point was just that...
…the injuries Q had either occurred while batting or were aggravated by it, so DH-ing him is not really a great way to keep him healthy (or justify rotating the DH).
Q is injury prone
the less time he has to be on the field diving for balls the better. Personally i wouldn’t mind trading him.
Kenwo4life=ratings
For what it's worth, he's also appears to be kind of a headcase.
I’m not sure he needs more time sitting on the bench fuming over his outs. Good luck quantifying that.
The math checks out.
Iron. Clad.
Reporter: I was wondering if at any point in my lifetime the Cubs weren't going to be run by a guy who didn't immediately remind me of failure, confusion, or imminent death
Past Performance is no indicator of future results!!!!
Why the F**** are we discussing a Game 163? Cause the last two years had them? Co-in-ci-dence. Pure and simple. If I flip a coin that comes up heads 9 times in a row, the odds of it being heads is….? anyone? 50/50!
There's Your Zagnut!!!
by DrEmilioLizardo on Dec 28, 2009 11:53 AM CST reply actions
heads again on the 10th flip... fixed.
There's Your Zagnut!!!
by DrEmilioLizardo on Dec 28, 2009 11:55 AM CST up reply actions
I believe the discussion is focusing on the concept
that quite often one single game matters in determining whether you keep playing or go home in October.
"don tink about new jork. jus come in ready to wing de gay."
by winningugly on Dec 28, 2009 11:55 AM CST up reply actions
Current odds:
Sox 2-1 Twinks 2-1 Tigers 5-1 Indians 8-1 Royals 25-1. Vladdy is the guy with the highest ceiling among those available to make a real difference. Likely? I don’t know. He’s the guy to get.
This.
Vladdy seems like the best option available on the FA market right now.
"Let’s plunge ourselves into the roar of time, the whirl of accident; may pain and pleasure, success and failure, shift as they will- it’s only action that can make a man" Faust, Goethe
The teams lack of athleticism has been an issue for years
not being able to score from second, runners stranded on the bases, guys getting gunned down at home. A sluggish slugger that clogs the bases doesn’t help us score on a single from second, or on a sacrifice fly. The Sox situational hitting needs to be helped by strong base running. Too often we see teams like the Twins, Angels, Tampa, beat the Sox this way. Piranas biting away at us while our hitters are stuck in this mentality that they have to hit home runs to win. Swinging away on bat pitches. The rotating DH spot gives this team more flexibility and versatility and Ozzie should use it however he sees fit to win, regardless of what the traditional DH fantasy role is for.
Ron Rivera Return
by Oso Monstar of Midway on Dec 28, 2009 12:12 PM CST reply actions
All the more reason to sign a guy like Vladdy.
We need production…any way you can fuckin’ get it. He’s my best bet to do it. So we’ll have to wince at the pitches he swings at five times a game; he’s still better than anything else out there OR that we have now.
I agree with you.
And it is a confusing sensation.
by The Actual El Guapo on Dec 28, 2009 1:33 PM CST up reply actions
The Twins have had and will continue to have the best offense in the AL Central.
The Sox are second, and yet it isn’t really all that close. Of course, given the all-of-a-sudden shift where teams are afraid to get guys who can hit, it will be enough to compete for the division giving the pitching.
The drop in runs scored throughout the MLB next year may be astronomical.
by Daniel Berlyn on Jan 1, 2010 4:47 PM CST up reply actions
Head. Going. To. Explode.
Which of the candidates to rotate into the DH position do you think provides speed or good baserunning? Andruw Jones? Kotsay? Vizquel? Flowers?
Oh, Lord.
Bet you love the Pierre signing, what with his bunty ways and all. Are you the brother JRE never had? Singles being preferred over home runs just because it creates more “activity”?
"don tink about new jork. jus come in ready to wing de gay."
by winningugly on Dec 28, 2009 12:17 PM CST up reply actions
You had me at "clogs the bases."
by The Actual El Guapo on Dec 28, 2009 12:20 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
I was won over at "swinging away at bat pitches."
The 2009 White Sox....like a 40 degree day.
by Ozzie Montana on Dec 28, 2009 12:34 PM CST up reply actions
The Dark Knight will be our 5th Starter? Awesome!
There's Your Zagnut!!!
by DrEmilioLizardo on Dec 28, 2009 1:02 PM CST up reply actions
always bet on black
bird law in this country is not ruled by reason
by soxshenanigans on Dec 28, 2009 2:33 PM CST up reply actions
good guys wear black...
Right, Mr. Himmler?
There's Your Zagnut!!!
by DrEmilioLizardo on Dec 28, 2009 2:55 PM CST up reply actions
I love how our fans have been brainwashed by this whole athleticism thing.
It sure worked well in 2007, right? Jerry Owens and Danny Richar were athletic and could always score from second on a single. Darin Erstad could bunt real good, too.
72 wins.
Chicago White Sox Examiner — I wish I could cuss right now.
by UribeAuction on Dec 28, 2009 3:20 PM CST up reply actions
DH spot versatility
Flowers is faster than AJ
Vizuel is faster than just about any DH guy you put in there, even at 42
Kotsay is a good situational hitter, runners in scoring position, he’s good for getting fast guys in
and Jones can at least play outfield and has won several golden gloves.
Combine all these and you have versatile DH spot
Ron Rivera Return
by Oso Monstar of Midway on Dec 28, 2009 12:23 PM CST reply actions
there's being optimistic
And then there’s thinking like a Cub fan. You, my friend, are thinking like a Cub fan.
by ExileDC on Dec 28, 2009 12:33 PM CST via mobile up reply actions 5 recs
There's really no better way to describe that kind of thought process....
Rec’d
Please find Jay Cutler some help...
This Kotjozkuewers creature intrigues me.
Is he also a pokemon?
by The Actual El Guapo on Dec 28, 2009 12:34 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
Speed never... something... what was it?
Wins? Hell I can’t remember.
Reporter: I was wondering if at any point in my lifetime the Cubs weren't going to be run by a guy who didn't immediately remind me of failure, confusion, or imminent death
Speed Kills.
Just ask anyone who at terminal velocity without a parachute. Of course, technically, it is not the speed, it is the sudden deaccelleration that is the real b*tch.
There's Your Zagnut!!!
by DrEmilioLizardo on Dec 28, 2009 1:05 PM CST up reply actions
versatility is fine.
production is better. if you want to argue that those guys will provide better production out of the DH spot, via their versatility, situational hitting, baserunning, or otherwise than, say, what production the white sox got out of jim thome last year, carry on. strikes me as pie in the sky.
Never confuse activity with results, I always say.
"don tink about new jork. jus come in ready to wing de gay."
by winningugly on Dec 28, 2009 12:52 PM CST up reply actions
Help me out here
1st let me clarify I want a DH. That said, assuming no retardness of Omar at DH what combined line from Kotsay/Jones is acceptable to satisfy you?
"Oh well back to work"
*Flowers against RHP to the rotation
they’re going to be replacement level-ish no matter what. even if Andruw morphs into a fatter version of his old self, he’d still be a better corner OF than DH.
2009 is just 2007 in 2008's clothing. - Trooper
I agree.
That’s sort of where I was headed. Can it be argued that if replacement level offensive production can be attained at DH, the late defensive upgrades that Jones and Kotsay provide adds enough to the value? I don’t really know what to expect from Jones, but there seemed to be some rebound last year (2 years removed from the roids) and his batted ball numbers don’t make it seem crazy he could throw up a decent line. How long can his BABIP stay at the .215 range?
"Oh well back to work"
i don't get your point about late defensive upgrades.
are you suggesting the white sox move jones or kotsay from the DH spot to a defensive position late in games? that sounds like a pretty bad idea.
No of course not
Im suggesting whoever is not playing does provide additional value for late inning defensive replacement. I am asking can you paint a scenario with that on top of a decent line being enough? Obviously a Thome type wouldn’t. I’d think it was usually irrelevant but since I believe they win on run prevention anyway next year, I just wondered.
"Oh well back to work"
the only above average defender signed was Vizquel.
and he should be replacing Teahen late if it matters. that would be of some marginal use.
but the thing is, these half measures just don’t matter. the vagaries of luck are likely to be way more variable in terms of win expectancy than anything the bench can conjure.
2009 is just 2007 in 2008's clothing. - Trooper
above average in relativity to the White Sox...
the White Sox do have one of the best, if not the best bench in the AL and while that might not mean much it can’t be discounted.
by Daniel Berlyn on Jan 1, 2010 4:51 PM CST up reply actions
Those guys would still be on the team though..
At least one of them, if not both.
Not to mention with Rios, Pierre now in the outfield, do you really need a defensive replacement?
It’s not like Pods or JD is out there to be replaced, or Konerko has stone hands. The defense has already improved. This may have been an argument to make last year, a bad one mind you, but makes even less sense now.
by Grinder in Training on Dec 28, 2009 2:14 PM CST up reply actions
i'm confused by what you mean also
but the only way speed is going to make a real difference at the DH is non-SB baserunning (since SB/CS is in most projection systems). that’s like max +5 runs for whoever we’re talking about, so it turns them into a 1B from a position adjustment perspective instead of a DH’s pos adj.
2009 is just 2007 in 2008's clothing. - Trooper
i think that's too high
there were only 3 American League teams whose DH’s garnered an OPS higher than .810
2009 is just 2007 in 2008's clothing. - Trooper
gosh, i wonder why.
again, what is the point of putting someone out there who isn’t better than the “average”? teams fuck this up. all the time. the DH spot isn’t there for you to put the guy who you accidentally signed to a long term deal that looks really bad now that he sucks. or to keep your bench players fresh. or to rotate your versatile players through.
AL teams are provided one lineup spot where you can put someone whose sole purpose is to provide offense. if you aren’t getting a fair amount above the league average offense, you’re doing it wrong.
i don't think it's an accident that all but 2 teams managed at least -1 bRAA
from the DH spot, but only 3 could beat an .810 OPS. i’ll grant that there’s no reason at all to ever hit less than about league average, but anything more than that and we’re talking about how much a team is willing to pay, who’s available, etc. so for ‘09, the Sox will be doing it wrong if they don’t sign one of the myriad DH options who will sign on the cheap for 1-2 win production.
2009 is just 2007 in 2008's clothing. - Trooper
no.
the white sox would be doing it wrong by failing to sign a DH who can produce at that level. you just pointed out in your article that the going price for a DH per win is less than what it is for other players. if a large market team like the white sox cannot find it in their budget to pay a DH, they’re doing it wrong.
i would note that your list of DHs exceeding 110+ does not include the DH the white sox had last season.
produce at what level?
what are we disagreeing about now? don’t we both see it as a failure if the Sox don’t sign one of the various obvious options?
2009 is just 2007 in 2008's clothing. - Trooper
you said league average.
of course it’s a failure. currently, just about any of those would be an improvement over what they have now. it would be a mistake to simply choose a league average offensive players.
I want a 2 win DH
but there isn’t a candidate out there that will definitely get you there. They’re all in the 1-2 win range.
2009 is just 2007 in 2008's clothing. - Trooper
by colintj on Dec 28, 2009 5:00 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
how bout Tejada?
I don’t research this WAR crap like you but i’d assume he is up there.
Kenwo4life=ratings
when you take away his positional adjustment for being a SS
he isn’t
" Do you guys know people like you are the reason I wouldn’t come on for exstended periods of time. You rui the baseball blogging expieriance."
by trademaker on May 30, 2009 10:31 PM PDT
interesting.
id be for the sox signing him and putting him over at 3rd.
of course we have mark “george brett” teahen there… but still.
Kenwo4life=ratings
There are candidates.
LaRoche gets you there, and he’s probably least likely of the rest to backslide. But we won’t pay for him. The rest all have done it recently but are trending the wrong way. Age-wise, Cust is probably the next least likely to regress. I think Vlad, Thome, Huff, and Dye are all risky. Here’s a question though – and apologies if I’ve missed something – but if WAR factors in fielding, how do you adjust for a position player becoming a DH? For example, wouldn’t Dye’s projected WAR go up if he were just a DH and his defense was removed from the calculation?
OK...
… but let’s say Dye had a -.03 WAR last year. That would have been adjusted for right fielders, no? So I guess I’m wondering if you could figure out what his WAR would have been if he’d been a DH. Does that make sense or am I totally in over my head?
you could do that.
essentially, you’d remove whatever his (negative) defensive stats were and then simply replace his RF position adjustment with the DH position adjustment.
OK.
Thanks. So without that adjustment, you can’t really just look at past WAR for a position player to project their value at DH.
past batting wins
2009 is just 2007 in 2008's clothing. - Trooper
by colintj on Dec 29, 2009 3:26 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Ooh. That's a new one.
Tell me more. Talk dirty to me.
.
These events have me frightened and on the verge of evacuating my bowels.
by thatshortkid on Dec 29, 2009 11:17 AM CST up reply actions
one of my biggest qualms with WAR
Jim Thome is not more valuable on defense than Jermaine Dye.
by Daniel Berlyn on Jan 1, 2010 4:55 PM CST up reply actions
the position adjustment for a DH
is -17.5 runs, which is equal to being -10 runs in left or right field (-10 plus the LF/RF pos adj of -7.5).
that plus whatever the player is projected to hit is his wins above average. add a replacement adjustment to get WAR.
2009 is just 2007 in 2008's clothing. - Trooper
we'll see.
if a healthy Quentin gets us the 2008 version, then this DH debate is moot.
2009 is just 2007 in 2008's clothing. - Trooper
he's been busted most of his career
and he’s still OPS’d .840 for it. meanwhile the Sox are noted for their skills in keeping players healthy. i’m not saying count on it, but there’s got to be some chance at a repeat.
2009 is just 2007 in 2008's clothing. - Trooper
I expect about 120-130 OPS+
which would still probably be negated by a Jones/Kotsay platoon.
by Daniel Berlyn on Jan 1, 2010 4:56 PM CST up reply actions
Lake Woebegon...
Is where all the children are above average.
There's Your Zagnut!!!
by DrEmilioLizardo on Dec 28, 2009 2:39 PM CST up reply actions
Yes the Juan Pierre signing was a smart move. Who disagrees?
Ron Rivera Return
by Oso Monstar of Midway on Dec 28, 2009 12:27 PM CST reply actions
I know Gordon Beckham agrees.
Ron Rivera Return
by Oso Monstar of Midway on Dec 28, 2009 12:27 PM CST reply actions
The inclusion of a reply button on this site was a smart move. Who disagrees?
by larry on Dec 28, 2009 12:28 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
I'll have the chicken salad.
by The Actual El Guapo on Dec 28, 2009 12:35 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Now you're talking my language!
Reporter: I was wondering if at any point in my lifetime the Cubs weren't going to be run by a guy who didn't immediately remind me of failure, confusion, or imminent death
Buck Mulligan peeped an instant under the mirror and then covered the bowl smartly.
— Back to barracks, he said sternly.
He added in a preacher’s tone:
— For this, O dearly beloved, is the genuine Christine: body and soul and blood and ouns. Slow music, please. Shut your eyes, gents. One moment. A little trouble about those white corpuscles. Silence, all.
White Sox fan; Jeppson's Malort man
by KarkoviceIsHawt on Dec 28, 2009 2:15 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Joyce! OH NOOOOOO!
I just left this party! What a world!
Reporter: I was wondering if at any point in my lifetime the Cubs weren't going to be run by a guy who didn't immediately remind me of failure, confusion, or imminent death
Why does it burn when I pee?
Can I fly a kite out the window?
I never would have had that year in college without that horse.
There's Your Zagnut!!!
by DrEmilioLizardo on Dec 28, 2009 1:07 PM CST up reply actions
I hope my prostate exam on Wednesday goes well.
"don tink about new jork. jus come in ready to wing de gay."
by winningugly on Dec 28, 2009 12:53 PM CST up reply actions
The van. Get in it.
Actually, I nominate the prostate van for DH. It drives, stores, pokes and probes. Quite versatile.
by The Actual El Guapo on Dec 28, 2009 1:00 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
this is the best post-Christmas thread of 2009.
"I like my DH like I like my women. Fat , slow and full of power."
by soxshenanigans
Since theres a crazy tree here today, Im going to climb.
Lets sign Frank Thomas to be our DH.
Whos with me? Oso? Kenwo? Guapo? Lizardo? any other -o?
"I like my DH like I like my women. Fat , slow and full of power."
by soxshenanigans
Get Jerry to cross-promote, Derrick Rose for DH.
He’s fast, young, versatile, and probably very bad at baseball. Perfect fit for the Sox.
The 2009 White Sox....like a 40 degree day.
by Ozzie Montana on Dec 28, 2009 1:33 PM CST up reply actions
I'd like to see him cross pollinate Rose with Flowers
by mick10 on Dec 28, 2009 1:42 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
Thorn-ton belongs in that MS paint picture too.
"I like my DH like I like my women. Fat , slow and full of power."
by soxshenanigans
I read it as cross-pollinate at first glance too..
I was assuming OM was looking to create a super human of some sort.
by Grinder in Training on Dec 28, 2009 1:55 PM CST up reply actions
I was actually hoping that would happen at the tail end of 2009.
Invite him to Spring Training, let him get some at bats. Let him retire as a Sox.
It worked for Bernie Mac-o!
There's Your Zagnut!!!
by DrEmilioLizardo on Dec 28, 2009 1:39 PM CST up reply actions
Worked?
He’s dead! Not a preferred outcome.
"don tink about new jork. jus come in ready to wing de gay."
by winningugly on Dec 28, 2009 1:41 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Fuck. Your. Self.
I’m serious. If they signed Thomas to be the DH i would be much more confident of our chances than I am with Andruw and Kotsay. He’d hit more homers and have a better OBP…. no doubt in my mind.
Kenwo4life=ratings
I tend to agree.
Strangely enough, if Frank had kept himself in circulation and decent shape over the past year, we may be seriously considering him once more.
Yeah, like fine wine, Frank improves with age.
Which is why everyone is lining up to sign him. Get off the nostalgia train.
"don tink about new jork. jus come in ready to wing de gay."
he'd hit better than the .179 good ol andruw has averaged the last 3 years
and he is probably in better shape than him too.
Kenwo4life=ratings
Kotsay is better than Frank at this point in their respective careers.
Sorry. It had to be said. If you want to be ridiculous, go ahead. I don’t have to listen. Fer Chrissakes. Frank’s Mom would agree.
"don tink about new jork. jus come in ready to wing de gay."
LOL.
Kittle’s still got rooftop power. I’ve seen it.
"don tink about new jork. jus come in ready to wing de gay."
get that cuban out of short and put ozzie there. the guy's got a ROY from that position, fer chrissakes.
These events have me frightened and on the verge of evacuating my bowels.
by thatshortkid on Dec 28, 2009 4:23 PM CST up reply actions
i wouldn't go that far
but ozzie/cora/omar…. almost the same. might as well made ozzie player manager.
The point is these moves to “solidify the bench” or for a “versatility at the DH position” are fucking garbage.
Kenwo4life=ratings
I was joking
but I absolutely knew you would want to sign Frank.
"I like my DH like I like my women. Fat , slow and full of power."
by soxshenanigans
he's better than what we have.
whether he played last year or not. are you saying you would rather have Andruw Jones DH half the time instead?
Kenwo4life=ratings
i'd like to see some sort of ceremonial signing
but I think hes done as a productive bat.
I rather not see Andruw Jones either but its too late for that.
"I like my DH like I like my women. Fat , slow and full of power."
by soxshenanigans
Really? You would rather have the Frank Thomas 2010 model over Kotsay?
I dont know where to start…. Can you also say “The Bush Adminstration respected the Constitution” with a straight face?
There's Your Zagnut!!!
by DrEmilioLizardo on Dec 28, 2009 4:23 PM CST up reply actions
Pretty good with the Jumper Cables, too...
There's Your Zagnut!!!
by DrEmilioLizardo on Dec 28, 2009 4:28 PM CST up reply actions
Thomas would hit more homers and draw more walks.
Kotsay isn’t an everyday DH. Thomas would be more productive.
Kenwo4life=ratings
The question posed wasn't would you sign Frank....but, given the choice of the two for the singular DH role.....who would you take?
There’s no doubt about it.
I don't believe that was the question posed.
"don tink about new jork. jus come in ready to wing de gay."
WTF does Dewon Day have to do with anything?
"don tink about new jork. jus come in ready to wing de gay."
I feel bad,
since I get no head or tail no matter how many times I flip.
"don tink about new jork. jus come in ready to wing de gay."
Get more coin, and you will get more tail
You never see a billionaire with an ugly wife.
There's Your Zagnut!!!
by DrEmilioLizardo on Dec 28, 2009 4:39 PM CST up reply actions
same goes for sarah silverman
wrapped and sealed with masking tape moistened with sweat experience existence of ignorance
by onlysoxfaninboston on Dec 28, 2009 7:18 PM CST up reply actions
c'mon natalie portman was even hotter than sarah silverman
back when she was in the professional
wrapped and sealed with masking tape moistened with sweat experience existence of ignorance
by onlysoxfaninboston on Dec 29, 2009 7:09 AM CST up reply actions
sucks to be you
“oso monstar” is actually Chris Hansen.
“Why don’t you take a seat?”
White Sox fan; Jeppson's Malort man
by KarkoviceIsHawt on Dec 29, 2009 9:52 AM CST up reply actions
i think
he would have to time travel to 1994 and attempt to seduce natalie portman for that to qualify.
but i also feel dirty when i watch that movie.
Lurking since 2006
by boyonthedock on Dec 29, 2009 12:42 PM CST up reply actions
And that is what I like about it
… along with all the ultraviolence.
There's Your Zagnut!!!
by DrEmilioLizardo on Dec 29, 2009 1:02 PM CST up reply actions
as i tell the whores at the titty bar
if i flip a coin ten times, what are my chances of getting head?
Praise Him!!
What is the longest river in Poland?
by The Actual El Guapo on Dec 28, 2009 4:34 PM CST up reply actions
No the implication was Thomas was more valuable than
Kotsay, Jones, Flowers and the kitchen sink next year. Which is simply not true.
"Oh well back to work"
Ok.. since we are platooning a DH.
let kotsay be the lefty….. in a righty platoon… frank or andruw? if you say andruw you are on a bigger nostalgic trip than i am
Kenwo4life=ratings
No Im not
Id rather take a chance on Jones than Thomas. Why the hell do I want to bring in a 42 year DH who hasnt played in over a year? Get serious.
"Oh well back to work"
because you are taking a chance on a 33 year old
who has averaged .179 since steroid testing became relevant.
Kenwo4life=ratings
Even by your flawed logic he ops'd .782
last year. Higher than Thomas’s last year. There are some signs in his numbers that he might rebound if he reports in shape. He still seems to have power.
"Oh well back to work"
i can point to a decent enough frank thomas season
before you can point to one for jones.
Kenwo4life=ratings
lol thats a decent year? you've got low standards. I'm sure this would look decent enough for you to bang too...
Kenwo4life=ratings
i'm sure she cleans up well
Lurking since 2006
by boyonthedock on Dec 29, 2009 12:43 PM CST up reply actions
now that I would be intrigued by
2009 is just 2007 in 2008's clothing. - Trooper
by colintj on Dec 28, 2009 5:05 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
hell yes lets do it
sign Barry!
hed be reasonably cheap, too.
too bad hes black-listed.
"I like my DH like I like my women. Fat , slow and full of power."
by soxshenanigans
hmm well his 2008 time with oakland
he hit 263 with a 364 OBP. thats better than kotsay.
Kenwo4life=ratings
I notice you left out that
fcking .387 slugging percentage. Just what I want, the big hurt as Scotty Pods.
"Oh well back to work"
Thats fcking horrible too
Jones has more power than that it seems. And Kotsay slugged .420 vs righties.
"Oh well back to work"
Thomas was playing in oaklands expansive outfield
here at the cell he would jump right up to his career averages :)
Kenwo4life=ratings
lol
I cant believe we’re fighting about a 42 year Thomas,Mark Kotsay and Andrew freaking Jones. This sucks.
"Oh well back to work"
... and on this, I think we can all* agree.
- The phrase “we can all” is a registered trademark of The Actual El Guapo Enterprises and excludes Oso Monstar of the Midway and probably Where Triples Go To Die. All rights reserved.
by The Actual El Guapo on Dec 28, 2009 4:58 PM CST up reply actions
the crazy tree has many branches.
"I like my DH like I like my women. Fat , slow and full of power."
by soxshenanigans
Your winter vacation is getting to you.
Get out of the house. Your pregnant wife is driving you nuts. (I am giving you the benefit of the doubt here.)
"don tink about new jork. jus come in ready to wing de gay."
He goes from first to second on a double
as well as anyone.
"don tink about new jork. jus come in ready to wing de gay."
by the way...
i think frank got stuck in the whole 90s power hitter disappearance act/bad economy thing. If it was the offseason before last years i think he would have gotten an invite somewhere.
Kenwo4life=ratings
I'm as big of fan of his as you are, Kenwo, and nothing would please me more than seeing him make a successful comeback,
but he was really, really bad in 2008.
by The Actual El Guapo on Dec 28, 2009 5:10 PM CST up reply actions
yah but in years past they were alloted that one more opportunity
he never received his. in 2006 he was a stud. in 2007 he was pretty good. his 2008 was tough for sure…. i just wish he would have gotten/gets that last chance.
Kenwo4life=ratings
shes above replacement level.
Kenwo4life=ratings
by KenWo4LiFe on Dec 28, 2009 5:16 PM CST up reply actions 5 recs
Always check the thumbs.
“Conveniently” hidden in this picture.
by The Actual El Guapo on Dec 28, 2009 5:23 PM CST up reply actions
and even if you think kotsay is better.....
he’ll be playing right field for Q by mid may anyway. Thomas is better than Jones.
Kenwo4life=ratings
I am in no way saying that this is the desirable move..... compared to others out there
like Vlad, Tejada, Dye, Thome, Cust lalalal you all know the list….. but given the choice between a nostalgic trip with the Big Hurt or the Andruw/Kotsay/Flowers/Vizquel versatility show… I’d take the Big Hurt.
Kenwo4life=ratings
If nothing else comes of this debate, the name "Versatility Show" for the current abomination of a DH combo is dead perfect.
In the hopefully unlikely event that this ever comes to pass, I’m slapping my own 67WMAQ-like trademark on it immediately.
by The Actual El Guapo on Dec 28, 2009 4:52 PM CST up reply actions
sorry. by posting it without the trademark, SSS now owns it.
you should read our terms of use. it often comes as a surprise that, after 10,000 posts, we legally own, at our sole discretion, (i) you; (ii) your first born son; or, (iii) your first two (2) daughters.
all aboard!
These events have me frightened and on the verge of evacuating my bowels.
by thatshortkid on Dec 28, 2009 4:21 PM CST up reply actions
The movie, Mr something thousand....
Pouring out a diet pepsi for my homie… RIP, south side Berno…
There's Your Zagnut!!!
by DrEmilioLizardo on Dec 28, 2009 1:47 PM CST reply actions
BP puts Q above (gulp) Carl Crawford.
4. Carlos Quentin (.273/.363/.485 PECOTA) .236/.323/.456: Injuries kept Quentin from putting together a full season and limited his production while he was on the field as well. The .219 ISO he put up even while hurt is a good sign, though. Assuming his .269 BABIP moves back to where it’s supposed to, then Quentin’s 2010 forecast and actual performance should both look much better than this past season’s effort. If he’s healthy, that should happen.
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=9889
"don tink about new jork. jus come in ready to wing de gay."
More fun at BP, just for snicks:
89: The number of times Darin Erstad entered the game for the Houston Astros as a pinch-hitter or as part of a double switch. Here’s another set of numbers: .194/.268/.328. I’ll give you a hint. Those numbers also belong to Darin Erstad.
Heh.
Oh, and BP also sucks:
28,036: The attendance at US Cellular Field on July 23rd. Funny enough, all of my Chicago friends claim to have been there that day, even though most of my Chicago friends are Cubs fans. Other than Mark Buehrle’s perfect game, did anything interesting really happen to the White Sox this year? B-Rock wearing his Sox jacket to throw out the first pitch at the All-Star Game?
A-hole.
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=9888
"don tink about new jork. jus come in ready to wing de gay."
Come on.. it was a day game on a work day.
I realize we aren’t the Cubs or Yankees but 28,036 isn’t that bad considering the circumstances.
by Grinder in Training on Dec 28, 2009 1:57 PM CST up reply actions
I was referring to his jerkwad "interesting" comment.
SAVIOR!
"don tink about new jork. jus come in ready to wing de gay."
You forgot Dave Parker and Don Mattingly over Tim Raines for HOF.
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=9883
(and yes, I am aware that BP is not a monolithic entity and that John Perrotto speaks for no one but himself … but damn).
by The Actual El Guapo on Dec 28, 2009 2:28 PM CST up reply actions
they let him speak for himself, don't they?
not like he’s writing that on a bathroom stall.
2009 is just 2007 in 2008's clothing. - Trooper
Buehlre's perfect game gives us a better season than any non playoff team at least right?
Please find Jay Cutler some help...
DH Spot Patience
If we wait til just before ST, someone like Cust or Huff or LaRoche will be available for a cheap 1 year deal and will fit quite nicely into the LH DH spot and can platoon with Q and Andruw to give us more than adequate production from the DH spot while also having some good lefty/righty platoons in the outfield and IB (w/Kotsay). Patience will pay off – you’ll see…..
they are already available for cheap deals
which is why i cited Johnson and Matsui
2009 is just 2007 in 2008's clothing. - Trooper
This reminds me of a poem.
First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak out for me.
So, in sum, if we are too patient, it will result in a holocaust. Next?
by ExileDC on Dec 28, 2009 2:14 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Thank you.
The moel was very talented.
by ExileDC on Dec 28, 2009 2:29 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
From Holocaust to DH to a Bris... arent we all cosmopolitan!
I for one am a Trade Unionist (Billy Bragg4ever!!) and despise you for not standing up for me.
There's Your Zagnut!!!
by DrEmilioLizardo on Dec 28, 2009 2:45 PM CST up reply actions
Well, Tracy, when you put it like that,
it DOES sound horseshit:
CHICAGO is looking for treasures in the garbage of others in an effort to rebound from a sub-.500 season and third-place finish. They added Juan Pierre from the Dodgers to fill a center field need. L.A. was anxious enough to move Pierre that they agreed to pay $10.5 million of the $18.5 million Pierre is guaranteed in the final two years of his current contract. The White Sox also acquired 3B Mark Teahan, who went from a non-tender candidate in Kansas City to receiving a three-year guarantee in Chicago. They also signed one-time Seattle closer J.J. Putz, who is coming off surgery, former Gold Glove outfielder Andruw Jones — a .179 hitter the last three years — and shortstop Omar Vizquel, who at the age of 42 is joining his third team in three years and has played only 154 games combined the last two seasons.
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/how-al-teams-have-addressed-needs
"don tink about new jork. jus come in ready to wing de gay."
It gave my husband such a headache!
Anyone have a bottle of bat-sh*t crazy I can take for the next decade?
There's Your Zagnut!!!
by DrEmilioLizardo on Dec 28, 2009 4:20 PM CST up reply actions
Cowboy hat? Yeah, thanks for the insight, Larry Lujack
The moment he said “Juan Pierre and Center Field” I tuned out.
Well, you gotta take it all in,
and separate the wheat from the chaff.
"don tink about new jork. jus come in ready to wing de gay."
Doent stop FoxNews one little bit...
There's Your Zagnut!!!
by DrEmilioLizardo on Dec 28, 2009 4:29 PM CST up reply actions
-pulls down skirt-
I am sooo embarrassed!
I alternate poking sticks at Uber-liberals and Arch-conservatives daily- just the right’s turn today.
There's Your Zagnut!!!
by DrEmilioLizardo on Dec 28, 2009 4:33 PM CST up reply actions
Mr. Cowboy Hat is not the first to say Pierre is in CF
Despite the fact that the general manager of the ballclub said, on the record, that Pierre is in left, five national baseball writers have said he’s playing center.
I don’t get it.
Do you honestly believe Pierre will play ZERO games in CF?
I do not believe that.
"don tink about new jork. jus come in ready to wing de gay."
I believe he will have Zero game in CF, regardless how many games he plays
There's Your Zagnut!!!
by DrEmilioLizardo on Dec 28, 2009 4:36 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I don't doubt it either.
But he wasn’t brought in to “fill their need in CF.”
He was supposed to be the “leadoff hitter in the leadoff position™”
I like that you have the "leadoff position" trademarked.
"don tink about new jork. jus come in ready to wing de gay."
Wow..
here I thought Leadoff Position was a variation on the missionary position. I have a lot of explaining to do to the wife.
There's Your Zagnut!!!
by DrEmilioLizardo on Dec 28, 2009 4:48 PM CST up reply actions
i believe this is my cue to add
JUAN PIERRE IS NOT FUCKING PLAYING FUCKING CENTER FIELD.
the suck is not just a river in ireland.
now, son, why don't you just settle down there a little bit and let me tell you a tale about ken griffey jr.
by larry on Dec 28, 2009 5:23 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
i'll bet you 20$ in comiskey cash
that pierre won’t play center unless rios is either injured, given a day off or benched for playing like he did with the sox last year.
the suck is not just a river in ireland.
ozzie has a tendency
to give lots of days off. so every sunday expect to see pierre in center
Kenwo4life=ratings
Now i read that contreras and dye might be cubs targets.
::brushing up on his singing for a round or two of GO CUBS GO::
Kenwo4life=ratings
i'm eagerly anticipating your duet with WTGTD if those go through.
These events have me frightened and on the verge of evacuating my bowels.
by thatshortkid on Dec 28, 2009 4:52 PM CST up reply actions
Do the Cubs realize they have played in the NL all this time?
Watching Dye and Soriano in the same outfield would be must-see TV.
The 2009 White Sox....like a 40 degree day.
by Ozzie Montana on Dec 28, 2009 11:43 PM CST up reply actions
interesting fact
do you know that ho chi min used to work on the cross channel ferries.
by hoodlight on Dec 28, 2009 5:27 PM CST via mobile reply actions
Leonardo Da Vinci invented the scissors.
by The Actual El Guapo on Dec 28, 2009 5:31 PM CST up reply actions
as soon as he did, i'm sure he said something to the effect of "how come nobody had invented the scissors yet?"
Cashing checks and having sex.
by MarketMaker on Dec 28, 2009 10:43 PM CST up reply actions
please explain "in the smoke"
There's Your Zagnut!!!
by DrEmilioLizardo on Dec 28, 2009 6:36 PM CST up reply actions
not amsterdam?
These events have me frightened and on the verge of evacuating my bowels.
by thatshortkid on Dec 28, 2009 7:18 PM CST up reply actions
Good on you, hoodie.
You got a job faster than Tdogg. Of course, that is to be expected.
"don tink about new jork. jus come in ready to wing de gay."
aint this a bitch
i was looking forward to someone else getting ragged on for a bit….
"Oh well back to work"
good news everyone!
just flipped on mlb network. it said phil rogers will be on soon!
hopefully he’ll explain some of his complex formulas to us.
the suck is not just a river in ireland.
well
he managed to not embarrass himself or the city of chicago. he provided virtually no information nonetheless.
the suck is not just a river in ireland.
Im embarrassed for MLB Network.
He was billed as Phil Rogers, MLB insider.
Thats down-right shameful.
"I like my DH like I like my women. Fat , slow and full of power."
by soxshenanigans
this is ridiculous....12th? how?
http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/orioles/bal-sp.rogers27dec27,0,6141055.story
Please find Jay Cutler some help...
that's funny
what a douche
It's called Sex Panther by Odeon. It's illegal in nine countries... Yep, it's made with bits of real panther, so you know it's good.
They've done studies, you know. 60% of the time it works, every time.
no kidding
Brad Penny and Kyle Lohse propel the Cardinals to 4th best rotation?
OMFG.
"I like my DH like I like my women. Fat , slow and full of power."
by soxshenanigans
Payroll.
The more you spend, the better the rotation is ranked. Right? Isn’t that a good stat?
"don tink about new jork. jus come in ready to wing de gay."
by winningugly on Dec 29, 2009 11:23 AM CST up reply actions
doing the right thing
defence is the premium attribute now, high strikeout sluggers should be left behind.
Designated hitters don't have to play defense.
The 2009 White Sox....like a 40 degree day.
by Ozzie Montana on Dec 28, 2009 11:43 PM CST up reply actions
or defence
we play in a hitter’s ballpark/launch pad. Might as well get some bats that can hit the ball out of the park. Not a fucking platoon of Vizquel/Kotsay/Jones.
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
by BobbySouthSide on Dec 29, 2009 7:29 AM CST up reply actions
every day that passes
i get a little more nervous that they are serious about the versatility show!
Kenwo4life=ratings
You don't go to church.
Otherwise I’d ask for the reason for the comparative statement.
"don tink about new jork. jus come in ready to wing de gay."
by winningugly on Dec 29, 2009 11:53 AM CST up reply actions
going to throw out a bears question... cheat don't ban me....
I’m a raiders fan so I don’t really care… but…. what would you rather have- that win last night and lovie returning at coach or to get totally embarrassed last night and have Cowher or Shannahan coaching????
Cowher as coach may have peaked my interest in them.
Kenwo4life=ratings
I think we'd all like Cowher or Shannahan
But your premise is false. Even if they got blasted last night the Bears wouldn’t pay for those coaches.
"Oh well back to work"
Why do you cheer for Ozzie, Konerko and Buerhle
even though you hate their guts?
"Oh well back to work"
i don't hate buehrle at all.
I don’t think he is an ace by any means…. but I respect what he has been able to accomplish.
Konerko is highly over rated.
Guillen is a terrible manager.
Kenwo4life=ratings
Thanks for clarifying how you feel about Ozzie.
Cause I was hiding in an undisclosed secret location with Dick Cheney for the past two years.
oh wait- is it tuesday? “Hiding like Bill Clinton from his wife”, or “Hiding like Illegal Immigrants from INS agents”
There's Your Zagnut!!!
by DrEmilioLizardo on Dec 29, 2009 1:08 PM CST up reply actions
Konerko overrated? By who?
I mean the majority of sox fans, sure, because he is one of the best we have. But that’s about it. I don’t see anyone nationally every putting PK as the top hitter in the league or the top defense 1B, etc.
I wonder if Ozzie slept with your wife since you hate him so much.
Lupe, release the balloons!
I don't respect the love he gets from the sox fans
after he single handedly tanked 2003 for us… along with the 2008 debacle. Magglio Ordonez, Carlos Lee and Jermaine Dye have all done better than him but he gets the love…. why you ask? Because he is white!
Kenwo4life=ratings
sorry, we traded him for pena
bird law in this country is not ruled by reason
by soxshenanigans on Dec 29, 2009 3:17 PM CST up reply actions
Gotcha. So you don't care much for that whole "Paulie! Paulie!" chant when he comes up to bat. makes sense.
I mean I never was the biggest fan of his. BUT I respect the number of years he stayed with us, and he did provide a lot of good memories. Good guy. Don’t hate KenWo, don’t hate. JD was my fav, but paulie wasn’t too far back.
Lupe, release the balloons!
Yeah and why are you a Raiders fan anyway?
WTF. How old are you? Certainly not enough to remember any extended success.
"Oh well back to work"
I liked Eazy E and he either wore a raiders hat or a white sox hat.
plus they were great in Tecmo Super Bowl with bo jackson and all. I have always liked the “bad guys”…wether it be in wrestling, in chicago baseball, in rap music- the raiders give off that feel.
Kenwo4life=ratings
a buddy of mine is a huge chargers fan and has applied for UC-Berkeley in the fall
told him that if he got in i’d go with him to the next yearly chargers/raiders game at the black hole in full chargers gear.
fucker has a more-than-decent shot at getting in. i’ve always wondered what life would be like perforated.
These events have me frightened and on the verge of evacuating my bowels.
by thatshortkid on Dec 29, 2009 12:39 PM CST up reply actions
i did appreciate your "castro bars update" year-end roundup, noodles.
they all sound fabulous.
These events have me frightened and on the verge of evacuating my bowels.
by thatshortkid on Dec 29, 2009 1:12 PM CST up reply actions
Ladies... put the acryllics away.
and just snuggle for a bit, ok? Here- have an appletini.
There's Your Zagnut!!!
by DrEmilioLizardo on Dec 29, 2009 1:22 PM CST up reply actions
it'd be easier to set aside
if i hadn’t fucked his comatose wife
2009 is just 2007 in 2008's clothing. - Trooper
The Raiders haven't been bad boys for what, 20 years?
Bo Jackson was the last cool person to play for that team, unless you count the time Bill Romanowski put his teammate in the hospital in a fit of roid rage.
They make the Clippers and Pirates look like competent organizations, and their fanbase is full of boring attention whores. But, at least you’re not a Cowboys fan.
Vinny Del Negro interviewed for the job today. I mean come on! Nobody else thinks this is nuts?
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 6, 2008 5:21 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
by Ozzie Montana on Dec 29, 2009 12:41 PM CST up reply actions
that's cute
someone signed the skull on his halloween costume
His name is Rios and he dances on the sand
nhamdi asomugha
or something. he’s good right?
Lurking since 2006
by boyonthedock on Dec 29, 2009 12:55 PM CST up reply actions
the Jerry Rice of the Raiders was not the all time great Jerry Rice.
"I like my DH like I like my women. Fat , slow and full of power."
by soxshenanigans
they had moss and woodson.
had.
These events have me frightened and on the verge of evacuating my bowels.
by thatshortkid on Dec 29, 2009 1:18 PM CST up reply actions
holy christ youre a fucking idiot.
but youre our idiot, i guess, now.
"I like my DH like I like my women. Fat , slow and full of power."
by soxshenanigans
well he WAS right about Linebrink.
Of course, so was absolutely everyone else.
logic's been dead
kenwo shoots from his hip and thinks with his gut.
by colintj on Dec 29, 2009 1:15 PM CST
my fave
“And I am upset that Chef Ramsey picked Christina to run his kitchen instead of Petroza. Dont know if you watch Hells Kitchen but it is a quality show.”
2009 is just 2007 in 2008's clothing. - Trooper
actually, you need to justify this:
“That will be the downfall of the sox this year. going into the year with danks and floyd is not the way to go. i dont like going into the year with one of them let alone both.”
2009 is just 2007 in 2008's clothing. - Trooper
at the time the premise was a sound one.
floyd looked like absolute shit in 2007 and Danks wasn’t much better. To think they would both blossom from the start of the season was very wishful thinking. Fortunately they did.
Kenwo4life=ratings
it just goes to show
how much shit can flip turn upside down.
2009 is just 2007 in 2008's clothing. - Trooper
I was right about a lot of things on that thread.
I called out linebrink before the first time they used him as closer.
Kenwo4life=ratings
So, you're more like Asher Roth?
Vinny Del Negro interviewed for the job today. I mean come on! Nobody else thinks this is nuts?
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 6, 2008 5:21 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
by Ozzie Montana on Dec 29, 2009 1:45 PM CST up reply actions
lol
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JpMZAcmNI7A&feature=related
Vinny Del Negro interviewed for the job today. I mean come on! Nobody else thinks this is nuts?
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 6, 2008 5:21 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
by Ozzie Montana on Dec 29, 2009 1:50 PM CST up reply actions
I admit Kenwo
I enjoy you immensely. I propose a permanent right rail spot for Kenwo’s rants. That stuff was classic.
"Oh well back to work"
what am i supposed to be a bears fan?
the football version of the cubs? come on now.
Kenwo4life=ratings
that comparsion doesn't play
bears don’t spend any money, and have been to a championship game this decade
cubs are baby bears...
bears played at wrigley field…. cubs fans are bears fans…. that makes it close enough for me. fuck the cubs and fuck the bears too.
Kenwo4life=ratings
so you should be a cardinals fan, they played at Comiskey.
my head hurts trying to decipher your logic.
ta ta for now.
"I like my DH like I like my women. Fat , slow and full of power."
by soxshenanigans
logic's been dead
kenwo shoots from his hip and thinks with his gut.
2009 is just 2007 in 2008's clothing. - Trooper
by colintj on Dec 29, 2009 1:15 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I considered being a Cardinals for a while.
I kept trying to root for them but they kept sucking. Not even last year could get me going though. Its passed.
The mid-late 70's Raiders were, with the possible exception of the '85 Bears (and for that year only), the most fun team to root for in the history of sports.
by The Actual El Guapo on Dec 29, 2009 1:12 PM CST up reply actions
I'll put the '96 Bulls ahead of all these teams.
2005 was awesome, but for about a month there was legit belief they were going to fuck it up. The 72-10 Bulls will probably be the only time I’ll root for a team with that supreme confidence.
Vinny Del Negro interviewed for the job today. I mean come on! Nobody else thinks this is nuts?
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 6, 2008 5:21 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
by Ozzie Montana on Dec 29, 2009 1:39 PM CST up reply actions
No.
Basketball will never – never – be as popular as football.
"don tink about new jork. jus come in ready to wing de gay."
Sure, the 85 Bears are a cultural phenomenon.
But, I wasn’t alive for that, and football is hardly as exciting as people try to make it out as. And the original point was about rooting for a fun team, not a popular team. Besides, taking the rest of the world into account the Chicago Bulls were a more popular team anyways.
Vinny Del Negro interviewed for the job today. I mean come on! Nobody else thinks this is nuts?
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 6, 2008 5:21 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
by Ozzie Montana on Dec 29, 2009 1:44 PM CST up reply actions
football is exciting
because of fantasy football and sports betting. thats about it.
Kenwo4life=ratings
The 85 Bear Team
Was the most fun of ANY sports franchise for a season period.
"Oh well back to work"
It may be true, but I can't live vicariously through others' experiences.
Vinny Del Negro interviewed for the job today. I mean come on! Nobody else thinks this is nuts?
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 6, 2008 5:21 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
by Ozzie Montana on Dec 29, 2009 1:49 PM CST up reply actions
those 90s bulls teams made everyone in chicago care about them.
even my grandma watched the bulls games. of course they used to watch the 85 bears too…. if i could watch any of those seasons again though…. I’d take the bulls- the first season jordan came back and rodman’s first year….when they beat seattle
Kenwo4life=ratings
Gotta agree with WU here.
Really, the only thing that made the Bulls so fun that year was that they were so overwhelmingly dominant. The ’85 Bears had the dominance thing, plus the characters, plus a figure in Payton who was far more beloved by the city than Jordan ever was, plus the fact that no team in the city had won anything since ’63.
Oh, and Ditka.
by The Actual El Guapo on Dec 29, 2009 1:49 PM CST up reply actions
the bulls didn't have characters?
dennis rodman is a fucking cartoon. he’s the biggest character there is.
Kenwo4life=ratings
I know you are young
But Rodman on the 85 Bears wouldn’t have even raised an eye brow. And to your point that team was loved by EVERYONE except the Wisconsin fans.
"Oh well back to work"
my mom made me go to church on superbowl sunday and I missed kick off
I was furious.
logic's been dead
kenwo shoots from his hip and thinks with his gut.
by colintj on Dec 29, 2009 1:15 PM CST
Your Mom is a beeyatch.
Football IS religion, son. And the ’85 Bears will never – never – be supplanted as THE best team, nationally beloved, in all of Chicago sports history.
THE best. End of story.
"don tink about new jork. jus come in ready to wing de gay."
I never really found Rodman to be all that much fun.
First of all, he was a key part of those 90’s Pistons teams that we all despised (and one of the main reasons we despised them), so it always seemed a bit hypocritical to be a fan of his crap after having hated it so much back then.
More importantly, I always thought that there was something, you know, like actually wrong with him. Like he was, to put it gently, shit-your-pants-fucking-insane. Made the whole act a whole lot less fun.
by The Actual El Guapo on Dec 29, 2009 2:01 PM CST up reply actions
yeah the 90s Bulls were right there with the 85 Bears for me, especially the 72-10 team.
I was alive for both.
The Bulls were so supremely good I cant even watch basketball anymore, it feels like watching a jv team for me now. Rodman high kicking down the court and diving for balls that were imposssible to get was the perfect compliment for Jordan, Pippen, Kukoc, etc.
logic's been dead
kenwo shoots from his hip and thinks with his gut.
by colintj on Dec 29, 2009 1:15 PM CST
Dont forget old whatshisname...
Scotty “Ive got a sinus headache” Pippin…
There's Your Zagnut!!!
by DrEmilioLizardo on Dec 29, 2009 1:54 PM CST up reply actions
I'll concede since you have the perspective of watching both teams.
But, I’d counter Phil Jackson was every bit as iconic as Ditka. Jordan lost favor with the fans with the whole Wizards debacle, and I’m guessing his HOF speech didn’t please a lot of people, but he’s still the greatest player of all time and fans will certainly take that as a point of pride.
The Bears did have more character, but Rodman was pretty insane. Now that I watch Ron Artest, it’s shocking how much Dennis got away with and the team still dominated for 3 seasons.
Vinny Del Negro interviewed for the job today. I mean come on! Nobody else thinks this is nuts?
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 6, 2008 5:21 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
by Ozzie Montana on Dec 29, 2009 2:00 PM CST up reply actions
Did you consult Fun Above Replacement Team?
Acronym comedy is the highest form of comedy.
by The Actual El Guapo on Dec 29, 2009 2:11 PM CST up reply actions
phil jackson was not and will never be
as iconic as ditka in chicago. no chance…. i’m still with you on the bulls though.
Kenwo4life=ratings
Phil Jackson is an Albany Patroon first and foremost.
So you’re right about that one.
EVERYBODY PICK US FOR 3RD OR 4TH SO I DINK WE DOIN POOTY GOO
Sox Machine
by Sox Machine on Dec 29, 2009 3:57 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
I was not a Bears fan in 85
so someone tell me: How did that Super Bowl Shuffle nonsense play to the home crowd? I know its dated, but even then, didn’t people wonder, “when did the Bears go gay?”
His name is Rios and he dances on the sand
by Nordhagen on Dec 29, 2009 1:30 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
It was the '80's.
One word: Cocaineisahelluvadrug.
by The Actual El Guapo on Dec 29, 2009 1:36 PM CST up reply actions
No.
Successisahhelluvadrug. And my sister boinked K. Butler that year. Nothing gay there.
"don tink about new jork. jus come in ready to wing de gay."
What's her phone #?
Since you are in a sharing mood today…
There's Your Zagnut!!!
by DrEmilioLizardo on Dec 29, 2009 1:56 PM CST up reply actions
Considering they made that song well before the season was over, I loved the cockiness.
I was a kid then, but I ate that shit up. I still have part of my brain used up with a lot of the lyrics.
logic's been dead
kenwo shoots from his hip and thinks with his gut.
by colintj on Dec 29, 2009 1:15 PM CST
Not just before the season was over,
but right after they lost to the Dolphins on Monday Night Football.
Balls.
by The Actual El Guapo on Dec 29, 2009 2:18 PM CST up reply actions
i've heard sleeping with a kicker is the highest form of comedy.
though kevin butler was pretty much as popular as a kicker can get.
Cashing checks and having sex.
"I come from the air/looking for the sack/won't stop coming 'til I have them on their back"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ix081prSiNc
White Sox fan; Jeppson's Malort man
by KarkoviceIsHawt on Dec 29, 2009 1:45 PM CST up reply actions
Doesn't compare.
Have to be “world champion” to count. Not “division champion”.
"don tink about new jork. jus come in ready to wing de gay."
True, though any team with Vance Law automatically starts out with a 9.5 on the funometer.
by The Actual El Guapo on Dec 29, 2009 2:21 PM CST up reply actions
the Bull was my favorite.
logic's been dead
kenwo shoots from his hip and thinks with his gut.
by colintj on Dec 29, 2009 1:15 PM CST
Kittle?
but hes white!
logic's been dead
kenwo shoots from his hip and thinks with his gut.
by colintj on Dec 29, 2009 1:15 PM CST
and Ozzie.
logic's been dead
kenwo shoots from his hip and thinks with his gut.
by colintj on Dec 29, 2009 1:15 PM CST
Cowher has agreed in principle to coach the Bucs
Shanahan is going to cost too much and would demand too much control of the team. IMO he’s worth it, but the McCaskeys aren’t going to fire Angelo and Lovie. Best bet is they fire Ron Turner and replace him with Weiss.
Vinny Del Negro interviewed for the job today. I mean come on! Nobody else thinks this is nuts?
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 6, 2008 5:21 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
by Ozzie Montana on Dec 29, 2009 12:38 PM CST up reply actions
I was hoping the Texans would tank
so they would fire Kubiak and the Bears would get him to be OC. Stupid winning streak
I heard that Shanahan
won’t coach the Bears out of respect for Lovie. not really sure where that stems from….
I heard that if you fry bacon, you should not do it in the nude...
but that takes away from the drama!
There's Your Zagnut!!!
by DrEmilioLizardo on Dec 29, 2009 1:27 PM CST up reply actions
I am very excited by this.
Rays, now Bucs, getting their crap together. And I just met a potential client whose wife tutors Dave Dombrowski’s kids when he’s in FL and said we’ll be going to dinner with him. Says Dave always carries his stat books with him.
Next spring could be very interesting for this OPOS.
"don tink about new jork. jus come in ready to wing de gay."
be sure to let Dave know all that shit's on the internet now
His name is Rios and he dances on the sand
by Nordhagen on Dec 29, 2009 1:44 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
one potential dinner makes for an interesting spring?
just die, old man.
Cashing checks and having sex.
Tickets, meeting players,
asking Miggy if he intentionally sucked the last weekend of 2009 and who bought him drinks, etc.
Sure doesn’t compare to being in an Australian prison or being near death at the Bijou, but I’ll take it. You Eye-tee POS.
PS What’s the trade today? Pretty quiet out there.
"don tink about new jork. jus come in ready to wing de gay."
well, my year ended on the 18th. mission accomplished.
just dotting the i’s and crossing the t’s now.
did just lose some money in CBAK. that sucked. spent christmas in the big easy. leaving tomorrow for mexico. not sure about the bijou reference, but my time spent in the australian prison was unfortunate, but short-lived.
Cashing checks and having sex.
A guy died at the Bijou earlier this fall year during your, ahem, absence.
We thought it might’ve been you.
"don tink about new jork. jus come in ready to wing de gay."
by winningugly on Dec 30, 2009 10:35 AM CST up reply actions
of all the accusations that can be, you chose gay?
i’m slowly shaking my head in disappointment.
Cashing checks and having sex.
by MarketMaker on Dec 30, 2009 11:39 AM CST up reply actions
I said "we".
It’s the Internet. You could’ve been lying. It’s been known to happen.
And you might’ve become desperate for cash. Hey, after Tiger, I believe nothing, and I believe everything.
"don tink about new jork. jus come in ready to wing de gay."
by winningugly on Dec 30, 2009 11:55 AM CST up reply actions
OT: that's some expensive tang
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE5BS38I20091229?type=sportsNews
These events have me frightened and on the verge of evacuating my bowels.
Or, as MM refers to it,
Wedensday.
by The Actual El Guapo on Dec 29, 2009 2:14 PM CST up reply actions
that article is as flawed as your spelling.
but, yeah, wednesdays are expensive.
Cashing checks and having sex.
Bay-->Mets?
4 years 66 million.
Vinny Del Negro interviewed for the job today. I mean come on! Nobody else thinks this is nuts?
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 6, 2008 5:21 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Depends if he stays with STL
And apparently Omar is giving Bay a vesting option, so the contract could end up being 80 million over 5 years.
Vinny Del Negro interviewed for the job today. I mean come on! Nobody else thinks this is nuts?
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 6, 2008 5:21 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
by Ozzie Montana on Dec 29, 2009 2:22 PM CST up reply actions
the only thing worse than this bolton-hull city match
is this thread. mercy.
the suck is not just a river in ireland.
i don't know what you're talking about
this is the best thread in quite a while. from frank thomas keen batting eye, dennis rodman, eazy e, bulls vs. bears, raiders, Thomas Nostalgia Trip vs. Versatility Show…. all golden.
KenWo4LiFe does = ratings…. near 500 posts between christmas and new years proves it!
Kenwo4life=ratings
If your definition of "best thread in quite a while" is synonymous with
“most BJ’s for KenWo”, or “most ludicrous things ever posted by KenWo”, then you’re cookin’.
"don tink about new jork. jus come in ready to wing de gay."
too many options to choose from.
white meat, legs/thighs/breasts, stuffing, basting…how about-
would you look at the tits on that bitch?!?!
Cashing checks and having sex.
well, this thread hasn't gotten better
but hull just tied up bolton at 2. 10 minutes left. awesome.
the suck is not just a river in ireland.
the suck is not just a river in ireland.
it’s what you do to your boyfriend’s dick every night.
by larry on Dec 29, 2009 3:44 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
did i miss something?
when did you become that guy Lar? Or is this a personal feud outside internet civility?
"Oh well back to work"
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