Five worst deals of MLB offseason
5. The White Sox trade Jon Link and John Ely for Juan Pierre.
The same affliction that led the White Sox to believe Scott Podsednik was a talent to be leaned upon as often as possible has now led them to trade for Pierre. Pierre would make a perfectly useful fourth outfielder. He is not, however, an adequate major-league regular. Still, the White Sox have penciled him in as their starting left fielder in 2010. Left field, as you know, is a power position, and Pierre, as you know, has no power. That vaguely adequate .757 OPS he posted last season -- his highest such mark since 2001 -- will also likely come down. He's moving into the tougher AL; his season was built around one hot month (May); and his batting average on balls in play, a bit on the high side last season, will probably come back to earth. With it, so will the rest of his numbers.
As for Pierre's speed, it's an asset, but he's not an efficient base-stealer these days. Yes, he pilfers a lot of bases, but he also gets caught too much. In fact, in his nine full seasons he's led the league in times caught stealing on five occasions. In reality, he's something close to a break-even base stealer (you have to be successful at least 75 percent of the time to make stealing bases even slightly worthwhile). Of course, Ozzie Guillen will probably let him run wild. He'll swipe a lot of bases, but he'll be a solidly below-average hitter. Defensively, he doesn't take proper routes in the outfield, which means you can't put him in center on an extended basis.
Sure, the Dodgers will pay $10.5 million of the remaining $18.5 million that Pierre is owed, but if Link and Ely, the two pitching prospects given up by Chicago (both with success in the upper rungs of the system) turn out to be of consequence, then this deal will look even worse.
about 2 years ago
larry
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Makes a great argument
until that last paragraph with all the facts and logic and stuff.
yes.
i find the love for ely and link that i read in multiple places to be highly amusing and flying in the face of reality. if people want to overvalue prospects, fine. at least make sure you’re doing it with actual prospects. neither link nor ely would rank in the top 20 of the dodgers system. see, e.g. john sickels. even in the woefully shallow white sox system, sickels ranked ely 14th, which i find generous. link wasn’t a top 20 for the white sox, either. these guys are the very definition of organizational filler. sometimes these guys pan out. far more often, they’re worthless. a rational team trades such players for talent that actually has some value (which pierre certainly does) every single time.
by larry on Dec 31, 2009 10:50 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I'd be interested in that definition of "success in the upper rungs"
especially in our threadbare system.
"don tink about new jork. jus come in ready to wing de gay."
by winningugly on Dec 31, 2009 10:56 AM CST up reply actions
pitched well in the offense-stifling regions park.
ad nauseum from me but link wasn’t impressive at AAA and ely joined a long list of soft-tossing righties who succeeded with the barons. relative success in AA doesn’t get very far with me. link walks too many and ely doesn’t have the stuff.
Between the salary throw in by the Dodgers and the non-ness of what we gave up it's pretty hard to find fault with the deal
Even if Pierre puts up lousy numbers we’re no worse off than when we started – and it wasn’t like a better option was about to walk in off the street.
All of which has been said here many times before.
It’s very irritating that Perry would go through such whingeing over the trade and then undermine himself and his basic premise (with a factually deficient parenthetical hedge tossed in) at the very end. You get what you pay for.
if this ranks fifth
then maybe your list shouldn’t have been that long. strikes me more as either a commentary on the newfound sanity amongst GMs or simply the reflex of a lazy writer to fall back on the “pierre is bad, mmkay” meme.
without thinking too much, two moves that strike me as far “worse”: john grabow and jason kendall. both of those players are far more likely to provide their teams with zero to negative value over the next two seasons than pierre is. i mean, grabow has been worth 1.5 WAR for his career. and he got $7.5M. pierre at least can say he routinely reaches or exceeds that mark each season, and is projected to do it again next season.
I'm guessing it's the latter
Lists are manna for lazy writers. They write themselves and are self-arguing. The fact that you’ve got two much better (or worse, such as it is) deals so readily available is further proof that Perry was just phoning it in here.
i should take that back.
three years isn’t good but $15M overall is probably reasonable. that last year could be ugly, though.
i can't believe he is still handing out contracts like that.
not that 5 mil a year is that terrible… but damn this guy is 32 and hasn’t been all that great his whole career. maybe a 2 year deal with an option. not 3. I can’t believe hendry still has a job.
Kenwo4life=ratings
should i say it? yah what the hell... everyones thinking it....
Marlon Byrd will be the next african american who takes the brunt of the attacks from the wrigley faithful. He will be added to the Latroy Hawkins, Jaques Jones, Milton Bradley list.
Kenwo4life=ratings
I was not thinking this.
As I recall, Ernie Banks and Billy Williams were pretty popular. So was Fergie. Are you saying that today’s North Side baseball fan is less tolerant/diverse than in the ’70’s?
"don tink about new jork. jus come in ready to wing de gay."
by winningugly on Dec 31, 2009 12:25 PM CST up reply actions
And thanks for bringing up D. Lee below.
So what you are saying is that Cubs fans don’t like poor performing baseball players who happen to be black. I’m no Cub fan apologist, but I think your assertion is unfair.
"don tink about new jork. jus come in ready to wing de gay."
by winningugly on Dec 31, 2009 12:27 PM CST up reply actions
i have a couple friends that happen to be cub fans (don't know why i am friends with them)
they all said that the bleachers tend to be very racially motivated if a player isn’t playing well.
Kenwo4life=ratings
Not to say this is excusable
But I doubt that anything yelled out in the Cubs bleachers is any different from things that can be overheard at any other stadium. It’s unfortunate, but true.
by Can I Kick It? on Dec 31, 2009 12:42 PM CST up reply actions
The bleachers are terrible, but citing one fanbase as more racist than another is pretty pointless.
Sox fans aren’t ignorant heathens, but I’ve got plenty of stories of assholes who populate our stadium.
Vinny Del Negro interviewed for the job today. I mean come on! Nobody else thinks this is nuts?
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 6, 2008 5:21 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
by Ozzie Montana on Dec 31, 2009 12:47 PM CST up reply actions
"I know" = "I am a (WSF) who",
right, lar?
"don tink about new jork. jus come in ready to wing de gay."
the pakistanis own subways
"I don’t know how you guys measure worth…but I do know you idiots need a graph to show you that Josh Fields sucks…"
by Where Triples Go to Die on Dec 31, 2009 4:36 PM CST up reply actions
Maybe in Karachi.
Vinny Del Negro interviewed for the job today. I mean come on! Nobody else thinks this is nuts?
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 6, 2008 5:21 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
by Ozzie Montana on Dec 31, 2009 4:50 PM CST up reply actions
I just can't stand playa's
since I am not one.
I don’t hate the game, however.
"don tink about new jork. jus come in ready to wing de gay."
You're doing it wrong
White Sox fan; Jeppson's Malort man
by KarkoviceIsHawt on Dec 31, 2009 1:54 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Tdogg, no such player exists:
“Blacks have no chance against whites on the baseball diamond. They simply don’t have what it takes to make the effort,” Boston Red Sox owner Tom Yawkey told The Boston Globe in April 1947, echoing the nation’s sentiments as Jackie Robinson made his major-league debut.
But two months into the season, Yawkey gave a follow-up interview in which he once more crystallized the thoughts of white America, saying, “Well, naturally, Robinson is out there running faster, jumping higher, and hitting the ball farther. Blacks are, if nothing else, more athletically gifted than whites. Sports is what they’re good at.”
http://www.theonion.com/content/news_briefs/african_americans_go_from
"don tink about new jork. jus come in ready to wing de gay."
Yawkey and his retarded kind
Gotta love them huh? No. I have to go rub my extra muscles.
"Oh well back to work"
Id agree that todays cubs fans are more racist than Sox fans
a lot of people that are casual fans and not die hards will go to wrigley and not even consider the cell because its in a’ bad neighborhood’ which loosely translates to ‘there might be black people around there and i am afraid of black people.’
logic's been dead
kenwo shoots from his hip and thinks with his gut.
by colintj on Dec 29, 2009 1:15 PM CST
I don't know...
ernie, billy and fergie were good… so is D Lee. how did they treat african american’s who didn’t play well back then??? I am assuming they are a lot harder now a days.
Kenwo4life=ratings
Also, Sosa didn't turn white until after he left town.
by ReservoirDog on Dec 31, 2009 2:18 PM CST up reply actions
Who dis?
Are you wearing black and gold yet?
"don tink about new jork. jus come in ready to wing de gay."
did the cubs have any fans in the 70’s?
"I don’t know how you guys measure worth…but I do know you idiots need a graph to show you that Josh Fields sucks…"
by Where Triples Go to Die on Dec 31, 2009 4:35 PM CST up reply actions
He'll have the same hitting coach, at least.
EVERYBODY PICK US FOR 3RD OR 4TH SO I DINK WE DOIN POOTY GOO
Sox Machine
by Sox Machine on Dec 31, 2009 12:43 PM CST up reply actions
The comment about Bradley also suggests that
The Cubs reportedly netted $5 million in the deal yet somehow it is suggested that releasing Bradley would have been a better option.
Corporations are not people.....strip personhood.
I argued
stupidly i might add, we a guy that cited Phil Rogers as proof of Ely’s status.
"Oh well back to work"
i don't like Pierre move for the sox
but it isn’t as bad as other moves that have been made. How about giving Brian Anderson a major league contract…thats worse than lyon in my book!
Kenwo4life=ratings
milb.com name hudson minor league starter of the year
torres was named best AAA starter
The 27-year-old’s first full season at Triple-A was successful to a large degree thanks to the addition of two off-speed pitches — a curveball and a changeup — to his existing arsenal of a fastball and a cut fastball, both of which were plus pitches.
Was there something that “clicked” for Torres this year that enabled him to do so?
“Yes and no,” he said, from his home in central California. “With the curveball, I came into Spring Training and asked what I needed to do to get better. They said, ‘You need to also be able to throw off-speed,’ and I just said ‘Done.’”
He felt comfortable almost immediately working his curve regularly into the mix. The changeup, he admitted, took a little longer and, in fact, is still what he terms “a work in progress.” But the White Sox allowed him to work with it and develop it on the job. They’ve been very pleased with the results so far.
i can't get into torres....
any starter that goes exclusively from the stretch is weird.
Kenwo4life=ratings
I'm not sure why everyone thinks a .297 hitter is bad.
Holliday is going to get $18M/yr. He’s better than Pierre but is he worth 4X more? You can’t have $18M players in every position, and all our money is going to our pitching staff.
yes. holliday is worth 4x as much as pierre.
and a .297 hitter is not good if he doesn’t walk and doesn’t hit for power. that would be the very definition of an empty batting average.
holliday should be hitting 1.200 then
See, this is what happens when the Sox bunt.
Discord is sown. Brother fights brother. Misunderstandings abound.
-TAEG
People don't care (at least shouldn't) about batting average
They care about overall production. Is it number 5? I don’t know I havent exactly compared it to every deal. Will he be worth his salary from the Sox? A decent chance he will. Was this the best use of resources? No. You can get a different answer depending on the specific question.
If Pierre hit .297 with a .340-.345 OBP we’ll live. Its a KW deal in the face of other reasons which means it will probably work out that way.
"Oh well back to work"
No I understand the percentages
I am just talking about Karma and KW and the saber community.
Pierre will probably hit .310 (lol)
"Oh well back to work"
Everyone thinks a .297 hitter is bad when he rarely walks and hits for no power
Holliday WAR last years was 5.7. Pierre’s was 1.8. So you’re right. Holliday is only 3.167 times better than Pierre last year. When you factor in that Pierre is older and his skill set will decline faster, you can safely say Holliday is 4 times better.
4x as long as you can catch a fly ball in the playoffs... couldn't resist
"ass hole thi is the same line up whit leftys you idiot"
Makes sense
until you realize the alternatives with our payroll limitations. Ely and Link had no place on the big league club and were destined to be rule V draft picks for us. Then the money…2 years for 7 mil? He would of gotten twice that on the open market.
No they couldn't.
I see this flawed reasoning all the time. Just because a player signs for a deal with X team, doesn’t mean he would have done it with Y. (X pretty much equals the Red Sox and Yankees)
Nick Johnson is the perfect example. He would NOT have signed at that rate for almost every other team and said as much….
"Oh well back to work"
they were both on the 40 man roster
so they were not destined to be rule 5 picks.
by Daniel Berlyn on Dec 31, 2009 5:13 PM CST up reply actions
My bad
I meant 2 years 8 mil, not 7. Still affordable and he would of gotten at least what Cameron got on the open market.
no, pierre would not have gotten Cameron's contract.
Pierre’s current contract has 2 yrs, 15MM left on it. Which is what Cameron got. If Pierre would have gotten that on the open market, the dodgers could have gotten something that looks like a prospect for him instead of Ely and Link.
Pierre's current deal paid him 18.5MM
over 2 years. Majority was eaten so I see your point. I still think he is worth 8MM or 2 years for what he has to offer.
I'm friends with J Hood on facebook....
he is asking who are the 3 guys you predict will be the stars of the next decade….
I put Beckham, Rose and John Danks (because I’m not a hockey fan)… who ya got?
Kenwo4life=ratings
Who were the three stars of this decade? Pretty bad 10 years for Chicago sports with the exception of 05 and 07.
Buehrle or Konerko, Urlacher, and….Kerry Wood? Ben Gordon? Pretty thin list. I guess you could include Devin Hester, he was the most exciting athlete in the city for 2 seasons before it all went to hell.
Vinny Del Negro interviewed for the job today. I mean come on! Nobody else thinks this is nuts?
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 6, 2008 5:21 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
by Ozzie Montana on Dec 31, 2009 12:23 PM CST up reply actions
Buehrle, Konerko and Urlacher
if i chose a cub it would be d. lee….. and there is no way id consider a bull.
Kenwo4life=ratings
maybe the ghost of m.j.
Kenwo4life=ratings
by KenWo4LiFe on Dec 31, 2009 12:31 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
i'd say prior over wood
that was a pretty spectacular burn out all its own.
2009 is just 2007 in 2008's clothing. - Trooper
That's a good question.
I would say Beckham, Rose, and Kane.
That's the "Five Worst Deals, of the First Half, of a Slow Off-season"
- of the of the Five Best Deals, of the First Half, of a Slow Offseason: Sox marginally upgrade their outfield, save some cash, and they still have Hudson.
May 2010 be a great year for all of us....
including the Sox! I thought they would suck in 2005… you never know! (i still can’t believe they traded C Lee for Podsednik. jesus christ).
Kenwo4life=ratings
5 most regrettable things I'm going to do tonight:
5. grope everyone with a belly and say, “oh, i thought you were my baby mama.”
by Trooper on Dec 31, 2009 6:14 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Have fun. You'll get plenty of latitude.
"don tink about new jork. jus come in ready to wing de gay."
Well Happy New Year
assholes
See, this is what happens when the Sox bunt.
Discord is sown. Brother fights brother. Misunderstandings abound.
-TAEG
Aww, you stole my post
Happy New Year everybody
The power play is still f**king clown shoes
Everybody...HIT SOMEBODY! ~ the Chicago Rush are back in April 2010
I dont know about that
but these are some of the reasons I like him next year and don’t bemoan the loss of Dotel. He’s a solid bet to do a decent job out there.
"Oh well back to work"
First sports story of 2010 is NBA players pulling guns on each other in the locker room.
This is going to be a great year.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4787825
Vinny Del Negro interviewed for the job today. I mean come on! Nobody else thinks this is nuts?
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 6, 2008 5:21 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
They WERE once known as the "Bullets".
And it IS DC.
"don tink about new jork. jus come in ready to wing de gay."
In NBA, you not get fired for pulling gun,
gun get fired for pulling you.
"don tink about new jork. jus come in ready to wing de gay."
i find it hard to watch the nba now a days.
just a bunch of thugs. no individuality besides lebron and shaq. i used to really really like basketball. now i find it hard to watch more than 5 minutes of it at a time.
Kenwo4life=ratings
College football is much more pure:
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=4788521
"don tink about new jork. jus come in ready to wing de gay."
college basketball you mean.
football isn’t much better…. NBA hoops sticks out as a sore thumb to me though.
Kenwo4life=ratings
I stand corrected.
Maybe it’s the sport.
"don tink about new jork. jus come in ready to wing de gay."
WU
What is the big deal? Wouldn’t you get drunk and high before you participated in a drive-by shooting?
"I don’t know how you guys measure worth…but I do know you idiots need a graph to show you that Josh Fields sucks…"
by Where Triples Go to Die on Jan 2, 2010 7:55 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
The Stratton Story is on AMC
Old school whitesox footage.
There's Your Zagnut!!!
by DrEmilioLizardo on Jan 1, 2010 11:48 AM CST reply actions
TY.
However, I am watching “The Matrix” on that channel.
"don tink about new jork. jus come in ready to wing de gay."
AMC, TCM, just a bunch a letters...
There's Your Zagnut!!!
by DrEmilioLizardo on Jan 1, 2010 6:43 PM CST up reply actions
exactly, like NU PhD
meaningless letters. ;o)
These events have me frightened and on the verge of evacuating my bowels.
Sigh... another bowl game blown.
Damn Cats… thanks for reminding me of yet another heartbreak. Bastard.
There's Your Zagnut!!!
by DrEmilioLizardo on Jan 1, 2010 9:52 PM CST up reply actions
But you had to love NU +8.5 today
also, couldn’t believe FLA was just a 13 pt favorite. Two big wins help me sleep tight so nighty, night.
Oh and JP will have one spectacular month for us this year…just one. Can you guess which one? If so, you win a 6-pack of High Life (the champagne of beers) and a small white sock full of nickels.
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
by BobbySouthSide on Jan 2, 2010 12:17 AM CST up reply actions
Juan Pierre or Jake Peavy?
I’m serious.
"don tink about new jork. jus come in ready to wing de gay."
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