AL Central WARs: A Conclusive Accounting
by colintj on Mar 16, 2009 4:15 AM CDT
222 comments
Adding It All Up
C | 1B | 2B | 3B | SS | OF | CF | DH
So as an effort to look specifically at the whole picture, the above table is what you get when all proposed starters played 150 games apiece. This is the perfect world, more or less, where injury and depth is no concern. I could have used playing time projections from BP or CHONE, but I'm not convinced they're any more accurate than this admittedly more approximate approach. The idea here is that the perfect world projection minus the comments and caveats I've made in the last week and a half should give the reader an honest idea of how to evaluate the teams relative to each other.
There are some notes, though. I generally took the best available player as rated by WAR. Specifically, this means choosing Mark Teahen over Jose Guillen for 150 games, which is a 2 win swing. There are obvious issues with the method. I'm just trying to get close. Also I left Josh Fields in for 150 games instead of the Better Mitt. Just, you know, because.
Oh and Avg. Diff is the number of wins difference between the average of the non-Sox ALC teams and the Sox. So it purports to tell which positions the Sox are worst/best at relative to their division competition.
It Kinda Looks Like The White Sox Suck
It's easier to see why most projection systems are sticking them in the 75-win range. The breakout players from last year still only have one really good season under their respective belts (Alexei and Q!) and the old power hitters are older and less powerful. It's reasonable and fairly cautious. But is it right? The method specifically ignores health and depth and generally docks points for non-established talent.
The last issue is basically a Q! and Alexei issue, though CHONE gives Alexei a free pass. Q! gets significantly more scrutiny and the difference is between our own Miguel Cabrera and our own Carlos Guillen. Quentin would have hit for about 45 runs above average had he played a full season last year and is yet projected to hit for 17. That's about 3 wins difference.
Depth is less an issue, but Wilson Betemit can be an adequate 3B/2B type over a full season and that could certainly come into play given the nebulous immediate organizational future there.
And then there's team health. This is within the club's control and something for which it has an excellent reputation. I've talked about Herm Schneider Magic Salve™ as has Nate Silver. And AJ Pierzynski's performance last season compared to the rest of the division serves to illustrate. He's no Mauer, but there are only three catchers in the league over the past three seasons to play more games. Most teams have to make up this difference in games played with replacement level catching. The win difference between a star and average and average and replacement is about the same. And on a team lacking in star power, the implications for marginally better team health are very plain.
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Nice job...
compiling all this. So I guess the White Sox mantra is pitching, pitching, pitching. And then, of course, there is always pride. Won’t it be fun to prove the numbers wrong? Again.
by palehose67 on Mar 16, 2009 8:11 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
U forgot chicago toughness...
So, if I am reading the two options correctly . . .
we can either a) keep dye or b) trade dye . . . is that you Phil Rogers?
by jc2313 on Dec 11, 2008 4:53 PM CST up reply recommended Unrec 1
by Where Triples Go to Die on Mar 16, 2009 9:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would ask...
if Contreras’ toughness battled his pride, which would win?
by palehose67 on Mar 16, 2009 9:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Herm Schneider
...and then some depressed fucked-cake eating.
by homesickalien on Mar 16, 2009 9:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
His achillies
So, if I am reading the two options correctly . . .
we can either a) keep dye or b) trade dye . . . is that you Phil Rogers?
by jc2313 on Dec 11, 2008 4:53 PM CST up reply recommended Unrec 1
by Where Triples Go to Die on Mar 16, 2009 10:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gordon Beckham!!!
Chicago White Sox Examiner — Your what hurts?
by UribeAuction on Mar 16, 2009 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nice wrap-up!
I’m sure you mentioned and I missed it, but can you not project for starting pitching? Although our offense kinda clearly sucks, we could make up some ground with starting pitching.
by onlysoxfaninboston on Mar 16, 2009 8:26 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
that's to come
i’m not totally clear on how i want to do it yet and what i think of pitching projections. so i’m probably going to go on fangraphs for a bit and fiddle with excel to see what it looks like. i’m most interested in comparing aggregate talent, since predicting individual playing time seems rife with guesswork. if you look at the total talent and then look at individual health components, i feel like it’s easier to get a whole picture of the assorted ways the season can play out. with pitching, both aspects seem to me to be harder to assess and more variable, so i want to make sure that’s reflected…but not so much as to not be useful.
how much to the have to pay the Players -- that's what she said -- of the league like BA?
by colintj on Mar 16, 2009 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
we could just link to this
http://www.drivelinemechanics.com/2009/3/16/797625/division-by-division-2009
Twitter: @SouthSideCheat
The Cheat on Facebook
by The Cheat on Mar 16, 2009 1:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i was going to
i’m glad he’s already gone through and figured out the Tango method. it seems a little convoluted to me, so i’m not sure how much i like the outcome though.
how much to the have to pay the Players -- that's what she said -- of the league like BA?
by colintj on Mar 16, 2009 1:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
he's only up to the AL W, fwiw
how much to the have to pay the Players -- that's what she said -- of the league like BA?
by colintj on Mar 16, 2009 1:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Espectacular, Colin.
"I am not going out like SSH. "
by WTGTD, 12/3/08
by ballyb on Mar 16, 2009 8:48 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Awesomeness, ctj. Thanks for doing this.
...and then some depressed fucked-cake eating.
by homesickalien on Mar 16, 2009 9:05 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Your comment....nice. Javy pitch like he's worth $37million? They must assume he's only going to be pitching in low-pressure games.
...and then some depressed fucked-cake eating.
by homesickalien on Mar 16, 2009 9:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or only the first 5 innings of every game
by jc2313 on Mar 16, 2009 9:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or only the first 5 innings of every game in which Atlanta's offense scores 10 or more runs.
fixed.
...and then some depressed fucked-cake eating.
by homesickalien on Mar 16, 2009 9:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
so what's the over/under at for javy's arm falling off?
boone’s?
by larry on Mar 16, 2009 10:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not sure about Javy, he'll probaby get stomach ulcers first
I know that Boone’s arm is safe or will fall off in AAA after he is demoted April 29th.
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
by BobbySouthSide on Mar 16, 2009 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Depends on how well-oiled McDowell keeps him, I suppose.
Even el mago de Oz couldn’t help that gaping hole in his chest though.
...and then some depressed fucked-cake eating.
by homesickalien on Mar 16, 2009 12:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
hey at least his manager will have an excuse to yank him early in the NL...
So, if I am reading the two options correctly . . .
we can either a) keep dye or b) trade dye . . . is that you Phil Rogers?
by jc2313 on Dec 11, 2008 4:53 PM CST up reply recommended Unrec 1
by Where Triples Go to Die on Mar 16, 2009 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks for these Colin!
Nice Work
"...and when it comes to baseball, we have two favorite clubs: the Go-Go White Sox...and whoever plays the Cubs!!!"
by 815Sox on Mar 16, 2009 9:34 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Amen, brotha'.
The most interesting player (and the one with basically no shot of winning the job) is Gordon Beckham, a 2008 first-rounder selected out of Georgia. The 22 year-old rated as Chicago’s #1 prospect and is considered a highly-polished offensive player. Even with an admittedly mild cast of characters vying for the second base position, Beckham should return to the minors and hone his craft for a year. There’s no sense in rushing a guy with 58 official at-bats to the majors at the expense of his long-term development.
...and then some depressed fucked-cake eating.
by homesickalien on Mar 16, 2009 11:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also the fact that if Gordon
starts the year on the big league club we lose an arbitration year with him. Same mess with Longoria last year?
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
by BobbySouthSide on Mar 16, 2009 11:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
has anybody else brought this up, are you sure about this?
by onlysoxfaninboston on Mar 16, 2009 11:31 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
he means the sox potentially lose a year of paying him the minimum and he gets another year of arbitration (4 v 3). see below for explanation.
A player with three or more years of service, but less than six years, may file for salary arbitration. In addition, a player can be classified as a “Super Two” and be eligible for arbitration with less than three years of service. A player with at least two but less than three years of Major League service shall be eligible for salary arbitration if he has accumulated at least 86 days of service during the immediately preceding season and he ranks in the top 17 percent in total service in the class of Players who have at least two but less than three years of Major League service, however accumulated, but with at least 86 days of service accumulated during the immediately preceding season.
by larry on Mar 16, 2009 11:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
86 days...
I thought it was closer to a month. Thanks for the clarification. So at a minimum we probably won’t see GB until the end of June…
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
by BobbySouthSide on Mar 16, 2009 11:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, I did read it wrong.
Thanks.
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
by BobbySouthSide on Mar 16, 2009 11:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I love these simple MLB rules designed to lubricate the free market trade in professional athletes
athletes
I want a strawberry spinke
by hoodlight on Mar 16, 2009 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
why not, we've seen him play in spring training, this kid belongs in the big leagues now
by onlysoxfaninboston on Mar 16, 2009 11:31 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well first of all.......
;)
...and then some depressed fucked-cake eating.
by homesickalien on Mar 16, 2009 11:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I forget how young this site is . . .
Watching Beckham must be similar to seeing your first pair of tits for most of you guys. Amazing what a real prospect can do . . . like hit AA pitching in Spring Training.
by jc2313 on Mar 16, 2009 12:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
pssst
osfib is joking
But Frank Thomas was always his own guy, he always lived by some sort of code that wasn’t especially clear to anyone but him.
by U-God on Mar 16, 2009 12:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Clearly, no more sarcasm outta you, OSFIB!
This is the second occasion in less than two days, I think. :)
...and then some depressed fucked-cake eating.
by homesickalien on Mar 16, 2009 12:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
indicators
above the waist means the next sign is real
except the cap, which means its wiped.
“clearly” means suicide sarcasm
I'm like a laser, six-string razor. I've got a mouth like an alligator
by Nordhagen on Mar 16, 2009 12:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
don't worry, i'm banning myself from future music threads
by onlysoxfaninboston on Mar 16, 2009 12:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
(Maybe the 3rd time is the charm here...)
(Clears typing throat.)
OSFIB, THANK YOU FOR THE BOOK. IT ARRIVED FRIDAY.
the post wasn't for you. fuck off.
by larry on Feb 10, 2009 12:43 PM EST
by winningugly on Mar 16, 2009 12:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, that was in reference for WVU whooping Pitt's ass in the third meeting...
by onlysoxfaninboston on Mar 16, 2009 1:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or Purdue kicking U of I's tail after losing twice to them this year.
EAT IT, U-GOD!
the post wasn't for you. fuck off.
by larry on Feb 10, 2009 12:43 PM EST
by winningugly on Mar 16, 2009 2:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Probably for the better, ya indie jackass.
...and then some depressed fucked-cake eating.
by homesickalien on Mar 16, 2009 12:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
make that self-hating indie jackass
by onlysoxfaninboston on Mar 16, 2009 2:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Indie? INDIE?
WTF? Have you been outed? OM, did you know this?
the post wasn't for you. fuck off.
by larry on Feb 10, 2009 12:43 PM EST
by winningugly on Mar 16, 2009 2:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i thought i outed myself a couple years ago?
by onlysoxfaninboston on Mar 16, 2009 3:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
and it was faaaaaaaaaaaaaaabulous!
(( snap ))
I don’t want my beer to taste like fruit or honey. I want pussy to taste that way.
by thatshortkid on Mar 16, 2009 3:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not before last year -
you’d asked me to keep it on the down-low when I sent you the Che shirt.
Nice job, Valerie Plame.
the post wasn't for you. fuck off.
by larry on Feb 10, 2009 12:43 PM EST
by winningugly on Mar 16, 2009 3:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you trying to trip me aren't you? i don't think it was about race, haha
by onlysoxfaninboston on Mar 16, 2009 3:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It was. It was.
the post wasn't for you. fuck off.
by larry on Feb 10, 2009 12:43 PM EST
by winningugly on Mar 16, 2009 3:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I was originally referring to his enjoyment of "indie rock music." :D You are something, OPOS.
...and then some depressed fucked-cake eating.
by homesickalien on Mar 16, 2009 3:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sure you were.
the post wasn't for you. fuck off.
by larry on Feb 10, 2009 12:43 PM EST
by winningugly on Mar 16, 2009 4:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm so confused right now
Are you an indie Indo?
Confusion breeds success. If they don't know each other, opponents can't have strategy. GENIUS.
by Ozzie Montana on Mar 16, 2009 4:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess I don't have my sarcasm detector on today
but, that doesn’t change my thought since the majority of those that have posted on that topic agree with what he wrote . . .
by jc2313 on Mar 16, 2009 12:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
from what i've seen, pretty much no one
thinks beckham is going to or should be anywhere near this club on opening day.
how much to the have to pay the Players -- that's what she said -- of the league like BA?
by colintj on Mar 16, 2009 12:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i would say the overwhelming majority
i’m sure there are at least a few, but they would rather not make their views known…anonymous poll is the way to validate this assumption
by onlysoxfaninboston on Mar 16, 2009 12:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
not sure if it's overwhelming. but colin isn't clued in to the average white sox fan if he thinks "pretty much no one" is the correct answer.
by larry on Mar 16, 2009 12:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i guess i'd like to think
that there aren’t a ton of “average white sox fans” posting regularly on SSS.
how much to the have to pay the Players -- that's what she said -- of the league like BA?
by colintj on Mar 16, 2009 1:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
he might be right
we are still more into grinders and not flashy young prospects, 05 hangover lingering 4 years and counting…
by LT_sox_fan on Mar 16, 2009 1:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
SSS?
really?
how much to the have to pay the Players -- that's what she said -- of the league like BA?
by colintj on Mar 16, 2009 1:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
lol, yeah colin, why don't you show up here more often
you lazy bum
by LT_sox_fan on Mar 16, 2009 1:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
really . . .
I have been in numerous discussions with posters here about the very idea . . . as has larry.
by jc2313 on Mar 16, 2009 1:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
if you say so.
how much to the have to pay the Players -- that's what she said -- of the league like BA?
by colintj on Mar 16, 2009 1:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
By numerous, you mean like 4 or 5
Because I’ve read the comments from the past few weeks, there aren’t that many people clamoring for Beckham to play in the majors right now.
Confusion breeds success. If they don't know each other, opponents can't have strategy. GENIUS.
by Ozzie Montana on Mar 16, 2009 2:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's enough for me.
and go do something productive, like make some homespun, already. ;)
PS I see that someone bought Gandhi’s possessions for $1.8MM. WTF is that? Who was responsible for allowing that?
the post wasn't for you. fuck off.
by larry on Feb 10, 2009 12:43 PM EST
by winningugly on Mar 16, 2009 3:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought the government had already blocked that auction?
And I am plenty productive, doing my bare-minimum effort for the last 6 weeks of college.
Confusion breeds success. If they don't know each other, opponents can't have strategy. GENIUS.
by Ozzie Montana on Mar 16, 2009 3:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not the govt:
Thursday, March 5th 2009, 11:09 PM
A collection of personal items belonging to Mahatma Gandhi sold for an astonishing $1.8 million at a midtown auction Thursday, but the sale is already mired in a legal battle.
An Indian businessman representing UB Group, a huge conglomerate in Bangalore that owns several breweries and airlines, placed the winning bid.
“I am sure all Indians will be pleased that these Gandhi items will be coming home,” said Tony Bedi after the final gavel at the Antiquorum auction house on Madison Avenue.
the post wasn't for you. fuck off.
by larry on Feb 10, 2009 12:43 PM EST
by winningugly on Mar 16, 2009 3:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm very interested to see what Organizational Ranking we get over at FanGraphs....
They just released #20 today…. I’m guessing 17
It's called Sex Panther by Odeon. It's illegal in nine countries... Yep, it's made with bits of real panther, so you know it's good.
They've done studies, you know. 60% of the time it works, every time.
by ElDiablo on Mar 16, 2009 11:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This lovefest with colin is distasteful.
“Health is something we can control”? WTF? Postulating the numbers show “we kinda suck”? Where are the “pride”, “grindy”, or “chemistry” figures, huh?
Keep working at it.
the post wasn't for you. fuck off.
by larry on Feb 10, 2009 12:43 PM EST
by winningugly on Mar 16, 2009 11:03 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I think pride, grind, and chemistry are offset by small balls.
"I never had sex with that Governor" -
Roland Burris
by Chiburb on Mar 16, 2009 11:15 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought we got rid of those in the off-season.
...and then some depressed fucked-cake eating.
by homesickalien on Mar 16, 2009 11:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
For all you Roubini
knob slobbers . . .
http://finance.yahoo.com/tech-ticker/article/208703/Roubini-Says-Rally-Is-a-22Dead-Cat-Bounce22?tickers=5Edji,5Egspc
by jc2313 on Mar 16, 2009 11:23 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Hey! I resemble that remark!
So, in conclusion and caveat emptor for investors: Dear investors, do enjoy this dead cat bounce and bear market sucker’s rally; most likely most of you will jump the ship as soon as this rally loses its steam; and your attempt to jump ship will make the next round of the bear market bust even faster. Today short-selling covering is leading to a more pronounced bear market rally; at some point in the future the capitulation of investors trying to sell their equities at the peak of the latest bear market rally will make the next round of the bear market bust faster and more pronounced. So, don’t wait too long until you jump ship while the financial Titanic hits the next financial iceberg: you may get squeezed and crashed in the rush to the lifeboats.
Full, wonky analysis here:
"I never had sex with that Governor" -
Roland Burris
by Chiburb on Mar 16, 2009 12:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Couldn't resist: Layman's guide to the stock market...
Just so we’re clear, here’s a helpful guide to the rules of market watching, as they relate to partisan politics:
When the market went down on Bush’s watch before the 2008 elections, this was Bill Clinton’s fault.
When the market went down on Bush’s watch between November 2008 and January 2009, this was Barack Obama’s fault.
When the market went down during Obama’s first seven weeks in office, this was definitely Barack Obama’s fault.
And when the market rallies on Obama’s watch during the second week in March, George W. Bush deserves at least some of the credit.
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2009_03/017299.php
"I never had sex with that Governor" -
Roland Burris
by Chiburb on Mar 16, 2009 12:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is why I find a good amount of the financial analysis obnoxious and somewhat boring
beyond the partisan bickering from both sides, I see the financial ‘media’ in the same way that I see sports media in that they don’t seem to understand the concept of a sample size (or really in general statistical concepts whatsoever, another big one being correlation doesn’t mean causation). “OMG!!!!11111 Stock market up today, that must be because Obama ordered pastrami instead of turkey” seems to be very similar to “Gordon Beckham hitting .400 in 30 ABs in Arizona, let’s make him our leadoff hitter”, no?
(I realize my comment shouldn’t have been borne out of the post I’m responding to but rather is more likely a general critique.)
by CWSKeith on Mar 16, 2009 12:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, here's hoping that Jeb Bush wins
in 2012 then . . . we should be set!
by jc2313 on Mar 16, 2009 12:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The guy who joined Lehman after leaving office and sold Florida a bunch of toxic waste?
Bring him on! Though he does have (last) name recognition…
"I never had sex with that Governor" -
Roland Burris
by Chiburb on Mar 16, 2009 12:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
How did he sell FL a bunch of toxic waste?
You speak about IL, I’ll listen. You speak about FL, I can’t hear you…
the post wasn't for you. fuck off.
by larry on Feb 10, 2009 12:43 PM EST
by winningugly on Mar 16, 2009 12:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
A money scandal with a Bush connection — who would have thought it? Forbes did. Where Was Jeb?:
A government money market debacle unfolding in Florida is raising questions about former governor and presidential brother Jeb Bush’s possible involvement in the mess.
Florida froze withdrawals from a state investment fund earlier this week when local governments withdrew billions of dollars out of concern for the fund’s financial stability.
In the past few days, municipalities have withdrawn roughly $9 billion, nearly a third of the $28 billion fund (which is similar to a money market fund) controlled by the Florida’s State Board of Administration (SBA). The run on the fund was triggered by worries that a percentage of the portfolio contained debt that had defaulted.
A majority of this paper was sold to SBA by Lehman Brothers. Bush, as the state’s top elected official, served on a three-member board that oversaw the SBA until he retired as governor in January. In August, Bush was hired as a consultant to the bank. Lehman spokesperson Kerrie Cohen, speaking on behalf of Bush, said they had no comment and would not say when the bank had sold Florida the paper. SBA did not return calls.
Let’s not jump to conclusions just because it looks bad. But it doesn’t look good.
Only from that Commie rag called “Forbes”:
http://www.forbes.com/2007/11/30/florida-bush-lehman-biz-beltway-cx_mb_1130florida.html
"I never had sex with that Governor" -
Roland Burris
by Chiburb on Mar 16, 2009 1:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
"From an article in Counterpunch: "Jeb Bush left Tallahassee for Miami in January 2007, having served two terms as governor. He incorporated Jeb Bush & Co., and in June was hired as a consultant with Lehman Brothers, the Wall Street investment banking firm.
“Coleman Stipanovich, a Bush loyalist, headed the Florida State Board of Administration, responsible for investing billions of dollars of state funds. Stipanovich’s brother, "Mac”, is a former chief of staff in the governor’s office, Jeb Bush campaign manager, and now partner in the law firm, Fowler White, Boggs-the Tallahassee lobbying whip of the Growth Machine (he is also board member of US Sugar).
"In July and August, Stipanovich approved the purchase of $842 million in securitized mortgage bonds from Lehman.
"Today the value of those bonds is practically zero, vanished in the debt crisis that is tipping the national economy into a recession.
The Miami Herald reports: "The bankruptcy of Lehman Brothers, a prestigious Wall Street firm, will touch Florida’s pension funds and the state-run insurer because both hold its securities.
"The State Board of Administration holds $322 million in Lehman stock and bonds. The SBA manages the state’s employee fund and more than two dozen other funds, including assets for the Florida Hurricane Catastrophe Fund and the Florida Prepaid College Plan.
“Dennis MacKee, a spokesman for the SBA, said the agency has an $84 million unrealized loss on its holdings.”
"I never had sex with that Governor" -
Roland Burris
by Chiburb on Mar 16, 2009 1:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Anyone see Stewart v Cramer
pretty funny
"...and when it comes to baseball, we have two favorite clubs: the Go-Go White Sox...and whoever plays the Cubs!!!"
by 815Sox on Mar 16, 2009 12:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Si.
Sad. Stewart nailed him. Appropriately so.
the post wasn't for you. fuck off.
by larry on Feb 10, 2009 12:43 PM EST
by winningugly on Mar 16, 2009 12:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I almost felt bad for Cramer
I don’t really view him as an “enemy” or anything. He is just a loudmouth that figured out a way to make money. Its almost as if Stewart is giving him more credit then Cramer deserves
"...and when it comes to baseball, we have two favorite clubs: the Go-Go White Sox...and whoever plays the Cubs!!!"
by 815Sox on Mar 16, 2009 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i didn't
Jon made it clear that he was only incidentally the face of the problem. personally, my least favorite part was the audience.
how much to the have to pay the Players -- that's what she said -- of the league like BA?
by colintj on Mar 16, 2009 1:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
They are always the worst part of the show
Confusion breeds success. If they don't know each other, opponents can't have strategy. GENIUS.
by Ozzie Montana on Mar 16, 2009 1:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cramer
took the dry topic of finance and made it entertaining…so what? He’s a blowhard just like Stewart, but Stewart has some big balls calling the guy out, considering Stewart is doing the same “goofing” on politics.
On a side note, Cramer sure caved like a puss.
"A dope trailer is no place for a kitty." - Bubbles (Trailer Park Boys)
by tailgater on Mar 16, 2009 1:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn't really call what Cramer does "entertaining"
but that is just me
"...and when it comes to baseball, we have two favorite clubs: the Go-Go White Sox...and whoever plays the Cubs!!!"
by 815Sox on Mar 16, 2009 1:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
obviously because you're not his target audience.
by larry on Mar 16, 2009 1:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Doesn't really have anything to do with that
But if I’m trying to get informed about this stuff I don’t need some dude yelling and jumping around
"...and when it comes to baseball, we have two favorite clubs: the Go-Go White Sox...and whoever plays the Cubs!!!"
by 815Sox on Mar 16, 2009 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
again, you're certainly not his target audience.
meet some people who actually do trade a lot. guess what most of them are like? some dude yelling and jumping around.
by larry on Mar 16, 2009 2:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not an idiot
I know how many stock traders act, especially when they are on the floor. But again, that has nothing to do with me not liking how Cramer presents his "information’. Its just a personal thing.. no big deal. I just don’t watch his program.
"...and when it comes to baseball, we have two favorite clubs: the Go-Go White Sox...and whoever plays the Cubs!!!"
by 815Sox on Mar 16, 2009 2:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i don't know what you're arguing about here.
you’re a guy in his early twenties who does not actively trade stocks. for what reason would you either watch his show or find it entertaining.
by larry on Mar 16, 2009 2:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
How do you know I don't trade in stocks?
Or have my money in mutual funds. Why does it matter what I do? I am a newshound and try to stay as informed as possible. It is on during my lunch break as well.
My dad has traded in stocks for most of his adult life and he doesn’t watch the show either.
What exactly are you trying to argue? That I am not in his target audience? You are correct on that. All I’m saying is I don’t enjoy his presentation of this information and if I do feel like checking it I look else where.
"...and when it comes to baseball, we have two favorite clubs: the Go-Go White Sox...and whoever plays the Cubs!!!"
by 815Sox on Mar 16, 2009 2:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
oh yeah
I turn 26 in june, so I’m in my mid 20s
"...and when it comes to baseball, we have two favorite clubs: the Go-Go White Sox...and whoever plays the Cubs!!!"
by 815Sox on Mar 16, 2009 2:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Like to argue much?
Fer Chrissakes. Can anyone have a contrary opinion?
the post wasn't for you. fuck off.
by larry on Feb 10, 2009 12:43 PM EST
by winningugly on Mar 16, 2009 2:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
if you have your money in mutal funds, you're also not his target audience.
and how do i know? educated guess. a guy your age who does what you do isn’t exactly one to have a large disposable income. and if you’re trading stocks as heavily as you would need to be to be getting something from watching a show about actively managing your investments, you better be working with disposable money.
this is not a slander on anyone’s economic situation or something. to be doing what cramer suggests a person following his advice should be doing, it ain’t gonna be you or me watching the show. we’ve got jobs that aren’t financial and take up way too much of our time to be doing stock picking very well.
and, christ, cramer’s is not a news show. stock picking is not news. this is precisely why stewart was saying on his show that cramer wasn’t quite the right person from cnbc to be getting a dressing down.
by larry on Mar 16, 2009 2:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Point taken
I gotta pay attention now anyways
"...and when it comes to baseball, we have two favorite clubs: the Go-Go White Sox...and whoever plays the Cubs!!!"
by 815Sox on Mar 16, 2009 2:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And if you want to learn about investing you don't listen to Cramer.
He’s about “buy/sell/hold” almost as much as the traders on CNBC’s “Fast Money”. He couches it in “here’s how you select a stock” or “I’m all about making you money” or “I’m all about saving you money”. To say he was not partiaally responsible – and trying to effect influence with the Fed – is disingenuous. He was screaming like a girl when the Fed would not bail out the banks. He was screaming like a girl when the Fed wasn’t lowering interest rates fast enough. Conversely, he was quiet as a lamb when his picks were getting pulverized (and he suggested pulling 5 YEARS of monthly expenses out of the market – the first real bit of financial advice he’s ever given).
He was as good a target as anyone. Greenspan would’ve been better, Paulson too, but Cramer is the face of the “anyone can do this if they listen to me” investing culture.
the post wasn't for you. fuck off.
by larry on Feb 10, 2009 12:43 PM EST
by winningugly on Mar 16, 2009 2:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd just like to be in my mid-20s again
Lucky bastards.
(Not financially, however).
"A dope trailer is no place for a kitty." - Bubbles (Trailer Park Boys)
by tailgater on Mar 16, 2009 2:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yup.
My joints would feel better. (Insert sophomoric joke here.) No need for Glucosamine in your 20’s.
the post wasn't for you. fuck off.
by larry on Feb 10, 2009 12:43 PM EST
by winningugly on Mar 16, 2009 2:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
or Cialis, right WU?!
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
by BobbySouthSide on Mar 16, 2009 2:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You are a one-trick pony, Roberto.
the post wasn't for you. fuck off.
by larry on Feb 10, 2009 12:43 PM EST
by winningugly on Mar 16, 2009 2:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Very True
If you having to watch a television show to give you ideas on how to do your job you are probably in trouble.
Like I said, Stewart is giving the guy too much credit IMO.
"...and when it comes to baseball, we have two favorite clubs: the Go-Go White Sox...and whoever plays the Cubs!!!"
by 815Sox on Mar 16, 2009 2:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
well, i know that there's a bit of disingenuity surrounding how his show is advertised and how he presents things sometimes.
but there is like a 700 word disclaimer on before and probably after his show. the show is obviously about stock picking and moving in and out of stocks. it’s a game. or a hobby. anyone who is playing such a game should know well enough what the game is and what the risks are.
i find the so-called journalists and reporters to be far more culpable in this. perhaps that’s just me. i know an opinion when i see it. and i know bullshit when i see it. most people, i think, need a bit to see the difference. and cnbc, for example, presents their interviews and stories as being journalism when it is something less than that (and, i would point out, cnbc or business news stations aren’t the only ones who are culpable in doing less than full investigation – anyone remember the reporting about the iraq war? those political journalists were sure digging deep).
by larry on Mar 16, 2009 2:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
One would think
any smart investor would 1) hire a reputable stock broker that knows his/her investment goals, wealth and situation to give advice on individual stocks or 2) get all the facts themselves to make educated decisions on their investment portfolio. NOT to listen to some guy on TV telling them what to buy and sell.
Wasn’t it proven not too long ago that the WSJ Monkey and dartboard beat the majority of these so called “experts”??
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
by BobbySouthSide on Mar 16, 2009 2:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah.
the post wasn't for you. fuck off.
by larry on Feb 10, 2009 12:43 PM EST
by winningugly on Mar 16, 2009 2:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You are a tad more sophisticated and cynical than most,
so I’d expect you to be able to discern “fluff” from “objective information”, but most folks believe what they see/hear on the airwaves. If you heard how many of my clients in the “bull” phase of the markets ask about his recommendations (and they are serious) you’d know the disclaimers don’t help. People still smoke cigarettes, too, despite the warning labels.
Ah, investor psychology, a fascinating subject.
the post wasn't for you. fuck off.
by larry on Feb 10, 2009 12:43 PM EST
by winningugly on Mar 16, 2009 2:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
sure.
i’ve got the money that i dabble with. i’m guessing your clients are of the sort that can dabble with some of their money, too. i don’t see cramer being advertised as a suzie orman style money guru for all. he’s talking about picking individual stocks/commodities with a huge disclaimer. if people aren’t smart enough to figure out what’s going on when a massive disclaimer is tossed in front of them, so what. that’s on them. it’s stock picking, not journalism.
by larry on Mar 16, 2009 2:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, but he gets serious enough occasionally to comment
“humbly”. and maybe it’s because I’m in Flori-duh, but way, way too many people thought of him as almost gospel. Sad to say.
Frankly, CNBC giving him so much air time was more of the problem.
the post wasn't for you. fuck off.
by larry on Feb 10, 2009 12:43 PM EST
by winningugly on Mar 16, 2009 3:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well that is a problem with many people
Not just in the US either. Quite a few people just do not seem to possess the ability to analyze something
"...and when it comes to baseball, we have two favorite clubs: the Go-Go White Sox...and whoever plays the Cubs!!!"
by 815Sox on Mar 16, 2009 3:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i realize all of that.
maybe it’s an incorrect distinction to draw – he’s obviously a cheerleader – but i think there’s a pretty large difference between a guy who is doing a stock picking show with a huge disclaimer being a cheerleader and a “journalist” being a cheerleader.
i mean, stewart going after a show like fast money – which is even more obviously a niche show than cramer’s – is just a waste of time. focus on the real problem – the shoddy journalism, not the shoddy talking heads.
by larry on Mar 16, 2009 3:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Huge difference.
Doesn’t matter. Serious people are discerning. Too many (how many knuckleheads have too much debt?) pay no attention to the disclaimers.
Caveat emptor, of course, but the “follow the loudest voice” mentality sure has been stoked by Messr. Cramer and his buddies at CNBC.
the post wasn't for you. fuck off.
by larry on Feb 10, 2009 12:43 PM EST
by winningugly on Mar 16, 2009 3:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Stewart alluded to that in the "interview"
I don’t know the whole of the situation but Cramer appeared to be the fall guy, the low-hanging fruit or whatever. Not that he’s perfect but there are bigger fish to fry.
… and I don’t mean that as a shot at Stewart, either. In the interview Stewart says (in various ways) that Cramer ’wasn’t alone’ and that it’s about a ‘bigger picture’ of what went wrong, which I completely agree with.
by CWSKeith on Mar 16, 2009 4:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
There are a host of sophisticated traders who make a killing off the irrationality of people who buy single stocks.
Just buy an index fund and don’t worry about it. Stocks are a long run investment, not a vehicle for getting rich in the long run.
Yawn.
by reardenmettle on Mar 16, 2009 3:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I actually think finance is pretty interesting.
But.. Carmer can make it pretty painful
by Grinder in Training on Mar 16, 2009 2:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yup
That is my point, don’t know why Larry is freaking out so bad about me not liking his “style”. Maybe he just feels like picking and arguement as usual. :P
"...and when it comes to baseball, we have two favorite clubs: the Go-Go White Sox...and whoever plays the Cubs!!!"
by 815Sox on Mar 16, 2009 2:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
larry's point is accurate
You aren’t the target audience, so why would you find it entertaining? My wife watches stupid shit on HGTV that I find incredibly boring . . . but that shouldn’t be surprising since I am not the target audience.
by jc2313 on Mar 16, 2009 2:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not really
Just because I’m not in the target auidence of something doesn’t mean that a person should or should not enjoy it. Should I not listen to a type of music because its older?
My point is that Cramer’s presentation is not something I like.. I choose to look elsewhere to get the information should I need it.
"...and when it comes to baseball, we have two favorite clubs: the Go-Go White Sox...and whoever plays the Cubs!!!"
by 815Sox on Mar 16, 2009 2:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
money is overrated
good health, lots of friends, enough to go out for a drink and someone daft enough to sleep with you are all you need for a happy life
I want a strawberry spinke
by hoodlight on Mar 16, 2009 2:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
food is important too.
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
by BobbySouthSide on Mar 16, 2009 2:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
of course you're american
I forget sometimes
I want a strawberry spinke
by hoodlight on Mar 16, 2009 2:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nookie?
Yeah, I’m in the game.
the post wasn't for you. fuck off.
by larry on Feb 10, 2009 12:43 PM EST
by winningugly on Mar 16, 2009 2:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Brits don't eat?
How the hell do your teeth get so rotten then?
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
by BobbySouthSide on Mar 16, 2009 2:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The taste is not important to Brits.
Haggis? Kidney pie? Fer Chrissakes.
the post wasn't for you. fuck off.
by larry on Feb 10, 2009 12:43 PM EST
by winningugly on Mar 16, 2009 2:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
don't forget
spotted dick
"...and when it comes to baseball, we have two favorite clubs: the Go-Go White Sox...and whoever plays the Cubs!!!"
by 815Sox on Mar 16, 2009 2:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
not seen that since school lol
I want a strawberry spinke
by hoodlight on Mar 16, 2009 2:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I never tried it when I was over there
Our School made it as a joke, and I remember seeing it served in some of the more touristy places
"...and when it comes to baseball, we have two favorite clubs: the Go-Go White Sox...and whoever plays the Cubs!!!"
by 815Sox on Mar 16, 2009 3:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
they shove everything in a pie
http://www.allbritishfood.com/british20pie20recipes.php
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
by BobbySouthSide on Mar 16, 2009 2:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
pies are good
four and twenty blackbirds and all that
I want a strawberry spinke
by hoodlight on Mar 16, 2009 2:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I remember wanting a hotdog at a soccer match
and having to settle for a meatpie..
anyways I don’t mind most British food, it wasn’t great but it would hit the spot if it was cold and rainy.
The Indian food is way better over there as well
"...and when it comes to baseball, we have two favorite clubs: the Go-Go White Sox...and whoever plays the Cubs!!!"
by 815Sox on Mar 16, 2009 3:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
HUH?
“hit the spot if it was cold and rainy.”
I didn’t know food tasted better based on precipitation and the temperature outside.
Let me contact Tom Skilling to add that to his 20-minute weather segment.
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
by BobbySouthSide on Mar 16, 2009 3:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
it's like most places I guess
we aren’t very good at fast food so it tends to colour peoples impressions who visit here, %90 of fast food is disgusting here, remember for most of the year it’s a wet and cold island so most of the nicer stuff takes a lot longer to cook and you wouldn’t see it for sale on the street.
I want a strawberry spinke
by hoodlight on Mar 16, 2009 3:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
it's steak and kidney pie
you lot don’t eat offal, you’re missing out, it’s very tasty
I want a strawberry spinke
by hoodlight on Mar 16, 2009 2:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I found an odd parallel between baseball/media/steroids in their discussion
Stewart attacked Cramer as part of the media for not protecting the public with incisive reporting.
I almost felt like he could have been saying the same things to Selig or any one of the HOF voters who suddenly feel like protectors of the gate when they didn’t feel the need to be protectors of the game 15 years ago.
And I don’t want to get off on some steroid tangent, because I really don’t give two shits about it, haven’t for years, but I would love to see somebody take down one of the holier than thou baseball figures in the same way.
Twitter: @SouthSideCheat
The Cheat on Facebook
by The Cheat on Mar 16, 2009 2:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Holier than thou. e.g?
the post wasn't for you. fuck off.
by larry on Feb 10, 2009 12:43 PM EST
by winningugly on Mar 16, 2009 2:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Anyone who refuses to vote for steroids era baseballers for the HOF
as a protector of the gate… Where the fuck were you 15 years ago? You had access, you have a pulpit, what the fuck were you doing? How can you be righteous about it now?
Twitter: @SouthSideCheat
The Cheat on Facebook
by The Cheat on Mar 16, 2009 2:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
good fucking question
sucking on sammy’s knob i guess.
by Hatchetm on Mar 16, 2009 3:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, I'd buy that.
the post wasn't for you. fuck off.
by larry on Feb 10, 2009 12:43 PM EST
by winningugly on Mar 16, 2009 3:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I object to the title of this post, Colin.
It is not conclusive of anything (that’s why they play the games).
It is, however, comprehensive.
Yawn.
by reardenmettle on Mar 16, 2009 11:29 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
it was tongue in cheek
how much to the have to pay the Players -- that's what she said -- of the league like BA?
by colintj on Mar 16, 2009 11:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You forget that I do not have a sense of humor.
Yawn.
by reardenmettle on Mar 16, 2009 12:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am shock.
Your sig portends all kinds of excitement.
the post wasn't for you. fuck off.
by larry on Feb 10, 2009 12:43 PM EST
by winningugly on Mar 16, 2009 12:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i think you just forget that others do
how much to the have to pay the Players -- that's what she said -- of the league like BA?
by colintj on Mar 16, 2009 1:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
In this economic climate, it is certainly reasonable to expect that everyone is serious all the time.
Yawn.
by reardenmettle on Mar 16, 2009 1:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not everyone is scared witless or doing horribly.
Man up.
the post wasn't for you. fuck off.
by larry on Feb 10, 2009 12:43 PM EST
by winningugly on Mar 16, 2009 1:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
maybe instead of "certainly" I should have written "clearly"
One word really makes a difference :)
Yawn.
by reardenmettle on Mar 16, 2009 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
programming reminder
2pm (central) webcast of the game. be sure to choose “wide” view.
by larry on Mar 16, 2009 11:31 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
would that be considered the "Liz" view?
It's called Sex Panther by Odeon. It's illegal in nine countries... Yep, it's made with bits of real panther, so you know it's good.
They've done studies, you know. 60% of the time it works, every time.
by ElDiablo on Mar 16, 2009 11:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
who's Liz?
"I never had sex with that Governor" -
Roland Burris
by Chiburb on Mar 16, 2009 11:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
WU's 4th Ex-wive
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
by BobbySouthSide on Mar 16, 2009 12:06 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Flagged for inaccuracy and lies.
I have 3 ex-wives. My current wife is still my wife.
the post wasn't for you. fuck off.
by larry on Feb 10, 2009 12:43 PM EST
by winningugly on Mar 16, 2009 12:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
but, her name is Liz, right?!
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
by BobbySouthSide on Mar 16, 2009 12:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If we were "friends" you'd know her name, Robert.
the post wasn't for you. fuck off.
by larry on Feb 10, 2009 12:43 PM EST
by winningugly on Mar 16, 2009 12:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
My mother called me Robert once, ONCE.
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
by BobbySouthSide on Mar 16, 2009 12:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What happened, pray tell?
the post wasn't for you. fuck off.
by larry on Feb 10, 2009 12:43 PM EST
by winningugly on Mar 16, 2009 12:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Johnny Dangerously
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
by BobbySouthSide on Mar 16, 2009 1:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Besides, WU's wife couldn't be as big as Liz...
She’s got the perfect Jewish home:
10 rooms, no kitchen or bedroom!
Right, WU?
"I never had sex with that Governor" -
Roland Burris
by Chiburb on Mar 16, 2009 12:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Today’s Lineup vs. KC
Wise 8, Lillibridge 6, Kroeger 7, Konerko 3, Fields 5, Restovich 9, Allen dh, Getz 4, Miller 2. Colon pitching (likely to go one inning).
http://whitesoxpride.mlblogs.com/archives/2009/03/monday_morning_in_arizona.html
by larry on Mar 16, 2009 12:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
1/3 of the Twins' total is from Mauer.
Though Redmond hitting against Buehrle is probably worth another 5-10 wins.
Also, how does this change if (as expected) Beckham starts the season at every position for the Sox?
by The Actual El Guapo on Mar 16, 2009 11:57 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
the games would never end
innings can’t end when your OBP is 1.000
But Frank Thomas was always his own guy, he always lived by some sort of code that wasn’t especially clear to anyone but him.
by U-God on Mar 16, 2009 12:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This Twins run over the past decade
has been a national nightmare. Will someone not named Morneau or Mauer have a huge statistical year for the Twins? The rest of Baseball should licking their lips for Wieters to get called up just so we can stop fawning all over Joe Mauer. The Twins just annoy the hell out of me.
by jobe on Feb 13, 2009 1:00 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
...and then some depressed fucked-cake eating.
by homesickalien on Mar 16, 2009 12:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
My fantasy team needs Wieters to have a decent season as well.
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
by BobbySouthSide on Mar 16, 2009 12:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
jobe?
elbow surgeon or magician featured in Poof magazine?
I'm like a laser, six-string razor. I've got a mouth like an alligator
by Nordhagen on Mar 16, 2009 12:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Please, Mister Nordy...
Illusionist
...and then some depressed fucked-cake eating.
by homesickalien on Mar 16, 2009 12:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
NOW you show up.
Friday the 13th’s threads BEGGED for recaps. And you were nowhere to be found.
the post wasn't for you. fuck off.
by larry on Feb 10, 2009 12:43 PM EST
by winningugly on Mar 16, 2009 12:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
nomination for worst idea of the day
White Sox: No one stepped forward in the battle to become the backup catcher. A.J. Pierzynski remains the player the Sox could least afford to lose to injury. The Sox should find a way to put together a serious offer for Ivan Rodriguez, who would be an immediate upgrade assuming he and Pierzynski could co-exist. Rodriguez could play 80-plus games by getting two a week at catcher and two a week at designated hitter, lightening the load on Jim Thome.
here’s a clue, phil: guys who can’t crack league average in the OPS department don’t belong at DH. ever. it’s designated hitter, not designated make poor offensive player happy.
by larry on Mar 16, 2009 12:44 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
"Serious" offer.
Meaning, “Open the wallet!”.
Phil. Stop. Making. No. Sense.
the post wasn't for you. fuck off.
by larry on Feb 10, 2009 12:43 PM EST
by winningugly on Mar 16, 2009 12:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
honestly, i'd bet it isn't so much about the money for ivan.
he wants to play full time, or close to it. phil is probably right that someone would need to guarantee him 4-5 starts a week. however, that doesn’t mean 1) any team should do that or 2) that team should be the white sox.
by larry on Mar 16, 2009 12:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So when he says "serious offer" you think Phil
is referring to “contractual (verbal or written) playing time” vs. $?
You think he thinks that far ahead? I’d love to see Pudge in a PT role as C. But I agree – as a PT DH he’d be a disaster.
the post wasn't for you. fuck off.
by larry on Feb 10, 2009 12:43 PM EST
by winningugly on Mar 16, 2009 12:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
well, i won't speak for phil.
you may be right. but offering $500K or something is saying two things; first, we don’t want to pay you much but also that part of the reason the offer is so low is that we don’t expect you to be anything more than a bit player.
by larry on Mar 16, 2009 12:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Worst case scenario
AJ pulls a hammy in the middle of May. What do we do?
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
by BobbySouthSide on Mar 16, 2009 1:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
tyler flowers, according to the organization.
by larry on Mar 16, 2009 1:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess I don't feel too bad about that
everything I’ve read says he needs another year in the minors, but worse case as long as he’s playing everyday I am okay with it.
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
by BobbySouthSide on Mar 16, 2009 1:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
the assertion that AJ is the player the team could least afford to lose is quite silly.
it’s not that hard to figure out the performance drop between player x and backup y. aj just isn’t good enough to have the gap to replacement level (i’d say more likely to be cole than tyler) be that large. i mean, think of the gap between quentin and wise.
by larry on Mar 16, 2009 1:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agree, and doesn't it really depend on how long the starter is out?
Even Q’s loss for an entire month meant a difference of 1-2 wins, right?
"I never had sex with that Governor" -
Roland Burris
by Chiburb on Mar 16, 2009 1:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
well, no, q probably isn't worth quite that much.
maybe close to a win. and, sure, length is one of the key determining factors.
by larry on Mar 16, 2009 1:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd bet otherwise.
Old argument, but we held onto a playoff spot without Q. I’m not sure Cole/T-Flow would handle themselves as well as Wise did spelling for Q.
However, your point from last year (a month ain’t a big deal, a season is) is taken. I just like AJ behind the dish and don’t like any of our other options this year. (Or any year since 2005.)
the post wasn't for you. fuck off.
by larry on Feb 10, 2009 12:43 PM EST
by winningugly on Mar 16, 2009 1:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
bet whatever you want. even if you want to tell me that the replacement for aj is well below replacement, it's still quentin. superstar players are going to cost you way more than average players when they're gone.
this is elementary. and it’s not like the white sox have an outfielder who is decent hanging around. two replacement levelish outfielders are fighting for a spot on the team which will have them starting quite a few games.
by larry on Mar 16, 2009 1:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wise and Anderson consider that a compliment, larry.
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
by BobbySouthSide on Mar 16, 2009 1:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
let's keep up.
BA has a spot on the team already
by larry on Mar 16, 2009 1:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
so does Wise???
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
by BobbySouthSide on Mar 16, 2009 1:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So the sox would cut him and eat the $550k salary?
I think when he signed the guaranteed contract, that basically gave him a spot on the roster.
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
by BobbySouthSide on Mar 16, 2009 1:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If he's cut before the season...
we don’t owe him the entire salary, right? Can someone confirm this, please.
by palehose67 on Mar 16, 2009 2:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
correct. there's a date certain where if he's cut he'd be owed i believe it's 20%.
by larry on Mar 16, 2009 2:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not bad...
for playing a game in the Arizona sun for a month and a half, but still not an entire year’s salary.
by palehose67 on Mar 16, 2009 2:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have never heard of this?
Unless there was something written specifically in an individual contract?
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
by BobbySouthSide on Mar 16, 2009 2:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
that's what happens when you sign a player eligible to arbitration to a contract.
we talked about this quite a few times w/r/t crede last year. this is another reason that guys are reticent to take arbitration when they are offered it as free agents – the contract they get in arbitration is not guaranteed.
by larry on Mar 16, 2009 2:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Now I'm confused (not hard to do)
Wise was arbitration eligible after 08. The Sox agreed to a $550k contract with him and did not go to arbitration. Are you saying since he was Arb. Eligible that his contract is non-guaranteed?
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
by BobbySouthSide on Mar 16, 2009 2:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm sure I'll get a good pouncing for suggesting this, but I agree with WU. Maybe not our most costly of losses, but way the hell up there.
It’s hard for me to agree with these points when you are looking at how players are “worth wins” or whatever. And most of you know already, I don’t buy into all the statistical stuff.
It could be argued that Q’s absence cost the team more than simply 1 or 2 wins. A team that held first place for the majority of the season (if not exclusively since mid-May, iirc) turned into a team that could hardly hang on to first place by their fingernails; almost immediately upon Q’s removal from the lineup.
AJ may not be the best catcher statistically-speaking, but consider his presence and knowledge of our division with the fact that an established catcher alone carries enormous value…he runs the whole field, knows our pitchers inside and out (as well as opposing batters), and contributes in ways that we all have seen “only AJ can.”
Honestly, losing AJ would be a huge blow.
Aaaaannnnnd….pounce!
...and then some depressed fucked-cake eating.
by homesickalien on Mar 16, 2009 2:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Umm, Pudge is hitting
like .625 in the WBC . . . projected over the whole season that would be like hitting .625 which is probably a record. He is also on pace for 81 HRs . . . pretty sure that would be a record too!
Also, that would be a +1 for the Sox . . . you can’t argue with adding a player.
by jc2313 on Mar 16, 2009 12:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
in case anyone cares, supposedly the astros are the leading candidate to sign him.
makes some sense, considering he would potentially be an upgrade. however, giving up on towles so soon…well, it is houston.
by larry on Mar 16, 2009 12:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
and the deal is done: $1.5M with another $1.5M in potential incentives.
by larry on Mar 16, 2009 1:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
dantesox response in 3...2...1...
the post wasn't for you. fuck off.
by larry on Feb 10, 2009 12:43 PM EST
by winningugly on Mar 16, 2009 1:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I never campaigned for pudge.
He’d have been alright at about a million or so…I’d still like to see them make a deal for someone who could coexist with Pierzynski and doesn’t care if he only plays once or twice a week….better than Miller or Stewart or….
by dantesox on Mar 16, 2009 2:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
But, yeah....
if he’d have come here for a mil or a bit more, I’d have given it to him and told AJ to live with it.
by dantesox on Mar 16, 2009 2:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pudge would be a nice addition for about 1.5 million
as the twice a week at most backup catcher. Never playing DH, never plays 1B. Just backup catcher.
by madvillian on Mar 16, 2009 1:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I say convert Jerry Owens to catcher
Think of the upgrade in speed and bat handling.
I was going to mail the idea to Phil but ‘m guessing he won’t go for a non-traditional lefty-lefty platoon.
by hitlesswonder on Mar 16, 2009 3:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know you kid, but It's not quite a traditional lefty-lefty platoon anyway.
AJ bats left, but throws right, non?
Owens bats and throws left.
Left-handed throwing catcher = traditionally no bueno…
It is Owens, though….so who knows of what he is capable!
...and then some depressed fucked-cake eating.
by homesickalien on Mar 16, 2009 3:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
ah...you said "non-traditional." I is illiterate.
...and then some depressed fucked-cake eating.
by homesickalien on Mar 16, 2009 3:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Joe Crede today.
Crede 3 / 3, 1-2B, 1-HR.
"I am not going out like SSH. "
by WTGTD, 12/3/08
by ballyb on Mar 16, 2009 2:32 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Good fer Joe
If he hadn’t joined the enemy and teamed with Satan (Punto), I would be a little more excited for the guy.
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
by BobbySouthSide on Mar 16, 2009 2:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Will Beckham make the 2009 25 man roster then?
hoodlight’s poll
1) yes
2) no
3) we trade him for the guy from the National League who ends up winning the MVP
remember your opinion is worthless
I want a strawberry spinke
by hoodlight on Mar 16, 2009 3:35 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
What happened to anonymity, ya silly Brit??
...and then some depressed fucked-cake eating.
by homesickalien on Mar 16, 2009 3:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
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