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Building a Better Projection: Gavin Floyd

We've taken a bit of a break from our community projection series as I hired on some new editors to a mid-4 figure sum using some Verizon Math. 340x_medium Seriously though, they're cranking out some quality content, which leaves more of my non-scat porn viewing time to tackle some meatier posts myself. I should have out-sourced the front page content to India years ago.

Part of the reason I started the community projections a few years ago, aside from trying to fill the dead period in February, was to harness the community's knowledge of things that projection systems don't know. We nailed Joe Crede's projection a few years ago because we believed he was a slightly different hitter after he hit the video booth when he broke his finger. And even though Gavin Floyd and John Danks beat our projections last year, we came far closer to their actual numbers than any of the computer-based systems.

There are times when human input can be invaluable in a projection. That's not to say I think that a large-scale wisdom of crowds style projection system, sort of like Tango does with his fielding project, would be more accurate than say PECOTA. Computers will continue to crank out the most reliable projections around. But on an individual, case-by-case basis there are gains to be made by applying a human element to a computer model. I believe Gavin Floyd is one such case.

Understanding Projection Systems

Star-divide

Before we can dive into building our own educated guess of a projection, before we can answer the age old question Why does PECOTA hate White Sox pitching?, we need to understand the basics nuts and bolts of a simple projection system.

In their most basic form, Marcels for instance, projections are simply a weighted average of a player's past performance. They can get substantially more advanced than that, adding aging curves, influence from players with similar profiles, and other sabermetric principles (BABIP, FIP, etc.).

From a pitching standpoint, projection systems don't go straight from "A" (last year's performance) to "Z" (next year's projected ERA). There are stops in between, namely projecting the pitcher-controlled stats (K, BB, HR, HBP).

PECOTA doesn't hate the White Sox, or Gavin Floyd in particular. What projection systems really love in pitchers are guys who maintain good groundball rates (suppressing homeruns), high strikeout rates, and low walk rates. Aside from Jack Egbert, the White Sox simply don't have anyone who fits that bill, although John Danks is trying to make the jump.

Applying Our Knowledge to Floyd

Now that we (vaguely) know how projection systems arrive at their final destination, let's use our knowledge of Floyd, the post-Philly Floyd, to make a more educated projection of our own.

First, let's take a look at Floyd's 2008. As we all know, his first 9 starts yielded good results on the scoreboard, but his method (27BB/25K) wasn't one that was sustainable. Over his final 24 starts, however, his method (1 HR/G, K/BB ratio of about 3) was one that figured to produce major league success. It's a bit ironic that when Floyd started pitching like a major league pitcher he was less effective at preventing runs than over his first 9 starts. In fact, the 4.20 ERA over those 24 starts doesn't even accurately capture his run prevention, as he allowed a whopping 16 unearned runs over those starts to raise his RA to a not-so-pretty 5.17.

Gavin Floyd's 2008

G IP H R ER HR BB K ERA WHIP K/9 BB/9 HR/9
First 9 starts 9 58.1 36 22 19 6 27 25 2.93 1.08 3.86 4.17 0.93
Last 24 starts 24 148 154 85 69 24 43 120 4.20 1.33 7.30 2.61 1.46
Total 33 206.1 190 107 88 30 70 145 3.84 1.26 6.32 3.05 1.31

Some might look at those above stats and wonder what type of pitcher they have. I know if I hadn't watched the season myself, I wouldn't know what to make of those two radically different styles. The obvious way to answer such a question is to go back and look at his past performance.

In his stay at AAA in '07 Floyd posted a K/BB ratio of a little below 3 and a K/9 of 8.1. Those are numbers that figured to translate to moderate major league success. And we finally started to see some of that success over his final six major league starts (labeled September call-up), posting peripherals remarkably similar to those over his final 24 starts in '08.

If you look at the peripherals from all these columns there should be one set of numbers that sticks out. One of these things is not like the others. For the purposes of our projection, I'm all but eliminating Floyds first 8 starts form my mind. They happened, but they don't exactly carry the type of repeatable performance that will help us create an accurate projection.

Gavin Floyd's 2007

G IP H R ER HR BB K ERA WHIP K/9 BB/9 HR/9
AAA 17 106.2 93 39 37 9 35 96 3.12 1.20 8.10 2.95 0.76
September callup 6 37 39 15 14 5 10 29 3.41 1.32 7.05 2.43 1.22

Admittedly, I've left out Floyd's lackluster first 30+ major league innings with the Sox. I haven't forgotten them completely. But I was looking for his true talent, his revised true talent since he started looking reporters in the eyes and grew big hairy balls, and those early '07 major league stats represent too much of Philly Floyd for my liking.

Plugging the Numbers

So what is Floyd's true talent as it pertains to his rate stats (K/9, e.g.)? What can we expect from a Floyd who's a year wiser, who's more likely to pitch like his final 24 starts over an entire season?

I've got Floyd for a K/9 of about 7 (probably a hair higher than 7), a BB/9 under 3 and HR/9 of about 1.3. If I take those peripherals and plug them into a spreadsheet giving Gavin about 30 starts to get some counting stats, I come up with a FIP ERA of about 4.5.

FIP Fielding Independent Pitching, a measure of all those things for which a pitcher is specifically responsible. The formula is (HR*13+(BB+HBP-IBB)*3-K*2)/IP, plus a league-specific factor (usually around 3.2) to round out the number to an equivalent ERA number. FIP helps you understand how well a pitcher pitched, regardless of how well his fielders fielded. FIP was invented by Tangotiger.

Since our initial projection is admittedly optimistic, all but ignoring Floyd's first 9 starts of '08, let's create a more realistic projection as well. If we move his K/9 down to 6 and his BB/9 and HR/9 up to 3 and 1.4, respectively, his FIP ERA raises to 4.9. That's exactly his weighted mean PECOTA ERA, but still below the 5.11 ERA that ZiPS gives him.

Gavin Floyd's 2009 Projection

G IP H R ER HR BB K ERA WHIP K/9 BB/9 HR/9
Cheat's Projection 30 192 199 107 97 28 61 153 4.55 1.35 7.15 2.85 1.33
"Realistic" 28 175 187 105 95 27 58 121 4.88 1.40 6.10 3 1.4

Conclusion

While more data is almost always better than less data, Floyd's topsy-turvy first 60 innings in '08, his lackluster first 30 major league innings in '07, and to a lesser extent his time in Philly all drag Floyd's projected ERAs skyward. But is Floyd ever likely to repeat a stretch of baseball like his first 60 innings of '08? Should his time in Philly really have any substantial effect on his future projections?

Going through the basic step-by-step process has allowed us to see how these systems arrive at their ultimate destination, and perhaps how they can be thrown off course by some wonky data. It's easy for us to sit back and say PECOTA hates White Sox pitching, but until we dive headfirst into our own projection, until we apply our own weight to the stats as well as exterior factors, we're just offering up a knee jerk reaction.

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So i'm confused.... are we doing a community projection....?

Cause i can’t find the link.
or did we already do one and i missed it?

Great post though. Especially the part about his big hairy balls. He looks like a different guy than when we got him from philly and I think he will beat most of his projections this year. He has the look of a guy that is coming into his own. He has confidence in himself, and isn’t looking over his shoulder. He shown that he is a major league pitcher and believes in himself…

It's called Sex Panther by Odeon. It's illegal in nine countries... Yep, it's made with bits of real panther, so you know it's good.

They've done studies, you know. 60% of the time it works, every time.

by ElDiablo on Mar 3, 2009 4:49 PM CST reply actions  

I'll probably start up the community projections again

leave ‘em in the FanPost section, since the front page is loaded. No, we haven’t done Floyd yet.

The post was influenced by a few of the wild projections offered up in the other CPs that we’ve done and a comment in the ZiPS fanshot about ZiPS hating Floyd.

by The Cheat on Mar 3, 2009 4:53 PM CST up reply actions  

My bad...

I thought that I missed out. You make very valid points on why the projections are where they are at for Gavin. I’m very excited to see if Floyd and Danks can take another step forward, level off, or regress.

Having 4 borderline breakout years gives you a lot to hope for / be skeptical of.

It's called Sex Panther by Odeon. It's illegal in nine countries... Yep, it's made with bits of real panther, so you know it's good.

They've done studies, you know. 60% of the time it works, every time.

by ElDiablo on Mar 3, 2009 4:58 PM CST up reply actions  

Sidenote...

There is a lot of ass kissing on here lately but, this place has been brimming with information lately. I feel so on top of my game as a fan.

It's called Sex Panther by Odeon. It's illegal in nine countries... Yep, it's made with bits of real panther, so you know it's good.

They've done studies, you know. 60% of the time it works, every time.

by ElDiablo on Mar 3, 2009 5:00 PM CST reply actions  

ESPN on White Sox

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/spring2009/columns/story?columnist=crasnick_jerry&id=3948072

There was an incident a few years ago. The Bulls were killing the Knicks, scrubs were playing out the clock, and the fans were screaming at them to score 100 points for free Big Macs. They took a ton of shots, Knicks took offense and they tried to fight some Bulls players.

by Ozzie Montana on Feb 19, 2009 5:25 PM EST

by Jbasic89 on Mar 3, 2009 5:06 PM CST reply actions  

Crasnick
The White Sox have thrown open their second-base competition to Chris Getz, Brent Lillibridge and Jayson Nix, while prospects Aaron Poreda, Clayton Richard, Lance Broadway and Jeff Marquez might all pitch in the big leagues in 2009.

If Lance Broadway is pitching for our club for more than 15 innings we are in TROUBLE

It's called Sex Panther by Odeon. It's illegal in nine countries... Yep, it's made with bits of real panther, so you know it's good.

They've done studies, you know. 60% of the time it works, every time.

by ElDiablo on Mar 3, 2009 5:29 PM CST up reply actions  

he could be the long man without hurting the team.

how much to the have to pay the Players -- that's what she said -- of the league like BA?

by colintj on Mar 3, 2009 5:54 PM CST up reply actions  

CHONE

has him right at a 6 era…. not what i had in mind for our long man.
If he’s there that means that line of guys that failed…. trouble

It's called Sex Panther by Odeon. It's illegal in nine countries... Yep, it's made with bits of real panther, so you know it's good.

They've done studies, you know. 60% of the time it works, every time.

by ElDiablo on Mar 3, 2009 6:59 PM CST up reply actions  

Correction

If he’s there it means that a long line of guys have failed

It's called Sex Panther by Odeon. It's illegal in nine countries... Yep, it's made with bits of real panther, so you know it's good.

They've done studies, you know. 60% of the time it works, every time.

by ElDiablo on Mar 3, 2009 7:00 PM CST up reply actions  

the long man typically pitches in very low leverage

as they usually come in handy most in mop up situations. not to stroke larry’s ego, but masset theory applies: there’s basically no leverage to be gained at the back of the bullpen because every team has a ton of those guys. limited opportunity means that the last couple guys on the roster are going to be basically interchangeable across the 14 AL teams (less so with NL b/c of the absence of DH). this is replacement level.

how much to the have to pay the Players -- that's what she said -- of the league like BA?

by colintj on Mar 3, 2009 8:07 PM CST up reply actions  

my ego is so big i can no longer even feel it when people stroke it.

southsidesox.com - now the best place on the interwebs for chicago white sox analysis and discussion.

by larry on Mar 3, 2009 8:09 PM CST up reply actions  

give it the ole

gravitational pull

how much to the have to pay the Players -- that's what she said -- of the league like BA?

by colintj on Mar 3, 2009 8:10 PM CST up reply actions  

Point taken....

I get what your saying….

I guess i just haven’t read the word prospect and Broadway in such a long time that it blurred my vision.

It's called Sex Panther by Odeon. It's illegal in nine countries... Yep, it's made with bits of real panther, so you know it's good.

They've done studies, you know. 60% of the time it works, every time.

by ElDiablo on Mar 3, 2009 8:17 PM CST up reply actions  

Outstanding

outside of the inability to spell ‘projection’

"KenWO
no point in arguing with people who are blinded from reality..."
by Where Triples Go to Die on Nov 29, 2008 6:49 PM

by Illini0509 on Mar 3, 2009 5:06 PM CST reply actions  

Normally you would get a pass on the misspelled words but,

Being that SBnation has multiple mergers, this will be seen all over the internet.

But you get a pass in my book. Any article with 3 graphs and that much thought/time put into it is good enough.

It's called Sex Panther by Odeon. It's illegal in nine countries... Yep, it's made with bits of real panther, so you know it's good.

They've done studies, you know. 60% of the time it works, every time.

by ElDiablo on Mar 3, 2009 5:25 PM CST up reply actions  

I just noticed your avatar, ED.

Kin to MM?

the post wasn't for you. fuck off.
by larry on Feb 10, 2009 12:43 PM EST

by winningugly on Mar 3, 2009 5:29 PM CST up reply actions  

Nope,

My wife gives me a hard time about not doing any laundry. She found that somewhere on the internet and sent it to me.

It's called Sex Panther by Odeon. It's illegal in nine countries... Yep, it's made with bits of real panther, so you know it's good.

They've done studies, you know. 60% of the time it works, every time.

by ElDiablo on Mar 3, 2009 5:31 PM CST up reply actions  

understood

just want to ensure the ‘quality’ around here stays consistent

"KenWO
no point in arguing with people who are blinded from reality..."
by Where Triples Go to Die on Nov 29, 2008 6:49 PM

by Illini0509 on Mar 3, 2009 5:14 PM CST up reply actions  

Never thought I'd see the day when Cheat

would be at the low end of the totem pole re: quality control. Fer Chrissakes.

Money corrupts and makes a man lazy.

the post wasn't for you. fuck off.
by larry on Feb 10, 2009 12:43 PM EST

by winningugly on Mar 3, 2009 5:21 PM CST up reply actions  

that's "quantity" to y'all.

how much to the have to pay the Players -- that's what she said -- of the league like BA?

by colintj on Mar 3, 2009 5:21 PM CST up reply actions  

Floyd will win the award

my Prime Minister is a boss eyed wanker

by hoodlight on Mar 3, 2009 6:04 PM CST reply actions  

quote
Oncce the pitcher loads the ball in the cocked position,the arm rotates forward at 7,000 degrees per second.
It is the single most fastest measured human motion of any activity.While in the loaded position,the shoulder and arm bear the equivalent of about 40 lbs of force pushing down.Biomecahanical experts at ASMI in Birmingham,Alabama were curious about how much more force an arm could take.They took cadavers into the lab and pulled and pushed upon the shoulder joint to find its breaking point.The ligaments blew apart just above 40 lbs – a pitcher is therefore at just about the maximum.
Small wonder they break down – their arms and shoulders are at the absolute limit.Pitching,unlike most sports activities,has reached the limit of what is humanly possible.
So while sprinters run faster,golfers hit the ball farther,swimmers swim faster because of technological advancements the pitcher has reached his peak.You will not see a ball delivered at 110mph.Any faster than they are now and the shoulder will blow up.
And that is why the role of research in baseball is not to get a pitcher to throw faster,but to lower the risk of injury.

my Prime Minister is a boss eyed wanker

by hoodlight on Mar 3, 2009 6:06 PM CST reply actions  

quote

my Prime Minister is a boss eyed wanker

by hoodlight on Mar 3, 2009 6:07 PM CST reply actions  

Fail?

or hoodie after multiple drinks? Or both?

by CWSKeith on Mar 3, 2009 6:21 PM CST up reply actions  

I'm trying to keep my head above water on here

I can’t keep up

my Prime Minister is a boss eyed wanker

by hoodlight on Mar 3, 2009 6:27 PM CST reply actions  

go for some spotted dick

pudding

The greatest trick the White Sox ever pulled was convincing their fan base that "Ozzieball" ever existed.

by The Wizard on Mar 3, 2009 6:28 PM CST up reply actions  

great post

but i think you still need to clarify the reasons for separating the 1st 9 games from the last 24. i don’t get it, is this based on the distribution of a specific summary statistic, or some other event that may influenced subsequent starts after may 23rd? why not split after the june 8th start? i looked at the gamelog on baseball reference, and there’s nothing that grabbed me to separate the 1st nine starts from the final 24.

if the k/bb on both sides of the cutoff start – right now its 27/25 vs 3 – changes little if you shift it to the 8th or 10th or 11th start, then it probably doesn’t matter.

by onlysoxfaninboston on Mar 3, 2009 7:12 PM CST reply actions  

I'll admit to some arbitrary endpoints

The main influence for the first 9 games post is just that his K/BB dipped into upside-down territory at that point, and then reverted to nearly 3:1 afterwards. It’s like he was two different pitchers.

And you can’t project the first one for crap. Or I suppose you would project the first one as crappy, but that just happened to be when he was most effective, thanks to some plus defense (Crede) and a .198 BABIP

by The Cheat on Mar 3, 2009 7:22 PM CST up reply actions  

of course it's arbitrary to an extent

but thanks for provided further clarification, that’s all i needed…

by onlysoxfaninboston on Mar 3, 2009 7:28 PM CST up reply actions  

I assumed, at the time, the BABIP was brought down because of all the infield flies.

The left is Floyd, the right is Danks. Notice that while Danks had most righties pulling off on the ball, his GB% was only 3% higher than Floyd’s. Floyd’s “splits”, if you will, were negligible, less than 1% difference between left and right side overall. Danks’s splits were a little startling to me, as that’s a big difference. My concern is that right-handed batters will adjust to Danks’s style over time and go more towards the middle or even to right field with the pitches. This may or may not be significant, but, if anything, it tells me that Danks may be the one due for a regression, if anyone. By the way, Danks’s BABIP was 30 points higher.

Now, what I was alluding to is that Floyd allowed soft contact, as he induced 9.2% infield flies. I wasn’t sure just how much higher than average this was, so I found someone with similar GB rates.

Left is Haren. His BABIP? .310. He allowed few more grounders than Floyd while inducing less infield flies. On the right is another Phillies top prospect, except this one took a different path than Floyd to get where he is now. He’s glorified, noted as one of the best young pitchers in the game, and rightly so. His K rate is higher than Floyd’s and his BB rate lower. You should have guessed by now that it’s Cole Hamels. His GB rate is within 1% of Floyd’s, his infield fly rate is a mere .3% higher and his BABIP is .002 higher. So I think the question is not whether Floyd can stay lucky or if the defense will be as good as it was, but whether Floyd can keep inducing soft contact, because that’s the main catalyst in his low BABIP.

Take these for what they’re worth, but maybe we can agree that Floyd wasn’t as lucky as everyone else wants you to believe. I remember a hitter describing him as “effectively wild”, is that what brought him to success? We watched it, right?

by Daniel Berlyn on Mar 3, 2009 7:49 PM CST up reply actions  

So when I post cool pictures, no one gives a fuck.

Maybe I should have drawn some rainbow colored swirlies and have someone say “Interesting stuff.” out of pity.

by Daniel Berlyn on Mar 3, 2009 9:15 PM CST up reply actions  

I thought they were cool...

It’s interesting that there’s a sort sabremetric “conventional wisdom” that Floyd was a mirage that will suck in 2009. I’m with the SSS assessment that he’ll be worse than 2008 ERA-wise but still valuable.

I’m terrible at visually analyzing pitching, but I’d agree with the effectively wild characterization. It looked to me like Floyd had a lot more movement on pitches than I usually see.

by hitlesswonder on Mar 3, 2009 9:34 PM CST up reply actions  

I don't think you can make any significant predictions of future performance based on the ground ball spray charts

The results seem like a function of the pitcher’s handedness or repertoire. Both righties and lefties will be hitting Danks cutter to the left side. Buehrle has a similar tendency to induce grounders to the left as does Hamels as you showed

by 3E8 on Mar 3, 2009 10:16 PM CST up reply actions  

Sorry - I guess my representative post wasn't enough an hour and a half earlier..

DANIEL BERLYN IS EFFING AWESOME! A GOD WITH GRAPHICS!!!! I WILL NAME MY FIRST-BORN SON IN ANOTHER LIFE “DANIEL BERLYN”!!! CHEAT, EFFING SIGN HIM TO A CONTRACT NOW!!!

Happy now, Mr. Glory Hound? Fer Chrissakes. Give this guy a trophy, already.

the post wasn't for you. fuck off.
by larry on Feb 10, 2009 12:43 PM EST

by winningugly on Mar 4, 2009 7:30 AM CST up reply actions  

So pull your pants up and have a cig.

the post wasn't for you. fuck off.
by larry on Feb 10, 2009 12:43 PM EST

by winningugly on Mar 4, 2009 7:50 AM CST up reply actions  

21 minutes. So far.

Are you 75 years old or something? Quit thinking about baseball.

the post wasn't for you. fuck off.
by larry on Feb 10, 2009 12:43 PM EST

by winningugly on Mar 4, 2009 7:54 AM CST up reply actions   1 recs

with this crowd, wu

thinking about baseball probably speeds things up

I don’t want my beer to taste like fruit or honey. I want pussy to taste that way.

by thatshortkid on Mar 4, 2009 11:48 AM CST up reply actions  

can't you put some colour on em?

they look a bit dull, need jazzing up a bit

my Prime Minister is a boss eyed wanker

by hoodlight on Mar 4, 2009 7:51 AM CST up reply actions  

We all claim

to love the statistics, charts, etc. but what really gets this group going is a picture of a good sandwich.

by palehose67 on Mar 4, 2009 8:04 AM CST up reply actions  

I think it's safe to put Floyd's ERA between his "fake" run of success and his "actual" stats beyond the first 9 starts

In other words, I’m pegging him at above four but below 4.50. I think Floyd is still in a growing stage and I expect his “peak” performance come in 2010. There’s no reason to think his peripherals will be any worse than last year. I think we’re eliminating any chance for a(nother) breakthrough with him and given his talent I don’t think that possibility to be ignored. I’d go as far to say that the Floyd we haven’t seen yet is more likely to appear than the pre-September 07 Floyd.

by Daniel Berlyn on Mar 3, 2009 7:27 PM CST reply actions  

Someone's bucking for a 4-figure assistant editor gig.

Nice work, Daniel-san.

the post wasn't for you. fuck off.
by larry on Feb 10, 2009 12:43 PM EST

by winningugly on Mar 3, 2009 7:52 PM CST up reply actions  

cuban comfort
“We understand culturalization is a part of any success, whatever the business,” said White Sox general manager Ken Williams, on the fit of the three Cubans with the White Sox. “If people are made to feel on the outside, then it affects their performance. So we work hard at trying to provide a stable environment for these guys. We don’t take it for granted. I follow up to make sure we are on the right track with that as well.”

Barring a major surprise or injury, Viciedo most likely will begin the 2009 campaign in the Minors. That stint at Charlotte or Double-A Birmingham certainly doesn’t mean Viciedo won’t contribute to the White Sox this year.

At some point, the “Cuban Tank” will join the “Cuban Missile” and “El Jefe,” or “Grandpa,” as Ramirez called Contreras with a broad smile on this particular day, as part of the White Sox Cuban Connection.

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090303&content_id=3912266&vkey=news_cws&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws

read the whole article.

southsidesox.com - now the best place on the interwebs for chicago white sox analysis and discussion.

by larry on Mar 3, 2009 7:39 PM CST reply actions  

WTF is "culturalization"?

So this is one of the “non-quantifiable” intangible Sox strengths – getting folks settled in and comfortable. Ah, “chemistry”, now that OrCa has left the building you can show your fabulous face again in the clubhouse.

the post wasn't for you. fuck off.
by larry on Feb 10, 2009 12:43 PM EST

by winningugly on Mar 3, 2009 7:58 PM CST up reply actions  

What does Tim D say?

And was Cheat already going to post it?

the post wasn't for you. fuck off.
by larry on Feb 10, 2009 12:43 PM EST

by winningugly on Mar 3, 2009 8:05 PM CST up reply actions  

no. cheat wouldn't post something like that. too earthy.

southsidesox.com - now the best place on the interwebs for chicago white sox analysis and discussion.

by larry on Mar 3, 2009 8:07 PM CST up reply actions  

da Cheat!

...and then some depressed fucked-cake eating.

by homesickalien on Mar 3, 2009 8:22 PM CST up reply actions  

Also...

I want one!!!!!

...and then some depressed fucked-cake eating.

by homesickalien on Mar 3, 2009 8:58 PM CST up reply actions  

i understand cheat likes lotsa dick-sucking.

and you’re definitely not averse to scat. dad would probably approve. sounds like a winning combination to me.

southsidesox.com - now the best place on the interwebs for chicago white sox analysis and discussion.

by larry on Mar 3, 2009 9:13 PM CST up reply actions  

WU!

You’re getting ordained!

...and then some depressed fucked-cake eating.

by homesickalien on Mar 3, 2009 9:18 PM CST up reply actions  

this is non-culturalization.
Piniella was fuming over a remark Phillips made recently on Chet Coppock’s WMVP-AM 1000 radio show. Asked about Kosuke Fukudome’s rookie season, Phillips criticized Piniella’s handling of the Japanese outfielder.

“My view is Lou doesn’t have a great deal of patience for assimilation into culture, assimilation into the team,” Phillips said. “He is just not the most patient guy around, and he tends to verbalize his frustrations in an angry way. I think that may have affected Fukudome a little bit.”


“I don’t have much respect for Steve Phillips,” Piniella said after hearing the comment Monday. “Let him be around a little more and see what transpires before he makes assumptions. I’ve lost total respect for this guy. If he had something to say, let him say it to me.”

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/chi-03-cubs-bits-chicagomar03,0,1666194.story

southsidesox.com - now the best place on the interwebs for chicago white sox analysis and discussion.

by larry on Mar 3, 2009 9:49 PM CST up reply actions  

Lou doesn't have fucking time to learn about other pansy ass cultures

He’s got 1st round playoff series to mismanage! Get that fucking Hispanola Zambrano outta there, 50 innings for Dempster!

Confusion breeds success. If they don't know each other, opponents can't have strategy. GENIUS.

by Ozzie Montana on Mar 3, 2009 10:44 PM CST up reply actions  

"Get off my lawn!"

Wilder Bilked Money from Sox to Fund Struggling Gay Bar

by ChicagoPete on Mar 4, 2009 5:34 AM CST up reply actions  

Phillips may have been referring to Piniella's propensity

to wear the “Horry Cow” T-shirt and Rising Sun bandanna around the clubhouse and play an infinite loop of “Tora! Tora! Tora!” during tape reviews.

Oh, and when Fukodome would swing and miss Lou shouted “BANZAIIIIIIIIIII!!” from the dugout.

the post wasn't for you. fuck off.
by larry on Feb 10, 2009 12:43 PM EST

by winningugly on Mar 4, 2009 7:33 AM CST up reply actions   2 recs

banzaiiii!

...and then some depressed fucked-cake eating.

by homesickalien on Mar 4, 2009 8:34 AM CST up reply actions  

Fielding Bible Excerpt
John Dewan does it based on RE24 (run expectancy by the 24 base/out states). In that sense, it is identical to what Fangraphs does on the hitting side with RE24. Otherwise, he follows the same process he did the first time, and is a subset of what MGL does with UZR. (Unless Dewan also handled all the parameters that MGL does.) It may also be somewhat of a subset to what Pinto does.

http://www.insidethebook.com/ee/index.php/site/comments/fielding_bible_excerpt/

I see Q!‘s +/- runs saved at -4 and OF Arm runs saved at 4, and Che’s +/- runs saved at -6 and GDP runs saved at 0
http://sabernomics.com/sabernomics/FieldingBibleVII_Excerpt.pdf

The greatest trick the White Sox ever pulled was convincing their fan base that "Ozzieball" ever existed.

by The Wizard on Mar 3, 2009 7:57 PM CST reply actions  

Wiz, is that you?

But Frank Thomas was always his own guy, he always lived by some sort of code that wasn’t especially clear to anyone but him.

by U-God on Mar 3, 2009 8:51 PM CST up reply actions  

here

http://deadspin.com/5163870/the-sad-demise-of-john-odom-the-player-who-was-traded-for-bats

The greatest trick the White Sox ever pulled was convincing their fan base that "Ozzieball" ever existed.

by The Wizard on Mar 3, 2009 9:20 PM CST up reply actions  

"lotsa dick-sucking", huh. you, at least, indeed.

southsidesox.com - now the best place on the interwebs for chicago white sox analysis and discussion.

by larry on Mar 3, 2009 8:59 PM CST up reply actions  

gotta pay the bills, lar-bear.

you seem to know what that’s all about, editor.

...and then some depressed fucked-cake eating.

by homesickalien on Mar 3, 2009 9:00 PM CST up reply actions  

no, i don't know how to pay bills. that's a wife job.

southsidesox.com - now the best place on the interwebs for chicago white sox analysis and discussion.

by larry on Mar 3, 2009 9:01 PM CST up reply actions  

How I picture MM:

how much to the have to pay the Players -- that's what she said -- of the league like BA?

by colintj on Mar 3, 2009 9:42 PM CST up reply actions  

He's a shark.

EVERYBODY PICK US FOR 3RD OR 4TH SO I DINK WE DOIN POOTY GOO
Sox Machine

by Sox Machine on Mar 3, 2009 9:52 PM CST up reply actions  

How I picture larry

Confusion breeds success. If they don't know each other, opponents can't have strategy. GENIUS.

by Ozzie Montana on Mar 3, 2009 10:54 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

i have blue eyes.

southsidesox.com - now the best place on the interwebs for chicago white sox analysis and discussion.

by larry on Mar 3, 2009 10:54 PM CST up reply actions  

Like the sea after a storm.

the post wasn't for you. fuck off.
by larry on Feb 10, 2009 12:43 PM EST

by winningugly on Mar 4, 2009 7:34 AM CST up reply actions  

Hysterical,

and rec’d due to facthood.

the post wasn't for you. fuck off.
by larry on Feb 10, 2009 12:43 PM EST

by winningugly on Mar 4, 2009 10:55 AM CST up reply actions  

ha!

my Prime Minister is a boss eyed wanker

by hoodlight on Mar 4, 2009 12:25 PM CST up reply actions  

Rec'd.

the post wasn't for you. fuck off.
by larry on Feb 10, 2009 12:43 PM EST

by winningugly on Mar 4, 2009 7:34 AM CST up reply actions  

I've said something similar....

before.

...and then some depressed fucked-cake eating.

by homesickalien on Mar 4, 2009 8:39 AM CST up reply actions  

Ah, who could forget this classic?
term: pussy, user: larry, count: 11

term: pussy, user: all, count: 83

Confusion breeds success. If they don't know each other, opponents can't have strategy. GENIUS.

by Ozzie Montana on Mar 4, 2009 10:47 AM CST up reply actions  

Hey, OM, are you a "friend" of SSS?

the post wasn't for you. fuck off.
by larry on Feb 10, 2009 12:43 PM EST

by winningugly on Mar 4, 2009 10:56 AM CST up reply actions  

Um, in what capacity?

Confusion breeds success. If they don't know each other, opponents can't have strategy. GENIUS.

by Ozzie Montana on Mar 4, 2009 10:58 AM CST up reply actions  

FB.

I believe I have you picked out…

the post wasn't for you. fuck off.
by larry on Feb 10, 2009 12:43 PM EST

by winningugly on Mar 4, 2009 11:00 AM CST up reply actions  

I haven't been on the page in a while

But, I just looked through everyone’s faces. I think it was a pretty quick scan looking for me.

Confusion breeds success. If they don't know each other, opponents can't have strategy. GENIUS.

by Ozzie Montana on Mar 4, 2009 11:02 AM CST up reply actions  

He's the guy terrorizing my profile.

I think I’m his only white friend.

...and then some depressed fucked-cake eating.

by homesickalien on Mar 4, 2009 11:12 AM CST up reply actions  

Ah yes...inspired by SSH's reaction to finding out I was a girl for the first time.

Gosh, that guy was a sweetheart.

Once he dropped the “pussy” thing, he picked up the classic defense of posting “Shut the fuck up, bitch” pictures when he couldn’t come up with a retort for me.

The good ol’ days.

...and then some depressed fucked-cake eating.

by homesickalien on Mar 4, 2009 11:00 AM CST up reply actions  

get back in the kitchen

my Prime Minister is a boss eyed wanker

by hoodlight on Mar 4, 2009 12:26 PM CST up reply actions  

We know certain "sugar walls" of yours were tingling earlier yesterday,

so I bet you were wiped out.

the post wasn't for you. fuck off.
by larry on Feb 10, 2009 12:43 PM EST

by winningugly on Mar 4, 2009 7:35 AM CST up reply actions  

i touched on this earlier

Saying there was too much good discussion and topics.

The new crew of editors has been blowing their proverbial all over the front page.

It's called Sex Panther by Odeon. It's illegal in nine countries... Yep, it's made with bits of real panther, so you know it's good.

They've done studies, you know. 60% of the time it works, every time.

by ElDiablo on Mar 3, 2009 10:10 PM CST up reply actions  

um yeah that was supposeed to read

Proverbial loads…. all over the front page….

it really loses its humor when you have to type a correction into it.

It's called Sex Panther by Odeon. It's illegal in nine countries... Yep, it's made with bits of real panther, so you know it's good.

They've done studies, you know. 60% of the time it works, every time.

by ElDiablo on Mar 3, 2009 10:11 PM CST up reply actions  

it was alright

I figured it was done on purpose, because we all know load comes after proverbial.

by Grinder in Training on Mar 3, 2009 10:12 PM CST up reply actions  

guess ED blew his too early

But Frank Thomas was always his own guy, he always lived by some sort of code that wasn’t especially clear to anyone but him.

by U-God on Mar 3, 2009 10:14 PM CST up reply actions  

Good thing i can go multiple times to make up for it.

Oh who am I kidding, I usually just fall asleep after i’ve blown.

It's called Sex Panther by Odeon. It's illegal in nine countries... Yep, it's made with bits of real panther, so you know it's good.

They've done studies, you know. 60% of the time it works, every time.

by ElDiablo on Mar 3, 2009 10:17 PM CST up reply actions  

thanks

But Frank Thomas was always his own guy, he always lived by some sort of code that wasn’t especially clear to anyone but him.

by U-God on Mar 4, 2009 9:12 AM CST up reply actions  

Oh noes

Bill Plashke is now following my on Twitter

/expects to be mentioned on that terrible show tomorrow

by The Cheat on Mar 3, 2009 11:27 PM CST reply actions  

Let's not begin sucking...

Aww, eff it.

the post wasn't for you. fuck off.
by larry on Feb 10, 2009 12:43 PM EST

by winningugly on Mar 4, 2009 7:36 AM CST up reply actions  

the sig that ruined the world.

how much to the have to pay the Players -- that's what she said -- of the league like BA?

by colintj on Mar 4, 2009 11:31 AM CST up reply actions  

Let me add to the backslapping

The new & improved SSS, very nice Cheat. Tastes great, less venom.

Wilder Bilked Money from Sox to Fund Struggling Gay Bar

by ChicagoPete on Mar 4, 2009 5:40 AM CST reply actions  

You are posting less?

the post wasn't for you. fuck off.
by larry on Feb 10, 2009 12:43 PM EST

by winningugly on Mar 4, 2009 7:36 AM CST up reply actions  

Definitely less than you.

Wilder Bilked Money from Sox to Fund Struggling Gay Bar

by ChicagoPete on Mar 4, 2009 11:17 AM CST up reply actions  

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