Richard Dinked, Exits Early, Starts Thursday
by The Cheat on Jul 5, 2009 11:14 PM CDT
in White Sox Game Recaps
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PrintYesterday, I wrote that Ozzie Guillen needed to have a swifter hook with Gavin Floyd, citing a rested bullpen and a clearly laboring Floyd. Today, Ozzie yanked Clayton Richard after just 3.2 innings, yet he seemed to be the victim of bad luck more than bad pitching.
Richard wasn't getting hit extraordinarily hard and wasn't walking guys even though home plate umpire Andy Fletcher wasn't giving the inside corner to right-handers. I probably wouldn't have pulled him, but I can't blame Ozzie. As I noted yesterday, the pen was rested, and if he didn't give D.J. Carrasco and Aaron Poreda some work it would have been another two days (at least) until they saw game action.
There comes a point, however, when you have to be concerned about Richard's inability to go deep into games. His abbreviated outing Sunday dropped his average innings per start down to just an eyelash over 5. His last 4 outings have spanned 85 pitches or less, and he's recorded an out in the 6th inning in only one of his last 6 starts, his 6-inning rain-shortened complete game last week.
Ozzie says he remains confident in Richard even if his actions belie his words
"We trust him," manager Ozzie Guillen said. "He has great stuff to pitch at the big league level. But every time he goes out there, we have to be patient and realize he's a kid, and we try to get him better every time he goes out there."
While Richard hasn't been able to pitch deep into games, Poreda has hardly pitched at all since getting the call up to the big club nearly a month ago. He's thrown a total 1.1 innings since Ozzie said he would be "used a little bit more." If this is 'more,' I'd hate to see less. It would be one thing if Poreda looked like a rattled rookie, or worse, say, Jimmy Gobble, but Poreda has yet to be scored upon as a big-leaguer (which, of course, means he's getting shelled next time out. You can thank me later.)
Richard will have one more chance to prove himself before the All-Star break, which apparently will be Thursday on short rest. In which case, today's shortened outing was surely part of the plan. I could go back and rewrite this to make it seem like I knew all along, but I'll just keep it honest. And in the interest of honesty, I most definitely turned the game off after Carrasco gave up the wall-denting homer to Miguel Olivo.
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It's spelled "SELL!!!"
At least it was when I saw the result of today’s game
by hitlesswonder on Jul 6, 2009 12:52 AM CDT up reply actions
You would think if they are looking at Poreda as a starter that he has to get a look at some point
If Richard continues to throw 3 innings per start.
Agreed.
I got on Cooper when I called and made that comment on one of those “Coop at the Cork” shows on The Score. He got very defensive and kept telling me I was wrong in an emphatic fashion. That was a couple weeks ago, and the trend has worsened since. We’re not doing the team or him any good using him (or, not using) like this.
Cooper seems to know what he’s doing with pitchers. I imagine he’s doing a lot of work on the side with him so he can work directly with him on his secondary pitches. If he’s making progress, and helping the big league club at the same time, I don’t see the problem unless you are worried about service time issues.
by Grinder in Training on Jul 6, 2009 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions
Larry mentioned this a couple days ago and referenced Danks
If that really is the case I certainly back off for a little while.
"I'm just here to provide street cred and a rosy outlook"- translation - unemployed life coach
Yep, it is the ONLY
answer that makes any sense.
"I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it."
Or they just don’t want other teams to scout his secondary offerings anymore because they don’t think they will get better. If they still want to trade him, no reason to lower his value.
by Grinder in Training on Jul 6, 2009 10:19 AM CDT up reply actions
Just got home from Vegas
The Rangers made me a decent amount of money this weekend..
only ended up down 80 less bucks then I came with and thats including drinks and whatnot, great weekend
Wave that flag.... Wave it wide and high.. Summertime... Done come and gone, My oh my
Yeah the starting pitching upgrade is still very much a trade option
I don’t even think it has to be a long term solution anymore if the price is right (meaning nothing but taking on the cash). The obvious big trade rumor involving the White Sox deals with a 3/4 season MVP possibly joining the club……..
In all seriousness a good road trip. It sucked losing the last 2 (man losing really sucks huh?)
Now get right at home boys.
"I'm just here to provide street cred and a rosy outlook"- translation - unemployed life coach
I hate to be pessimistic....
but why am I seeing Cleveland coming in here and beating us 2 or 3? Probably because that’s the way it’s been. We need to win this series.
Well they do need to pick up the hitting at home,
but I do think you are being pessimistic. They did win the last 2 home series.
"I'm just here to provide street cred and a rosy outlook"- translation - unemployed life coach
Def still agreed re: an SP...I think something is happening
Formerly Crede's Crew
what are the possibilities for pitching upgrade trade options?
Always bet on black!
by onlysoxfaninboston on Jul 6, 2009 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions
well thats hard to say
everybody still thinks they are in it. The most realistic sellers at this point are
Arizona
San Diego
Pitt
Houston (soon)
Washington
Oakland
Clev
KC
Balt
Toronto
We can probably eliminate Clev (wont trade with us) and Oakland in regards to pitching
"I'm just here to provide street cred and a rosy outlook"- translation - unemployed life coach
Arizona
Haren – Pipe Dream
Garland – no
Doug Davis – Hmmmm
"I'm just here to provide street cred and a rosy outlook"- translation - unemployed life coach
thanks and by the way
i’m off the bandwagon now, losing two games in a row pushed me over the edge
clearly ;)
Always bet on black!
by onlysoxfaninboston on Jul 6, 2009 11:48 AM CDT up reply actions
San Diego
Chad Gaudin – Pitching much better than his stats (though walks concern me)
Kevin Correia- decent no name.
"I'm just here to provide street cred and a rosy outlook"- translation - unemployed life coach
looks like they both are arb eligible.
anyway you get the point for most of these teams.
"I'm just here to provide street cred and a rosy outlook"- translation - unemployed life coach
And I think the point is
there isn’t much out there and your internal options very well might be your best.
"I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it."
i hear san diego has this peavy guy, think they'd be up for trading him?
i’ll hang up and listen for your answer
These events have me frightened and on the verge of evacuating my bowels.
by thatshortkid on Jul 6, 2009 12:11 PM CDT up reply actions
Arizona
Haren – Pipe Dream
Garland – no
Doug Davis – Hmmmm
"I'm just here to provide street cred and a rosy outlook"- translation - unemployed life coach
But what do you think of Arizona?
The Chicago Bulls.....the more profitable Los Angeles Clippers.
by Ozzie Montana on Jul 6, 2009 11:44 AM CDT up reply actions
I'm pretty bummed that Dye didn't get an All Star nod.
I mean, Buehrle deserved to go. No doubt about that. I just think it’s funny that Dye didn’t even make the final vote.
"I can't give you a dollar if I don't have fifty cents." - Kenny Williams
by Servant2LordBeckham on Jul 6, 2009 9:28 AM CDT reply actions
Regardless how you feel about Dye’s candidacy, the entire thing is stupid. You make the game count, but let fans vote for guys like Hamilton or Varitek previously, and force the manager to pick a player from every team be on there. How do these ideas work together? If the game counts, then you need the best players from the best teams because they are the ones who are concerned about actually winning.
If you want it to be an All Star game of the most popular players for the fans, then you can’t have it mean something. The process is broken.
by Grinder in Training on Jul 6, 2009 9:55 AM CDT up reply actions
I can live with the fan vote
But the rep from every club needs to go.
"I'm just here to provide street cred and a rosy outlook"- translation - unemployed life coach
Which means the Sox would have had nobody on the team
But I would agree that the every team thing is lame and is a complication that should be removed
by hitlesswonder on Jul 6, 2009 10:30 AM CDT up reply actions
Yeah, there would've been a lot of years where we had no representative
It’s tough for teams like KC, Pitt, etc, but there are a bunch of teams out there like ours where it’d suck to get pinched b/c there are 15 Yankees and Red Sox on the team.
Formerly Crede's Crew
I think every team should have a rep.
I know there have been a lot of years that the Sox only had one guy. gives reason for the fans of that team to watch the game
Kenwo4life=ratings
I just don’t get why anyone cares if their players are on this team. It boggles my mind. So you are more likely to watch this game because your player may get one inning in a game that they don’t deserve to be in? Really??? Why do you care? You see them every day.
As a fan of a team that actually has a small chance to go to a World Series, you are perfectly fine with players that aren’t the most talented in the league deciding if you get home field advantage or not? What motivation does a Kansas City Royal or Pittsburgh Pirate have to play well or give a damn about this game?
If you want it to be a fan friendly collection of not all great players, then it can’t determine who gets homefield advantage for the world series. It’s ridiculous.
by Grinder in Training on Jul 6, 2009 12:28 PM CDT up reply actions
mlb is not going to hold an all-star game without having a representative from every member of mlb.
the rules are never going to make everyone happy.
White Sox Minor League Updates: http://twitter.com/SouthSidelarry
That’s fine, you can’t make the game count then. If people want to watch mediocre players from bad teams, they shouldn’t be able to determine home field advantage for the WS.
by Grinder in Training on Jul 6, 2009 12:35 PM CDT up reply actions
I agree. WS HFA should be determined by Interleague play, best record hosts.
"It's better to be an optimist who is sometimes wrong than a pessimist who is always right"
That is my opinion also.
Which ever league had the better record in interleague play deserves it. It’s the fairest and easiest way to do it.
by Grinder in Training on Jul 6, 2009 1:00 PM CDT up reply actions
I always thought it should be
a 2 of 3 with interleague, all star game and overall best record . . . can help appease both sides of the coin.
"I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it."
mlb can do whatever it wants.
really, who cares.
White Sox Minor League Updates: http://twitter.com/SouthSidelarry
they used to.
I love this team again. I know they’re bad for me.
They’ll probably get drunk again and beat me… but I just can’t help myself.
by ReservoirDog on Jul 3, 2009 10:18 PM CDT
I know people get all homered up
when it comes to All Star voting, but it isn’t as though Dye has that great of a case against any OF there. Possibly Hamilton because he was injured and hasn’t played much, but he was voted in by the fans anyway. I am not sure there is that great of an argument for him. Sure, he has been great offensively, but he is fairly awful defensively in RF, nonetheless. He wouldn’t even be the next OF on the team in my opinion . . . Choo of the Indians has a better case.
"I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it."
Well I think as somebody pointed out in another thread...
Dye at least deserved to be a reserve. Curtis Granderson is going, yet Dye has better stats than him. But yeah, it’s a popularity contest. And New York will always have an advantage when it comes to voting.
"I can't give you a dollar if I don't have fifty cents." - Kenny Williams
by Servant2LordBeckham on Jul 6, 2009 11:15 AM CDT up reply actions
Yeah, that was a great argument
I would love to see a legitimate argument that shows Dye is a better player than Granderson . . . this year, last year,etc. Feel free . . . just dont ignore all aspects of the game of baseball . . . you know like running, catching the ball . . . those sorts of things.
And funny, but NY tends to also have the advantage when it comes to better players.
"I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it."
I'll give that a shot.
But first I must note that I think Granderson is an excellent and exciting ballplayer, and he seems like a good kid too. I wish he played for the White Sox. And yes, Granderson can run. His 15 stolen bases this year is already an improvement over his mere dozen from last year. And yes, he can cover some ground in the outfield. He has no erros this year; Dye has two. But if we’re looking at all aspects of the game, Dye has a better OBP this year (.364 vs. .341) and a better BA (.291 vs. .256 — ouch!) Dye has better SLG (.571 vs. .467) and a better OPS (.935 vs. .808). And, of course, Dye has more HR and RBI. Granderson is leading Dye in strike-outs (69 vs. 57). But give me a White Sox outfield of Q in left, Granderson in center and Dye in right, and I’m a happy guy.
flagged.
understates defensive difference and ignores positional adjustments. the gap between the two is not close.
White Sox Minor League Updates: http://twitter.com/SouthSidelarry
for me that's kinda the point...
how did Maddon of the I’m-selecting-10-game-winners Maddons manage to put a guy with a .256 average in the ASG?
I’m not arguing against the pick, I just don’t understand the process.
Twitter: @SouthSideCheat
SouthSideSox on Facebook
Seriously!
This entire game is based on popularity, ballot-stuffing and stats that don’t matter. That’s as American as apple pie. Why suddenly look at things that actually matter?
yes, the only real outlier in the staff he chose is wakefield.
if you want to get real sabermetric, the pitchers he chose are pretty much the leaders in WAR.
as for wakefield, if you’re attempting to win the game, which pitcher would you want as the last man in your bullpen of an all-star game if the game were to go many extra innings….
White Sox Minor League Updates: http://twitter.com/SouthSidelarry
i think maddon is far more calculating than that.
the red sox are unlikely to whine much if wakefield is out there pitching innings 14-19. i doubt the dodgers would be as sanguine if billingsley is.
White Sox Minor League Updates: http://twitter.com/SouthSidelarry
Agreed,
though I’m sure they could’ve chosen any other rubber-armed guy not named Wakefield (though I am ata loss who that would be who has comarable stats). But the “old guy” sentiment plays well, too.
And, seriously, who gives an eff what your opponents say about how you torch their starters in the ASG? That’s part of the privilege of earning the manager’s spot, no? I hope he pitches Mo Rivera 3 innings just ’cause the Yanks have pissed him off.
We’re a pack of a-holes.
by rhythm on Apr 14, 2009 1:45 PM EDT
because next year you probably won't be managing the all-star game.
White Sox Minor League Updates: http://twitter.com/SouthSidelarry
yes, the only real outlier in the staff he chose is wakefield.
if you want to get real sabermetric, the pitchers he chose are pretty much the leaders in WAR.
as for wakefield, if you’re attempting to win the game, which pitcher would you want as the last man in your bullpen of an all-star game if the game were to go many extra innings….
White Sox Minor League Updates: http://twitter.com/SouthSidelarry
I see we are through the looking glass again, Alice.
We’re a pack of a-holes.
by rhythm on Apr 14, 2009 1:45 PM EDT
I don't disagree.
Can I self-flag? Of course Granderson is a better defensive player. But overall, I’d probably rather have this year’s version of Dye vs. this year’s version of Granderson. But if I can be more precise, I’d rather have Dye as my right fielder over Granderson as my right fielder. Besides, I’m a lawyer, and I’m merely building my client’s case. I’ll let the opposition build their own case (while giving slight acknowledgment to where the opposition’s case clearly is stronger).
Its not just that he is a better defensive player
it is that he is FAR superior defensively while playing CF versus Dye’s not good RF defense. The difference cannot be understated. It makes up for the batting difference and then sum . . . that is how big that gap is. It is huge. The Tigers are in first and a big reason for that is their defense of which he plays an important role.
"I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it."
Again, I think Granderson
is a terrific talent. And sure, his defense is far superior to Dye’s defense. I also know that Dye’s “not good RF defense” has been debated on SSS many times. But sitting here at 1:40 on the afternoon of July 6, I tend to think that if the Sox replaced Dye tomorrow in right field with Granderson, the Sox would be a slightly weaker team. And Dye is taller than Granderson too. I would also note that Granderson has been thrown out stealing TWICE as many times as Granderson this year, but larry would instantly (and legitimately) flag me for that too.
i think we would all flag you for this
And Dye is taller than Granderson too. I would also note that Granderson has been thrown out stealing TWICE as many times as Granderson this year
" Do you guys know people like you are the reason I wouldn’t come on for exstended periods of time. You rui the baseball blogging expieriance."
by trademaker on May 30, 2009 10:31 PM PDT
i think we can all agree that granderson should be an all-star over granderson. that much is clear. dye, however, is up for debate.
Cashing checks and having sex.
Christ, too linear.
Think outside the box for once in your life, MM.
We’re a pack of a-holes.
by rhythm on Apr 14, 2009 1:45 PM EDT
AGREED!
That’s why I don’t even bother with voting. If they want to have a popularity contest, well then have one. Give the vote back to the players, managers and coaches like it used to be.
Yeah, because the players
and managers did SO much better with their choices. Have you even given this year’s choices a cursory glance before posting?? You are aware that Jason Marquis is on the roster and the fans did not choose him, right? Or that each side has 5 relief pitchers? It is good stuff all around. I think the fans actually did a decent job, other than Hamilton.
"I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it."
who would you have on there from Colorado?
I love this team again. I know they’re bad for me.
They’ll probably get drunk again and beat me… but I just can’t help myself.
by ReservoirDog on Jul 3, 2009 10:18 PM CDT
Agreed w/ Jimenez, but the #s are closer than I thought
Formerly Crede's Crew
Yeah. I think Marquis deserves to go.
He’s having a career year.
"I can't give you a dollar if I don't have fifty cents." - Kenny Williams
by Servant2LordBeckham on Jul 6, 2009 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions
If by career year,
you mean getting a shit ton of run support, then yeah. Has he been a bit better than most of his career, yes. Do you ignore the past 8 seasons and just go based on this half season? I think not, especially considering there is a better pitcher on the same roster.
"I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it."
I think that for an All Star selection, you do ignore past seasons...
And you only focus on the first half because you obviously have no clue what the second half will be like for that player. Remember 2006 Contreras during the second half?
"I can't give you a dollar if I don't have fifty cents." - Kenny Williams
by Servant2LordBeckham on Jul 6, 2009 12:10 PM CDT up reply actions
Who said anything about a 2nd half?
That doesn’t change the fact Marquis isn’t even the best pitcher on his own team. Secondly, it is sort of ridiculous to suggest a players past performance should have no weight at all on an all star selection, but that everyone should be in based on the first month or two of statistics. Remember, voting for this crap started a long, long time ago. So if I pick up a ballot on May 1st . . . I should be voting for every player that had the best April??
"I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it."
i regret all of my votes for bonifacio
White Sox Minor League Updates: http://twitter.com/SouthSidelarry
Ha, I think MLB channel
had some segment dedicated to praising his ability after like 2 weeks of the season. Hilarious stuff.
"I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it."
Jason Marquis has had a solid season.
This is the All Star game, not a Hall of Fame vote, so of course you should only look at this season.
If you look at their career, people like Josh Hamilton who have no right to be there this year, get to go.
What do his last 8 seasons have to do with how well he has pitched this year?
by Grinder in Training on Jul 6, 2009 12:32 PM CDT up reply actions
It is that sort of flawed thinking
that leads to the Jason Marquis’ of the world making all star games . . . I supposed we should be voting based on # of wins and batting average too!
Oh, and solid season and all star season are 2 different things.
"I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it."
He leads the league in wins, his ERA is under 4.00 in Colorado, by the average fan definition he’s having a pretty great season. Considering this is a game that has a player from every team included, I’d say it’s safe to say it’s catering to the average, casual fan, not the guys working for Bill James.
Not everyone who watches baseball is concerned with VORP and win shares. They just see a guy leading the league in wins. In the average fan’s eyes, he’s having an all star season. Just because you don’t agree with how they look at his numbers, doesn’t mean he isn’t having an all star season.
by Grinder in Training on Jul 6, 2009 12:43 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah Keith Law starting breaking down his snubs and pulled out FIP
My eyes rolled. Its cool to have a mythical saber all star team. But most fans who see a .220 batting avg don’t buy, “but he has a .850 OPS! or his FIP is 3.63!”
Shit otherwise throw Danks and Floyd on the team.
Probably would help them win.
"I'm just here to provide street cred and a rosy outlook"- translation - unemployed life coach
I actually think OPS is becoming fairly common
amongst the ‘casual’ fan.
FIP is whole different story though . . . and I get your point there.
"I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it."
You realize that he was picked by the manager
not the fans, right?
"I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it."
The manager is still picking guys for an all star team that is for the fans. Not only that, do you think he really has time to go through each guys most detailed stats. Things like FIP or VORP? Or even cares to do so?
Marquis leads the league in wins, and has a solid ERA. When you’re glancing through all the players basic stat’s I don’t know how this selection confuses you?
by Grinder in Training on Jul 6, 2009 1:00 PM CDT up reply actions
So, the process is flawed because
the fans pick 9 starters . . . or because we rely on managers (who have clear biases, please see Ryan Howard) who dont have the time to choose the best players? I am sure the manager sits around and thinks . . . I am picking this team for the fans, so fans only look at wins, ERA and batting average, so I am too.
"I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it."
I see both points
IMO opinion I do have a problem with the all star being for a “career”. That’s not the purpose.
I do like a player having a career half year getting a shot at it. Its fun. I just think they should move back the voting.
"I'm just here to provide street cred and a rosy outlook"- translation - unemployed life coach
C'mon Tdogg
it is a combination of both. It is not just one or the other. But you simply cannot ignore past seasons completely, that makes no sense. It is not like Zobrist is not worthy given what he is doing or an Adam Jones, etc. There is room for both.
"I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it."
I hear you.
I think that’s were most of the fan voting comes from. I just think it gets carried way sometimes.
"I'm just here to provide street cred and a rosy outlook"- translation - unemployed life coach
By no means is it perfect, but they (fans) are only
putting 10 (one via the last spot process) of the 33 on the roster. So, I just find it amusing when so many people blame this ‘flawed’ process on the fans and the popularity contest. The fans did a better job than the managers did, imo.
"I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it."
The managers had to pick from the leftovers, and had to fit a roster around some guys they know don’t deserve to be there. The fans just get to vote on the 10 best players. The fans should do a better job.
by Grinder in Training on Jul 6, 2009 1:02 PM CDT up reply actions
You forgot
“I am a first time caller”
"I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it."
You really think the fans do a great job of picking these teams? Josh Hamilton is on the team.
Jason Marquis is far more deserving of a spot than he is.
by Grinder in Training on Jul 6, 2009 1:16 PM CDT up reply actions
“If the game counts, then you need the best players from the best teams because they are the ones who are concerned about actually winning.”
White Sox Minor League Updates: http://twitter.com/SouthSidelarry
That’s my opinion, yes.
With that being the case, I’d pick Marquis over Hamilton this year. Both play for winning teams that are in the playoff hunt, but one has had a bad year, one has had a good year.
by Grinder in Training on Jul 6, 2009 1:26 PM CDT up reply actions
well, russell branyan of seattle is having a career year so far in the first half...
looking back at his past 10 or so years…he’s been average at best…peter gammons brought him up on baseball tonight as a snub…avg/hr/rbi nearly the same with dye…higher OPS and OBP for branyan…most of the time the popular choice will win out
takes some real stones for the one certifiable cocksucker on here to jump into this convo.-mm
i would certainly say that past seasons should not be a factor in all-star selections.
Cashing checks and having sex.
Jimenez
though Hawpe is also on the roster so you dont need either really. But , definitely Jimenez.
"I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it."
So we didn't pick up Hairston from SD b/c Q! is almost back, right?
Formerly Crede's Crew
It used to be so easy. ;) Remember the glory days?
"I can't give you a dollar if I don't have fifty cents." - Kenny Williams
by Servant2LordBeckham on Jul 6, 2009 11:26 AM CDT reply actions
That's quite a personal question, 'Q.
We’re a pack of a-holes.
by rhythm on Apr 14, 2009 1:45 PM EDT
I wonder where that attractive young female is at these days.
Why aren’t we sending her to the All Star game?
"I can't give you a dollar if I don't have fifty cents." - Kenny Williams
by Servant2LordBeckham on Jul 6, 2009 11:59 AM CDT up reply actions
I love the look of pure joy in the eyes of the guy in the red cap
"To play for me you have to have some balls." - Ozzie Guillen (6/30/09)
I, for one, am happy the Sox only have MB going to the ASG
and I hope he doesn’t get in.
It’s one less chance for an injury that could screw up our chances of winning where it actually means something.
Bah, humbug!
"To play for me you have to have some balls." - Ozzie Guillen (6/30/09)
Richard is good and deserves longer outings
He isn’t ridiculously young that he needs a pitch count or a ceiling to what he can pitch.
No one goes there anymore, it's too crowded. - Yogi Berra
Agree! I was kind of hoping he'd be left in for about 125 pitches or so, just to make sure
the bullpen was well rested for the Cleveland series. I don’t care what the rest of the guys here thing: Grobble and Porjeda deserve to NOT see game action. Especially since Richards isn’t ridiculously young as you say.
"It's better to be an optimist who is sometimes wrong than a pessimist who is always right"
yes
Gobble is horrible, I dont even know why we have him on our active roster. The only reason I could see why they pulled Richard was because as The Cheat said, that he had 85 pitches in 3.2 innings, and had allowed 8 hits, 4 runs. He was a little off and Guillen probably thought that he might allow more runs
No one goes there anymore, it's too crowded. - Yogi Berra
And they are starting him on short
rest Thursday . . .
"I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it."
so that might be a game where he has pitch count
I remember the days when no one cared about pitch count, it was get em out’
I was appalled to see that peoplegive pitchers contracts and say get me 6 good innings, it used to be 7 or 8
No one goes there anymore, it's too crowded. - Yogi Berra
they also didn't used to invest millions of dollars in the players
" Do you guys know people like you are the reason I wouldn’t come on for exstended periods of time. You rui the baseball blogging expieriance."
by trademaker on May 30, 2009 10:31 PM PDT
1908
Pitcher Ed Walsh was paid $3,500 for going 40-15 with an ERA of 1.42 while pitching 464 innings.
Now THAT’S a ROI!
"To play for me you have to have some balls." - Ozzie Guillen (6/30/09)
Penny Wise
Imagine what he would be payed today….$30 million at the very least
No one goes there anymore, it's too crowded. - Yogi Berra
he probably wouldn't be as good of a pitcher if he was playing today
" Do you guys know people like you are the reason I wouldn’t come on for exstended periods of time. You rui the baseball blogging expieriance."
by trademaker on May 30, 2009 10:31 PM PDT
but if you toned down those numbers a little
28-10, 2.30 ERA, 200 INN+
No one goes there anymore, it's too crowded. - Yogi Berra
Exactly...if he was 1/2 as productive he'd command top $
"To play for me you have to have some balls." - Ozzie Guillen (6/30/09)
And, if he was playing today, it would be amazing
because he’d be 128 years old.
"To play for me you have to have some balls." - Ozzie Guillen (6/30/09)
by tailgater on Jul 6, 2009 1:45 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
you're missing something much more important
the parks are smaller. they play with live balls. the spitball is outlawed. hitters were protective gear and are better than they used to be. pro athletes are greatly improved from what they were when the league was founded.
" Do you guys know people like you are the reason I wouldn’t come on for exstended periods of time. You rui the baseball blogging expieriance."
by trademaker on May 30, 2009 10:31 PM PDT
i did miss somthing important
Me and my a couple of my friends discussed that people are getting bigger and stronger, eventually we will have to move the walls in the parks back further so everyone doesnt hit homers as easy
No one goes there anymore, it's too crowded. - Yogi Berra
Nope...they moved them in like at New Yankee Stadium
Fans love homers…so if that’s what puts butts in the seats, then the walls get moved in.
"To play for me you have to have some balls." - Ozzie Guillen (6/30/09)
Don't compare to today's pitchers -
compare Big Ed to his peer group. He. Kicked. Ass. And I would venture to say would probably do so today.
We’re a pack of a-holes.
by rhythm on Apr 14, 2009 1:45 PM EDT
i was thinking that too
but not that many people agree with me
No one goes there anymore, it's too crowded. - Yogi Berra
because it's the same as thinking babe ruth would hit as many homeruns if he were to play in this modern era
" Do you guys know people like you are the reason I wouldn’t come on for exstended periods of time. You rui the baseball blogging expieriance."
by trademaker on May 30, 2009 10:31 PM PDT
no, he probably wouldn't
pitchers didn’t know how to pitch to a guy like that back in the day. he was a novelty. he was also quite the fat fuck. he would probably just be an average power hitter.
" Do you guys know people like you are the reason I wouldn’t come on for exstended periods of time. You rui the baseball blogging expieriance."
by trademaker on May 30, 2009 10:31 PM PDT
hmm true
but he was hitting the ball 500 feet during the deadish ball era, he would easily hit 50 homers now
No one goes there anymore, it's too crowded. - Yogi Berra
and pitcher's probably weren't throwing upwards of 90 mph
or splitters, sliders, cutters, sinkers, knucklecurves, slurves or forkballs. they also didn’t have highly specialized bullpens.
" Do you guys know people like you are the reason I wouldn’t come on for exstended periods of time. You rui the baseball blogging expieriance."
by trademaker on May 30, 2009 10:31 PM PDT
But there were fewer teams
so the talent wasn’t as watered down, so the batter were all actual major leaguers as opposed to AAAA players.
Never dis Big Ed!
"To play for me you have to have some balls." - Ozzie Guillen (6/30/09)
yes
but I dont think a bullpen would call in a lefty specialist to face the Babe every time
No one goes there anymore, it's too crowded. - Yogi Berra
yes
but I dont think a bullpen would call in a lefty specialist to face the Babe every time
No one goes there anymore, it's too crowded. - Yogi Berra
You are a lunatic.
While pitching, he was amongst the best of his time. when hitting, he was amongst the greatest of all time. What makes you think he’d be some jamoke today? Compare peer group to peer group!
We’re a pack of a-holes.
by rhythm on Apr 14, 2009 1:45 PM EDT
this whole thing started as an argument about pitchers not pitching as much as they used to
so peer group to peer group isn’t happening
" Do you guys know people like you are the reason I wouldn’t come on for exstended periods of time. You rui the baseball blogging expieriance."
by trademaker on May 30, 2009 10:31 PM PDT
Arguments have a way or morphing to other topics, don't they?
See if you can identify the source in this quote:
pitchers didn’t know how to pitch to a guy like that back in the day. he was a novelty. he was also quite the fat fuck. he would probably just be an average power hitter.
" Do you guys know people like you are the reason I wouldn’t come on for exstended periods of time. You rui the baseball blogging expieriance."
by trademaker on May 30, 2009 10:31 PM PDT
by U-God on Jul 6, 2009 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We’re a pack of a-holes.
by rhythm on Apr 14, 2009 1:45 PM EDT
the greatness
" Do you guys know people like you are the reason I wouldn’t come on for exstended periods of time. You rui the baseball blogging expieriance."
by trademaker on May 30, 2009 10:31 PM PDT
and by that i mean me
not segregation
" Do you guys know people like you are the reason I wouldn’t come on for exstended periods of time. You rui the baseball blogging expieriance."
by trademaker on May 30, 2009 10:31 PM PDT
um, segregation?
Always bet on black!
by onlysoxfaninboston on Jul 6, 2009 2:47 PM CDT up reply actions
don't get all pissy just because you taught him that spitball
" Do you guys know people like you are the reason I wouldn’t come on for exstended periods of time. You rui the baseball blogging expieriance."
by trademaker on May 30, 2009 10:31 PM PDT
by U-God on Jul 6, 2009 2:02 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
hahaha!
that was awesome u-god!
The greatest trick the White Sox ever pulled was convincing their fan base that "Ozzieball" ever existed.
White Sox news, Minor Leagues updates and more
hmm, i wonder what is wrong with the assumption underlying this post.
http://www.tangotiger.net/pitchCountsKoufax.html
White Sox Minor League Updates: http://twitter.com/SouthSidelarry
thank you that changed my opinion
But Koufax was dominate, but I get your point.
No one goes there anymore, it's too crowded. - Yogi Berra
i'm a little slow...
where did those pitch counts come from? (yes, it cites retrosheet, but where?)
where do they get the pitch counts?
are other pitchers available?
What a hot mess. ;)
Just [expletive] Fuck It.
by homesickalien on Jul 6, 2009 1:50 PM CDT up reply actions
I hardly even recognized you with that slick new sig.
Just [expletive] Fuck It.
by homesickalien on Jul 6, 2009 2:45 PM CDT up reply actions
Carroll
Quick Cuts: Carlos Quentin went 2-for-3 in his first rehab game at Triple-A Charlotte. Observers say he looked good hitting but was still “limpy” both in the field and on the bases. Making it tougher is the lack of the DH option once he’s back, because that job is Jim Thome’s. …
"I'm just here to provide street cred and a rosy outlook"- translation - unemployed life coach
"Limpy" is not a manly term.
I would be wrathful if someone described me as “limpy”.
We’re a pack of a-holes.
by rhythm on Apr 14, 2009 1:45 PM EDT
Or even "Wimpy". Oh wait...
But how many people even get the hamburger reference these days?
"It's better to be an optimist who is sometimes wrong than a pessimist who is always right"
by Chiburb on Jul 6, 2009 1:35 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
at least a few
" Do you guys know people like you are the reason I wouldn’t come on for exstended periods of time. You rui the baseball blogging expieriance."
by trademaker on May 30, 2009 10:31 PM PDT
I will gladly recommend your comment on Tuesday for a rec today.
Is it still the fourth inning?
by vince_ on Jul 6, 2009 1:48 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
No - deal him while there is still value!!! :)
Remember when "Cuban Pride" meant something...
That was the "oh wait..."
"It's better to be an optimist who is sometimes wrong than a pessimist who is always right"
Is there room for Q on the roster? Might be good trade bait
He’s still young, has tremendous upside if he can put these injuries behind him and don’t worry I’m totally kidding but waiting to see if anyone responds without reading the whole sentence
¡signature!
farney to enjoy bbq, freel + $$ picked up by royals for PTBNL
These events have me frightened and on the verge of evacuating my bowels.
uh oh...how is Kenny going to counter that big move?
Formerly Crede's Crew
usually, when I send that in a text, I write it as one word
URGay
I highly recommend it
Formerly Crede's Crew
This puts them over the top!
Whatever shall we do?
We’re a pack of a-holes.
by rhythm on Apr 14, 2009 1:45 PM EDT
Funny. and you guys think Im delusional sometimes.....
fanpost on Bless you boys.
White Sox
-Second best ERA, 7th best FIP, tied for second in WHIP. They have an unusually low BABIP so their rotation numbers should start looking worse. For now, we will just breakdown what is a top 5 rotation, at least, in the AL. They have gone with six starters this year. I will count Clayton Richard and Bartolo Colon as combined #4 starters for them. Unlike the Mariners, the Sox only have one true front of the rotation starter in Mark Buehrle and his 3.26 ERA. John Danks and Gavin Floyd have been inning eaters, but they have similar ERA numbers to Porcello. So, we have a better top 3 than they do. Their #4 starters in Bartolo Colon and Richard have an ERA of roughly 4.3 so that is one advantage they have over us. However, like Seattle, their 5th starter is not good. Jose Contreras has a 5.19 ERA and has only been slightly better than Galaragga. To recap: we are fortunate to have Verlander and Jackson, while they basically have 1 #1 starter and 3 #3 starters. There #5 starter has struggled just like ours.
"I'm just here to provide street cred and a rosy outlook"- translation - unemployed life coach
I like how it's assumed Jackson and Porcello will maintain their current performance
And also Danks ERA is not similar to Porcello (especially park adjusted I would assume). And looking at Porcello’s K/BB and H/9 numbers I’m surprised his ERA isn’t higher.
Anyhow, we all know the Twins will win it anyway.
by hitlesswonder on Jul 6, 2009 2:55 PM CDT up reply actions
Well Porcello won't anyway. He's already sliding.
Jackson though. Man, he’s been very very good. That was a raping by the Tigers.
"I'm just here to provide street cred and a rosy outlook"- translation - unemployed life coach
SSS, TD, SSS.
Fer Chrissakes. Joyce isn’t even with the parent club yet. Fer Chrissakes.
We’re a pack of a-holes.
by rhythm on Apr 14, 2009 1:45 PM EDT
Yeah it was an overstatement
But I think they will regret that trade big time.
"I'm just here to provide street cred and a rosy outlook"- translation - unemployed life coach
His failed cup of coffee will not alter my sentence. So there.
Plus, Jackson’s performance has been the subject of heated debate re: Fangraphs, IIRC. He is playing out his a$$. I liked him and would’ve liked to have seen him as #4 starter the beginning of this year (and am on record). Just like Tdogg liked O-Dog (now an All-Star!). Sigh.
We’re a pack of a-holes.
by rhythm on Apr 14, 2009 1:45 PM EDT
Wow think there is something to pitching quickly?
Buerhle’s individual DEF EFF is .743
Surprising even for him with this year’s defense.
"I'm just here to provide street cred and a rosy outlook"- translation - unemployed life coach
so is like 0.743 good? bad?
i have no idea what that number means relative to other pitchers in the league..
Always bet on black!
by onlysoxfaninboston on Jul 6, 2009 2:53 PM CDT up reply actions
Its top ten for all baseball.
The team’s is .694 which has been rising but still ranks in the middle.
"I'm just here to provide street cred and a rosy outlook"- translation - unemployed life coach
It's interesting that it's middle of the pack
I would have assumed it was bad, bad, bad.
by hitlesswonder on Jul 6, 2009 2:58 PM CDT up reply actions
somewhere I beat my head against the wall....
"I'm just here to provide street cred and a rosy outlook"- translation - unemployed life coach
thanks
for a sec i thought pickoffs would have something to do with it, but he has none this year, might want to double check that…
Always bet on black!
by onlysoxfaninboston on Jul 6, 2009 2:58 PM CDT up reply actions
noticed it earlier this year.
So yeah its been up there. Way higher than normal for him (anyone for that matter) Not exactly good news as far as regression.
"I'm just here to provide street cred and a rosy outlook"- translation - unemployed life coach
Contrast Richard at .677
And you get articles on how he really didnt pitch that bad but the final line looks ugly.
"I'm just here to provide street cred and a rosy outlook"- translation - unemployed life coach
Cannot field the bunt. Cannot pick off.
We’re a pack of a-holes.
by rhythm on Apr 14, 2009 1:45 PM EDT
Garlandish
Richards seems like he’s got decent stuff, but like an early Garland, he doesn’t know how to get out of jams. I think he’s going to figure it out, everybody just needs to be patient.
Tired of being patient - I want another parade!!! Its been 4 years already, enough is enough.
Remember when "Cuban Pride" meant something...
LA's having one today, I believe.
A death parade.
We’re a pack of a-holes.
by rhythm on Apr 14, 2009 1:45 PM EDT
At the age they are dropping lately - better watch out!
Remember when "Cuban Pride" meant something...
(Chuckles to self.)
Don’t think I didn’t notice. A “local hero” died last week saving his teenaged son from drowning. Front-page news here, quite the pillar of the community. 52 years young.
More for me!
We’re a pack of a-holes.
by rhythm on Apr 14, 2009 1:45 PM EDT
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