It's 1AM. Do You Know Where Your Off-Day Recap Is?
It's been a crazy 36 hours at Cheat headquarters, and I'm headed out of town and will miss Friday/Saturday's games. I'll get the gamethread up today, and trust that you'll charge the appropriate cover for the kegger you throw in my absence.
Suggested Topic: White Sox' season-to-date MVP
almost 3 years ago
The Cheat
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in reference to suggested topic:
pods, case closed
new discussion topic: is furbs serious or being sarcastic with above statement
that would involve a whole bunch of skull fucking.-BoeJouma
scott linebrink
uh, uh, (fuck) nick swisher
etc.
etc.
Pablo Ozuna
etc.
etc.
Timo Perez
-Jeeves Life in the Cell
Another Wire thread
Anthony Bourdain goes to Baltimore and breaks bread with Snoop. Later on he snarfs down a lake trout sandwich (authenticity alert – he doesn’t pair it with Utz Crab Chips).
Like a sausage, but with cracks on its surface.
Snoop is too fucking cool
“I gotta place in New York, Miami and Baltimore”
Like a sausage, but with cracks on its surface.
by ChicagoPete on Aug 21, 2009 10:46 AM CDT up reply actions
You fool, you left out eating with the real Jay Landsman
aka Lt. Mello.
The Chicago Bulls.....the more profitable Los Angeles Clippers.
by Ozzie Montana on Aug 21, 2009 10:26 AM CDT up reply actions
You better add "clearly" to that before the Wire fanatics lock you up in a rowhouse.
Just search No Reservations: Rust Belt on YouTube.
The Chicago Bulls.....the more profitable Los Angeles Clippers.
by Ozzie Montana on Aug 21, 2009 10:40 AM CDT up reply actions
Are you saying here that the Landsman portrayed in the show was just like the "real Landsman"
because I assume you know the deal with the actor/real-life Landsman
it was the "real" Landsman
I had this episode sitting in my DVR and finally watched it last night. I told my wife, “If he’s in Baltimore he better talk about the Wire”, and then the whole Baltimore segment was all Wire all the time. Landsman was on first, he’s pretty boring though – Snoop is the star.
Like a sausage, but with cracks on its surface.
by ChicagoPete on Aug 21, 2009 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions
the Detroit segment was pooty goo too
His episodes are wildly inconsistent, but this was one of the better ones.
Like a sausage, but with cracks on its surface.
by ChicagoPete on Aug 21, 2009 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions
Still haven't forgiven him for putting Mancow in the Chicago episode
The Chicago Bulls.....the more profitable Los Angeles Clippers.
by Ozzie Montana on Aug 21, 2009 11:00 AM CDT up reply actions
yeah, i saw that, i think bourdain's a dipshit anyway
Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa... Time out Greenbay. Tell that fucking bullshit to the tourists
by onlysoxfaninboston on Aug 21, 2009 11:41 AM CDT up reply actions
i don't think he's that funny, that's just me though
Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa... Time out Greenbay. Tell that fucking bullshit to the tourists
by onlysoxfaninboston on Aug 21, 2009 11:49 AM CDT up reply actions
he doesn't have actor training
which shows. but i think he’s an interesting guy who in contrast to a lot of foodie shit lacks pretension.
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true dat
Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa... Time out Greenbay. Tell that fucking bullshit to the tourists
by onlysoxfaninboston on Aug 21, 2009 12:12 PM CDT up reply actions
Oh, and if you haven't seen the DC episode George Pelecanos is in that one
Takes him to Ben’s Chili Bowl.
The Chicago Bulls.....the more profitable Los Angeles Clippers.
by Ozzie Montana on Aug 21, 2009 11:49 AM CDT up reply actions
believe it or not, i didn't
he’s in the credits so frequently that i made an ass out of u and me.
THIS STORY ONLY ENDS ONE WAY
no the real jay landsman played bunny colvin's 2nd in command
Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa... Time out Greenbay. Tell that fucking bullshit to the tourists
by onlysoxfaninboston on Aug 21, 2009 11:39 AM CDT up reply actions
need to watch your mouth first and then you don't have to correct yourself boy
Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa... Time out Greenbay. Tell that fucking bullshit to the tourists
by onlysoxfaninboston on Aug 21, 2009 11:48 AM CDT up reply actions
you need to get schooled on the wire son
Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa... Time out Greenbay. Tell that fucking bullshit to the tourists
by onlysoxfaninboston on Aug 21, 2009 11:40 AM CDT up reply actions
Podsednik is worthy of consideration
My MVP ballot:
1- Gordon Beckham. Savior. Lived up to his billing.
2- Scott Podsednik. Giving Pods credit for anything seems like the ultimate cave-in to meathead-ism (2005! Grinders! The little things!), but he’s been a very pleasant surprise this year. His bat has won more games than his glove lost. Please don’t re-sign him next year.
3- Paul Konerko. Except for the last three weeks, his offensive turnaround in ‘09 made up for Quentin’s lost season. Give this man a statue, dammit!
4 (honorary) – Kenny Williams. Pulled off the Peavy trade without gutting the minor league system. Got Rios off of waivers. Even if the Sox miss this year – that’s a damn good core going forward.
5- Mark Buehrle. Perfect game. He’ll remember July 23rd for the rest of his life, and so will you.
No D-Wise? WTF? What a catch!
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
by BobbySouthSide on Aug 21, 2009 7:27 AM CDT up reply actions
He was a defensive replacement. His job was to catch the ball.
Would that catch be any less spectacular if the score was 5-2? If he had just hauled in a Linebrink gopher ball? If he saved a run while the Sox were down 20-1?
WHAT?! That was the play of the century!
Without Wise we Buerhle doesn’t get the Perfect Game…Wise should get a lifetime contract and spot on the roster. (Tongue in Cheek)
I was just busting your balls.
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
by BobbySouthSide on Aug 21, 2009 9:56 AM CDT up reply actions
So was Jimmy Carter
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
by BobbySouthSide on Aug 21, 2009 9:59 AM CDT up reply actions
IS
Forgot he hasn’t been buried yet.
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
by BobbySouthSide on Aug 21, 2009 10:00 AM CDT up reply actions
AJ
He has had a stellar season so far. He’s caught a ton of games this season and he is letting the Sox go easy on Tyler Flowers. Flowers is developing well down in the minors and the Sox don’t need to bring him up too early.
Honorable Mention: Clayrron Porichards – Sealed the deal for the Peavy acquisition.
I go home and get in her face - Pods
Another Honorable Mention: DJ Carrasco
How many times has he kept the Sox in the game after the 5th starter of the day imploded?
very true
We’ve won quite a few games that we shouldn’t have on 5th starter day because he stopped the bleeding.
Like a sausage, but with cracks on its surface.
good point about Richards
he gave us enough quality starts towards the end of his tenure to enitise the Padres JUST enough to take a chance on him.
Thankyou Clayton!
Oz+Coop+Hawk= baseball trinity
Padres were ready to grab Clayton in May
It was Peavy that killed it so I guess we can thank Clayton for not decreaing his trade value between then and July 31st but it isn’t like the Padres had to sold on Richard
by Scotty Ballgame on Aug 21, 2009 9:39 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
I would like to go with AJ. He has hit well this year
then i take a look and he only has 36 RBI’s in late august? Can’t vote for that. Beckham has been up since June 4th and passed that total a long while ago.
Kenwo4life=ratings
I gotta go with Beckham
No comment necessary.
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
MVP- Gavin Floyd
most consistent pitcher we have. Always keeps you in the game besides a rough first month
2nd- Jermaine Dye- Until his recent slump JD was hitting lots of bombs and knocking in lots of runs. hopefully he picks it back up
3rd- Gordon Beckham- Gave us another threat in the lineup that was soooo badly missed.
Kenwo4life=ratings
i agree with jean claude van kenwo
Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa... Time out Greenbay. Tell that fucking bullshit to the tourists
by onlysoxfaninboston on Aug 21, 2009 8:26 AM CDT up reply actions
Way to Go
you just jinxed Floyd for tonight’s game!
"Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it." - Mark Twain
KenWo's right about Gavin.
Beckham, Thome, Alexei, AJ and Konerko have all been about the same value and Gavin’s been the best starter by far. JD might be the worst fielding RF in the majors according to UZR. He really really needs to be a DH.
THIS STORY ONLY ENDS ONE WAY
jd doesn't get to a lot of balls. the ones he does get to he rarely misses.
yes he may die one day with his crazy dives, but some of his throws have been spectacular this year. I know he doesn’t cover as much ground- but i think he is less of a problem than gimpy Q and Peter Pan are out there.
that being said i don’t look into the defensive stats and all of that…. but just from the eye I would rather a fly ball be hit to him than pods
Kenwo4life=ratings
just goes to show how terrible our OF defense has been.
though for some reason, UZR likes Pods this year. i prefer Q!‘s D to JD’s, but that’s not saying much.
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its nice to have rios out in center now.
he just makes everything look so much easier. i used to get jumpy every time someone hit a fly to center… I still have that feeling but then breath a sigh of relief when I see good ol’ 51 gliding towards the ball.
Kenwo4life=ratings
yeah too bad he was in right the other day.
that pisses me off and better not keep happening.
Castro ran into the dugout and told pitcher Jose Contreras, "He hasn't missed a spot all day. I think hes going to do it." Contreras replied, "Shut the fuck up."
Matt Thorton by a landslide
how many games has he come in with runners in scoring position, due to the ineffectiveness of Linebrink among others and shut down the opponents.
Oz+Coop+Hawk= baseball trinity
believe it or not
that’s been quantified. there’s this place called fangraphs.
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Actually if you look at that place called fangraphs
there is significant evidence to suport his contention. Matt Thornton leads this team in WPA. Now some may say that relievers shouldn’t benefit totally from the high leverage situations that they’re placed in, so I don’t think he’s the MVP. But there is a lot more supporting evidnece that he’s the MVP than there is that Pods is the MVP.
I’m going with Buerhle. He is (I believe) unfairly penalized by fangraphs because they use FIP. Yes he’s been somewhat lucky this year with BABIP, but he consistently outperforms his FIP (by about .4 over his career). And since those are real outs he’s getting his ERA has value even if it may not reflect his future performance as well.
larrys fortune cookie: you will learn much and have the advantage of not reading my pompous responses.
i believe colin was answering about
“how many games has he come in with runners in scoring position, due to the ineffectiveness of Linebrink among others and shut down the opponents”
brndnprkns: I'm pretty sure the "badass" value of your life is closer to Gigli than The Dark Knight
by whitesoxmatt on Aug 21, 2009 10:16 AM CDT up reply actions
b-r would have been a better link though, really.
i was trying to 2 birds with 1 stone and ended up doing neither all that well.
THIS STORY ONLY ENDS ONE WAY
nice points raised, i've been down on redneck though since the perfect game
Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa... Time out Greenbay. Tell that fucking bullshit to the tourists
by onlysoxfaninboston on Aug 21, 2009 10:26 AM CDT up reply actions
if you mapped FIP to RA
you’d find it’s about the same. ERA isn’t better than RA.
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Interesting
I agree that RA is better than ERA. But FIP is usually scaled to ERA. It appears that this is what fangraphs does for their listed FIPs (their FIPS are actually lower than THT’s which are clearly scaled to ERA). But fangraphs appears to use an unlisted FIP scaled to RA for it’s WAR calculations. Colin do you know a site that lists both RA and FIP scaled to RA? That would be the way to know if Buehrle’s RA consistently out performs his FIP (scaled to RA). His ERA clearly out-performs his FIP (scaled to ERA) though.
larrys fortune cookie: you will learn much and have the advantage of not reading my pompous responses.
Which "clearly" are you using?
Webster’s or SSS’?
We’re a pack of a-holes. And my tradition of contributing absolutely nothing to this site... continues.
by winningugly on Aug 21, 2009 12:39 PM CDT up reply actions
you could run the calculations yourself pretty easily
league average RA for a starter is available on B-R’s league splits. park factors are available there too, so you could adjust for park the new FIP outcome by dividing by the park factor. for reference, the common FIP formula is (13*HR+3*BB-2*K)/IP + X, where X sets the number to league average ERA. if you figured league average RA for each season, you’d be able to map it to RA instead. X is usually around 3.2, so it’d be like 3.6 or something for RA.
check statcorner (the dudes who invented tRA) maybe for a FIP scaled to RA. i assume that fangraphs “different” FIP is park corrected in the WAR or something like that. you might have to go back through some posts to figure out exactly what they’re doing. Dave Cameron’s FIP series should be in the glossary.
though even if his RA outperforms his FIP, you’re not isolating Buehrle’s performance unless you’re accounting for defense and park in RA, which is more or less the point of FIP. sussing that out would be a chore.
THIS STORY ONLY ENDS ONE WAY
No thanks
Yes I know what the point of FIP is. I also know how FIP is calculated and that if I had an extra hour to waste I could calculate his career and season by season FIP. I don’t have that time, but since you do I’d love to see the data. My point is that FIP is not perfect. There are some caveats to DIPS/FIP theory. There are certain pitchers that outperform DIPS/FIP secondary to causing more fieldable balls (kunckleballers for sure, certain soft-tossing lefties maybe). Looking at Buehrle’s incredibly consistent outperformance of FIP (at least based on ERA) I suspect he may be one of those rare pitchers. But I look forward to your study comparing FIP (scaled to RA) vs. RA to prove that wrong.
larrys fortune cookie: you will learn much and have the advantage of not reading my pompous responses.
"I don’t have that time, but since you do..."
bhoov FTW.
"Baseball is like church. Many attend, few understand."
— Leo Durocher
i don't think it's worth it.
fangraphs has him at a career 4 WAR type pitcher. that sounds right to me.
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and I'm not sure how I feel about WPA
i do believe in using leverage, since they’re intended to be used in such situations. WAR for relievers does have a leverage adjustment, but probably not enough of one for Thorny since he’s not a “closer”. even in WAR he’s worth 2.4 wins already, more than any of outside of AJ who’s overrated since there’s no catcher defense UZR. his D probably just about cancels out the position adjustment.
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Floyd has been awesome
but I’m going to have to go with Buehrle. I think he’s sorely underrated by quantification methods and he’s been just as good or better than Floyd with what he has.
"with what he has"
people really need to stop this “i can’t figure out how MB does it – his stuff isn’t that good”. he has the best changeup in baseball. that’s how he does it.
meaning, he doesn't get a lot of strikeouts and doesn't walk people
Floyd has the luxury of being able to do both. He doesn’t have the best changeup in baseball. Maybe he’s top three in location with it, for a random guess. Buehrle has Floyd in RA/9, innings and WHIP. I’m not going with WAR here. I do really like that Floyd has developed his slider to the point where he can throw it in any count and limit the HRs.
by Daniel Berlyn on Aug 21, 2009 9:32 AM CDT up reply actions
missing the point
Buehrle limits baserunners/ing, equals good
by Daniel Berlyn on Aug 21, 2009 9:57 AM CDT up reply actions
And then picks them off first/keeps them close.
Still can’t pitch over errors, though.
Will have to go with either Paulie or AJ. Pods has not been around for the entire season (and has given up as many runs as he’s created), Floyd goes out every 5th day (that’s what the Cy award is for) and becks, though providing a spark, has not been The Savior (and arrived in May, fer Chrissakes, IIRC). PK/AJ have been there all year, consistent, performing above expectation (and PK, esp. for the first half, beyond his historical first half, I think). Agree that Buehrls was close until the last 4 starts (plus, he’s a pitcher).
We’re a pack of a-holes. And my tradition of contributing absolutely nothing to this site... continues.
by winningugly on Aug 21, 2009 10:00 AM CDT up reply actions
beckham arrived thursday june 4th
i remember because it was my 2nd to last day of school and i felt compelled to ditch and bring my 1 1/2 year old to the Saviors first game.
Kenwo4life=ratings
As good as he's been, Beckham should not even be in MVP consideration. Really.
(billyok or Trooper quote)
by homesickalien on Aug 21, 2009 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions
maybe he should if you go by the good ol 'where would they be without him'
10 more weeks of josh or buttermitt? yikes.
But you could use that same argument for any of the other names being thrown out...where would we be without PK, AJ, MB, GF, Thorny....?
(billyok or Trooper quote)
by homesickalien on Aug 21, 2009 10:30 AM CDT up reply actions
IDK, but the fact that we weren't counting on either Pods or Beckham amplifies their success
by Daniel Berlyn on Aug 21, 2009 10:32 AM CDT up reply actions
btw, I think I might actually pick AJ
just arguing that becks is in the picture, especially with no clear standouts in the 5 or so names being thrown around.
we won't be able to quantify catcher defense even when we can
I’m going to assume he holds his weight blocking pitches and handling pitchers, not that I really care if I’m wrong
by Daniel Berlyn on Aug 21, 2009 10:44 AM CDT up reply actions
i disagree.
as does Tom Tango. catcher defense isn’t some unaccounted phantasm. the main aspect is throwing out runners, which he’s been bad at. all of the assorted metrics that folks have charted up rate him as poor defensively.
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throwing out runners has got to be really hard to quantify
with the number of different guys on the mound when guys are running, no?
Don't call it a comeback.
by Toonderstrook on Aug 21, 2009 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions
I'm not saying Pierzynski isn't mediocre by major league standards
I think the par for catcher defense has been ramped up in recent years. Throwing out runners at catcher has more variables than say, Ramirez’s lazy throws costing the team runs. Anyway, he’s comfortably bad. He doesn’t make a lot of errors. The on;y pitcher really good at limiting baserunning on the team is Buehrle and they just decide not to test him.
by Daniel Berlyn on Aug 21, 2009 11:05 AM CDT up reply actions
can't say any of the names being thrown around have defense to speak of.
paulie’s scoops are really it. we wouldn’t be able to trust any defensive metrics for 3/4 of a season anyways. jeter sucks! amirite?!
also the lack of defense is mostly why
one of the pitchers has to be MVP.
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maybe. hey, i also said 'I think I might' -- go pick on WU.
i really wouldn’t argue with any of buehrle, gavin, thorndog, aj, paulie, becks or even pods.
/noncommits
Paulie has defense.
So go with Paulie. Not with a pitcher for MVP. Certainly not a reliever with “holds”.
We’re a pack of a-holes. And my tradition of contributing absolutely nothing to this site... continues.
by winningugly on Aug 21, 2009 11:45 AM CDT up reply actions
I'd agree
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
by BobbySouthSide on Aug 21, 2009 11:49 AM CDT up reply actions
really certainly not?
if going with a pitcher i’d have to say thornton just for touching more close games in generally higher leverage situations.
Of course it does. But does that make them MVP or Pleasant Surprises?
Between those two, I’d still go with Pods.
Does Beckham have the very real potential to be MVP next year or in the future? Yes.
(billyok or Trooper quote)
by homesickalien on Aug 21, 2009 10:39 AM CDT up reply actions
Yep, totally worthless. Shoulda been DFA'd after 0-13.
:)
(billyok or Trooper quote)
by homesickalien on Aug 21, 2009 10:43 AM CDT up reply actions
All of those players should be producing, it's not unexpected
Beckham is 22 years old, hitting .297/.379/.477. The criteria for MVP means a lot of different things to people, I’m impressed with how good Gordon has been, staving off any chances of douche bag Fields or Betemit getting more playing time.
The Chicago Bulls.....the more profitable Los Angeles Clippers.
by Ozzie Montana on Aug 21, 2009 10:36 AM CDT up reply actions
Also...
ROY.
(billyok or Trooper quote)
by homesickalien on Aug 21, 2009 10:43 AM CDT up reply actions
i assume Kenny would have gone out and gotten someone
at least replacement level.
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yeah, like Ball Hall?
I love that they called him up so early.
Castro ran into the dugout and told pitcher Jose Contreras, "He hasn't missed a spot all day. I think hes going to do it." Contreras replied, "Shut the fuck up."
pods took june
Becks can take over after that
On that fly to right-center
I kinda expected JD to plow into Rios with an ATV.
EVERYBODY PICK US FOR 3RD OR 4TH SO I DINK WE DOIN POOTY GOO
Sox Machine
by Sox Machine on Aug 17, 2009 7:35 PM PDT reply recommended Unrec 3
??
He is my MVP. Many could argue with that and I could see there point – but not even in consideration? That is blasphemous!
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
by BobbySouthSide on Aug 21, 2009 10:23 AM CDT up reply actions
i think she's upset that the old god (her god) was replaced so quickly by the new savior.
Don't call it a comeback.
by Toonderstrook on Aug 21, 2009 10:25 AM CDT up reply actions
Kind of like Woody in "Toy Story"....got it!
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
by BobbySouthSide on Aug 21, 2009 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions
Just because he's impressed us, does not mean he is the most valuable player. His bat has been amazing, but he's had his fair share of costly problems at 3B (understandably, but still...).
For me, that is enough to remove him from consideration.
You are entitled to your opinion. Even if it’s clearly wrong. ;)
(billyok or Trooper quote)
by homesickalien on Aug 21, 2009 10:35 AM CDT up reply actions
Is that West coast elitism I smell?
by South Side Expat on Aug 21, 2009 10:38 AM CDT up reply actions
I am only associated to TWC by my mailing address. If anything, it's Chicago Superiority Syndrome.
Which I really do have.
:)
(billyok or Trooper quote)
by homesickalien on Aug 21, 2009 11:22 AM CDT up reply actions
Still looking to firebomb LL after CHINA's tweak last night?
We’re a pack of a-holes. And my tradition of contributing absolutely nothing to this site... continues.
by winningugly on Aug 21, 2009 12:24 PM CDT up reply actions
???? Any time I have visited any other SBN site, I have been perfectly respectful because unlike other people, I think it's class-less to troll other sites and it gives this site a bad name.
I politely said what I wanted to – that they didn’t need to attack me for not knowing a policy that wasn’t in place a year ago when I joined the site.
Who said anything about firebombing LL? furby, maybe…to which I replied telling him not to do that because it was an asshole thing to do and poorly represented SSS.
I don’t plan on commenting there ever again, unless entirely necessary. No matter how fun (and easy) it would be to antagonize.
If everyone recalls, I was carrying the JCM24 ban torch when he was out on other sites, giving us a bad name.
(billyok or Trooper quote)
by homesickalien on Aug 21, 2009 12:31 PM CDT up reply actions
I was jesting with you.
Furbs is the kinding, you were the match. Furbs is just looking for an excuse to go off. No one can be that happy all the time.
We’re a pack of a-holes. And my tradition of contributing absolutely nothing to this site... continues.
by winningugly on Aug 21, 2009 12:32 PM CDT up reply actions
Ok, Kenwo.
Don’t forget to floss and fuck off.
(billyok or Trooper quote)
by homesickalien on Aug 21, 2009 12:38 PM CDT up reply actions
just cuz i revealed your atheist type attitude towards are savior
no need to get snippy with me
Kenwo4life=ratings
School can't start fast enough.
We’re a pack of a-holes. And my tradition of contributing absolutely nothing to this site... continues.
by winningugly on Aug 21, 2009 12:43 PM CDT up reply actions
The funny thing is, nobody even mentioned/replied to/noticed my selection of PK until I said that Becks was not MVP.
What a can of worms that one opened.
(billyok or Trooper quote)
by homesickalien on Aug 21, 2009 12:45 PM CDT up reply actions
Get over yourself.
I said PK or AJ.
We’re a pack of a-holes. And my tradition of contributing absolutely nothing to this site... continues.
by winningugly on Aug 21, 2009 12:46 PM CDT up reply actions
aj is not the mvp.
an mvp doesn’t drive in 36 runs by late august. that is inexcusable.
Kenwo4life=ratings
nobody replied to anyone's really.
they’re all valid.
everyone replied to you saying becks was NOT valid. :)
Up here, yeah. But down there, the conversation took off after I said I didn't think Becks was in consideration.
(billyok or Trooper quote)
by homesickalien on Aug 21, 2009 12:50 PM CDT up reply actions
is sparkplug the name of her new line of experience enhancers?
Don't call it a comeback.
by Toonderstrook on Aug 21, 2009 12:53 PM CDT up reply actions
Pods is my sponsor and I'm using his likeness for the packaging.
(billyok or Trooper quote)
by homesickalien on Aug 21, 2009 12:57 PM CDT up reply actions
i wonder if pk, masher, jd, and aj would
scoot a little quicker if they were forced to, um, “wear” a spark plug on the base paths.
Don't call it a comeback.
by Toonderstrook on Aug 21, 2009 12:59 PM CDT up reply actions
Cokie, pls.
We’re a pack of a-holes. And my tradition of contributing absolutely nothing to this site... continues.
by winningugly on Aug 21, 2009 12:54 PM CDT up reply actions
It's a logical starting off point
Considering you were championing Paulie.
It’s not like we’re attacking you for saying Pods is not worthy of consideration.
The Chicago Bulls.....the more profitable Los Angeles Clippers.
by Ozzie Montana on Aug 21, 2009 12:53 PM CDT up reply actions
I understand why. Just pointing out.
(billyok or Trooper quote)
by homesickalien on Aug 21, 2009 12:56 PM CDT up reply actions
Absolutely.
(billyok or Trooper quote)
by homesickalien on Aug 21, 2009 10:45 AM CDT up reply actions
I think he can learn how to react to hard hits better
hands and accuracy have come a long way
by Daniel Berlyn on Aug 21, 2009 10:46 AM CDT up reply actions
yeah he's improved quickly.
but I still think he’s inital reaction is too slow.
"Oh well back to work"
too slow compared to whom?
way slower than Crede or Inge, but I think he’s about average and getting better.
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Getting better. He's got my vote for MVP in '10. Book it!
(billyok or Trooper quote)
by homesickalien on Aug 21, 2009 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions
Purely Pete's eyeball test
You could be right. I have seen a lot of Crede and Inge and could be jaded. It just seems his initial dives are a tick slow.
"Oh well back to work"
Just about everyone on the team has had costly fielding errors
Beckham has had some really good plays at 3B as well. He also is begining to turn the DP at firecracker speed.
Lastly, insulting Beckham’s fielding ability and thus using that as a crutch, in my book is a sin. This is clearly going against one of the ten commandments by using our saviours name in vain. It is recommended that you do 5 Our Fathers and 11 Hail Mary’s.
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
by BobbySouthSide on Aug 21, 2009 10:43 AM CDT up reply actions
"Still can’t pitch over errors, though."
that’s the lack of strikeouts more than anything.
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Surprisingly, he's limiting the damage more than Floyd this year
by Daniel Berlyn on Aug 21, 2009 10:42 AM CDT up reply actions
no disagreement here
not sure what you think I’m trying to argue… that he should be considered better because he isn’t really good? That wouldn’t make sense. I’m saying that everything he’s done this year should be considered more valuable than what Floyd has done even if quantification metrics don’t back it up.
by Daniel Berlyn on Aug 21, 2009 10:25 AM CDT up reply actions
i've got more confidence in Floyd than I do in Buehrle.
Buehrle has been very good though. It is too bad John Danks isn’t in this discussion
Kenwo4life=ratings
Its great he's not
and with Peavy added into the discussion. Think how freaking good our rotation is the next 2 years.
"Oh well back to work"
it just breaks down too often.
depth is almost as valuable as talent.
by Daniel Berlyn on Aug 21, 2009 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions
do you think this is more because of
a) coop fixing mechanical errors that would lead to injury?
b) ozzie handling the staff well?
c) herm being really good at what he does?
i figure it must be a combo of the 3, but which is the most important to the sox constantly having healthy pitchers
brndnprkns: I'm pretty sure the "badass" value of your life is closer to Gigli than The Dark Knight
by whitesoxmatt on Aug 21, 2009 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions
there's also the possibility of
picking guys who have a health skill, which I think is probably the most important factor. iirc, the Sox don’t pick up guys with arm injury problems unless we’re talking about back end fodder. i think Todd Ritchie might have something to do with that.
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breaking down can mean a lot of things
poor performance being one. You might lose a tick of velo or movement on your pitches over the course of a year. Maybe you’re having trouble getting hitters to bite like they used to. I think the Sox are set up very well set up but I’d just as soon see KW keep going out and getting any pitcher who’ll sign. No one could have imagined Garcia actually making a start a few months ago.
by Daniel Berlyn on Aug 21, 2009 11:09 AM CDT up reply actions
the Sox have a pretty remarkable track record with pitchers.
and i suppose it could be luck, but outside of Contreras’ freak ankle thing (from which he came back to be himself way faster than expected), I’m inclined to call it a skill.
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I think you answered this already
I think that when a pitcher shows poor mechanics and/or stuff decline that they see if they can’t get something nice for him, ie McCarthy/Garcia/Garland
by Daniel Berlyn on Aug 21, 2009 3:52 PM CDT up reply actions
If votes count for Ozzie
then I am voting for Kenny Williams. Replenished a depleted farm system, got Rios for nothing, convinced Peavy to come here
by Scotty Ballgame on Aug 21, 2009 9:49 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
rec'd
Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa... Time out Greenbay. Tell that fucking bullshit to the tourists
by onlysoxfaninboston on Aug 21, 2009 10:28 AM CDT up reply actions
i'll give him half on the convincing peavy part.
i reckon the padres’ awful record, ownership issues, and no end of suckiness in sight gets the other half.
Don't call it a comeback.
by Toonderstrook on Aug 21, 2009 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions
full credit
If KW waits till offseason he probably competes with a few more teams willing to deal. Dodgers for one.
"Oh well back to work"
didn't even peavy say that aside from the sox showing so much love, the padres going into the shit
played a role in saying yes in july after he’d said no in may?
Don't call it a comeback.
by Toonderstrook on Aug 21, 2009 10:32 AM CDT up reply actions
Yes
But remember KW’s greatest feat was the way he handled initial rejection. This is where I think he’s grown a great deal. He never blasted or insulted Peavy. Kept in touch with Towers and basically wined and dined him into accepting. He could have held out till the off season and looked for a more “desirable” place. I think KW was aces here.
"Oh well back to work"
i'm not taking all of the credit away from kenny...
but if the padres had trended up after the initial rejection, rather than sinking further to 20 under .500 when he finally accepted, i’m not sure he says yes, no matter what kenny does.
Don't call it a comeback.
by Toonderstrook on Aug 21, 2009 10:45 AM CDT up reply actions
if the Padres had gotten lucky for a couple months you mean?
if Tdogg’s right about KW being in Peavy’s ear (and I hadn’t read anything to that effect), I’m pretty sure he could have laid that one out for him. the structural problems are still there.
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yeah, if they'd gotten lucky.
all the problems were there in may, too.
Don't call it a comeback.
by Toonderstrook on Aug 21, 2009 11:04 AM CDT up reply actions
my candidates
1.) Gordon Beckham – Filled the 3rd base blackhole and has been everything we expected.
2.) Matt Thornton – The only reliever I feel supremely confident in.
3.) AJ Pierzynski – Above average production out of our Catcher.
4.) Scott Podsednik – I still think his good run was fluke, but he still has been a solid leadoff hitter for most of the year.
5.) Mark Buehrle – He’d be higher if it wasn’t for his last 4 starts, but that perfect game was nice.
Honorable Mentions: Floyd, Nix, Konerko & Thome.
Captain Kong
For heroics at the plate, but also incredible defense.
He’s had his work cut out for him at 1B this year, and he has saved us many times.
(billyok or Trooper quote)
i hate kong
oh wait…i don’t anymore
Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa... Time out Greenbay. Tell that fucking bullshit to the tourists
by onlysoxfaninboston on Aug 21, 2009 10:28 AM CDT up reply actions
"hasn't been as brutal."
Brutal, Kenwo.
Give the man some fucking credit.
(billyok or Trooper quote)
by homesickalien on Aug 21, 2009 10:40 AM CDT up reply actions
Beckham has been better than Konerko since His arrival
and you’re hating on Him….. so if i choose to say the captain is a douche than so be it :)
Kenwo4life=ratings
becks has been 9th in the AL in ops since the break
10th in july, 15th in august.
closest soxes:
paulie 17th in july, pods 33rd in august.
Misses the first 2 months of the season =/=
MVP.
We’re a pack of a-holes. And my tradition of contributing absolutely nothing to this site... continues.
by winningugly on Aug 21, 2009 12:13 PM CDT up reply actions
Intangibles.
And he’s been dinged up. A little rest (one day off) and he homers. Rest him a bit more the coming couple of weeks. He’ll be fine.
We’re a pack of a-holes. And my tradition of contributing absolutely nothing to this site... continues.
by winningugly on Aug 21, 2009 12:17 PM CDT up reply actions
And you didn't answer the Becks premise.
He has not had a Sabathia-like influence (Brewers last year) or Sutcliffe (1984 Cubs) to where he has so dominated to have the 2 month absence ovveridden.
We’re a pack of a-holes. And my tradition of contributing absolutely nothing to this site... continues.
by winningugly on Aug 21, 2009 12:18 PM CDT up reply actions
I wonder what sox record with/out beckham and with/out paulie. I bet far greater difference in the becks numbers.
shit stats for general comparison, but becks 37 runs and 44 rbi in 59 games (since his first) suggest he’s been pretty useful, no?
Agreed.
MVP for that time frame. Not the season.
We’re a pack of a-holes. And my tradition of contributing absolutely nothing to this site... continues.
by winningugly on Aug 21, 2009 12:29 PM CDT up reply actions
and if you haven't noticed, i'll play devils advocate with anyone's pick.
also, I think I change my pick to thorndog. I can find the least wrong with him.
Noticed?
Who are you again? ;)
And I have no idea of what you refer in describing this Devil’s Advocate concept. I am a God-fearing man.
We’re a pack of a-holes. And my tradition of contributing absolutely nothing to this site... continues.
by winningugly on Aug 21, 2009 12:43 PM CDT up reply actions
oops, hope I didn't confuse you with the typo in the last word of my subject.
by Trooper on Aug 21, 2009 12:49 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Rec'd. LOL.
We’re a pack of a-holes. And my tradition of contributing absolutely nothing to this site... continues.
by winningugly on Aug 21, 2009 12:50 PM CDT up reply actions
you must be feeling better today. was it e-gus' card?
Don't call it a comeback.
by Toonderstrook on Aug 21, 2009 12:52 PM CDT up reply actions
New day, new attitude.
Work sucked yesterday. Returned from a 5 day conference to an 85 degree office, a “cookied”-up computer, and a sensitive secretary. Amongst other things.
We’re a pack of a-holes. And my tradition of contributing absolutely nothing to this site... continues.
That's us.
Not like the rest of America. Consider yourself fortunate.
We’re a pack of a-holes. And my tradition of contributing absolutely nothing to this site... continues.
all ten of you
who are young enough not to be perplexed that you can make phone calls without being patched through by sarah
Don't call it a comeback.
by Toonderstrook on Aug 21, 2009 1:13 PM CDT up reply actions
You are having stellar back-to-back games, Toonder.
We’re a pack of a-holes. And my tradition of contributing absolutely nothing to this site... continues.
the konerko slump will set in any time now.
Don't call it a comeback.
by Toonderstrook on Aug 21, 2009 1:23 PM CDT up reply actions
dissing becks' d, ginning up kong's, and tossing pods an mvp without so much talking about his stellar glove.
her brain is already on an airplane.
Don't call it a comeback.
by Toonderstrook on Aug 21, 2009 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions
Do I NEED to mention Pods' stellar glove? Or have I already argued about what a piece of shit he's been on defense?
While both of them have been “sparks” in their own way, Pods filled a pretty big role offensively.
The team seemed to find their groove with the arrival of Pods.
I hate Pods and I love Gordon Beckham. I’m trying not to vote based on personal favorites.
Oh wait, I didn’t select either of these guys for MVP.
PK was producing before either of them even showed up.
(billyok or Trooper quote)
by homesickalien on Aug 21, 2009 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions
The negative comments about Beckham has made the natives restless
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
by BobbySouthSide on Aug 21, 2009 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions
I know. It's obvious that one should never speak poorly or critically of Him.
(billyok or Trooper quote)
by homesickalien on Aug 21, 2009 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions
Konerko hasn't been producing for the past few months
If we’re going to deem an offensive player MVP, definitely can’t be hitting .204 since July.
Our defense is crappy enough that a pitcher has to be MVP by default.
The Chicago Bulls.....the more profitable Los Angeles Clippers.
by Ozzie Montana on Aug 21, 2009 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions
I completely understand this argument. But that's it. There were plenty of games early in the season in which PK saved the day. I know it's a lot easier to just consider what is fresh in the minds, but without those wins, we're not in contention now.
(billyok or Trooper quote)
by homesickalien on Aug 21, 2009 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions
Wins then are as important as wins now
He was great, now he sucks. I could argue Dye has had similar impact.
The Chicago Bulls.....the more profitable Los Angeles Clippers.
by Ozzie Montana on Aug 21, 2009 11:06 AM CDT up reply actions
SSS.
Or should we talk about Becks’ 0-13? Or his first month’s adventure at 3B? PK’s been dinged up as of late.
We’re a pack of a-holes. And my tradition of contributing absolutely nothing to this site... continues.
by winningugly on Aug 21, 2009 12:14 PM CDT up reply actions
SSS? You mean like how Konerko's 1st half stats are what's being used to prop him up?
I’ve already said the MVP should be a starting pitcher. And, Beckham’s awful start to his rookie year just makes his batting line all the more impressive.
Arguing who the most valuable player on a mediocre team is going to lend itself to a lot of debates.
The Chicago Bulls.....the more profitable Los Angeles Clippers.
by Ozzie Montana on Aug 21, 2009 12:18 PM CDT up reply actions
if you're arguing about a bat
we’ve got those metrics nailed down. pitching, relieving and a lack of catcher defense has room for argument. but Konerko is just an alright first baseman, both with the bat and the glove. there are a ton of better combos out there.
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On the Sox?
(billyok or Trooper quote)
by homesickalien on Aug 21, 2009 11:02 AM CDT up reply actions
Beckham and JD would make better 1B.
and we need some baseline of measurement outside of the team. we don’t play in a vacuum.
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I'm skeptical
typically takes a while to learn the nuances. Sure, JD has the height and size, but he hasn’t been an infielder since high-school.
by Daniel Berlyn on Aug 21, 2009 11:11 AM CDT up reply actions
at 1B?
psh. there’s a reason why teams are willing to stick whomever there.
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Whomever can't necessarily do the job. For two recent examples, Swisher and Betemit both sucked balls at first.
(billyok or Trooper quote)
by homesickalien on Aug 21, 2009 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions
Swisher was not fine.
Do you not remember his two-stepping? Fer Chrissakes, colin. If you don’t like PK say so, but he is the best first-baseman we have, and earlier this year was in the top 2-3 in the league re: defense.
We’re a pack of a-holes. And my tradition of contributing absolutely nothing to this site... continues.
by winningugly on Aug 21, 2009 12:16 PM CDT up reply actions
Swisher's a good enough athlete that I'm sure he can play first.
just like everyone else. Paulie’s ancient. you don’t suddenly become a great defender for a year after being about average for a career. and earlier when? by what metric? Tango’s studies show that anyone that can play the field can play first base. that’s what the position adjustments are all about. third and second are 15 runs over 150 games better than first.
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"I'm sure..."
He played there last year. Too much dope for you. he became awful toward the end of the year.
We’re a pack of a-holes. And my tradition of contributing absolutely nothing to this site... continues.
performance ≠ true talent
and a fan’s perception of that performance is even farther. fwiw, in about a full season’s worth of play spread over 6 seasons, he’s been -4 runs per 150 games. start him there full time and he’d be paul konerko good.
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Do a search.
I will impale you with the commentary describing his defense at 1B the last coule of months of the season. He became grotesque.
We’re a pack of a-holes. And my tradition of contributing absolutely nothing to this site... continues.
my bad on the mvp.
i was doing that thing i do with carbiner where i was reading one of every four of yer posts.
Don't call it a comeback.
by Toonderstrook on Aug 21, 2009 11:05 AM CDT up reply actions
No problem.
(billyok or Trooper quote)
by homesickalien on Aug 21, 2009 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions
Ass-bite.
We’re a pack of a-holes. And my tradition of contributing absolutely nothing to this site... continues.
by winningugly on Aug 21, 2009 12:16 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm sorry. I'll just go with "impressive" or "surprising"; since those are the terms being thrown around for Beckham.
With the condition of our transitioning infield, PK’s glove has been essential.
How about that? Essential.
Purity of Essence.
(billyok or Trooper quote)
by homesickalien on Aug 21, 2009 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions
And PK has scooped no less than 80,000 shitty throws from our infield to make outs and end innings/save runs/games.
(billyok or Trooper quote)
by homesickalien on Aug 21, 2009 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions
my point is kotsay would have scooped somewhere between 79999-80001
paulie is not essential for his glove.
and has hit like shit for 6 weeks.
I wanna see some stats on the "Scoop"...I also want a double scoop chocolate cone from B/R
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
by BobbySouthSide on Aug 21, 2009 11:02 AM CDT up reply actions
note i'm gonna argue negatives with any pick, even my own.
this really is ‘who is the least non-mvp’
solid might be a stretch...SS and 3B haven't been petty goo
but I see your point.
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
by BobbySouthSide on Aug 21, 2009 11:03 AM CDT up reply actions
Nix, Getz and Alexei are varying degrees of good
Beckham has gotten much better. Bettermitt and Fields should apologize to God for their transgressions.
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yep
before Q! strikes them down for those transgressions (Q! is an old testament god)
-Jeeves Life in the Cell
though to be fair
are you sure you could distinguish either of them from a pillar of salt in a Sox uniform?
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The Sox defense
or specifically the infield defense has been a lot like Dotel. Solid a great deal but when it self destructs its not minor. Its more the grand omg type. But I have no issues defensively with a Beckham, Alexei, Nix and Konerko infield.
"Oh well back to work"
am i supposed to run with it...
and reference the shit cart and ‘solid’?
or go with sucked mightily?
let me know…
Castro ran into the dugout and told pitcher Jose Contreras, "He hasn't missed a spot all day. I think hes going to do it." Contreras replied, "Shut the fuck up."
I'd call our infield this year a #6 on the Bristol Stool Chart.
Which includes:
Alexei’s transition to SS
3B woes – Betemit, Fields, and Beckham’s transition
Nix’s 2 glorious weeks at SS
Getz being just ok
(billyok or Trooper quote)
by homesickalien on Aug 21, 2009 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions
i don't see Alexei as part of the problem
he’s been solid all year. 3B was a giant hole of suck until Nix got there, then it sucked again for a bit, but now Beckhams fine. 2B between Nix and Getz has been above average. Konerko’s average.
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can't really say solid and alexei in the same comment.
i don’t care what the SSS numbers say. for every ball that a lesser ss may not have gotten to, he has booted/thrown one away/like a girl. even if you ignore his dirt throws that paulie saves.
and perceived laziness is not a good measure of defense.
Don't call it a comeback.
by Toonderstrook on Aug 21, 2009 11:41 AM CDT up reply actions
they're a bigger deal insofar as the Sox margin for error is slim
since every win matters so much. but if this was any other division, we’d be out of it by now.
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and i also doubt that paulie "saved" them anymore than another 1B would.
which make his throws acceptable, if not aesthetically satisfying.
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What Alexei have you been watching???
I don’t think he sucks by any stretch, but he has had some terrible, embarrassing, lazy, sloppy moments. More than I care to see from our SS.
(billyok or Trooper quote)
by homesickalien on Aug 21, 2009 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions
::Points out TDogg's comment above::
His miscues have been disastrous, but for the most part Alexei has been fine.
The Chicago Bulls.....the more profitable Los Angeles Clippers.
by Ozzie Montana on Aug 21, 2009 11:37 AM CDT up reply actions
i really doubt that.
if Alexei isn’t there next year, i’ll change my mind. but Kenny doesn’t go with less than average shortstops.
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i'm starting to wonder about that.
is there any history on hawk criticizing players? I know he has the history of talking up shitty grinders, and I always wondered if thats just him pushing the company line. if so, then maybe him and stoney pointing out alexei being lazy 5 times a game is to sell us on him being gone next year.
Doubt it
Just because they broadcast the games doesnt mean they have ANY idea what is going on in KW’s head. Seriously- can you see Hawk using any of his 40 functioning brain cells to prepare us for Alexi’s departure?
Screw you, monkeyboy, Imma goin Home!
by DrEmilioLizardo on Aug 21, 2009 12:08 PM CDT up reply actions
Really doubt what? I said he hasn't been as "solid" as you claim.
(billyok or Trooper quote)
by homesickalien on Aug 21, 2009 11:42 AM CDT up reply actions
Solid wasn't the right word
But, Che’ has been about an average to above average SS this year according to the stats. He has had some costly errors that stuck out but still about average.
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
by BobbySouthSide on Aug 21, 2009 11:43 AM CDT up reply actions
i think people ascribe different meanings to solid.
solid means average to me. i don’t know what other people are getting at with it.
People used solid to describe Orca last season
When he was better than that.
The Chicago Bulls.....the more profitable Los Angeles Clippers.
by Ozzie Montana on Aug 21, 2009 11:51 AM CDT up reply actions
that is correct - solid means different things to different people.
I think of solid as being well above average, solid like a rock – no real mistakes. Maybe not all-star calliber, but close.
When I think of a solid offensive tackle in football, I don’t think of an average player or slightly above average….
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
by BobbySouthSide on Aug 21, 2009 11:52 AM CDT up reply actions
Wouldn't if just make more sense to say solid=good
Not trying to pick nits, but it’s easy to misinterpret on the intrawebs.
The Chicago Bulls.....the more profitable Los Angeles Clippers.
by Ozzie Montana on Aug 21, 2009 11:56 AM CDT up reply actions
that would have saved about an hour
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
by BobbySouthSide on Aug 21, 2009 12:01 PM CDT up reply actions
no.
that’s what people thought they were arguing over.
if colin had just said average, that would have saved the hour.
i was quoting Tdogg
and i don’t think he meant above average when he used it.
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what's wrong with solid?
I like solid!
by Daniel Berlyn on Aug 21, 2009 3:58 PM CDT up reply actions
i liked it when his standup was solid.
Don't call it a comeback.
by Toonderstrook on Aug 21, 2009 4:00 PM CDT up reply actions
fangraphs has Lexi with a dollar value of 8.3 million this season and 1.8 WAR which is an improvement on last season.
as he is being paid nothing like that, he is very valuable to the team, saving them money and allowing them to get the likes of Peavey and Rios, becasue they don’t have blow lots of money on a SS.
And in a transcript of the off the record interview with KW he said he was happy with the infield and it was the outfielding performance he was getting pissed off about.
Probably why he went and got Rios.
I've mentioned this before
With the rate he’s paid I don’t think anybody should be complaining.
"Oh well back to work"
what does
“i don’t think he sucks by any stretch” mean? to me, if you can’t “stretch” to say someone sucks, it means they’re average-ish. and, hence, not part of the problem.
"Average" is not the opposite of "sucks."
(billyok or Trooper quote)
by homesickalien on Aug 21, 2009 11:43 AM CDT up reply actions
thanks.
now, please answer my question. if you need what i’m getting at smacked over your head, are you calling him a below average SS or not? that is what colin’s point is. below average = part of the problem. average or better = not part of the problem
for me, I was arguing about him being 'solid'.
if he said average, I wouldn’t have argued. if solid means average, i retract argument.
solid is better than average to you?
then my mistake. average-ish is what i was going for.
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now I agree
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
by BobbySouthSide on Aug 21, 2009 11:52 AM CDT up reply actions
that's definitely not the sense i use that word on a regular basis
you done been brainwashed, Troop.
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solid might even be average, in fact.
but a consistent average. not above average weighted down by some shit.
He has been average, yes.
As Toonder said, “perceived laziness” is not a good measure…..
but for someone who has seen all but maybe 5 games this year, it’s the lobbed throws to first, or the dropped balls at 2B on DPs, or the inability to catch a throw from AJ, or not putting the glove down on a grounder, or kicking said grounder….
I think he’s gotten and getting better, but for a season characterized by shitty defense, Alexei has been one of the main offenders.
In terms of everyday players, Alexei has the worst FP/most errors…Becks in a close 2nd.
And for whatever reason, “solid” > average, in my personal dictionary.
I stand corrected and will use the terms interchangeably henceforth.
(billyok or Trooper quote)
by homesickalien on Aug 21, 2009 12:03 PM CDT up reply actions
That is a shitty response.
It is plenty established that our OF has been a problem.
We were talking about Alexei being “solid.”
(billyok or Trooper quote)
by homesickalien on Aug 21, 2009 12:23 PM CDT up reply actions
what do you want me to say?
when i say “the” i mean “to the exclusion of everything else”. if you want me to throw Bettermitt and Fields in there, fine. the things you’re complaining about don’t matter nearly as much as range. i’ve watched the same games you have, but i’ve also evidently read more. range is what matters and it would seem no one has such complaints.
if you want to go back and figure out the expected average error rate with someone of his range and compare it to what he’s currently been charged with, then figure out what the run equivalency for an error is, you’ll at least have some hard figures for me to look at.
UZR currently does this, by the way, and says he’s been 2 runs below average. excuse me if i don’t get up in arms about 2 runs. if you’re looking for empirical proof of the Range Is What Matters argument, look at the spread between the two factors. range is in a -15 to 15 run min/max. error rate is -5 to 5.
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Actually, that is a much better response; thank you.
(billyok or Trooper quote)
by homesickalien on Aug 21, 2009 1:51 PM CDT up reply actions
get over the "can't catch throws from aj"
aj fucking throws like a sally. It doesn’t matter if he catches everyone of them they will still be safe. when he called out alexei, alexei should have slapped him since AJ “loses the handle” himself most of the time.
Kenwo4life=ratings
You are a self-hating ethnic Caucasoid.
We’re a pack of a-holes. And my tradition of contributing absolutely nothing to this site... continues.
by winningugly on Aug 21, 2009 12:23 PM CDT up reply actions
lol. that may be true.
but it doesn’t change the fact that I could swipe second on AJ. I am sick of the pitchers being blamed for it all the time too. They aren’t that much different from any other righty in the league.
Kenwo4life=ratings
I'm with Colin
he makes some really ugly plays, specifically on DPs, but after living through the Clayton era (which would not have happened without the masses complaining about Valentin’s perfectly adequate yet sometimes sloppy SS defense) I’m not going to complain about a SS who provides adequate defense when there is no obviously better option on the roster/farm.
Twitter: @SouthSideCheat
SouthSideSox on Facebook
agree on the nothing better part for sure.
at least not without wasting a half a season seeing if becks has it.
and let's remember that he doesn't position himself
and he has good speed. so whatever on that one.
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Wow
I was 100% certain no one else here used the Bristol stool chart besides me. Kudos! And I’d agree with the 6. So soft.
Like pizza? Me too.
Check out my pizza review site.
it's been a part of SSS for a while.
pretty sure the retarded thread was not it’s first appearance.
THIS STORY ONLY ENDS ONE WAY
Must have missed it
I finally would have had something substantial to contribute!
Like pizza? Me too.
Check out my pizza review site.
well, now there are 3 of us that know the power
visualization makes it easy for everyone!
Like pizza? Me too.
Check out my pizza review site.
1B are usually big and scary men who....
hit homers and get walked a lot. that kind of thing.
in WAR?
i just counted and he’s 19th best in wOBA amongst qualified 1B.
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the dollar value one
whatever that one is called. worth $7.1 million (what’s his salary?)
$12MM
not sure how accurate the dollar value is, since it’s not exactly clear what teams are paying per win. you need to go back and look at aggregate wins and aggregate dollars spent and then adjust for a winner’s curse. they were using a pretty simple inflation equation and i don’t know if they adjusted for the “new” economy. it’s also not really the best measurement of a contract, since it uses a linear scale that isn’t based on team wins (a marginal win is worth more to a team in playoff contention).
THIS STORY ONLY ENDS ONE WAY
yeah, but it's generally true that
he’s paid more than he’s worth. and he’s in the lower half of 1B. UZR, if you believe in that, puts him average at best.
but his UZR this year is better than in the recent past, right?
could that make him seem better than he actually is relative to everyone else?
Don't call it a comeback.
by Toonderstrook on Aug 21, 2009 11:39 AM CDT up reply actions
And most of teams' 1B
would be their MVP candidate, perhaps. So there.
We’re a pack of a-holes. And my tradition of contributing absolutely nothing to this site... continues.
by winningugly on Aug 21, 2009 12:11 PM CDT up reply actions
So looks like everyone BUT
Che’, Getz, Linebrink and Dotel get MVP awards. You all make Cowley look like a genius.
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
Um, Nix that.
We’re a pack of a-holes. And my tradition of contributing absolutely nothing to this site... continues.
by winningugly on Aug 21, 2009 10:01 AM CDT up reply actions
doesn't make me throw things at the tv = new mvp criterion
Don't call it a comeback.
by Toonderstrook on Aug 21, 2009 10:20 AM CDT up reply actions
Cop-out, co-MVPs
Gavin Floyd and Gordon Beckham.
Fun fact: Linebrink has a 8.44 ERA since the All-Star break.
The Chicago Bulls.....the more profitable Los Angeles Clippers.
that 2.344 whip and 1.166 ops against are also tasty.
Don't call it a comeback.
by Toonderstrook on Aug 21, 2009 10:31 AM CDT up reply actions
I joked with a buddy about how bad Linny has been
OPS against didnt really hit home.
“His numbers lately reflect he pitches against Albert Pujols EVERY at bat.’
“Ohhhh. damn.”
"Oh well back to work"
by Tdogg on Aug 21, 2009 10:33 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
With out pitching this team is dead
1)Buerhle
2)Floyd
3)Thornton
4)Konerko (yes slumped but 1st half glove helped immensely)
5)Beckham
"Oh well back to work"
Doesn't anyone here have to actually work?
I vote for A.J.
by South Side Expat on Aug 21, 2009 10:33 AM CDT reply actions
William,
Be. My. Friend. POS.
We’re a pack of a-holes. And my tradition of contributing absolutely nothing to this site... continues.
by winningugly on Aug 21, 2009 11:49 AM CDT up reply actions
wu likes coffee and billy in the morning.
Castro ran into the dugout and told pitcher Jose Contreras, "He hasn't missed a spot all day. I think hes going to do it." Contreras replied, "Shut the fuck up."
You're making this weird.
I’m pulling your chain.
We’re a pack of a-holes. And my tradition of contributing absolutely nothing to this site... continues.
by winningugly on Aug 21, 2009 12:19 PM CDT up reply actions
Good choice of words.
(billyok or Trooper quote)
by homesickalien on Aug 21, 2009 12:19 PM CDT up reply actions
Fields is the MVP
Without his horridness Bacon would still be on the farm rather than leading the Sox to a World Series title where he will undoubtedly be the WS MVP
by Duck99 on Aug 21, 2009 11:04 AM CDT via mobile reply actions
This may be Reductio Ad Adsurbia... but
MVP to me means the person who has done the most above all others to win games and produce when it matters- be it pitching, hitting, or fielding. While Beckham and Buhrle rock, Floyd is a machine, etc… AND I really am irritated by Peter Pan, the simple fact is that we were dead, dead, dead until he came along, and he continues to win games for us at the plate, even if he loses them for us occasionally in the field. We win more with Pods than without him. And I hate to write that.
Screw you, monkeyboy, Imma goin Home!
by DrEmilioLizardo on Aug 21, 2009 11:28 AM CDT reply actions
I really am irritated also.
But what about F-I-E-L-D-E-R-S?
Alexei Ramirez: our proud and hard-working SS; former runner-up for ROY.
/ducks
(billyok or Trooper quote)
All the different MVP's above
point out what a solid team we have now.
We gotta start playing like a solid team.
But what about F-I-E-L-D-E-R-S?
If I didn't have puke breath, I'd kiss you. --Bob McKenzie
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
by BobbySouthSide on Aug 21, 2009 11:35 AM CDT up reply actions
Best top-bottom Sox lineup I've seen in my lifetime
Had really solid top-middle with an atrocious bottom for a couple of decades.
Offensively, I'll still take 2000.
The Chicago Bulls.....the more profitable Los Angeles Clippers.
by Ozzie Montana on Aug 21, 2009 12:20 PM CDT up reply actions
It's a better offensive year but still have 2 major holes
That we don’t have now, hurray for Rios and Pierzynski. 2006 is a better offensive year too. I was used to Brian Anderson coming up and destroying any rally we’d have going so I’d pretty much root for Crede/Pierzynski to hit a HR rather than see the following batters die horribly.
We gotta start playing like
“Best top-bottom Sox lineup I’ve seen in my lifetime.”
But what about F-I-E-L-D-E-R-S?
the issue is that there's no great
its a lot of average to slightly above average players. basically, a whole lot of mediocre
brndnprkns: I'm pretty sure the "badass" value of your life is closer to Gigli than The Dark Knight
by whitesoxmatt on Aug 21, 2009 12:33 PM CDT up reply actions
Uninjured Quentin, Konerko, Dye, Thome is one of the better 3/4/5/6's in the majors
Granted they don’t all play on the same day very often.
and are capable of hitting into a quintuple play.
Castro ran into the dugout and told pitcher Jose Contreras, "He hasn't missed a spot all day. I think hes going to do it." Contreras replied, "Shut the fuck up."
*shrug* Speed is getting to be more important
But its still of minimal importance compared to the capacity to get on base/power. Maybe when the roids are gone completely. (I’m sure that’ll happen) Someone go tell JD it’s his fucking contract year again.
May as well put AJ at 7 as C, then.
But “uninjured” assumes a lot. And they are as slow as molasses. Plus, are their HR’s down this year?
We’re a pack of a-holes. And my tradition of contributing absolutely nothing to this site... continues.
by winningugly on Aug 21, 2009 12:41 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm just saying they're not mediocre, they're not amazing, but put them in Coors/New Yankee Stadium
I’m sure they’d have 5-10 more beans. 105 Park factor =/= 125 Park factor. I’m pretty sure with a good deal of luck/string of good/career years (a la 2006) we could do about as well as the Angels have this year.
I doubt everyone in the starting lineup hits .300 with power
in any ballpark.
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by winningugly on Aug 21, 2009 12:46 PM CDT up reply actions
interesting enough
the park factor for the Cell the last 5 years is not as high as some would think off the top of their head. I was a little surprised by that. It further diminished some of the Peavy nonsense.
"Oh well back to work"
Also
no way in hell is Pods our MVP. perhaps “unexpected surprise” but Beckham and Nix both qualify there and kick his ass in that sense.
THIS STORY ONLY ENDS ONE WAY
Or did shaftr?
(billyok or Trooper quote)
by homesickalien on Aug 21, 2009 12:06 PM CDT up reply actions
e-gus 3/4 season mvp award goes to......
Mark Buehrle. 3.78 ERA, 11-6 record, oh yeah and a perfect game.
He has surrendered 21 HR and thats enough for the year so he can cut that out.
It would have been Konerko up to the all-star break.
It would be Bacon if he was here all year.
It might be Floyd if you ignore everything before the SSS meet-up.
Castro ran into the dugout and told pitcher Jose Contreras, "He hasn't missed a spot all day. I think hes going to do it." Contreras replied, "Shut the fuck up."
TAEG has him tied up in his basement.
Castro ran into the dugout and told pitcher Jose Contreras, "He hasn't missed a spot all day. I think hes going to do it." Contreras replied, "Shut the fuck up."
Which would explain TAEG's absence.
Soon he will be playing 2B.
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by winningugly on Aug 21, 2009 12:22 PM CDT up reply actions
what about thome?
not saying he necessarily gets my vote, but i’m surprised he’s barely been mentioned. bias against a dh, maybe?
anyway, he’s #1 in wOBA and WPA, he’s got the most runs created per plate appearance (third in overall RC) and the highest “clutch” score, despite all his unclutch homers. he’s also first in OPS, second in RBI (1 behind JD), and 5th in runs.
not bad for an old man.
DH, definitely.
And age bias, I’d venture to say.
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by winningugly on Aug 21, 2009 12:22 PM CDT up reply actions
it's not a bias
it’s a meaningful position discount. preventing runs by playing in the field is a big deal.
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thome prevents runs by not playing in the field.
Don't call it a comeback.
by Toonderstrook on Aug 21, 2009 1:25 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
I must say
As I have ducked over to the site today a bit, I find this thread enjoyable for Sox discussion. Good subject Cheat.
"Oh well back to work"
There's no right answer
by the numbers AJ has accumulated the most WAR among positional players, but he should probably take a hit (that he shares with the pitching staff) for his defense and his RBI total reveals a brutal batting line w/ RISP…
Floyd leads among starters, but that’s based on FIP (as stated earlier in the thread) and he was turrible (as Barkley would say) prior to the meetup.
Thorndog has been our best reliever and thus leads in WPA, but that’s reliever biased, and while he’s been very good, I think you have to be otherwordly to be considered for even team MVP honors as a reliever.
Twitter: @SouthSideCheat
SouthSideSox on Facebook
PAULIE!
(And of course you diss AJ’s defense, but he has been producing as expected defensively and has been calling a pretty good game.)
We’re a pack of a-holes. And my tradition of contributing absolutely nothing to this site... continues.
by winningugly on Aug 21, 2009 12:38 PM CDT up reply actions
I only bring up AJ's defense because WAR doesn't encapsulate catcher defense
whereas it does take defense into account for the other positional players. All catchers get the same generic positional adjustment.
Twitter: @SouthSideCheat
SouthSideSox on Facebook
MVP has been Floyd IMO
And I"m really sick of seeing people bang on Che’s defense, he’s slightly better than league average and slightly better than league average offensively as well. For his pay, he’s great.
by madvillian on Aug 21, 2009 12:40 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
i agree about che
BHB has been good after his first few starts this year, but its hard not to overlook the fact that if he had pitched like he can/should that we’d probably have anther 3-5 wins, and thus the division lead.
we are gonna skullfuck this guy - thecip
I'd guess you can find 3-5 wins in any of the guys mentioned if they coulda/woulda/shoulda.
if somebody had no downside we wouldn’t even be having this discussion.
Nix for me
done the job when called on, good discipline and lots of power. and he has a very low BABIP of 0.236 so he’s been a bit unlucky too.
been a great pickup for us, I bet other teams are quite envious of that one.
You're excellent for my pay.
We’re a pack of a-holes. And my tradition of contributing absolutely nothing to this site... continues.
by winningugly on Aug 21, 2009 12:45 PM CDT up reply actions
I thought you might like that one.
BECAUSE IT’S TRUE!
We’re a pack of a-holes. And my tradition of contributing absolutely nothing to this site... continues.
by winningugly on Aug 21, 2009 12:47 PM CDT up reply actions
you felt carbiner breathing down your neck, didn't you?
Don't call it a comeback.
by Toonderstrook on Aug 21, 2009 12:48 PM CDT up reply actions
does excellent for pay enter into an mvp discussion?
Don't call it a comeback.
by Toonderstrook on Aug 21, 2009 12:47 PM CDT up reply actions
Already has.
(billyok or Trooper quote)
by homesickalien on Aug 21, 2009 12:48 PM CDT up reply actions
well, mad-v was just talking about the che bashing so i didn't think it was really the mvp issue...
now this nix business, well…
Don't call it a comeback.
by Toonderstrook on Aug 21, 2009 12:50 PM CDT up reply actions
hoodie brought it up re: Che earlier.
(billyok or Trooper quote)
by homesickalien on Aug 21, 2009 12:51 PM CDT up reply actions
so hoodie picked two? what the f?
Don't call it a comeback.
by Toonderstrook on Aug 21, 2009 12:52 PM CDT up reply actions
Cheeky Brit!
(billyok or Trooper quote)
by homesickalien on Aug 21, 2009 12:58 PM CDT up reply actions
People seem to be equating "monetary value" with "value".
What is “value”? Production/WAR per dollar?
We’re a pack of a-holes. And my tradition of contributing absolutely nothing to this site... continues.
by winningugly on Aug 21, 2009 12:49 PM CDT up reply actions
He's been a real Mark Belanger with the glove, Hoodster.
Plus, his appearances are a bit limited. If you are including those who have 2/3 of the plate appearances as starters, Becks over Nixxy, hands down, mate.
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by winningugly on Aug 21, 2009 12:45 PM CDT up reply actions
I know
ok, maybe he’s worth an honorable mention is what I should have said. And when you are sat on your arse half the time and being asked to fill in at multiple infield positions it’s hard to be average level at any of them I guess.
Still think they should look at him for an outfield spot – i think his bat is good enough.
i still feel pretty good with my .240/.310/.420 projection over a full season
and that’s not good enough for OF. it would have been when we had nobody earlier in the season, but we didn’t have any depth past him, so making him learn a new position probably wasn’t worth the risk. if his UZR and TotalZone ratings are right though, he might have been a good enough fielder to support the bat.
THIS STORY ONLY ENDS ONE WAY
Cokies!
Where do I sign up for those! I need a pick-me-up.
We’re a pack of a-holes. And my tradition of contributing absolutely nothing to this site... continues.
by winningugly on Aug 21, 2009 12:47 PM CDT up reply actions
makeing too
replies pushed the preview window down out of view. I just kept typing and hit [tab] [tab] post
Twitter: @SouthSideCheat
SouthSideSox on Facebook
Too many cokies already.
I figured spelling goes out the window after a good cokie or two.
We’re a pack of a-holes. And my tradition of contributing absolutely nothing to this site... continues.
by winningugly on Aug 21, 2009 12:49 PM CDT up reply actions
Increase usage generally means increased tolerance.
They need 3 cokies/poster just to wake up in the morning.
We’re a pack of a-holes. And my tradition of contributing absolutely nothing to this site... continues.
by winningugly on Aug 21, 2009 12:59 PM CDT up reply actions
Fer Chrissakes, look at Cheat's comment at the top of the thread.
We’re a pack of a-holes. And my tradition of contributing absolutely nothing to this site... continues.
VG.
Crupets?
We’re a pack of a-holes. And my tradition of contributing absolutely nothing to this site... continues.
cut the man some slack.
it’s almost a full-time job just keeping up with YOUR prolific posting. it’s like you’ve got the seven dwarfs all posting under your name at the same time.
Don't call it a comeback.
by Toonderstrook on Aug 21, 2009 1:02 PM CDT up reply actions
A patent attorney will be contacting you shortly
for unauthorized trademark usage.
We’re a pack of a-holes. And my tradition of contributing absolutely nothing to this site... continues.
i'm sure i'll recognize him by his mickey mouse ears.
Don't call it a comeback.
by Toonderstrook on Aug 21, 2009 1:04 PM CDT up reply actions
isn't that copyright, not patent?
These events have me frightened and on the verge of evacuating my bowels.
by thatshortkid on Aug 21, 2009 4:34 PM CDT up reply actions
Bukvuch/Prinz vs. Betemit/Lillibridge vs. Erstad/Sweeny in a game of chicken in the pool
Who wins? And why?
¡signature!
bettermit/lillibridge
sturdy base with a light top. also too hard to grab/throw down a guy who is that small. he’d just slip through their grasps.
we are gonna skullfuck this guy - thecip
Agreed, but only because
Betemit/Lillibridge is the only team spelled correctly.
We’re a pack of a-holes. And my tradition of contributing absolutely nothing to this site... continues.
by winningugly on Aug 21, 2009 12:56 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah, I considered looking them up their names to see if I was spelling them right...
but then I said to myself, “why?”
¡signature!
Ill take Erstad Sweeney
those grindy bastards would think twice about pulling Lilli’s ears, as soon as they get a swaying betemit wouldnt be able to stop the momentum.
Castro ran into the dugout and told pitcher Jose Contreras, "He hasn't missed a spot all day. I think hes going to do it." Contreras replied, "Shut the fuck up."
You know, for the longest time (before I clicked to your user profile), I thought your avatar was one of these furry clown things.
(billyok or Trooper quote)
by homesickalien on Aug 21, 2009 1:02 PM CDT up reply actions
Still better than your Ozzy pic from long ago. Scared the crap out of me. :)
(billyok or Trooper quote)
by homesickalien on Aug 21, 2009 1:09 PM CDT up reply actions
well it is...
it’s just living furry clown thing that reacts only when you throw food at it.
¡signature!
You're in both categories.
You know what I’m sayin’.
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by winningugly on Aug 21, 2009 12:56 PM CDT up reply actions
even the arsonist can benefit from AL to NL switch
haha, that is a league of pussies
Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa... Time out Greenbay. Tell that fucking bullshit to the tourists
by onlysoxfaninboston on Aug 21, 2009 1:09 PM CDT up reply actions
do oz and coop?
Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa... Time out Greenbay. Tell that fucking bullshit to the tourists
by onlysoxfaninboston on Aug 21, 2009 1:13 PM CDT up reply actions
I remember that
it’s deceiving, they are actually congratulating him there, it came after he did something good, it’s a while back, but I’m sure I’m right.
yeah, he only gave up 3 runs instead of the typical 4.
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
by BobbySouthSide on Aug 21, 2009 1:31 PM CDT up reply actions
Perhaps that was the purpose of the ellipsis
He’s lucky with the nationals though! Damn Nats and their luckiness.
Hit List Up
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=9426
my one weekly contribution to the discussion here, except when Larry beats me to it
good to see you have one that fits the job description unlike WU's "sensitive" assistant.
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
by BobbySouthSide on Aug 21, 2009 1:40 PM CDT up reply actions
I heard dat.
We’re a pack of a-holes. And my tradition of contributing absolutely nothing to this site... continues.
so did brenda.
you just have to train them properly. managing people is a skill. i guess, just like his hero alexei, WU is all tool, no skills.
If she were my employee we'd have no issues.
She’s not, and we do. Authority is a wonderful asset when managing.
We’re a pack of a-holes. And my tradition of contributing absolutely nothing to this site... continues.
So you're not her boss?
How can she be your secretary if you are not her superior? You don’t have to own the company to have authority. mgmt 101….you’re daughter is going to own you in a few years WU. Get with the program!
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
by BobbySouthSide on Aug 21, 2009 1:48 PM CDT up reply actions
It means she's employed by the company, not WU directly.
Hence, he must swallow her “moods” since he’s not in a position to threaten her continued employment. “Authority” would allow him to better manage her. Alas, he doesn’t possess it.
"Baseball is like church. Many attend, few understand."
— Leo Durocher
i don't employ my secretary either.
she is my subordinate. like any subordinate, i can threaten continued employment if someone isn’t performing satisfactorily. seems like that’s kind of how it works most places.
exactly
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
by BobbySouthSide on Aug 21, 2009 2:14 PM CDT up reply actions
I cannot threaten her with unemployment, as I am not her superior.
She is my “support” person. She is “supervised” out of offices in CA. Makes it difficult to threaten anything when I have no authority to do so. And could be sued for harassment it I did, and probably fired.
Makes no sense, but it is what it is.
We’re a pack of a-holes. And my tradition of contributing absolutely nothing to this site... continues.
That's me.
Took the job 6 weeks after 9/11/01 when no one was hiring. I owe, I owe, it’s off to work I go…
We’re a pack of a-holes. And my tradition of contributing absolutely nothing to this site... continues.
just messin w/ you opos...
as you are my east coast homie, you still have NY backing you
First mistake is working for a firm with offices in CA.
Secondly, I was confused as you mentioned “secretary” in the post earlier and now it has been changed to “support” person. Next I’ll find out you think our savior, GB, is a liability because he isn’t “solid” in the field….then I’ll go apeshit.
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
by BobbySouthSide on Aug 21, 2009 2:44 PM CDT up reply actions
Take it up with him, I was offering my interpretation of what he wrote in response to your post.
Nothing more.
"Baseball is like church. Many attend, few understand."
— Leo Durocher
Oh. I didn't understand that. That makes a difference.
"Baseball is like church. Many attend, few understand."
— Leo Durocher
You got it, Chi.
I believe you know the difference. When I was married to an attorney she’d go through a secreatry every 5-6 months. I have no such luxury. I have to dance with who they bring me.
We’re a pack of a-holes. And my tradition of contributing absolutely nothing to this site... continues.
don't dirty dance
I did that when I got my first secretary…talk about losing authority. All of it went out the window.
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
by BobbySouthSide on Aug 21, 2009 2:45 PM CDT up reply actions
damn WU. you gotta work on that.
I dunno what kind of authority I have officially, but I threaten students/interns lives all the time. that shit is therapeutic.
Is it a Murphy Brown type situation?
by South Side Expat on Aug 21, 2009 2:09 PM CDT up reply actions
Explain.
We’re a pack of a-holes. And my tradition of contributing absolutely nothing to this site... continues.
Constantly Frustrated with the secretary situation and couldn't do anything about it?
I know, it’s an old TV reference, but I figured some of the old folks here….
by South Side Expat on Aug 21, 2009 2:46 PM CDT up reply actions
Didn't watch Murphy Brown.
Am straight, not a lesbian. ;)
We’re a pack of a-holes. And my tradition of contributing absolutely nothing to this site... continues.
I know watching Murphy Brown made you ant-family values according to Dan Quayle..
Didn’t know about the lesbian thing.
by South Side Expat on Aug 21, 2009 2:55 PM CDT up reply actions
i gotcha on that one
my mom used to watch murphy brown so i caught some episodes. i guess my mom was a lesbian… who knew?
Kenwo4life=ratings
Waits for the Steely Dan OPOS pics...
We’re a pack of a-holes. And my tradition of contributing absolutely nothing to this site... continues.
Well, that's why I thought WU would get it.
Have I posted enough here yet to make the old jokes?
by South Side Expat on Aug 21, 2009 2:58 PM CDT up reply actions
if you've made it through the 24-hour waiting period to post, you've posted enough.
Don't call it a comeback.
by Toonderstrook on Aug 21, 2009 2:59 PM CDT up reply actions
Who do I complain to?
Fire away, SSE. You POS.
We’re a pack of a-holes. And my tradition of contributing absolutely nothing to this site... continues.
Lisa Madigan told me she is a sox fan today in the lunch line.
I didn’t realize she was a midget either. She was standing in front of me getting a salad and I said “Hi Lisa, nice to meet you – tell me your a Sox fan.” She gave me this goofing fucking grin, like get the fuck out of my way and said of course she was. I am probably being monitored now….her father will have me taken out like larry tried to do with Ozzie Guillen’s ride last January.
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
I am googling this sh*t though and it seems she is a die hard cub fan
WTF? You think she just said what I wanted to hear like her father does? I’ve been had, I’ve been bamboozled…I need a cokie.
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
by BobbySouthSide on Aug 21, 2009 1:30 PM CDT up reply actions
She thought you were a Ligue. Told you what you wanted to hear to avoid violence.
Them girlz with glasses are smart.
"Baseball is like church. Many attend, few understand."
— Leo Durocher
In a librarian/attorney nerdy look kinda way, yeah.
skinny…but really short. Looks better in person than on TV.
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
by BobbySouthSide on Aug 21, 2009 1:38 PM CDT up reply actions
kinda looks like a Kennedy...
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
by BobbySouthSide on Aug 21, 2009 1:38 PM CDT up reply actions
actually my dad used to split a seasons pass in 134 row 5....
which is now the scout seat area. so i have sat there before but not since the new format. That buffet will be sorry i was allowed in.
Kenwo4life=ratings
haha well yah
but not in this case. these are free! which makes it that much better.
Kenwo4life=ratings
Those ruined it for me.
I sat there once last year – about 5 rows behind home. It is a whole different game down there. Plus all the amenities…enjoy it!
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
by BobbySouthSide on Aug 21, 2009 1:53 PM CDT up reply actions
thanks!
thats what the guy who hooked it up with the tickets said… “you’ll never want to sit anywhere else”. I’ve done my share of sitting in the last row of the upper deck. its time for an upgrade
Kenwo4life=ratings
Skanberg will be warming them for you at tonight's game.
(billyok or Trooper quote)
by homesickalien on Aug 21, 2009 2:01 PM CDT up reply actions
well danks vs. markakis or
Hernandez vs. Podsednik isn’t quite the same as Peavy vs. Pujols but it should be good nonetheless
Kenwo4life=ratings
maybe you can see it again in October
I went there.
Castro ran into the dugout and told pitcher Jose Contreras, "He hasn't missed a spot all day. I think hes going to do it." Contreras replied, "Shut the fuck up."
i make a mean fuckin mac and cheese.
god damn this shit is DELICIOUS.
we are gonna skullfuck this guy - thecip
Watching the Little League World Series is depressing. This 12-year-old is getting rocked and can't do anything about it.
http://twitter.com/drewsilv/status/3455838928
i’ve long wondered why this is so prominently played on espn. any insight? anyone who watches?
gambling...it's all about the gambling.
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
by BobbySouthSide on Aug 21, 2009 2:04 PM CDT up reply actions
i remember being very interested in ages 10 - 14
i know that all my friends would watch as well, so i have to believe that they get good ratings for games shown during the day
brndnprkns: I'm pretty sure the "badass" value of your life is closer to Gigli than The Dark Knight
by whitesoxmatt on Aug 21, 2009 2:05 PM CDT up reply actions
pizza that lies about its age so it can compete against younger talent
and thus look better by comparison
which reminds me of…
Calvin: What’s a pronoun?
Hobbes: A noun that’s lost its amateur status.
Calvin: Maybe I’ll get a point for originality.
-Jeeves Life in the Cell
by jeeves on Aug 21, 2009 2:20 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Whew. For a minute I thought KenWo was refering to adolescent acne.
"Baseball is like church. Many attend, few understand."
— Leo Durocher
no, no
they’ve got proactive for pre-teens to cover that up
-Jeeves Life in the Cell
no, that's just matthew broderick
the recession touches us all
by Daniel Berlyn on Aug 21, 2009 4:16 PM CDT up reply actions
I've always kind of enjoyed it. It's cool to see young kids playing at a high level
But at the same times, they’re young kids. For lack of a better term of the top of my head, it humanizes the game a bit.
It's our national pastime
Living vicariously through children.
The Chicago Bulls.....the more profitable Los Angeles Clippers.
by Ozzie Montana on Aug 21, 2009 2:11 PM CDT up reply actions
i'm a pretty big baseball fan here.
shoot, i can enjoy watching minor leaguers play. but i would have thought there comes a point where you ask yourself “why am i watching children who i am not related to play a game poorly?”
i coached little league for about 8 years.
you get into it when you are involved in it… but since then I haven’t watched one inning of it. When i was 12 though it was a huge deal. We never made it- no fault of my own… (pointing at my rotten teammates)
Kenwo4life=ratings
freddy? is that you?
These events have me frightened and on the verge of evacuating my bowels.
by thatshortkid on Aug 21, 2009 4:50 PM CDT up reply actions
KenWo's post makes the most sense
People who played Little League have an emotional/nostalgic attachment to it.
I know I get teary eyed when I hear about my high school’s Scholastic Bowl team making Sectionals.
The Chicago Bulls.....the more profitable Los Angeles Clippers.
by Ozzie Montana on Aug 21, 2009 2:21 PM CDT up reply actions
Fess up: you almost made the finals in the National Spelling Bee, right?
"Baseball is like church. Many attend, few understand."
— Leo Durocher
I couldn't even win my school spelling bee
Now, Geography Bee…..I dominated that shit.
The Chicago Bulls.....the more profitable Los Angeles Clippers.
by Ozzie Montana on Aug 21, 2009 2:25 PM CDT up reply actions
yah geography bee!
I was always a top contendah for that championship. spelling? not so much
Kenwo4life=ratings
ha look at the nut in the right hand corner.
was he one of the columbine assailants?
Kenwo4life=ratings
Not a single Asian, what a horrible fucking team.
The Chicago Bulls.....the more profitable Los Angeles Clippers.
by Ozzie Montana on Aug 21, 2009 2:26 PM CDT up reply actions
Don't give him any of the science questions
by CatBrains on Aug 21, 2009 3:56 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
I feel like your personal rec'er.
(billyok or Trooper quote)
by homesickalien on Aug 21, 2009 4:08 PM CDT up reply actions
I'll take 'em any way I can get 'em
Don’t think I’ve had a green comments yet… but I only check my old comments for 5 days after I make them… so maybe a few of them went green on day 6
I'm sure they all did. Every last one of 'em.
Not even Corky?
Was I the only mofo who appreciated that??
(billyok or Trooper quote)
by homesickalien on Aug 21, 2009 4:19 PM CDT up reply actions
plus one too many girls
back left…i think
-Jeeves Life in the Cell
you don't necessarily need foreigners.
we rocked the party with our eastern euro contingent.
THIS STORY ONLY ENDS ONE WAY
I'm from the southwest suburbs, the racial makeup of every high school near me is pretty similar
It was fun to see the sheltered closet racists cringe when we went to Bremen or Argo, like we were competing in a state penitentiary.
The Chicago Bulls.....the more profitable Los Angeles Clippers.
by Ozzie Montana on Aug 21, 2009 2:38 PM CDT up reply actions
Didn't take long.
We’re a pack of a-holes. And my tradition of contributing absolutely nothing to this site... continues.
nah i am from willow springs... pretty much a hillbilly town
we had the same feelings entering argo as his closet racist teammates did :)
Kenwo4life=ratings
no wonder you made the baseball team
with a whole school full of soccer playing mexicans.
Castro ran into the dugout and told pitcher Jose Contreras, "He hasn't missed a spot all day. I think hes going to do it." Contreras replied, "Shut the fuck up."
basketball was the sport when i was there
Kyle the Thrill Hill was drafted by the Rockets i believe. Whitney White went on to play slamball… couple others went on to play college ball. That bastard Corey Maggette knocked us out of the championships.
Kenwo4life=ratings
oops mistake. kyle was drafted by the mavericks
and his rights were traded to the rockets
Kenwo4life=ratings
I was a city boy, so I didn't play there, but I went to watch
a buddies basketball sectional in your gym. Awesome gym dude. So old school
yah the gym was high class.
they now have a massive field house that is quality too.
Kenwo4life=ratings
just found out the alma mater
is two time defending state math champs. as a math teacher now, i’m not sure if thats something to be proud of. and were you there when they won it the first year and we had an assembly for the freaking math team?
brndnprkns: I'm pretty sure the "badass" value of your life is closer to Gigli than The Dark Knight
by whitesoxmatt on Aug 21, 2009 2:44 PM CDT up reply actions
it's a nice mix of wealth and recent immigrants.
doesn’t help as much in sports.
THIS STORY ONLY ENDS ONE WAY
America's national pastime is adults living vicariously through small children
So as to ignore their own crippling depression and fucked up offspring that needs another 60 grand for a 6th year at Bard.
The Chicago Bulls.....the more profitable Los Angeles Clippers.
by Ozzie Montana on Aug 21, 2009 2:13 PM CDT up reply actions
small college in new york for 200 Alex
brndnprkns: I'm pretty sure the "badass" value of your life is closer to Gigli than The Dark Knight
by whitesoxmatt on Aug 21, 2009 2:46 PM CDT up reply actions
Start a little earlier.
As in, private school. Which is where I am sending my daughter. Or any sport that has private coaches. You should hear the women at my daughter’s gym. I almost punched one of them last night – she would not let me talk with my wife, with whom I’d not spoken in person since Saturday, because she had to keep commenting on whether or not a kid had hit her landing well enough.
Also, thanks for the generalization, DB. I don’t see the Indians at all harping on their pre-teen kids ever, be it school or play, fer Chrissakes. A good buddy of mine is forcing his 6 year-old to attend gymnastics camp because she needs to learn to “compete”. She also is in basketball and baseball and has voiced her displeasure at going to gymnastics. Oh, he’s Indian. His white wife wants to let the kid quit. He says no.
Just vignettes. Not generalizations. Lots of parents are DB’s.
We’re a pack of a-holes. And my tradition of contributing absolutely nothing to this site... continues.
Oh, wait.
You are American, too. Never mind. ;)
We’re a pack of a-holes. And my tradition of contributing absolutely nothing to this site... continues.
Which is why it's America's pastime, not white people you selfish twat
The Chicago Bulls.....the more profitable Los Angeles Clippers.
by Ozzie Montana on Aug 21, 2009 2:45 PM CDT up reply actions
anyone see that 6'2", 205 pound beast that plays on the So Cal team?
he hit a home run on Sunday that would have made it out of the Cell.
Don't call it a comeback.
by Toonderstrook on Aug 21, 2009 2:45 PM CDT up reply actions
Lots of ehnanced milk being consumed by kids.
Previously mentioned rude gymnastic Mom pointed out a kid a head taller than her peers (about as tall as my wife, about 5’6") who is 11.
Plus, Toonder, you were at least 6’0" at age 8, were you not?
We’re a pack of a-holes. And my tradition of contributing absolutely nothing to this site... continues.
*enhanced*
We’re a pack of a-holes. And my tradition of contributing absolutely nothing to this site... continues.
why yes, yes i was.
Don't call it a comeback.
by Toonderstrook on Aug 21, 2009 2:56 PM CDT up reply actions
My daughter is allergic to milk, thus been on this crazy formula that costs about $30 a container.
Kid is in her 90th percentile for length…she isn’t even a year and she is in 2-year old’s clothing. I think a lot of these kids are getting big by all the steroids that are injected in animals now a days for consumption.
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
by BobbySouthSide on Aug 21, 2009 2:57 PM CDT up reply actions
doesn't work like that
" Do you guys know people like you are the reason I wouldn’t come on for exstended periods of time. You rui the baseball blogging expieriance."
by trademaker on May 30, 2009 10:31 PM PDT
Are you sure there is no causative relationship
between enhanced dairy products and size?
We’re a pack of a-holes. And my tradition of contributing absolutely nothing to this site... continues.
Inconclusive.
There isn’t one factor that makes kids big.
The Chicago Bulls.....the more profitable Los Angeles Clippers.
by Ozzie Montana on Aug 21, 2009 3:15 PM CDT up reply actions
explain to me why all of these kids are ginormous now a days?
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
by BobbySouthSide on Aug 21, 2009 3:14 PM CDT up reply actions
i can't explain why kids are bigger
but i can assure you it’s not from the hormones used in increasing animal production. we read case studies on this stuff all the time in my classes. the shit we use to increase milk production in dairy cows breaks down in the cow and is a compound that has no effect on people whatsoever
" Do you guys know people like you are the reason I wouldn’t come on for exstended periods of time. You rui the baseball blogging expieriance."
by trademaker on May 30, 2009 10:31 PM PDT
PORK? CHICKENS?
Those chicken breasts are enhanced. I’m telling you. I know from juiced breasts.
We’re a pack of a-holes. And my tradition of contributing absolutely nothing to this site... continues.
still not responsible
" Do you guys know people like you are the reason I wouldn’t come on for exstended periods of time. You rui the baseball blogging expieriance."
by trademaker on May 30, 2009 10:31 PM PDT
I am entirely serious.
Our CEO has distributed research produced in China about how our meat and dairy industry injects the eff out of animals to produce ginned-up foodstuffs. After passing this along to the entire management team many swore off all meat products. And proceeded to lose 10-15% body mass.
I’m just sayin’.
We’re a pack of a-holes. And my tradition of contributing absolutely nothing to this site... continues.
meat has fat in it
cutting meat completely out of your diet should result in a significant loss of body mass
" Do you guys know people like you are the reason I wouldn’t come on for exstended periods of time. You rui the baseball blogging expieriance."
by trademaker on May 30, 2009 10:31 PM PDT
(I know that.)
LA LA LA LA I CANT HEAR YOU
We’re a pack of a-holes. And my tradition of contributing absolutely nothing to this site... continues.
trust the ceo of disney or the gov't? talk about tallest midget contests.
oh, yeah, dont tell my bosses i said that.
Don't call it a comeback.
by Toonderstrook on Aug 21, 2009 3:35 PM CDT up reply actions
Not eating meat reduces body mass? Thanks for the info
If you don’t like eating hormones, then make a conscious effort to avoid them. There’s still nothing inherently wrong with them.
The Chicago Bulls.....the more profitable Los Angeles Clippers.
by Ozzie Montana on Aug 21, 2009 3:36 PM CDT up reply actions
yeah, he kinda threw a layup there...
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
by BobbySouthSide on Aug 21, 2009 3:41 PM CDT up reply actions
And they can only get tall from that?
Portly, yes. So why else is the average height so much larger than in 1900? Huh? Gravity? Sunlight combined with watering? Grains?
It’s in the meats. Maybe not cattle (though U-God’s postulation is full of holes – get some independent verification from the US, where all the research is funded by the USDA) but certainly chicken and turkey.
We’re a pack of a-holes. And my tradition of contributing absolutely nothing to this site... continues.
How much time do you have?
LOL. The expert weighs in.
We’re a pack of a-holes. And my tradition of contributing absolutely nothing to this site... continues.
No grapes? No nuts? Whoot de fook?
We’re a pack of a-holes. And my tradition of contributing absolutely nothing to this site... continues.
we're getting taller due to better nutrition overall
" Do you guys know people like you are the reason I wouldn’t come on for exstended periods of time. You rui the baseball blogging expieriance."
by trademaker on May 30, 2009 10:31 PM PDT
Yeah, those Zulus sure know how to eat.
We’re a pack of a-holes. And my tradition of contributing absolutely nothing to this site... continues.
There are a lot of steps here
Like WU said, since 1900…yeah, sure nutrition.
But what about since I was a kid in the 80’s? I see kids now that dwarf just about everyone I went to school with. Look at it in professional sports….it is crazy the size of everyone – weight and height.
Nutrition isn’t playing a factor here…something else is.
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
by BobbySouthSide on Aug 21, 2009 3:26 PM CDT up reply actions
predators.
We’re a pack of a-holes. And my tradition of contributing absolutely nothing to this site... continues.
Um.....there are a few things different with the way people live now compared to 1900
I know your taste buds have been shot since the fall of the Confederacy, but we don’t eat the same shit people ate a century ago.
The Chicago Bulls.....the more profitable Los Angeles Clippers.
by Ozzie Montana on Aug 21, 2009 3:24 PM CDT up reply actions
So how did the guys in Africa get so tall,
and are still getting taller? Shoot, my German cousins are 6’5" and were born in the ’60’s. And their kids are taller. Maybe the bourbon the Moms all had during pregnancy was the culprit.
We’re a pack of a-holes. And my tradition of contributing absolutely nothing to this site... continues.
I knew you had Nazi blood in you, ya jew basher!
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
by BobbySouthSide on Aug 21, 2009 3:33 PM CDT up reply actions
I got almost the whole Axis in my family.
Watch your a$$. If I could’ve beeded an Asian my daughter could be Ninja Soprano.
We’re a pack of a-holes. And my tradition of contributing absolutely nothing to this site... continues.
so close to a score. the speeling did you in agin.
Don't call it a comeback.
by Toonderstrook on Aug 21, 2009 3:36 PM CDT up reply actions
Beeded.
Fial. Like an excited puppy, I am.
We’re a pack of a-holes. And my tradition of contributing absolutely nothing to this site... continues.
global warming.
Don't call it a comeback.
by Toonderstrook on Aug 21, 2009 3:25 PM CDT up reply actions
That was my thought.
I love the taste of ozone in the morning.
We’re a pack of a-holes. And my tradition of contributing absolutely nothing to this site... continues.
was he a big darker skinned kid i saw pitching?
I presume he’s african american as my people don’t grow that large normally…if you’re thinking of a different kid, the kid I’m talking about was pitching and they said that his doctors predict he’ll be 6’8’’…dayum!
-Jeeves Life in the Cell
luke ramirez
Don't call it a comeback.
by Toonderstrook on Aug 21, 2009 3:09 PM CDT up reply actions
6'9", 245
must be something in the oil.
Don't call it a comeback.
by Toonderstrook on Aug 21, 2009 3:11 PM CDT up reply actions
after some further research that isn't the kid I saw on tv
but he looks like him…I’m trying to track down the other kid so we can have some more giants posted in this thread
-Jeeves Life in the Cell
Tracking down Little League kids.
Pedo.
We’re a pack of a-holes. And my tradition of contributing absolutely nothing to this site... continues.
yeah, like BOTH you AND the wife need to be at every gymnastics practice.
pot, meet kettle.
Don't call it a comeback.
by Toonderstrook on Aug 21, 2009 3:16 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm a good Dad.
Shoot me. Especially after your comment.
We’re a pack of a-holes. And my tradition of contributing absolutely nothing to this site... continues.
i'll back off. you're taking enough of a beating over this nutrition business.
Don't call it a comeback.
by Toonderstrook on Aug 21, 2009 3:24 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm pulling out a bottle of Fisher tonight.
Interesting week. And the wife got a nice bonus, too. will def. have the wine on tonight.
We’re a pack of a-holes. And my tradition of contributing absolutely nothing to this site... continues.
you might get some and it isn't even yo b-day! Nice work.
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
by BobbySouthSide on Aug 21, 2009 3:28 PM CDT up reply actions
next time you're here we're going to cakebread.
Don't call it a comeback.
by Toonderstrook on Aug 21, 2009 3:28 PM CDT up reply actions
Where/what dat?
We’re a pack of a-holes. And my tradition of contributing absolutely nothing to this site... continues.
the small family-run winery in napa.
the pinot i sent you way back when.
Don't call it a comeback.
by Toonderstrook on Aug 21, 2009 3:36 PM CDT up reply actions
I would go there.
It was a good bottle. Didn’t remember the name. I will now.
We’re a pack of a-holes. And my tradition of contributing absolutely nothing to this site... continues.
whadyamean?
I just want to post some pictures of him on an anonymous internet board populated by a lot of older men of questionable backgrounds…if that makes me a pedo, well then…
-Jeeves Life in the Cell
i don't understand anyone picking konerko. what is he doing that's mvp worthy? being average as shit?
the man is playing a mediocre 1st base while hitting just over league average from a major offensive position. i think he’s been a fucking crutch, especially given the money he’s making. fuck him.
Cashing checks and having sex.
You are forgetting about the scoop.
He can scoop. Scooping saves lives.
We’re a pack of a-holes. And my tradition of contributing absolutely nothing to this site... continues.
you probably just cost youself port slut kissing privileges.
Don't call it a comeback.
by Toonderstrook on Aug 21, 2009 3:29 PM CDT up reply actions
she asked me to kiss her where it smells...
am i doing it right, chiburb?
Cashing checks and having sex.
aj has had a good year. and beckham has been great. i'd choose one of those 2.
Cashing checks and having sex.
I hope you are short the market this last 5 months.
Don’t hate on Eeyore. The Captainship has its burdens.
We’re a pack of a-holes. And my tradition of contributing absolutely nothing to this site... continues.
The team from San Diego (Chula Vista) features a 6-2 220 pounder
They also were accused of “rolling” their bats in the previous series which causes some kind of trampoline effect. They hit 34 home runs in 5 or 6 games including one that went about 100 feet over the fence. Since Chula Vista is about 5 minutes from Tijuana pharmacies (and where Canseco was recently busted crossing the border with PEDs), I’d suspect other things as well.
I don’t trust any of these all-star “coaches” They all seem oily like the guy in Bad News Bears (not Buttermaker)
Quentin is not in the starting lineup against the Orioles on Friday, the Chicago Tribune reports.
He’ll get the extra rest on Friday since Jim Thome is back in the lineup as the DH. Scott Podsednik is in left field on Friday with Alex Rios getting the nod in center for the White Sox.
(Rotowire.com)
Not likey
Q! has been getting hot…keep him moving. All this down time is going to hurt his timing and piss HSA off.
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
by BobbySouthSide on Aug 21, 2009 4:04 PM CDT up reply actions
I'll be on a plane, so I won't even know what I'm missing.
;)
(billyok or Trooper quote)
by homesickalien on Aug 21, 2009 4:28 PM CDT up reply actions
Have a good trip and be safe!
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
by BobbySouthSide on Aug 21, 2009 4:39 PM CDT up reply actions
I hope you get detained for 10 months
The Chicago Bulls.....the more profitable Los Angeles Clippers.
by Ozzie Montana on Aug 21, 2009 4:51 PM CDT up reply actions
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