In Defense of the General Manager
When OSFIB posted this link today, I found my muse for the off day. As most of our readers (and White Sox fans in general) have probably noticed, ripping on Kenny Williams and calling him a below average GM has almost become accepted as common knowledge outside of the state of Illinois. Even other SBN sites have jumped in on it. The thing is, it hasn't been a correct assumption for a while. Further analysis (and an almost complete GM history) after the jump.
The man has made his mistakes and there is no denying that. The Todd Ritchie trade was awful, giving up Ray Durham for Jon Adkins still hurts, and who can forget the confusing multiple trades for Carl Everett and Roberto Alomar. And then there was his unfortunate attacks on Frank Thomas after the Big Hurt had some disparaging remarks towards the only organization he had ever known. The thing is, the man has improved. Over the course of his career he went from the sheep being fleeced to the man holding the shears. Over the past few season Kenny has turned minor leaguers and stable veterans into Freddy Garcia, Jim Thome, Jose Contreras, Javier Vazquez, John Danks, Gavin Floyd, Matt Thornton, Orlando Cabrera, and Carlos Quentin. He snagged Bobby Jenks off of waivers from the Angels. He brought A.J. Pierzynski, Tadahito Iguchi, Jermaine Dye, and Orlando Hernandez in as free agents during a time when other teams were more desirable. He kept Paul Konerko, Mark Buehrle, and Jermaine Dye in town when they could have made more money elsewhere. He gave Ozzie Guillen his first chance to manage a baseball team. He played a large part in the magic that was 2005. He took over an ineffective draft plan, and since he started being more hands on with it the Sox have drafted Aaron Poreda, Gordon Beckham, Daniel Hudson, Trayce Thompson, Jared Mitchell, and Jordan Danks. He opened a pipeline to Cuba using Contreras and El Duque that has helped result in Alexei Ramirez and Dayan Viciedo.
Does he still have his flaws? Yes. His hands were pretty much tied during the Nick Swisher fiasco. He still tends to get tunnel vision and focus on getting a player no matter what or when (Ken Griffey Jr and Jake Peavy). But he isn't the rube he was back in the day. The article OSFIB linked us compared Kenny Williams to a gambler that loses a good deal of money. I like the gambler comparison, but I really don't see the second half being true. This could be me simply being a homer. I do tend to give KW the benefit of the doubt with his moves, but it's not as if he hasn't earned it. He inherited an okay team with no farm system to speak of. He has given us one losing season, two trips to the playoffs, and improving farm system, and a World Series championship. He's even starting to get more credit from actual journalists, which is nice. Is he the best GM in baseball? No, granted I don't know who I would give that title to. Do I believe he is in the top 10? Yes. The man does his best to make sure we remain competetive every season without completely mortgaging the future. Remember that the next time you read about how big of a stooge or over-aggressive moron Kenny Williams is.
GM History from 2000-2008 courtesy of MLB Trade Rumors
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244 comments
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Comments
i wonder if lando calrissian plays kenny williams in moneyball, if that movie ever comes out
you feel?
Always bet on black!
by onlysoxfaninboston on Aug 3, 2009 11:19 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I like your tenacity and aggressiveness, PF.
It is a bit defensive (a wonderful quality, loyalty), though. Not everyone thinks KW was ever a “rube” – hard to imagine a Stanford guy being described as a hick – and he is in the top 10 of the ESPN national poll of the GM rankings. I think most baseball fans (and perhaps GM’s) see him as at least a peer, if not a “man among boys”.
Settle down, Italian man. Breathe.
We’re a pack of a-holes. by rhythm on Apr 14, 2009 1:45 PM EDT
And my tradition of contributing absolutely nothing to this site...
continues.by ReservoirDog on Jul 21, 2009 2:30 PM EDT
by winningugly on Aug 3, 2009 11:20 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
we're sox fans
that’s how we do
Always bet on black!
by onlysoxfaninboston on Aug 3, 2009 11:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
EVERYONE HATES US, WHY ARE THE CUBS ALWAYS ON TV
The Chicago Bulls.....the more profitable Los Angeles Clippers.
by Ozzie Montana on Aug 3, 2009 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
that's so pre-2005
Always bet on black!
by onlysoxfaninboston on Aug 3, 2009 11:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
it may be hard for you, me, and most of us on SSS to imagine kdub being a rube
but while epstein, de podesta, and byrnes have their academic pedigrees mentioned casually in articles, i don’t know if the same holds true for kdub (outside of chicago press).
Always bet on black!
by onlysoxfaninboston on Aug 3, 2009 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You know what this is, OSFIB. I don't have to tell you.
A man of color can never, never take advantage of a white man with a degree and there not be some sort of fraud involved.. (The exception? Your earlier pantsing by larry.)
;)
We’re a pack of a-holes. by rhythm on Apr 14, 2009 1:45 PM EDT
And my tradition of contributing absolutely nothing to this site...
continues.by ReservoirDog on Jul 21, 2009 2:30 PM EDT
by winningugly on Aug 3, 2009 1:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
sorry, i need my sarcasm over the top these days
Always bet on black!
by onlysoxfaninboston on Aug 3, 2009 1:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That Ph.D is taking all the street out of you.
We’re a pack of a-holes. by rhythm on Apr 14, 2009 1:45 PM EDT
And my tradition of contributing absolutely nothing to this site...
continues.by ReservoirDog on Jul 21, 2009 2:30 PM EDT
by winningugly on Aug 3, 2009 1:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
no shit...i just see numbers these days
Always bet on black!
by onlysoxfaninboston on Aug 3, 2009 1:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would have been disappointed if it wasn't defensive... you know, with a title like that.
by Trooper on Aug 3, 2009 1:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You are in need of a serious beat-down.
I can’t wait the six natural months until the kid is born.
We’re a pack of a-holes. by rhythm on Apr 14, 2009 1:45 PM EDT
And my tradition of contributing absolutely nothing to this site...
continues.by ReservoirDog on Jul 21, 2009 2:30 PM EDT
by winningugly on Aug 3, 2009 1:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And of the pitchers he's traded away, are we longing for any of them?
Specifically, any of the “prospects”?
"Baseball is like church. Many attend, few understand."
— Leo Durocher
by Chiburb on Aug 3, 2009 11:30 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
you're doing it wrong.
of course if you look at how things actually turned out KW looks great. but you have to take into account how all those players were, like, awesome at the time and had upper 90s fastballs and power sliders and were adam russell and so on. KW has just been extraordinarily lucky. he’ll regress eventually. charts prove it.
White Sox Minor League Updates: http://twitter.com/SouthSidelarry
by larry on Aug 3, 2009 11:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
has he been extraordinarily lucky, or are his evaluations of prospects in the system valid?
Always bet on black!
by onlysoxfaninboston on Aug 3, 2009 11:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Whoosh.
JD > PhD.
We’re a pack of a-holes. by rhythm on Apr 14, 2009 1:45 PM EDT
And my tradition of contributing absolutely nothing to this site...
continues.by ReservoirDog on Jul 21, 2009 2:30 PM EDT
by winningugly on Aug 3, 2009 11:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i got the sarcasm as soon as i submitted the comment ;)
Always bet on black!
by onlysoxfaninboston on Aug 3, 2009 11:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Too late.
You are on record as having been pantsed by a lawyer. Stand in line.
We’re a pack of a-holes. by rhythm on Apr 14, 2009 1:45 PM EDT
And my tradition of contributing absolutely nothing to this site...
continues.by ReservoirDog on Jul 21, 2009 2:30 PM EDT
by winningugly on Aug 3, 2009 11:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd say 60% the former, 40% the latter. How's that?
I’ll take him.
by dantesox on Aug 3, 2009 11:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Double whoosh.
JD > MSW.
We’re a pack of a-holes. by rhythm on Apr 14, 2009 1:45 PM EDT
And my tradition of contributing absolutely nothing to this site...
continues.by ReservoirDog on Jul 21, 2009 2:30 PM EDT
by winningugly on Aug 3, 2009 11:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
By the way, Sheehan from Baseball Prospectus still thinks Beckham should be at short and Alexei in center.
I know this issue should probably be put on hold until the offseason, but what do you think the chances of us seeing that are next year. I think it has to be considered strongly, especially if we can’t get a centerfielder.
by dantesox on Aug 3, 2009 11:53 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
So...Nix at SS?
I don’t see the rationale in shifting Alexei to his 3rd position in 3 years, and Beckham is a poor defender for about a third of a full season. Hardly any concrete evidence that both of them, along with Getz and Konerko can’t rate out to be a plus defense next season.
The Chicago Bulls.....the more profitable Los Angeles Clippers.
by Ozzie Montana on Aug 3, 2009 11:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nix/Fields at 3B?
Sure. Why not? Nix is an OPS machine. Nix/Fields at 3B spells Gold Glove to me. Becks hasn’t been at 3rd long enough to screw up his development much. And Che will adapt well to his 3rd postion in 3 years. Sounds like a winner to me. Can we submit a petition?
Joe Sheehan has, so far, been slightly wrong on Becks. Search “Joe Sheehan is a hack” on this site for the article where he suggests trading Becks if the Sox are leaving him at 3rd.
We’re a pack of a-holes. by rhythm on Apr 14, 2009 1:45 PM EDT
And my tradition of contributing absolutely nothing to this site...
continues.by ReservoirDog on Jul 21, 2009 2:30 PM EDT
by winningugly on Aug 3, 2009 12:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
bahahaha..the day fields gets a gold glove they’ll have to drill some holes in it for the ball to fly through..much like his 3rd base skills in general..
by Pretender85 on Aug 6, 2009 3:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Beckham's bat obviously doesn't play at 3B
Twitter: @SouthSideCheat
SouthSideSox on Facebook
by The Cheat on Aug 3, 2009 12:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Too many 2B's, not enough HR's.
That dog will not hunt. Fields projects much better there.
We’re a pack of a-holes. by rhythm on Apr 14, 2009 1:45 PM EDT
And my tradition of contributing absolutely nothing to this site...
continues.by ReservoirDog on Jul 21, 2009 2:30 PM EDT
by winningugly on Aug 3, 2009 12:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
no skills.
except, i guess, playing CF.
White Sox Minor League Updates: http://twitter.com/SouthSidelarry
by larry on Aug 3, 2009 12:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
G.M of the entire universe
they should make at least one statue of Kenny. when i found out he traded for griffey i was so excited and now getting peavy is just insane. imagine if peavy has good numbers here wins like 20 games, all we need now is some guys who can hit more.
YOU CAN PUT IT ON THE BOARD YES!
www.reverbnation.com/czheckproductions
by Czheck on Aug 3, 2009 11:54 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
boras factor.
White Sox Minor League Updates: http://twitter.com/SouthSidelarry
by larry on Aug 3, 2009 12:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
"when i found out he traded for griffey i was so excited"
So YOU were the one!
"Baseball is like church. Many attend, few understand."
— Leo Durocher
by Chiburb on Aug 3, 2009 12:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am really impressed with what he's done this year
After the distaster that was 2007, he jettisoned the garbage and restocked with talented youth. The starting pitching staff is one of the best in the majors, and there’s a ton of manevering room on payroll this winter. And he’s done all this while being divisional contenders the last two years.
"It was like everything was slow motion," Wise said. "I stuck my hand out so slowly and was able to make the catch."
by ChicagoPete on Aug 3, 2009 11:57 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
And not busted the budget
so JR can now afford to buy his 3rd sports franchise.
We’re a pack of a-holes. by rhythm on Apr 14, 2009 1:45 PM EDT
And my tradition of contributing absolutely nothing to this site...
continues.by ReservoirDog on Jul 21, 2009 2:30 PM EDT
by winningugly on Aug 3, 2009 12:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, not to put too fine a point on it...
If it hadn’t been for the ‘07 suckitude there’d be no Beckham. Like there’s no rainbows without the rain!
"Baseball is like church. Many attend, few understand."
— Leo Durocher
by Chiburb on Aug 3, 2009 12:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No mushrooms without the poop.
We’re a pack of a-holes. by rhythm on Apr 14, 2009 1:45 PM EDT
And my tradition of contributing absolutely nothing to this site...
continues.by ReservoirDog on Jul 21, 2009 2:30 PM EDT
by winningugly on Aug 3, 2009 12:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow, man. Like I could watch that all day...
"Baseball is like church. Many attend, few understand."
— Leo Durocher
by Chiburb on Aug 3, 2009 12:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I seriously could....I love how the woman's hair is the path and her body, the mountains.
by homesickalien on Aug 3, 2009 12:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rec'd for using a subject line
The Chicago Bulls.....the more profitable Los Angeles Clippers.
by Ozzie Montana on Aug 3, 2009 12:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
this Santana album cover is sweet

The president was drinking Bud Light, Biden was drinking Buckler (a nonalcoholic beer), Gates was drinking Samuel Adams Light and Crowley was drinking Blue Moon.
by e-gus on Aug 3, 2009 3:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I had that when I was 14.
My Dad loved that album.
We’re a pack of a-holes. by rhythm on Apr 14, 2009 1:45 PM EDT
And my tradition of contributing absolutely nothing to this site...
continues.by ReservoirDog on Jul 21, 2009 2:30 PM EDT
by winningugly on Aug 3, 2009 4:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
did somebody say mushrooms?

Twitter: @SouthSideCheat
SouthSideSox on Facebook
by The Cheat on Aug 3, 2009 1:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just another day in the life of our beloved Wiz.
We’re a pack of a-holes. by rhythm on Apr 14, 2009 1:45 PM EDT
And my tradition of contributing absolutely nothing to this site...
continues.by ReservoirDog on Jul 21, 2009 2:30 PM EDT
by winningugly on Aug 3, 2009 1:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
what did you do with wiz anyways?
has he been around since larry callously deleted his minor league masterpiece and you ridiculed him for caring?
by Trooper on Aug 3, 2009 1:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have never met the young man,
thus I have done nothing. I believe, as posted above, his dog died in September. He is in mourning, perhaps.
We’re a pack of a-holes. by rhythm on Apr 14, 2009 1:45 PM EDT
And my tradition of contributing absolutely nothing to this site...
continues.by ReservoirDog on Jul 21, 2009 2:30 PM EDT
by winningugly on Aug 3, 2009 1:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
"I have never met the young man"
never thought I’d hear you say that!
by Trooper on Aug 3, 2009 1:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
not only that
But the Podstad fiasco got the org away from the grinder obsession.
"It was like everything was slow motion," Wise said. "I stuck my hand out so slowly and was able to make the catch."
by ChicagoPete on Aug 3, 2009 1:32 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
He's held the job since 2001, bound to have similar amounts of praise/criticism
People openly rooted for Billy Beane to fail, the flak Kenny gets is no different, just from another contingent of baseball fans.
The Chicago Bulls.....the more profitable Los Angeles Clippers.
by Ozzie Montana on Aug 3, 2009 12:06 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
One guy on SBN, one guy on THT
are not representative of the masses, in my eyes. If we want to get hot and bothered about a percieved slight on an off-day, so be it. Eff ’em – the proof is in the success.
We’re a pack of a-holes. by rhythm on Apr 14, 2009 1:45 PM EDT
And my tradition of contributing absolutely nothing to this site...
continues.by ReservoirDog on Jul 21, 2009 2:30 PM EDT
by winningugly on Aug 3, 2009 12:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
the orthodox opinion amongst the so-called statheads is that KW is a fucking idiot.
i don’t know if u-god was referring to just that group or the “masses” in general but i know there’s a sizeable contingent of those who think KW is pretty strange, too.
White Sox Minor League Updates: http://twitter.com/SouthSidelarry
by larry on Aug 3, 2009 12:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
KW is
a top 8 GM in baseball. I really cannot even find an argument against that statement.
However, I do agree with the article…Peavy deal probably will work out to a degree but he is one of the most overpaid SP in baseball and the fact he is always injured will more than likely bite the Sox in the ass.
I’m a little more content with the Peavy deal than I was on the day it happened, but his salary/injuries still make me shrug that we got him meaning I am not excited about the deal. Part of me thinks the more I point out how I do not like it gives it a higher rate of success to actually pan out so heres to me against the trade…
by Franchise82 on Aug 3, 2009 12:15 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Well, it's your God-given right to have that opinion.
(MM, you have some guido Family members out of work looking for a job, right…?)
We’re a pack of a-holes. by rhythm on Apr 14, 2009 1:45 PM EDT
And my tradition of contributing absolutely nothing to this site...
continues.by ReservoirDog on Jul 21, 2009 2:30 PM EDT
by winningugly on Aug 3, 2009 12:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cheat. "Cheat-given". Fixed.
"Baseball is like church. Many attend, few understand."
— Leo Durocher
by Chiburb on Aug 3, 2009 12:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
always.
Cashing checks and having sex.
by MarketMaker on Aug 3, 2009 5:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Since '01, he's been on the DL twice (I think) before the current stint (which has nothing to do with his arm, elbow, or shoulder).
So where do you get “always injured”?
"Baseball is like church. Many attend, few understand."
— Leo Durocher
by Chiburb on Aug 3, 2009 12:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I believe he has hit the DL in the past 2 seasons and for a considerable amount of time. Once was at the end of the year where he pulled a rib or something.
I did not say he has arm trouble every year, the fact is he gets hurt alot for a SP who makes 17.3mm. You can say Q gets hurt alot too, he has had a shoulder, wrist, and foot injury. Some guys are unlucky with injuries and Peavy seems to be one of them.
by Franchise82 on Aug 3, 2009 12:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's never made fewer than 27 starts in any season since he debuted.
"Baseball is like church. Many attend, few understand."
— Leo Durocher
by Chiburb on Aug 3, 2009 12:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
except this one.
White Sox Minor League Updates: http://twitter.com/SouthSidelarry
by larry on Aug 3, 2009 12:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Prior to this season, he's never made fewer that 27 starts since his debut.
Fixed.
"Baseball is like church. Many attend, few understand."
— Leo Durocher
by Chiburb on Aug 3, 2009 12:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And he will make 20 starts in September.
He’s had plenty of time to rest, dammit.
We’re a pack of a-holes. by rhythm on Apr 14, 2009 1:45 PM EDT
And my tradition of contributing absolutely nothing to this site...
continues.by ReservoirDog on Jul 21, 2009 2:30 PM EDT
by winningugly on Aug 3, 2009 1:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
good game jake. think you can give me another 9 tomorrow?
by Trooper on Aug 3, 2009 1:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hoss Radbourne! Iron Joe McGinnity!
Jak Pavy.
We’re a pack of a-holes. by rhythm on Apr 14, 2009 1:45 PM EDT
And my tradition of contributing absolutely nothing to this site...
continues.by ReservoirDog on Jul 21, 2009 2:30 PM EDT
by winningugly on Aug 3, 2009 1:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Peavy is far from being one of the most overpaid pitchers in baseball
In fact I’d take his contract over the Zambrano, Zito, Sabathia, Burnett, Lowe, Dempster and just about all of the free agent signings of elite pitchers in the last few years. If you add a Peavy and lose a Dotel and Contreras, the salaries paid are about equal but you’ve improved your pitching staff.
Sox win, cubs lose.....what a wonderful world!
by picktoclick on Aug 3, 2009 12:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
agree on zito and dempster since they are not good pitchers. Big Z i put in the same boat as Peavy but he gets hurt less so I’d rather have him.
Burnett/Lowe make something like 12 to 15mm right? CC is at 20 to 22?
by Franchise82 on Aug 3, 2009 12:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
zambrano also has
a lower k/9 with a higher bb/9 and higher whip
" Do you guys know people like you are the reason I wouldn’t come on for exstended periods of time. You rui the baseball blogging expieriance."
by trademaker on May 30, 2009 10:31 PM PDT
by U-God on Aug 3, 2009 12:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
his suspensions make up the diff
Sox win, cubs lose.....what a wonderful world!
by picktoclick on Aug 3, 2009 12:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
he's overpaid by $20.39 million
there was a chart on it.
White Sox Minor League Updates: http://twitter.com/SouthSidelarry
by larry on Aug 3, 2009 12:38 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I retract my statement
Sox win, cubs lose.....what a wonderful world!
by picktoclick on Aug 3, 2009 12:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The reason I say he is overpaid is I feel we can get what his potential output will be for alot less in FA. You could argue that almost every pitcher in the below list is overpaid which is why I dislike using that as an argument for why I do not like him. It is a multitude of things.
1. salary
2. injured
3. road success away from petco
4. we are in a playoff run
theres a bunch of data supporting why to like peavy, but end of the day i just think what he will make coupled with his recent injury history that he will not be worth the 17mm. I do not even factor in the players we gave up.
CC Sabathia, $23,000,000 (2009-15)
Johan Santana, $22,916,667 (2008-13)
Carlos Zambrano, $18,300,000 (2008-12)
Barry Zito, $18,000,000 (2007-13)
Jake Peavy, $17,333,333 (2010-12)
A.J. Burnett, $16,500,000 (2009-13)
Jason Schmidt, $15,666,667 (2007-09)
Derek Lowe, $15,000,000 (2009-12)
Roy Oswalt, $14,600,000 (2007-11)
Mark Buehrle, $14,000,000 (2008-11)
Roy Halladay, $13,333,333 (2008-10)
Ryan Dempster, $13,000,000 (2009-12)
Chris Carpenter, $12,700,000 (2008-11)
Bronson Arroyo, $12,500,000 (2009-10)
Kevin Millwood, $12,000,000 (2006-10)
by Franchise82 on Aug 3, 2009 12:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
There is no way, especially in this economy, that the Sox will outbid others for a FA stud pitcher.
"Baseball is like church. Many attend, few understand."
— Leo Durocher
by Chiburb on Aug 3, 2009 12:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And I recognize at least 1 name on there who is paid at a "home town discount".
Are there more?
"Baseball is like church. Many attend, few understand."
— Leo Durocher
by Chiburb on Aug 3, 2009 12:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
not sure. but i was surprised to see mark was the 10th highest paid pitcher in baseball.
the point i was trying to make is for what peavy has done outside of petco, injury history, etc he is a good pitcher, definitely has the stuff of an ace but will be more of a 2 or 3 in the AL. Should he get 17.3mm – probably not. Could we get a SP that will get near his output – probably.
I think the top FA SP this offseason is Lackey…he will probably get like a Lowe deal.
by Franchise82 on Aug 3, 2009 12:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And we might have an slight argument
that MB is worth every penny. If Peavy comes back to even near his career stat average, park-adjusted, of course, we’re still looking pretty damn good.
We’re a pack of a-holes. by rhythm on Apr 14, 2009 1:45 PM EDT
And my tradition of contributing absolutely nothing to this site...
continues.by ReservoirDog on Jul 21, 2009 2:30 PM EDT
by winningugly on Aug 3, 2009 1:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would think Lackey
is more likely to get a longer term deal given the age difference between him and Lowe. If Lowe can get 4/60, Lackey probably gets 5/75, no? That is probably the base for him in my opinion . . . so I am not sure where you think we would get a SP near Peavy’s value . . . not for that level of committment, in terms of $ and more importantly, YEARS.
"I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it."
by jc2313 on Aug 3, 2009 1:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just because I am not 100% excited over Peavy does not mean I do not see the potential we get in having him. I would be saying the same exact stuff alot of you are to why this was a smart move.
Personally, I just look at Peavy and think “this guy will be injured in 2009” and we will be stuck with a decent amount of spot starts.
by Franchise82 on Aug 3, 2009 1:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
1) Its not 2009
that excites me . . . 2) Thanks for addressing the point of my post . . . I’ll reply to myself then . . .
No, you are right, Lackey is going to get 5+ years and $75+M, so while he might be as good as Peavy, he will actually cost you more. That is a good point. Also, we could not and would not have pursued Lackey, too many years on that contract and we know the Sox dont like pitcher contracts over 3, 4 years at the most. All good points, thanks for the reply!
"I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it."
by jc2313 on Aug 3, 2009 1:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
franchise82 would never suggest signing lackey.
he doesn’t like guys with histories of injury.
White Sox Minor League Updates: http://twitter.com/SouthSidelarry
by larry on Aug 3, 2009 1:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I do not like paying someone 15+ mm who has a history of injuries…I do not mind taking gambles on guys though if the price is right.
by Franchise82 on Aug 3, 2009 1:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hurting yourself celebrating isn't a real injury.
Now punching your bat…
We’re a pack of a-holes. by rhythm on Apr 14, 2009 1:45 PM EDT
And my tradition of contributing absolutely nothing to this site...
continues.by ReservoirDog on Jul 21, 2009 2:30 PM EDT
by winningugly on Aug 3, 2009 1:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are you not mentioning Lackey as the potential FA we could sign
or are you just throwing out the ‘I think we could do better’ without providing even one example how?
"I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it."
by jc2313 on Aug 3, 2009 1:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also, I'm sure there would be many other teams in the running for SP this winter.
If we wait until then, we risk getting caught with our pants down when we realize that we aren’t willing to commit the amount of money necessary to land any of the most sought-after guys. See Torii Hunter.
by ThisIsJustBanter on Aug 3, 2009 1:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Our pants will never be down
because we will never – never – have the expectation that we will sign a high-priced FA. This is no surprise. KW might misread how over-the-top some teams will go to get their man (see Sabathia, CC and Burnett, AJ). But I would not coniser that “pantsing”, since theoretically the value would not be there. (I like this term “pantsed”.)
We’re a pack of a-holes. by rhythm on Apr 14, 2009 1:45 PM EDT
And my tradition of contributing absolutely nothing to this site...
continues.by ReservoirDog on Jul 21, 2009 2:30 PM EDT
by winningugly on Aug 3, 2009 1:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
the being rubbish on the road is a much believed fallacy
Home: 779 K, 212 BB, 51 HR in 728.1 IP, 2.83 ERA
Road: 569 K, 223 BB, 84 HR in 614.1 IP, 3.84 ERA
Coors Field: 36 K, 24 BB, 8 HR in 51.0 IP, 4.59 ERA
Chase Field: 81 K, 34 BB, 17 HR in 78.0 IP, 5.77 ERA
Non-thin-air Road:452 K, 165 BB, 59 HR, 485.1 IP, 3.45 ERA
==> For those who don’t like math, that’s a 9.0 K/9 rate,against a 2.9 BB/9 rate. Road rates (even including the rough parks) are 8.3 K/9 and 3.3 BB/9. Oh, and he’s getting better, with a 10.1 K/9 rate in 2009!!!
For the record, the typical Home/Away split in the NL is 0.50 ERA (4.47 to 3.97 in 2009). Clearly, Peavy has had some problems in Chase Field and Coors Field, but there are no thin air parks in the White Sox division, and only a few games per year in Texas. And any Petco pitcher is going to obviously have a larger-than-typical Home/Road split. But, if you compare the non-thin-air stats (3.45 ERA) to the average road ERA in the NL, Peavy has been a full run better than average (3.45 to 4.47). That’s a Pythagorean win% of .627. The average road win% is .447, so Peavy is .180 better than an average pitcher on the road, a fantastic advantage.
apologies to those who’ve already seen this
by hoodlight on Aug 3, 2009 12:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’ve seen it. I did not say he was a terrible pitcher on the road, just that outside of Petco his numbers do regress a decent amount. If you take out his amazing 2007 season from that equation his road era is 4.5, and outside of philly/colo it is closer to 3.8 i believe.
the point is pitching in the nl west, no dh and now moving to the AL his output will not be that of the 5th highest paid pitcher in baseball.
by Franchise82 on Aug 3, 2009 12:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd like to see more numbers with random seasons plucked out...
especially when that season was… you know… the player’s last fully healthy season.
by CatBrains on Aug 3, 2009 1:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
even with 2007 left in, he is still not dazzling on the road in the NL.
and thank you for pointing out that he has not been healthy in 2+ years. And since his cy young year he has come across 3 to 4 injuries.
by Franchise82 on Aug 3, 2009 1:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
what are these "3 to 4 injuries"?
White Sox Minor League Updates: http://twitter.com/SouthSidelarry
by larry on Aug 3, 2009 1:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Injuries are clearly nebulous
can’t but an exact number on them… but it was more than 3… less than 4
by CatBrains on Aug 3, 2009 1:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I could be wrong, but I think in the playoffs in 2007 he hurt himself celebrating. Took him out for the rest of the playoffs.
then last year and this year. thats 3 off the top of my head. I can research to get the exact injuries but those 3 stick out.
by Franchise82 on Aug 3, 2009 1:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jake Peavy, the San Diego Padres ace pitcher, suffered a bruised rib cage on his right side while celebrating the clinching of the National League West division
think he pitched the next game, got completely rocked because he was hurt then sat out.
by Franchise82 on Aug 3, 2009 1:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He itche
The Chicago Bulls.....the more profitable Los Angeles Clippers.
by Ozzie Montana on Aug 3, 2009 1:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What the....
He pitched in the playoffs, a bruised rib cage is not something that still affects him.
The Chicago Bulls.....the more profitable Los Angeles Clippers.
by Ozzie Montana on Aug 3, 2009 1:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
so it is okay to pluck out coors and philadelphia but not 2007 road? He is moving to a HR ballpark so I would be hard pressed to take out coors and philly and just dismiss his terrible performance there because of thin air. Yes I know, easier to hit the long ball because of it.
by Franchise82 on Aug 3, 2009 1:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dude... do some google searches before you post
Why would anyone even be bringing up Phily when talking about the teams the Padres faces often? Also, they don’t have thin air in Pittsburgh. I’ll give you quarter credit since they are both parks named after banks.
As far as plucking out those numbers, I didn’t ever say I am completely defending that, but it does at least have a stated reason… you just plucked out 2007 because that was his best year. Why would that be plucked out? It’s not so much of an outlier that it can be dismissed as a fluke season.
by CatBrains on Aug 3, 2009 1:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well I plucked it out since every other year on the road his ERA was 4+. That season I think it was somewhere around 2.
2007 on the road seemed like a big outlier to me which is why I pointed it out. I did not just show his numbers without 2007, I stated both.
by Franchise82 on Aug 3, 2009 1:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Those stats are useful for negotiating a contract.
The only stat that means much to me is W/L record, which look good home and away. Until the rules change, the opposing team’s pitcher is pitching in the same park that day.
A strikeout pitcher will keep the ball from our defense too. Kinda like taking time off the clock when you’re ahead in basketball.
Sox win, cubs lose.....what a wonderful world!
by picktoclick on Aug 3, 2009 1:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
W/L is probably the last statistic I would look at.
Edwin Jackson is 7-5 last time I checked. Cliff Lee is sub 500. The list goes on.
by Franchise82 on Aug 3, 2009 1:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So you think that the park 2 pitchers are throwing in a given game is a more important factor than the offenses they will be facing?
by CatBrains on Aug 3, 2009 1:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Only the Metrodome
Sox win, cubs lose.....what a wonderful world!
by picktoclick on Aug 3, 2009 1:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
pitching in petco is the equivalent to facing the worst hitting team in baseball half the time you pitch.
So lets say there is a pitcher with amazing numbers but half the time he pitched versus say the giants circa 2008. I would think less of that pitcher.
by Franchise82 on Aug 3, 2009 1:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I understand park factors... I'm not saying they don't exist
I am saying that park factors don’t outweigh the potential difference between offenses, which they would need to do to even begin to make W/L record a reliable stat… which it is not.
by CatBrains on Aug 3, 2009 1:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
fortunately, the strike zone is
the same in Petco as in the Cell . . . and he still strikes out 9+ batters/9 . . . the level of an elite SP.
Have injuries been a little bit of a problem? Sure they have, but (other than this ankle injury) they have mostly been minor injuries. If you are the White Sox and maybe one of “the” things you do best is keep players healthy . . . maybe taking a player on like this makes more sense? We all get that he isn’t going to have the same ERA he had in NL in Petco . . . that doesn’t change the fact he is an elite SP when healthy and we are very good at keeping people healthy. You add in that it is ‘only’ a 3 year deal instead of the market 5-7 year deal that you would have to pay in FA and you have limited the amount of risk you are actually taking on.
I like the risk/reward profile of the deal, makes perfect sense to me given where the team is today and the prospects they have on the horizon.
"I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it."
by jc2313 on Aug 3, 2009 1:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Of that list the only two I would say are a better gamble
would be Buehrle and Halladay. Buehrle took a home town discount as did Peavy. Halladay is only undervalued for one more year.
Sox win, cubs lose.....what a wonderful world!
by picktoclick on Aug 3, 2009 12:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
needs more speed.
It is clear that power helps you score frequently, and on-base skill helps you pile on when you do score. In fact, a team’s home runs per at-bat has a 0.15 correlation with the difference between the number of wins a team gets beyond what their Pythagorean record predicts. Teams that hit more home runs do better than their Pythagorean Record suggests.
What this means is that power hitters are even more valuable than their VORP suggests. Power hitters not only change the scoreboard, but they change the scoreboard when it matters. The next time somebody tells you that a team is falling short because they rely too much on the long ball, you can reply that they may not rely on it enough.
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=9329
White Sox Minor League Updates: http://twitter.com/SouthSidelarry
by larry on Aug 3, 2009 12:34 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Stop being so obtuse
The 2005 Sox won because they stole 67 bases, not because of the 200 home runs.
The Chicago Bulls.....the more profitable Los Angeles Clippers.
by Ozzie Montana on Aug 3, 2009 12:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You mean 137, not 67. They were caught 67 times I think.
"Baseball is like church. Many attend, few understand."
— Leo Durocher
by Chiburb on Aug 3, 2009 12:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That was Uribe with the CS'.
We’re a pack of a-holes. by rhythm on Apr 14, 2009 1:45 PM EDT
And my tradition of contributing absolutely nothing to this site...
continues.by ReservoirDog on Jul 21, 2009 2:30 PM EDT
by winningugly on Aug 3, 2009 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
so two teams score 900 runs
one has 200 HR’s, the other 170. the one with more HR will win more games.
i cannot comprehend.
by Hatchetm on Aug 3, 2009 1:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So is there in statsticial correlation between variance and HRs?
by madvillian on Aug 3, 2009 1:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is it better to score 5 runs every game or 10 one game and 0 the next?
That’s kind a fascinating avenue, I’m sure some work has been done on it.
by madvillian on Aug 3, 2009 1:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Adam Guttridge is working on that as we speak
Sox win, cubs lose.....what a wonderful world!
by picktoclick on Aug 3, 2009 1:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dissappointed at all about losing Delph, or was his loss inevitable?
by CWSKeith on Aug 3, 2009 2:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Inevitable
he was far too good for that league, we all knew he would go in the end. Doesn’t matter, we will win the league easy, over 90 points and 90 goals, we’ve been beating opposition in higher leagues all pre season.
For the first time in ages I’m actually looking forward to going down to Elland Road.
by hoodlight on Aug 3, 2009 2:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think the THT man is following the sheep and not the goats
Adam Guttridge is a recent graduate seeking to continue his baseball career. Employment offers can be sent to adam_guttridge@yahoo.com.
just been mentioned above orthodox seamhead opinion is that KW is a bag of wank. Therefore I’ll write an article to impress people who might give me a job.
by hoodlight on Aug 3, 2009 12:42 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Wet fuck. "KW is a bag of wet fuck". Fixed.
"Baseball is like church. Many attend, few understand."
— Leo Durocher
by Chiburb on Aug 3, 2009 12:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
His gambling analogy that KW had 500k and left the table with 50k is seriously just stupid.
by Franchise82 on Aug 3, 2009 12:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It also relies on the ignorance of the observer...
There are usually buy-in limits both min and max at poker tables… so if it is a table where you can buy-in for 500k, then yes you should indeed see the 50k and realize that he had a bad session… which brings up another point… poker is a game of incredibly high volatility. Even for the best players in the world, the likelihood of a winning session is only about 60 to 65%.
I’m surprised that someone who was so clearly concerned with accuracy of his numbers would make such a weak metaphor.
by CatBrains on Aug 3, 2009 1:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually, it doesn't sound like Adam is that good of a poker player:
- Old men play poker like old men. That is, if they’ve got the slightest inkling that they could beat you, they won’t budge. I was playing a two-table $60+$20 no-limit game that paid top-three just before coming to the airport. Four of us were left, and I flopped top two pair. An ancient man in a cowboy hat placed a meager bet; I went all in for roughly 6 times the pot. To my shock, he called me for 90 percent of his chips with a gutshot (and he had the low end of it, at that). The turn was a blank, but guess what he rivered? That cost me a guaranteed $115, and as much as $520. Blech.
Two pair is the classic suckers hand. He doesn’t give enough detail as to what beat him, but his opponent could have been holding anything from a pocket pair to a suited connector. There are a number of ways he gets beat in that scenario and if you are trying to stay alive to a top 3 payout then you just fold and call it that.
by madvillian on Aug 3, 2009 1:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Going all in for roughly 6 times the pot is a good move in about one scenario
and it is pretty much impossible to even know if you are in that scenario… basically if you flop the best hand but your opponent has a monster draw, something to the effect of 14 to 15 outs twice… you might be able to chase them out even though they would be about 50/50 or a slight favorite to win the hand.
I suppose if your opponent was just like a maniac call station it is a conceivably ok move, but still probably better ways to get their money.
by CatBrains on Aug 3, 2009 1:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
right, there are too many ways you can get beat holding two pair
He says his opponent made, “a small bet” after the flop Perhaps he was trying to entice some action on his draw hand? If his opponent had a strong draw (and it seems he did), then trying to entice some action is a good play.
Anyways, Adam will learn that their is more to poker than just knowing the odds, and their is more to baseball than knowing WAR and relative contract values.
Of course it helps immensely to know these things, it it’s only part of the puzzle.
by madvillian on Aug 3, 2009 1:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The main problem with this analogy
is that Kenny never starts out with more than 50 cents.
by Off the bus running on Aug 3, 2009 2:51 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
KW makes it interesting
Just being selfish, an ardent Sox fan has to agree that life with Kenny is way more interesting than life without Kenny?
And most years the team he puts on the field at least gives us a chance.
by Dick Allen's batting helmet on Aug 3, 2009 12:59 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
No doubt
I’d take KW’s style over anybody else’s. Hard to not always have hope when you are a White Sox fan. Add’s quite a bit to fan experience.
by Grinder in Training on Aug 3, 2009 1:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
its certainly better than having an inexplicable hope
with jim hendry in charge of your team
knocked his fucking dick in the dirt! - BuehrleMan
by BoeJouma on Aug 3, 2009 1:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
IAWTP
" Do you guys know people like you are the reason I wouldn’t come on for exstended periods of time. You rui the baseball blogging expieriance."
by trademaker on May 30, 2009 10:31 PM PDT
by U-God on Aug 3, 2009 4:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
IAWTPOS. Fixed.
"Baseball is like church. Many attend, few understand."
— Leo Durocher
by Chiburb on Aug 3, 2009 5:05 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Nothing beats those times when you just have to let off steam and become a subjective fan.
Well, when you’re a Sox fan, anyways. Or else it’s annoying.
But anyways, I’m all for Kenny’s style. It’s a great feeling when you’re absolutely bewildered about a trade, but at the same time know it will somehow work out in the end (or that if it doesn’t, KW will fix it). More teams should experience this – save the high blood pressure.
"wordy and overly verbose."
by larry on Jul 3, 2009 3:43 PM CDT
by Black Sox Baseball on Aug 3, 2009 2:03 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Just what this team needs: Moar God and moar hard-partying tools.
Nothing like getting arrested on your way to a Christian Mission.
And the tools.
by homesickalien on Aug 3, 2009 2:31 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
From the first:
Peavy could not be reached for comment last night. His wife, Katie, said Peavy had to travel to the airport alone because she had to get their children ready for school. After unloading, the plan was for Peavy to park his truck in the parking lot for his brother to pick up later.
Katie Peavy detailed what happened next, according to her husband:
Peavy was unloading the truck and pushing his bags through the gate when he was approached by a female security guard who told him to move the truck.
"Jake told me he said he’d move it as soon as he got his last bag into the terminal," Katie Peavy said. "But the guard said a truck couldn’t be left at the curb without a driver."
The security guard said she would have to write him a ticket. Katie said Jake responded, "Write me a ticket" before saying "Call a real cop."
So she did, and Peavy was taken to jail. Then he had to catch a later flight to the Dominican Republic.
"It was just him not cooperating with the officer who was really just trying to help him," Kincaid said. "(Peavy) was offered some alternatives to help him with the situation, and he declined."
by homesickalien on Aug 3, 2009 2:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
nice how 'call a real cop' escalates it from a ticket to an arrest.
she offered an alternative of her writing a ticket, he accepted. whats the problem?
women.
by Trooper on Aug 3, 2009 2:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Clearly, in a real world environment, the lady cop probably would have laughed it off and then blown him before moving his truck herself.
However, it’s an airport and you have to be a certifiable dumbass to fuck with the authorities at an airport.
Chicago tough????
:)
by homesickalien on Aug 3, 2009 2:48 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
I love the title of that post. That is how it should BE!
Rec’d.
We’re a pack of a-holes. by rhythm on Apr 14, 2009 1:45 PM EDT
And my tradition of contributing absolutely nothing to this site...
continues.by ReservoirDog on Jul 21, 2009 2:30 PM EDT
by winningugly on Aug 3, 2009 2:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
"just leave your car there, mr. trooper. now prepare for your blowjob."

These events have me frightened and on the verge of evacuating my bowels.
by thatshortkid on Aug 3, 2009 3:33 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
lol great solutiion
Carlos Guillen, the Latino Nick Punto
by The_Fan on Aug 3, 2009 7:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
But didn't we learn from the Gates incident that we should never ever question a person
of authority when he/she is doing a job? That mouthing off, whether in one’s home or near one’s truck is just begging to be arrested?
How dare either of them!
"Baseball is like church. Many attend, few understand."
— Leo Durocher
by Chiburb on Aug 3, 2009 3:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i learned the opposite.
always question authority. then you get a free trip to washington d.c. to have a drink with the president.
White Sox Minor League Updates: http://twitter.com/SouthSidelarry
by larry on Aug 3, 2009 3:12 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Don't forget the peanuts!
The Chicago Bulls.....the more profitable Los Angeles Clippers.
by Ozzie Montana on Aug 3, 2009 3:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you are his buddy.
We’re a pack of a-holes. by rhythm on Apr 14, 2009 1:45 PM EDT
And my tradition of contributing absolutely nothing to this site...
continues.by ReservoirDog on Jul 21, 2009 2:30 PM EDT
by winningugly on Aug 3, 2009 4:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
we're all obama's buddy.
White Sox Minor League Updates: http://twitter.com/SouthSidelarry
by larry on Aug 3, 2009 4:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
My bartender is white.
"Baseball is like church. Many attend, few understand."
— Leo Durocher
by Chiburb on Aug 3, 2009 4:17 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
My public affairs cop is white.
We’re a pack of a-holes. by rhythm on Apr 14, 2009 1:45 PM EDT
And my tradition of contributing absolutely nothing to this site...
continues.by ReservoirDog on Jul 21, 2009 2:30 PM EDT
by winningugly on Aug 3, 2009 6:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He was buckin authority
Just like Christ in the temple
by 815Sox on Aug 3, 2009 3:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i completely forgot about the deadspin/daily illini article
so peavy likes the C-U bars. maybe now we can get an editor to actually complete an interview?
These events have me frightened and on the verge of evacuating my bowels.
by thatshortkid on Aug 3, 2009 3:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
honestly
as soon as we got him i thought of that article. looks like i’ll be spending my winter at kam’s hunting for peavy
" Do you guys know people like you are the reason I wouldn’t come on for exstended periods of time. You rui the baseball blogging expieriance."
by trademaker on May 30, 2009 10:31 PM PDT
by U-God on Aug 3, 2009 4:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know, those laws are kinda important to you know, keep bombers away from the airport.
Sounded like he was kinda a douche about it and got what he deserved.
by madvillian on Aug 3, 2009 2:50 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
if you had to go to the dominican republic on a christian mission i bet you'd be in a good mood, too.
White Sox Minor League Updates: http://twitter.com/SouthSidelarry
by larry on Aug 3, 2009 2:58 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Why did he have to go? Shouldn't he be rehabbing or something?
These oft-injured types shouldn’t be allowed to travel without an attending physician.
"Baseball is like church. Many attend, few understand."
— Leo Durocher
by Chiburb on Aug 3, 2009 3:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
note the date.
White Sox Minor League Updates: http://twitter.com/SouthSidelarry
by larry on Aug 3, 2009 3:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Still don't see how it wasn't a voluntary mission trip.... Did I miss where it explains how it was an obligation for him to do that?
Seems like one of those things that probably shouldn’t be forced upon a person….
Sort of like……..
huh.
Makes perfect sense now, actually.
by homesickalien on Aug 3, 2009 3:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wouldn't I have to click thru to do that?
One thing I’ve learned from the kidz this summer is to NOT read linkz.
"Baseball is like church. Many attend, few understand."
— Leo Durocher
by Chiburb on Aug 3, 2009 3:36 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Wouldn't I have to click thru to do that?
One thing I’ve learned from the kidz this summer is to NOT read linkz.
"Baseball is like church. Many attend, few understand."
— Leo Durocher
by Chiburb on Aug 3, 2009 3:36 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
So hard to decide which Chiburb to reply to!
I was going to supplement a previous comment on this topic with a GIS.
The pic I chose was a soft glow Jesus painting.
I ended up not using it and just now when I realized I still had the window open, I looked at it again. And then noticed what it really was.

bwahahahahaha!
by homesickalien on Aug 3, 2009 3:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Holy Shitter!
"Baseball is like church. Many attend, few understand."
— Leo Durocher
by Chiburb on Aug 3, 2009 4:15 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
I feel ashamed that I am slightly aroused by this picture.
I know I should be FULLY aroused! Right, KenWo?
We’re a pack of a-holes. by rhythm on Apr 14, 2009 1:45 PM EDT
And my tradition of contributing absolutely nothing to this site...
continues.by ReservoirDog on Jul 21, 2009 2:30 PM EDT
by winningugly on Aug 3, 2009 6:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The fuck is going on here with Fangraphs and Russell:
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/trade-deadline-prospects-ranked-part-1
A former starter, Russell has responded well to the move to the pen. He has a mid-90s fastball and a good slider but lacks control. At the age of 26, time is not the side of this 6′8" 255 lbs hurler. Right-handers are hitting just .178 and he has a very good ground-ball rate.
I mean, at what point to you take a 26 year old’s stats in AAA with a HUGE grain of salt? The Sox haven’t exactly been flush with back end relief pitching this year and he hasn’t been called up. That and his brief 2008 disaster should be all the evidence you need.
by madvillian on Aug 3, 2009 3:49 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
doesn't seem like that ranking is out of whack.
and erik does note how old he is.
White Sox Minor League Updates: http://twitter.com/SouthSidelarry
by larry on Aug 3, 2009 3:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
marc, not erik
White Sox Minor League Updates: http://twitter.com/SouthSidelarry
by larry on Aug 3, 2009 3:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
eek, I guess ranking him anywhere but number 35 on that list means there are some pretty bad players involvedin the dealine deals
by madvillian on Aug 3, 2009 4:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
RE:
This should be some indication of the prospects we gave up.
“As a teaser for the final rankings, the Top 5 winning organizations in terms of prospect value are: 1. Cleveland, 2. Oakland, 3. Toronto, 4. Pittsburgh, 5. Baltimore.”
by krushcuts on Aug 3, 2009 5:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
well of course cleveland wins
mark shapiro is a genius
" Do you guys know people like you are the reason I wouldn’t come on for exstended periods of time. You rui the baseball blogging expieriance."
by trademaker on May 30, 2009 10:31 PM PDT
by U-God on Aug 3, 2009 5:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Look at his record after 2004!
We’re a pack of a-holes. by rhythm on Apr 14, 2009 1:45 PM EDT
And my tradition of contributing absolutely nothing to this site...
continues.by ReservoirDog on Jul 21, 2009 2:30 PM EDT
by winningugly on Aug 3, 2009 6:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hmmm... they must have not read the comments from their article on Peavy trade
then they would know that we gave up more than Phily did for Lee
by CatBrains on Aug 3, 2009 6:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And Lisa, Jamie, Beck's hair, left-handedness...
Why don’t you climb on Uncle WU’s lap and whisper your wish list into his ear?
Maybe something will come of it…
"Baseball is like church. Many attend, few understand."
— Leo Durocher
by Chiburb on Aug 3, 2009 4:13 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Problems I have with those who bash KW's methods
they don’t take into account that none of what they’re evaluating means anything. If every GM evaluated a trade like this scrub at the HBT, it would be the larger market teams failing to take advantage of their resources. The main goal of a baseball team, or any sports team, should be to improve the present and future chances of playing in and winning the championship. Williams never compromises this goal.
Also, this method brutally shuns the prospects of a player like Peavy’s ability to dynamically alter the playoff picture. That in itself is worth multiple millions.
by Daniel Berlyn on Aug 3, 2009 5:13 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
"Brutally shuns".
Christ, you should be a narrator for “World at War”. Or “The Killing Fields”.
We’re a pack of a-holes. by rhythm on Apr 14, 2009 1:45 PM EDT
And my tradition of contributing absolutely nothing to this site...
continues.by ReservoirDog on Jul 21, 2009 2:30 PM EDT
by winningugly on Aug 3, 2009 6:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
excellent post
that’s why KW is a GM and that silly bugger is
by hoodlight on Aug 3, 2009 5:42 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
that's
why KW is a GM and that silly bugger is . . .
a fucking wanker?
a cunt rag?
a blogger?
by soxshenanigans on Aug 3, 2009 7:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i thought i'd balance out the link i posted earlier from THT
with some terrific insight on the trade by jack mcdowell
i wish he was our gm instead of kenny, and jack didn’t even go to stanford
Always bet on black!
by onlysoxfaninboston on Aug 3, 2009 6:05 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Yes, Jack did go to Stanford
Sox win, cubs lose.....what a wonderful world!
by picktoclick on Aug 3, 2009 7:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
damn, osfib and the pwnership trifecta
These events have me frightened and on the verge of evacuating my bowels.
by thatshortkid on Aug 3, 2009 7:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i was fairly sure osfib was being sarcastic (hopefully)
" Do you guys know people like you are the reason I wouldn’t come on for exstended periods of time. You rui the baseball blogging expieriance."
by trademaker on May 30, 2009 10:31 PM PDT
by U-God on Aug 3, 2009 7:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
uh huh
Always bet on black!
by onlysoxfaninboston on Aug 3, 2009 7:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey everybody, what time's the game tonight?
Where’s the game thread? Guys? Hey guys?
¡signature!
by billyok on Aug 3, 2009 6:11 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
*crickets
i'll delete your SSS existence in a second. there is nothing that allows SSS posters, at any one moment, to keep posting, but the mere pleasure of larry.
-larry
by blackoutsox on Aug 3, 2009 6:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
B'more up 5-0 already in Detroit! That counts for something right?
by ThisIsJustBanter on Aug 3, 2009 6:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i'm confused, but not disappointed, by the apparent lack of fanny in that pic.
by Trooper on Aug 3, 2009 6:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
because it's covered by the thong?
These events have me frightened and on the verge of evacuating my bowels.
by thatshortkid on Aug 3, 2009 6:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You can always look at HSA's post above.
If ass is what you want.
We’re a pack of a-holes. by rhythm on Apr 14, 2009 1:45 PM EDT
And my tradition of contributing absolutely nothing to this site...
continues.by ReservoirDog on Jul 21, 2009 2:30 PM EDT
by winningugly on Aug 3, 2009 6:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
"fanny" translates to "pussy" across the pond
true story: my girlfriend works for a british company with offices all over the states and occasionally has to make trips over there for conferences and meetings and such. one night out at dinner and drinks with all british colleagues, she goes on and on making fun of dudes that wear “fanny packs”. can’t believe they wear them, how they look silly, on and on, repeatedly using the term like it’s going out of style. she didn’t know that “fanny” is different over there and none of her dinner mates had heard of our term for waist pouches, all of them high-level managers.
they sat there aghast until somebody finally broke the ice and translated things. she apparently turned beet red. i wish i could have been a fly on the wall.
These events have me frightened and on the verge of evacuating my bowels.
by thatshortkid on Aug 3, 2009 7:10 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
i worked with a south african gent for a while
at lunch I offered him a cookie.
he thought I was joking and cracked up.
I guess a cookie over there is called a biscuit and a pussy is called a cookie.
who knew.
The president was drinking Bud Light, Biden was drinking Buckler (a nonalcoholic beer), Gates was drinking Samuel Adams Light and Crowley was drinking Blue Moon.
by e-gus on Aug 3, 2009 8:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That is hilarious.
We’re a pack of a-holes. by rhythm on Apr 14, 2009 1:45 PM EDT
And my tradition of contributing absolutely nothing to this site...
continues.by ReservoirDog on Jul 21, 2009 2:30 PM EDT
by winningugly on Aug 4, 2009 7:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Speaking of this subject. Working now so can't join in the fun
I did manage to pick a fight over at A’s….. Sorry for the length
I read this kind of stupid shit far too often.
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Well at least today
We found who the awful GM’s are.
Kenny Williams, Walt Jocketty, Frank Wren.
The good ones? Jack Z. , Neal Huntington, and Mark Shapiro looks like he did a decent job.
“I feel like we are sending Danny Haren for Mulder all over again.” – Cardinal fan on the Matt Holliday trade
“But at this time of year, two plus two doesn’t always add up to eight. Sometimes, it equals four.” – Geoff Baker, Mariners beat writer.
by Orodawg on Jul 31, 2009 8:25 PM CDT reply reply actions actions 0 recs
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Looking at the whole last month or so, Mark Shapiro didn’t do a decent job IMO
He could very easily have gotten more for Lee and VMart, especially Lee. Reeks of desperation. Easily. Although I like the DeRosa trades.
And Mozeliak kinda looked err…interesting. Jury’s way out on him. You just traded most of your best prospects in 2 deals to improve the offense. Nice set of win now moves. Your manager, despite the fact that he’s a really good manager, really isn’t putting the best lineup on the field primarily. Your best players need to be starting in a pennant race.
Kenny Williams wins the Double Facepalm. The worst use of 6 pitching prospects I can imagine over the last two years/4 major trades. Especially since 3 were top 50-75 (maybe even better) prospects when traded, and the 4th was a league average BOR starter. I’m sorry, but that’s the 4th straight major bad trade ( both Swisher trades, and then Vazquez, although jury is somewhat out on Swisher #1 for the A’s, Swisher #2 makes both Swisher trades absolute epic fails on KW’s part).
Oh. Sabean is just a fucking moron. Period.
Neal Huntington looks really good.
“I generally avoid temptation unless I can’t resist it” ~ Mae West
by Blicks on Jul 31, 2009 9:23 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions 0 recs
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What a stupid and lazy assessment
But these types of things written about KW are really quite funny, considering his results. Oh and your opinion is wrong. The White Sox are not the A’s. They don’t have to operate their franchise like a bottom feeder in terms of revenue. Give me a break.
“Oh well back to work”
by Tdogg on Aug 2, 2009 4:56 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions 0 recs
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KW has been over-rated for years, him and his yapping dog of a manager wouldnt know how to build a good baseball team if it fell on their heads, which luckily for them, it did in 2005 when every single pitcher they had managed to pull off a career year. Of course they say the Posednik was the whole reason why they won, smh. They arent going to win again unless they have 12 pitchers simultaneously have career years again.
by PL78 on Aug 2, 2009 6:54 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions 0 recs
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Who is they?
Again what kind of silly analysis is that. And over rated by whom? You retards have been saying the same stuff for years somehow tossing out the White Sox’s results and the position they are in for the next 3 years. Care to wager who reaches the promise land again first? I respect the hell out of Billy Beane. Its his wanna bees without an ounce of objectivity or sense that irritate the hell out of folks.
“Oh well back to work”
by Tdogg on Aug 2, 2009 9:30 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions 0 recs
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They = Ozzie and KW, who are also both complete clowns and terrible at their jobs.
White Sox arent going anywhere while they are running the show. Oakland will win a WS before the White Sox, easily. With the Peavy trade they now have one of the worst farm systems going, and the offense is looking pretty putrid going forward. The Tigers have that division locked down going forward.
by PL78 on Aug 3, 2009 1:16 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions 0 recs
Lol
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I don’t know why I thought the quality would be better around here. I am going to take it you don’t represent the norm (i hope not)
1) The have already gone somewhere while they ran the show, including a division title last year
2) The Peavy trade took 1 upper tier prospect and back end rotation guy for a 4-5 WAR pitcher for the next 3-4 years
3) Quentin and Beckham have no future (lol again)
4) Buehrle, Peavy Floyd and Danks hmmm.
5) Actually the White Sox farm system is in the best shape its ever been in
6) Unfortunately not a lot of folks (including the lastest BP projections agree with you about the Tigers)
“Oh well back to work”
by Tdogg on Aug 3, 2009 7:04 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions 0 recs
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Delusional White Sox fans = lol.
by PL78 on Aug 3, 2009 2:09 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions 0 recs
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I may be delusional but I notice you couldn’t dispute one thing I said.
Either way I’m finished arguing with you. More than happy to talk to someone who is not clueless.
“Oh well back to work”
by Tdogg on Aug 3, 2009 6:54 PM CDT
"Oh well back to work"
by Tdogg on Aug 3, 2009 6:59 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
kdub and ozzie are complete clowns and terrible at their jobs
hmmmm….
you make a good point, i like beane too, but i hate the snobby seam head wanna bees
Always bet on black!
by onlysoxfaninboston on Aug 3, 2009 7:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess I can understand people disliking Ozzie
But how in the world can you say he is a bad manager if you’ve ever watched the guy or looked at his results?
by Grinder in Training on Aug 3, 2009 7:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dude you can't talk about the A's
they’ve won like 23 world series under Beane haven’t they? I mean aren’t they making a movie about Beane and his greatness?
R.I.P. Nick Adenhart
by Jbasic89 on Aug 3, 2009 8:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
WU
shit like this is why i felt this post was necessary
" Do you guys know people like you are the reason I wouldn’t come on for exstended periods of time. You rui the baseball blogging expieriance."
by trademaker on May 30, 2009 10:31 PM PDT
by U-God on Aug 3, 2009 7:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hear you,
but if you are in a prominent position there will always be critics. And, frankly, the only ones who matter are his family, employers, Ozzie, and the other GM’s. I can assure you, no other GM thinks KW’s an idiot.
The people who love you, pay you, and trade with you are important. The hoi (as colin would say) is not.
We’re a pack of a-holes. by rhythm on Apr 14, 2009 1:45 PM EDT
And my tradition of contributing absolutely nothing to this site...
continues.by ReservoirDog on Jul 21, 2009 2:30 PM EDT
by winningugly on Aug 4, 2009 7:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nice smackdown, dogg!
KW is a huge reason for our success this decade and anyone who says anything different is a moron.
by Q!'s Qrew on Aug 3, 2009 7:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I forgot how amazing Eric Patterson was, and that Sean Gallagher, he's a real stud
This is why baseball can be such a crappy sport to follow. There are such stupid segments of “purists” who act like any championship that isn’t won in their preferred matter is tainted. The people who vilify journalists who treat Tony La Russa like Jesus are the same who would cover themselves in fecal matter if Bill James or Billy Beane said so.
The Chicago Bulls.....the more profitable Los Angeles Clippers.
by Ozzie Montana on Aug 3, 2009 9:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i dont understand the part where you say Quentin and Beckham have no future
its funny to see fans from other teams talk about stuff they have no idea about with our team
i'll delete your SSS existence in a second. there is nothing that allows SSS posters, at any one moment, to keep posting, but the mere pleasure of larry.
-larry
by blackoutsox on Aug 3, 2009 11:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
By the way U-god
Nice piece. I honestly think a large part of the hate (in addition to not acknowledging growth) is this warpped sense from small to medium market teams the White Sox should do things their way or everything else is complete luck or garbage. That way they “earned” it. Ironically rarely, and it could be anecdotal, do I read that crap from New York or Boston fans. I mean is there no other way to build teams.
The Minnesota fan who visited and said he was not used to trading prospects so often…. was kind of telling.
The seam head wanna bee is what really gets my ire and sheds a unnecessary bad light on Beane. Its not like he is walking around spewing that stuff. I suspect he’s seen the growth and thinks twice in trades with KW.
"Oh well back to work"
by Tdogg on Aug 3, 2009 7:22 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
it's pretty hard to disparage the first swisher deal
unless examined in light of the second. gio, dls and sweeney are obviously not missing pieces from the ‘08 or ’09 Sox and it doesn’t look like they’ll be such in ’10 either.
THIS STORY ONLY ENDS ONE WAY
by colintj on Aug 3, 2009 7:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
at the time the trade looked ridiculous
and what we got for swisher was even more ridiculous. The pieces we gave up for swisher arent going to amount to much, same for what we got for swisher
Carlos Guillen, the Latino Nick Punto
by The_Fan on Aug 3, 2009 7:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
eh it was worth getting rid of swisher for a ball of bags
(which may have been more useful than what we actually got) … but nunez looked good in his one batter :)
I just don’t like Swisher. He’s such a phony.
Kenwo4life=ratings
by KenWo4LiFe on Aug 3, 2009 7:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
agreed.
fuck nick swisher.
it is what it is......
by BuehrleMan on Aug 3, 2009 8:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought we could all agree that was a damage control trade
which I thought was a good move, even if the players we got sucked.
If he had another year like last, we would sit on that contract.
by TheFunkle on Aug 3, 2009 9:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
and here i thought KW was a gambler.
White Sox Minor League Updates: http://twitter.com/SouthSidelarry
by larry on Aug 3, 2009 9:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Beane thrived when he owned the market
There just isnt enough OBP guys to go around with his disciples and other people who have come to understand player values out there running other teams. As the only game in town, yeah he was the man.
The Sox seem to have incorporated more statistical analysis into their building of the team, they dont give out real long contracts, and with the payroll around $100mil they do the best they can. Not at the bottom like Oakland but certainly not in the big spender role like the Yankees, Red Sox and Cubs.
The president was drinking Bud Light, Biden was drinking Buckler (a nonalcoholic beer), Gates was drinking Samuel Adams Light and Crowley was drinking Blue Moon.
by e-gus on Aug 3, 2009 9:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Beane doesn't really base his teams off of OBP anymore
but it is still encompassed in the development process. Now he bases his outlook on strong defense. He’s hoping the offense will come from the kids, I’m sure.
by Daniel Berlyn on Aug 3, 2009 9:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Video of Old Comiskey
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QX-GXXFriWU
I hardly remember going there at all. I do remember skipping school to go to opening day of the new park and being instructed by my mom to make sure I don’t say anything about it at school.
by 815Sox on Aug 3, 2009 7:34 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
man i miss old comiskey
watching ron kittle and bull luzinski and ivan calderon send shots into the upper deck on onto the roof was amazing.
I do like the Cell now (it took a while…and many many millions of dollars in renovations) to get me to that point…. I just wish they still had an upper deck and roof in left. It was special when someone put it in the upper deck… and god like if they put it on the roof. (hence why Ron Kittle is my favorite to this day). Would be cool to still have that feeling.
Kenwo4life=ratings
by KenWo4LiFe on Aug 3, 2009 7:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That guy really likes Foreigner
It’s pretty incredible how much the neighborhood has changed in the past 19 years. At one point, he drives down my block. Lots of those small factories/warehouses/machine shops have been replaced by homes.
You can’t get a more Old School farewell to Old Comiskey than the Sportswriters on TV tribute show:
by 67WMAQ on Aug 3, 2009 8:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah its crazy
How much that whole neighborhood changed, that is where my mom grew up.
I was only 7 in 1990, I think I remember the neighborhood more then the park itself.
by 815Sox on Aug 4, 2009 8:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
fucking christ baltimore
gave the lead back. 5-5 going into the sixth
These events have me frightened and on the verge of evacuating my bowels.
by thatshortkid on Aug 3, 2009 7:39 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Good post
he has his questionables at times, but he has done a great job. The only better GM’s are Theo Epstein, Billy beane, and Neal hunttington. He is the boldest and most ballsy GM in baseball.
Carlos Guillen, the Latino Nick Punto
by The_Fan on Aug 3, 2009 7:49 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
What I expect from a GM
is to put a team on the field every season that makes every game worth going to, and every year has a chance to take the division, then the pennant, then the series. KW has fit that bill with great sucess in broad strokes. He usually keeps his mouth shut, makes deals with an eye on improving the team for now and future, and signs good players to long term deals to keep em around. Who would you rather have – Hawk? Any of the past 5 Cub GM’s? Keep up the good work KW!
Screw you, monkeyboy, Imma goin Home!
by DrEmilioLizardo on Aug 3, 2009 11:08 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

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