Thome, Contreras Casualties of Underperforming Sox, Payroll Crunch
by The Cheat on Sep 1, 2009 12:20 AM CDT
in White Sox News
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PrintWhen the Sox acquired Jake Peavy and Alex Rios, I made an impassioned plea for increased attendance down the stretch, as they appeared to be over-extended in the payroll department (both present and future). This was assuming the Sox would stay in the race in the mediocre AL Central where nobody was going to run away from them. They've had only 6 home games since then, and for the most part the fans have responded with mid-30k attendance numbers. Unfortunately, the Sox haven't responded in kind, compiling a 3-3 record against the likes of the Royals and Orioles at home before embarking on their current 1-7 road trip of death. It's been 13 days since I've witnessed a Sox victory. They've taken themselves out of the AL Central race before the fans even got a shot to show their support.
With the Sox sinking out of the race, facing a September of disappointing turnstile numbers, and little to no hope of the significant influx of cash a playoff appearance provides, Kenny Williams' hand was forced. Well maybe not forced, but certainly coerced. Jerry Reinsdorf operates the White Sox as a business. He likes to say that he didn't get in this business to lose money, which has always made him an easy target for ill-informed talk-radio callers. The Sox were probably over their skis even if they made the playoffs, and certainly are now after the last two weeks of uninspired baseball. Thus, Kenny Williams, who is always looking to buy even when he's selling, was in full dump mode looking to shed payroll and send a message to his underachieving club.
Taking a look at the two trades, the Sox didn't get too much in the way of salary relief as they appear to have included undisclosed amounts of cash in each exchange, and didn't receive any impact players in return. Justin Fuller is a 25 year old who hasn't been able to escape the clutches of A-ball, and Brandon Hynick is a command-and-control type who needs a little more of both to have hopes of finding his way into the back end of a major league rotation. Nevertheless, he's still better than Jeff Marquez.
The Contreras trade netted the better return, which seems odd until you think about the motivation for moving Thome. This wasn't a baseball move to make the Sox better. This was Kenny Williams moving Jim Thome to an team that has a very good shot at making a World Series run, the only thing missing from the big fella's Hall of Fame career.
At first, I was quite sad to hear about Thome's departure. It would seem to make the Brandon Allen trade that I didn't bash nearly enough -- I overcompensated in an attempt to appear objective in discussing one of my favorite prospects -- look silly and short-sighted. But I suspect Thome is leaving on very good graces and will be very likely to sign back on with the Sox next year for a significant pay cut. Or at least I hope so.
We'll have to wait until we hear from the man in charge himself to try and guess his future plans for the organization. But one thing that needs no explanation is Tyler Flowers impending call-up, which just got a heckuvalot more interesting.
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here comes more knobslobbing in another thome/contreras departure thread
and frankly, its warranted. good write up cheat.
we are gonna skullfuck this guy - thecip
few people would be suprised.
hes got plenty of money, he doesnt seem like a greedy guy, and he said he would like to retire in a sox uniform. i bet he’d take a pay cut too.
we are gonna skullfuck this guy - thecip
If he intends to play baseball next year, a pay cut will be required.
I also think it’s reasonable to think the Sox would pick him up on the cheap next year. He’ll be cheaper than Dye, and provides lefty power they’re suddenly devoid of.
I wouldn’t hate it. But I’d like Abreu more.
"I would literally vote for a horse if one were put on the ballot against Stroger."
"I would literally have sex with a horse before voting for Stroger."
well yeah, there are certainly more desirable lefty bats
id be okay with thome coming back though
we are gonna skullfuck this guy - thecip
No there aren't, this has been discussed at length however.
In any case is there any precedent for a veteran leaving late in the season and coming back the following FA signing period?
i believe you are forgetting the exploits of one mr. world series hero, geoff blum
These events have me frightened and on the verge of evacuating my bowels.
It's somewhat common, though the only example jumping to mind at the moment is Rickey Henderson, who did it at least once.
"I would literally vote for a horse if one were put on the ballot against Stroger."
"I would literally have sex with a horse before voting for Stroger."
It'd be nice to see him back..
But not the end of the universe if he doesn’t…I’m happy for him either way..though him coming back at a pay cut would be nice..could stack his HR count a bit next season :)
This will teach me
to go to sleep before midnight on waiver deadline night. Looks like 2010 is here sooner than I thought. Godspeed, J and J. Don’t hurt yourselves out there.
We’re a pack of a-holes. And my tradition of contributing absolutely nothing to this site... continues.
by winningugly on Sep 1, 2009 12:57 AM CDT via mobile reply actions
LOL
he must have woke and mobiled in his response from one of his many trips to the john. One word: Flomax.
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
by BobbySouthSide on Sep 1, 2009 7:01 AM CDT up reply actions
curse of the blingee!
hmm, wonder if the order is right, as well. BA was definitely first, but don’t remember when thome’s showed up.
Quick!
Someone make a blingee picture of Linebrink
by Scotty Ballgame on Sep 1, 2009 8:56 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
DOOOO ITTTT!
Today was a nice day to be out for a walk, look through the window of a restaurant at 2:30, and discover that the Sox started at noon.
by homesickalien on Sep 1, 2009 9:11 AM CDT up reply actions
i think we get to see BA on the BoSox series...
Lets give him a Heroes welcome to the Cell!
they young guys are also perfectly capable of going 1-8 during a pennant drive
No animals were harmed during the making of this comment.
Who knows?
When CLE got rid of V-Mart and Lee they went on a tear that has yet to end.
We’re a pack of a-holes. And my tradition of contributing absolutely nothing to this site... continues.
my flag will fly at half staff at least through tomorrow...
regardless of how many port sluts and port slut apprentices stand in my way. i miss you, JI.
"i don’t use those metrics. i watch them play." fjm. and i don't mean fire.
Thome fan reaction
Glad to see everyone has landed on the “he’s a classy guy who deserves his ring.”
Some people on another site were glad that “the slow, home run or nothing base clogger” was gone.
One also said he was less valuable than Juan Uribe, because Uribe won a ring.
Upon reading that, I let out a heavy sigh…not unlike Al Gore during the 2000 presidential debates.
Too bad the pitching fell apart in the second half of 2006, because that Thome/Konerko/Dye core was absolutely lethal.
Wow
I guess that is where Carl Everett blogs. Earth is flat, we never went to space and dinosaurs never existed either.
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
by BobbySouthSide on Sep 1, 2009 7:05 AM CDT up reply actions
I will miss JI
I hope he gets that elusive ring. Good luck to the Gentle-man Masher. Thanks Cheat for reminding me about the Pena/Allen trade. I hated it then and I hate it moar now. At least the 2009 White Sox Farewell Tour is nearing an end
by Scotty Ballgame on Sep 1, 2009 6:49 AM CDT via mobile reply actions
i want the Brandon Allen back...
made no sense to me then, and Pena has not proved me wrong….
dodgers better fucking win it all
" Do you guys know people like you are the reason I wouldn’t come on for exstended periods of time. You rui the baseball blogging expieriance."
by trademaker on May 30, 2009 10:31 PM PDT
pinch hitter
dh if they make it far enough
" Do you guys know people like you are the reason I wouldn’t come on for exstended periods of time. You rui the baseball blogging expieriance."
by trademaker on May 30, 2009 10:31 PM PDT
Thome has also been reunited with Manny.
There is nothing Fox wants more than a Dodgers/Yankees World Series.
“Torre is back in NY!!!! OMG!!!!”
Pujols is probably a bigger story at this point
And of course a BOS/NYY ALCS probably gets higher ratings or close to equal ratings as any WS matchup
The Fox execs are sporting more wood than an Erin Andrews videographer...
at the thought of a Dodgers/yankees WS
Screw you, monkeyboy, Imma goin Home!
by DrEmilioLizardo on Sep 1, 2009 2:19 PM CDT up reply actions
ive always liked the rockies a little bit, so i WAS rooting for them
now ive gotta go with the dodgers.
we are gonna skullfuck this guy - thecip
I never really had much of an opinion on the Dodgers, but now am a fan. For the next 2 months. Only.
Screw you, monkeyboy, Imma goin Home!
by DrEmilioLizardo on Sep 1, 2009 2:18 PM CDT up reply actions
Yes. :'(
Today was a nice day to be out for a walk, look through the window of a restaurant at 2:30, and discover that the Sox started at noon.
by homesickalien on Sep 1, 2009 9:13 AM CDT up reply actions
i could not care any less whether or not thome is on a world series winning team.
(unless it’s the white sox obviously) i mean, it’s doubtful he’s going to do all that much to help the dodgers get there, and sure, if they do he could do something in the world series, but i don’t understand all this “he deserves it” stuff.
i don’t have a problem with either him or jose leaving at this point, but i’m always going to have stronger feelings for the count. dude helped the sox win a world series. i’m surprised thome’s getting all the love. i’m starting to think you’re all a bunch of racists.
i have an exceeding and slightly hyperbolic hatred of nick swisher. you may think you hate him more than i do, but you would be wrong.
thanks, gentlemen
These events have me frightened and on the verge of evacuating my bowels.
by thatshortkid on Sep 1, 2009 8:27 AM CDT reply actions 9 recs
Game 163 was the second greatest game I got to see in person.
My favorite picture was the shot of Thome’s back as he jogged toward second. All you can see in the background is the outfield wall…and a sea of black.
KW is a sly dog...
Now that he’s taken all the pressure off, our guys will go on a tear, sweep the Tigers in the final 3 games of the year and win the division. Jake Peavy will return to Cy Young form and combine with Buehrle, Danks and Floyd to march through the AL playoffs and set up a 50th year rematch with the Dodgers.
The series goes the distance and in game 7 at the cell, DH Jim Thome hits the game winning home run into a sea of black.
Does Flowers get at-bats as the DH
Or does Pods get the majority of the time there?
by Scotty Ballgame on Sep 1, 2009 8:42 AM CDT via mobile reply actions
Flowers prolly goes from 5-10 games played on his callup
to 15-25 games played (based on performance) Pods will likely see a bunch of time at DH as well, but Flowers is gonna get his hacks, whether behind the plate or as a DH.
Twitter: @SouthSideCheat
SouthSideSox on Facebook
I am excited to see this.
Rosters expand today?
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
by BobbySouthSide on Sep 1, 2009 12:15 PM CDT up reply actions
Yep.
Who’s coming up for us?
We’re a pack of a-holes. And my tradition of contributing absolutely nothing to this site... continues.
Fields too, right?
brndnprkns: I'm pretty sure the "badass" value of your life is closer to Gigli than The Dark Knight
by whitesoxmatt on Sep 1, 2009 12:19 PM CDT up reply actions
I'd throw Hudson at the Cubs on Thur...but that's just me.
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
by BobbySouthSide on Sep 1, 2009 12:19 PM CDT up reply actions
call me crazy
I could see them putting Dye at DH to see if that helps him, but I have a feeling JD is going going gone during the offseason
Was he really pissy
over the Rios pickup? Or was it just a slump?
"The next fu#&@ng person that walks across this stage is going to get fu#&ng killed, aright?"
And as painful as this is
It needs to be done. I really hope KW makes another big move or two in the offseason. We need to rework the lineup this year because it just didn’t get shit done.
and yes losing The Count is not painful now, but lets not forget what he did for us in 05
The rotation is mostly in place
the offense, on the other hand, has some gaps to fill. If they have limited funds I’d like to see them shore up the fifth starter spot with someone semi-legit — could they get Harden on a short-term, incentive-laden deal? He’d be a pretty fantastic fifth starter candidate.
I for one do not want to give up a 1st round
or 2nd round draft pick if they continue to plummet for an oft-injured pitcher
by Scotty Ballgame on Sep 1, 2009 9:22 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
You wouldn't give up a second-rounder for Harden?
and — as of today — the Sox would be picking 13th overall (thus a protected first-round pick). The three teams closest to them are Milwaukee (64-66), Seattle (68-64) and Florida (68-63). The Sox would have to finish better than all three for the pick to become unprotected.
I would not give up the pick
and more importantly, pay the money that is likely to be required. Makes little sense for the Sox to spend anymore serious $ on starting pitching. Maybe a scrap heap guy (Garcia/Colon) for an incentive laden deal, but that is it.
Would you please put some pants on? I feel weird having to ask you twice.
I should note I'm not advocating "spend[ing] serious money on starting pitching"
I’m going off the assumption that Harden would come relatively cheap, which could very well be a dubious assumption.
Depends on what your definition
of ‘cheap’ is . . . and he won’t be cheap in my book The only resources they should commit to more SP would be <1M base with incentives added on . . . Harden wont come anywhere near that. Any extra $ they have, need to go to other areas.
Would you please put some pants on? I feel weird having to ask you twice.
A couple of things...
- Where do you think they’re going to be at as far as payroll for next year? When factoring in arbitration, it looks like they’re right around $85 million heading into next year. Is $100 million a reasonable estimate? If so, that gives them $15 million to play with. If market rates stay the same as last year, that should be more than enough to fill two ‘holes’.
- What do you see as holes heading into next year? DH and one of RF? Is 2B considered a hole?
Thome and Byrd plz
would also like Figgins, but that seems greedy.
2009 is just 2007 in 2008's clothing.
re: greedy
if Keith is right that we’re starting at 85MM post arb, i’d guess that leaves Kenny 15-30MM. 30 might not be enough to get you another back end starter type, chone, byrd and thome.
2009 is just 2007 in 2008's clothing.
Well, you can have Garcia for $1M -- I believe that is the option the Sox hold for 2010
by hitlesswonder on Sep 1, 2009 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions
he's probably only going to make 10-15 starts.
still need another one.
2009 is just 2007 in 2008's clothing.
I think the Sox might legitimately hope Hudson will be ready when Garcia implodes
by hitlesswonder on Sep 1, 2009 11:41 AM CDT up reply actions
I dont think your assumptions are unreasonable
If it is me, I am adding an OF . . . as Colin mentions above, Byrd might not be a bad option . . . I think they probably need to land another bullpen arm one way or another and then a DH as you suggest . . . but, that should be able to be done rather cheaply.
And as usual, I would put nothing past Kenny in the trade market . . . Alexei/AJ will likely hold some value and are holding positions of your 2 best prospects, and I am sure he would not mind freeing up the $ that will soon be attached to the overpaid closer.
Would you please put some pants on? I feel weird having to ask you twice.
If we do have 15 million to spend
I’d much rather it be spent on position players and the bullpen. Our rotation already has a ton of money invested in to it, and is pretty solid. Let’s fix our problems before we start going for luxury items like a good number 5.
by Grinder in Training on Sep 1, 2009 10:35 AM CDT up reply actions
I see what you're saying but don't think adding a more competent fifth starter is a 'luxury'
I just think it would be preferable to have Hudson starting the year sixth or seventh on the depth chart rather than fifth or sixth. And one good start from Freddy G doesn’t convince me that he’s anything more than replacement level.
I’ll back off a bit and say this — the Sox need to look at getting the most production for the least amount of money (duh). If I had my druthers I’d go at Cameron for two years (Byrd ain’t a bad plan B, though, and given his age he might be better) and bring back Thome to DH (with Flowers on the 25-man as a backup C, 1B and DH). Having Cameron/Byrd + Rios in CF and RF respectively rather than the mismash we’ve had there this season has gotta be a two-to-three win upgrade, no?
of course a 5th starter is a luxury. how many teams have one with an ERA+ better than 5?
2009: Not with a bang but a whimper.
The fifth starter is going to get what, 150-160 innings per year?
just because most-to-all other teams’ fifth starters suck doesn’t mean the Sox’ have to. If the Sox can get a league-average type at the back of the rotation, that’s a huge advantage. It also dampens the need to replace Dotel — less bullpen innings is almost certainly a good thing for any team. One of the perks of 2005 was having what was likely the best fifth starter combo in the league — 22 starts of El Duque’s 5.12 ERA and 10 starts of McCarthy’s 4.03 ERA (approx. 195 innings total).
Look — I’m not saying “go get a good fifth starter!” in a vacuum. Obviously it depends on the cost and weighed against how that money would otherwise be utilized. I’m interested to see what the market is for Harden — if it’s mostly one year, decent-base-with-loaded-incentives (which I again admit might be a silly assumption), I certainly think the Sox should be in on that.
I think a position player is more valuable
Don’t stats sort of back up the “everyday player>every 5th day” belief"?
I love the idea of a solid 1 to 5 rotation, but getting a 5th starter that’s better than most 5th starters will probably require $$. A bunch of teams will be trying to sign Harden to be their #2 or #3 starter I think, even with his injury history.
If there’s anyway the Sox have enough money to get a real bat for the OF, I’d rather see that happen. The offense was bad this year and losing Thome and first-half Dye is going to make worse unless there are some upgrades.
by hitlesswonder on Sep 1, 2009 11:40 AM CDT up reply actions
I just think it's the least of your worries is all
I’ll take the Garcia half year / Hudson half year combo for basically nothing and spend the money elsewhere.
Of course if we can fill all our holes, and still afford Rich Harden, then go for it. I just don’t think that’s the case. We have bigger priorities.
by Grinder in Training on Sep 1, 2009 11:40 AM CDT up reply actions
i'm pretty sure some team will overpay for Harden before we even get a crack at him
2009: Not with a bang but a whimper.
I agree.
He will get good money, he’s still young and even if he doesn’t pitch the whole season, him for 2/3rds of a season is pretty valuable.
by Grinder in Training on Sep 1, 2009 1:12 PM CDT up reply actions
oh yeah! lets tank the rest of the season to move up in the draft...
we could get the 2nd coming of Beckham…
Harden was someone I thought of as well
I’d love to see that, but unless he implodes I’m pretty sure Freddy’s $1M will be picked up and we’ll see a Freddy/Hudson combo next season.
As much as I don’t like that idea, I think the offense is in more dire straits and I rather see someone that can hit everyday acquired. I’m worried they will accept cheap mediocrity at 2B, DH, and the OF though…
by hitlesswonder on Sep 1, 2009 9:24 AM CDT up reply actions
I'm still okay with Getz/Nix at second-base
note my word choice of “okay”. I’m not thrilled with the two but combined this year they’ve put up a .330 wOBA with average-ish defense. Nix will likely regress but I think it’s reasonable to think Getz improves a tad and thus next year you get a similar end product. As of today I’d say Thome comes back, as he’ll likely be cheaper than Dye, won’t require a multi-year deal and is lefty (which is admittedly a rather arbitrary defense). RF looks like a black hole of sorts. It would certainly be helpful for Rios to bounce back to his 110-120 OPS+ days, although — I know, small sample size and everything — he’s looked absolutely putrid since his arrival.
Rios
I don’t see him bouncing back to 120+, but if they play him CF and get a better corner hitter then that is much less of a concern. I hope they don’t play him in RF, although that seems sort of likely.
by hitlesswonder on Sep 1, 2009 10:04 AM CDT up reply actions
i see Q taking up RF...
and Chione Figgins at LF…
Yep. Otherwise he's not worth the money.
I suspect KW will have chat with OG…
"Baseball is like church. Many attend, few understand."
— Leo Durocher
Next season's DH/RF/3B
Put me in the hoping the Sox re-sign Thome on the cheap for next season.
I’m assuming there’s no way they pick up Dye’s option, and that they will have an OF spot to fill as well. I’d really, really like Rios and his .750ish OPS in CF and someone that can really hit picked up for left or right. I have it feeling it will be Pods, unfortunately.
I think next season’s offense is going suck unless the Sox realize they need to bring a major offensive upgrade at some position. I know they love Getz, but bringing in a 2B or 3B that can really hit would be fine with me. FIGGINS!!!
This clears the way for Kenny to sign Big Frank to a 1-day contract
so he can retire as a white sox
by Scotty Ballgame on Sep 1, 2009 9:13 AM CDT via mobile reply actions
Steve Stone got into the coffee again
Jim thome who was traded to the dodgers late last night, said to one of the sox coaches—think i should call them and mention i dont play 1st base anymore
Dodgers traded for Thome to put out the LA fires
and rebuild the burned down homes
by Scotty Ballgame on Sep 1, 2009 9:27 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Tebow is there to heal the sick
and perform circumcisions
by Scotty Ballgame on Sep 1, 2009 10:45 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
THESE NEW DODGEMEN ARE SO NI
NICE. THEY KNEW HOW MUCH OL JIM LIKED SOME MORES AND MADE A CAMPFIRE FOR HIM.
These events have me frightened and on the verge of evacuating my bowels.
by thatshortkid on Sep 1, 2009 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
You are on a roll, TSK.
Rec’d.
We’re a pack of a-holes. And my tradition of contributing absolutely nothing to this site... continues.
Thank you for everything, Count and Gentleman Masher.
Two class acts.
I’m very sad on this Tuesday morning.
Today was a nice day to be out for a walk, look through the window of a restaurant at 2:30, and discover that the Sox started at noon.
by homesickalien on Sep 1, 2009 9:21 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
I WILL MISS THE LARGE AFRICUN WOMAN NOWN AS HARPO
THE MOST. SHE IS VERY NICE AND GIVES AWAY CARS.
We’re a pack of a-holes. And my tradition of contributing absolutely nothing to this site... continues.
by winningugly on Sep 1, 2009 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
Hilarious.
Today was a nice day to be out for a walk, look through the window of a restaurant at 2:30, and discover that the Sox started at noon.
by homesickalien on Sep 1, 2009 11:43 AM CDT up reply actions
Thome and Manny
That should be an interesting combo. Manny had hinted at both of them going back to the Tribe in 2010.
"The next fu#&@ng person that walks across this stage is going to get fu#&ng killed, aright?"
October 2.3.4
Love to see Contreras pitching to Thome (maybe even Garland)…
"The next fu#&@ng person that walks across this stage is going to get fu#&ng killed, aright?"
Like some other posters.....
I don’t believe that the Thome trade means he is permanently gone from the Sox……not sure Cowley basically said this during his interview this A.M.
He has a .370 OBP and .864 OPS
If he’d be willing to try to replicate those numbers for $4M or something like that, why wouldn’t you do that?
You are not going to get that production from anyone in the Sox minor league system, and any other FA would likely be more expensive.
Put the best team on the field you can in 2010 and don’t throw out an option cause a guy is old and slow. It’s not like anyone is talking about a long-term contract here.
by hitlesswonder on Sep 1, 2009 10:31 AM CDT up reply actions
outside of Bay and Holliday, i don't think there are better hitters available
2009 is just 2007 in 2008's clothing.
This.
We’re a pack of a-holes. And my tradition of contributing absolutely nothing to this site... continues.
Abreu, possibly.
I’m a little concerned about Thome’s bat speed.
EVERYBODY PICK US FOR 3RD OR 4TH SO I DINK WE DOIN POOTY GOO
Sox Machine
good catch. he's on the list.
as for bat speed you might look for evidence on hit tracker? contact rate too, i suppose.
2009 is just 2007 in 2008's clothing.
Well, I think the argument could be made
for any of these guys as well. . .
Branyan
Nick Johnson
Vlad
Matsui
Would you please put some pants on? I feel weird having to ask you twice.
I'd like to see Vlad DH'ing in the Cell next year
Question I have is who gets the other corner OF slot?
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
by BobbySouthSide on Sep 1, 2009 12:03 PM CDT up reply actions
vomit
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
by BobbySouthSide on Sep 1, 2009 12:12 PM CDT up reply actions
Quentin in RF, Pods in LF
barring a trade, I would not be surprised by that . . . though I think Marlon Byrd’s name has been mentioned in different places. Would probably be a good fit.
Would you please put some pants on? I feel weird having to ask you twice.
I agree.
And actually, that alignment is not the worst outcome (Pods in CF would be worse).
As for Byrd, he had 2 very good years in 07 and 08 and he undoubtably would be better than Pods. But his .320 OBP this season is pretty wretched. Maybe the small upgrade from Pods to Byrd is the best we can hope for, but I hope they think bigger to fix the offense.
by hitlesswonder on Sep 1, 2009 12:52 PM CDT up reply actions
they're all a tier down.
i’d go for a lesser player that had a better health/age profile, but i don’t really think those guys do. abreu’s legs are still with him.
2009 is just 2007 in 2008's clothing.
I dont think they are a tier down
obviously that is your opinion. They certainly have age on their side and asking Thome to duplicate his production and playing time this season seems liking asking for more than you are likely to receive in his age 39/40 season. All those players above have had injury issues like Thome, but have age on their side.
Just saying, there are plenty of options that will/could provide very similar, if not better, production. It isnt as cut and dry as you state it to be.
Would you please put some pants on? I feel weird having to ask you twice.
i'm just eyeballing it
and maybe i’m a little sentimental. hence the use of tiers.
2009 is just 2007 in 2008's clothing.
didn't realize the dugout i posted yesterday
would be the last one our beloved jimbo would be in as a whited sock
" Do you guys know people like you are the reason I wouldn’t come on for exstended periods of time. You rui the baseball blogging expieriance."
by trademaker on May 30, 2009 10:31 PM PDT
i don't want to give myself hope
" Do you guys know people like you are the reason I wouldn’t come on for exstended periods of time. You rui the baseball blogging expieriance."
by trademaker on May 30, 2009 10:31 PM PDT
by U-God on Sep 1, 2009 9:37 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Could we have possibly gotten a crappier return?
for Thome? I mean, did KW just say, “Give me your worst, oldest-for-his levels player?”
"God knows I gave my best in baseball at all times and no man on earth can truthfully judge me otherwise."
yeah, because the focus of the deal was getting talent in return.....this was about money....
Colleti could have given KW tickets to Wally World and that probably would have been suffice.
No harm in trying to get a higher upside player
"God knows I gave my best in baseball at all times and no man on earth can truthfully judge me otherwise."
by Shoeless In SC on Sep 1, 2009 9:47 AM CDT up reply actions
Money and Kenny telling Ozzie to quit
fucking around and play the guy that Jerry and I decided to pick up and pay a whole crapload of money to. :)
Would you please put some pants on? I feel weird having to ask you twice.
Yes.
We’re a pack of a-holes. And my tradition of contributing absolutely nothing to this site... continues.
I still think Rios ends up sitting a lot
Especially if Wise is back
by hitlesswonder on Sep 1, 2009 10:06 AM CDT up reply actions
That certainly would not surprise me
Would you please put some pants on? I feel weird having to ask you twice.
Not surprising at all
The offensive core of AJ, PK, JT and JD had their chances, and the team had significant second half offensive declines in 06,08 and 09. Let’s not even discuss 2007. Before everyone gets their panties in a bunch about AJ hitting .318 or whatever JT is OPS’ing this year, it still boils down to accountability.
This is their team, these guys are the leaders in the locker room. Management has come to them in the past and asked for input on what’s needed, who should stay and who should go. They’re getting paid a lot of money, and they’ve been given plenty of chances to go out and produce. Bottom line, this offense lives and dies on what these guys do, and it’s been dying AGAIN this year when they need it the most.
I’ve mentioned it before, but I’ve seen enough of those guys. I give a shit how nice a guy they are, win some fucking games when this division is sitting right there for the taking. Looks like KW and JR and Ozzie have seen enough too. I’ll take our chances next year with the young guys that we have and fill in around them – instead of filling in around the old, tired guys like we have been.
No animals were harmed during the making of this comment.
by ChicagoPete on Sep 1, 2009 9:36 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
there was a stretch in July when it perked up
but most of the excitement was coming from the bottom of the order when Lord Beckham was on fire.
No animals were harmed during the making of this comment.
Das
http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/split.cgi?t=b&team=CHW&year=2009
Junes the best with a robust 784 team OPS, which is a tad above average
Compare with the Yankees best month of 868, and 3 other months all above our best by a significant margin: http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/split.cgi?t=b&team=NYY&year=2009 Worst month being 788
was it June?
Makes sense, July probably sucked cause JD went in the tank.
No animals were harmed during the making of this comment.
Playing half June's game against the NL probably helped with those numbers
by Scotty Ballgame on Sep 1, 2009 10:49 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
plus pods
On that fly to right-center
I kinda expected JD to plow into Rios with an ATV.
EVERYBODY PICK US FOR 3RD OR 4TH SO I DINK WE DOIN POOTY GOO
Sox Machine
by Sox Machine on Aug 17, 2009 7:35 PM PDT reply recommended Unrec 3
Curious as to how much Sox actually save.....
I’m guessing Contreras and Thome were owed roughly 5 mil combined for September….and that the Sox are going to end up paying about half of that….
I think the $$$ are a minor consideration
This is sending a loud and clear message that this level of play is unacceptable – now and in the future.
No animals were harmed during the making of this comment.
not sure I agree with that.....I think dropping a couple of mil IS a factor....
b/c of lower than hoped for September attendance projections……and I think giving Thome the opportunity to win a WS knowing it won’t completely destroy the potential to resign him if that’s what is desired is another factor.
I forget exactly what it was
but didn’t he send the memo around the league saying to some extent or another, “Thome, JD, PK, Dotel, Lineskank, Contreras – they’re all dead to me, here, take them.” I don’t think the cash was the burning motive, he’s just as sick of watching this crap as we are.
No animals were harmed during the making of this comment.
somewhat
But don’t tell me that emotions didn’t come into play on this. KW and Ozzie aren’t exactly Vulcans.
No animals were harmed during the making of this comment.
We are gathered here today to pay final respects to our honored dead
But it should be noted that this death takes place in the shadow of new life, the sunrise of a new world; a world that our beloved comrade gave his life to protect and nourish. He did not feel this sacrifice a vain or empty one, and we will not debate his profound wisdom at these proceedings. Of my friend, I can only say this: of all the souls I have encountered in my travels, his was the most… human.
"ALL THESE WORLDS/ ARE YOURS EXCEPT/ EUROPA/ ATTEMPT NO
LANDING THERE/ USE THEM TOGETHER/ USE THEM IN PEACE"
this is how I picture KW after the Yankee series
No animals were harmed during the making of this comment.
And what is the common theme
with all the players you listed?? They all make a lot of money and most of them were FAs after this season. This was certainly about being smart and saving some cash on a couple players that dont have contracts for next year. I am sure he is tired of watching them lose . . . but he didn’t trade Thome for that reason. That doesn’t even make sense.
Would you please put some pants on? I feel weird having to ask you twice.
if he was purely saving payroll, why wasn't AJ on the list?
Seems like the overpaid underachievers are the ones he’s dumping.
The list of available White Sox players, first reported by ESPN.com, included first baseman Paul Konerko, designated hitter Jim Thome, right fielder Jermaine Dye and relievers Scott Linebrink and Octavio Dotel.
and I like this kicker:
That’s not a very exciting group at all," one veteran scout said Monday night.
No animals were harmed during the making of this comment.
what?
He makes between what PK and Lineskank earn, and they’re also both under contract next year.
No animals were harmed during the making of this comment.
beat me too it
AJ has had a great year, the other two have sucked for the most part (Dotel has been good at certain points)
I didn't say he was
He’s not included on the dump list.
No animals were harmed during the making of this comment.
I know this is a difficult thing for you to grasp, so I'll speak slowly for you
I said – if we were purely looking to jettison payroll, why wasn’t AJ included on the list of players he wanted to dump? He’s highly paid, as is Buehrle.
He’s taking out the trash, that’s all.
No animals were harmed during the making of this comment.
jettison payroll that is not under contract next year
AJ is in the teams plans for 2010. Thus, no trade. Not to say JT won’t be back…
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
by BobbySouthSide on Sep 1, 2009 12:32 PM CDT up reply actions
Konerko and Lineskank are under contract
Again, please note the names that were rumored as “available”:
…Paul Konerko, designated hitter Jim Thome, right fielder Jermaine Dye and relievers Scott Linebrink and Octavio Dotel.
No AJ, no MB, no Peavy, etc
No animals were harmed during the making of this comment.
BUT, KW wouldn't be opposed to moving their salaries
and NOT HAVE them in the 2010 plans. It is obvious that AJ falls into the category of our starting opening day catcher!
Why are you so against moving AJ? Guy is arguably are most consistent hitter and doesn’t have an unreasonable contract.
JHC
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
by BobbySouthSide on Sep 1, 2009 12:38 PM CDT up reply actions
are=our
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
by BobbySouthSide on Sep 1, 2009 12:39 PM CDT up reply actions
I haven't said anything about moving AJ
I’ve just lumped him in with the core group, so he’s guilty by association.
I just pointed out on my bills of lading THAT THESE ARE THE GUYS THE KW WANTS TO DUMP
No animals were harmed during the making of this comment.
And you are speaking slowly to other people?
Holy fuck. No shit those are the guys he wants to move . . . and yes he was trying to save money by moving all guys who are:
a) FA after this season or
b) overpaid for production AND
c) Most importantly . . . guys who actually made it through waivers.
Sort of hard to trade an AJ or MB on August 31st when it isnt allowed.
Would you please put some pants on? I feel weird having to ask you twice.
by jc2313 on Sep 1, 2009 12:51 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
no way
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
by BobbySouthSide on Sep 1, 2009 12:52 PM CDT up reply actions
I wouldn't consider AJ trash
but I know you were trying to make it simple.
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
by BobbySouthSide on Sep 1, 2009 12:35 PM CDT up reply actions
* As of late
before I get killed by the beckham fanboyz
Anonymous scouts piss me off
No shit it’s not an exciting group…I don’t think they are planning on moving Beckham right now. Sheesh
by hitlesswonder on Sep 1, 2009 12:53 PM CDT up reply actions
Hah...deal him to the Nationals...try that on for size!
"My problem is, I've been lazy." - Carlos Zambrano
The burning money is a lovely and appropriate touch.
Today was a nice day to be out for a walk, look through the window of a restaurant at 2:30, and discover that the Sox started at noon.
by homesickalien on Sep 1, 2009 10:23 AM CDT up reply actions
vg
didn’t we have another one where he’s makin it rain?
No animals were harmed during the making of this comment.
Hey...Big Jim got his "retirement" job on a potential WS winner
Good for him! Let’s face it, he probably wasn’t getting a ring with the Sox, so I wish him all the best.
And if he gets the opportunity…I hope he teaches Manny what it means to be a class act.
"My problem is, I've been lazy." - Carlos Zambrano
Has anyone relayed the trade information to Bartolo Colon?
Does anyone actually know Bartolo’s location?
Is he on the team?
Is he in the United States?
"My problem is, I've been lazy." - Carlos Zambrano
Bless you, Mr. Thome.
and count as well:
"ALL THESE WORLDS
ARE YOURS EXCEPT
EUROPA
ATTEMPT NO
LANDING THERE
USE THEM TOGETHER
USE THEM IN PEACE"
by thecip on Sep 1, 2009 10:24 AM CDT reply actions 2 recs
How does this effect Tyler Flowers' impending call-up?
really the only point of interest for the rest of the season other than Peavy
Hey, another bright side for Thome-
He can Join the Alyssa Milano Club now! (That’s still the initiation for new Dodgers players, right?)
by South Side Expat on Sep 1, 2009 11:20 AM CDT reply actions
Look, props to Jose...
I was at the pennant clincher in Anaheim and he was masterful. I’ll never forget that, ya big Cubano lug
I'll miss him too
Second half of ‘05, the postseason, and first half of ’06 was the most dominating pitching I’ve seen in a lifetime of watching Sox baseball. When he was good, he was very very good – when he had his control he was absolutely unhittable.
No animals were harmed during the making of this comment.
I really have no use for that other league,but
I’d love to see the Dodgers win it all with The Gentleman Masher.
Good luck Big Jim.
Yes. Hell yes. Mercy. Grab bench. - O.M.
amen
2009: Not with a bang but a whimper.
by Andronicus on Sep 1, 2009 1:48 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
another former white sox 1b/dh type
not only allen, but chris carter is tearing it up…if quentin doesnt return to his 08 form and doesnt get healthy that trade might not look as good as before
believe in Q!
"ALL THESE WORLDS/ ARE YOURS EXCEPT/ EUROPA/ ATTEMPT NO
LANDING THERE/ USE THEM TOGETHER/ USE THEM IN PEACE"
This site is really screwy today (formatting-wise) for me, at least. And now I can't even open larry's latest 'call-ups' thread...it just keeps me on the front page. Anyone experiencing technical difficulties as well?
Today was a nice day to be out for a walk, look through the window of a restaurant at 2:30, and discover that the Sox started at noon.
Fyi, it's only your post that doesn't allow access to comments.
Rest of site is fine.
"Baseball is like church. Many attend, few understand."
— Leo Durocher
Yes. This.
We’re a pack of a-holes. And my tradition of contributing absolutely nothing to this site... continues.
Although the "actions" tab has slid over the icon to its left.
So, no, it’s not just larry’s post (though I can’t access it either). I’ve been having issues with the regular “post” screen bleeding into existing text.
WTF? Thome’s Revenge? Maybe he was smarter than us all…
We’re a pack of a-holes. And my tradition of contributing absolutely nothing to this site... continues.
by winningugly on Sep 1, 2009 1:06 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I've got that actions tab issue as well, yes yes.
Today was a nice day to be out for a walk, look through the window of a restaurant at 2:30, and discover that the Sox started at noon.
by homesickalien on Sep 1, 2009 1:06 PM CDT up reply actions
The System = H.A.L. from 2001 Space Odyssey...he is sad and pissed.
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
by BobbySouthSide on Sep 1, 2009 1:08 PM CDT up reply actions
Nope, all is well on that front. Different browsers, different results.
"Baseball is like church. Many attend, few understand."
— Leo Durocher
I use IE at home and had issues last night...today, Chrome at work and no problems.
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
by BobbySouthSide on Sep 1, 2009 1:10 PM CDT up reply actions
Was just going to post that before larry thought nobody cared.
"Baseball is like church. Many attend, few understand."
— Leo Durocher
I did last night...seems to be better today.
I think the Jim Thome trade made the system sad….
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
by BobbySouthSide on Sep 1, 2009 12:57 PM CDT up reply actions
It did...when I hit reply, my comment box is all messed up and covering someone else's comment...nowhere to actually type. And the Right Rail is all the way at the bottom of the page. I don't see new comments come up, etc....
Today was a nice day to be out for a walk, look through the window of a restaurant at 2:30, and discover that the Sox started at noon.
by homesickalien on Sep 1, 2009 1:01 PM CDT up reply actions
How ever more appropriate is tsk's parody now?
And we’ll be singing,
“Bye-bye, Count, Thome, and Dye.”
See you later alligator,
We’ll call up young and cheap guys.
Sign scrap heap fodder Kenny pulls out his backside
Saying, “this’ll be the team that gets pie.”
“this’ll be the team that gets pie.”
Today was a nice day to be out for a walk, look through the window of a restaurant at 2:30, and discover that the Sox started at noon.
He. Is. Nostradamous.
BURN HIM! HE’S A WITCH!
We’re a pack of a-holes. And my tradition of contributing absolutely nothing to this site... continues.
Let's see if he floats!!!!
Today was a nice day to be out for a walk, look through the window of a restaurant at 2:30, and discover that the Sox started at noon.
by homesickalien on Sep 1, 2009 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions
she turned me into a newt!
On that fly to right-center
I kinda expected JD to plow into Rios with an ATV.
EVERYBODY PICK US FOR 3RD OR 4TH SO I DINK WE DOIN POOTY GOO
Sox Machine
by Sox Machine on Aug 17, 2009 7:35 PM PDT reply recommended Unrec 3
I need to ask him a few stock pick questions....where is he????
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
by BobbySouthSide on Sep 1, 2009 1:09 PM CDT up reply actions
if jermaine were moved as well yesterday, i'd already be on the road to vegas
These events have me frightened and on the verge of evacuating my bowels.
(sniff, sniff)
"ALL THESE WORLDS/ ARE YOURS EXCEPT/ EUROPA/ ATTEMPT NO
LANDING THERE/ USE THEM TOGETHER/ USE THEM IN PEACE"
Does this make sense?
Why exercise a $10M Option (that’s a lot of moolah!) on a guy fighting for Type B status?? Did I miss something??
Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports likes the stability Garland provides the Dodgers, and wonders if they should exercise his $10MM option for 2010. The Rockies and Rangers both had interest in Garland, who turns 30 this month. His contract states that he cannot be offered arbitration if he’s a Type A free agent, but that’s irrelevant since Garland is currently battling just for Type B status.
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
Rosenthal is one of the most respected, most intelligent, most incredibly awesome,
Most tall people in “the business.” Therefore he’s Joe Morgan.
well, i won't comment on the value of garland.
but it’s not like the elias rankings do that good of a job of assigning value to players. for example, would you pay jake peavy $10M/year? he’d be a type B, as well. the better argument is simply “why would you pay a below average pitcher $10M?”
I would take the ranking into account when a player has been healthy the past two years
and still struggles to reach a Type B FA.
He is absolutely not worth $10M next year in the market.
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
by BobbySouthSide on Sep 1, 2009 1:38 PM CDT up reply actions
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