AL Central Position Player Projected WAR
Glorious tables to follow. All the data is from fangraphs' two WAR projections, CHONE and the fans. Points of note:
1)There were a few very young/obscure players whom the fans didn't have at least 10 votes on, in which case CHONE was used.
2)Each lineup projected by the fans has on average 15% more wins than CHONE projects.
The fans very consistently seem to provide optimistic projections of both playing time and rate stats for expected starters. I think these can be thought of best as perfect world projections, where the player neither slumps nor gets injured. CHONE is instead a weighted average, with regression built in for both such phenomena. The difference between the two is possibly a useful measure of upside.
For reference: Average for American League lineups is about 16 WAR. For a starting staff, it's 13 and for a bullpen, it's 4 WAR. A team with a replacement level lineup, staff and bullpen would win 48 games. 16 + 13 + 4 + 48 = 81 wins, an average team.
Total
| Team | CHONE | Fans |
|---|---|---|
| Twins | 21 | 24 |
| White Sox | 17 | 20 |
| Tigers | 15 | 17 |
| Indians | 19 | 24 |
| Royals | 11 | 15 |
| Average | 17 | 20 |
White Sox
| Position | Name | CHONE | Fans |
|---|---|---|---|
| C | Pierzynski | 1.7 | 2.1 |
| 1B | Konerko | 2.2 | 2.1 |
| 2B | Beckham | 3.6 | 4.2 |
| 3B | Teahen | 1.4 | 1 |
| SS | Ramirez | 2.4 | 3.2 |
| LF | Pierre | 1.1 | 1.4 |
| CF | Rios | 1.7 | 3.2 |
| RF | Quentin | 2.5 | 3 |
| DH | Kotsay/Jones | 0 | 0 |
| 16.6 | 20.2 |
Beckham has to hit something like .280/.350/.450 to manage that mark, but it's hard to see him missing that. Total Zone hates Alex Rios and all the other metrics disagree with TZ, so assume Rios will be in the 2-2.5 range. Also, I think The Versatility Show could be worth 5-10 runs if Ozzie played his cards right. So that's what'll be in play if he gets his wish. Unless Vizquel gets significant PT there. Which should be cause for firing, since it's totally indefensible. It's more like a 3 win gap between the Sox and Twins' lineups.
Twins
| Position | Name | CHONE | Fans |
|---|---|---|---|
| C | Mauer | 7.2 | 7.3 |
| 1B | Morneau | 2.7 | 3.9 |
| 2B | Punto | 0.7 | 1.6 |
| 3B | Harris | 0 | 0 |
| SS | Hardy | 2.5 | 3.4 |
| LF | Young | 1.1 | 0 |
| CF | Span | 3.3 | 4.1 |
| RF | Cuddyer | 1.8 | 1.9 |
| DH | Kubel | 1.2 | 2.1 |
| 20.5 | 24.3 |
The Hardy acquisition was a real difference maker. Hardy has been worth 11 runs more than the average shortstop per 150 games played defensively over his career. When he hits for league average, he's worth nearly 4 wins. This makes up nicely for OC's absence, though it also means Delmon Young will play full time. The fans don't see that one working out. Meanwhile, the Twins still have room for upgrades. Because of Punto's flexibility, they can probably find someone decent and cheap out there to play either second or third who won't suck quite as much as Brendan Harris.
Tigers
| Position | Name | CHONE | Fans |
|---|---|---|---|
| C | Laird | 2 | 1.5 |
| 1B | Cabrera | 4.5 | 5.3 |
| 2B | Sizemore | 1.2 | 1.2 |
| 3B | Inge | 1.6 | 2.7 |
| SS | Everett | 1.2 | 0.5 |
| LF | Raburn | 1.6 | 1.8 |
| CF | Jackson | 0.6 | 0.6 |
| RF | Ordonez | 2.1 | 2.3 |
| DH | Guillen | 0.9 | 1.0 |
| 15.7 | 16.9 |
A bunch of players at or below average and Miguel Cabrera. Austin Jackson, Ryan Raburn, Scott Sizemore and Alex Avila represent the upside on this squad, which is to say there probably isn't that much.
Indians
| Position | Name | CHONE | Fans |
|---|---|---|---|
| C | Marson | 1.2 | 1.2 |
| 1B | LaPorta | 1.3 | 2.1 |
| 2B | Valbuena | 1.5 | 1.5 |
| 3B | Peralta | 2.2 | 2.3 |
| SS | Cabrera | 2.8 | 3.8 |
| LF | Brantley | 1 | 0.8 |
| CF | Sizemore | 5 | 5.9 |
| RF | Choo | 3.1 | 4.6 |
| DH | Hafner | 1.2 | 1.8 |
| 19.3 | 24 |
Cabrera, Sizemore, and Choo are a nice little core that expects to add Carlos Santana at some point this season, with only Hafner representing anything near old on the team. The Indians are a year away or more, depending on how the pitching shapes up, but they could surprise if they mature early. Supposedly, there's plenty of talent, including pitching in the pipeline like Nick Hagadone and Alex White. Mark Shapiro isn't expecting the Indians to stay down for long, we probably shouldn't either.
Royals
| Position | Name | CHONE | Fans |
|---|---|---|---|
| C | Kendall | 0.6 | 1 |
| 1B | Butler | 2.2 | 3.5 |
| 2B | Callaspo | 1.7 | 2.9 |
| 3B | Gordon | 2.6 | 4 |
| SS | Betancourt | 0.3 | -1 |
| LF | DeJesus | 2.5 | 3.7 |
| CF | Maier | 1.4 | 1 |
| RF | Guillen | 0 | -0.7 |
| DH | Kaaihue/Fields | 0 | 1 |
| 11.3 | 15.4 |
I guess this isn't current, since the Royals just signed Scott Podsednik to play somewhere for this team, but not to replace the actual problem, Jose Guillen's Terrible Contract. $12 million dollars, 0 wins. If the Royals got market rate production from that money this season, they'd win 80+ games.
0 recs |
301 comments
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Comments
how much do we make up in the -4 WAR with our pitching staff?
wrapped and sealed with masking tape moistened with sweat experience existence of ignorance
by onlysoxfaninboston on Jan 11, 2010 7:29 AM CST reply actions
based on previous conversation in other threads
perhaps break even, or just under, again highlighting the need for another hitter in the line-up (e.g., Thome at DH)
wrapped and sealed with masking tape moistened with sweat experience existence of ignorance
by onlysoxfaninboston on Jan 11, 2010 9:02 AM CST up reply actions
This just shows you how pathetic our OF is.
Then you throw in Q! getting injured and the fun really gets started….
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
according to this it looks like the Indians have the top outfield.
Charles Woodson for NFL Defensive MVP.
The Twins OF is easily better.
Pierre is not good. It’s ridiculous that the Sox are willing to pay him $8.5M for 2 years (but won’t shell out $3M for 1 year of Huff at DH).
Rios is not good. He had an awful year last year and Walker is not going to fix him. He’s obviously been decent in the past and isn’t old, but he’s been declining for at least 2 years.
Q is not good when not healthy. Which is often.
Young-Span-Cuddyer is better matched up position by position.
by hitlesswonder on Jan 11, 2010 9:20 AM CST up reply actions
As a caveat
I was happy they got Rios at the time and I don’t think he’ll be a complete cypher like Pierre. I think he’ll hit better than last year, but I doubt the Sox can get him back to over an .800 OPS. Span has simply become a very good player, even though I strongly doubted that would happen based on his minor league numbers. So I have to give MN the edge in CF. And based on health, the edge in RF as well.
by hitlesswonder on Jan 11, 2010 9:28 AM CST up reply actions
That's a reasonable assessment
Clearly, both Rios and Q have demonstrated they can perform at a very high level. The question is how likely is it that they’ll do so in 2010?
by hitlesswonder on Jan 11, 2010 9:43 AM CST up reply actions
In fact, I would not be shocked if it turns out to be the strength of our club....
including the starting pitching.
That said, and, I feel like rambling today...
Danks and Floyd are the keys in our pitching, as many of you would probably agree. If they take another half-a-step up, look out.
So let me get this straight
According to you worst scenario on everything?
Shelling out 3 million for Huff has nothing to do with Pierre
It amazes me when people say he has declined 2 straight years. (They use to say 3.)His OPS in 08 was .798 compared to .852. That’s not exactly outside of a reasonable confidence interval. Rios was worth 3-5 wins for the prior three years. He had a bad year. It happens.
And your use of not good is way overused.
"Oh well back to work"
by Tdogg on Jan 11, 2010 10:56 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
OK then...
You’re right about Rios — his 2nd half of 2008 was actually quite good so I’m wrong about the 2 year decline thing.
But I’m not picking a worst-case scenario for everything — as I said, I expect Rios to be better than last year. So clearly that’s not the worst-case.
Also allocating money to pay Pierre absolutely impacts what options are available for the rest of the roster. I used Huff an an example because I would consider him a better use of that $$.
As for “not good”, I’ll try for a different rhetorical flourish next time I post. Maybe something Hemingwayesque.
by hitlesswonder on Jan 11, 2010 11:14 AM CST up reply actions
I dunno about Huff
He was bad last year. In his great 2008 he posted an iso 60 points above his career average, 80 points higher then 07 and 100 points higher then 09. His HR/FL% was in line with his peak (TB) years, but 07 and 09 were significant drops from 14 to 9/7 %. 08 was his only year where he hit more fly balls then ground balls.
For huff to be good, he needs to hit a lot more fly balls then he did last year, and he needs them to jump out of the park. This has a low chance of occuring. And since he can’t play defense, I’d say spending anything on him is a bad idea.
I understand. Im not locking you into Huff
My point was Huff, Thome, whoever. KW’s comments indicate at this point its a matter of choice than finances. Im not saying its a good idea (i hate it). Im just saying bringing Pierre didnt shut down talk of the extra bat. I think Dante said it best. It’s a volatile OF, but 8+ WAR from it wouldnt surprise me.
"Oh well back to work"
the most you're getting out of pierre
is 1.5, so that’s 6.5 wins between Rios and Quentin. i guess that could happen. i’d be surprised, since it’d mean they were both playing well at the same time for an extended stretch.
"It's good to let your hair lie fallow every so often."
maybe the health is a stretch for Q
but I don’t think its a stretch that they can play well at the same time. Love affair aside, I expect a 4 WAR season from Carlos next year. In Herm I trust.
"Oh well back to work"
Ha
Mauer’s not even worth half our lineup, what a loser.
The world needs the Jedi now more than ever
So...what...is Thome coming back?
I guess I’d take him vs. what there is now.
Prediction:
Friday, Jan 22, 2:00 PM: Sox announce they have resigned DH Jim Thome to a one year deal for the 2010 season.
I'm starting to believe they really might go with Jones/Kotsay/Vizquel(!?) for the first half
I don’t get how anyone can look at last season’s offense and think they way to fix things is to play guys at DH who can’t hit but have a good a glove, but there it is.
I still have some hope they’ll sign someone, because playing good fielders at DH is possibly the stupidest roster construction decision I have ever heard of. Ever.
by hitlesswonder on Jan 11, 2010 10:03 AM CST up reply actions
Ozzie Vizquel Smith Guillen has a very impressive OPS+ sir
The world needs the Jedi now more than ever
No..kotsay and jones should be bench players
Jones I could see giving a shot in a platoon with a real hitter (like Thome), but that’s still a big concession to make. It’d be better if he just subbed for Q when he gets hurt.
But the idea that Kotsay should get any significant number of at-bats is ridiculous. He hit OK for his short stretch with the Sox last season, and that apparently makes people feel he’s a legit candidate to play a lot. He’s not. The reality is that overe the last 3 years he has a .687 OPS and atrocious .315 OBP.
by hitlesswonder on Jan 11, 2010 10:53 AM CST up reply actions
For some weird reason, though....
I kinda wanna see Jones get a shot….like Dh vs. lefties and a bit more than purely spot play in the outfield. With injuries and stuff, he’ll likely get it, at least initially.
.

"I don’t know how you guys measure worth…but I do know you idiots need a graph to show you that Josh Fields sucks…"
by Where Triples Go to Die on Jan 11, 2010 11:53 AM CST up reply actions
i don't know if it would ever get me to my destination
but i suddenly want a Bacon Positioning System receiver.
These events have me frightened and on the verge of evacuating my bowels.
by thatshortkid on Jan 11, 2010 11:55 AM CST up reply actions
larry has little time to stop and eat.
"I don’t know how you guys measure worth…but I do know you idiots need a graph to show you that Josh Fields sucks…"
by Where Triples Go to Die on Jan 11, 2010 11:57 AM CST up reply actions
I want to see him hit the cover off the fucking ball and play an adequate OF
FUCK EVYTHING BACON RULZ WEER GONNA WIN TEH CHAMPSHIOP
...colintj, Nov8, 2009
Yep. I totally want to see Jones get shot, too.
… oh, what?
Nevermind.
by ReservoirDog on Jan 12, 2010 10:02 PM CST up reply actions
$1.5 million for Kotsay -- incredible. KW better not even hint about a lack of funds this year as he's squandered a whole lot of it this winter
Add that to the senseless Linebrink contract and you have seemingly too many guys not providing surplus value.
Not so bad
I don’t think the Sox have made too many poor contract decisions. Look at every team and I’m sure you’ll find some doosies for bad contracts somewhere. Linebrink’s is a very bad one, but at least it’s almost over. Plus, he may come out and have a year like his 1st half of ’09.
I don't disagree
I’m just a little perturbed by how the Sox spent their available funds this winter. They apparently had a decent chunk of change to use (approx. $10 million) — I think I would have rather had them go and get a legit DH and a cheap second-baseman (keeping Beckham at third) for the same amount of money.
It’s not like the players the Sox acquired are bad — just a whole lot of mediocrity.
I think I posted a right rail article about this very point.
Something about “low-risk/low-reward shit fucks”.
"I don’t know how you guys measure worth…but I do know you idiots need a graph to show you that Josh Fields sucks…"
by Where Triples Go to Die on Jan 11, 2010 7:42 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
I agree with your use of money complaint
But Kenny has had past success with mediocre players outperforming their contracts and I think he’ll continue with this. I’m really hoping his faith in Teahan pays off.
I’ll treat him like I treat movies where I have low expectations. It could blow me away unexpectedly, or if it sucked, I’m not too disappointed. It’s when I go to see Terminator Salvation and walk away cursing McG that I get upset.
I'd be satisfied with it, you can feel confident Thome contributes 1-1.5 wins assuming he continues to decline with age.
And if he can be had for cheaper compared to someone like Delgado, all the better.
Taj Gibson is the face of Bulls basketball!
by Trey23 on Jan 5, 2010 6:31 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
by Ozzie Montana on Jan 11, 2010 10:35 AM CST up reply actions
I would rather have a rotating dh than thome or delgado.
"I don’t know how you guys measure worth…but I do know you idiots need a graph to show you that Josh Fields sucks…"
by Where Triples Go to Die on Jan 11, 2010 7:43 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
this headline is fantastic
“Japanese Born MLB Pitchers: Can you trust them?”
http://www.pinstripealley.com/2010/1/11/1244592/japanese-born-mlb-pitchers-can-you
Irabu signed, sailors died
"It's good to let your hair lie fallow every so often."
by colintj on Jan 11, 2010 10:50 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
cue up the WWII propoganda please
wrapped and sealed with masking tape moistened with sweat experience existence of ignorance
by onlysoxfaninboston on Jan 11, 2010 10:51 AM CST up reply actions
holy shit, that is hysterical and scary
wrapped and sealed with masking tape moistened with sweat experience existence of ignorance
by onlysoxfaninboston on Jan 11, 2010 10:54 AM CST up reply actions
haha, yes
wrapped and sealed with masking tape moistened with sweat experience existence of ignorance
by onlysoxfaninboston on Jan 11, 2010 11:12 AM CST up reply actions
Hard to give the Red Sox too much credit.
They signed a $100M pitcher sight unseen, and brought in Okajima as a Spring Training caddy to help Dice-K adjust.
They got lucky that Okajima figured out that his change up is more effective using MLB balls than it had been using the ones from the Japanese league.
lucky? counting on the craft and guile of a japanese pitcher doesn’t strike me as lucky.
OT: i believe one of the rats from the sinking ship is your problem now, seattle. ha!
These events have me frightened and on the verge of evacuating my bowels.
rats from the sinking ship?
I do not understand, but I hope it means that USC football will suck for the next 10 years.
FUCK EVYTHING BACON RULZ WEER GONNA WIN TEH CHAMPSHIOP
...colintj, Nov8, 2009
I believe tsk is referring to the NCAA shitstorm that is going to rain on USC.
Carroll jumps out before he gets tarnished with any sanctions.
Taj Gibson is the face of Bulls basketball!
by Trey23 on Jan 5, 2010 6:31 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
by Ozzie Montana on Jan 11, 2010 12:25 PM CST up reply actions
it is going to rain, and it is going to be glorious.
These events have me frightened and on the verge of evacuating my bowels.
by thatshortkid on Jan 11, 2010 12:39 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I thought USC was powered by Pete Carroll's smile.
EVERYBODY PICK US FOR 3RD OR 4TH SO I DINK WE DOIN POOTY GOO
Sox Machine
by Sox Machine on Jan 11, 2010 12:41 PM CST up reply actions
I never know how to feel about NCAA sanctions
Just seem very backwards to me, I feel like it’s usually players who weren’t even there when it happened and fans that weren’t involved, that get punished.
The coach leaves for a new job, the players who got money, or cheated in class or whatever have already gone on to the NBA or NFL, or got their degree and had their education paid for.
I mean who the hell cares about wins being taken away? The joy is from experiencing the victories. Being you told you didn’t win two years later doesn’t make it true. You still won the game, you still got the celebration and all that comes with it.. who cares what a historical record might say? The people who lost years ago don’t feel any better.
If someone told me the White Sox actually won the world series in 2008 b/c the other teams in the playoffs cheated that year, I wouldn’t feel better. I wouldn’t go out and celebrate it. I’d just be more pissed that they got screwed and didn’t get to win it fairly then.
by Grinder in Training on Jan 11, 2010 1:00 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
The Sox are DOOMED!!! I tells ya, DOOMED!!!
At least they won’t be domed this year in shitasota (I learned that one in college).
Anyways, my two cents is they should bring back Thomer to close the gap with the Twinks, Indians.
Here’s my reasoning:
I understand the want of a DH that can play the field, but in order to fill that bill, you essentially need to pay for two players at the same position. Ideally, this would be done with outfielders that can hit the cover off the ball and are at least adequate in the field (ie Q!) so that you can rotate them. I don’t see the Sox picking up another Q! type player on the cheap before the season starts. If other options haven’t presented themselves by the time pitchers and catchers report, FUCKING SIGN THOMER!
FUCK EVYTHING BACON RULZ WEER GONNA WIN TEH CHAMPSHIOP
...colintj, Nov8, 2009
there's no reason at all
Andruw Jones gets a roster spot, but not Jim friggin Thome.
"It's good to let your hair lie fallow every so often."
You are thinking rationally.
This is where KW needs to overrule Ozzie and help him, help himself.
"Oh well back to work"
GD China
I really wanted to see in which direction the now-deleted fanpost was going to go.
EVERYBODY PICK US FOR 3RD OR 4TH SO I DINK WE DOIN POOTY GOO
Sox Machine
Very disappointed.
I didn’t see a single picture posted of a player’s wife in shorts either, so weak.
by Grinder in Training on Jan 11, 2010 1:02 PM CST up reply actions
WHO DELETED SAID FANSHOT???
SHOW yourself now! Damn, caps are much harder to pull off on an iPhone.
"I don’t know how you guys measure worth…but I do know you idiots need a graph to show you that Josh Fields sucks…"
by Where Triples Go to Die on Jan 11, 2010 8:24 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
the chance you die triples from age 35 to 50?
"It's good to let your hair lie fallow every so often."
Yep.
The 40’s are a mother for men. Huge spike in death rate which moderates in your 50’s.
"don tink about new jork. jus come in ready to wing de gay."
heh
I am not your lady... I am not any kind of a lady! ~ Aldonza
by homesickalien on Jan 11, 2010 2:41 PM CST up reply actions
We trade Beckham to St. Louis for Mark McGuire
and the division is ours
Please find Jay Cutler some help...
McGuire used steroids?
Shocked! Shocked, I say!
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2010/01/11/sports/AP-BBO-Steroids-McGwire.html?_r=1&emc=eta1
“Oh, steroids. Oh yeah, okay. See, I misheard you. Thought you said something totally different. Oh yeah, I did those.”
signature
by billyok on Jan 11, 2010 2:26 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
"Do you want to know the terrifying truth? Or do you want to see me sock a few dingers!"

These events have me frightened and on the verge of evacuating my bowels.
by thatshortkid on Jan 11, 2010 3:59 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
Don Giovanni?
Who’s that dude?
God I hope you people get that reference.
White Sox fan; Jeppson's Malort man
by KarkoviceIsHawt on Jan 12, 2010 8:06 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
NOW HE'S GOT THE CHAINSAW
AND HE’S USING IT ON ME!
EVERYBODY PICK US FOR 3RD OR 4TH SO I DINK WE DOIN POOTY GOO
Sox Machine
by Sox Machine on Jan 12, 2010 10:53 AM CST up reply actions
Allright, you guys go back to doing something blatantly homo-erotic.
I could seriously spend hours thinking about quotes from that finest of all films.
White Sox fan; Jeppson's Malort man
by KarkoviceIsHawt on Jan 12, 2010 11:00 AM CST up reply actions
"I got this roommate, old Jack....he's a bit of an odd duck....sometimes I catch him staring at me..."
That was one of the funniest things Farley ever did. If only someone told him he didn’t have to scream to be funny….
"So he's dead. That's it! Bye!"
Best closing line I’ve ever heard.
White Sox fan; Jeppson's Malort man
by KarkoviceIsHawt on Jan 12, 2010 12:12 PM CST up reply actions
Palin joins Fox News today as well.
Not sure which is more shocking: Palin at Fox or McGwire on steroids.
Not that I watch it much (my wife does in the AM)
but I’ll tune in to see how she looks, then tune out as soon as she opens her mouth.
"don tink about new jork. jus come in ready to wing de gay."
you really think palin is good looking?
wrapped and sealed with masking tape moistened with sweat experience existence of ignorance
by onlysoxfaninboston on Jan 11, 2010 2:57 PM CST up reply actions
She's no Ann Coulter, but few women can reach that level of sexy.
Taj Gibson is the face of Bulls basketball!
by Trey23 on Jan 5, 2010 6:31 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
by Ozzie Montana on Jan 11, 2010 2:59 PM CST up reply actions
Coulter is a real fugly
wrapped and sealed with masking tape moistened with sweat experience existence of ignorance
by onlysoxfaninboston on Jan 11, 2010 3:28 PM CST up reply actions
an early favorite in this year's Preakness, however.
These events have me frightened and on the verge of evacuating my bowels.
by thatshortkid on Jan 11, 2010 5:39 PM CST up reply actions
She's 8 years younger than me.
My wife is 6 years younger. Yeah, she looks good for her age. You guys go nail the 20 year olds.
"don tink about new jork. jus come in ready to wing de gay."
of course, i'll see how i like 'em when i'm an OPOS :)
wrapped and sealed with masking tape moistened with sweat experience existence of ignorance
by onlysoxfaninboston on Jan 11, 2010 3:25 PM CST up reply actions
ah, so the MS certs are moving right along then.
These events have me frightened and on the verge of evacuating my bowels.
by thatshortkid on Jan 11, 2010 3:38 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
bwah
ha
ha
HA
I am not your lady... I am not any kind of a lady! ~ Aldonza
by homesickalien on Jan 11, 2010 3:47 PM CST up reply actions
the problem with palin is getting her to shut the fuck up beforehand.
These events have me frightened and on the verge of evacuating my bowels.
by thatshortkid on Jan 11, 2010 3:43 PM CST up reply actions
Not if you have the Ball Gag placed correctly.
"The Heir of Finality"
by DrEmilioLizardo on Jan 12, 2010 1:16 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
She is a GILF!!!
"I don’t know how you guys measure worth…but I do know you idiots need a graph to show you that Josh Fields sucks…"
by Where Triples Go to Die on Jan 11, 2010 8:27 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Only time I watch fox news is when my mans n dem bill o'reily
Takes me into the no spin zone.
"I don’t know how you guys measure worth…but I do know you idiots need a graph to show you that Josh Fields sucks…"
by Where Triples Go to Die on Jan 11, 2010 7:54 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
the fox morning show wench truly upsets me.
the guys are obviously douchebags, but that bitch drives me to violence.
McGwire admitting steroids..
I think everyone knew Palin was going there, but was just a matter of time. I think a lot of people assumed McGwire would just play dumb forever. Guess he realized everyone knew he used them anyways, and the guys who have admitted it, have been treated a lot better by the media and fans. Good PR move for him.
by Grinder in Training on Jan 11, 2010 3:12 PM CST up reply actions
Is it good PR for him after 3 rounds of HOF ballots?
Stinks of desperation…he had his chance. Whatever though, I don’t think he HOF worthy independent of steroids. Bonds is.
wrapped and sealed with masking tape moistened with sweat experience existence of ignorance
by onlysoxfaninboston on Jan 11, 2010 3:27 PM CST up reply actions
The timing is interesting,
though he is going to work for an MLB team. Someone must’ve told him to fess up sooner than later and not be a distraction to the team in ST.
"don tink about new jork. jus come in ready to wing de gay."
That's exactly why he did it
No matter. I’m glad he actually did admit it though. I mean a REAL admission. I like him better for it.
"Oh well back to work"
oh, totally forgot, employment trumps HOF, but the timing was interesting which was why i brought it up
wrapped and sealed with masking tape moistened with sweat experience existence of ignorance
by onlysoxfaninboston on Jan 11, 2010 3:38 PM CST up reply actions
I agree with this..
I’m sure someone in St. Louis or MLB explained to him that it would come out if he was back in baseball. Regardless, we all knew he took them anyways, so no real harm in admitting it. Americans like a comeback story, especially about someone who admits to what they did wrong.
On his own terms, he’s much better off, now even if he someone (like BM below) says he’s lying about using them due to injuries or when he used them, I doubt anyone will care enough to look into it or call him out on it. He can go on his way and enjoy his new job, with a lot less trouble from media and fans.
by Grinder in Training on Jan 11, 2010 3:48 PM CST up reply actions
It's completely insulting when a scoundrel comes clean years later and admits something we all already knew
If there was any chance at all for him to make it in, this flattened it
signature
I disagree
Plenty of knuckleheads never come clean or worse continue to openly lie. Mac didn’t really do that. He kept quiet, which sealed his fate but its not the same thing.
"Oh well back to work"
he's a lying, cheating bastard.
During the mid-’90s, I went on the DL seven times and missed 228 games over five years…..It was definitely a miserable bunch of years and I told myself that steroids could help me recover faster.
really? he only did steroids to recover from injuries? lame.
the suck is not just a river in ireland.
i thought he did steroids for the sex drive
wrapped and sealed with masking tape moistened with sweat experience existence of ignorance
by onlysoxfaninboston on Jan 11, 2010 3:56 PM CST up reply actions
IAWTC.
And the tone. Pete Rose is in the same category. And I loved Rose as a ballplayer.
"don tink about new jork. jus come in ready to wing de gay."
joe morgan was my favorite player.
he is not, however, my favorite announcer.
the suck is not just a river in ireland.
well, he also said
I remember trying steroids very briefly in the 1989/1990 off season
not that there’s anything he can say that would have me believe he is telling the truth. my point was more just that i feel that he is trying to justify what he did and not particularly interested in being truthful.
the suck is not just a river in ireland.
He only took them in the mid-1990's.
Oh, occasionally the early 90’s and late 80’s, but usually the mid-90’s – or the late 90’s. Just the early 90’s, mid-90’s and late 80’s. Occasionally, late 90’s, early mid-90’s, or perhaps the late-mid-90’s. Oh, and sometimes the early-mid-late-early 90’s.
But never at dusk!
by The Actual El Guapo on Jan 11, 2010 5:22 PM CST up reply actions
Maybe he was talking about the temperature. ;-)
Forgive me for liking our World Series MVP
I forgot his VORPWAROPS is low and therefore he is an asshole.
-billyok
its called roid cycles he was using his whole career,
im sure you know this though.
Packers done...now 3 months of sports hell.
Gone With the Wind II
Sweet movie, though the video game was better
signature
by billyok on Jan 11, 2010 9:01 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Forget McGwire, it was so much better hearing KenWo's mancrush LaRussa be in complete denial about his buddy.
“Mark wishes he played in a different era.”
Taj Gibson is the face of Bulls basketball!
by Trey23 on Jan 5, 2010 6:31 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Who gives a crapola about McGwire?
His single season record didn’t last very long and I am convinced that 60% of these guys are still taking them in some form or another. He was the 2nd best at weight lifting, roiding, and hitting a moving round ball out of the ballpark during a single season. Good for Mark for finally owning up. My opinion has not changed on him, he is still a jackass.
"I don’t know how you guys measure worth…but I do know you idiots need a graph to show you that Josh Fields sucks…"
by Where Triples Go to Die on Jan 11, 2010 8:03 PM CST via mobile reply actions
This McGwire coming clean has actually pissed me off more
He admitted that he took steroids, and even admitted that he took them more than once, but for a whole decade (unlike every other loser that has had to come to terms with admitting it).
BUT, he still isn’t admitting that the roids and HGH made him a better ballplayer. Made him a stronger ballplayer, made him hit the ball farther or gave him a quicker swing. All he is saying is he used them due to injuries to heal faster. That is it. Costas, even on that Selig run MLB network, tried to get him to admit any of that and he denied it all. Said he still would have hit 600 HRs in his career and 70 HRs during a season without the PEDs. Horsecrap!
This apology stinks of a LaRussa/Selig setup to get good PR for them both and also get McGwire a clean slate. It is all BS and just makes everyone look even worse.
Plus the “mistake” argument is really pissing me off. A mistake is me forgetting to lock the car or forgetting my gloves. Taking roids and HGH for a decade isn’t a “mistake”, you cheating, lying, M-fer.
How does this douche get to become a COACH on a MLB club by admitting that he cheated for a decade, used illegal drugs and refused to answer directly these questions when asked by congress??
I haven’t heard one owner ever come out against PEDs. Have any of you? How about Selig, that gutless, owner controlled f*ck….always the same damn, “disappointed” line. Also, Mike Schmidt can shut the f’ up now as well.
Going to bed, pissed that this McGwire hack is back in baseball…..LaRussa, any remaining credibility he had is out the window. Peace out Daley clout.
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
by BobbySouthSide on Jan 11, 2010 10:43 PM CST reply actions
from a Ken Tremendous tweet, citing a 2006 interview
moneyquote:
“I’ve watched him for years and years and years work out and take care of himself, and if any of us do that, we get bigger and stronger,” La Russa said.
Has LaRussa addressed his claim now that he never knew about Mac’s roid use?
His name is Rios and he dances on the sand
you'll never get anything out of larussa.
now he’s saying mcgwire should be commended for speaking out.
the suck is not just a river in ireland.
yeah, Selig said the same.
what a couple of class A yahoos!
Packers done...now 3 months of sports hell.
Do you honestly believe that you could have resisted the temptation if you were McGwire?
A whole lot of self-righteousness going on in this here thread. Maybe all of you are better men than I, but I bet I would have used them in his shoes. And I sure as hell would not admit it to congress without immunity. And I probably would wait until now to admit it.
Related note: where’s the fury over AJ’s Lasik surgery?
White Sox fan; Jeppson's Malort man
by KarkoviceIsHawt on Jan 12, 2010 8:01 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
yes. and a whole bunch of players apparently as well. (aj's lasik surgery is not related to this).
the suck is not just a river in ireland.
Is that surgery not 'performance enhancing'?
Sorry if I’m bringing up a worn-out topic that people don’t care to discuss. I just always found it weird that one form of non-natural performance-enhancing technology is so morally wrong while another is totally acceptable.
On the other hand, I am pissed at how the whole era diminishes the accomplishments of Thomas, Thome and General Soreness.
White Sox fan; Jeppson's Malort man
by KarkoviceIsHawt on Jan 12, 2010 10:48 AM CST up reply actions
if the user himself thinks its wrong (i.e. hides it, lies about it)
then its wrong.
His name is Rios and he dances on the sand
Then what of unjust laws?
You’re assuming that the rule of law in this case is correct on some abstract level. The user may know they are breaking a rule, but they may believe the rule to be unjust. In that case, the user should follow their internal ethical choice to break the rule and avoid persecution by that rule.
ie. hide their infraction and lie about.
but to draw a distinction between lasik surgery and steroids?
Is that not an appropriate test?
His name is Rios and he dances on the sand
both are essentially using medicine or medical technology to strengthen/improve/whatever a person's abilities.
you can distinguish it if you like but it’s not comparing apples and desk chairs. we’ve decided to draw a line – i’d say an arbitrary one (to whatever degree you like) – at certain types of drugs. sure, there are reasons for it. let me know how good you think those reasons are.
What are those reasons?
Not to challenge you or suggest that you’re defending them. But I can’t recall any (semi-)coherent justification for them at all. So that’s an open question for anyone…
White Sox fan; Jeppson's Malort man
by KarkoviceIsHawt on Jan 12, 2010 12:05 PM CST up reply actions
I can see that, I guess.
White Sox fan; Jeppson's Malort man
by KarkoviceIsHawt on Jan 12, 2010 4:36 PM CST up reply actions
So why are they illegal?
Lasik isn’t. Roids affect different people different ways. Ever seen Roid Rage for real? I have – with 18 year-old kids attacking ther Moms with knives after injecting. We can go down the road that all drugs should be legal and taxed (not sure I disagree with “caveat emptor”) but that is not the way it currently is.
Wrigley Field is a postage stamp shithole. It reeks of piss worse than R. Kelly’s underage girlfriend. It’s falling apart faster than Amy Winehouse.
Their fans are denial-addled jagoffs of lowest stripe.
they are legal with a doctor's prescription, right? it's getting them and self-medicating that's the illegal part?
aren’t they all controlled substances?
These events have me frightened and on the verge of evacuating my bowels.
by thatshortkid on Jan 12, 2010 5:47 PM CST up reply actions
Some/most fall under that category
White Sox fan; Jeppson's Malort man
by KarkoviceIsHawt on Jan 13, 2010 3:26 PM CST up reply actions
So MLB has the boilerplate
and says caveat emptor to the players. I didn’t mind that era.
"It's good to let your hair lie fallow every so often."
Me, neither.
Wrigley Field is a postage stamp shithole. It reeks of piss worse than R. Kelly’s underage girlfriend. It’s falling apart faster than Amy Winehouse.
Their fans are denial-addled jagoffs of lowest stripe.
Illegal drugs are quite profitable for WASP otherwise legitimate businessmen
No reason to lower the profit margins by making them legal. Relatively cheap labor as well.
The world needs the Jedi now more than ever
If legality is the true issue here, then I guess that's fine.
But is the legal status of a substance what’s at issue here? I get the impression that people are pissed about cheating, not about breaking the law?
I’m not saying that steroids are okay or without consequence. But if that’s the root of the problem here, then people shouldn’t be upset about ‘cheating’. They should be upset about making poor health choices.
White Sox fan; Jeppson's Malort man
by KarkoviceIsHawt on Jan 13, 2010 3:25 PM CST up reply actions
i really don't give a fuck if any player that took steroids fell over dead or produce children with two heads.
i do care about the game of baseball and how they cheated that game and their fans. i doubt any of us care what “health choices” they make.
Then you must hate AJ, right?
That was the point of what I was saying. If your argument is that using artificial (the definition of which is an issue itself) performance enhancers, what’s the difference between a laser and a drug?
Is it a difference of degree? Maybe +20/20 Lasik actually has a bigger effect than ‘roids (although I doubt it, I really don’t know if anyone does know that). What then?
White Sox fan; Jeppson's Malort man
by KarkoviceIsHawt on Jan 13, 2010 5:03 PM CST up reply actions
i love aj. love his game.
there’s a huge difference in my mind between playing smart and hard nosed baseball and using illegal performance enhancing drugs. so yes, i guess it is a difference in degree.
i think kark is referring to the lasik surgery
"A brief but trenchant analysis of Scott Podsednik
He’s dogshit."
by NYRoyal on Jan 8, 2010 8:56 AM PST
I was
And why is it stupid? (Again, it’s not just AJ) But the kind of lasik that a lot of hitters are getting is not just to fix eyesight. It extends the abilities of the human body beyond what is considered to be in the normal range.
So where’s the huge distinction between the effects of such a surgery and steroids?
White Sox fan; Jeppson's Malort man
by KarkoviceIsHawt on Jan 13, 2010 11:47 PM CST up reply actions
It won't stop. Take away contact lenses because they fix eyesight
and Tinactin, because that fixes jock itch. When ballplayers are hobbling around with crotchrot, bumping into guys they cant see, then we’ll know they’re totally clean.
That’s why our outfield the last few years is above suspicion.
His name is Rios and he dances on the sand
Reintroduce the Bubonic Plague to balance the playing field
The world needs the Jedi now more than ever
I disagree
Lasik allows a person to see like an average person can see. What are you referring to which extends the abilities of the human body? Performance enhancers give players advantages above and beyond the average ballplayer.
hmmm.
first of all, players often get their vision corrected to better than 20/20. secondly, let’s say a player – let’s call him ‘pick nunto’ – doesn’t have average strength for a ballplayer. so he takes steroids. is he cheating?
the point is, whether it’s lasik or steroids, you’re enhancing someone beyond what their “natural” abilities are. as nordhagen points out, we permit this all the time, whether it’s contact lenses or something else. we just happen to have said that steroids and such go a step too far. and maybe that’s right. but it’s a step, not a leap.
This Pick Nunto feller sounds like a bit of a douche to me.
I am not your lady... I am not any kind of a lady! ~ Aldonza
by homesickalien on Jan 14, 2010 10:34 AM CST up reply actions
and when mlb decides lasik surgery is banned
all players are free to have it, so it’s still an even playing field. steroids are banned, therefore anyone making the choice to use them must suffer the consequences, whatever they may be.
When did MLB officially ban 'roids?
White Sox fan; Jeppson's Malort man
by KarkoviceIsHawt on Jan 14, 2010 3:01 PM CST up reply actions
consequences
fits of rage
shrunken “member”
acne
I’m sorry, no amount of money is worth risking your manhood over. No wonder they get so angry.
shrinks your nards
not member
White Sox fan; Jeppson's Malort man
by KarkoviceIsHawt on Jan 15, 2010 3:31 PM CST up reply actions
how is lasik different than contact lenses?
certain contact lenses can get you to 20+/20
I wear contacts, and I have a astigmatism that is corrected by contacts. When I play sports, should I need to play without them because it is not natural?
bird law in this country is not ruled by reason
by soxshenanigans on Jan 14, 2010 12:25 PM CST up reply actions
http://www.slate.com/id/2116858/
White Sox fan; Jeppson's Malort man
by KarkoviceIsHawt on Jan 14, 2010 10:45 AM CST up reply actions
Very Catholic.
I disagree with the standard.
Wrigley Field is a postage stamp shithole. It reeks of piss worse than R. Kelly’s underage girlfriend. It’s falling apart faster than Amy Winehouse.
Their fans are denial-addled jagoffs of lowest stripe.
So if McGwire had said that he was roided up in 1998 it wouldn't be cheating?
Obviously it would have still been a scandal, but you think it would have been okay?
White Sox fan; Jeppson's Malort man
by KarkoviceIsHawt on Jan 12, 2010 12:01 PM CST up reply actions
I was using that question as the test to see which side of the arbitrary line a user was on
I missed your point I think. Were you saying that why do we have this arbitrary line, and why is Lasik not “cheating?”
I thought you were stating that McGwire’s defense is that he didnt see the difference between lasik and steroids…
His name is Rios and he dances on the sand
of course we're all better people.
we’re anonymous. on the internet. christ. where do you ever come up with this? i was nominated for the goddamn nobel peace prize this year. bobby was cook county rotary club man of the year for his work with the homeless. buehrleman is actually nancy grace. and WU was recently named husband of the year by redbook.
Damn Redbook. Always emphasizing quantity, not quality.
I am not your lady... I am not any kind of a lady! ~ Aldonza
by homesickalien on Jan 12, 2010 9:30 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Oh man
If I knew Buerhleman was Nancy Grace I wouldn’t have had the audacity to even post here. We’re in the midst of greatness!
White Sox fan; Jeppson's Malort man
by KarkoviceIsHawt on Jan 12, 2010 10:48 AM CST up reply actions
the homeless all need a voice
And I am that voice. I make sure that their vote for Daley and friends of Daley gets counted at a minimum 3 times per election.
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
by BobbySouthSide on Jan 12, 2010 11:40 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
I sit here, arms crossed, sternly waiting for new posts to arrive and judging them with one eyebrow slightly asunder over my brow and my tsk and eyeroll muscles trained to react at a moment's notice, and I will remain in this position from dawn to dusk
Because I am billyok
And I am on…
The Internet
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by billyok on Jan 12, 2010 8:36 AM CST up reply actions 3 recs
EZN is but a letter away from AZN.
EZKN is close enough for a mashed tater to be Ezekial N. He was our prophet while we were lost in 2007.
Shall we head towards IRC like glory, or embrace our holy, and 14th, incarnation of a great prophet?
EZKN 25:17
eyeroll/z-keying with a vengeance!
I am not your lady... I am not any kind of a lady! ~ Aldonza
by homesickalien on Jan 12, 2010 11:48 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
the path of the righteous poster is beset on all sides by the inequities of the assholes and the tyranny of seamhead nerds.
blessed is the key who, in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the noob through the valley of the in-jokes. for he is truly a lurker’s keeper and finder of reply fails. and i will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy new posters. and you will know i left mom’s basement when i lay my vengeance upon you!
These events have me frightened and on the verge of evacuating my bowels.
by thatshortkid on Jan 12, 2010 11:59 AM CST up reply actions 7 recs
man, why you gotta upstage me?
;)
I am not your lady... I am not any kind of a lady! ~ Aldonza
by homesickalien on Jan 12, 2010 12:24 PM CST up reply actions
Yep, no love for the inspiration/set-up that made it happen.
I am not your lady... I am not any kind of a lady! ~ Aldonza
by homesickalien on Jan 12, 2010 3:55 PM CST up reply actions
it's always the oop that makes the highlight reels, never the alley
These events have me frightened and on the verge of evacuating my bowels.
by thatshortkid on Jan 12, 2010 4:20 PM CST up reply actions
Or, apparently, the defensive stops that freed up the greyhounds to run.
Colin, Bok and I will just hang out over here. Cheering you guys on. Wishing you’d play more defense…
by coffeepac on Jan 12, 2010 4:23 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
heh heh heh
I am not your lady... I am not any kind of a lady! ~ Aldonza
by homesickalien on Jan 12, 2010 4:30 PM CST up reply actions
I don't do it for the glory and I'm happy to dish the rock to your HSAs and TSKs and collect the assist
Between that and my affinity to wear short shorts, I am the John Stockton of SSS
signature
You bitch a lot for a guy.
Wrigley Field is a postage stamp shithole. It reeks of piss worse than R. Kelly’s underage girlfriend. It’s falling apart faster than Amy Winehouse.
Their fans are denial-addled jagoffs of lowest stripe.
by winningugly on Jan 12, 2010 7:05 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
You know who else bitched a lot for a guy? George Washington
This would be a cricket board were it not for people like me and George Washington
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by billyok on Jan 12, 2010 8:37 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
i hope the beauty of this
doesn’t get lost under new threads.
"It's good to let your hair lie fallow every so often."
aside from larry's pity recs
green goes to those who deserve it most.
"It's good to let your hair lie fallow every so often."
thank you
I am actually a little bitter to steroid users, especially because of Frank but I all this throwing stones is funny to me. So people hate Mac and he’s a jackass why exactly? So no of you have made mistake or fallen to temptation in things?
"Oh well back to work"
that SOB should really admit
Why he took the peds then! Not beat around the bush.
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
by BobbySouthSide on Jan 12, 2010 11:34 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
He's a jackass for feeling bad.
Taj Gibson is the face of Bulls basketball!
by Trey23 on Jan 5, 2010 6:31 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
by Ozzie Montana on Jan 12, 2010 11:43 AM CST up reply actions
OK, maybe those aren’t apt analogies but here’s something worth thinking about: ballplayers are elite athletes, and one thing almost every elite athlete has in common is the ego-driven belief that they’re different. That they’re special. That everything they accomplish is because of their effort or their determination or that God chose them to do Great Things. To most elite athletes, things like luck, random chance, genetics and accident of birth have nothing to do with it. To admit otherwise is to allow doubt of one’s own abilities to creep in, and with those doubts come the possibility of failure.
We almost always give athletes a free pass on this sort of stuff. We don’t question the wide receiver who thinks God helped him score the touchdown. We don’t challenge the seven foot tall center who thinks his domination of the key is purely a function of his work ethic. We don’t accuse the Fighting Irish of thinking that thoughts of the Gipper, as opposed to a superior game plan, beat Army in 1928. Athletes believe this stuff. They spend a lot of time in denial, actually, and it probably has a lot to do with why they’re so successful.
In light of this I find it totally plausible that Mark McGwire is in denial about what steroids did for him. That he truly thought — or over time convinced himself to believe — that they were only helping him “get back to normal,” as opposed to giving him a chemical advantage. Sure, he’s deluded about this, but it strikes me that he’s no more deluded about it than any other athlete is deluded about his place in the world and how he got there.
Very good.
I am not your lady... I am not any kind of a lady! ~ Aldonza
by homesickalien on Jan 12, 2010 9:39 AM CST up reply actions
Reminded me of Bouton.
So I’ve been tempted sometimes to say into a microphone that I feel I won tonight because I don’t believe in God. I mean, just for the sake of balance, to let the kids know that belief in a deity of ‘Pitching for the Master’ is not one of the criteria for major league success. But I guess I never will.
I am not your lady... I am not any kind of a lady! ~ Aldonza
by homesickalien on Jan 12, 2010 9:42 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Former Rep. Tom Davis, a Virginia Republican, was the chairman of the House Government Reform Committee on March 17, 2005, when McGwire repeatedly testified that he would not “talk about the past” when lawmakers asked him about performance-enhancing drugs.
In a telephone interview Monday with The Associated Press, Davis said he met for three hours with McGwire behind closed doors the day before that hearing. During that private session, according to Davis, McGwire made clear he had used steroids and wanted to say so but was worried he would face legal trouble by admitting it then.
“He would have been a nice head to put on somebody’s mantel. So he basically took the Fifth (Amendment),” Davis said.
“It was very clear to everybody involved that he had taken steroids. Otherwise he would have gotten up there and denied it, but he couldn’t. … He looked ridiculous to most of the public, but he didn’t have many good options. We put him in a pretty tight spot. He was candid and honest in our interrogation of him. He said: ‘Some day, I’ll tell the story.”’
Davis added that he was turned down when he asked then-Attorney General Alberto Gonzalez to grant McGwire immunity in exchange for honest testimony to Congress.
“I look back now, I wish I had got immunity,” McGwire told the AP earlier Monday.
One of his lawyers, Mark Bierbower, said: “He did make an effort to fully disclose the steroid issue and to do so, we sought immunity, but it wasn’t granted. It goes without saying that he walked out of the hearing knowing he had damaged his name, his reputation. But he did it to protect himself and his family, and we’re very pleased for Mark he can say now what he wanted to say then.”
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/baseball/mlb/01/11/mcgwire.congressman.ap/index.html?eref=sihp
if you say you’d have spilled your guts before congress and opened yourself up for criminal prosecution, you’re either lying or dumb.
FTR
My fantasy baseball team was named the Roid Boys in 1999. I didnt care they were on them then, when it was swept under the rug, and I dont care now. Guys like Big Frank who I think stayed clean should be commended, but its not a big deal, and did not ruin the game.
73, 70, 66, 65, 64, 63.
yet 61* was so terrible because there were more games played. anyone who cares about the history of baseball cares about peds.
well thats encouraging.
“He’s kind of a beer league guy who just plays,” said a laughing Bell of Retherford
Packers done...now 3 months of sports hell.
Or Chris Widger...
yikes
Reporter: I was wondering if at any point in my lifetime the Cubs weren't going to be run by a guy who didn't immediately remind me of failure, confusion, or imminent death
Mostly in reference to the "beer league guy"
Reporter: I was wondering if at any point in my lifetime the Cubs weren't going to be run by a guy who didn't immediately remind me of failure, confusion, or imminent death
Look- out on the field!
Is it an infielder?
An Outfielder?
A Catcher?
No, its “SUPER UTILITY MAN!!!”
Steve Lyons, eat your heart out.
"The Heir of Finality"
by DrEmilioLizardo on Jan 12, 2010 1:41 PM CST up reply actions
It's looking more and more like Damon isn't signing with New York.
I know Boras is his agent….but…shouldn’t Kenny be looking into that? Maybe (I know highly unlikely…but maybe) he takes a one-year deal at some point. He’d give us a left-handed bat, a little speed, and at least he can play some left field.
i can see it now.
Pierre in center because Rios is hitting .100 and Jones is too busy eating Brown’s chicken that day. Damon is in left. They are warming up their arms between innings playing catch, standing approximately 30 feet from each other as they can throw the ball no farther.
ick. Is that supposed to be a good thing?
I am not your lady... I am not any kind of a lady! ~ Aldonza
by homesickalien on Jan 12, 2010 1:20 PM CST up reply actions
Wasn't sure if that was another acronym I didn't know.
I am not your lady... I am not any kind of a lady! ~ Aldonza
by homesickalien on Jan 12, 2010 1:22 PM CST up reply actions
Apparently.
I am not your lady... I am not any kind of a lady! ~ Aldonza
by homesickalien on Jan 12, 2010 1:24 PM CST up reply actions
I never saw it. Who was the author?
I am not your lady... I am not any kind of a lady! ~ Aldonza
by homesickalien on Jan 12, 2010 1:33 PM CST up reply actions
Don't be jealous of her ass-fattened lips.
Taj Gibson is the face of Bulls basketball!
by Trey23 on Jan 5, 2010 6:31 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
by Ozzie Montana on Jan 12, 2010 1:22 PM CST up reply actions
ha. oh so jealous...
I am not your lady... I am not any kind of a lady! ~ Aldonza
by homesickalien on Jan 12, 2010 1:24 PM CST up reply actions
poor girl, she could only afford enough bottle blonde for the top of her head.
These events have me frightened and on the verge of evacuating my bowels.
by thatshortkid on Jan 12, 2010 1:44 PM CST up reply actions
It's possible. But not very likely.
But hey, I’d suffer with that once or twice a month if it meant having Damon.
The more I think about it, though, the more convicted I am about
Kenny’s ass being in the mix for him. This could have an Abreu-like ending. There is no reason for us to be very assertive at this point. He can make a difference. And, he would fit what Ozzie supposedly wants. No excuses here.
marlins promise mlbpa that they're going to increase payroll
scout’s honor.
The following joint statement was issued today by the Major League Baseball Players Association, the Office of the Commissioner of Baseball and the Florida Marlins:
The Basic Agreement requires that each Club use its revenue sharing receipts in an effort to improve its performance on the field. This requirement is of obvious importance to all players, Clubs and fans of the game. In recent years, the Union has had concerns that certain Clubs have not lived up to this requirement, and has consulted regularly with the Commissioner’s Office about those concerns. The Florida Marlins are one of a number of Clubs that have been discussed.
After extensive discussions, the three parties are pleased to announce that they have reached an agreement regarding the Florida Marlins’ continued compliance with Article XXIV(5)(a) of the Basic Agreement.
MLBPA Executive Director Michael Weiner said:
"In response to our concerns that revenue sharing proceeds have not been used as required, the Marlins have assured the Union and the Commissioner’s Office that they plan to use such proceeds to increase player payroll annually as they move toward the opening of their new ballpark. Today’s agreement, which covers the period 2010 through 2012, calls for ongoing communication among the Marlins, the Commissioner’s Office and the Union as the Marlins proceed with that plan. It also permits, after consultation among all parties, adjustments in the Marlins’ plan to respond to unforeseen developments, and calls for arbitral intervention if disagreements arise. We greatly appreciate the willingness of the Commissioner’s Office and the Marlins to engage with us and ensure that all terms of the Basic Agreement are met."
hmmm:
The White Sox re-signed catcher Ramon Castro to a one-year, $1MM deal with a club option for 2011, tweets Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports.
I would have saved the mil for Damon.
Plus, I want to see Flowers now….I don’t think it’s a waste if Ozzie would use him like he should…..like vs. almost all lefties and even some righties….I think he’d get enough playing time. I don’t think he NEEDS anymore AAA.
Besides, if he totally bombs through like mid-May, we could have always
picked him up or someone like him for about the same money.
I don't think he had 86 days service time last year....
besides, how much money would we really be talking about, anyway? Small potatas.
a bit unclear on the abritration process, huh.
having him on the roster for the next two seasons would be a sure way to make him a super two. as for how much, i suppose that depends upon how good he is. martin may be a comp so potentially about $3.5 million. if you’re whining about using $1 million on castro, not sure why you’d be fine with using $3.5 million when you could otherwise save it by keeping flowers in AAA for a few months.
Yeah, I was confused, but get it now. I think.
Anyway, yeah, I can see your view….still, if THAT is what keeps him from starting with the big club instead of them really not feeling he’s good enough/ready, OK. However, it sure as hell looks like he’s our STARTING catcher TO BEGIN 2011. How long do we want to wait to get his feet wet?
who knows what the top 17% of his class looks like in two years time.
but a guy who has two full seasons and more service time from another season(s) is certainly in the mix.
Opening Day roster.
Nope. THIS is pinching pennies.
Three months of Flowers vs. three months of Castro
could make a difference this year.
So there is measureable concern.
Even if Flowers struggled, which I suspect he would, his on-base skills alone would be a difference. And maybe enough.
three months of Castro
means not having to find out.
"It's good to let your hair lie fallow every so often."
the player has to have at least 86 days service in the year prior AND rank in the top 17%.
flowers would not be a super two.
i think you're not understanding.
if flowers is on the roster for two full seasons, i’m pretty sure that would include at least 86 days of service. i hear they play from april all the way until early october.
i'm understanding just fine. you're wrong.
2 years and 30 days is not going to gain him super two status.
Larry is right
I had to look up the info for super 2 and as long at they rank in the top 17% from that class and have at least 86 days of service from the previous year, he’s eligible.
He would be a super two after 2011
if he played all of 2010 and 2011.
definition: http://mlbplayers.mlb.com/pa/info/faq.jsp#arbitration
If he plays all of 2010 and 2011 he will have more then 2 years of service because of his cup of coffee last year(2009). Now, for the 2011 season, he will have been on the active roster for 162 games.
He will probably be in the top 17% at that point.
no. he would not end up in the top 17% at that point.
Beckham will not end up in the top 17% of his class either and he had about 120 days of service time last year. normally, the cutoff point for super 2 status is 2 years, 128 days of service. the requirement has been as high as 2 years, 140 days in years past.
Nitpicking.
He’s opening day roster material. He’ll help us win.
I suspect Tyler Flowers with another 3 months in the minors is better than
Tyler Flowers at the beginning of April.
by Daniel Berlyn on Jan 12, 2010 6:25 PM CST up reply actions
so you're certain he's ready?
and that the Sox have misdiagnosed that fact? because if he’s ready to help us win, they should have ditched AJ and given him the job.
"It's good to let your hair lie fallow every so often."
i may not be doing the math right.
but i’m pretty sure it would cost more than 1.3mm right now.
"It's good to let your hair lie fallow every so often."

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