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Thoughts on Baseball America's Top 31 White Sox Prospects

Brent Morel is the #4 White Sox Prospect, ladies. Come get him.

First, the list. After the jump, some musings.

  1. Jared Mitchell
  2. Tyler Flowers
  3. Daniel Hudson
  4. Brent Morel
  5. Jordan Danks
  6. Trayce Thompson
  7. Dayan Viciedo
  8. David Holmberg
  9. Clevelan Santeliz
  10. Miguel Gonzalez
  11. Josh Phegley
  12. John Ely
  13. Sergio Santos
  14. Stefan Gartrell
  15. C.J. Retherford
  16. Carlos Torres
  17. Lucas Harrell
  18. Santos Rodriguez
  19. Eduardo Escobar
  20. Nevin Griffith
  21. Christian Marrero
  22. Jhonny Nunez
  23. Dan Remenowsky
  24. Kyle Bellamy
  25. John Shelby
  26. Nate Jones
  27. Charlie Leesman
  28. Jon Link
  29. Jose Martinez
  30. Justin Collop
  31. Nick Ciolli

Star-divide

Yes, Baseball America put the book to bed December 13 so the Juan Pierre trade that took place two days later wasn't taken into account, thereby leaving Ely and Link on the list.

Most readers are already aware of my dislike of lists because they essentially lack context.  What does it mean to be the #10 prospect in a system if you don't know how good that system is? What does it mean for two players to be ranked #4 and #5? Are they close together in terms of potential or is there a big gap? You need to read the scouting reports (and use your own head) to figure it out. 

Of course, I'm just giving you a list from a book. So, other than my comments below, what can we all learn from it.  One easy thing is to simply compare it to other lists you've read.  One thing you see is Daniel Hudson ranges from #1-3, suggesting perhaps a lack of consensus about his prospect status (and, by extension, the other usual suspects, Tyler Flowers and Jared Mitchell) - which is borne out when looking at overall top prospect lists, where, for example, Keith Law doesn't even rank Hudson in his top 100 while John Sickels rates him as the #24 pitching prospect (which, while John doesn't combine his hitters and pitchers into one list, suggests a ranking somewhere around #50 overall). Indeed, amongst the three editors of Baseball America's book, Hudson was only on one of their top 50 lists (#37, Will Lingo) while both Mitchell (#28, Lingo; #39 John Manuel) and Flowers (#29, Lingo; #41, Manuel) made two. I guess, like Law, Jim Callis hates the White Sox system - and, by extension, all White Sox fans and kittens - since he doesn't see one top 50 prospect.

Another thing is understanding the biases of a listmaker.  For example, Baseball Prospectus' Kevin Goldstein is known as an upside-whore with a particular predilection for young Latinos.  If you were signed at age 16, speak Spanish as your native language and are described as either "toolsy" or "flame-throwing", you will automatically be ranked at least 50 spots higher than on most other prospect lists.  In Baseball America's case, you often see a bias towards players the organization likes as it is believed that they lend more weight to the opinion of club officials. So, when reading their list, particularly as you get outside the top 10 or 15, you tend to see some guys who aren't as highly touted elsewhere but make the list because of club favoritism.

I (and others) talk a lot about the top guys so I'm going to focus more on the lesser knowns.  Obviously, I like the placement of David Holmberg because it jives with my top ten list.  While he doesn't have good velocity, as a lefty, he can get away with that.  Both of his secondary offerings, a curve and a changeup, are considered plus offerings already - and he graduated high school seven months ago.  While there isn't a great deal of projection left in him, pitchers like him can be #3/4 starters.

This is the first list that another of my favorites, Miguel Gonzalez, made the top ten.  I struggled with his placement on my list and he was a late cut simply because he lacked experience above Rookie league.  He's going to be in Kannapolis next year as a 19 year old but he could be on a fast track.

Stefan Gartrell's placement at #14 is a combination of Phil Rogers' input and an example of organizational bias slipping in.  Gartrell, even in a weak system like the White Sox', probably doesn't even belong in a top 31.  Lucas Harrell and Eduardo Escobar are more examples of this.  Harrell has long been a favorite - he was added to the 40 man two years ago despite being oft-injured with shoulder problems.  Escobar simply cannot hit a lick and, while his fielding is wonderful, the glove doesn't carry you to the big leagues if you barely crack a .300 OBP in two seasons in Low A.

Everybody roots for Dan Remenowksy, who went undrafted and was signed out of the independent leagues.  He mowed down A ballers to the tune of 15.5 K/9 but a fastball that doesn't usually crack 90 usually spells doom for a right-handed reliever.

Charlie Leesman is a Rick Hahn favorite and as arguably the most advanced lefty in the system - despite being a 2008 draftee and having no experience above A ball - he can probably expect to be pushed aggressively.

Jose Martinez is another example of club bias seeping through.  Had plenty of talent but he hasn't played since May 2008 due to knee problems.  His placement shows that the club is still thinking of him but how much to expect after that sort of layoff - even for a player just 22 - is highly speculative.

And I'd be remiss to not bloviate on another favorite, Nick Ciolli, who made the pamphlet supplement to the book.  Obviously he's the type who needs just about everything to go right for him to even make AAA but I like the line drive swing and I like the intelligence and acumen it takes to steal 23 bases in 27 attempts while having only average speed.

Comment 457 comments  |  2 recs  | 

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How do they expect to keep Santos?

They made it more obvious that they valued him by putting him on the 40-man roster, but they really don’t have a place for him on the team, most likely. So now they’re short one 40-man spot and will get 25K less if he’s taken off waivers than if he were selected in the Rule 5 Draft.

by Daniel Berlyn on Jan 30, 2010 9:40 PM CST reply actions  

you're the one who said no one was going to take him in rule 5.

why do you think they’d suddenly pay a waiver fee to have the same privilege of putting him on their active roster?

by larry on Jan 30, 2010 9:42 PM CST up reply actions  

To piss in KW's Cheerios?

I’m not sure why he was put on the roster for the reasons I’ve said, but if he were hypothetically taken in the Rule 5 draft, he would probably spend a week or so walking MLB hitters and then be returned to Charlotte. Now that teams have probably taken a better look at him, he’s free game for the first cellar dweller willing to fill the last roster spot, and then the next one if they’ve decided they don’t like him. That may just be crap, though. Either way, I don’t see him learning command in two months before the season starts and they could do better with the roster spot. Not the first move I dislike from them this offseason, though.

by Daniel Berlyn on Jan 30, 2010 9:58 PM CST up reply actions  

i'm confused by all this.

i see no difference between exposing him then or later. everyone and their scouting director saw him the AFL. no one is going to suddenly take a closer look because he’s on the 40 man roster.

by larry on Jan 30, 2010 10:04 PM CST up reply actions  

i like our 1-8 and cj too

but theres a lot of dead weight here

Praise Him!!

by Hawk is God on Jan 30, 2010 9:49 PM CST reply actions  

kind of like the 40 man roster.

which is why worrying about being “short one” there isn’t all that relevant.

by larry on Jan 30, 2010 9:54 PM CST up reply actions  

we could trade some of them for this guy! (found this on mlb trade rumors)

Let’s speculate, for a moment, that Lee could be persuaded (probably through a cash bonus) to leave the ranch behind and agree to a deal. Houston would almost surely have to eat at least half of Lee’s remaining contract in any trade, but for a big-market AL team that could afford to pick up the other half, Lee would be an intriguing DH option.

Perhaps the best fit is Chicago. Much has been written about Ozzie Guillen’s DH-by-committee plan for the upcoming season, and the White Sox seem committed enough to the idea to pass on signing Jim Thome. But if the Sox find themselves in a pennant race and their platoon of designated hitting options (Omar Vizquel? Really?) isn’t working out, then they could make a play for an everyday DH. Lee would fit that bill and, since he spent the first six seasons of his career with the White Sox, might be amenable to waive his no-trade clause to return to a familiar location.

This scenario is, admittedly, a longshot. It’s much more likely that, no matter if the Astros choose to keep aiming for contention or commit to a proper rebuilding process, Lee will be a constant in the Astros’ outfield. You could say that Lee is Houston’s answer to Vernon Wells - an unwieldly contract that is too big to trade and also takes up enough of the payroll to hamstring the team from making other moves.

I’ve always been a big Carlos Lee fan. He ranks in my top 10 white sox of all time. Id take him. Obviously the Sox won’t….. but it would be nice to get some thunder back in the lineup.

Kenwo4life=ratings

by KenWo4LiFe on Jan 30, 2010 10:38 PM CST reply actions  

No thanks

I did like Lee when he was with the team but one of your top ten favs? Houston is notoriously delusional and even if they decided to trade him the Sox would have likely traded by then or their DH situation would be working out.

And yes Ozzie doesn’t care for him.

"You're lucky I'm retired"
Jack Bauer

by Tdogg on Jan 31, 2010 7:51 AM CST up reply actions  

absolutely top 10 hitters.

1. Ron Kittle
2. Harold Baines
3. Frank Thomas
4. Ivan Calderon
5. Carlos Lee
6. Jermaine Dye
7. Magglio Ordonez
8. Lance Johnson
9. Jim Thome
10 a. Juan Uribe
10 b. Jose Valentin
Pitchers would be
1. Lamarr Hoyt
2. Bobby Thigpen
3. Jose Contreras
4. Wilson Alvarez
5. Roberto Hernandez
6. Freddy Garcia
7. Richard Dotson
8. James Baldwin
9. Mike Sirotka
10. Gavin Floyd

Kenwo4life=ratings

by KenWo4LiFe on Jan 31, 2010 9:13 AM CST up reply actions  

no mark buehrle?

mercy.

you are certainly one of the more ridiculous people on this board. ~ larry

by BuehrleMan on Jan 31, 2010 9:19 AM CST up reply actions  

also, for the hitters, you forgot rob mackowiak.

you are certainly one of the more ridiculous people on this board. ~ larry

by BuehrleMan on Jan 31, 2010 9:25 AM CST up reply actions  

eh I kinda like Buehrle...

but the dude sucks every year for half the season. it kind of annoys me because he’s so good the other half.

Kenwo4life=ratings

by KenWo4LiFe on Jan 31, 2010 9:34 AM CST up reply actions  

I dont think there should be any disputing that,

MB has had a far better career than Gavin Floyd at this point. MB is a top 5 WhiteSox all time pitcher.

Jones,Kotsay,Vizquel < Thome

by OznCoop on Jan 31, 2010 12:05 PM CST up reply actions  

i never said he wasnt

but he isn’t in my top 10 favorites….. which is what the list is.

Kenwo4life=ratings

by KenWo4LiFe on Jan 31, 2010 12:15 PM CST up reply actions  

Well your personal list is wrong.

Frank Thomas is not only the greatest hitter in white sox history but maybe the 2nd best right handed hitter ever.

"I don’t know how you guys measure worth…but I do know you idiots need a graph to show you that Josh Fields sucks…"

by Where Triples Go to Die on Feb 1, 2010 3:27 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

im with triples

RIP Jim Thome 1-25-2010

an AL team not having a DH is like a giraffe fucking a mule. - larry

by blackoutsox on Feb 1, 2010 3:40 PM CST up reply actions  

fail

"I don’t know how you guys measure worth…but I do know you idiots need a graph to show you that Josh Fields sucks…"

by Where Triples Go to Die on Feb 1, 2010 4:41 PM CST up reply actions  

and he is my 3rd favorite white sox hitter ever.

and if you’re not down with that I got 2 words for yaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Kenwo4life=ratings

by KenWo4LiFe on Feb 1, 2010 5:20 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

DX SUCK IT

is 3 words by my estimation.

"I don’t know how you guys measure worth…but I do know you idiots need a graph to show you that Josh Fields sucks…"

by Where Triples Go to Die on Feb 1, 2010 8:53 PM CST up reply actions  

who the fuck rec'd this?

should have their account banned.

"I don’t know how you guys measure worth…but I do know you idiots need a graph to show you that Josh Fields sucks…"

by Where Triples Go to Die on Feb 1, 2010 8:55 PM CST up reply actions  

why haven't you been banned yet....

you add absolutely nothing to the site other than trying… and failing…. to be like me.

Kenwo4life=ratings

by KenWo4LiFe on Feb 1, 2010 10:47 PM CST up reply actions  

SoB is surprisingly worse than KenWo.

And KenWo is pretty fucking bad.

The Boogeyman cometh

by omnipotent grab on Feb 1, 2010 11:26 PM CST up reply actions  

who's bad

Your Butt Is Mine
Gonna Tell You Right
Just Show Your Face
In Broad Daylight
I’m Telling You
On How I Feel
Gonna Hurt Your Mind
Shoot To Kill
Come On, Come On,
Lay Me

I’m Giving You
On Count Of Three
To Show Your Stuff
Or Let It Be . . .
I’m Telling You
Just Watch Your Mouth
I Know Your Game
What You’re About

Well They Say The Sky’s
The Limit
And To Me That’s Really True
But My Friend You Have
Seen Nothing
Just Wait ’Til I Get Through . . .

Because I’m Bad, I’m Bad-
Come On
(Bad Bad-Really, Really Bad)
You Know I’m Bad,achoo! EXCUSE ME YOUR EXCUSED
And The Whole World Has To
Answer Right Now
Just To Tell You Once Again,
Who’s Bad . . .

The Word Is Out
You’re Doin’ Wrong
Gonna Lock You Up
Before Too Long,
Your Lyin’ Eyes
Gonna EAT You TONIGHT
So Listen Up
Don’t Make A Fight,
Your Talk Is Cheap
You’re Not A Man
You’re Throwin’ Stones
To Hide Your Hands

But They Say The Sky’s
The Limit
And To Me That’s Really True
And My Friends You Have
Seen Nothin’
Just Wait ’Til I Get Through . . .

Because I’m Bad, I’m Bad-
ACHOO SORRY AGAIN I MUST BE CATCHING A COLD You Know It
(Bad Bad-Really, Really Bad)
You Know I’m Bad, I’m Bad-
You Know It, You Know
(Bad Bad-Really, Really Bad)
And I LIKE PIE!!!!!!
(And The Whole World Has To
Answer Right Now)
Just To Tell You Once Again,
(Just To Tell You Once Again)
Who’s Bad . . .

We Can Change The World
Tomorrow
This Could Be A Better Place
If You Don’t Like What I’m
Sayin’
Then Won’t You Slap My
Face . . .

Because I’m Bad, I’m Bad-
Come On
(Bad Bad-Really, Really Bad)
You Know I’m Bad, I’m Bad-
You Know It
(Bad Bad-Really, Really Bad)
You Know I’m Bad, I’m Bad-
You Know It, You Know
(Bad Bad-Really, Really Bad)

Woo! Woo! Woo!
(And The Whole World Has
To Answer Right Now
Just To Tell You Once
Again . . .)
PIZZA WITH EXRA PEPPORONI
You Know, You Know, You
Know, Come On
(Bad Bad-Really, Really Bad)
And The Whole World Has To
Answer Right Now
(And The Whole World Has To
Answer Right Now)
Just To Tell You
(Just To Tell You Once Again)

You Know I’m Smooth, I’m
Bad, You Know It
(Bad Bad-Really, Really Bad)
You Know I’m Bad, I’m
Bad Baby
(Bad Bad-Really, Really Bad)
You Know, You Know, You
Know It, Come On
(Bad Bad-Really, Really Bad)
And The Whole World Has To
Answer Right Now
(And The Whole World Has To
Answer Right Now)
Woo!
(Just To Tell You Once Again)

You Know I’m Bad, I’m Bad-
You Know It
(Bad Bad-Really, Really Bad)
You Know I’m Bad-You
Know-Hoo!
(Bad Bad-Really, Really Bad)
You Know I’m Bad-I’m Bad-
You Know It, You Know
(Bad Bad-Really, Really Bad)
And The Whole World Has To
Answer Right Now
(And The Whole World Has To
Answer Right Now)
Just To Tell You Once Again . . .
(Just To Tell You Once
Again . . .)
Who’s Bad?

Kenwo4life=ratings

by KenWo4LiFe on Feb 1, 2010 11:38 PM CST up reply actions  

This right here...

proves how much better at life I am than you. Argo scum.

"I don’t know how you guys measure worth…but I do know you idiots need a graph to show you that Josh Fields sucks…"

by Where Triples Go to Die on Feb 2, 2010 12:37 PM CST up reply actions  

lol

wow that hurt… coming from a kenWo wannabee

Kenwo4life=ratings

by KenWo4LiFe on Feb 2, 2010 5:14 PM CST up reply actions  

Buehrle won 135 games during the 2000-2009 decade.

only roy halladay-139 and roy oswalt 137… have one more for their franchise in that time period. 4th would be 123 by Mussina for the Yankees.

Kenwo4life=ratings

by KenWo4LiFe on Jan 31, 2010 12:36 PM CST up reply actions  

And pitchers 3, 8, 8 and 8?

EVERYBODY PICK US FOR 3RD OR 4TH SO I DINK WE DOIN POOTY GOO
Sox Machine

by Sox Machine on Jan 31, 2010 7:29 PM CST up reply actions  

I get it.

People inexplicably have favorites and just as inexplicably have an irrational dislike for certain players.

Reporter: I was wondering if at any point in my lifetime the Cubs weren't going to be run by a guy who didn't immediately remind me of failure, confusion, or imminent death

by Hazymania on Jan 31, 2010 9:22 PM CST up reply actions  

thank you.

didn’t know everyones favorite players had to all be who everyone else thinks they should be. If i was listing my top 15 hitters you would have seen

11 Albert Belle
12 George Bell
13 Sammy Sosa
14 Warren Newson
15 Paco Martin

No joe crede, rowand, konerko, guillen or fisk.

Kenwo4life=ratings

by KenWo4LiFe on Feb 1, 2010 12:05 AM CST up reply actions  

right right

Don’t get me wrong, I disagree with several of your choices (absence of one Fisk, Carlton my all time fave to be exact), but if I posted my list I’m sure it would get flamed too.

Reporter: I was wondering if at any point in my lifetime the Cubs weren't going to be run by a guy who didn't immediately remind me of failure, confusion, or imminent death

by Hazymania on Feb 1, 2010 1:19 AM CST up reply actions  

pitcher 3 won us the world series... in my opinion

he had the biggest impact of anyone to do with the organization in that championship. if it wasn’t for him cleveland would have been playing the red sox…. and i liked JB. He wasn’t the best but i enjoyed watching him work.

Kenwo4life=ratings

by KenWo4LiFe on Feb 1, 2010 12:01 AM CST up reply actions  

how dare you say ron kittle sucked.

he was the greatest there ever was. Calderon was pretty fucking good too. As was Valentin and Uribe. I think I liked those two guys after watching that buffoon Guillen all those years suck at short. Then we got guys that could hit 20 homers a year…. it was a nice change of pace.

Kenwo4life=ratings

by KenWo4LiFe on Feb 1, 2010 12:03 AM CST up reply actions  

wtf?

that was supposed to be to blakkjakk at the bottom of the thread.
up here I wrote this:

Kittle was a rookie 2 seasons before Ozzie.

by e-gus on Feb 1, 2010 12:07 AM CST up reply actions  

Nice piece, larry. Thx.

"his ballerness could not be stoped which rose his era to 5.42 "

by Chiburb on Jan 31, 2010 6:43 AM CST via mobile reply actions  

Yes thanks for this Lar

Most seem to agree the Sox have drafted better the last 2 years. If they continue to do that how long does it take to build a respectable system?

"You're lucky I'm retired"
Jack Bauer

by Tdogg on Jan 31, 2010 7:43 AM CST up reply actions  

depends to whom you talk.

BA ranks the system #19. keith law has it last.

at any rate, a lot of that depends upon player personnel decisions. some organizations would have kept beckham down and he’d still be eligible. a lot of teams wouldn’t trade prospects, either. obviously development, too. when the system loses hudson and flowers, currently, there doesn’t look like much that’s primed to replace them. but does miguel gonzalez or josh phegley take a step forward? maybe another pitcher has a (somewhat) similar climb like hudson? trayce thompson? what about viciedo? there’s interesting talent but it needs to develop. not a lot of perceived slam dunks or really high upside types in the system currently so that will hurt any ranking.

i think to really be perceived as respectable by most observers they’d need either a couple more good drafts or a good draft this year and some good luck with development of what they have. i don’t agree with BA’s ranking; sox are bottom third still for sure.

by larry on Jan 31, 2010 9:24 AM CST up reply actions  

Well I don't give a damn what Keith Law thinks but I get your point

I was just curious. I’m not looking for the Rays way of building (extended suckitude) but teams like Boston do quite nice. I really liked your explanation of author bias with these lists. It really helps explain such drastic differences sometimes. Or just being a douche bag if you’re Keith Law.

"You're lucky I'm retired"
Jack Bauer

by Tdogg on Jan 31, 2010 9:59 AM CST up reply actions  

if you want to be like boston, you have to spend the money.

they pay over-slot consistently. the white sox don’t. to put that in perspective, in the last five drafts, the red sox have spent about $37M while the white sox have spent about $18M. and the red sox also spend on international free agents.

by larry on Jan 31, 2010 10:08 AM CST up reply actions  

id rather use the 50 cents

on major league guys myself.

Kenwo4life=ratings

by KenWo4LiFe on Jan 31, 2010 10:19 AM CST up reply actions  

I would much rather have a farm system like the Red Sox than our current

system. To get there you have to spend – put money towards international scouting and also unfortunately deal more with Boras.

"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."

by BobbySouthSide on Jan 31, 2010 10:26 AM CST up reply actions  

true but if they do that you know they aren't going to spend at the major league level.

not that they pick up guys for 1.5 million that could help the team anyway.

Kenwo4life=ratings

by KenWo4LiFe on Jan 31, 2010 10:43 AM CST up reply actions  

Great point, look at the Tigers.

They spent the money and dealt with Boras for Rick Porcello and Jacob Turner. I would love for the White Sox to spend that kind of money on high upside arms.

by chisox2691 on Jan 31, 2010 1:50 PM CST up reply actions  

We got Peavy for some of our farm.

Of course, it took 4 to get one.

I couldn’t figure it out yesterday, but it came to me at 4am. Then I understood the FOGhat, laughed so hard I farted, and went back to bed.

by winningugly on Jan 31, 2010 1:54 PM CST up reply actions  

Only one of those guys was a first round pick, too.

That was more capitalizing on San Diego’s financial situation and a strange circumstance than the prospect value, though.

by Daniel Berlyn on Jan 31, 2010 2:06 PM CST up reply actions  

Whatever works.

We had to have what they wanted, to some extent. It’s pretty much asummed around these parts that KW prefers to dea prospects for established players. And the only reason we got Becks was because we drafted high in 2008.

I do like the direction taken as of late, with high risk/high reward or high fail, rather than conservative, Broadway-esque picks.

I couldn’t figure it out yesterday, but it came to me at 4am. Then I understood the FOGhat, laughed so hard I farted, and went back to bed.

by winningugly on Jan 31, 2010 2:23 PM CST up reply actions  

There's a mindset out there that 3.5 million goes a long way in the draft

or, the difference between Turner’s bonus and Mitchell’s. Of course the White Sox would have spent more if they were in that draft position, but in 2008, when the White Sox picked 8th, they signed Gordon Beckham, Brent Morel, Drew O’Neil, Daniel Hudson, Jordan Danks and Dexter Carter for about 500 K less than it took to sign Turner. It would be nice to see them spend more money in the draft and internationally(when they’re ready), but I also know the risk of putting 5 mil into a high school arm.

by Daniel Berlyn on Jan 31, 2010 2:17 PM CST up reply actions  

This.

I couldn’t figure it out yesterday, but it came to me at 4am. Then I understood the FOGhat, laughed so hard I farted, and went back to bed.

by winningugly on Jan 31, 2010 2:23 PM CST up reply actions  

So did everyone else

The White Sox simply don’t deal with Boras, I don’t see that changing any time soon.

by Daniel Berlyn on Jan 31, 2010 5:26 PM CST up reply actions  

yeah well, thats true. and it sucks.

by dealing with Boras Detroit had the horses in the stable to be able to trade for M Cabrera.

by e-gus on Jan 31, 2010 10:45 PM CST up reply actions  

FIRE THE WHOLE LOT OF EM!!!

Reporter: I was wondering if at any point in my lifetime the Cubs weren't going to be run by a guy who didn't immediately remind me of failure, confusion, or imminent death

by Hazymania on Feb 1, 2010 1:20 AM CST up reply actions  

does anyone have a complete draft order?

I know we pick 13th in the first, but unsure thereafter. With all the compensatory picks after the first and second rounds, I have a feeling we don’t have too much room for error with our top picks.

Also, looking at our rankings on the various lists it seems we lack impact pitching. Our top position prospects look to have some value, but the pitching is pretty thin.

larry, do you think the organization will concentrate on pitching this draft, more so than in past years?

"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."

by BobbySouthSide on Jan 31, 2010 10:23 AM CST up reply actions  

better to just directly link
Laumann: Sox will “probably focus on pitching” in the next draft.

http://twitter.com/InsideTheSox/status/8157417702

by larry on Jan 31, 2010 11:00 AM CST up reply actions  

thanks

any word on Poreda in SD’s system now?

"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."

by BobbySouthSide on Jan 31, 2010 1:12 PM CST up reply actions  

Sickels has dropped Poreda's grade

makes me feel a lot better about the Peavy deal.

10) Aaron Poreda, LHP, Grade C+: Command collapsed after the Peavy trade, cutting into his grade.

http://www.minorleagueball.com/2009/12/7/1190680/san-diego-padres-top-20-prospects

"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."

by BobbySouthSide on Jan 31, 2010 1:38 PM CST up reply actions  

You didn't feel good before this?

I thought the deal was expensive re: salary, but what we gave up wasn’t so much as longshots to make an appreciable difference at the major league level.

I couldn’t figure it out yesterday, but it came to me at 4am. Then I understood the FOGhat, laughed so hard I farted, and went back to bed.

by winningugly on Jan 31, 2010 1:55 PM CST up reply actions  

definitely expensive

but, i’d take that right now over depleting our farm system. Dexter Carter kind of blew up after the trade as well, even though he has some upside.

My guess is Poreda is going to project as a reliever, considering he doesn’t have great control and a wide array of pitches (as of yet).

"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."

by BobbySouthSide on Jan 31, 2010 2:26 PM CST up reply actions  

So you're satisfied with the (short-term) outcome, it sounds.

I couldn’t figure it out yesterday, but it came to me at 4am. Then I understood the FOGhat, laughed so hard I farted, and went back to bed.

by winningugly on Jan 31, 2010 2:35 PM CST up reply actions  

absolutely

look at what Phil gave up for Lee and now Halladay. Peavy might not be in the same category as Halladay, but he’s not far behind. Money is one thing, they’re all getting (or will be getting) paid. The prospects that we gave up, so far, don’t seem like they’ll pan out to much.

"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."

by BobbySouthSide on Jan 31, 2010 2:41 PM CST up reply actions  

What's the calculus for assigning supplemental picks for non-signs?

Do they just start following the round where they were picked?

Also, figuring Laumann’s right about pitching idea, who would be available to the Sox if the draft were tomorrow?

by Sox-35th on Jan 31, 2010 4:32 PM CST up reply actions  

It's not hard to envision one of Deck McGuire, Chris Sale, or Drew Pomeranz falling to 13

These are all college pitchers, whom I expect the Sox will be looking to draft. This draft is top heavy in prepsters, but I think they’ll stick to their recent use of the first pick for high-upside college guys.

by Daniel Berlyn on Jan 31, 2010 4:48 PM CST up reply actions  

Law said the 2008 draft was a good one.

FKL. Thank you for the piece. Very nice. Good to see the minorleague system coverage getting cranked up long before P&C reporting.

I couldn’t figure it out yesterday, but it came to me at 4am. Then I understood the FOGhat, laughed so hard I farted, and went back to bed.

by winningugly on Jan 31, 2010 1:25 PM CST up reply actions  

clearly the sox would have ranked in the bottom third

if BA would have taken the Pierre trade into account
Ely and Link make any prospect list look good

It was then I realized vegans can’t be trusted

by Scotty Ballgame on Feb 1, 2010 9:10 AM CST via mobile up reply actions  

Even Keith Fucking Law accepts this premise.

I couldn’t figure it out yesterday, but it came to me at 4am. Then I understood the FOGhat, laughed so hard I farted, and went back to bed.

by winningugly on Jan 31, 2010 1:23 PM CST up reply actions  

Just trying to do what I do best......

There is absolutely no way the White Sox explore any appealing DH option over the next several months. It is what it is. A Jones and M Kotsay will share the spot and that is that. And absolutely there is ZERO chance J Damon ends up in a Sox uniform—-but we will see him more often in 2010 as he signs a deal with the Tigers within the next 10 days.

by stanchar on Jan 31, 2010 10:24 AM CST reply actions   2 recs

could be

he also could end up with Toronto, and if Beane comes to his senses and realizes he needs an offense, he could opt for Damon (now that Ocab has signed with the Reds). Is ATL out on Damon?

"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."

by BobbySouthSide on Jan 31, 2010 10:29 AM CST up reply actions  

Johnny Damon or Curtis Granderson:

who would you rather have if you could only have one for 1-2 years? It seems like almost a wash to me.

Rose for 2010 All Star

by OznCoop on Jan 31, 2010 11:57 AM CST up reply actions  

Damon can at least stay in the lineup against lefties

"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."

by BobbySouthSide on Jan 31, 2010 1:16 PM CST up reply actions  

Please keep all posts on topic.

We wouldn’t want BO conversing with himself again.

"I don’t know how you guys measure worth…but I do know you idiots need a graph to show you that Josh Fields sucks…"

by Where Triples Go to Die on Jan 31, 2010 4:46 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

phil rogers is hurting my brain again.

can someone please tell me what this means.

Thome, a lifelong Midwesterner, also will help set the tone as the Twins move outdoors from the Metrodome, which offered comfortable working conditions. …

you are certainly one of the more ridiculous people on this board. ~ larry

by BuehrleMan on Jan 31, 2010 12:33 PM CST reply actions  

he is used to the chilly weather being a lifelong midwesterner.

how that sets the tone i don’t know… especially considering joe mauer grew up 3 blocks from the stadium. fucking idiot.

Kenwo4life=ratings

by KenWo4LiFe on Jan 31, 2010 12:35 PM CST up reply actions  

this has nothing to do with nothing... but

the only hitter in my high school’s history more feared than I was Ted Kluszewski!

Kenwo4life=ratings

by KenWo4LiFe on Jan 31, 2010 12:42 PM CST reply actions  

ARGO!

To be free is to live. To end freedom is to end life.

by usualsuspect on Jan 31, 2010 1:07 PM CST up reply actions  

knock, knock

who’s there?
argo
argo who?
argo fuck yourself!

by mick10 on Jan 31, 2010 1:12 PM CST up reply actions  

TY for clarifying this.

I couldn’t figure it out yesterday, but it came to me at 4am. Then I understood the FOGhat, laughed so hard I farted, and went back to bed.

by winningugly on Jan 31, 2010 1:26 PM CST up reply actions  

The Mercenary becomes a Red.

How appropriate. Hugo approves of this:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4874353

I couldn’t figure it out yesterday, but it came to me at 4am. Then I understood the FOGhat, laughed so hard I farted, and went back to bed.

by winningugly on Jan 31, 2010 2:34 PM CST reply actions  

i think we should have kept him last year.

I thought he did a lovely job for the sox in 2008. Actually we still miss the hole that him or uribe left in the infield since Teahen is our third baseman.

Kenwo4life=ratings

by KenWo4LiFe on Jan 31, 2010 2:39 PM CST up reply actions  

the best manager he ever had was scioscia.

ozzie has thin skin. anytime somebody says anything about him he cries like a puss… dating back to when the sox booted him after 97… which is 5 years after he was considered useful.

Kenwo4life=ratings

by KenWo4LiFe on Jan 31, 2010 2:43 PM CST up reply actions  

[.]

These events have me frightened and on the verge of evacuating my bowels.

by thatshortkid on Jan 31, 2010 3:00 PM CST up reply actions  

i hated watching that guy hit.

if teahen can post a league average OBP, i’ll be more than satisfied.

Cashing checks and having sex.

by MarketMaker on Jan 31, 2010 3:25 PM CST up reply actions  

If you steal 3rd with JD at the plate with 2outs

as Cabrera did twice in 08’ to my recollection I don’t blame Ozzie for his dislike/disdain of OCab. I do hope he helps the Reds push the Cubs into 4th or 5th place.

by BlakJakk on Jan 31, 2010 4:03 PM CST up reply actions  

lol

You’re siding with Dye in the mid-at-bat stare-down (with one out, BTW)?

by The Cheat on Jan 31, 2010 4:18 PM CST up reply actions  

i sided with cabrera at the time.

Dye acted like a douche bag… its not like he was hitting all too well at the time either.

Kenwo4life=ratings

by KenWo4LiFe on Jan 31, 2010 4:19 PM CST up reply actions  

Yea, but I'm pretty sure one of those times he took off when JD had

2 strikes. I’ve heard it called taking the bat out of the hitters hands. That little distraction of him taking off could disrupt the hitters focus.

by BlakJakk on Jan 31, 2010 4:24 PM CST up reply actions  

I couldn't remember if it was 1 or 2, but anyway, what is the point?

I could see if it was a very weak hitter at the plate to get into position for the sac fly, but Cabrera is not Crawford or Ellsbury and Yuniesky Bentencort wasnt at the plate.

by BlakJakk on Jan 31, 2010 4:22 PM CST up reply actions  

How about letting the hitter focus on a fat pitch instead of seeing the runner

take off and have to worry about whether to protect the runner, taking the pitch, or nailing a mistake.

by BlakJakk on Jan 31, 2010 4:27 PM CST up reply actions  

i realize white sox batters are used to baseclogging statues on base while they're batting

but guys who are stealing third, particularly guys like OC, don’t need protection when they steal third. when they go, it means they have the base stolen because no one was holding them on.

by larry on Jan 31, 2010 4:33 PM CST up reply actions  

One out, guy on 3rd

is easier to drive in than one out, guy on 2nd, IIRC.

I couldn’t figure it out yesterday, but it came to me at 4am. Then I understood the FOGhat, laughed so hard I farted, and went back to bed.

by winningugly on Jan 31, 2010 6:02 PM CST up reply actions  

I don't believe so,

but I’ll Google that.

I couldn’t figure it out yesterday, but it came to me at 4am. Then I understood the FOGhat, laughed so hard I farted, and went back to bed.

by winningugly on Jan 31, 2010 6:07 PM CST up reply actions  

I always hated that saying.

You measure once, you cut once. If you cant do that you’re an idiot.

by e-gus on Jan 31, 2010 10:46 PM CST up reply actions  

I don't mind guys stealing bases, but you have to consider the

situation. Your fast guys at the top get on and let the guys who get paid to drive in runners in scoring position do their job. A single can score a runner from 2nd just as well as if they were at 3rd. And if it does not then 1st and 3rd with 1 out and a pretty good hitter at the plate is not a bad situation to be in if you’re down 1 run.

by BlakJakk on Jan 31, 2010 4:44 PM CST up reply actions  

In that line of logic

Cabrera was being paid to be an excellent baserunner. Stealing third easily and getting into position to score a tying run without a hit is what Cabrera was being paid to do.

EVERYBODY PICK US FOR 3RD OR 4TH SO I DINK WE DOIN POOTY GOO
Sox Machine

by Sox Machine on Jan 31, 2010 7:34 PM CST up reply actions  

Unfortunately

That 1st and 3rd with 1 out scenario often led to a 6-4-3 and inning over

by MS22 on Feb 2, 2010 5:55 AM CST up reply actions  

The Reds staff can carry them above the Cubs if they stay healthy

(Baker being a key variable) and their offense can’t be overlooked as well. The Pirates have a nice young staff which could improve and build on their slight success. They clearly have some talent as well. I just hope the Cubs overlook those teams and lose both season series. The Brewers clearly lack pitching but they should still be formidable and the Astros are no pushovers as well when healthy. The Cubs are not guranteed anything.

by BlakJakk on Jan 31, 2010 4:11 PM CST reply actions  

As much as I hate the Cubs,

they are far and away a better team than the Reds and lowly Pirates. The Cardinals should win the division, but look for the Fubs to win about 85-90 games.

Jones,Kotsay,Vizquel < Thome

by OznCoop on Jan 31, 2010 4:16 PM CST up reply actions  

the Reds?really?

Jones,Kotsay,Vizquel < Thome

by OznCoop on Jan 31, 2010 4:44 PM CST up reply actions  

The cubs are awful.

"I don’t know how you guys measure worth…but I do know you idiots need a graph to show you that Josh Fields sucks…"

by Where Triples Go to Die on Jan 31, 2010 4:54 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

I don't know if you've heard

but this is their year.

Reporter: I was wondering if at any point in my lifetime the Cubs weren't going to be run by a guy who didn't immediately remind me of failure, confusion, or imminent death

by Hazymania on Feb 1, 2010 1:15 AM CST up reply actions  

BELIEVE

"I don’t know how you guys measure worth…but I do know you idiots need a graph to show you that Josh Fields sucks…"

by Where Triples Go to Die on Feb 1, 2010 3:34 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

The Reds have a lot of really talented players on their team.

Jay Bruce, Brandon Phillips, Joey Votto, Volquez, etc. I’m surprised they haven’t put it all together yet. Oh wait…Dusty Baker…gotcha.

"I'd rather have Rios steal 50 bases than hit 50 home runs. I want production." - Ozzie Guillen
"I'd rather have Rios hit 50 home runs than steal 50 bases. I want to win." - Servant2LordBeckham

by Servant2LordBeckham on Jan 31, 2010 8:09 PM CST up reply actions  

you're on the wrong site

who cares about the Cubs?

by jimmyjr on Feb 1, 2010 8:53 AM CST up reply actions   1 recs

In addition to the five tools that scouts use to evaluate players, White Sox general manager Ken Williams has added another measuring stick.

Camaraderie.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/ct-spt-0201-white-sox-mark-teahen—chicag20100131,0,2005790.story

by larry on Jan 31, 2010 9:41 PM CST reply actions  

[Bill James] "class, what is your response"

[Saberslaves] "it cannot be measured therefore it is irrelevant to the point of non-existence.
[James] ’very good, now where is my prozac. I was starting to think we would have to revisit the human condition vs the science of baseball discussion. Now where were we…..((0.72 x NIBB) + (0.75 x HBP) + (0.90 × 1B) + (0.92 x RBOE) + (1.24 × 2B) + (1.56 × 3B) + (1.95 x HR) / PA

by BlakJakk on Jan 31, 2010 11:34 PM CST up reply actions  

I didn't realize Gonzo had replaced Merkin at Whitesox.com

or that Whitesox.com had changed its url to chicagotribune.com. Or that publishing fucking drivel and calling it insight was still cool.

Can we start tracking camaraderie as a stat? Like, “Randy Williams earned his third camarade of the season for lending Andruw Jones fifteen bucks to buy a case of Miller Chill”?

by Sox-35th on Feb 1, 2010 8:09 AM CST up reply actions  

Thank God we got rid of that clubhouse cancer Jim Thome.

He clogged bases only for himself.

Taj Gibson is the face of Bulls basketball!
by Trey23 on Jan 5, 2010 6:31 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

by Ozzie Montana on Feb 1, 2010 11:47 AM CST up reply actions  

who likes podcasts?

i know it’s just the tops with the kids. for some reason, i’ve been chosen as a guest on a twins podcast tonight at 9pm. since i have neither done a podcast before nor even talked to this podcaster, i’m guessing it will be a complete train wreck. so tune in for a potentially awkward discussion about the al central and god knows what else.

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/travistwinstalk

by larry on Feb 1, 2010 10:46 AM CST reply actions  

this is going to be fucking fantastic

RIP Jim Thome 1-25-2010

an AL team not having a DH is like a giraffe fucking a mule. - larry

by blackoutsox on Feb 1, 2010 10:51 AM CST up reply actions  

Won't be able to listen tonight

But it appears there’s an archive of past episodes so I’ll be able to check it out when he posts it. Excellent. Represent us well sir, and try to sneak a Fuck Nick Punto in there for us.

Reporter: I was wondering if at any point in my lifetime the Cubs weren't going to be run by a guy who didn't immediately remind me of failure, confusion, or imminent death

by Hazymania on Feb 1, 2010 11:03 AM CST up reply actions  

Teh Twinn.

Podcast at your own peril. Nothing good can come of this. Nothing.

I couldn’t figure it out yesterday, but it came to me at 4am. Then I understood the FOGhat, laughed so hard I farted, and went back to bed.

by winningugly on Feb 1, 2010 12:02 PM CST up reply actions  

incorrect

i will say BRAVO.

guaranteed goodness right there.

by Trooper on Feb 1, 2010 12:04 PM CST up reply actions  

TEH TWINN!

Even the brilliance, arrogance, and thick-skinned-ness of larry is powerless before it. The first “you betcha” and his legs get cut out from under him.

I couldn’t figure it out yesterday, but it came to me at 4am. Then I understood the FOGhat, laughed so hard I farted, and went back to bed.

by winningugly on Feb 1, 2010 12:15 PM CST up reply actions  

Podcasting! Feh!

Radio?! On the internet?! That’ll be the day.

AM radio is where it’s at.

by 67WMAQ on Feb 1, 2010 12:23 PM CST up reply actions  

i have to start somewhere.

not like you ever invite me on your show.

by larry on Feb 1, 2010 12:24 PM CST up reply actions  

I love this. Rec'd.

I couldn’t figure it out yesterday, but it came to me at 4am. Then I understood the FOGhat, laughed so hard I farted, and went back to bed.

by winningugly on Feb 1, 2010 12:47 PM CST up reply actions  

I need a show

Then we’ll have weekly features like FNS Fridays.

by 67WMAQ on Feb 1, 2010 12:26 PM CST up reply actions  

And now you have that opportunity.

Sort of. Re: NYD: You know WMAQ couldn’t accept calls from you, right?

I couldn’t figure it out yesterday, but it came to me at 4am. Then I understood the FOGhat, laughed so hard I farted, and went back to bed.

by winningugly on Feb 1, 2010 12:49 PM CST up reply actions  

12 seconds? Too slow and one dimensional

I’m looking for someone who can call me an idiot in 7 seconds. Or five.

I want versaitility in my callers.

by 67WMAQ on Feb 1, 2010 1:13 PM CST up reply actions  

i can do that, too.

but i’d rather do it in a way that you can’t tell that i’m calling you an idiot until after my segment has ended. requires 5 seconds more. odds are good you’ll see an example of this tonight.

by larry on Feb 1, 2010 1:16 PM CST up reply actions  

So you will be under the radar...

You should bring your own “woosh!” sound effect.

by 67WMAQ on Feb 1, 2010 1:36 PM CST up reply actions  

i'm hoping for coded messages to the SSS faithful

like mentioning beating a dead horse, or berating the host for asking a question you already answered. :)

His name is Rios and he dances on the sand

by Nordhagen on Feb 1, 2010 1:43 PM CST up reply actions  

Do you pour coffee on golden grahams?

Taj Gibson is the face of Bulls basketball!
by Trey23 on Jan 5, 2010 6:31 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

by Ozzie Montana on Feb 1, 2010 1:11 PM CST up reply actions  

should we have an SSS podtalkthing?

spose we should just see how this goes first. do people listen to podcasts?

I'd rather have Rios steal 50 bases than hit 50 home runs. I want production.

by colintj on Feb 1, 2010 12:35 PM CST up reply actions  

kenwo should get a 5 minute What-Grinds-My-Gears bit called

KenWo’s Korner

brought to you by Paul Konerko’s shitty fucking approach at the plate.

I'd rather have Rios steal 50 bases than hit 50 home runs. I want production.

by colintj on Feb 1, 2010 12:50 PM CST up reply actions  

God no.. it'd drag on forever

I’d never get to sleep.. it’d be like that awful movie you see clicking through the channels at 11:30, that you know is terrible, but after you see a few minutes you have to watch the thing just to see how it ends and you’re stuck awake until 2 in the morning.

by Grinder in Training on Feb 1, 2010 1:08 PM CST up reply actions  

i see the danger.

well, HSA is out then. i guess we’ll need to bring in tdogg to provide color commentary.

by larry on Feb 1, 2010 1:10 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

Tom Tucker: And now for Tdogg with the SSS forecast. Tdogg?

Tdogg: It’s gon rain.
Tom Tucker: Thanks Tdogg.

by jimmyjr on Feb 1, 2010 3:45 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

PR can come on and provide detail analysis

such as the following nuggets: ugh, no, ugh, hmmm, ugh, uh no, and …..UGH!

It was then I realized vegans can’t be trusted

by Scotty Ballgame on Feb 1, 2010 6:39 PM CST up reply actions  

She'd be fascinating in questioning the engineer

about what the single flashing phone line light meant, and how to turn up the volume, and mentioning the 7 second delay over and over.

I couldn’t figure it out yesterday, but it came to me at 4am. Then I understood the FOGhat, laughed so hard I farted, and went back to bed.

by winningugly on Feb 1, 2010 1:16 PM CST up reply actions  

No Outrageous Ozzie moments with KenWo?

I couldn’t figure it out yesterday, but it came to me at 4am. Then I understood the FOGhat, laughed so hard I farted, and went back to bed.

by winningugly on Feb 1, 2010 1:02 PM CST up reply actions  

i'd call it "Ken. WHOA!"

His name is Rios and he dances on the sand

by Nordhagen on Feb 1, 2010 1:36 PM CST up reply actions  

i love it.

i’m pretty sure id do ok. moronic assholes like myself have been making a living talking sports for years now. id be a hit!

Kenwo4life=ratings

by KenWo4LiFe on Feb 1, 2010 5:44 PM CST up reply actions  

lol first of all that is the wrong channel....

and second of all i worked for mike north, Dan Jiggetts and jagoff boers and bernstein.

Kenwo4life=ratings

by KenWo4LiFe on Feb 1, 2010 5:56 PM CST up reply actions  

North was awesome

Jiggs was one of the nicest guys I’ve ever met. Boers and Bernstein have serious social problems. They don’t know how to treat people with respect.

Kenwo4life=ratings

by KenWo4LiFe on Feb 2, 2010 5:17 PM CST up reply actions  

Liking Mike North should be grounds for felony arrest.

Taj Gibson is the face of Bulls basketball!
by Trey23 on Jan 5, 2010 6:31 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

by Ozzie Montana on Feb 3, 2010 1:38 PM CST up reply actions  

lol i don't get why everyone hates him.

He’s way more of a good dude than Boers and Bernstein are. Those cheap fucks wouldn’t ever spring for lunch or anything. North would always make sure to include us interns in anything. Much more people friendly.

Kenwo4life=ratings

by KenWo4LiFe on Feb 3, 2010 4:35 PM CST up reply actions  

who the fuck is rhubard and what does it have to do with me?

your lucky i am going to the gym right now, if not i would torment you on this internet radio show. you better not fuck this up larry, i will listen to the podcast once it is posted. BTW don’t ever mention those 2 bozos in the same breath as me.

"I don’t know how you guys measure worth…but I do know you idiots need a graph to show you that Josh Fields sucks…"

by Where Triples Go to Die on Feb 1, 2010 8:59 PM CST up reply actions  

you aren't as controversial as i am... you don't know baseball as well as i do...

and personally I don’t know why larry or anyone else would mention you and rhubarb with me…. I am in a league of my own. get off my nuts.

Kenwo4life=ratings

by KenWo4LiFe on Feb 1, 2010 10:53 PM CST up reply actions  

billyok is calling from down in the gutter. Welcome to the show.

billyok: I am drink.
              Where is the gamethread?!

It was then I realized vegans can’t be trusted

by Scotty Ballgame on Feb 1, 2010 6:26 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

Redundant.

I couldn’t figure it out yesterday, but it came to me at 4am. Then I understood the FOGhat, laughed so hard I farted, and went back to bed.

by winningugly on Feb 1, 2010 6:57 PM CST up reply actions  

Jesus Christ, larry, I clicked on "sports" on the reminder and I got this:

http://www.northsidechiromn.com/ourservices.nxg

Have they kidnapped you? Are you being tortured? It looks just like you! If you need us, dammit, we’ll be there!

I couldn’t figure it out yesterday, but it came to me at 4am. Then I understood the FOGhat, laughed so hard I farted, and went back to bed.

by winningugly on Feb 1, 2010 8:47 PM CST up reply actions  

ozzie guillen is a good manager and greg walker is a good hitting coach.
I lived in Chicago for six years (on the North Side … sorry Sox fans) and got to hear from the Blizzard of Ozz on a daily basis for most of that time. He’s never been known for keeping quiet when he has an opinion, which makes him at once entertaining (and how!) and unpredictable. (Others have been less kind in their adjectives.) But these numbers show something else about him. His players are very affected by his mere presence in the dugout. His coaching (or coaches) apparently makes his players better at hitting home runs and taking walks, although that also seems to lead to a higher strikeout rates. Some managers have very little impact on their players overall results, but like him or hate him, you know that you play for Ozzie Guillen.

What’s odd is that Ozzie Guillen was not a great hitter in his day. In fact, he holds the record for the most number of career games started in the ninth position in the batting order, and posted a career line of .264/.287/.338; Ted Williams he was not. Guillen rarely struck out (only 511 times in 7,133 career plate appearances), walked (239), or homered (28). Yet, his players now seem to be much more in line with everything that he was not when he was a player.

I didn’t run the numbers for Ted Williams in his managerial stint. However, I would bet that his numbers would reveal a man who had little effect on his players’ outcomes. Despite being one of the best hitters in the game’s history, Williams felt that he couldn’t impart much in the way of instruction to his hitters. Guillen, on the other hand, appears to have figured out a way to do exactly that and the proof is in the numbers. Guillen will never make the Hall of Fame as a hitter, but if the point of a manager is to have an effect on his players, then Ozzie is probably a much better manager than Ted Williams was.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=10004

by larry on Feb 1, 2010 11:30 AM CST reply actions  

ozzie is a much better manager than ted williams?

wow … considering ted williams was considered one of the worst managers ever… thats a hell of an accomplishment. ::rolls eyes::

Kenwo4life=ratings

by KenWo4LiFe on Feb 1, 2010 5:48 PM CST up reply actions  

yep that was the point of the article

eyes roll twice

"You're lucky I'm retired"
Jack Bauer

by Tdogg on Feb 1, 2010 8:56 PM CST up reply actions  

BP is getting a lot out of the new hires

i thought it was going to be some skippable CK wankery.

I'd rather have Rios steal 50 bases than hit 50 home runs. I want production.

by colintj on Feb 1, 2010 12:34 PM CST up reply actions  

I hear you.

I couldn’t figure it out yesterday, but it came to me at 4am. Then I understood the FOGhat, laughed so hard I farted, and went back to bed.

by winningugly on Feb 1, 2010 12:06 PM CST up reply actions  

It was a good call.

Did you clean up? I might let it run for a bit.

I couldn’t figure it out yesterday, but it came to me at 4am. Then I understood the FOGhat, laughed so hard I farted, and went back to bed.

by winningugly on Feb 1, 2010 3:07 PM CST up reply actions  

Breaking news......

Brady Clark invited to Spring Training per MLB TRADERUMORS…..

by stanchar on Feb 1, 2010 12:26 PM CST reply actions  

Brady Quinn?

I couldn’t figure it out yesterday, but it came to me at 4am. Then I understood the FOGhat, laughed so hard I farted, and went back to bed.

by winningugly on Feb 1, 2010 2:57 PM CST up reply actions  

KLaw likes Miguel Gonzalez too!

Thinks he can make a big leap into the top half of his prospect list next year.

Catcher Miguel Gonzalez has good strike zone coverage with power potential, and he has already shown an above-average arm and good receiving skills. He spent most of 2009 in the Appalachian League, but got a cup of coffee in Triple-A at the end of the season, which speaks to how well the White Sox regard his game.

This is probably a ‘you da man’, but I didn’t see it in this thread, and thought it was relevant.

by soxrule!35 on Feb 1, 2010 12:35 PM CST reply actions  

no, you are not the man. or you are. shit, i can't keep track of this. you the man without sarcasm.

of course, law doesn’t know what he’s talking about with that last point. he was in AAA because they needed someone who could catch and no one else was available.

by larry on Feb 1, 2010 12:44 PM CST up reply actions  

While I'm in this somewhat playful tangential mood....

while watching my beloved Celtics the last month, I swear to god I’m reliving the 2006 Sox….like, almost over night, getting, losing their mojo, and lord knows what else. You start that bargaining thing in your head with god.

by dantesox on Feb 1, 2010 1:49 PM CST up reply actions  

This is exceptional.

So gestalt. Mystery solved! You are either Fritz Perls or Virginia Satir.

I couldn’t figure it out yesterday, but it came to me at 4am. Then I understood the FOGhat, laughed so hard I farted, and went back to bed.

by winningugly on Feb 1, 2010 2:58 PM CST up reply actions