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Winter Meetings Ahead, Sox Ship Seems To Have No Rudder



Alright, here goes. It's my first one, so just don't be too rough. I consider myself to be part of the category of posters that wants to contribute the right sort of White Sox material. Also, larry challenged me yesterday, and I'm nothing if not competitive, so here goes.

Since we have arrived at the arbitration acception deadline (11:59 pm, November 30th 2010) and the Winter Meetings, it makes sense to take a stab at what we have, what we need and possible options. Since this is my first shot at a post, I'll try and make it short. I am going to stick to the lineup, and only firstbase and catcher. If I don't fail the test miserably, I'll go for the other holes on the team.

Star-divide

Line-up/position players:

For the 2011 White Sox, only 5 of the 9 positions are set. Pierre in left, Rios in center, Lex at short, Beckham at second and presumably Morel at third. Everything else is sort of up in the air, given no real idea at first, the ability to flip your RF and DH (in Q and Teahen) and great sadness at catcher.

Hole: First base. Options: Kong, Adam Dunn, Prince Fielder, Adam LaRoche, Carlos Pena, Dayan Viciedo.

Kong (2): I think most would like to have Konerko back, just not necessarily at first and not for more than the $12 million he made last year. The White Sox have publicly said they want Konerko back, but he gave the Sox the home-town discount last time and is unlikely to do so again. Reportedly he wants to be closer to home in Arizona and no one expects him to duplicate the ridiculous 2010 going forward, but in ranking him among the 6 options listed above (1 to 6 with 1 being the best, 6 the worst), I'd say Konerko's the second best option (2).

Dunn (1): He's my ideal solution. I expect him to end up with around the same contract (in years and money, say 3-4 years at $12-14 mill per) as Konerko, given age, production and previous contracts. He's not the complete boob fielding at first as he was in the outfield, walks a ton, k's a ton and homers a ton. Left handed to boot. Only going to cost money (and a draft pick, he's a Type A free agent).

Fielder (3): The subject of much debate here when traded for one BHB. Fielder is a younger Dunn, but is going to cost more because you have to trade for him, and you're only getting one year of him for sure. As a Boras client (with a hell of a baseball resume by the age of 26), Fielder is going to want to eclipse the Ryan Howard deal. Really hard to see the White Sox doing that under the best of fiscal circumnstances, let alone with their books as they are now.

Adam LaRoche (5): I was surprised he wasn't mentioned more around the trade deadline last year for the White Sox, given his left-handedness, decent amount of pop and second-half surges. Certainly cheaper than the above 3 options, I am not really sure what to make of him defensively. Fangraphs says he was good in 2010 (by UZR and UZR/150), but i know those stats prefer 3 year sample sizes. I don't think it's a stretch to say he's better than any of the above three, and overall he's probably the safest bet to meet expectations. Should get a modest raise from the $6 mill last year.

Carlos Pena (4): I am the only one, but I like Carlos Pena. The best defender of the group, left-handed pop and one of the "proven guy with talent who underperformed" types Kenny loves (BHB, Danks, Q, Rios, etc). Probably not going to get a replica of the 3 year/$24 mill deal, I'd say he's more likely to get 2 years/$18 mill with incentives or options.

Dayan Viciedo (6): The least known quantity (in terms of on-field production) on the list, but is a fixed cost for 2011, which has some benefits. The youngest, the most raw, the least likely to take a walk, probably the worst defensively, but has a high ceiling. I know he can pound the ball and perhaps others can convince me, but I'm not a Dayan guy.

 

Hole: Catcher. Options: Pierzynski, Tyler Flowers/Castro, Rod Barajas, Miguel Olivo, some trade fantasy (Mike Napoli/Russell Martin(?)

AJ (?): Oh, dear. I look at some positions on the '11 team and get upset (right field/DH for Q), roll my eyes (left) or get sick (DH/right field/utility for Teahen). Catcher just makes me sad. I have no idea how to rank any of these options. AJ is what we have known for the longest, but I don't think anyone here (with one large exception) would miss him too much. 2010 was okay or bad, but the overall numbers weren't as terrible as you'd think (but .270/.300/.333 is still pretty awful, I admit). Apparently willing to take a paycut, (WARNING: It is Jon Heyman), it wouldn't be the worst thing ever if he came back for around his '09/'10 salary. 2...I think...

Tyler Flowers/Castro: I'd really rather not see this. Castro is a good backup catcher, nothing more, nothing less. Give him more plate appearences and he becomes less effective behind the dish and his holes at the plate become more exposed. Flowers doesn't seem particularly good, but that could be a result of a slight set-back, me being judgemental, youth or some combination of all three. Again, the cheapest of the available options.

Rod Barajas: Probably just a part-time catcher at this point. If you sign him, it would probably be to split with Flowers and then have Castro as your third back up. I doubt the Sox would carry three catchers on their Major League roster, and have no idea what Barajas would agree to. 2010 was not a kind year, worse in fact than AJ's (other than home runs and accompanying slugging percentage). 3, maybe?

Miguel Olivo: Have no clue what the SSS feelings are for Olivo. KenWo probably loves him, since he got us Freddy in the first place. Doesn't walk, some decent pop, yappy mouth, had a good 2010. 3.2 WAR, but his batting numbers were no doubt helped by a .346 BABIP. 4.

Some Fantasy Trade: (1). Because it's fantasy, this is what I'd like. The further away from it i get, the more I like u-god's idea of trading for Napoli. Russell Martin has been the subject of some trade rumors, but the Dodgers would be cutting their nose to spite their face if they just cut him loose. I think this is the best option (trading for a catcher), but it's also the least likely. Hell, what do I know?

 

Please do comment. I enjoy this blog very much, don't take anything non-baseball too seriously and want to understand baseball more. Comments about what you think of my rankings, who you'd like to see fill the spots, call me an idiot, whatever. Thanks everyone.

SouthSideSox is a community driven site. As such, users are able to express their thoughts and opinions in a FanPost, such as this one, which represents the views of this particular fan, but not necessarily the entire community or SouthSideSox editors.

Comment 81 comments  |  8 recs  | 

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I changed your headline

ahead is one word- your old one is still in the web address.

the only thing that is relevant is SSS.

by e-gus on Nov 30, 2010 12:14 PM CST reply actions  

I thought Dunn was offered arb by the Nats?

So he’d cost picks + cash? That said, he’s my #1 pick to fill 1B too, though I wouldn’t be upset with a PK return at a reasonable price.

Hope he’s not writing the 2011 White Sox Anal too. -Sox Machine

by Jack M on Nov 30, 2010 12:32 PM CST reply actions  

Nice job

I’d go with Castro / Flowers as my first choice for the catcher situation, but trading for Napoli would be my second choice.

Since Jack M stole my thunder with mentioning that Dunn would cost draft picks, you should probably mention the rankings of the players (ie the numbers (in parentheses) next to the names) in your heading to make it easier for people who read the first paragraph and skim the rest.

Keep ’em coming! (hehehehe)

It’s taken years of practice to be such an asshole.
by Chiburb on Jun 1, 2010 10:35 AM PDT

by rhythm on Nov 30, 2010 12:36 PM CST reply actions  

Solid effort 2nd

My list of rankings for 1st
kong /dunn 1
pena 3
larouche 4
Dayan 5th
no to Fielder

As far a C- Castro and Flowers is easily number 1 for me.

Does UZR take into consideration the JumpThrow?

by Tdogg on Nov 30, 2010 12:38 PM CST reply actions  

Good first effort.

I’d read your next one for what that’s worth.

by Grinder in Training on Nov 30, 2010 1:47 PM CST reply actions  

You did a wonderful job

Except the apologizing for no reason. Edit that shit out and you’re golden.

"SSS is now a second-rate blog" - larry 11/18/2010

by Rhubarb on Nov 30, 2010 1:51 PM CST reply actions  

Good post.

Lose the “hole” repeated reference. I understand your perspective. ;)

I guess one man's pain in the ass is another’s perfect fit.
by mick10 on Sep 1, 2010 2:39 PM EDT

by winningugly on Nov 30, 2010 2:12 PM CST reply actions  

Freud would have a field day with you.

Actually, any traditional psychotherapist could see that coming a mile away.

I guess one man's pain in the ass is another’s perfect fit.
by mick10 on Sep 1, 2010 2:39 PM EDT

by winningugly on Nov 30, 2010 2:23 PM CST up reply actions  

Well then WU

who would you want to be your catcher?

"SSS is now a second-rate blog" - larry 11/18/2010

by Rhubarb on Nov 30, 2010 2:25 PM CST up reply actions  

Olivo.

Barring that, AJ for the right price.

I guess one man's pain in the ass is another’s perfect fit.
by mick10 on Sep 1, 2010 2:39 PM EDT

by winningugly on Nov 30, 2010 2:43 PM CST up reply actions  

or not

if you’re into dominican men.

by Rhubarb on Nov 30, 2010 2:50 PM CST up reply actions   2 recs

heh

...and then some depressed fucked-cake eating.

by homesickalien on Nov 30, 2010 2:59 PM CST up reply actions  

I chose to ignore your obvious jest

and bring it back to baseball.

I guess one man's pain in the ass is another’s perfect fit.
by mick10 on Sep 1, 2010 2:39 PM EDT

by winningugly on Nov 30, 2010 7:46 PM CST up reply actions  

High road is the new low road.

"Even when he finally screws her, he’s wearing the watermelon rind as a hat."

by Uribe Down on Nov 30, 2010 7:47 PM CST up reply actions  

Good call TP but what is the old low road now?

Is it unfathomed depths below the new low road? “I took the highroad, I couldn’t find you up there.”

by Rhubarb on Nov 30, 2010 8:27 PM CST up reply actions  

more importantly,

what is the quickest way to get to scotland now?

by craigws on Nov 30, 2010 8:46 PM CST up reply actions  

bahahaha

4 hours 5 minutes? Is that all? Buehrle coulda pitched three CGs and the bottom of the 14th in Houston by then. FTMFYITA! - RWShow

by blackoutsox on Nov 30, 2010 8:56 PM CST up reply actions  

Oldlowroad, oldlowroad, oldlowroad!

It’s the Abyss road, the The Road road, the Bad Santa road.

It’s the road formerly known as the Only Road.

Now there is a fork in it. It is both done and demanding we choose direction.

The sky IS falling.

by Uribe Down on Nov 30, 2010 8:50 PM CST up reply actions  

it's WU that's catching

"I never say one bad thing about those stupid fucking Cubs fans. Not a single word about those mother-shitting pieces of fuck"

by onlysoxfaninbasel on Dec 1, 2010 6:01 AM CST up reply actions  

I imagine a lot of

therapists would enjoy having me as a patient, for both scientific study and fiscal gain. I’m a very, very stranger man.

by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Dec 1, 2010 10:20 AM CST up reply actions  

This is most aggrevating, Captain.

I'm climbin' in yo' windows, snatchin' yo' people up....so you need to hide yo' kids, hide' yo' wife and hide yo' husband....

Twitter: @2ndHalfAdjust

by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Dec 1, 2010 11:32 PM CST up reply actions  

"Alright, here goes. It's my first one, so just don't be too rough."

clearly the first time that line has been used.

I love seasons too. That's why I live in a place that skips the shitty ones.

by thatshortkid on Nov 30, 2010 7:06 PM CST up reply actions  

Its the dawn of a new SSS!

4 hours 5 minutes? Is that all? Buehrle coulda pitched three CGs and the bottom of the 14th in Houston by then. FTMFYITA! - RWShow

by blackoutsox on Nov 30, 2010 3:15 PM CST reply actions  

I go with Fielder and Olivo

of course its not my money.

Kenwo4life=ratings

by KenWo4LiFe on Nov 30, 2010 5:00 PM CST reply actions  

I would add Derrek Lee as a 1B option

He’s an ideal bounce-back candidate, a type which KW has been known to sign. He had type-A free agent status, but was declined arbitration by Atlanta. Signing him will not cost a draft pick. Lee was a 3-WAR 1B from ‘07-’09 before a ’10 season hampered by hand injury. His plus-D at 1B would only strengthen an already great defensive infield. If we got him on an incentive-laden one-year deal, we could stay in win-now mode with an eye on the future. Lee will want to use next season to rebuild his value for one last significant multi-year deal, which would ideally net us two draft picks in ’12.

by 3E8 on Nov 30, 2010 7:38 PM CST reply actions  

Plus-D at first?

Carlos Zambrano would like a word with you.

Interesting thoughts, though.

"Even when he finally screws her, he’s wearing the watermelon rind as a hat."

by Uribe Down on Nov 30, 2010 7:46 PM CST up reply actions  

i have heard this option before....

I also believe he and kenny are close and also from the same area (northern cali)…. so maybe there is something to it…. i wouldn’t be unhappy with this like i would be with laroche…. but i think they could do better.

Kenwo4life=ratings

by KenWo4LiFe on Nov 30, 2010 11:45 PM CST up reply actions  

Dunn wants 4 years 60 mill

4 hours 5 minutes? Is that all? Buehrle coulda pitched three CGs and the bottom of the 14th in Houston by then. FTMFYITA! - RWShow

by blackoutsox on Dec 1, 2010 12:08 AM CST reply actions  

Im ok with it too but there are still a lot of question marks to be answered

4 hours 5 minutes? Is that all? Buehrle coulda pitched three CGs and the bottom of the 14th in Houston by then. FTMFYITA! - RWShow

by blackoutsox on Dec 1, 2010 1:02 AM CST up reply actions  

here's an idea of what he has to hit to be worth that:

2011: .390 wOBA in 630 PA
2012: .383
2013: .378
2014: .374

that’s basically what he’s hit for his career…but it’ll be over his age 31-34 seasons.

Fireworks: Bang?

by colintj on Dec 1, 2010 1:31 AM CST up reply actions  

baseballreference says he's most statistically similar to

Canseco, Rocky Colavito, Killebrew, Sosa, Jackson, Strawberry, Kiner, Thome, Bonds, and Boog Powell (through age 30). Tossing out Canseco, Sosa and Bonds for steriods, that’s some pretty good company. I’d roll the dice on him being worth the value of the contract.

by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Dec 1, 2010 8:06 AM CST up reply actions  

I think thats doable.

and he’ll probably have an extreme +400 number in there somewhere.

Does UZR take into consideration the JumpThrow?

by Tdogg on Dec 1, 2010 8:56 AM CST up reply actions  

Nice job. More where that came from or did you shoot your load?

Intoxicated with the wine of cloaking powers and the gin of banning authority since 2005.

by Chiburb on Dec 1, 2010 9:11 AM CST reply actions  

it's a long winter

don’t burn out too fast

When I was a kid, I didn't want to be a doctor or a fireman. I wanted to be Super Mario. It's the most literal pipe dream I've ever had.

by U-God on Dec 1, 2010 10:27 AM CST up reply actions  

I was

going to include the starters too, but passed. And when you have a lot of shit to sort through, you gonna get smelly.

by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Dec 1, 2010 10:28 AM CST up reply actions  

Wait until I give the translation of his most recent post...

I guess one man's pain in the ass is another’s perfect fit.
by mick10 on Sep 1, 2010 2:39 PM EDT

by winningugly on Dec 1, 2010 2:42 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

Sheesh, at this rate, I'm never gonna be able to get OzNCoop

to comment on my stuff. I am trying to build bridges here guys….., haha.

I'm climbin' in yo' windows, snatchin' yo' people up....so you need to hide yo' kids, hide' yo' wife and hide yo' husband....

Twitter: @2ndHalfAdjust

by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Dec 1, 2010 2:51 PM CST up reply actions  

Clearly cleverly concise.

I guess one man's pain in the ass is another’s perfect fit.
by mick10 on Sep 1, 2010 2:39 PM EDT

by winningugly on Dec 1, 2010 7:15 PM CST up reply actions  

BER-WYN!

"I was the nicest Hitler ever, pulling out chairs for old women and what not." -Rhubarb

by South Side Expat on Dec 1, 2010 3:01 PM CST up reply actions  

please

please do this.

the only thing that is relevant is SSS.

by e-gus on Dec 1, 2010 5:40 PM CST up reply actions  

On what was supposed to be a dry run, I'm sure.

OzzieOzzieOzzie: What's the first thing you're gonna do when you get there?
MannyTheTorpedoes: play rly good then stop, hate u an take ur monies

by ScottyPods Ver2.0 on Dec 1, 2010 2:02 PM CST up reply actions  

I snorted so loudly when I read this

the guy in the next cubicle thought I was chocking on my lunch.

Please, no jokes on that one, it’s too easy.

by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Dec 1, 2010 2:40 PM CST up reply actions  

And only 2 recs?!? Tough crowd.

Intoxicated with the wine of cloaking powers and the gin of banning authority since 2005.

by Chiburb on Dec 1, 2010 9:12 AM CST reply actions  

Off topic as hell, but still sports related.

Has anyone else seen this? it’s ridiculous….and yet screamingly funny.

I'm climbin' in yo' windows, snatchin' yo' people up....so you need to hide yo' kids, hide' yo' wife and hide yo' husband....

Twitter: @2ndHalfAdjust

by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Dec 1, 2010 11:51 PM CST reply actions  

Epic fail. Damnit.

http://cavschants.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/cavs-chants-x-laugh-at-lebron-pdf1.pdf

I'm climbin' in yo' windows, snatchin' yo' people up....so you need to hide yo' kids, hide' yo' wife and hide yo' husband....

Twitter: @2ndHalfAdjust

by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Dec 1, 2010 11:51 PM CST up reply actions  

weasley is our king!

4 hours 5 minutes? Is that all? Buehrle coulda pitched three CGs and the bottom of the 14th in Houston by then. FTMFYITA! - RWShow

by blackoutsox on Dec 2, 2010 1:05 AM CST up reply actions  

Hot damn.....that's fantastic...

I'm climbin' in yo' windows, snatchin' yo' people up....so you need to hide yo' kids, hide' yo' wife and hide yo' husband....

Twitter: @2ndHalfAdjust

by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Dec 2, 2010 7:02 AM CST up reply actions  

MJ's kid is the cool one these days.

He and his mates beat UF last night. My wife’s alma mater UCF is comin’ on…

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/college/knights/os-ucf-florida-basketball-gamer-1202-20101201,0,2012765.story

And NO mention of MJ. Progress for the Slantinel.

I guess one man's pain in the ass is another’s perfect fit.
by mick10 on Sep 1, 2010 2:39 PM EDT

by winningugly on Dec 2, 2010 8:48 AM CST up reply actions  

I saw Marcus play back at Loyola Academy and thought he was pretty skilled.

Way better than his brother at least. It’s nice to see him step out of the shadow.

TS% = Thabo Sefolosha percentage. It calculates how much you can be like Thabo Sefolosha. That’s why Keith Bogans is at 70%.

by Ozzie Montana on Dec 2, 2010 11:33 AM CST up reply actions  

BTW, what happened last night?

We crushed you. After you had a 4 day rest and we played the night before. At home. Etc.

I guess one man's pain in the ass is another’s perfect fit.
by mick10 on Sep 1, 2010 2:39 PM EDT

by winningugly on Dec 2, 2010 12:26 PM CST up reply actions  

Um, you people realize that was a separate Nike commercial that came out like 3 years ago

And someone just made a mash-up of the two.

TS% = Thabo Sefolosha percentage. It calculates how much you can be like Thabo Sefolosha. That’s why Keith Bogans is at 70%.

by Ozzie Montana on Dec 2, 2010 11:32 AM CST up reply actions  

i love how many people actually thought this was something jordan went out and made as a response

When I was a kid, I didn't want to be a doctor or a fireman. I wanted to be Super Mario. It's the most literal pipe dream I've ever had.

by U-God on Dec 2, 2010 11:46 AM CST up reply actions  

Huh. Maybe this is what LeBron modeled his on then

I'm climbin' in yo' windows, snatchin' yo' people up....so you need to hide yo' kids, hide' yo' wife and hide yo' husband....

Twitter: @2ndHalfAdjust

by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Dec 2, 2010 11:48 AM CST up reply actions  

Or that Nike made to stir up "controversy."

My thoughts, at least, without digging deeper.

The sky IS falling.

by Uribe Down on Dec 2, 2010 11:53 AM CST up reply actions  

When it was posted on BaB a few weeks ago half the comments thought it was real.

It is eerie how perfect MJ’s commercial applies to his situation.

TS% = Thabo Sefolosha percentage. It calculates how much you can be like Thabo Sefolosha. That’s why Keith Bogans is at 70%.

by Ozzie Montana on Dec 2, 2010 12:05 PM CST up reply actions  

i knew it was fan made

still put it on my fb.

i doubt mj knows his way around pro tools.

i'm eager to see which of you is going to put his jacket down first so as to ensure the other’s dress doesn’t get wet. by craigws

by e-gus on Dec 3, 2010 1:54 AM CST up reply actions  

Stop making excuses.

Does UZR take into consideration the JumpThrow?

by Tdogg on Dec 3, 2010 10:17 AM CST up reply actions  

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