Relief reserves in short supply once again
There are a lot of things to take away from Bobby Jenks' six years on the South Side, as I mentioned his eulogy earlier this month. But there's one lesson that the Sox should have learned from Jenks long ago -- like, anywhere from three to five seasons back -- that seems to bite them time and time again, and 2010 was no exception.
You have to go back to Jenks in 2005 to find the last time the Sox had anything resembling a capable reliever waiting in the wings in the upper minors, ready to help when needed at midsummer. Perhaps by coincidence, it's the only time the Sox have had a less hittable bullpen in the second half of the season, compared to the first. OK, the Sox also accomplished the feat in 2007, but that's because they couldn't be worse in the first half if they tried.
Jenks' breakthrough was David Wilder's best contribution to the Sox (and he's milked all the goodwill out of it since). When Kenny Williams wanted to add bullpen help, Wilder said there was no need to trade, because the organization had an ace up its sleeve. I don't know if anybody would imagine that Jenks would be able to pick up where a healthy Dustin Hermanson left off, but at the very least, he was a medium-leverage guy who would be able to pick up the late-inning slack if Neal Cotts or Cliff Politte had to assume the closer duties.
One would think the Sox could, at some point over the following five years, develop a few other legitimate relievers to step in and provide any kind of help. I'm not necessarily talking about somebody who can handle the final three outs on a routine basis -- even getting through the sixth inning would constitute relief.
One would be wrong.
There's a healthy list of in-house or cost-free pitchers the Sox have auditioned for midsummer help: Sean Tracey, Dewon Day, Ehren Wassermann, Lance Broadway, Heath Phillips, Adam Russell, Aaron Poreda, D.J. Carrasco, Esteban Loaiza, Carlos Torres, Randy Williams, Wes Whisler, Jhonny Nunez, Lucas Harrell, Erick Threets, Gregory Infante, Chris Sale.
From that list, the number of pitchers who stuck around for one season or more: Carrasco, and he's a terrific example of what the Sox have lacked in most years.
| Year | Half | BA | OBP | SLG | OPS |
| 2010 | First | .244 | .325 | .364 | .689 |
| Second | .262 | .335 | .388 | .723 | |
| 2009 | First | .261 | .340 | .399 | .739 |
| Second | .271 | .335 | .424 | .759 | |
| 2008 | First | .240 | .306 | .356 | .662 |
| Second | .278 | .354 | .442 | .796 | |
| 2007 | First | .292 | .380 | .437 | .817 |
| Second | .270 | .356 | .412 | .758 | |
| 2006 | First | .251 | .323 | .422 | .745 |
| Second | .267 | .355 | .443 | .798 | |
| 2005 | First | .235 | .321 | .384 | .705 |
| Second | .230 | .313 | .375 | .688 |
Scott Linebrink's injury and subsequent collapse could have submarined the Sox in 2008. Before his shoulder started bothering him in July, Linebrink had allowed just 27 baserunners in 34 innings, and had a sterling 1.32 ERA to show for it.
With no Linebrink, Ozzie Guillen had only Jenks and Octavio Dotel as reliable right-handed options. And not long after Linebrink hit the DL, Jenks joined him with pain in his non-throwing scapula.
Carrasco wasn't as dynamic as either, but Guillen could give him the ball -- for the two weeks the Sox lacked two top righties, and for the rest of the season. He gave the Sox 38 2/3 innings after joining the club on July 11, 2008, and all were needed as the Sox edged the Twins by one game.
Sadly, Carrasco has no peers in the "Hey, Where'd This Guy Come From?" department, because the scrap heap isn't a place for safe bets. All the other help has come at a cost - trades that are even-up at best (Mike MacDougal, David Riske, Tony Pena, Horacio Ramirez), or the development of Sale. It wouldn't be smart to use the first round of the draft to fill out the bullpen.
(And the Sox don't have a first-round pick next year, anyway.)
Most of the blame falls on Wilder and Duane Shaffer -- Wilder for torching what barely resembled a Latin American scouting system, and Shaffer for stocking up on soft-tossers in the draft. If you ever need a reminder of why Shaffer was fired, look no further than his final draft in 2006. Out of the 50 players selected by the Sox, only 22nd-round pick Kanekoa Texeira has cracked a major-league roster.
But Doug Laumann and Buddy Bell need to start stepping it up too, and Williams needs to let it happen.
Laumann has stumbled in attempts to create cheap bullpen options. Upper-round relief prospects like Drew O'Neil and Leroy Hunt have flopped, and Kyle Bellamy hit a wall in Birmingham last season. Aaron Poreda might not have been long for Chicago either, but at least he helped get Jake Peavy (for whatever that's worth).
There is a next wave in place, though, headlined by Gregory Infante. He could start the season in Chicago, but he walked nine batters over six innings in winter ball, so I wouldn't bank on him. Some time in Charlotte would do him good. Charles Leesman also could get a look in the bullpen when summer rolls around, depending on what happens with Sale, and Nathan Jones has a big fastball-curve combo that seems destined for better results.
Behind them are Addison Reed and Jacob Petricka, but they don't register on the 2011 big-league radar.
This bunch isn't particularly encouraging, and yet they're the best potential relievers the Sox have rounded up in a long time. You could even throw 2005 into the mix, because if Jenks didn't pan out, Jeff Bajenaru was the next-best option.
It all underscores how badly the Sox have to gamble on good health and maintenance, and it's a big reason why they've struggled to maintain true year-in, year-out competitiveness. The Sox may be "All In" in 2011, but they've been that way with the bullpen every year since Jenks surfaced.
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This put into words what I could only feel.
…Okay, goodnight.
"And he rips one into left! Konerko, grand slam!" —Joe Buck, 22 Oct 2005
I know the sox were hyping up Anthony Carter a little bit....
but he’s not on Larry’s Top 11…. and now you haven’t mentioned him either… what is wrong with him?
Kenwo4life=ratings
This is an excellent piece, Jim.
The “merger” continues to look good from my end.
Re: the piece, relievers as a “fungible” commodity is one thing, but hope is not a management process, either. If there is a glaring weakness above all others in our system it is this. (Well, maybe that’s a stretch.)
I hate Christmas. No baseball. by mikecws91
Who wants to bet we sign Juan Cruz?
1. He throws hard (9.1so/9 for career) 2. His last team was KC.
Both things Kenny likes.
I like your thinking.
But too expensive, even if he only pitched 5.1 ML innings last year. He still made 3.25 mil last year.
"There's too many (bleeping) guys on the computer. It's simple. I say that. Pete Rose never watched a computer. Rod Carew never did. All those hitters, they go out and see the ball, hit it and move on." - Ozzie
by usualsuspect on Dec 27, 2010 11:53 PM CST up reply actions
Honestly I truly had not considered
the farm system’s failure from the angle of relief pitchers until I read this. Yes relievers are fungible and I don’t want to pay for them but damn that’s brutal.
Does UZR take into consideration the JumpThrow?
I didn't want to be reminded of that shitty 2006 draft
Take your whosh like a man, dammit.
by RWShow on Oct 28, 2010 10:33 PM EDT
isn't it awful?
I remember thinking john shelby might make it but he has fallen off since arriving in Birmingham
Kenwo4life=ratings
relief
bringing along young bullpen arms has been a problem in the system for a while, and as bad as some previous player directors and scouts have been, what the heck has buddy bell done besides talk a good game
Welcome!
I recognize your name from SM posts. I hope you enjoy yourself on this site.
I hate Christmas. No baseball. by mikecws91
bringing along young bullpen arms is a problem because of a lack of talent.
that’s not the development staff’s fault.
maybe an obvious question
but is it largely a problem of drafting guys who don’t throw hard enough?
as jim addressed, the organization tried with drew o’neill, but if i remember correctly he was a guy who got by largely on deception (?) and just fell apart when he saw better competition.
by Craig Grebeck on Dec 27, 2010 11:33 AM CST up reply actions
It's kinda hard to be mad at Bell, I think.
he hasn’t had a whole lot to work with.
Your 2011 Chicago White Sox: Donkey Kong!!!
by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Dec 27, 2010 10:25 AM CST up reply actions
Great post.
This, much more than anything I had to say, serves as a good answer to all the “acquire expensive FA pitchers so we don’t have another bullpen meltdown!” comments on Sox Machine from the past month. Relievers are just so prone to variance, creating depth is the only way to keep a strong bullpen.
a VERY AVERAGE Sox Machine refuge
Thanks. The SB Nation features (e.g. the z-tabbing) are really helpful. In the past I always read SSS unregistered, which makes the comments almost impossible to follow.
a VERY AVERAGE Sox Machine refugee
I dig the sig.
THIS NEW ARRANGEMENT SHOULD BE POOTY GOO
by Jim Margalus on Dec 27, 2010 12:50 PM CST up reply actions
crain ride
didn’t the sox already do that? a big thank you to dave dombrowski and the tigers for joaquin benoit’s $19m contact.
by Scott Skillings on Dec 27, 2010 9:39 AM CST up reply actions
Didn't we pay Putz >$3MM last year?
And he was damaged goods. I don’t think it was a huge overpay – not like Dotel/Liney in ’08.
I hate Christmas. No baseball. by mikecws91
Dotel contributed. That wasn't anywhere near the bad contract Linebrink was.
If is is one handed shitting. by winningugly
We overpaid for Dotel.
Maybe not “hugely”, but it would be interesting to see if he was worth the contract.
I hate Christmas. No baseball. by mikecws91
re: crain ride
Yes, but even after that move some commenters on Sox Machine have been calling for either a Soriano signing or a trade for Heath Bell.
a VERY AVERAGE Sox Machine refugee
I think you could argue that part of the crazy reliever contracts
blame starts with Kenny Williams. I remember people weren’t so pleased with that four year deal for Linebrink.
Your 2011 Chicago White Sox: Donkey Kong!!!
by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Dec 27, 2010 10:26 AM CST up reply actions
You can tell they are a classier bunch
With their early morning posts. At this early hour, SSS regulars are still too hungover from the night before to look at a computer screen without getting a headache.
by Grinder in Training on Dec 27, 2010 9:41 AM CST up reply actions
It's a bitch not being to drink with all the meds, huh?
busy weaving laurel wreath for k dawg and JR. These guys are straight up gangsta this year. -LT_sox_fan on Dec 15, 2010
by South Side Expat on Dec 27, 2010 9:46 AM CST up reply actions
True story:
My wife has pulled up a “remedy” for arthritis (for her – not me, DB) off the Internet. Gin-soaked golden raisins. Soak golden raisins (not dark ones) in gin for 2-3 weeks, let sit, then eat 9 raisins/day. Supposed to do wonders for the aches and pains. Really. I bet Coop put this up on the Internet.
I hate Christmas. No baseball. by mikecws91
by winningugly on Dec 27, 2010 10:07 AM CST up reply actions
Am I the only one imagining your wife as Granny from the Beverly Hillbillies?
“My Arthuritis is a actin up agin… gotta get me some o my medicine!”
"You People Disgust Me" - TAEG
by DrEmilioLizardo on Dec 27, 2010 10:13 AM CST up reply actions 3 recs
Flagged.
I hate Christmas. No baseball. by mikecws91
by winningugly on Dec 27, 2010 11:07 AM CST up reply actions
Nope - WU is on the list of SSS members who married way over their heads.
I join that list in October…
The guy at the bank doesn't care how many trophies you've got!
By definition, all married men are way over our heads.
“No man is complete until he is married- then he is finished”
"You People Disgust Me" - TAEG
by DrEmilioLizardo on Dec 27, 2010 3:12 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
New idea for Kenny to find more Quarters-
Have Coop and Herm team up to do an infomercial. I totally would buy whatever snake oil they’d shill for.
busy weaving laurel wreath for k dawg and JR. These guys are straight up gangsta this year. -LT_sox_fan on Dec 15, 2010
by South Side Expat on Dec 27, 2010 10:15 AM CST up reply actions
holy hell i almost forgot about ehren wassermann
i really had some hope he could have been a useful guy for a year or two.
I'd nearly forgotten about Horacio Ramirez. Which would have been okay.
Funny that all of the parenthesized mentions are KC scraps, or scraps we sent to KC (Pena aside).
biceps-deep in fungible pumpkins.
by homesickalien on Dec 27, 2010 11:56 AM CST up reply actions
We had a nice trade in scrapheap arms with KC for a while...
I wonder if there wasnt some ponzi scheme going on?
"You People Disgust Me" - TAEG
by DrEmilioLizardo on Dec 27, 2010 11:58 AM CST up reply actions
A Podzi scheme!
biceps-deep in fungible pumpkins.
by homesickalien on Dec 27, 2010 12:08 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
Well we did have Keith Foulke
Wait. He came from SF. Then was traded for Koch but also begot Cotts. Who sold his soul to the devil and helped us win the World Series.
“I love it when a plan comes together!”
Does UZR take into consideration the JumpThrow?
he came in the no good white flag deal.
we traded wilson alvarez and roberto hernandez. that ranks in like the top 50 of worst days of my life.
Kenwo4life=ratings
i dont think we coulda caught the indians that year....
but being 3 games back you should have gave it a whirl. that was a sad day in sox history.
Kenwo4life=ratings
absolutely. of course it would have helped if they had anyone with a brain whatsoever
managing the team. i hate ozzie but he is not the worst manager in the history of the game. I doubt Bevington is either- but he might be in the team picture.
Kenwo4life=ratings
oh there have been some pretty putrid managers... john gibbons is one i can think of off the top of my head.
hal mcrae? buddy bell has one of the worst records i can remember…. gibbons finished his managing career with a .500 record.. bevington and mcrae are surprisingly over .500. Buddy Bell is below .400
Kenwo4life=ratings
So arre you judging pitchers' effectiveness on "wins", too?
Bevington had nary a clue and had a bunch of talent. He. Is. The. Worst.
I hate Christmas. No baseball. by mikecws91
he was the worst for us....
but in baseball history? i don’t know there may be others that were worse….. Trust me i hated bevington and if we had a half way decent manager we would have done some damage.
Kenwo4life=ratings
Plus, they just got Robin Ventura back
He wasn’t too happy about it, either.
THIS NEW ARRANGEMENT SHOULD BE POOTY GOO
by Jim Margalus on Dec 27, 2010 12:48 PM CST up reply actions
"Anyone who thinks we're going to catch Cleveland is crazy. ...
Does UZR take into consideration the JumpThrow?
Jerry has done a lot to help his reputation amongst sox fans
but he has said/done a lot of stupid things since taking over the sox.
Kenwo4life=ratings
Fortunately, none of us on this site have.
Thus, aim your stones and heave!
I hate Christmas. No baseball. by mikecws91
by winningugly on Dec 27, 2010 12:11 PM CST up reply actions
the way they came in with an arrogant attitude,
then put the sox games on pay per view, then threatened to move the team to tampa, then had the nerve to use Disney characters as a promo tool when that whole “we’re moving to florida” campaign was going on, then opening a park that while it is nice now was not that great when it first opened, then his wanting to strike while the team was in first, then the white flag and calling fans crazy…. he has shot himself more times in the foot than he has helped himself.
Kenwo4life=ratings
im not even a reinsdorf hater like a lot of the guys my dads age are....
but you do have to question some of his thinking/actions.
Kenwo4life=ratings
based on those, it looks like JR made some 2nd Half Adjustments.
by larry on Dec 27, 2010 12:19 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
*laugh track*
closing credits
THIS NEW ARRANGEMENT SHOULD BE POOTY GOO
by Jim Margalus on Dec 27, 2010 12:47 PM CST up reply actions
I believe you've put it best previously:
“Aaaaaaaand scene.”
I hate Christmas. No baseball. by mikecws91
Yeah, but when was the last time he (jr) did something stupid?
I think he learned from his mistakes, removed himself from the public eye a bit and put really good baseball people around him. He’s let his product speak for him. I didn’t like JR as a kid, but there’s little doubt he’s the best owner of a team in the city now.
Your 2011 Chicago White Sox: Donkey Kong!!!
by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Dec 27, 2010 1:46 PM CST up reply actions
Drat!
While the late 90’s Sox languished under bad managers – the 90’s Bulls were one of the best teams in basketball history.
Six in one hand, yada yada yada
The guy at the bank doesn't care how many trophies you've got!
I was debating whether or not to bring the Bulls into it.
I think part of JR’s bad reputation in the city stems from MJ and the fact that MJ always tried to portray Krause and JR as complete idiots who were cheap and fought him at every step.
Your 2011 Chicago White Sox: Donkey Kong!!!
by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Dec 27, 2010 2:52 PM CST up reply actions
Eventually, MJ turned out to be bitter d-bag with a Hitler soulpatch.
The wheel continues tor turn…
The guy at the bank doesn't care how many trophies you've got!
Jordan never tried to sully Reinsdorf's reputation, they got along fine.
by Ozzie Montana on Dec 27, 2010 3:17 PM CST up reply actions
Krause was a tool
hes the one everyone hated
The only glove he needs is a batting glove. - RWShow on Adam Dunn signing.
It's actually pretty fascinating and there's dozens of books that show why the whole Jordan-Jackson-Krause relationship soured.
If you like books where athletes bitch to reporters in order to garner favorable attention read The Jordan Rules by Sam Smith (longtime Bulls and NBA writer). A more nuanced take on things is in Playing for Keeps by David Halberstam.
by Ozzie Montana on Dec 27, 2010 9:31 PM CST up reply actions
Halberstam is an exceptional writer.
Sam Smith? Notsomuch.
I hate Christmas. No baseball. by mikecws91
sam smith is a hack. he's a great example of why people don't care about newspapers anymore.
Some people get so rich they lose all respect for humanity. That's how rich I want to be.
by MarketMaker on Dec 28, 2010 11:15 AM CST up reply actions
He's also an example of why newspapers used to be so valuable.
Smith earned the confidence of a lot of people in a way we really don’t see anymore. Horace Grant and Phil Jackson practically wrote the book for him.
by Ozzie Montana on Dec 28, 2010 12:01 PM CST up reply actions
Krause also built
a 6 time world champion around a 2 guard. Not exactly easy to do, despite the fact that Jordan was God’s gift to basketball. And Krause might not have been the nicest guy, but MJ went out of his way to make him look like an ass despite the fact he felt entitled to make basketball front office decisions with zero qualifications (a trend than has continued for the last decade, I might add).
Your 2011 Chicago White Sox: Donkey Kong!!!
by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Dec 27, 2010 9:30 PM CST up reply actions
Truth.
Your 2011 Chicago White Sox: Donkey Kong!!!
by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Dec 27, 2010 9:57 PM CST up reply actions
How is it not easy to build a world champion around God's gift to basketball?
Of course I give the guy credit but not nearly as much as Michael. Here’s how I dole out the credit for the 90s bulls, in order:
1. Michael
2. Phil
3. Reinsdorf
4. Krause
and Krause never picked Jordan himself
props for getting Pippen Grant and Rodman though. along with Kukoc and Paxson and Armstrong
The only glove he needs is a batting glove. - RWShow on Adam Dunn signing.
by blackoutsox on Dec 27, 2010 11:28 PM CST up reply actions
where is Scottie?
and Grant/Rodman?
I would recommend putting all your thoughts together, then dumping them all out into one solidified stool.
-Shoeless In SC
Scottie is actually probably third behind Phil.
Tough to gauge Rodman/Grant.
No way is a coach the second most valuable.
Scottie Pippen > Phil Jackson without a doubt.
by Grinder in Training on Dec 28, 2010 8:15 AM CST up reply actions
Kukoc
was more important than Rodman, especially in ’98, and I think he might have been more necessary to winning championships than Grant (although about this last claim I am not certain).
It’s weird how everyone just slots Rodman in place of Grant and forgets that the first threepeat team had nobody who comes close to replicating Kukoc, who has to be incredibly underrated by this Chicago-based omission alone.
by Gentleman Jim on Dec 29, 2010 2:37 AM CST up reply actions
rodman was huge when they beat seattle.
personally i think he was the mvp of that series.
Kenwo4life=ratings
he was more important than Kukoc though to be sure.
i'm eager to see which of you is going to put his jacket down first so as to ensure the other’s dress doesn’t get wet. by craigws
Yeah, you're gonna need to readjust that for Hall of Famer Scottie.
And look, if you want to know how difficult it is to build a world champion in basketball, ask LeBron how it’s worked out.
Your 2011 Chicago White Sox: Donkey Kong!!!
by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Dec 28, 2010 9:22 AM CST up reply actions
AND SCENE!
biceps-deep in fungible pumpkins.
by homesickalien on Dec 28, 2010 10:16 AM CST up reply actions
where's sean kemp?
Some people get so rich they lose all respect for humanity. That's how rich I want to be.
by MarketMaker on Dec 28, 2010 11:15 AM CST up reply actions
Filming "Cheaper by the Dozen, Part Ten".
I hate Christmas. No baseball. by mikecws91
by winningugly on Dec 28, 2010 2:24 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
he stopped running the team like a business
when he found out that the team was a good hobby
The only glove he needs is a batting glove. - RWShow on Adam Dunn signing.
cough Albert Belle
"Hawk Harrelson: Annoying even the hearing impaired": Teahenny Penny paraphrasing Chisoxfan1473
by NorthSidePaulie on Dec 27, 2010 2:03 PM CST up reply actions
Which ironically does both at once.
Your 2011 Chicago White Sox: Donkey Kong!!!
by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Dec 27, 2010 2:04 PM CST up reply actions
i liked albert belle and the signing.
unfortunately 4 months after the signing he gave up on his plan of giving out big contracts and went cheap again.
Kenwo4life=ratings
Jaime Navarro instead of the Rocket
back in 97. I know Clemens has legal problems now but I think he won the Cy Young in TOR that year.
yah that was pretty brutal looking back.
but clemens had shown signs of falling off before that unbelievable run he had…. and now we see why he had that run.
Navarro was in the midst of an impressive run as “horse” and pitched really well for the cubbies.
You could almost justify it at the time. If i was in charge i woulda just kept alex fernandez….that wouldn’t have worked out well either.
Kenwo4life=ratings
Agreed
Clemens looked shot when he left the Red Sox. Not sure how he turned it around…but I don’t blame the White Sox for that decision.
by Gentleman Jim on Dec 29, 2010 2:38 AM CST up reply actions
I think it was HGH
The only glove he needs is a batting glove. - RWShow on Adam Dunn signing.
by blackoutsox on Dec 29, 2010 11:13 PM CST up reply actions
I would want to see those numbers leverage and park adjusted
Fangraphs has us tied for 3rd in reliever WAR from ‘05-’10.
Fireworks: Bang?
Then do it.
THIS NEW ARRANGEMENT SHOULD BE POOTY GOO
by Jim Margalus on Dec 27, 2010 1:19 PM CST up reply actions
Also, I'm not crazy about using FanGraphs WAR for historical pitching evaluation
I care more about the runs they did allow than the runs they should have allowed.
THIS NEW ARRANGEMENT SHOULD BE POOTY GOO
by Jim Margalus on Dec 27, 2010 1:21 PM CST up reply actions
i think i probably prefer actual ERA given the sample size
but it needs to be park and leverage adjusted, which fangraphs does w/ WAR.
Fireworks: Bang?
well there's no difference between FIP and ERA
they’re indistinguishable in this case. so the park and leverage adjustments would be the same. so the Sox have had a perfectly cromulent bullpen in that case.
which isn’t to say that they shouldn’t seriously consider developing their own bullpen talent. relievers are seriously overpaid right now.
Fireworks: Bang?
Cumulatively speaking, the bullpen has been fine
But I think it’s been a problem in how they’ve shaped those numbers. They have a strong tendency to start out strong, and lose steam in the second half, and they have no reinforcements at the ready.
2010: Thornton, Putz, Jenks and Threets hurt in the second half. Latter two unable to finish the season.
2009: Jenks unable to finish the year, Linebrink had 1.93 ERA in first half, 8.49 in the second. Pena was no good when it mattered.
2008: Linebrink had nothing, Jenks was hurt and Boone Logan went from lights-out to disaster in the blink of an eye in the second half. Thornton was also a little down, but still great.
2006: Cotts, Jenks, McCarthy all significantly weaker in the second half. Riske, too, although he only had 10 first-half innings. MacDougal actually provided a boost.
THIS NEW ARRANGEMENT SHOULD BE POOTY GOO
by Jim Margalus on Dec 27, 2010 1:43 PM CST up reply actions
That's the point I took out of it.
At the end of the season its nice to have arms like Sale ready to help contribute.
Does UZR take into consideration the JumpThrow?
fwiw, fangraphs has them as 1st in reliever WAR in July from '05-'10
20th in August and 3rd in September. you pretty much have to use a FIP based WAR since it’s <200 IP per bin. from eyeballing, there doesn’t appear to be a lot of correlation from month to month. it looks like other teams are suffering similarly as the Sox. i would guess this means more or less that teams have a finite supply of relievers and either develop their own or buy their arms. teams that you would might guess would do both still end up fluctuating a lot.
i think the biggest problem, period, is that list of crap homemade relievers that completely fizzled. every one of those represents dollars that Kenny could have spent actually adding wins to the team. which is clearly what Hawk means when he says your offense is only as good as the bullpen.
Fireworks: Bang?
Any way to sort winning teams from losing
Basically.. that by the all-star break, those teams that are going for it know it are and making the adjustments to the bullpen by the end of July.
Basically.. that by the all-star break, those teams that are going for it know it are and making the adjustments to the bullpen by the end of July.Pushing younger pitchers into bullpen roles and trading for veteran relievers, where as the bad teams are just going to let their bullpen fall apart as their young guys continue pitching as starters in the minors and they trade away their veteran arms to the contending teams.
Basically.. that by the all-star break, those teams that are going for it know it are and making the adjustments to the bullpen by the end of July.Pushing younger pitchers into bullpen roles and trading for veteran relievers, where as the bad teams are just going to let their bullpen fall apart as their young guys continue pitching as starters in the minors and they trade away their veteran arms to the contending teams.I’d be more interested to see how the Sox stack up against the teams that are also contending the years that the White Sox are in the race in the second half, than the overall numbers.
by Grinder in Training on Dec 27, 2010 2:14 PM CST up reply actions
Dammit.. again?
I don’t know how that happens.
by Grinder in Training on Dec 27, 2010 2:15 PM CST up reply actions
I don't...there's a serious dearth in
research on team talent changes in season. Mostly because of how difficult it is. The data is finally starting to be there, so I expect we’ll start seeing it soon.
Fireworks: Bang?
by colintj on Dec 27, 2010 3:55 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Don't forget Cliff Politte
From the magical 2005 to the disastrous 2006 that resulted in his being released in July. Both of those ’05 setup men were one-hit wonders, sadly.
"And he rips one into left! Konerko, grand slam!" —Joe Buck, 22 Oct 2005
it's amazing to me...
that a lot of people are clamoring for the white sox to rush out and sign a reliever. even ignoring the market, you get linebrink’d a whole lot more often than not. even though i don’t realy hate the crain signing (his pedigree more than anything else), if infante was given 60ip, he could probably produce the same value for $400k.
the white sox overall success with relievers the last five years has been excellent, so i’m not entirely surprised by those numbers. matt thornton has been a top 5 RP since he joined the white sox. jack moore was tweeting a couple months back about his fastball and the number of foul balls it creates. and while there’s no data on foul balls, watching thornton pitch more closely, he really does produce a ton of fouls off his fastball.
Honestly
besides pleasant memories what the hell have you seen from Dotel that makes you want him? Dude walked 4.50 – 5.2 BB/per 9 over the last 2 years with hr/9 of 1.27. That has disaster written all over it and you’d be doing classic Kenwo rants by mid season.
Does UZR take into consideration the JumpThrow?
I like his ability to strike people out in big situations.
because his strike out rate is so high it lessens the effect of his high walk rate. id much rather sign him for one year than someone else for 3.
Kenwo4life=ratings
That and you enjoy his comedic take on life.

Your 2011 Chicago White Sox: Donkey Kong!!!
by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Dec 27, 2010 2:19 PM CST up reply actions
I heard a story where he
won a bet or something and Brian anderson had to kiss his feet…. heard the story from Anderson himself. He grew a few notches in my book when i heard that. haha
Kenwo4life=ratings
Yeah, I remember something like that
I thought it was with eating chips or something weird like that…
Your 2011 Chicago White Sox: Donkey Kong!!!
by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Dec 27, 2010 2:49 PM CST up reply actions
Foot taco, I think.
THIS NEW ARRANGEMENT SHOULD BE POOTY GOO
by Jim Margalus on Dec 27, 2010 4:09 PM CST up reply actions
Have I wandered onto a NY Jets site?
I hate Christmas. No baseball. by mikecws91
by winningugly on Dec 27, 2010 4:23 PM CST up reply actions 7 recs
Can we get a ruling on possible exploitative foot pics FieldMarshalus?
"You People Disgust Me" - TAEG
by DrEmilioLizardo on Dec 27, 2010 4:31 PM CST up reply actions
I think "exploitative" falls under porn.
That said, we probably can’t stop the people who enjoy a nice pair of spikes.
THIS NEW ARRANGEMENT SHOULD BE POOTY GOO
by Jim Margalus on Dec 27, 2010 7:34 PM CST up reply actions
You mean like big situations
that resulted from you walking the bases loaded?
Does UZR take into consideration the JumpThrow?
And yeah sure
I’d prefer 1 or 2 year deals too but, I don’t enjoy 2-3 run homers in pennant chases.
Does UZR take into consideration the JumpThrow?
he did give up some homers
but if he didn’t give up the homer he was solid. i think he did a very credible job here and i bet he does pretty good for the blue jays.
Kenwo4life=ratings
Oh snap
friendly hot dog wager
Crain vs Dotel next year?
Does UZR take into consideration the JumpThrow?
no im not going to do that.
i like the crain signing…. i just like dotel too. i want em both. color me greedy
Kenwo4life=ratings
Thinking about Pena as 5th starter
until (whether) Peavy’s back. Means finding another BP arm (Dotel?) instead of a temporary fifth SP type like Freddy.
So another way to say it: “would you rather have Dotel than Freddy”?
"Hawk Harrelson: Annoying even the hearing impaired": Teahenny Penny paraphrasing Chisoxfan1473
by NorthSidePaulie on Dec 27, 2010 5:48 PM CST up reply actions
given the way the roster is shaping up
yes i think it would be more beneficial to the Sox (and to freddy) to have Dotel over Freddy this year. That is assuming peavy can go. as far as pena starting… id rather not. just throw Harrell out there and skip him when you have the april off days.
Kenwo4life=ratings
Agree on the Crain pedigree
Linebrink had already shown signs of collapse in Milwaukee before we overpaid for him, notwithstanding the initial success (quite possibly due to the new league). The guy did build his reputation in spacious San Diego also.
So while I have some trepidation on the dollars and length of the Crain signing, it’s not as angsty for me as Linebrink was.
"Hawk Harrelson: Annoying even the hearing impaired": Teahenny Penny paraphrasing Chisoxfan1473
by NorthSidePaulie on Dec 27, 2010 2:14 PM CST up reply actions
Not so Dunn deal
While reading elsewhere, I came across this column from Tom Boswell, the baseball columnist for the Washington Post. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/12/15/AR2010121506929.html?nav=emailpage
He offers some back story insight on what really happened in the July 2010 Jackson for Dunn deal that never took place. He makes it sound like less dishonesty on Rizzo’s part than infighting in the Nats’ front office.
by soxexile on Dec 27, 2010 1:31 PM CST reply actions 4 recs
They're gonna move Jayson Werth to center field when/if Harper is ready?
Yeesh. Good luck with that.
Your 2011 Chicago White Sox: Donkey Kong!!!
by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Dec 27, 2010 1:42 PM CST up reply actions
thanks for this
Cool. Okay maybe Rizzo is not quite the dirt bag I thought but the FO still gave him a black eye for the episode. And it was still just loony to keep Dunn anyway.
Does UZR take into consideration the JumpThrow?
it worked out for the better
half a season of Dunn for Hudson would have suuuuuucked
Fireworks: Bang?
Agreed.
Seems like the Sox really benefited from the chaos in the Nats offices.
Your 2011 Chicago White Sox: Donkey Kong!!!
by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Dec 27, 2010 1:49 PM CST up reply actions
This is good.
And makes a lot of sense, in terms of filling in some of the angry gaps.
THIS NEW ARRANGEMENT SHOULD BE POOTY GOO
by Jim Margalus on Dec 27, 2010 1:45 PM CST up reply actions
I never bought the
“how do we know there was a deal “kind” of in place stuff?"
KW was just too damn mad. I really felt some reneging went on…
Does UZR take into consideration the JumpThrow?
Is Lerner related to Al Lerner, the former Browns owner and MBNA magnate?
I hate Christmas. No baseball. by mikecws91
Is Carl Pavano worth
10-11 million a year for 3? Or better yet will he continue to be worth it?
Does UZR take into consideration the JumpThrow?
with or without moustache?
"You People Disgust Me" - TAEG
by DrEmilioLizardo on Dec 27, 2010 4:42 PM CST up reply actions
With the pornstache of course.
I’d also really like to know what the hell Boras is doing with Beltre. I honestly don’t understand.
Does UZR take into consideration the JumpThrow?
i'd guess if he makes it
he’ll do the majority of it in his first season. but if his fastball falls off much more, he’s going to be in trouble.
Fireworks: Bang?
Hope someone like Washington thinks so
I’d love to see him out of the division.
"Hawk Harrelson: Annoying even the hearing impaired": Teahenny Penny paraphrasing Chisoxfan1473
by NorthSidePaulie on Dec 27, 2010 5:51 PM CST up reply actions
another bullpen guy i somewhat was interested in signed
takashi saito to the brew crew for 1 yr/2 mil plus incentives.
Kenwo4life=ratings
Brewers looking very interesting
"Hawk Harrelson: Annoying even the hearing impaired": Teahenny Penny paraphrasing Chisoxfan1473
by NorthSidePaulie on Dec 27, 2010 5:49 PM CST up reply actions
the reds are fairly stacked with average to good starting pitching,
which should serve them well in that division.
I'd like the Brewers to hit the postseason, but I'm guessing the Reds again.
It’s a toss-up.
"My role hads not changed: Old punching bag." -winningugly
if chapman lives up to their expectations he would change things.
they need to fuck off with the ‘cuban missile’ nickname though. it has even made it to his baseball reference page.
this is an elaborate ploy to get 'slash' back in the mix.
Some people get so rich they lose all respect for humanity. That's how rich I want to be.
by MarketMaker on Dec 28, 2010 11:16 AM CST up reply actions
I think the reds will stay within striking distance
But I think the Dusty factor catches up to them this year. I could see all of their top 4 starters spending time on the DL.
seems as though they have enough average guys to plug in by way of replacement.
i will be interested to see if the ‘dusty factor’ rings true. he wasn’t really given the chance to overuse chapman last year.
did he do the same with the giants? could just be he really wanted to screw it to the cubs.
If there is a guy
who got Dusty’d it was Arthur Rhodes and he’s with Texas now. They got exceptional numbers from him though and he’s gone. They had a bunch of walk off wins and scrubs performing really well.
saito
doesnt fit the hard throwing late 20s, early 30s mold that KW generally has gone after to fill the bullpen. what are the odds we can sign rauch, delcarmen or farnsworth to a similar contract?
Too many "How's the weather down there?" jokes.
THIS NEW ARRANGEMENT SHOULD BE POOTY GOO
by Jim Margalus on Dec 27, 2010 7:58 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
left early for the all star breaking after getting shelled, right?
Since then he has gotten a pretty sweet neck tattoo though. maybe that works in his favor.
I would recommend putting all your thoughts together, then dumping them all out into one solidified stool.
-Shoeless In SC
Reminds me of Jack Walsh in "Midnight Run".
“Why aren’t you popular with the Chicago police department, Jack?”
I hate Christmas. No baseball. by mikecws91
But The Dugout would never be the same.
busy weaving laurel wreath for k dawg and JR. These guys are straight up gangsta this year. -LT_sox_fan on Dec 15, 2010
by South Side Expat on Dec 28, 2010 3:01 AM CST up reply actions
wouldn't the lesson of Jenks
departing be that finding relievers can be a matter of luck sometimes. he acted his way out of the Angels organization by off the field behavior. he basically fell into the Sox lap. that being said, maybe KW can pull off a shrewd waiver claim or rule 5 pitcher to throw in the ’11 pen.
The bases were drunk, and I painted the black with my best yakker. But blue squeezed me, and I went full. I came back with my heater, but the stick flares one the other way and chalk flies for two bases. Three earnies! Next thing I know, skipper hooks me and I'm sipping suds with the clubby
I wouldn't say that's particular to Jenks or the bullpen.
Look at Josh Hamilton. Basically the same story times a billion. That’s just scouting and a lot of luck.
With regards to the bullpen, they’ve tried to sort through other teams’ rejects for the last five years. I guess you could count Thornton in the spring of ‘06, but since then, Carrasco’s the only thing close to Jenks. That’s not really a sound plan of attack anymore.
THIS NEW ARRANGEMENT SHOULD BE POOTY GOO
by Jim Margalus on Dec 27, 2010 7:18 PM CST up reply actions
Santos is another one, pure luck there
The only glove he needs is a batting glove. - RWShow on Adam Dunn signing.
The pic looks like Infante is testing the prototype for the new "Thanksfante" cap...
but the bubblegum really seems tacky.
"You People Disgust Me" - TAEG
by DrEmilioLizardo on Dec 27, 2010 8:33 PM CST reply actions
White Sox bullpen woes (i.e., lack of minor league development)
Oakland A’s GM Billy Beane chlortles in “Money Ball” how he snookered then green/new WSox GM Kenny Williams into drafting (one batter and done), situational reliever Royce Ring and passing on Joe Blanton (who the A’s then gleefully snapped up a few picks later)? That should have been enough to fire then Scouting Director Duane Schaffer (a holdover from the woefully depressing GM Ron Schueler years), right then and there, but the always loyal Reinsdorf blocked Kenny canning his useless arse. Despite Schaeffer’s departure, however, the White Sox farm system continues to rank right near the bottom of the major league barrel. That poses the question, “why hasn’t Kenny done something about it?’”.
Is there another team in MLB that can boast so many first round draft pick busts over the eight years preceding the drafts of Beckham and Sale during Kenny’s watch? Millions of dollars down the old tubes on the likes of Kris Honel, soft throwing Lance Broadway and so many more total busts! As for the White Sox Latin America scouting operation? Kenny I’m sure got Krumbs Krause jammed down his throat by Reinsdorf, and we all know that the only thing that Krumbs excels as it paranoia.
by So Cal WSox fan on Dec 27, 2010 8:55 PM CST reply actions
you had me until that last sentence
The only glove he needs is a batting glove. - RWShow on Adam Dunn signing.
well i must have missed the page where billy beane tricked KW into drafting royce ring
and as for other teams crapping the bed in the first round, a great deal of other teams are in the same boat. just because you’re a first-round talent doesn’t mean you pan out.
When I was a kid, I didn't want to be a doctor or a fireman. I wanted to be Super Mario. It's the most literal pipe dream I've ever had.
but when you crap the bed year after year, don't you think there may be a problem?
If is is one handed shitting. by winningugly
oh there definitely was
but they were targeting low risk, medium ceiling guys. that seems to be in the past now.
When I was a kid, I didn't want to be a doctor or a fireman. I wanted to be Super Mario. It's the most literal pipe dream I've ever had.
Congrats on hitting MLB Trade Rumors with this one.
It even says “Jim Margalus of South Side Sox”.
"And he rips one into left! Konerko, grand slam!" —Joe Buck, 22 Oct 2005
FJB.
busy weaving laurel wreath for k dawg and JR. These guys are straight up gangsta this year. -LT_sox_fan on Dec 15, 2010
by South Side Expat on Dec 28, 2010 12:12 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Though I am laughing,
I feel bad. I hit against JB in fantasy camp. I actually fouled off a few before striking out. I couldn’t even touch Dotson. JB was all over the place wild.
I hate Christmas. No baseball. by mikecws91
Soriano?
Anyone think theres any chance of landindg soriano? That would solidify the pen in a heartbea. Definatly goes with the “all in” approach as well..

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