Only Oney can make Jenks look good
by Jim Margalus on Dec 28, 2010 11:59 PM CST
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PrintIt turns out Oney Guillen does have power. It's just the kind that's not really beneficial to anybody. Like having particularly potent gas, nobody wins in the end.
Up until his Twitter outburst on Tuesday night, I had fully intended to defend his father's bullpen management after Scott Merkin reported Bobby Jenks' barely veiled rip job earlier in the day. I've followed Jenks' entire career closely, and most of Ozzie Guillen's, and it's my opinion that Guillen has handled Jenks with aplomb.
I wouldn't expect Jenks to like Guillen's style of management. Maybe I overuse "indignant" when referring to Jenks, but that's the perfect word. "Thick" describes his head just as well as it does his midsection, so Guillen often needed to use a whip to get his message to register. But he also defended Jenks when people like us wanted him out of the closer role. Guillen has sometimes been his only ally. It's not surprising that somebody as easily wounded as Jenks -- in more ways than one -- would only remember the bad times.
But hey, Jenks' reaction is understandable, too. Tough love rarely sits well immediately, and I've had teachers I only appreciated after the class was over. Jenks should realize that he wouldn't be nearly as wealthy without Guillen, and it's a shame if he never does.
That's all that really needed to be said about it. Oney Guillen had other ideas, and dumped some alleged skeletons out of the closet from Venezuela via Twitter.
In the process, he inadvertently made Jenks a somewhat sympathetic figure, even while spilling some potentially damaging information about him. That takes a certain kind of talent.
I wouldn't be surprised if most, if not all, of what Oney Guillen tweeted about Jenks was true. There were a couple of weird tongue-holding episodes at the end of the season; Jenks creating an uneasy scene by spitting on the clubhouse floor, Kenny Williams saying "there are certain things I'm not going to talk about right now."
To this point, Williams has resisted kicking Jenks out the door, but Oney seems to have filled in at least some of the blanks. None of it was necessary.
OK, nothing Guillen's middle son does is necessary when it comes to White Sox Business, but this was bringing a grenade to a pillow fight. Jenks only criticized Ozzie the Manager, and that brings only Bobby the Pitcher into play. There's lots of room for insult there. His attitude, his inconsistent performance, which may have been attributable to his inconsistent conditioning ... pick one and hammer away if you please. That's an eye for an eye, and all in a day's work for these highly compensated professionals.
That would accomplish far more than taking private information and making it public. In the short term, it embarrasses Jenks. Maybe. We know the bubble that surrounds him is pretty dense, and besides, he already has financial security for the next two years. This might just be a minor inconvenience at worst, for all we know. Jenks could very well have roughed up a clubbie, but Manny Ramirez pushed over a sexagenarian team assistant in Boston, and he still got paid afterward.
Otherwise, who comes out looking good? Nobody important. Williams and all involved Guillens could be on the same side in theory, but it doesn't make anybody's job easier. Jenks might be the center of this controversy, but it's no longer about only him.
Now it brings all players with dirty laundry into play. It's unlikely that Jenks is the only player with off-field issues of some degree, so are any of them safe? Maybe if they don't offend the questionable sensibilities of the manager's son, and that's just great. There's something fundamentally wrong with an organization if somebody who has no official position with the team has that much clout.
All 30 MLB clubhouses have eye-opening secrets. In 29 of them, they aren't spilled in childish and wholly unwarranted tantrums by connected-yet-irrelevant personnel, and I'd expect the rest of the league to notice.
This isn't just Oney Guillen's third prolonged ploy for attention at the expense of internal affairs -- it's also his most egregious. If the Sox shrug this one off, I wonder how serious it will have to get before it's taken seriously.
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Discord!
oh wait, thats a bad thing
The only glove he needs is a batting glove. - RWShow on Adam Dunn signing.
I want Oney's address.
He’s an ass.
i'm eager to see which of you is going to put his jacket down first so as to ensure the other’s dress doesn’t get wet. by craigws
agreed. nice write up
the last thing i want to hear about is this dipshit on twitter. like i said earlier… ozzie himself ripped the team on his way out of chicago. that is what long time guys usually do….. yet its the white sox that continuously attack them. i feel like grabbing this idiot’s iphone, tossing it to the ground and stomping on it.
Kenwo4life=ratings
But what can the white sox do?
Paying any considerable attention by the team to his tweets or even taking ANY action in terms of personnel changes etc would just give some credence to Oney’s role and “power”.
The fans should just laugh it off and move on. The same should be be done by KW and the office, in public. In private, I am sure they will find a way to take care of this.
Taking a walk in a donkey park listening to the wind of change
why are you sure of that?
they haven’t been able to shut him up for about a year now….. fans could laugh it off- but jenks won’t…. and i don’t blame him. other free agents won’t either…. and other members of the team (there are surely some who have done questionable things) aren’t going to like it either. this unfortunately has opened up a big can of worms yet again.
Kenwo4life=ratings
good point on the players, forgot to mention that part
Ozzie already has somewhat a bad rap with the guys that have never played for him, and this just makes the situation worse.
And no, I am not sure. But I tend to believe that Ozzie will recognize this event as very damaging to his reputation and the business he is trying to build around himself. And maybe he finally got a proof that besides protecting your being important it is also important to make sure the family doesn’t get into the situations that require his protection (not sure if the sentence makes sense, but I hope you get the point).
Taking a walk in a donkey park listening to the wind of change
crap, this shit needs edit button
basically I am hoping this situation will get Ozzie to consider shutting Oney up a bit. Being a former player himself I am sure he is embarrassed to see the private stuff get out like this.
Taking a walk in a donkey park listening to the wind of change
It just keeps getting more severe.
First conflict: Pure selfishness. “I want to say whatever I want about whoever I want.” Unprofessional, immature, but mostly harmless.
Second conflict: Accused Kenny Williams of not caring because he didn’t give Ozzie another reliever in Kansas City (a baseball opinion), but also implied infidelity and threatened to shine a light on other offenses (serious).
Third conflict: Introducing serious accusations never before mentioned in a public forum.
Ozzie and the Sox have only denounced the first one. I think it’s prudent to press them on the issue.
THIS NEW ARRANGEMENT SHOULD BE POOTY GOO
by Jim Margalus on Dec 29, 2010 12:49 AM CST up reply actions
How do they denounce what may or may not be true?
The “another reliever thing” is easy enough to dismiss on baseball grounds. The “infidelity” thing could at BEST be problematic, at worst be libel to denounce. And the last bit…well…how DO you properly step out to defend a player not on your roster from charges laid out by someone not officially on your payroll?
“We’re sorry this dumbass is spilling what should be your private business, very very sorry?”
It sounds like South Park’s treatment on that BP CEO. “I’m sorry. I’m…sorry. I’m sorry…”
Sox are left gritting their teeth, Ozzie has to find a way to balance baseball and family (an exchange that, given what we’ve seen from his personality so far, won’t go well), and Oney needs to be shot into the sun. Denouncing won’t really happen/go well.
It has nothing to do with the validity of the accusations.
Ozzie and the White Sox can’t be associated with the accusations, period.
"It's like an elephant rodeo in there."
too late then
this kids last name already puts a big damper on all of this.
The only glove he needs is a batting glove. - RWShow on Adam Dunn signing.
I agree it has nothing to do with the validaty
But I think what he is saying that Ozzie is the only one that can really do something, not the team.
Sigh, this is embarrassing. South Side Expat, do you have any drinks left?
Taking a walk in a donkey park listening to the wind of change
I swear, this was gonna be an uplifting piece before Oney stepped in.
THIS NEW ARRANGEMENT SHOULD BE POOTY GOO
by Jim Margalus on Dec 29, 2010 1:23 AM CST up reply actions
Is it just me
or does Oney feel like the failure child to all of US for some reason?
I don’t know, but I just get ulcers whenever the damn kid says something dumb with unerring smugness.
@RWShow: See what blackoutsox and LT wrote. They got it. The Sox technically aren’t associated with the comments, even though they are. It’s Ozzie’s problem directly. He has to deal with it. If he doesn’t, then it becomes the Sox’ problem, even though it’s not. Funny how that works out.
Oney could have witnessed this stuff first hand
I would sincerely hope Ozzie’s not talking about this stuff at Thanksgiving. I guess they could ban Oney, or one day Oney gets traded to the Orioles, bats in a late season game, and gets to yell this stuff at Jenks from the batter’s box.
Right or wrong, the clubhouse stuff is sacred. One gets access on the unwritten promise to shut up about what one sees (meaning non-reporters).
by TasteeFreeze on Dec 29, 2010 9:07 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
But what does this say about Ozzie the Personnel Manager?
Did Oney independently acquire this information and disseminate it? Or did he learn about it from Ozzie? Why does he retain this level of knowledge about a player’s personal life?
Furthermore, does Ozzie have any family clout in making him stop? Any personal interest in making him stop? Any authoritarian role or ability in making Oney stop at all? If yes, why hasn’t he? If no, how did it reach the point where someone this amazingly loud and incompetent could have such unfettered access to players’ personal lives?
And finally, how might this change the White Sox clubhouse, or the attraction of free agents or players seeking trades to desire going to Chicago, knowing the people who should be trusted with dirty laundry are untrustworthy?
What I’m basically getting at is, and remember I’m someone who’d typically defend Ozzie eccentricities, should Ozzie be fired for this? Does this signal a change from a fun and freewheeling clubhouse to one with poisoning and paranoid? He’s got an immediate relation laying out a former player’s personal problems for literally zero sensible reason, and this is the first time in his tenure that I’ve ever felt like Ozzie actually faces a real chance of serious intra-club disciplining and/or firing.
I agree that shit like this kills our chances with free agents
Ozzie doesnt get a lot of love from players around the league himself, and if his son is going to post personal shit then no chance in hell I am going to Chicago.
The only glove he needs is a batting glove. - RWShow on Adam Dunn signing.
by blackoutsox on Dec 29, 2010 12:57 AM CST up reply actions
Sure it does.
Look at your own sig. Dunn/Crain knew Oney’s history and all that Ozzie/family bring to the table. Or at least their agents did.
It makes management look stupid and out-of-control. That doesn’t help, but it won’t prevent free-agents from signing.
I hate Christmas. No baseball. by mikecws91
This is different
Way over the line.
Does UZR take into consideration the JumpThrow?
by Tdogg on Dec 29, 2010 8:10 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
perhaps crain and dunn are not the types to cheat on their wives/girlfriends or get into fights.
also, they didn’t yet know that someone was going to be airing publicly things that have always stayed within the clubhouse.
i agree with tdogg. this is quite different than what’s come before.
agree with larry and tdogg.
before this he was ripping kenny and adding fuel to that fire…. this is a blatant airing of dirty clubhouse laundry. uncalled for. especially when the dumb kids old man did the same exact thing as jenks on his way out of town.
they better hope jenks doesn’t start talking about ozzie or this could get brutal.
Kenwo4life=ratings
I am not disagreeing that this is different or over the line.
Somehow this will be handled – firing Ozzie, banning Oney, Luca Brasi, etc. This will not affect free agents coming to Chicago IF it is handled appropriately. If it is swept under the run – like before – then we have a problem.
I hate Christmas. No baseball. by mikecws91
by winningugly on Dec 29, 2010 10:25 AM CST up reply actions
That run really tied the room together.
Reporter: I was wondering if at any point in my lifetime the Cubs weren't going to be run by a guy who didn't immediately remind me of failure, confusion, or imminent death
by Hazymania on Dec 29, 2010 10:45 AM CST up reply actions 5 recs
Well, thank you.
Ending the year as I started. Dammit.
I hate Christmas. No baseball. by mikecws91
by winningugly on Dec 29, 2010 12:26 PM CST up reply actions
Did it not.
biceps-deep in fungible pumpkins.
by homesickalien on Dec 29, 2010 12:29 PM CST up reply actions
Cant wait for 2011!!
"You People Disgust Me" - TAEG
by DrEmilioLizardo on Dec 29, 2010 12:43 PM CST up reply actions
Yes, fire Ozzie.
That’s the only way to stop this silly shit. Cut off Oney’s source of information and he can’t embarrass the sox any more than he already has. Ozzie either doesn’t have control of his family or doesn’t care to have control.
If is is one handed shitting. by winningugly
I don't fire Ozzie unless he does NOT agree to muzzle his kid
and ban him from the clubhouse.
I hate Christmas. No baseball. by mikecws91
If so, they've already set up an "if/then" scenario
for the next time it happened. If so, now it is a question of enforcing the parameters set the last time.
I hate Christmas. No baseball. by mikecws91
they could
impose a twitter ban on oney- if it happens again, ozzie’s gone. but something like that could have happened the last time oney did this.
ozzie has to put the twitter ban on oney
not the white sox. he isn’t an employee. i am just sick of hearing about this stuff. its so stupid. the kid needs to stop being a douche and grow up.
Kenwo4life=ratings
Agreed.
"'This is an issue Ozzie Guillen obviously feels very passionately about. Ozzie certainly has his own experiences as a player, coach and manager, and is entitled to his own opinions, but the Chicago White Sox believe his views are incorrect.'' - (What should be the) White Sox official statement (on the DH issue and coveting speed over OPS)
I immediately regret
reading the comment section in the big league stew article on the matter.
Holy cesspooling shit batman. Make the racism/idiocy stop.
KenWo is weeping somewhere
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2010/12/blue-jays-to-sign-octavio-dotel.html
The only glove he needs is a batting glove. - RWShow on Adam Dunn signing.
Oney, Ozney, Uday, Qusay, whoever! Ozzie needs to shut them all up.
"It's like an elephant rodeo in there."
Ozney's just playing ball now.
Uday and Qusay have been dead for like 7 years.
Let’s see a little perspective here, mmkay?
You're right. I can't imagine what I was thinking when I wrote this obvious non-joke.
Ahem.
"It's like an elephant rodeo in there."
3.40 ERA, 3.16 FIP, 9K/9, 3BB/9, 54% GB, integral part of WS
…and nothin but hate hate hate
Fireworks: Bang?
No hate here.
I was one who last year wanted to keep him and not trade him. In retrospect, the CW was correct – he should’ve been traded. But no hate here.
I hate Christmas. No baseball. by mikecws91
I was hoping to trade him in the offseason of '08; yet I am still far from hating Bobby.
I would rather use Bobby’s current value to get someone good (and try Dotel – hope he has a great season – or Thornton to close) than let him fizzle out on our watch.
Bobby can give up a home run or put runners on base as well as the next one. I love the guy – been great to us – but if he is the player who gives us leverage to get something we need more (CF/SP), I’m all for trading him.
…and then some depressed fucked-cake eating.
by homesickalien on Dec 11, 2008 9:11 AM PST up actions
biceps-deep in fungible pumpkins.
by homesickalien on Dec 29, 2010 3:20 PM CST up reply actions
It will return. Oh yes. It always returns.
biceps-deep in fungible pumpkins.
by homesickalien on Dec 29, 2010 3:23 PM CST up reply actions
I wanted to keep him and try to bring him along as a starter like the Rangers did with C.J. Wilson.
The Sox will have to get a lot better at developing options from within now if free agents will fear having their personal lives exposed by the loudmouth manager’s even louder mouthed kid. If I’m Bobby, I’m asking my union rep what rights I have when my former manager is telling his kids about my personal affairs.
"'This is an issue Ozzie Guillen obviously feels very passionately about. Ozzie certainly has his own experiences as a player, coach and manager, and is entitled to his own opinions, but the Chicago White Sox believe his views are incorrect.'' - (What should be the) White Sox official statement (on the DH issue and coveting speed over OPS)
Tweeting about issues like this is beyond bush-leauge.
Oney needs to grow some Ugueth Urbina sized balls and learn how to settle a score like a man.
I would recommend putting all your thoughts together, then dumping them all out into one solidified stool.
-Shoeless In SC
Can anybody think of the “tweets” that this twerp named Oney would spill the day (If any) that KW fires Guillen? He probably also knows some confidences KW will not be happy to see going public. The funny thing here is that this twerp suggests Bobby Jenks to be a man when he, himself, acts so immaturely. Oney’s behavior is very immature. I would expect a girl of 12 to act like this after the boy she fancies goes with another…..but this Oney….pffffft….
I don't care if he's a grown man or not
Ozzie needs to demand his son shut the hell up. I find it doubtful that the little twerp wouldn’t if forcefully directed.
Does UZR take into consideration the JumpThrow?
by Tdogg on Dec 29, 2010 8:09 AM CST via mobile reply actions
This.
Your 2011 Chicago White Sox: Donkey Kong!!!
by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Dec 29, 2010 10:42 AM CST up reply actions
Apparently you have limited experience with entitled children..
by Grinder in Training on Dec 29, 2010 10:45 AM CST up reply actions
i was married to one
Does UZR take into consideration the JumpThrow?
by Tdogg on Dec 29, 2010 11:04 AM CST up reply actions 5 recs
and with things involving money
she did whatever her mom told her.
Does UZR take into consideration the JumpThrow?
Hmm.. that doesn't show up anywhere on my Was it a Good Day flow chart..
by Grinder in Training on Dec 29, 2010 11:06 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
awesome
lol. But a little too much. RR. Still laughing though.
Does UZR take into consideration the JumpThrow?
Ha.. damn was hoping since I only made it a link, wouldn't be too RRish.
I’ll figure out the new regime’s rules eventually.
by Grinder in Training on Dec 29, 2010 11:10 AM CST up reply actions
Was? Hm. So you've never seen that cordless hand saw before in your life, huh?
Take your whosh like a man, dammit.
by RWShow on Oct 28, 2010 10:33 PM EDT
by Shoeless In SC on Dec 29, 2010 12:10 PM CST up reply actions
i found your comment funny, but it seems odd to recommend it. i'm guessing you wouldn't recommend it.
Some people get so rich they lose all respect for humanity. That's how rich I want to be.
I get your point though
I just don’t think up to this point Ozzie really has tried to put his foot down. I’d like to believe that if he did things would be a little different. I mean I don’t think Oney shuts up completely but he curbs it away from some of the personal stuff.
Does UZR take into consideration the JumpThrow?
Possible..
I guess with the examples I’ve dealt with like Oney in real life though, there’s no way that’s the case. I mean they fired him, that’s a pretty strong statement.
In the heat of the moment, when a guy like this, who can’t control his emotions gets upset, the last thing he is thinking about is how it’s going effect his dad’s career. He’s pissed off, and not thinking clearly, that’s why you can’t let him be in a position to make these statements in the first place. Keep him away from the team.
I just have a problem with judging Ozzie based on what his kid does. As a parent, I’ve seen it first hand, there’s only so much you can do when your kid doesn’t give a shit or think clearly. Some people just don’t understand responsibility or how their actions will effect someone else, and there just isn’t much a parent can do.
by Grinder in Training on Dec 29, 2010 11:16 AM CST up reply actions
Wait, you have kids? For some reason I can't picture that.
Also, I agree with this sentiment. Oney is an entitled twat and unless Ozzie straight up beats the shit out of him and sends him to Venezuela there’s not much he can do. People like him don’t understand how their actions affect others.
by Ozzie Montana on Dec 29, 2010 11:18 AM CST up reply actions
I don't have kids... explained my opinion to Tdogg in an email.
If you want I can forward it.
I meant first hand, as in seeing a parent who is helpless to stop their kid from being an idiot.
by Grinder in Training on Dec 29, 2010 11:25 AM CST up reply actions
Rereading that.. I now understand the confusion
Clearly that was worded poorly. I just mean that I’ve seen up close how little a parent can do to keep certain kids in line.
by Grinder in Training on Dec 29, 2010 11:31 AM CST up reply actions
You can decuide not to tell your idiot kid secrets or restrict said idiot kid's access to these secrets.
"'This is an issue Ozzie Guillen obviously feels very passionately about. Ozzie certainly has his own experiences as a player, coach and manager, and is entitled to his own opinions, but the Chicago White Sox believe his views are incorrect.'' - (What should be the) White Sox official statement (on the DH issue and coveting speed over OPS)
They aren't secrets..
I’d be very surprised if he wasn’t there when these things went down. If it’s just Ozzie feeding him information, clearly that’s a problem, I just doubt that is the case.
by Grinder in Training on Dec 29, 2010 12:19 PM CST up reply actions
I don't know. I imagine things like marital problems are discussed behind closed doors with a manager sans kid.
Relationship issues are hardly common knowledge in my workplace.
"'This is an issue Ozzie Guillen obviously feels very passionately about. Ozzie certainly has his own experiences as a player, coach and manager, and is entitled to his own opinions, but the Chicago White Sox believe his views are incorrect.'' - (What should be the) White Sox official statement (on the DH issue and coveting speed over OPS)
While I'm out now, military baracks and the aviation hangars had a very clubhouse atmoshpere to them.
You knew most of everybody’s business and opinions on just about everything. Marital problems stayed in the closet though unless the wife showed up to make it public.
"'This is an issue Ozzie Guillen obviously feels very passionately about. Ozzie certainly has his own experiences as a player, coach and manager, and is entitled to his own opinions, but the Chicago White Sox believe his views are incorrect.'' - (What should be the) White Sox official statement (on the DH issue and coveting speed over OPS)
I guess I was focusing on this one.
“u cried in the managers office bc u have problems now u go and talk bad about the sox after they protected u for 7 years ungrateful”
"'This is an issue Ozzie Guillen obviously feels very passionately about. Ozzie certainly has his own experiences as a player, coach and manager, and is entitled to his own opinions, but the Chicago White Sox believe his views are incorrect.'' - (What should be the) White Sox official statement (on the DH issue and coveting speed over OPS)
i'm sure a lawyer, doctor, mailman, carpenter, bartender,plumber......
has never seen their co-worker leaving the bar with someone who wasn’t his wife.
If is is one handed shitting. by winningugly
So a lawyer, doctor, mailman, carpenter, bartender, and plumber walk into a bar...
Take your whosh like a man, dammit.
by RWShow on Oct 28, 2010 10:33 PM EDT
by Shoeless In SC on Dec 29, 2010 7:06 PM CST up reply actions
yes it is. he would never hang out with a lawyer.
If is is one handed shitting. by winningugly
by mick10 on Dec 29, 2010 8:15 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
that's is true but also not really
I am of an opinion that at the core any workplace is the same (I actually looked at this situation as if one of our vice-pres sons was dissing ex employee on his twitter and how it would feel).
It doesn’t matter if you are a GM of a ball club, vice president of some company, or in lower levels a doctor, an engineer, etc. You are dealing with people. People are the same every where. There is cheating, drinking, gossiping, name calling, hard workers, jealous types, lazy fucks, religious nuts and they all bring similar attitudes to work.
I see this attitude often and I think it is not true, people are more or less the same across all the professions. Now public exposure is different and it causes many more problems, but in private circles it is all the same.
Taking a walk in a donkey park listening to the wind of change
Back to back uses of the word "twerp"
You don’t see that everyday!
Reporter: I was wondering if at any point in my lifetime the Cubs weren't going to be run by a guy who didn't immediately remind me of failure, confusion, or imminent death
Tweet, Twitter, Twerp...
seems logical…
"You People Disgust Me" - TAEG
by DrEmilioLizardo on Dec 29, 2010 10:59 AM CST up reply actions
Tweet,Twerp,Twitter,Tosser surely?.
Davie Wilson
"how bout them cowboys"!!!
by scotscowboyfan on Dec 29, 2010 5:51 PM CST up reply actions
I would have gone with twat or twit... but tosser is still appropriate.
"You People Disgust Me" - TAEG
by DrEmilioLizardo on Dec 29, 2010 9:58 PM CST up reply actions
It may not be on Ozzie like you think
Oney is a former Sox employee and had access to the clubhouse not only then, but as a family member for many years. Most of this stuff he probably saw first hand.
I don’t believe that Ozzie told Oney all of these things, I think he witnessed them first hand.
That said, Ozzie needs to take the kid to the woodshed and paddle the crap out of him. He’s not only made the organization look bad, he’s endangered his father’s job.
Good point, agree with the woodshed too.
biceps-deep in fungible pumpkins.
by homesickalien on Dec 29, 2010 10:48 AM CST up reply actions
Nepotism is part of Chicago culture
or at least, I’ve found it to be more tolerated in Chicago than other parts of the country. So my feeling is this will blow over pretty quickly. Ozzie/KW/JR’s loyalty to family has its good side, too – think about the players who, acknowledged to be part of the “family”, get deals the brain might disagree with but the heart is in favor of (Buehrle, Konerko). Dealing with Oney, who obviously doesn’t take after Ozzie in the “crazy like a fox” department, is one of the bad sides.
It’s not like damaging information doesn’t come out of other clubhouses – I’d say the difference with the White Sox is it isn’t anonymous where the info came from.
Anyway if this really became a problem with the players I think they could just suspend Oney’s access to the clubhouse for a while, which while mostly a symbolic gesture, might get the point across.
What the sox can do
1. Tell Ozzie to silence his kid, and make clear that he’ll be gone after this year (and perhaps sooner) if he fails to do so.
2. Ozzie needs to apologize to PUBLICLY to Bobby Jenks for this. He should not address the validity of his son’s accusations, only acknowledge that his son has no place spilling anybody’s personal life to the public.
3. Ban Oney from spring training, dugout. and all Sox property, so he has no direct access to new information.
4. Ozzie needs to shut up about players’ personal stuff around his son.
Ozzie won’t like any of these ideas, and will see them all as an affront to family loyalty, but Ozzie needs to understand that a big part of a father’s role is to teach his son how to be a respectable man, even if the son doesn’t like it.
Absolutely disgusting,
this little twerp single handily is making this organization look like a class-less fun house. The entire club should be ashamed. Even though this really has nothing to do with him, I would like to see Jerry step out and apologize to Bobby today.
2011 WhiteSox Baseball: we're all in
On a different note
If what goofball says is true (and a lot probably is) I sincerely hope Bobby is continuing to get the help he needs. I do think the White Sox and Ozzie did a decent job protecting him. Boston can get ugly if things don’t work out.
You helped my team win a world series bud. Nothing will make me forget that.
Does UZR take into consideration the JumpThrow?
You're right. All the clam chowder and Sam Adams he can stand. He's going to need his own zip code soon.
Take your whosh like a man, dammit.
by RWShow on Oct 28, 2010 10:33 PM EDT
by Shoeless In SC on Dec 29, 2010 9:03 AM CST up reply actions
Yeah, like the psychologist from "Good Will Hunting"
I would recommend putting all your thoughts together, then dumping them all out into one solidified stool.
-Shoeless In SC
Agreed about Boston..
They have to be a bit concerned when realizing he’s sensitive about playing on the South Side. The fans there are probably tougher than the fans here. If anything, he got the benefit of the doubt here winning a world series, he has to start all over there.
by Grinder in Training on Dec 29, 2010 9:15 AM CST up reply actions
Indeed. If he had trouble here, how's he going to feel after blowing saves against the Yankees on ESPN every three weeks?
"My role hads not changed: Old punching bag." -winningugly
If Oney saw all of this first hand..
I’m not really sure what the Sox can do? If it is true, and Oney did see it, well.. maybe Bobby should stop being a jackass around a guy with a big mouth. I guess they can make a statement that we don’t condone what Oney did and that he doesn’t represent the White Sox, but that doesn’t really accomplish much.
What Oney did was completely unacceptable, but I just don’t know if there is anything the White Sox can do for someone who is no longer on their payroll. He’ll do whatever he wants now, as he’s repeatedly shown, since he was fired, he doesn’t really have to answer to anyone.
Ozzie can tell his son to shut up going forward behind closed doors, but the kid clearly doesn’t listen, he’s in his 20’s, he’s not 12, he can’t force him to do anything. Other than that, keeping him away from the players in the future is really the only thing you can do to prevent this going forward, unless they decide to fire Ozzie, which probably won’t help things either.
Some people are just idiots.. if my father had to answer for my mid 20’s dumbass brother’s actions, he’d have been fired a long time ago. Some kids just don’t get it and never will, and to hold the father or the father’s employer accountable for the kid’s actions isn’t always practical.
by Grinder in Training on Dec 29, 2010 9:09 AM CST reply actions
Last I checked Ozzie is relatively rich
and his son is still on his father’s “tit”. No I think there is plenty Ozzie could do if he really forced it. Ozzie has made statements in the past of his son’s right to “free” speech. That’s over. His son is screwing with his livelihood. Methinks a forceful latin dad talk will shut Oney’s ass up.
Does UZR take into consideration the JumpThrow?
I know he's his father's son
and has the traits but junior doesn’t quite have the checking account papa has to tell his boss to go fuck off.
Does UZR take into consideration the JumpThrow?
Plenty of rich kid's do stupid things.
I really doubt a hothead like Oney is thinking about his checking account when he was spouting off on twitter. If he was calm enough to think about that, I’m sure he would have been calm enough to realize how stupid it was in general.
by Grinder in Training on Dec 29, 2010 9:54 AM CST up reply actions
i think what the white sox can do
is fire ozzie if he can’t get oney to shut it. i find this situation to be pretty terrible. it’s going to be interesting to see how the sox deal with it publicly.
"when the seagulls follow the trawler, it's because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea." ~~cantona
This idea that a dad can just make their kid be quiet is silly.
Oney is a grown man, Ozzie can’t force him to do anything. If he’s anywhere near as stubborn or thickheaded as his father, I find it hard to believe there is much Ozzie can do.
The mistake was letting Oney work there or be near the players in the first place. Firing Ozzie now doesn’t do anything to fix that problem, and most likely, makes your team worse when you are trying to win a championship.
Keep him away from the players in the future and move on. Only thing you can do, it’s unfortunate, but unless he’s lying about what happened, I don’t see a better way to handle it.
by Grinder in Training on Dec 29, 2010 9:59 AM CST up reply actions
Not really.
Take your whosh like a man, dammit.
by RWShow on Oct 28, 2010 10:33 PM EDT
by Shoeless In SC on Dec 29, 2010 12:21 PM CST up reply actions
only works if,
daddy stops telling tales.
Davie Wilson
"how bout them cowboys"!!!
by scotscowboyfan on Dec 29, 2010 5:53 PM CST up reply actions
Oney has many contacts and sources
Take your whosh like a man, dammit.
by RWShow on Oct 28, 2010 10:33 PM EDT
by Shoeless In SC on Dec 29, 2010 5:58 PM CST up reply actions
Its not silly if you respect your father
I’d never put my father’s job, or any other family member’s for that matter, in jeopardy. If the kid has any respect for his father, he’ll shut his damn mouth.
by MissE on Dec 29, 2010 10:03 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Why is it assumed he does?
He’s obviously not you. He’s proven time and time again he doesn’t have good judgment, what you or most other people would do is irrelevant. Well it’s nice to assume we all play by the same rules, we don’t. Oney clearly does things his own way, and just look at who his father is, I don’t know why anyone would be surprised by that.
by Grinder in Training on Dec 29, 2010 10:07 AM CST up reply actions
This....
You have to be a major jerkoff to know that this is going to bring heat to your dad and the guy who your dad calls his “father”- Reinsdorf…..
If ozzie can’t get his own kid to shut up.. there is something wrong there. I’m 31 years old… if i was going on and on constantly and my old man was like “hey dickhead shut the fuck up”… id have enough respect to do it.
Kenwo4life=ratings
He is a major jerkoff though, we all know this.
Just because you would have enough respect to do it, doesn’t mean other people would. Who cares how much respect KenWo has for his father? It has no bearing on what this shithead would do. Oney Guillen is clearly an ignorant fool, a scolding from pops isn’t going to change that.
I may just be biased because as I mentioned above, I have a brother who just has no clue about respect or any sense of responsibility, and is a lot like Oney in some ways. There are some people out there who just don’t give a shit, it would be laughable to me if someone suggested my father should just put him in his place, as if that would change him.
What is practical for one family or one son, may have no bearing on what another kid is going to do. It’s neat you think he should have respect for his elders, but it’s just not the case some times. Some people are just assholes who don’t get it, Oney Guillen is one of them.
by Grinder in Training on Dec 29, 2010 10:43 AM CST up reply actions
i understand that...
but the guillens have always (at least publicly) come across as a solid family unit… i just find it crazy that this goof would jeopardize his fathers job….. and it probably doesn’t look very appealing to future employers either.
Kenwo4life=ratings
He's an idiot..
Do you really think Oney was thinking about his career or his father’s when he posted this? I’m sure he does want to do right by his father, but in the end, he’s going to let his emotions get the best of him, as he has done, time and again.
by Grinder in Training on Dec 29, 2010 10:48 AM CST up reply actions
Just like his father.
Your 2011 Chicago White Sox: Donkey Kong!!!
by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Dec 29, 2010 10:51 AM CST up reply actions
Really?
As much I’ve disliked Ozzie at times, he tends to take the pressure off the players, not throw them into the fire. I suppose FNS might be an exception, but at least the vitriol was baseball related. Ozzie may be emotional, but he’s not an idiot. This Oney stuff is just egregious.
"My role hads not changed: Old punching bag." -winningugly
Well, Ozzie does let his emotions get in the way (Mariotti, 2010, Arod, Maggs, etc)
Ozzie isn’t this stupid by any means, but it’s not that hard to see where Oney gets this "I can say virtually anything I want’’ stuff from.
Your 2011 Chicago White Sox: Donkey Kong!!!
by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Dec 29, 2010 5:30 PM CST up reply actions
well i'm an idiot that flies off the handle sometimes....
but damn you gotta know where the line is and not cross it. that line usually is before you get into personal matters/clubhouse business.
Kenwo4life=ratings
An dodn't forget, Oney was sitting and tweeting, not flying off at the mouth.
There’s a certain amount of contemplation required in typing that isn’t in discussion. Granted, people still tweet and post stuff they will regret, but there is a lot more time to think it through in text.
"'This is an issue Ozzie Guillen obviously feels very passionately about. Ozzie certainly has his own experiences as a player, coach and manager, and is entitled to his own opinions, but the Chicago White Sox believe his views are incorrect.'' - (What should be the) White Sox official statement (on the DH issue and coveting speed over OPS)
He's like 25..
He can probably text nearly as quickly as he can talk if he’s anything like anyone else near my age.
by Grinder in Training on Dec 29, 2010 12:54 PM CST up reply actions
If I can somehow manage to post mostly coherent stuff when I completely wasted here,
Oney can think for just a second before he hits send.
busy weaving laurel wreath for k dawg and JR. These guys are straight up gangsta this year. -LT_sox_fan on Dec 15, 2010
by South Side Expat on Dec 29, 2010 3:31 PM CST up reply actions
maybe i didn't phrase it correctly.
what i meant was if oney doesn’t shut it, ozzie’s going to have to go. this is unacceptable in the extreme.
and like i said, it’s going to be interesting to see what they say about this publicly. we’ll never know what goes on behind closed doors. (unless oney decides to twitter his version of it)
"when the seagulls follow the trawler, it's because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea." ~~cantona
Ban Oney from the players..
They already fired him, I’m not going to judge Ozzie Guillen based on what his dumbass son does.
by Grinder in Training on Dec 29, 2010 10:50 AM CST up reply actions
Might be an issue with existing friendships
Although if Freddy’s gone and Andruw’s gone, two of his closest are out the door.
THIS NEW ARRANGEMENT SHOULD BE POOTY GOO
by Jim Margalus on Dec 29, 2010 10:52 AM CST up reply actions
I can't imagine it'll be a problem
I’d think most players at this point wouldn’t want him around after he said all this about Bobby, and the ones who do want him around would have to be pretty dense to not understand why he can’t be there.
Unless of course.. they were also fed up with him, and they’re actually happy about it, but I doubt it.
by Grinder in Training on Dec 29, 2010 10:56 AM CST up reply actions
Exactly - at some point, players seem likely to wise up and realize they can't/shouldn't trust this turd.
"It's like an elephant rodeo in there."
fooled them once on KW.
fool them twice now with bobby? i’d be watching myself around the guillens now. and i’m not sure that’s how players want to feel.
My hope is that there is (and players believe there to be)
a difference between “Oney Guillen” and “the Guillens”.
I would hope that they can, should and would trust Ozzie, despite what his abominable spawn says or does.
Sadly, I doubt this is the case.
"It's like an elephant rodeo in there."
De tal palo, tal astilla.
biceps-deep in fungible pumpkins.
by homesickalien on Dec 29, 2010 1:34 PM CST up reply actions
Exactly
This acorn is exactly the same kind of tree.
"'This is an issue Ozzie Guillen obviously feels very passionately about. Ozzie certainly has his own experiences as a player, coach and manager, and is entitled to his own opinions, but the Chicago White Sox believe his views are incorrect.'' - (What should be the) White Sox official statement (on the DH issue and coveting speed over OPS)
Ballplayers screw around, right?
Nothing Oney wrote changes what I think about Jenks. I wish him well, and hope he gets help for the baby behavior that is tollerated of celebrities.
by TasteeFreeze on Dec 29, 2010 9:19 AM CST via mobile reply actions 1 recs
Oney spews!
Ozzie has got to shut this kid up!! If he can’t do it, then Ozzie has got to go. Reinsdorf needs to tell this to Ozzie. Kenny is the middle man on this issue.
This is awesome.
THIS NEW ARRANGEMENT SHOULD BE POOTY GOO
by Jim Margalus on Dec 29, 2010 11:00 AM CST up reply actions
Gotta be green.
I hate Christmas. No baseball. by mikecws91
by winningugly on Dec 29, 2010 12:30 PM CST up reply actions
Just
Wow.
"Hawk Harrelson: Annoying even the hearing impaired": Teahenny Penny paraphrasing Chisoxfan1473
by NorthSidePaulie on Dec 29, 2010 9:15 PM CST up reply actions
this is worse than when it was kenny.
when it was kenny you could just chalk it up to the “kenny/ozzie feud”… this is a player- and a pretty successful one at that…. how would you like it if you were player B and you have done some stupid shit before…. and you see this tool ripping jenks. You have to think that you will be next. it creates a bad atmosphere before the season even begins. I know for a fact that players hang out with Ozzie Jr- I partied with Ozzie jr, Anderson and AJ before…. im sure somewhere along the line someone has done some stupid shit.
Kenwo4life=ratings
I agree
And my response was tongue-in-cheek. The organization’s inability — from KW to runts like Ozzie’s kids — to take the high road continues to baffle me.
But I agree with everything you said, and everything Jim said. For an organization that claims to be so leak-proof, or at least vigilant about the possibility of leaks (thinking of KW constantly claiming, through various media members, to float trade rumors to plug a leak), it must be frustrating to have the manager’s son airing a man’s dirty laundry out in such a public manner.
by Craig Grebeck on Dec 29, 2010 11:20 AM CST up reply actions
Oney is a petuant little child who needs learn some important lessons...
Perhaps by re-enacting the scene from “Full Metal Jacket” where Pvt. Pyle gets soap and towelled by the platoon.
"You People Disgust Me" - TAEG
by DrEmilioLizardo on Dec 29, 2010 10:35 AM CST reply actions
and let's not miss Jim's point
After Bobby’s interview the sox and Ozzie had a chance to look really good here. People would have seen him mouthing off on the team that won him the world series ring, made him famous, and most importantly very rich when his previous employer gave up on him. Oz or Ken could have responded with “well this is his opinion, and we respect that and we wish him the best”. End of story.
But now…
Taking a walk in a donkey park listening to the wind of change
It'd be real nice if this team was ever in the news
purely for baseball performance (or lack thereof) and not twitter crap.
Your 2011 Chicago White Sox: Donkey Kong!!!
by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Dec 29, 2010 10:44 AM CST reply actions
yeah this is just a bunch of bullshit.
i'm eager to see which of you is going to put his jacket down first so as to ensure the other’s dress doesn’t get wet. by craigws
Perhaps Michelle Ryan's foot could be inserted into Oney's mouth
"The game's out there and it's play or get played..."
by Air Raid Siren Stan on Dec 29, 2010 11:05 AM CST reply actions
I thought John Paxson choking his head coach would ruin the Bulls' reputation around the league but they still went on a FA bonanza, hired a coach with a very good reputation.
Or is it not a similar situation since Vinny del Negro was fired?
it doesn't count if the guy deserved it.
but its a good point.
Does UZR take into consideration the JumpThrow?
I think he was just doing Derrick Rose's dirty work.
Other players were impressed he stepped in for his star player. Boozer knew Kevin O’Conner would never stick up to Jerry Sloan like that. Only so many GM’s will fight a man for you.
by Grinder in Training on Dec 29, 2010 11:12 AM CST up reply actions
he got what he deserved for choking del negro...promoted.
If is is one handed shitting. by winningugly
though i agree with the sentiment, he did not get promoted.
Some people get so rich they lose all respect for humanity. That's how rich I want to be.
by MarketMaker on Dec 30, 2010 10:26 AM CST up reply actions
i don't think paxson actually does anything anymore.
Some people get so rich they lose all respect for humanity. That's how rich I want to be.
yawn. you're exhausting.
Some people get so rich they lose all respect for humanity. That's how rich I want to be.
He got promoted a year ago because he was too afraid to deal with the media.
by Ozzie Montana on Dec 30, 2010 12:26 PM CST up reply actions
John Paxon fears nothing.
Icewater in his veins as he knocks down championship winning shots from downtown.
If is is one handed shitting. by winningugly
This was my point earlier.
I hate Christmas. No baseball. by mikecws91
by winningugly on Dec 29, 2010 12:31 PM CST up reply actions
Oney is the Wikileaks of the White Sox organization
You may not like the messenger, but I’m sure everything he said is true. If you are afraid of the truth don’t be an a-hole. I doubt Konerko is worried about his dirty laundry.
This is a flawed analogy on many, many levels.
And if most baseball culture works, from Ball Four to Bull Durham to Juiced, still hold true, I wouldn’t assume any ballplayer is on the straight and narrow.
THIS NEW ARRANGEMENT SHOULD BE POOTY GOO
by Jim Margalus on Dec 29, 2010 11:38 AM CST up reply actions
Further, I'm not sure we should really expect them to be.
Spending that much time on the road is a recipe for bad behavior. Not absolving the rampant infidelity, but anyone who marries a ballplayer should do so with the expectation that things might not work out so well.
by Craig Grebeck on Dec 29, 2010 11:45 AM CST up reply actions
I don't assume anyone is on the straight and narrow whether it's a ballplayer, priest, lawyer or Brett Favre
I could give two shits what Bobby Jenks does in his personal life, but if he decides he wants to open his mouth and take shots at Ozzie he better be prepared to look in the mirror. Konerko probably has some dirty laundry but he strikes me as a guy who wouldn’t have made comments if he signed with the Rangers. Jenks has always struck me as an undisciplined guy with a million dollar arm and a 2 cent brain.
Baseball players should be allowed to discuss baseball matters
Without private information being released. That’s all Jenks did.
THIS NEW ARRANGEMENT SHOULD BE POOTY GOO
by Jim Margalus on Dec 29, 2010 12:06 PM CST up reply actions
I agree he shouldn't have brought up personal info, but the Guillen's have no filter and fly off the handle very easily
If Jenks expected a comment like that (re: Oz’s bullpen handling) to go unchallenged he is dumber than I thought.
I'm sure he expected Ozzie to say something about his weight management
but who would have thought Oney would send multiple tweets about his personal life. That was way out of line like answering a bullet with an ICBM.
"'This is an issue Ozzie Guillen obviously feels very passionately about. Ozzie certainly has his own experiences as a player, coach and manager, and is entitled to his own opinions, but the Chicago White Sox believe his views are incorrect.'' - (What should be the) White Sox official statement (on the DH issue and coveting speed over OPS)
In a bad 'scotsman faking an irishman' accent:
“one of his pulls a knife, one of yours pulls a gun. He sends one of yours to the hospital, you send one of his to the morgue! Dats da Chicago SSS Way!”
"You People Disgust Me" - TAEG
by DrEmilioLizardo on Dec 29, 2010 12:24 PM CST up reply actions
i'm still baffled how he did it so badly,
the accents aren’t that different. i guess he was just so locked in to his sean connery voice.
if this thread devolves into attacks on sean connery, then we're truly worse than oney guillen.
Some people get so rich they lose all respect for humanity. That's how rich I want to be.
don't worry, it was baffled admiration.
the man has the key to my hometown. ergo, we aren’t allowed to dislike him.
please don't call me ergo.
Some people get so rich they lose all respect for humanity. That's how rich I want to be.
by MarketMaker on Dec 30, 2010 10:27 AM CST up reply actions
its mr ego
i'm eager to see which of you is going to put his jacket down first so as to ensure the other’s dress doesn’t get wet. by craigws
by e-gus on Dec 30, 2010 4:41 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Blame the victim. That's healthy.
THIS NEW ARRANGEMENT SHOULD BE POOTY GOO
by Jim Margalus on Dec 29, 2010 12:37 PM CST up reply actions
But Poland dressed so provocatively, and was just sitting next to Germany all cozy and flirty...
so how can you be surprized when the Blitzkrieg shows up?
"You People Disgust Me" - TAEG
by DrEmilioLizardo on Dec 29, 2010 12:47 PM CST up reply actions
what strikes me as even more below the belt
is that bobby, according to the information we have, recognized his problem with drinking and has stopped. i’m sure we all recall the articles about that from the last offseason. and this is oney bringing up an episode, presumably from at least two years ago and with regard to something he’s ostensibly corrected. beat bobby up for blowing games. criticize him for being fat. just seems really dickish to go after him for a problem he’s corrected.
i may be wrong... but didn't he tweet
that he came in not drinking and then started again because he sucked?
they did not air out ur dirty laundry, u came to srping not drinking and then u sucked and started srinking again be a man
Kenwo4life=ratings
Definitely this.
But stupid + drunk = the kind of tactless moronic crap he was tweeting last night.
I’d be surprised if he was not posting under the loose-lipping liquid influence. Who knows.
biceps-deep in fungible pumpkins.
by homesickalien on Dec 29, 2010 12:53 PM CST up reply actions
isn't at least somewhat likely that Oney's either referring to some
time previous to his being shut out of the loop? getting fired should have made him persona non grata in and around the clubhouse, right?
Fireworks: Bang?
which makes the more scary version more plausible...
that ozzie is feeding it to him.
Kenwo4life=ratings
if that's true, Ozzie should be gone after this season
but no, i think Oney is probably still running on fumes from when he was actually close to the team.
Fireworks: Bang?
well maybe it isn't ozzie sr.
it could be ozzie jr… he has a pretty big mouth and is very close with the team
Kenwo4life=ratings
So maybe he is dumping all his old inventory of stories and has no new ones.
Meaning he has a lot more to tell. Muzzle that little bastard. Would firing Ozzie do that?
I hate Christmas. No baseball. by mikecws91
firing ozzie wouldn't muzzle him
but it would make the organization look better. though i am sure the guillens would spew everything they know when that day comes.
Kenwo4life=ratings
it could.
build it into a severance agreement. the white sox have excellent lawyers. the simple concept is punish ozzie’s pocketbook if he can’t keep his son’s mouth shut and fingers silent. reward him if he does.
Can you really do it after the fact?
He’s already fired.. at this point can’t he say whatever he wants?
by Grinder in Training on Dec 29, 2010 1:45 PM CST up reply actions
You can build it into Ozzie's package, perhaps.
Perhaps they could sue Oney for “trade secret” violations.
I hate Christmas. No baseball. by mikecws91
No..
Oney is an adult, unless Ozzie is feeding him directly, there’s nothing they can do. Or if he lied of course. The fact is he’s no longer an employee, at this point it’s too late to do anything to stop the kid.
Just keep him out of there from now on, it’s too late to undo what’s already been done. You can’t hold a guy accountable for what his adult son does. If Ozzie isn’t telling him anything, what can he really do?
by Grinder in Training on Dec 29, 2010 2:05 PM CST up reply actions
get who to agree.
it’s a severance agreement. by definition, it’s not currently in his contract. and money is the answer to everything.
so some kind of huge buyout
as long as the Guillens keep their mouth shut? you can do that?
Fireworks: Bang?
How big of a severance would it take for Ozzie to sign a non-disclosure?
"'This is an issue Ozzie Guillen obviously feels very passionately about. Ozzie certainly has his own experiences as a player, coach and manager, and is entitled to his own opinions, but the Chicago White Sox believe his views are incorrect.'' - (What should be the) White Sox official statement (on the DH issue and coveting speed over OPS)
That would include his family that is.
"'This is an issue Ozzie Guillen obviously feels very passionately about. Ozzie certainly has his own experiences as a player, coach and manager, and is entitled to his own opinions, but the Chicago White Sox believe his views are incorrect.'' - (What should be the) White Sox official statement (on the DH issue and coveting speed over OPS)
legally?
"The game's out there and it's play or get played..."
by Air Raid Siren Stan on Dec 29, 2010 2:40 PM CST up reply actions
this is the sort of thing that could keep Ozzie from getting
hired in the future, right?
Fireworks: Bang?
thats what i said earlier
its not going to look good to possible future employers…. i know i would have to think twice about hiring him whether you think he’s a good manager/attention magnet or not.
Kenwo4life=ratings
You think he'd get hired elsewhere anyway,
except by a team looking to boost attendance?
I hate Christmas. No baseball. by mikecws91
if they make some noise in the play-offs this year
absolutely he could get hired somewhere else.
i'm eager to see which of you is going to put his jacket down first so as to ensure the other’s dress doesn’t get wet. by craigws
i think miami would be a real possibility for him.
i think he’d increase attendance and interest for sure.
Kenwo4life=ratings
Seattle?
The hired a spent Griffey Jr. just to fill the seats.
"'This is an issue Ozzie Guillen obviously feels very passionately about. Ozzie certainly has his own experiences as a player, coach and manager, and is entitled to his own opinions, but the Chicago White Sox believe his views are incorrect.'' - (What should be the) White Sox official statement (on the DH issue and coveting speed over OPS)
seattle is the most disgustingly pc town ive ever been too.
Ozzie wouldnt fit in at all there.
i'm eager to see which of you is going to put his jacket down first so as to ensure the other’s dress doesn’t get wet. by craigws
Nope. Ozzie is strongly disliked among the Mariners fans to whom I've spoken.
biceps-deep in fungible pumpkins.
by homesickalien on Dec 29, 2010 2:13 PM CST up reply actions
Hey, if you can't make friends there,
Ozzie is certainly not popular.
I hate Christmas. No baseball. by mikecws91
they would if it created a bigger number in their bank accounts.
the mets would be another one i could see. new york would love him.
Kenwo4life=ratings
not under current mgmt
Alderson wouldn’t have come if he thought Wilpon would undermine him like that.
Fireworks: Bang?
true...
but lets say they have another putrid year or 2… and instead of being on page 2 in the sports section they are on page 10…. whats an easy way to create headlines? Bring in the crazy latin guy who isn’t afraid to say anything.
Kenwo4life=ratings
i'm not saying it couldn't happen
it only takes one desperate/stupid/overclever owner to think it’ll work.
Fireworks: Bang?
Ozzie will get a job,
but I’m not sure anyone – or him – wants him as a manager other than right where he is.
And, frankly, with his lack of corralling his kid, maybe he’s tiring of this job, too.
I hate Christmas. No baseball. by mikecws91
This is a great post, Jim. Agreed that Jenks (pretty understandably) has hurt feelings about leaving the Sox, and I did not think his original comment to Merkin was indicative of much more than that.
In fact, it was comparably mild considering how former Sox have departed from this management’s family.
Yet it was enough to awaken the vacationing Oneybeast, who proved once more that has no concept of tact; and demonstrates here a particularly amusing concept of “respect” as well.
Get this kid away from Sox business.
biceps-deep in fungible pumpkins.
Yeah I think Jenks has a right to be a little upset.
The big video montage at the last game of the season was telling. The Sox saluted Konerko and AJ on the scoreboard and they both talked to the fans. Jenks was notably absent from the whole thing.
i'm eager to see which of you is going to put his jacket down first so as to ensure the other’s dress doesn’t get wet. by craigws
Jenks was still under team control
If they put Jenks on the montage, they’d have to put Quentin, Danks and Pena on it, too. Unless they wanted to telegraph their intentions with him.
THIS NEW ARRANGEMENT SHOULD BE POOTY GOO
by Jim Margalus on Dec 29, 2010 12:05 PM CST up reply actions
ah good point.
i'm eager to see which of you is going to put his jacket down first so as to ensure the other’s dress doesn’t get wet. by craigws
but we all knew that arbitration wasn't really an option.
i'm eager to see which of you is going to put his jacket down first so as to ensure the other’s dress doesn’t get wet. by craigws
One of the comments from the thread
I’d assumed incorrectly Mauer’s money kicked in last year.
We went over this yesterday. The Twins don’t have $4-5M laying around from Crain/Guerrier leaving. The money that those two guys used to make is now going to Mauer, since his $23M/yr has kicked in.
You really need to look at the Twins payroll breakdown. They’re already looking at a $100M payroll WITHOUT Thome or Pavano on the team. There’s zero precedent for a payroll in excess of $110M.
There’s substantial economic reason to believe the reason the Twins have not already brought Pavano back is because they simply don’t have the money to do it at $10M+ per year.
Does UZR take into consideration the JumpThrow?
They have more money than you know.
I hate Christmas. No baseball. by mikecws91
by winningugly on Dec 29, 2010 12:32 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah I don't agree with all his assessment
but I did forget Mauer got a substantial bump.
Does UZR take into consideration the JumpThrow?
yah but they have always had money
and haven’t been willing to part with it til last year.
Kenwo4life=ratings
They have not always had "margin".
Target puts them in the “high margin” territory. They have more “spendable” income than you (and I) know.
I hate Christmas. No baseball. by mikecws91
by winningugly on Dec 29, 2010 12:41 PM CST up reply actions
They are already changing their spending habits.
The old man is dead. Things change.
I hate Christmas. No baseball. by mikecws91
by winningugly on Dec 29, 2010 12:45 PM CST up reply actions
i think it's way more likely
they know not to spend that kind of money for a reliever.
Fireworks: Bang?
Move Mark Teahen where? People did see his performance.
Also, I think one of our biggest holes is actually behind the plate. I don’t expect A.J. to bounce back or even stay at the level of production he posted last year. Castro is not a full time answer and Flowers doesn’t look ready. I’d love to move a pitcher and Pyrzienski while he still has a reputation to cash in on for a good catcher and let Sale earn his stripes as a fifth starter for the full year.
"'This is an issue Ozzie Guillen obviously feels very passionately about. Ozzie certainly has his own experiences as a player, coach and manager, and is entitled to his own opinions, but the Chicago White Sox believe his views are incorrect.'' - (What should be the) White Sox official statement (on the DH issue and coveting speed over OPS)
You are an awful human being.
AJ will be AJ. Bank on it, like it or not, he is among our most consistent performers (when tallied at the end of the year).
I hate Christmas. No baseball. by mikecws91
by winningugly on Dec 29, 2010 12:47 PM CST up reply actions
PS I dig the avatar.
Very timely.
I hate Christmas. No baseball. by mikecws91
by winningugly on Dec 29, 2010 12:47 PM CST up reply actions
Racing to Fangraphs... cause I recall him being quite sucky lately.
"You People Disgust Me" - TAEG
by DrEmilioLizardo on Dec 29, 2010 12:49 PM CST up reply actions
Most of last year, came back strong in August/Sept.
Which is why I said “end of the year”.
I hate Christmas. No baseball. by mikecws91
by winningugly on Dec 29, 2010 12:52 PM CST up reply actions
I am an awful human being
I still think A.J. has few good at bats left and I would like his sun to set on a different team. I love the guy and think he would be a great manager in the future, but I’d rather have a Suzuki, Napoli or Montero behind the dish this year.
"'This is an issue Ozzie Guillen obviously feels very passionately about. Ozzie certainly has his own experiences as a player, coach and manager, and is entitled to his own opinions, but the Chicago White Sox believe his views are incorrect.'' - (What should be the) White Sox official statement (on the DH issue and coveting speed over OPS)
Well, at least you are being realistic.
I mean, all 3 are quite available.
I hate Christmas. No baseball. by mikecws91
by winningugly on Dec 29, 2010 12:56 PM CST up reply actions
I bet we could Suzuki and then some for Floyd and Pierzynski
"'This is an issue Ozzie Guillen obviously feels very passionately about. Ozzie certainly has his own experiences as a player, coach and manager, and is entitled to his own opinions, but the Chicago White Sox believe his views are incorrect.'' - (What should be the) White Sox official statement (on the DH issue and coveting speed over OPS)
verb, plz?
"You People Disgust Me" - TAEG
by DrEmilioLizardo on Dec 29, 2010 1:05 PM CST up reply actions
Forgot the "get," but that was funny.
"'This is an issue Ozzie Guillen obviously feels very passionately about. Ozzie certainly has his own experiences as a player, coach and manager, and is entitled to his own opinions, but the Chicago White Sox believe his views are incorrect.'' - (What should be the) White Sox official statement (on the DH issue and coveting speed over OPS)
And we can get a lot for him.
More than Suzuki, but he would be my key piece with some relievers.
"'This is an issue Ozzie Guillen obviously feels very passionately about. Ozzie certainly has his own experiences as a player, coach and manager, and is entitled to his own opinions, but the Chicago White Sox believe his views are incorrect.'' - (What should be the) White Sox official statement (on the DH issue and coveting speed over OPS)
i'll still pass.
if youre trading floyd you gotta get an impact guy. suzuki is good but he’s not that.
Kenwo4life=ratings
strongly agree
"Hawk Harrelson: Annoying even the hearing impaired": Teahenny Penny paraphrasing Chisoxfan1473
by NorthSidePaulie on Dec 30, 2010 11:38 AM CST up reply actions
i haven't looked at his contract
but my first reaction to that is “ugh”. i continue to agree with kenwo.
Fireworks: Bang?
consistent
at being one of the most awful hitters in the majors. bottom five in pitches seen per PA, highest GB% and lowest FB/HR% of his career. none of these trends are a good sign. his only value is health which is almost negligible considering how anemic he is offensively.
funny, too, that catcher (and pitcher, maybe) is the only defensive position that you can evaluate from watching games on television. despite hawks praise, i see very little from aj that screams defensive wizard.
We've debated this ad nauseum.
And the stats are on display. He’s been signed, and my point is we will get AJ, not AJ-Lite, this year.
I hate Christmas. No baseball. by mikecws91
are you familiar with the standards for catchers?
he’s a bit below average for his career. what about that is “awful” ?
Fireworks: Bang?
AJ has 10-and-5 rights
Considering the uneven contract he signed, I don’t think he has any designs on leaving a contender.
THIS NEW ARRANGEMENT SHOULD BE POOTY GOO
by Jim Margalus on Dec 29, 2010 12:56 PM CST up reply actions
well hopefully
he has designs of getting HBP on the wrist. or falling over a bag like boozer. or coming down with a healthy case of plantar fasciitis.
aj is better than anyone we have to replace him.
just take a look back to ugod’s all decade of dump team post he did a while back…. as bad as aj is and as much as i am not really a fan of him… he’s a lot better than anything we’ve had at that position since i was like 14 years old.
Kenwo4life=ratings
Being better than abysmal isn't good.
I’m also not arguing how much A.J. has been worth in the past. I’m saying signs aren’t good for the future.
"'This is an issue Ozzie Guillen obviously feels very passionately about. Ozzie certainly has his own experiences as a player, coach and manager, and is entitled to his own opinions, but the Chicago White Sox believe his views are incorrect.'' - (What should be the) White Sox official statement (on the DH issue and coveting speed over OPS)
I would've preferred to grab another reliever with the cash
but its not a devastating move in my opinion.
i'm eager to see which of you is going to put his jacket down first so as to ensure the other’s dress doesn’t get wet. by craigws
It portends well that his best month was Sept.
He previously tended to fade badly at year-end.
I hate Christmas. No baseball. by mikecws91
eh, i try not to make too much of a month.
i just didn’t see anything that made me think his bat was done.
Fireworks: Bang?
your brain's not working
I'D LIKE TO APOLOGIZE IN ADVANCE FOR MY BEHAVIOR!! I DAYDREAM WITH THE BEST OF THEM.......
by pierzynskirules on Dec 29, 2010 1:51 PM CST up reply actions
I was waiting for that from you.
"'This is an issue Ozzie Guillen obviously feels very passionately about. Ozzie certainly has his own experiences as a player, coach and manager, and is entitled to his own opinions, but the Chicago White Sox believe his views are incorrect.'' - (What should be the) White Sox official statement (on the DH issue and coveting speed over OPS)
of course i will defend him at all costs
you keep forgetting valuabilityc
I'D LIKE TO APOLOGIZE IN ADVANCE FOR MY BEHAVIOR!! I DAYDREAM WITH THE BEST OF THEM.......
by pierzynskirules on Dec 29, 2010 1:59 PM CST up reply actions
The who with the what now?
"'This is an issue Ozzie Guillen obviously feels very passionately about. Ozzie certainly has his own experiences as a player, coach and manager, and is entitled to his own opinions, but the Chicago White Sox believe his views are incorrect.'' - (What should be the) White Sox official statement (on the DH issue and coveting speed over OPS)
ugh value
I'D LIKE TO APOLOGIZE IN ADVANCE FOR MY BEHAVIOR!! I DAYDREAM WITH THE BEST OF THEM.......
by pierzynskirules on Dec 29, 2010 2:02 PM CST up reply actions
Too many words got the best of you..
by Grinder in Training on Dec 29, 2010 2:06 PM CST up reply actions
no it didn't
I'D LIKE TO APOLOGIZE IN ADVANCE FOR MY BEHAVIOR!! I DAYDREAM WITH THE BEST OF THEM.......
by pierzynskirules on Dec 29, 2010 2:07 PM CST up reply actions
Sorry PR. I see Mauer, V-Mart, Santana and feel woefully short this year.
"'This is an issue Ozzie Guillen obviously feels very passionately about. Ozzie certainly has his own experiences as a player, coach and manager, and is entitled to his own opinions, but the Chicago White Sox believe his views are incorrect.'' - (What should be the) White Sox official statement (on the DH issue and coveting speed over OPS)
v-mart is not really a catcher anymore
mauer ehhh
I'D LIKE TO APOLOGIZE IN ADVANCE FOR MY BEHAVIOR!! I DAYDREAM WITH THE BEST OF THEM.......
by pierzynskirules on Dec 29, 2010 2:11 PM CST up reply actions
you goofy!
I'D LIKE TO APOLOGIZE IN ADVANCE FOR MY BEHAVIOR!! I DAYDREAM WITH THE BEST OF THEM.......
by pierzynskirules on Dec 29, 2010 2:18 PM CST up reply actions
awesome
The only glove he needs is a batting glove. - RWShow on Adam Dunn signing.
by blackoutsox on Dec 29, 2010 10:55 PM CST up reply actions
One word: Cialis. WU can attest.
Take your whosh like a man, dammit.
by RWShow on Oct 28, 2010 10:33 PM EDT
by Shoeless In SC on Dec 29, 2010 11:14 PM CST up reply actions
leave uncle WU out of this
I'D LIKE TO APOLOGIZE IN ADVANCE FOR MY BEHAVIOR!! I DAYDREAM WITH THE BEST OF THEM.......
by pierzynskirules on Dec 29, 2010 11:25 PM CST up reply actions
Won't somebody please think of the Children?
busy weaving laurel wreath for k dawg and JR. These guys are straight up gangsta this year. -LT_sox_fan on Dec 15, 2010
by South Side Expat on Dec 29, 2010 12:36 PM CST reply actions
Of The Corn!
I hate Christmas. No baseball. by mikecws91
by winningugly on Dec 29, 2010 12:41 PM CST up reply actions
I ROFLD so hard at that movie
The only glove he needs is a batting glove. - RWShow on Adam Dunn signing.
by blackoutsox on Dec 29, 2010 10:55 PM CST up reply actions
tyler flowers
can i get a feel on what people think about flowers? specifically colin, tdogg, larry and any other sabr-inclined folk.
my brief thoughts; his babip last year in the minors was around 60 points lower than his career avg. 35 PA at the major league level says absolutely ZERO about whether or not he can “handle” major league pitching. the only worrisome thing i see in his resume is his K% last year.
why does everyone think this dude is a total flop of a baseball player and someone we should be shipping out of town? given his past production, almost everything says fluke about his ‘10 performance. i’ll give a little and say, sure, catchers take longer to actualize, but for god’s sake…why does everyone think he is a bust already?
Not bust,
Just not ready. I would say the same about Jordan Danks and alot of it is K%. Isn’t that why Dayan had to go back to Charlotte too?
"'This is an issue Ozzie Guillen obviously feels very passionately about. Ozzie certainly has his own experiences as a player, coach and manager, and is entitled to his own opinions, but the Chicago White Sox believe his views are incorrect.'' - (What should be the) White Sox official statement (on the DH issue and coveting speed over OPS)
If Danks had some more pop, and took walks to go along with his K's, that'd be different.
A 3.68:1 K:BB ratio with 8 HR’s is pretty frickin’ terrible. The K’s aren’t bad if he’s walking and hitting bombs. Danks ain’t really doing either.
Take your whosh like a man, dammit.
by RWShow on Oct 28, 2010 10:33 PM EDT
by Shoeless In SC on Dec 29, 2010 1:23 PM CST up reply actions
the K's are bad because they suggest he can't follow certain pitches
that are going to be of a whole different grade if he gets promoted.
Fireworks: Bang?
I see what you're saying. But if he were hitting 30-40 bombs we wouldn't be nearly as concerned.
When he came up to bat and took some swoops, I felt I was going to be blown over by the gale force winds coming my way. I know barely more than your average woman when it comes to swing mechanics, but it looks like he’s swinging for the fences every time.
He’s got a bad swing combined with a bad eye.
Take your whosh like a man, dammit.
by RWShow on Oct 28, 2010 10:33 PM EDT
by Shoeless In SC on Dec 29, 2010 1:37 PM CST up reply actions
a guy who k's like that
is at least somewhat likely to be overwhelmed by an MLB fastball. he didn’t get any time in september for a reason.
Fireworks: Bang?
trying to hide his over-matchedness to preserve his offseason trade value?
I shant be misled a second time
We should've traded him after signing John to a long-term deal a couple years ago.
Take your whosh like a man, dammit.
by RWShow on Oct 28, 2010 10:33 PM EDT
by Shoeless In SC on Dec 29, 2010 1:43 PM CST up reply actions
i think it's more likely
that Ozzie wouldn’t throw out someone that would make him look bad.
Fireworks: Bang?
5. Tyler Flowers, C. 2010 MiLB line: Charlotte: .220/.334/.434. We come to the mystery. First, what happened to his offense? The simple answer is lack of contact. A 35% strikeout rate isn’t a good thing. But getting at the root cause is the key. Early in the season, there was discussion that an enforced change to his swing mechanics was the problem. Supposedly that was resolved by June – and he continued to not hit well. From watching video, his swing now looks longer than it did with Birmingham, potentially resulting in a greater susceptibility to fastballs. The second question is, what happened to his defense? After last season, Flowers received rave reviews for his improvements on defense. This season, all we heard was how his defense had regressed. It seems more likely to me that his defense hasn’t really changed much but its perception was colored by his offensive output in each season. ETA: Mid 2011. It’s hard to get a read on the thoughts of the organization on him. His lack of playing time in September makes one think they’re down on him and it’s certainly hard to hand a roster spot to an offense-first catcher with his line in AAA. He’s probably going back to Charlotte for at least a few months, where he’ll need to show more than he did in 2010.
http://www.southsidesox.com/2010/10/18/1726154/the-official-sss-top-eleven-white-sox-prospects
tdogg is sabr-inclined?
Since when?
Take your whosh like a man, dammit.
by RWShow on Oct 28, 2010 10:33 PM EDT
by Shoeless In SC on Dec 29, 2010 1:18 PM CST up reply actions
If you don't think I'm saber inclined
you don’t pay attention much. I just don’t think it the only thing that goes into the pot.
Does UZR take into consideration the JumpThrow?
I'm just messin' with ya. (going back to our earlier discussions)
I know you are.
Take your whosh like a man, dammit.
by RWShow on Oct 28, 2010 10:33 PM EDT
by Shoeless In SC on Dec 29, 2010 1:28 PM CST up reply actions
my opinion?
he stinks and will never be a full time starter on the white sox or any other major league club.
Kenwo4life=ratings
haha i see the worth in some of it
but flowers looks like a deer in the headlights…. and was a doper in the braves organization… and can’t hit in charlotte where i am pretty sure i could drop 10 bombs a year… add it up= he’s not gunna cut the mustard.
Kenwo4life=ratings
"Looks". "Doper". "Pretty sure".
Yep, your stranglehold on statistical analysis is apparent to all. ;)
I hate Christmas. No baseball. by mikecws91
by winningugly on Dec 29, 2010 1:28 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
As the most Interesting Man in SSS would say...
“Statistical Analysis? …. I dont know what that is….”
"You People Disgust Me" - TAEG
by DrEmilioLizardo on Dec 29, 2010 1:31 PM CST up reply actions
That's it!
“SSS Beer”. Thinking through label designs now…
"Hawk Harrelson: Annoying even the hearing impaired": Teahenny Penny paraphrasing Chisoxfan1473
by NorthSidePaulie on Dec 30, 2010 11:47 AM CST up reply actions
Well if you believe that they fucked with Flowers last year
then it changes things a bit doesn’t it? He seemed to do quite well before that and did OPS .993 at AA. That’s nothing to sneeze at.
Does UZR take into consideration the JumpThrow?
maybe... we'll see.
my opinion is “get what you can for him”. he’ll have us clamoring to sign sandy alomar again.
Kenwo4life=ratings
His AA numbers may not be close to generalizable.
He may not be able to make the leap to the next level.
I hate Christmas. No baseball. by mikecws91
larry?
AA is generally considered “just as” difficult as AAA, correct? if not moreso since a lot of the hot shot prospects jump from AA to the majors quite regularly.
I'm just saying -
with his talent level perhaps he hit his ceiling hard and can’t make the leap.
I hate Christmas. No baseball. by mikecws91
Geez can we see what the kid does this year for a few months?
I can’t wait to revisit this discussion mid year.
Does UZR take into consideration the JumpThrow?
I'm just taking the opposite side, dogg.
I’m in no hurry but am also glad we have AJ as reasonable insurance against T-Flow disappointing us.
I hate Christmas. No baseball. by mikecws91
This
"Hawk Harrelson: Annoying even the hearing impaired": Teahenny Penny paraphrasing Chisoxfan1473
by NorthSidePaulie on Dec 30, 2010 11:48 AM CST up reply actions
I'd say Triple-A pitchers are more skilled
Even if they lack stuff.
THIS NEW ARRANGEMENT SHOULD BE POOTY GOO
by Jim Margalus on Dec 29, 2010 1:56 PM CST up reply actions
i'd need to see pitch, or at least pitcher, breakdowns
AA guys probably have, on balance, as good or better fastballs than AAA guys. which, if that’s flowers’ issue, you would think it would have been identified in AA, too. if the issue is the breaking ball, either in addition to the fastball or by itself, i can very easily see why that would have manifested itself in AAA.
AAA pitchers generally have better command and control.
If a batter has holes in his swing a pitcher with good command will take advantage.
If is is one handed shitting. by winningugly
The question was aimed at "the more sabr-inclined folk".
Everyone can have an opinion.
I hate Christmas. No baseball. by mikecws91
all the more appropriate that i respond, right?
plus, i really like letting kenwo do the work for me.
Fireworks: Bang?
And as to my opinion on Flowers
I agree and think 2010 is in outlier. I’m pretty much on record for wanting him to get a full shot with Castro this year and I’m not anywhere as down on him as others. His K rate is a problem but he has shown patience in the past. I expect much better at Charlotte this year. Flowers minor league career is actually better than some pretty good catchers who are in the show now.
Does UZR take into consideration the JumpThrow?
he's replacement level
maybe worse. i think i said i think he could hit .240/.310/.340
Fireworks: Bang?
That's pretty frickin' terrible. That's like Podsednik with a wooden leg.
Take your whosh like a man, dammit.
by RWShow on Oct 28, 2010 10:33 PM EDT
by Shoeless In SC on Dec 29, 2010 1:31 PM CST up reply actions
Too soon? I'm sure he's pretty ripe right now.
ba dum tssssst
Take your whosh like a man, dammit.
by RWShow on Oct 28, 2010 10:33 PM EDT
by Shoeless In SC on Dec 29, 2010 1:44 PM CST up reply actions
Monty Stratton could kick ass with one though...
"You People Disgust Me" - TAEG
by DrEmilioLizardo on Dec 29, 2010 1:34 PM CST up reply actions
You are an old, old bastard.
(Jimmy Stewart was rad as Monte, wasn’t he?)
I hate Christmas. No baseball. by mikecws91
love that flick...
"You People Disgust Me" - TAEG
by DrEmilioLizardo on Dec 29, 2010 1:40 PM CST up reply actions
really?
with past performance at the AA level, you really think he’d OBP .310 and slug .340 at the major league level? i think the least generous MLE would give him at least a .400 slg%.
colin errs on the conservative side always.
Its his trait.
Does UZR take into consideration the JumpThrow?
but that's not even conservative.
juan pierre slugged .314 last year.
that's fine.
carlos pena hit .198 and OBPd .320 last year.
interesting
Oddly enough before TFlow’s derailment last year his minor career and track was “better” than Pena’s
Does UZR take into consideration the JumpThrow?
Im with you on the T-Flowers bandwagon, dogg.
i'm eager to see which of you is going to put his jacket down first so as to ensure the other’s dress doesn’t get wet. by craigws
and me
The only glove he needs is a batting glove. - RWShow on Adam Dunn signing.
by blackoutsox on Dec 29, 2010 10:56 PM CST up reply actions
c
i'm eager to see which of you is going to put his jacket down first so as to ensure the other’s dress doesn’t get wet. by craigws
by e-gus on Dec 30, 2010 12:55 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
More like
busy weaving laurel wreath for k dawg and JR. These guys are straight up gangsta this year. -LT_sox_fan on Dec 15, 2010
by South Side Expat on Dec 30, 2010 1:47 PM CST up reply actions
I wasn't gonna spend that much time on Greg Norman hats.
busy weaving laurel wreath for k dawg and JR. These guys are straight up gangsta this year. -LT_sox_fan on Dec 15, 2010
by South Side Expat on Dec 30, 2010 3:24 PM CST up reply actions
He'll get his walks
but his OPS may only be a bit higher than colin projects because he can’t really hit well.
I hate Christmas. No baseball. by mikecws91
But he fast!
Take your whosh like a man, dammit.
by RWShow on Oct 28, 2010 10:33 PM EDT
by Shoeless In SC on Dec 29, 2010 1:41 PM CST up reply actions
and he's like China
a Leader in Manufacturing
I shant be misled a second time
by Nordhagen on Dec 29, 2010 1:42 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Oh my God... So he's... Podsjuane(R)?
Take your whosh like a man, dammit.
by RWShow on Oct 28, 2010 10:33 PM EDT
by Shoeless In SC on Dec 29, 2010 1:51 PM CST up reply actions
dammit. I'm trademarking it. It's mine now, dammit!
Podsjuane®
Take your whosh like a man, dammit.
by RWShow on Oct 28, 2010 10:33 PM EDT
by Shoeless In SC on Dec 29, 2010 1:52 PM CST up reply actions
look, i'm of the opinion he'll be overwhelmed by pretty much
everything in the majors, at least at the moment. if you can’t mash the 90-91mph fastballs from the junkballers that populate AAA, you are in serious trouble. and he’s a catcher, which is going to make it all the harder to hit. i’d give him a bump if he were playing first.
Fireworks: Bang?
but why is one year at AAA
a sign of all things to come? can you really ignore all the mashing he did against whatever you want to call the pitchers at the lower levels? isn’t ignoring three years of excellent production voided by one year that screams of BABIP fluke?
Well I don't think its all BABIP fluke
His swing did change. Changing it back is not so simple in the middle of the season. But I agree I don’t think you just toss out all his previous stuff.
Does UZR take into consideration the JumpThrow?
oops
isn’t ignoring three years of excellent production voided by one year that screams of BABIP fluke sabr sacrilige*?
this is what i've learned watching prospects fail again and again
any hint of weakness will be exploited mercilessly. wishcasting is fun, but failing at all in the minors is way more likely to be an actual problem than bad luck. the ones who are going to make it are heads and shoulders above their peers.
Fireworks: Bang?
I pretty much agree with this statement
I think my difference comes from thinking “other” shit contributed to Flowers fall from grace last year.
Does UZR take into consideration the JumpThrow?
it's not like i think it's impossible
all i’m saying is the guy is probably replacement level this year. that’s actually a compliment given everything he went through.
Fireworks: Bang?
this is true.
but, as i’ve stressed many times, it is the rare prospect indeed who has an uninterrupted path straight up to the majors.
Sale, Beckham, Hudson, Viciedo, Morel
The sox are not afraid to push those they feel have ‘it’.
If is is one handed shitting. by winningugly
More of that bad White Sox scouting and drafting
right there. Add Richard too.
"Hawk Harrelson: Annoying even the hearing impaired": Teahenny Penny paraphrasing Chisoxfan1473
by NorthSidePaulie on Dec 30, 2010 11:57 AM CST up reply actions
btw, i've got the ZiPS MLEs through 2009
if you run a Marcel on that assuming his MLE for 2010 was .250, you get like a .290 wOBA, which is in line with my projection.
Fireworks: Bang?
this is one of those comments where you need to link to the "what is colin talking about?" page
after you create it, that is.
ZiPS is Dan Symborzki's projection system
MLE = minor league equivalency. it translates minor league slash lines into what they would have had if they had been playing the bigs that year. Marcel is Tango’s simple projection system. you take a weighted average of the 3 most recent years (5/4/3 from most recent to least) and then add an aging factor. Add 3% to the wOBA if you’re younger than 29, -3% if you’re older than 29.
Fireworks: Bang?
dang
missed the regression factor in Marcel…that would be more difficult to figure for the minor league aspect of this.
Fireworks: Bang?
but for the majors:
Marcel defines reliability as the sum of the weighted plate appearances divided by itself, plus 1200.
David Wright, for example, had 670 PA in 2010, 618 in 2009 and 735 in 2008. Multiply these by the appropriate weights (2010 = 670*5, 2009 = 618*4 and 2008 = 735*3) and you get 8,027. The player’s individual reliability score is calculated as:
r = PA / (PA + 1200)
So, the reliability for Wright would be 8027/(8027 + 1200) = .87. This means that we regress his weighted rates (1 – .87) = 13%. What about a player like Jason Heyward, who has only amassed 623 PA in the Majors? His reliability score would be 3115/(3115 + 1200) = .72, meaning we regress his rates by 28%. I’m not sure exactly where Tango derived the "1200" figure from—but this is the regression to the mean component used in Marcel.
http://triplesalley.wordpress.com/2010/12/22/marcel-and-forecasting-systems/
that link is brilliant. makes it really easy to do your own marcels.
Fireworks: Bang?
That's what you were waiting for all these millenia?
Take your whosh like a man, dammit.
by RWShow on Oct 28, 2010 10:33 PM EDT
by Shoeless In SC on Dec 29, 2010 3:38 PM CST up reply actions
I dont follow that last sentence
I would expect him to hit even better if he was at first.
The only glove he needs is a batting glove. - RWShow on Adam Dunn signing.
by blackoutsox on Dec 29, 2010 10:57 PM CST up reply actions
Argumentum ad hominem: classic logical fallacy, is an attempt to link the validity of a premise to a characteristic or belief of the person advocating the premise.
Thanks for the example Oney!
It's true, I'm a rageaholic. I just can't live without rageahol!
You must be a ex-SoxMachiner. All you guys are alike with your big, fancy words.
Not that that’s a bad thing, or anything.
Take your whosh like a man, dammit.
by RWShow on Oct 28, 2010 10:33 PM EDT
by Shoeless In SC on Dec 29, 2010 2:12 PM CST up reply actions
as soon as you make the first move
I'D LIKE TO APOLOGIZE IN ADVANCE FOR MY BEHAVIOR!! I DAYDREAM WITH THE BEST OF THEM.......
by pierzynskirules on Dec 29, 2010 2:20 PM CST up reply actions
burrrrrrrrrnnnnnnnn!
Some people get so rich they lose all respect for humanity. That's how rich I want to be.
by MarketMaker on Dec 30, 2010 10:09 AM CST up reply actions
Easy there, cowboy.
We’re still all becoming friends. SSS’ers take sarcasm well. We’re still learning from our new brothers and sisters.
I hate Christmas. No baseball. by mikecws91
Aaah, but I came here to kick ass and chew bubble gum
And I’m all out of bubble gum.
"'This is an issue Ozzie Guillen obviously feels very passionately about. Ozzie certainly has his own experiences as a player, coach and manager, and is entitled to his own opinions, but the Chicago White Sox believe his views are incorrect.'' - (What should be the) White Sox official statement (on the DH issue and coveting speed over OPS)
Giving with one hand
and taking with the other nets a zero, in my book.
And I am a King of sarcasm.
I hate Christmas. No baseball. by mikecws91
Sheesh. Tough room.
Take your whosh like a man, dammit.
by RWShow on Oct 28, 2010 10:33 PM EDT
by Shoeless In SC on Dec 29, 2010 2:34 PM CST up reply actions
Easy there, Trooper.
Don’t forget we take sarcasm well and must be learned otherwise.
biceps-deep in fungible pumpkins.
by homesickalien on Dec 29, 2010 2:28 PM CST up reply actions
We're all learning from each other.
I liken this to the Imperialist British coming and modernizing Japan, Hong Kong and China in the mid 1800’s.
These ex-SoxMachiners coming here with all this restraint, big words, and politeness… Next thing you know, we’ll be sleeping on real mattresses up off the floor, drinking tea and eating biscuits, playing horseshoes and cricket on our well-manicured lawns.
Cheerio, guvna!
Take your whosh like a man, dammit.
by RWShow on Oct 28, 2010 10:33 PM EDT
by Shoeless In SC on Dec 29, 2010 2:29 PM CST up reply actions
WU of all people should know, aside from all that, the Chinese benefited greatly from the British colonizing Hong Kong.
I mean… Opium… duh!
Take your whosh like a man, dammit.
by RWShow on Oct 28, 2010 10:33 PM EDT
by Shoeless In SC on Dec 29, 2010 2:42 PM CST up reply actions
But, taking away with the other hand,
anal rape in the boarding schools.
I hate Christmas. No baseball. by mikecws91
"Of all people."
Hey, is that an age crack? Dammit! Speaking of Dangerfield, you were?
Need me some ’retha Franklin right now.
I hate Christmas. No baseball. by mikecws91
It was an age crack. You should expect nothing less from me.
And what is it with you and anal rape? The can of worms you just opened in here…
Take your whosh like a man, dammit.
by RWShow on Oct 28, 2010 10:33 PM EDT
by Shoeless In SC on Dec 29, 2010 3:24 PM CST up reply actions
BTW, old man... Am I right to believe you got an all-terrain vehicle for Christmas?
I saw this old man the other day with one of these. I just KNEW it had to be you.
Take your whosh like a man, dammit.
by RWShow on Oct 28, 2010 10:33 PM EDT
by Shoeless In SC on Dec 29, 2010 3:37 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
While our man WU does occasionally leave himself open to Bronze Age and Methuselah era quips...
I respectfully submit that it is possible to occasionally let one or two of those opportunities go by without comment…
"You People Disgust Me" - TAEG
by DrEmilioLizardo on Dec 29, 2010 3:45 PM CST up reply actions
Possible. Yes. I've just had that picture stored for some time now and just been waiting for an opportunity to use it.
Decent joke. Poor timing. C’est la vie.
Take your whosh like a man, dammit.
by RWShow on Oct 28, 2010 10:33 PM EDT
by Shoeless In SC on Dec 29, 2010 3:48 PM CST up reply actions
Woah, woah, woah
Don’t you know most S&Mers aren’t French!?! Lets let everyone lick each others balls a bit more before we go and talk different languages…sheesh…
Two rights make one wrong
Pitchers and Catchers report soon... Times a wastin!
"You People Disgust Me" - TAEG
by DrEmilioLizardo on Dec 29, 2010 4:19 PM CST up reply actions
S&Mers? Where did that come from?
Take your whosh like a man, dammit.
by RWShow on Oct 28, 2010 10:33 PM EDT
by Shoeless In SC on Dec 29, 2010 5:29 PM CST up reply actions
BAHAHAHA
The only glove he needs is a batting glove. - RWShow on Adam Dunn signing.
by blackoutsox on Dec 29, 2010 10:58 PM CST up reply actions
Glad to see someone still appreciates what me and others do around here.
Take your whosh like a man, dammit.
by RWShow on Oct 28, 2010 10:33 PM EDT
by Shoeless In SC on Dec 29, 2010 11:16 PM CST up reply actions
Read your American History.
Douglas MacArthur modernized Japan single handedly, and he did it without cricket, biscuits or any Cheerios.
(please whip out those sarcasm detectors before commenting on this)
"'This is an issue Ozzie Guillen obviously feels very passionately about. Ozzie certainly has his own experiences as a player, coach and manager, and is entitled to his own opinions, but the Chicago White Sox believe his views are incorrect.'' - (What should be the) White Sox official statement (on the DH issue and coveting speed over OPS)
I thought that was Matthew Perry and the Open Door Policy.
(Which will be my cover band name.)
THIS NEW ARRANGEMENT SHOULD BE POOTY GOO
by Jim Margalus on Dec 29, 2010 2:39 PM CST up reply actions
Who are you covering?
"'This is an issue Ozzie Guillen obviously feels very passionately about. Ozzie certainly has his own experiences as a player, coach and manager, and is entitled to his own opinions, but the Chicago White Sox believe his views are incorrect.'' - (What should be the) White Sox official statement (on the DH issue and coveting speed over OPS)
I think I'd go with Commodore Perry
i'm eager to see which of you is going to put his jacket down first so as to ensure the other’s dress doesn’t get wet. by craigws
Would I get into trouble with the Commodores?
THIS NEW ARRANGEMENT SHOULD BE POOTY GOO
by Jim Margalus on Dec 29, 2010 3:10 PM CST up reply actions
Matthew C Perry's Open Door Policy was like:
- “Open your GD doors, or we’ll blow them open”
Take your whosh like a man, dammit.
by RWShow on Oct 28, 2010 10:33 PM EDT
by Shoeless In SC on Dec 29, 2010 2:48 PM CST up reply actions
Amazing what kind of negotations you can succeed at with a Naval Flotilla at your back...
"You People Disgust Me" - TAEG
by DrEmilioLizardo on Dec 29, 2010 2:53 PM CST up reply actions
this.
Take your whosh like a man, dammit.
by RWShow on Oct 28, 2010 10:33 PM EDT
by Shoeless In SC on Dec 29, 2010 3:27 PM CST up reply actions
I for one, am all in favor of more Latin on this site...
Minneapolis Delenda Est!
Veni, Vidi, Viciedo!
Semper Ubi, Sub Ubi!
Urbs in Horta!
"You People Disgust Me" - TAEG
by DrEmilioLizardo on Dec 29, 2010 2:48 PM CST up reply actions
Love the Viciedo
lmao
"'This is an issue Ozzie Guillen obviously feels very passionately about. Ozzie certainly has his own experiences as a player, coach and manager, and is entitled to his own opinions, but the Chicago White Sox believe his views are incorrect.'' - (What should be the) White Sox official statement (on the DH issue and coveting speed over OPS)
It will be my sig, when he earns the grass crown.
"You People Disgust Me" - TAEG
by DrEmilioLizardo on Dec 29, 2010 10:01 PM CST up reply actions
he is making no sense whatsoever.
"when the seagulls follow the trawler, it's because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea." ~~cantona
he really doesnt think he did anything wrong.
what a jackass.
i'm eager to see which of you is going to put his jacket down first so as to ensure the other’s dress doesn’t get wet. by craigws
and now he says
he probably won’t have to do something like this again. that’s comforting.
"when the seagulls follow the trawler, it's because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea." ~~cantona
the interview is up.
http://chicago.cbslocal.com/show/the-boers-and-bernstein-show/
"when the seagulls follow the trawler, it's because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea." ~~cantona
Lemme fanpost it.
THIS NEW ARRANGEMENT SHOULD BE POOTY GOO
by Jim Margalus on Dec 29, 2010 4:05 PM CST up reply actions
400 comments can't be wrong!
THIS NEW ARRANGEMENT SHOULD BE POOTY GOO
by Jim Margalus on Dec 29, 2010 4:14 PM CST up reply actions
Maybe we should give him a corner?
I think 3 times the ratings of a Kenwo…
Does UZR take into consideration the JumpThrow?
Snap!
.jpg)
(Tdogg-Kenwo remix)
"You People Disgust Me" - TAEG
by DrEmilioLizardo on Dec 29, 2010 4:31 PM CST up reply actions
yes. im on vacation. not working at all.
he has no perspective
The only glove he needs is a batting glove. - RWShow on Adam Dunn signing.
by blackoutsox on Dec 29, 2010 11:01 PM CST up reply actions
He's a child, plain and simple.
He has no concept of how the real world works or how grown ups are supposed to deal with emotions. Spoiled idiot how needs his phone privileges revoked.
Your 2011 Chicago White Sox: Donkey Kong!!!
by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Dec 29, 2010 4:30 PM CST up reply actions
Nothing new for Oney
This has beeen going on well before oney got drafted by the sox. He has been running his big mouth in local clubs here in Chicago only to be told to STFU and made to look like the “little” bitch that he really is. It’s one thing to say something and back it up. But Oney has never backed anything but his own mouth. His mouth has now officially made him a “marked individual” in Chicago. Fans, Players, and his “friends” can clearly see that NOTHING is a secret and he is not to be trusted.
Too late to be careful Oney, far too late. I just hope your father will come running to your rescue as you did for him in your ill timed tweets. But I highly doubt it.
all this oney and nobody noticed the real news of the day
from cowley
Late addition to Camp Cora – Chris Sale is now making an appearance. Players are serious this year folks.
sale is gonna join the 3B platoon!
Well if he can then field as well as Buerhle
Im all for it.
Does UZR take into consideration the JumpThrow?
That arm aint made to for throwing to 1st base. I think its a great idea to get him some work fielding bunts and defending himself after the pitch
Two rights make one wrong
This is all pointless. You don't need to throw someone out after striking them out.
Take your whosh like a man, dammit.
by RWShow on Oct 28, 2010 10:33 PM EDT
by Shoeless In SC on Dec 29, 2010 5:31 PM CST up reply actions
Oh. I've just been informed that sometimes you have to do that. Whoops.
Take your whosh like a man, dammit.
by RWShow on Oct 28, 2010 10:33 PM EDT
by Shoeless In SC on Dec 29, 2010 5:32 PM CST up reply actions
welcome all Sm'ers
dont be scared by this thread. I enjoyed the jumpstart in catcher debate.
The only glove he needs is a batting glove. - RWShow on Adam Dunn signing.
so wrong on many levels
though I do enjoy it
I'D LIKE TO APOLOGIZE IN ADVANCE FOR MY BEHAVIOR!! I DAYDREAM WITH THE BEST OF THEM.......
by pierzynskirules on Dec 29, 2010 11:26 PM CST up reply actions
Im glad AJ is back
The only glove he needs is a batting glove. - RWShow on Adam Dunn signing.
by blackoutsox on Dec 29, 2010 11:29 PM CST up reply actions
yay!
I'D LIKE TO APOLOGIZE IN ADVANCE FOR MY BEHAVIOR!! I DAYDREAM WITH THE BEST OF THEM.......
by pierzynskirules on Dec 29, 2010 11:33 PM CST up reply actions
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