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Rock of Ages: Does Tim Raines Deserve To Be In The Hall Of Fame?

 

This year's Hall of Fame Ballot was released recently.  It brings in some interesting new names; some deserving to get in (Jeff Bagwell), others not (Bobby Higginson).  But other than Bert Blyleven continually being snubbed, the biggest error that keeps occurring each year is the continued slaps in the face of Tim Raines.  Since becoming eligible in 2008 he has received 24%, 22.6%, and 30.4% of the vote each year.  This strikes me as absurd.

Star-divide

 

Before we fully dive into the stats, let's look at the four players that have been elected in since Rock's name first graced the ballot: Goose Gossage, Rickey Henderson, Jim Rice, and Andre Dawson.  No sane person could argue that Henderson did not deserve to be a first ballot HoFer.  The man was the greatest leadoff hitter ever, 14th all time in WAR (113.1), and is the all-time leader in runs and stolen bases.  The other three names range from fringe HoFer to "How the hell did he get in?".  Gossage (131st in WAR for pitchers) and Dawson (130th in WAR) are meh choices that are hard to get entirely worked up over.  Jim Rice is a completely different story.  If one was to compare him to some modern players that are in his WAR range, you begin to realize how truly absurd it is that he gets to be immortalized mostly because he played for the Boston Red Sox.  Jose Canseco, Nomar Garciaparra, and Brian Giles all finish ahead of him.  Andy Van Sylke, Lenny Dykstra, and Chuck Knoblauch sit slightly behind him.  Hooray for being the 258th best position player ever!  Tim Raines sits at 81 with 64.9 WAR, a whole 23.4 WAR ahead of Jim Rice.  That's like adding Jim Rice and Johnny Mostil together.

Timraines_medium

 

And now onto the actual numbers.  Tim Raines is 5th all-time in stolen bases with 808.  The four players ahead of him (Henderson, Lou Brock, Billy Hamilton, and Ty Cobb) are all in the Hall of Fame.  The fun of this all is that Tim Raines was a better thief than all of them (except for maybe Billy Hamilton who played in a time were caught stealing was not a widely recorded statistic).  Raines stole at an 84.7% efficiency rate.  This compares very favorably to those of Henderson (80.8%), Brock (75.3%), and Cobb (80.9% even with seasons without CS data).  He may not have the raw numbers of the others, but he was much better at taking what he wanted.  Are you more of the slash-line stat type?  Rock put up a .294/.385/.425/.810 career, primarily from the leadoff spot.  He even hit 170 homeruns.  That's more than anyone else in the top 10 for career stolen bases list that isn't named Rickey Henderson.  Are you one of those strange people that won't vote for a player unless he won some awards or rings?  That's fine.  Raines was a seven time All-Star, won a Silver Slugger in 1986, and won a World Series in 1996 with the New York Yankees.

I know that if Tim Raines does make it into the Hall of Fame someday, that he won't be wearing a White Sox hat on his plaque.  Jim Thome won't be either, but he still played for our team and played well.  He doesn't deserve to go through with this crap at the hands of the BBWAA.  Bert Blyleven doesn't deserve it either, but this is the year he will get in.  A player doesn't magically get better the further they get from their retirement.  There needs to be another Montreal Expos hat on the wall in Cooperstown.  And Tim Raines needs to be wearing it.

Tim-raines-ap2_medium


Poll
Should Tim Raines be elected into the Hall of Fame?
Yes
330 votes
No
66 votes

396 votes | Poll has closed

Comment 66 comments  |  0 recs  | 

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Comments

Display:

typo on tim, sir. feel free to delete this after you fix it.

Some people get so rich they lose all respect for humanity. That's how rich I want to be.

by MarketMaker on Dec 3, 2010 11:10 AM CST reply actions  

balls

thanks

When I was a kid, I didn't want to be a doctor or a fireman. I wanted to be Super Mario. It's the most literal pipe dream I've ever had.

by U-God on Dec 3, 2010 11:19 AM CST up reply actions  

URLs live forever!

I shant be misled a second time

by Nordhagen on Dec 3, 2010 11:19 AM CST up reply actions  

If we're all playing editor...

I loved my 13st birthday party.

Reporter: I was wondering if at any point in my lifetime the Cubs weren't going to be run by a guy who didn't immediately remind me of failure, confusion, or imminent death

by Hazymania on Dec 3, 2010 11:21 AM CST up reply actions  

i accidently deleted the one at the end somehow

When I was a kid, I didn't want to be a doctor or a fireman. I wanted to be Super Mario. It's the most literal pipe dream I've ever had.

by U-God on Dec 3, 2010 11:28 AM CST up reply actions  

should he? yes

will he? who knows

Hope he’s not writing the 2011 White Sox Anal too. -Sox Machine

by Jack M on Dec 3, 2010 11:22 AM CST reply actions  

anyone voting no

should defend their argument. Raines is fangraphs’ 35th best OF of all time and 83rd best player, just ahead of Willie Stargell.

Fireworks: Bang?

by colintj on Dec 3, 2010 11:25 AM CST reply actions  

In fairness, it was kind of hard for ANYONE to see him in his prime.

Pre-internet and usually a Montreal team that didn’t warrant much interest for national (US) tv.
But this is why god created numbers! They can paint a picture long after the fact, and educate too!

Intoxicated with the wine of cloaking powers and the gin of banning authority since 2005.

by Chiburb on Dec 3, 2010 11:47 AM CST up reply actions  

God?

I thought it was the Arabs?

Reporter: I was wondering if at any point in my lifetime the Cubs weren't going to be run by a guy who didn't immediately remind me of failure, confusion, or imminent death

by Hazymania on Dec 3, 2010 11:48 AM CST up reply actions  

Well, yeah. But technically Africans: Egypt?

Intoxicated with the wine of cloaking powers and the gin of banning authority since 2005.

by Chiburb on Dec 3, 2010 11:51 AM CST up reply actions  

he played on WGN 18x a year

The whole NL was my favorite team against the Cubs, so I watched a lot of those guys.

I shant be misled a second time

by Nordhagen on Dec 3, 2010 12:05 PM CST up reply actions  

Gammons/Stark Debate It Here:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/hof08/news/story?id=3169953

Intoxicated with the wine of cloaking powers and the gin of banning authority since 2005.

by Chiburb on Dec 3, 2010 11:28 AM CST up reply actions  

love this aside by Stark:
(Hey, I need to introduce a quick aside: This is off-topic, but since I mentioned Gwynn, did you know Tim Raines reached base more times in his career than Tony Gwynn did — and that they had nearly identical career on-base percentages? And did you know that every eligible player who reached base as many times as Raines did, and had as high an on-base percentage as he had, is in the Hall of Fame?)

Hope he’s not writing the 2011 White Sox Anal too. -Sox Machine

by Jack M on Dec 3, 2010 11:31 AM CST up reply actions  

HBT's Case For:

http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/tim-raines-case-for-the-hall-of-fame/

Intoxicated with the wine of cloaking powers and the gin of banning authority since 2005.

by Chiburb on Dec 3, 2010 11:35 AM CST up reply actions  

For me, his prime didn't last long enough or was at a high enough level to be considered a HOF caliber player.

He will be up on the Fangraphs lists and such because he did accumulate so many wins. From age 30 on he was worth over 20 wins. But during those years, he averaged not much better than 2 wins above replacement. It is remarkable he played so many games for a guy who used his legs a lot, but I don’t think just maintaining a starter-level player for a long time deserves HOF recognition. I understand why the poll is lopsided and that good arguments could be made for his entry.

by 3E8 on Dec 3, 2010 12:34 PM CST up reply actions  

sox make minor trade with braves
jonmorosi Jon Morosi
#Braves have traded minor league pitcher Kyle Cofield to the #WhiteSox, sources tell FOXSports.com. Cofield is a RHP who began season as No. 24 prospect in #Braves organization. 4.47 ERA in 58 1/3 IP this year, mostly at AA. Cofield is currently on #Braves 40-man, so this could be to create a roster spot. We’re told this isn’t a major trade w #WhiteSox. Spoke with source who says #Braves will acquire a reliever from #WhiteSox for Cofield. Carlos Quentin not involved. Still trying to confirm. #MLB

by Ryno on Dec 3, 2010 12:12 PM CST reply actions  

not so minor anymore
Spoke with source who says #Braves will acquire a reliever from #WhiteSox for Cofield. Carlos Quentin not involved. Still trying to confirm. Scott Linebrink to #Braves for Cofield, sources tell FOXSports.com. #WhiteSox That’s the deal: Scott Linebrink to #Braves for RHP Kyle Cofield, sources tell FOXSports.com. #WhiteSox Linebrink will make $5.5M in final year of four-year contract. Not clear how much cash going to #Braves in this trade. #WhiteSox #MLB Linebrink had a 4.40 ERA in 52 games this year. He was better in ’10 than he was in ’09. #Braves #WhiteSox

by kujoth on Dec 3, 2010 12:18 PM CST up reply actions  

oh happy day!

Hope he’s not writing the 2011 White Sox Anal too. -Sox Machine

by Jack M on Dec 3, 2010 12:20 PM CST up reply actions  

awesome

should’ve waited a few more tweets before posting! great news, though.

by Ryno on Dec 3, 2010 12:20 PM CST up reply actions  

HOORAY!

The only glove he needs is a batting glove. - RWShow on Adam Dunn signing.

by blackoutsox on Dec 3, 2010 12:26 PM CST up reply actions  

This. Hells yeah!!!

Take your whosh like a man, dammit.
by RWShow on Oct 28, 2010 10:33 PM EDT

by Shoeless In SC on Dec 3, 2010 12:34 PM CST up reply actions  

omgomgomgomg

TS% = Thabo Sefolosha percentage. It calculates how much you can be like Thabo Sefolosha. That’s why Keith Bogans is at 70%.

by Ozzie Montana on Dec 3, 2010 12:37 PM CST up reply actions  

it's like that scene in the godfather

kw settling all the family business

by hoodlight on Dec 3, 2010 12:40 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

memorial! STAT!

I shant be misled a second time

by Nordhagen on Dec 3, 2010 12:25 PM CST up reply actions  

On it!

...and then some depressed fucked-cake eating.

by homesickalien on Dec 3, 2010 12:49 PM CST up reply actions  

yay he dies

more so

I'D LIKE TO APOLOGIZE IN ADVANCE FOR MY BEHAVIOR!! I DAYDREAM WITH THE BEST OF THEM.......

by pierzynskirules on Dec 3, 2010 12:26 PM CST up reply actions  

be respectful

I shant be misled a second time

by Nordhagen on Dec 3, 2010 12:27 PM CST up reply actions  

i know. the whole thing freaked me out

I woke to espn1000 and hearing about santo and having bad dreams. i dont like death and dont take it well

I'D LIKE TO APOLOGIZE IN ADVANCE FOR MY BEHAVIOR!! I DAYDREAM WITH THE BEST OF THEM.......

by pierzynskirules on Dec 3, 2010 12:30 PM CST up reply actions  

Can't wait to see how many $$ we shipped too.

Not that it seems to matter this year! Hee.

Intoxicated with the wine of cloaking powers and the gin of banning authority since 2005.

by Chiburb on Dec 3, 2010 12:30 PM CST up reply actions  

No. Object

The guy at the bank doesn't care how many trophies you've got!

by 67WMAQ on Dec 3, 2010 12:34 PM CST up reply actions  

Tim Raines

Runs from baserunning above average at 121 for his career is crazy, tied for second all time(as per B-R).

Also, the brick-shitter has shat his last brick…well, for us

by chiefgint09 on Dec 3, 2010 12:32 PM CST reply actions  

i fucking loved tim raines

great player. hall of famer in my opinion. the only guy better than him in his era was rickey. i was happy i got to see him on the sox (even though we dumped Ivan for him which made me sad)

Kenwo4life=ratings

by KenWo4LiFe on Dec 3, 2010 5:18 PM CST reply actions  

Tim Raines deserves it more than Ron Santo

but I dont think either one should get in.

"There's too many (bleeping) guys on the computer. It's simple. I say that. Pete Rose never watched a computer. Rod Carew never did. All those hitters, they go out and see the ball, hit it and move on." - Ozzie

by usualsuspect on Dec 3, 2010 6:47 PM CST reply actions  

I hate the cubs and every cub that ever wore the uniform

but ron santo was the best 3rd baseman of his era and belongs in the hall of fame. Raines was a one tool player. he was very fast.

If is is one handed shitting. by winningugly

by mick10 on Dec 3, 2010 6:52 PM CST up reply actions  

Then Raines has more than one tool, doesn't he?

EVERYBODY PICK US FOR 3RD OR 4TH SO I DINK WE DOIN POOTY GOO
Sox Machine

by Sox Machine on Dec 4, 2010 12:55 PM CST up reply actions  

if by more than one you mean two

well yeah…

If is is one handed shitting. by winningugly

by mick10 on Dec 4, 2010 2:44 PM CST up reply actions  

Rickey could rake too.

If is is one handed shitting. by winningugly

by mick10 on Dec 4, 2010 12:47 AM CST up reply actions  

smaller rake

If is is one handed shitting. by winningugly

by mick10 on Dec 4, 2010 2:44 PM CST up reply actions  

I'd rather use a baseball bat

The only glove he needs is a batting glove. - RWShow on Adam Dunn signing.

by blackoutsox on Dec 4, 2010 5:06 PM CST up reply actions  

Career .294/.385/.425

3 tools, without looking at gloves.

You, sir, are incredibly wrong.

X__Adam Dunn_________________

by RWShow on Dec 4, 2010 1:58 AM CST up reply actions  

This.

Take your whosh like a man, dammit.
by RWShow on Oct 28, 2010 10:33 PM EDT

by Shoeless In SC on Dec 4, 2010 10:44 PM CST up reply actions  

That picture is freaking me out, man.

"I was the nicest Hitler ever, pulling out chairs for old women and what not." -Rhubarb

by South Side Expat on Dec 3, 2010 7:27 PM CST reply actions  

Reached base more than one Tony Gwynn

Raines might get knocked off the ballot due to the massive load of players coming to the ballot soon (non steroid division even!), but I imagine he sticks around with 10-15% on the years where there’s 10 first ballot worthy hof’ers eligible and becomes the new Blyleven after that. That said he certainly deserved to be elected the 2nd or 3rd time around, but doubtful he gets elected prior to Greg Maddux, John Smoltz, Frank Thomas, Tom Glavine etc. He might get elected before the greatest player of all time though, good for him!

The world needs the Jedi now more than ever

by Carbiner on Dec 3, 2010 10:10 PM CST reply actions  

ken griffey?

The only glove he needs is a batting glove. - RWShow on Adam Dunn signing.

by blackoutsox on Dec 4, 2010 12:52 AM CST up reply actions  

great chart

i'm eager to see which of you is going to put his jacket down first so as to ensure the other’s dress doesn’t get wet. by craigws

by e-gus on Dec 4, 2010 11:28 AM CST up reply actions  

lol on the lol zone

"I never say one bad thing about those stupid fucking Cubs fans. Not a single word about those mother-shitting pieces of fuck"

by onlysoxfaninbasel on Dec 5, 2010 3:54 AM CST up reply actions  

It works!!

:)

...and then some depressed fucked-cake eating.

by homesickalien on Dec 7, 2010 10:28 AM CST up reply actions  

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