Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: Russell Westbrook and Kevin Durant's Post-Game 5 Outfits

Failure By Design: A Look At The AL Central Cellar Dwellers

It should surprise no true baseball fan that the American League Central will ultimately consist of two races next season.  While the White Sox, Twins, and Tigers fight it out for the crown, the Indians and the Royals will enter their third consecutive season of trying not to be the low man on the totem pole.  They tied in 2009, starting the bloodsport competition.  Last season the Indians somehow outlasted the Royals, grasping out to snag the coveted fourth place title.  And though this next season will surely result in the cities of Cleveland and Kansas City growing disinterested in baseball around August yet again, the future couldn't possibly remain bleak for both franchises for too much longer, could it?  Realistically, both teams should start trending upwards soon.  The question is which team will make it out of the depths first.

Star-divide

How they got here:

While the Royals have been a disappointing bundle of terrible since George Brett retired (discounting the 2003 season), the Indians were one game away from the World Series as recently as 2007.  How did they fall so hard, so fast?  As soon as the 2008 season started going down the tubes, Mark Shapiro decided it was time to cash in on CC Sabathia.  The trade unfortunately didn't work out quite as well as hoped, as Matt LaPorta still hasn't lived up to his potential and the other three players (Michael Brantley, Zack Jackson, and Rob Bryson) suffering from "Not-That-Good-At-Baseball" Syndrome.  This would lead to more shipping out of veterans, with some moves being much more effective (Casey Blake for Carlos Santana) than others (Cliff Lee for a handful of ick).  Cleveland declared themselves to be in full rebuild, establishing themselves as the Royals roommate in the basement for the next few seasons.

Current rosters:

Both teams are fairly lacking in this regard, but the edge easily goes to the Indians.  Shin-Soo Choo and Carlos Santana are streets ahead of any hitter on the Royals, though Billy Butler is nothing to sneeze at.  Joakim Soria is the best pitcher on either team and he won't even be on the Royals come August.  There is no reason to hold onto an elite closer when the team might not win more than 65 games.  If Moore was willing to trade Zack Greinke, he shouldn't hold back when it comes to the Mexicutioner.  Some contender will need bullpen help and pay out the ass in late-July.  The other three players mentioned should be in the division for the foreseeable future.  Butler and Choo are great young hitters who won't be eligible for free agency until 2014 and Santana is arguably the best young catcher in baseball (I will accept Buster Posey in this argument.  Matt Wieters does not count.).  The less said about the rest of their lineups the better.  The starting rotations are somehow worse, consisting mostly fourth and fifth starters.  Good thing the farm systems are strong.

The future:

The Indians may have better talent at the major league level, but the Royals have a much more well rounded farm system.  Cleveland's system has great pitching.  Alex White, Drew Pomeranz, and Jason Knapp all have the potential to be top of the line starters.  Joe Gardner and Kyle Blair are another two arms that could easily become solid innings-eaters in the majors.  They may have to ship some of this pitching out to get some more hitters, as no position players left in the minors project to be anything spectacular.  If Choo and Santana stay as productive, Lonnie Chisenhall, Jason Kipnis, and Nick Weglarz need only be slightly above average to make for a solid core group.

The Royals have stockpiled a ridiculous amount of talent down in the minors.  Mike Moustakas, Eric Hosmer, and Wil Myers should give Kansas City one hell of a lineup with or without Billy Butler still in it.  Alcides Escobar will provide plus-plus defense at short for years to come, essentially becoming the Elvis Andrus of the Midwest.  The current rotation is garbage, but that is going to change very quickly.  Danny Duffy, John Lamb, Michael Montgomery, and Chris Dwyer give the team four southpaws with at least B potential.  Throw in RHPs Jake Odorizzi, Aaron Crow, and Tim Melville and you have seven arms that look very frightening.

Verdict:

It seems like we've been hearing about how the farm systems for both of these teams have been on the verge of breaking out and catapulting their respective teams into extended eras of playoff chases.  If I had to put money on which organization has the brighter future, I would have to go with Kansas City.  This might be due to me now living in Royals territory, but I look at the depth of that farm system and don't see how Dayton Moore could mess this one up.  It seems too fool-proof.  But then again, it is Dayton Moore.

 

Since people were complaining about the recent string of "negative" articles, I decided to go with this instead of the pitching half of the Anti-All Star team for now.  Expect that post next Thursday, pending something awesome happening.

Poll
Which AL Central rival will finish above fourth place first?
Cleveland Indians
153 votes
Kansas City Royals
238 votes

391 votes | Poll has closed

Comment 154 comments  |  0 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Around SB Nation

Game 37: Indians 9, Mariners 3

May 2012 from Let's Go Tribe - 64 comments

Royals M.A.S.H Report

May 2012 from Royals Review - 16 comments

Horrible Batting Lines Update

May 2012 from Royals Review - 26 comments

Comments

Display:

I like Choo, and Santana will bounce back from his season ending injury

remember when everyone picked the Royals to win the division in 2009?

me neither

The only glove he needs is a batting glove. - RWShow on Adam Dunn signing.

by blackoutsox on Dec 30, 2010 12:20 AM CST reply actions  

Lonnie Chisenhall. That's a name I haven't heard in a while.

Dude got arrested his freshman year at SC for stealing dvds, video games, tvs, and computers. Then he transferred to some community college for 2 years. He was touted as one of the best recruits Tanner ever brought in. What a jerkwad. He didn’t even feel remorse for it either. He said something like he learned that he shouldn’t have gotten caught or something stupid along those lines.

I voted Indians before I read the entirety of the post. They have made better moves in free agency, and filling out their MLB roster than the Royals the past decade, and for that I give them the edge. These guys the Royals got, they’re going to be touted on every prospect list, but until the Royals show me they can spend money wisely and put it all together I’ll remain skeptical. If only 5 of their top 100 prospects (they’ll have like 8 in the top 100) turn out to be average to above average, that’s only 5 players. They’ll need at least 10 more to fill out a respectable lineup and rotation.

Take your whosh like a man, dammit.
by RWShow on Oct 28, 2010 10:33 PM EDT

by Shoeless In SC on Dec 30, 2010 12:31 AM CST reply actions  

good info on Chisenhall

He was on the fence as far as keeper or not for my minors portion of a fantasy team. I think you just pushed him back into the draft.

i'm eager to see which of you is going to put his jacket down first so as to ensure the other’s dress doesn’t get wet. by craigws

by e-gus on Dec 30, 2010 12:40 AM CST up reply actions  

Well, if you're drafting on character, you should push him back. But no one denies the talent is there.

That said, I think you can do better than Lonnie.

Take your whosh like a man, dammit.
by RWShow on Oct 28, 2010 10:33 PM EDT

by Shoeless In SC on Dec 30, 2010 7:48 AM CST up reply actions  

there arent a lot of 3b out there that project higher at the moment.

ive still got some time to decide.

i'm eager to see which of you is going to put his jacket down first so as to ensure the other’s dress doesn’t get wet. by craigws

by e-gus on Dec 30, 2010 12:13 PM CST up reply actions  

ill email you

i'm eager to see which of you is going to put his jacket down first so as to ensure the other’s dress doesn’t get wet. by craigws

by e-gus on Dec 30, 2010 12:32 PM CST up reply actions  

"They have made better moves in free agency"

I don’t know if they were that much better. What were the big signings from the Shapiro era, Travis Hafner?

Cleveland was successful this decade almost entirely with home-grown talent. The Indians have a ton of depth in the minors now, but the Royals have much bigger potential impact players. If Kansas City can avoid Meche/Guillen signings they will get there first, so I gave them the edge.

a VERY AVERAGE Sox Machine refugee

by big_fun on Dec 30, 2010 9:20 AM CST up reply actions  

Or Kerry Wood?

If is is one handed shitting. by winningugly

by mick10 on Dec 30, 2010 9:43 AM CST up reply actions  

that's a fair point

Doesn’t really seem like Cleveland did much with the savings, though. Lots of money spent on mediocre relief pitching and fourth outfielder types.

a VERY AVERAGE Sox Machine refugee

by big_fun on Dec 30, 2010 10:06 AM CST up reply actions  

could say the same for the royals.

neither team has been particularly impressive in their spending.

by larry on Dec 30, 2010 10:10 AM CST up reply actions  

sure

But if they were to be relatively even in that regard going forward (granted, a big assumption) the Royals could have an edge with the better system going forward. Obviously there’s a big question of whether they get actual ML value out of those prospects, but the same is certainly true of Cleveland, which has had plenty of player development busts this decade.

a VERY AVERAGE Sox Machine refugee

by big_fun on Dec 30, 2010 10:26 AM CST up reply actions  

What I'm getting at is, they threw big money, (what he was worth, approximately) at someone like Gil Meche

That’s something the Yankees can afford to do. Spending that kind of cash (that much of their payroll) on a player like Gil Meche isn’t wise for them.

Take your whosh like a man, dammit.
by RWShow on Oct 28, 2010 10:33 PM EDT

by Shoeless In SC on Dec 30, 2010 11:48 AM CST up reply actions  

Some names: Casey Blake, Ronnie Belliard, Travis Hafner (first extension), Kevin Millwood, Paul Byrd, Rafael Perez

They’ve had some bad ones in there too. I’m not saying Shapiro is a great GM by any means, but they’ve done better than the Royals

Take your whosh like a man, dammit.
by RWShow on Oct 28, 2010 10:33 PM EDT

by Shoeless In SC on Dec 30, 2010 12:09 PM CST up reply actions  

shapiro was the one that screwed the expos over

for sizemore, lee et al wasn’t he?
when you do that you don’t need to make big moves in free agency.

by craigws on Dec 30, 2010 1:47 PM CST up reply actions  

Well, I don't know how the Cleveland front office is going to work in the next few years

But there must be some uncertainty about Antonetti. Even if you like Shapiro’s tenure I’m not sure you can project more of the same just because Antonetti was his wingman.

a VERY AVERAGE Sox Machine refugee

by big_fun on Dec 30, 2010 1:50 PM CST up reply actions  

Ladies Love Grady doesn't even merit a mention.

Oh how the mighty have fallen.

i'm eager to see which of you is going to put his jacket down first so as to ensure the other’s dress doesn’t get wet. by craigws

by e-gus on Dec 30, 2010 12:38 AM CST reply actions  

I'll pick the indians

mostly for the reasons Shoeless stated…. they will sign people if they get remotely close to possibly contending. The royals haven’t made a major acquisition since steve balboni, Danny Tartabull and David Cone….

actually balboni and tartabull came in trades. so the last major free agent signing i can think of was david cone- a little more than 18 years ago.

Kenwo4life=ratings

by KenWo4LiFe on Dec 30, 2010 1:32 AM CST reply actions  

this gives their opinion on each franchises greatest free agent signings....

they pick the resigning of mike sweeney as number one for KC. Fisk is the choice for the Sox- Ventura for the Mets and Ordonez for the Tigers…. i don’t agree with a lot of it but interesting nonetheless.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/525358-mlb-free-agents-each-teams-best-free-agent-acquistion-in-their-history

Kenwo4life=ratings

by KenWo4LiFe on Dec 30, 2010 1:34 AM CST up reply actions  

Gil Meche doesn't float your boat?

I hate Christmas. No baseball. by mikecws91

by winningugly on Dec 30, 2010 7:09 AM CST up reply actions  

stop trying to make

“streets ahead” a thing, UG.

Fireworks: Bang?

by colintj on Dec 30, 2010 2:09 AM CST reply actions  

Some of us say that in real life.

"My role hads not changed: Old punching bag." -winningugly

by Uribe Down on Dec 30, 2010 2:43 AM CST up reply actions  

i want to rec this entire exchange

When I was a kid, I didn't want to be a doctor or a fireman. I wanted to be Super Mario. It's the most literal pipe dream I've ever had.

by U-God on Dec 30, 2010 6:51 AM CST up reply actions  

what's stopping you?

If is is one handed shitting. by winningugly

by mick10 on Dec 30, 2010 7:18 AM CST up reply actions  

bwah

biceps-deep in fungible pumpkins.

by homesickalien on Dec 30, 2010 10:58 AM CST up reply actions  

what is this, mean girls?

Your 2011 Chicago White Sox: Donkey Kong!!!

by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Dec 30, 2010 9:06 AM CST up reply actions  

Well, isn't this just fetch.

Your 2011 Chicago White Sox: Donkey Kong!!!

by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Dec 30, 2010 1:10 PM CST up reply actions  

Posey, until proven otherwise,

is still streets ahead of Santana (and is not coming back from a season-ending injury).

“A handful of ick” is quite descriptive. Did you leave out a consonant?

I hate Christmas. No baseball. by mikecws91

by winningugly on Dec 30, 2010 7:13 AM CST reply actions  

no

ick is the super grown-up word i use to describe things i find unappealing

When I was a kid, I didn't want to be a doctor or a fireman. I wanted to be Super Mario. It's the most literal pipe dream I've ever had.

by U-God on Dec 30, 2010 7:14 AM CST up reply actions  

Whosh.

I hate Christmas. No baseball. by mikecws91

by winningugly on Dec 30, 2010 7:18 AM CST up reply actions  

Agree with WU on Posey

and UG on ‘ick’.

Your 2011 Chicago White Sox: Donkey Kong!!!

by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Dec 30, 2010 8:55 AM CST up reply actions  

SSS stock is soaring

Now, back to bed.

THIS NEW ARRANGEMENT SHOULD BE POOTY GOO

by Jim Margalus on Dec 30, 2010 8:08 AM CST up reply actions  

that's a motto if i've ever heard one.

"when the seagulls follow the trawler, it's because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea." ~~cantona

by BuehrleMan on Dec 30, 2010 8:36 AM CST up reply actions  

Seconded.

"It's like an elephant rodeo in there."

by RWShow on Dec 30, 2010 8:58 AM CST up reply actions  

bubble.

initial euphoria will wear off. i’m short SSS.

by larry on Dec 30, 2010 8:37 AM CST up reply actions  

i blame alan greenspan.

"when the seagulls follow the trawler, it's because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea." ~~cantona

by BuehrleMan on Dec 30, 2010 9:02 AM CST up reply actions  

AND YOU ARE A SON WHO DOES NOT LOVE HIS MOTHER!

(Apologies to “Moonstruck”.) Self-hating SSS’er.

I hate Christmas. No baseball. by mikecws91

by winningugly on Dec 30, 2010 10:29 AM CST up reply actions  

Sig worthy...

"Hey. I may hate myself, but it has nothing to do with the fact that I'm an SSSer!"- HSA

by DrEmilioLizardo on Dec 31, 2010 9:48 AM CST up reply actions  

no waiting period on shorting this IPO? the sharks are circling.

Some people get so rich they lose all respect for humanity. That's how rich I want to be.

by MarketMaker on Dec 30, 2010 10:49 AM CST up reply actions  

Like I said, I like the April puts.

I don’t think the market has priced in the lost value to certain shareholders of the sexy lady pictures or WTGTD rants.

by luzinski on Dec 30, 2010 10:58 AM CST up reply actions  

i think every website should have some porn.

america!

Some people get so rich they lose all respect for humanity. That's how rich I want to be.

by MarketMaker on Dec 30, 2010 11:19 AM CST up reply actions   2 recs

I think every porn should have a website

"There's too many (bleeping) guys on the computer. It's simple. I say that. Pete Rose never watched a computer. Rod Carew never did. All those hitters, they go out and see the ball, hit it and move on." - Ozzie

by usualsuspect on Dec 30, 2010 10:48 PM CST up reply actions  

Truth is, the Cheat left to work on the German scat porn sites full time.

busy weaving laurel wreath for k dawg and JR. These guys are straight up gangsta this year. -LT_sox_fan on Dec 15, 2010

by South Side Expat on Dec 30, 2010 11:38 PM CST up reply actions  

of course you do

I'D LIKE TO APOLOGIZE IN ADVANCE FOR MY BEHAVIOR!! I DAYDREAM WITH THE BEST OF THEM.......

by pierzynskirules on Dec 31, 2010 11:37 PM CST up reply actions  

i've used a great deal of genres for song titles

When I was a kid, I didn't want to be a doctor or a fireman. I wanted to be Super Mario. It's the most literal pipe dream I've ever had.

by U-God on Dec 30, 2010 10:12 AM CST up reply actions  

LOL at "not-that-good-at-baseball' syndrome.

Well done.

Your 2011 Chicago White Sox: Donkey Kong!!!

by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Dec 30, 2010 8:52 AM CST reply actions  

Dayton Moore

LOL. That is all.

The ghost of Brian Anderson haunts the White Sox in the form of Mark Kotsay.

by BaconSlayer09 on Dec 30, 2010 10:11 AM CST reply actions  

Although I voted Royals, the article has convinced me the Indians can make more of an impact now with their pitching

But if some of those prospects the Royals got for Grienke end up having some pop to them, we could see that usual 6 week Royal charge out the gate last sometime until the All-Star Game.

- "You have very lucky dishes, Mr. Simpson. He says he will banish dirt to the land of wind and ghost."
- "Remember...we parked in the Itchy Lot."
- "The frogurt is also cursed."

by Alex Houston on Dec 30, 2010 10:50 AM CST reply actions  

i don't get the hawk comment.

Some people get so rich they lose all respect for humanity. That's how rich I want to be.

by MarketMaker on Dec 30, 2010 11:21 AM CST up reply actions  

I know Yaz is.

"There he was!!! Dirtying his shiny Sox helmet!!!" - homesickalien at the brief glimpse of Manny Ramirez

by Servant2LordBeckham on Dec 30, 2010 12:38 PM CST up reply actions  

The Queen of England knows that Hawk loves Yaz...

"Hey. I may hate myself, but it has nothing to do with the fact that I'm an SSSer!"- HSA

by DrEmilioLizardo on Dec 30, 2010 10:59 PM CST up reply actions  

I still have undying faith in the Royals

to blow thru this crop in about 6 years. They’ll trade the wrong guys and lock up the wrong guys just like the Tigers did with the Bobby Higginson crowd.

There’s no flu shot for dumb.

by TasteeFreeze on Dec 30, 2010 11:10 AM CST via mobile reply actions  

This post reminds me that I'm glad KW uses his farm system in whatever manner helps the White Sox win now.

I really don’t give a rat’s ass about the Charlotte Knights or the Birmingham Barons.

If is is one handed shitting. by winningugly

by mick10 on Dec 30, 2010 12:02 PM CST reply actions  

It's those Kannapolis Intimidators we should be rooting for.

Take your whosh like a man, dammit.
by RWShow on Oct 28, 2010 10:33 PM EDT

by Shoeless In SC on Dec 30, 2010 12:12 PM CST up reply actions  

In my experience they always seemed to make the Sand Gnats look good.

Which was tough to do.

i'm eager to see which of you is going to put his jacket down first so as to ensure the other’s dress doesn’t get wet. by craigws

by e-gus on Dec 30, 2010 12:19 PM CST up reply actions  

The KW approach is certainly preferable

to the always-rebuilding-never-contending cycle you get with some teams (the Pirates probably worst of all).

That doesn’t make some of KW’s shortsighted moves any better. Clubs that can win now and develop for the future still have a competitive advantage over the White Sox.

a VERY AVERAGE Sox Machine refugee

by big_fun on Dec 30, 2010 12:58 PM CST up reply actions  

This.

See: Rangers, Giants

"And he rips one into left! Konerko, grand slam!" —Joe Buck, 22 Oct 2005

by mikecws91 on Dec 30, 2010 1:05 PM CST up reply actions  

except the KW way prevents you from getting those really high picks from having really piss poor teams.

Beckham at 8 overall or whatever it was is the only top 10 I can think of in recent history.

i'm eager to see which of you is going to put his jacket down first so as to ensure the other’s dress doesn’t get wet. by craigws

by e-gus on Dec 30, 2010 1:09 PM CST up reply actions  

Not true.

We had a salary drive. Could’ve gotten top 5 but our Sept. record was too good.

I hate Christmas. No baseball. by mikecws91

by winningugly on Dec 30, 2010 1:12 PM CST up reply actions  

Posey looks pretty good. Would you rather have Beckham or Posey?

Take your whosh like a man, dammit.
by RWShow on Oct 28, 2010 10:33 PM EDT

by Shoeless In SC on Dec 30, 2010 1:19 PM CST up reply actions  

Posey.

Your 2011 Chicago White Sox: Donkey Kong!!!

by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Dec 30, 2010 1:24 PM CST up reply actions  

no doubt.

more valuable at his position. though, as with beckham, his first full season ought to be interesting.

by craigws on Dec 30, 2010 1:59 PM CST up reply actions  

Buster is my pick.

No arguing about AJ at that point being another positive.

I hate Christmas. No baseball. by mikecws91

by winningugly on Dec 30, 2010 2:12 PM CST up reply actions  

Teams that win a lot should be more willing to go over slot in the draft

Seems like the Red Sox frequently do this to strengthen their system despite their low draft picks.

Going for younger, riskier, or rawer players like Mitchell and Sale could pay off too.

a VERY AVERAGE Sox Machine refugee

by big_fun on Dec 30, 2010 1:36 PM CST up reply actions  

In regards to raw high upside players isn't this the lesson we think

they have since learned? Going over slot would be nice. If we are all in lets do it everywhere.

Does UZR take into consideration the JumpThrow?

by Tdogg on Dec 30, 2010 2:07 PM CST up reply actions  

It seems like it from the past four drafts, yeah

It will be clearer in a few years when Sale and Mitchell are easier to evaluate.

Retaining more first-round picks would be helpful too (I don’t hate the Konerko/Dunn plan for this offseason, but I do think they underrated the value of those picks).

a VERY AVERAGE Sox Machine refugee

by big_fun on Dec 30, 2010 2:23 PM CST up reply actions  

Tigers do that too,

and it essentially got them Cabrera.

i'm eager to see which of you is going to put his jacket down first so as to ensure the other’s dress doesn’t get wet. by craigws

by e-gus on Dec 30, 2010 2:39 PM CST up reply actions  

I though they're willingness to accept Willis as part of the deal

over our refusal helped them get Miggy.

Your 2011 Chicago White Sox: Donkey Kong!!!

by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Dec 30, 2010 2:40 PM CST up reply actions  

at the time..

i remember people thinking beckham fell farther than he should have, too.

by SARS on Dec 30, 2010 5:14 PM CST up reply actions  

Nice work, U-God.

Voted Royals, but I have little confidence in either team to become winners. It’ll be interesting to see, though, if one of these teams can rise to the top if the heavy spending Tigers, Twins and Sox become laden with bad contracts in the coming years.

"My role hads not changed: Old punching bag." -winningugly

by Uribe Down on Dec 30, 2010 2:53 PM CST reply actions  

Are any of these prospects considered to be elite players?

i.e. an Evan Longoria or Carl Crawford-level player.

Those players would seem to be the key for this type of rebuilding strategy to work. I’m probably overlooking some teams (please correct me), but in the past when this strategy worked (i.e. the recent Rays and the early ‘00 A’s), they managed to get some elite players (Giambi, Tejada, Hudson, Longoria, Crawford, etc) and filled in solid players around them with trades (Damon, Dye, Kendell, Bartlett, Garza).

by joewho112 on Dec 30, 2010 3:01 PM CST reply actions  

hosmer, moustakas, lamb, montgomery and myers probably would be considered for any top ten prospects list.

and you’re not going to find many who wouldn’t place all of them in a top 20-25. moustakas i’d consider elite. hosmer is close to that but i’d downgrade him for position. the two pitchers are elite for pitching prospects but the inherent risk with pitchers may not make them elite prospects.

by larry on Dec 30, 2010 3:09 PM CST up reply actions  

Neyer warned of TINSTAAPP
The point is that unless you’re a Rays fan, you might want to make at least some small attempt to avoid getting too excited about young pitchers. Frankly, this is what leaves me most skeptical about the Royals and their (now) Mission 2013 (or ‘14). Especially considering the departure of Zack Greinke, the Royals’ youth movement simply won’t work unless at least three of their very talented, but very young, starting pitchers pan out. And history suggests that they will not.

link

THIS NEW ARRANGEMENT SHOULD BE POOTY GOO

by Jim Margalus on Dec 30, 2010 3:12 PM CST up reply actions  

NEYER!

Does he have to come over too, Jim?

I hate Christmas. No baseball. by mikecws91

by winningugly on Dec 30, 2010 3:14 PM CST up reply actions  

he's right about the pitcher risk.

but i’m not sure he’s right about things not working if three pitchers don’t pan out. with as much cost-controlled talent they’re likely to have, i think they can spend on some pitching. or trade to get some.

by larry on Dec 30, 2010 3:15 PM CST up reply actions  

I'm inclined to agree with his position but for different reasons.

I can’t speak to the ‘at least three have to develop’ aspect, but I’ve spent my entire baseball life hearing about how the Royals rebuilding efforts were underway and they are only “a couple years away.” Every time they suck. I’ll believe it when I see it. I can (sort of) buy into the Indians/Rays/As because of their histories.

Your 2011 Chicago White Sox: Donkey Kong!!!

by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Dec 30, 2010 3:19 PM CST up reply actions  

On a tangental note, check out the roster for the 1996 Cleveland Indians

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_Cleveland_Indians_season#Roster

An outfield that had Manny, Albert Belle, Kenny Lofton, Brian Giles and Jeromy Burnitz. The inflied had Jeff Kent, Thome, Vizquel, Carlo Baerga, Eddie Murray and Julio Franco. Wowzers.

by joewho112 on Dec 30, 2010 3:22 PM CST up reply actions  

I think those Indians teams are going to go down

as "Greatest Teams Never to Win the WS.’’

Your 2011 Chicago White Sox: Donkey Kong!!!

by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Dec 30, 2010 3:25 PM CST up reply actions  

They were not, nor will ever be,

Teh Twinn.

I hate Christmas. No baseball. by mikecws91

by winningugly on Dec 30, 2010 3:39 PM CST up reply actions  

Well, yeah.

Those Indians could at least get out of the first round and then somehow lose. Very important difference.

Your 2011 Chicago White Sox: Donkey Kong!!!

by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Dec 30, 2010 3:48 PM CST up reply actions  

whatever

for real

Does UZR take into consideration the JumpThrow?

by Tdogg on Dec 30, 2010 3:34 PM CST up reply actions  

unbelievable roster.

not enough pitching.

Kenwo4life=ratings

by KenWo4LiFe on Dec 31, 2010 12:21 AM CST up reply actions  

Beware the tale of TDogg

and Tampa circa 2008

Does UZR take into consideration the JumpThrow?

by Tdogg on Dec 30, 2010 3:30 PM CST up reply actions  

TDogg's Twisted Tale of Tampa 2?

Enlighten me, please.

Your 2011 Chicago White Sox: Donkey Kong!!!

by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Dec 30, 2010 3:33 PM CST up reply actions  

Larry was still a prick :-)

Really not that testy
I am just responding to your implication that I don’t extend some of the same expectations on other ballclubs as I do the White Sox. For me its not all about uncertainty, some of it is history.
Many would argue that the Yanks don’t look that good in a couple of years, but many teams that have the ability to support a 200 million payroll.

So back to the point, unless Bud is suddenly going to change the makeup of the divisions, I don’t believe many BoSox and Yankee fans are sitting around saying, “The Devil Rays and their No.1 farm system is coming.” IMO

Does UZR take into consideration the JumpThrow?

by Tdogg on Dec 30, 2010 3:40 PM CST up reply actions  

screw that

I was an idiot in that thread.

Does UZR take into consideration the JumpThrow?

by Tdogg on Dec 30, 2010 3:43 PM CST up reply actions  

second thought

too much ssh in there not to link. That along with folks trying to trade Konerko to the Angels. After all the 2008 White Sox had zero chance to compete..
link

Does UZR take into consideration the JumpThrow?

by Tdogg on Dec 30, 2010 3:49 PM CST up reply actions  

(Sigh)

I miss 2008. Other than my grandmother dying, it might have been the best year of my life.

Your 2011 Chicago White Sox: Donkey Kong!!!

by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Dec 30, 2010 3:51 PM CST up reply actions  

larry calling Josh Fields a top run producer was my favorite part.

i'm eager to see which of you is going to put his jacket down first so as to ensure the other’s dress doesn’t get wet. by craigws

by e-gus on Dec 30, 2010 3:57 PM CST up reply actions  

what the hell happened to Egbert anyways?

The only glove he needs is a batting glove. - RWShow on Adam Dunn signing.

by blackoutsox on Dec 30, 2010 4:15 PM CST up reply actions  

Asked Colin

He’s the one who had a man crush on him.

Does UZR take into consideration the JumpThrow?

by Tdogg on Dec 30, 2010 4:19 PM CST up reply actions  

It was about then that I started to think

Michael Lewis was totally full of shit.

Fireworks: Bang?

by colintj on Dec 30, 2010 9:17 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

I miss JRE

Positively the most pessimistic dude I have ever seen. How many would say the 2006 team had no shot to win the WS and “was” serious.

Does UZR take into consideration the JumpThrow?

by Tdogg on Dec 30, 2010 4:21 PM CST up reply actions  

I think SSH had him beat

There wasn’t one middling transaction in MLB that wouldn’t have made the Sox better.

THIS NEW ARRANGEMENT SHOULD BE POOTY GOO

by Jim Margalus on Dec 30, 2010 4:34 PM CST up reply actions  

Plus, it wasn't enough that he was angry

He demanded that the majority be equally or more upset.

THIS NEW ARRANGEMENT SHOULD BE POOTY GOO

by Jim Margalus on Dec 30, 2010 4:42 PM CST up reply actions  

So we should bring him back?

New management, new standards. I’m open to listening. I like rehab projects.

I hate Christmas. No baseball. by mikecws91

by winningugly on Dec 30, 2010 5:19 PM CST up reply actions  

not to mention ratings

If is is one handed shitting. by winningugly

by mick10 on Dec 30, 2010 8:49 PM CST up reply actions  

I don't think anyone posted more proposed lineups in the history of this blog

Take your whosh like a man, dammit.
by RWShow on Oct 28, 2010 10:33 PM EDT

by Shoeless In SC on Dec 30, 2010 11:24 PM CST up reply actions  

wiz and him ensured that anything that happened in MLB was reported on SSS.

Some people get so rich they lose all respect for humanity. That's how rich I want to be.

by MarketMaker on Dec 30, 2010 11:58 PM CST up reply actions  

i like that though.

i'm eager to see which of you is going to put his jacket down first so as to ensure the other’s dress doesn’t get wet. by craigws

by e-gus on Jan 1, 2011 10:20 PM CST up reply actions  

And if that wasn't enough

He had to dabble in misogyny, homophobia and political attacks.

by Ozzie Montana on Dec 31, 2010 12:32 AM CST up reply actions  

Wow. Some souljaboy in there too!

What ridiculous trade proposals. Heee.

Take your whosh like a man, dammit.
by RWShow on Oct 28, 2010 10:33 PM EDT

by Shoeless In SC on Dec 30, 2010 11:03 PM CST up reply actions  

Is there ever?

busy weaving laurel wreath for k dawg and JR. These guys are straight up gangsta this year. -LT_sox_fan on Dec 15, 2010

by South Side Expat on Dec 31, 2010 1:12 AM CST up reply actions  

Tampa also changed their name and uni's in '08, dogg.

And Longo’s call-up in April plus the trades/FA’s helped immensely.

I hate Christmas. No baseball. by mikecws91

by winningugly on Dec 30, 2010 3:36 PM CST up reply actions  

Well yeah

but changing that part of their history is something also didn’t give any consideration to. Yes Dayton is kind of an idiot but I think there is a decent chance they can put something together and be ultra competitive.

Does UZR take into consideration the JumpThrow?

by Tdogg on Dec 30, 2010 3:43 PM CST up reply actions  

It will be hard to mess up

with all that talent. At least they got rid of Hillman. Small steps.

I hate Christmas. No baseball. by mikecws91

by winningugly on Dec 30, 2010 3:47 PM CST up reply actions  

tampas home grown pitching is a big part too

scrap heap pena as well

"Sportsmanship is just loser talk for losing."

by boyonthedock on Dec 30, 2010 3:18 PM CST up reply actions  

i'd also just note.

crawford wasn’t considered anything close to an elite prospect. so the “you never know” with prospects can go both ways.

by larry on Dec 30, 2010 3:20 PM CST up reply actions  

Similar to Mitchell.

Fantastic athlete, raw baseball talent. Crawford had scholarship offers to play basketball at UCLA and offers to play QB at elite college programs. Chose baseball and it worked out pooty goo.

If is is one handed shitting. by winningugly

by mick10 on Dec 30, 2010 3:30 PM CST up reply actions  

Same with Desmond Jennings.

10th round pick in 2006. Has ascended the ranks to where folks are saying he’s Crawford without the pop.

I hate Christmas. No baseball. by mikecws91

by winningugly on Dec 30, 2010 3:32 PM CST up reply actions  

He is now

which is my point. He was not when he was drafted or he would not have fallen to the 10th round. He was more highly rated a year or two ago – some of the enthusiasm has cooled.

From a pitching perspective, I’m interested to see how another highly touted propsect, Hellickson, does this year.

I hate Christmas. No baseball. by mikecws91

by winningugly on Dec 30, 2010 3:38 PM CST up reply actions  

now *that's* a real tournament of bad

Wow. Thank God we aren’t the Royals or Pirates.

Your 2011 Chicago White Sox: Donkey Kong!!!

by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Dec 30, 2010 5:00 PM CST up reply actions  

Couldn't one do an elite 8 for Hawk's moves as GM?

Take your whosh like a man, dammit.
by RWShow on Oct 28, 2010 10:33 PM EDT

by Shoeless In SC on Dec 30, 2010 11:28 PM CST up reply actions  

Holy hell, that's still going on?

Linked it like a month ago.

"My role hads not changed: Old punching bag." -winningugly

by Uribe Down on Dec 30, 2010 5:02 PM CST up reply actions  

I loved it then. Still love it today

Take your whosh like a man, dammit.
by RWShow on Oct 28, 2010 10:33 PM EDT

by Shoeless In SC on Dec 30, 2010 10:58 PM CST up reply actions  

am going to buy myself a bill james book.

should i get the historical baseball abstract or whatever happened to the hall of fame?
reasons why would be appreciated.
thanks.

by craigws on Dec 30, 2010 11:51 PM CST reply actions  

here's my two cents, gang.

if you only read one book the rest of your life, it should be “the time traveler’s wife”

Some people get so rich they lose all respect for humanity. That's how rich I want to be.

by MarketMaker on Dec 31, 2010 12:21 AM CST up reply actions  

The Baseball Abstract is a must for any baseball fan.

James covers a great deal of material in a funny and educational way. He destroys a few myths along the way (I remember being crushed to find that the Black Sox were not the greatest team of all time) and you can easily see how modern sabermetrics grew from much of his early work. Its book I pick up and read from time to time when I want to “experience” whatever decade I’m feeling at that time.

Does UZR take into consideration the JumpThrow?

by Tdogg on Dec 31, 2010 8:53 AM CST up reply actions  

id go with that too

added bonus: the ozzie guillen award.

i'm eager to see which of you is going to put his jacket down first so as to ensure the other’s dress doesn’t get wet. by craigws

by e-gus on Jan 1, 2011 10:24 PM CST up reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Welcome to South Side Sox! Please check our new standards and guide to FanPosts/FanShots before posting.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Pair-rose-colored__szo0279_small
A Quarter for your thoughts?
Homersimpson_small
BMO 2027: The Sox Machine Cometh
Img_2130_small
RRRR: Lemon drops melting
Deadhorse_small
White Sox Minor League Update
Hippeavy5711_small
Condor Sounds

Recent FanPosts

Small
Reliever-to-Starter Conversions Update
Small
Is Nate Jones for Real?*
Pair-rose-colored__szo0279_small
CDM Challenge Update (Second Tier Status 1/5 in)
Small
30-team dynasty league-White Sox Available
Img_2130_small
An old RRRR

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

FanShots

Quick hits of video, photos, quotes, chats, links and lists that you find around the web.

Recommended FanShots

Angry Condor: The Chris Sale Saga (beautiful work by SSE).

Recent FanShots

White Sox offer free tickets to CPD officers
Empty Seats
A true hitting guru can fix anything
Tweet from Jake Peavy
The White Sox's Black Hole Problem, And Other Observations From A Day Game
Get to the choppa!
Dan Rubenstein heads to Columbus, Ohio to meet Hall of Fame legends Ricky Henderson, Frank Thomas,...
Sox Are Shiftless MFers!
Jake Peavy, AL Pitcher of the Month for the April, is back to 2007 form. While outperforming his preseason projections, is he really up there with the best in baseball? Short answer: yes.

See full post on Beyond the Box Score
A 2 part podcast with Oney Guillen (Ozzie's Son)

+ New FanShot All FanShots >

Yahoo_full_count

Managing Editor

Tedlangue_small Jim Margalus

Editors

Deadhorse_small larry

Sealab_murphy_small colintj

Img_2130_small homesickalien

Omar_small U-God

Authors

10083hb_small KenWo4LiFe

Archerme_small Uribe Down