Community Projection: Juan Pierre
by The Cheat on Mar 1, 2010 4:32 PM CST
Email
PrintIt's community projection time.
We've been doing these for a few years, and there are always a few surprises (to me, at least). Occasionally, they demonstrate the value of an informed mass of people versus that of the strictly numbers-based projection system.
We'll crank out a few of these a week, leaving the form open for 3-5 days so that everyone can participate. At which point, I'll run all the numbers through the spreadsheet (throwing out a garbage entry here or there) and produce a simple projection based of your input.
So, first up; Juan Pierre... Recent stats listed below... Community Projection Form after the jump.
| Year | Age | AB | R | H | SB | CS | BB | SO | BA | OBP | SLG |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 2005 | 27 | 656 | 96 | 181 | 57 | 17 | 41 | 45 | .276 | .326 | .354 |
| 2006 | 28 | 699 | 87 | 204 | 58 | 20 | 32 | 38 | .292 | .330 | .388 |
| 2007 | 29 | 668 | 96 | 196 | 64 | 15 | 33 | 37 | .293 | .331 | .353 |
| 2008 | 30 | 375 | 44 | 106 | 40 | 12 | 22 | 24 | .283 | .327 | .328 |
| 2009 | 31 | 380 | 57 | 117 | 30 | 12 | 27 | 27 | .308 | .365 | .392 |
| 10 Seasons | 5533 | 804 | 1663 | 459 | 155 | 340 | 337 | .301 | .348 | .372 | |
| 162 Game Avg. | 626 | 91 | 188 | 52 | 18 | 38 | 38 | .301 | .348 | .372 | |
182 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
i forget
do they typically keep the same squads for split action or do they not give a shit?
I'd rather have Rios steal 50 bases than hit 50 home runs. I want production.
Cheat, please correct...
the OBP for 2005, 2006, 2007 and 2008. We obtained Mr. Pierre to play the “leadoff position” and would not have done so with such OBP. I thank you in advance.
by palehose67 on Mar 1, 2010 5:03 PM CST reply actions 3 recs
my thought was future...
It was intended as a referendum on Pierre over Pods this year (and next)
Twitter: @SouthSideCheat
SouthSideSox on Facebook
gotcha. was wondering if we were gonna reminisce on +98 OPS pods.
this is much more favorable to pierre.
Cashing checks and having sex.
was also thinking that caught stealing might be worth tallying in this situation. could have considerable impact.
Cashing checks and having sex.
yeah, it's a little late now...
over 15 entries already
Twitter: @SouthSideCheat
SouthSideSox on Facebook
cest la vi
i was just making best guesses anyways
Hell Yesss
by Grinder Rule #42 on Mar 1, 2010 5:55 PM CST up reply actions
for the record, i'm giving pierre 41/57 on stolen bases.
and i was thinking optimistically across the board when i started, but looking at his career numbers it appears he’s just not that good. without some crazy BABIP it’s gonna be tough for him to OPS+ anywhere near 100.
Cashing checks and having sex.
I gave him 50 sb
My guess is he has 1 decent season out of the 2. This one. Still won’t be OPS+ of 100 though but in the 90s.
"You're lucky I'm retired"
Jack Bauer
I punched in my guess for Pierre, looked up Pods stats from 09, and they were really close.
Then I voted for better than Pods based on routes to the ball and baserunning.
i still hate having to compute all that stuff
slash line, SBs and CSs and PAs would be sufficient.
sweet little data entry table embed though. how’d you make it look so pretty?
I'd rather have Rios steal 50 bases than hit 50 home runs. I want production.
Google is my friend...
select new>Form… then change theme
it tosses them in a SS so the whole data digestion/regurgitation takes like 20 minutes, with 15 minutes devoted to cleaning up the difference between .300 and 300 AVGs
Twitter: @SouthSideCheat
SouthSideSox on Facebook
that form embed looks way better than any of the tables/charts i've tried to embed
hence tableizer. i’d prefer to be able to make pretty google embeds though.
I'd rather have Rios steal 50 bases than hit 50 home runs. I want production.
Oh, the table...
that’s straight off of BB-Ref…
click SHARE, [X] out the columns and rows you don’t want to include… then select which type of code you’d like to generate… (I chose HTML then pasted it into the HTML view of our editor) but you can probably use a simpler embed code with javascript and iframe.
Twitter: @SouthSideCheat
SouthSideSox on Facebook
no i meant the google form
the g-doc tables i’ve made always end up looking either ugly or have the damn hori-scroll
I'd rather have Rios steal 50 bases than hit 50 home runs. I want production.
ah... I just edit the horri-scroll out of them
you can manually change the height and width if you look at the embedded iframe…
Twitter: @SouthSideCheat
SouthSideSox on Facebook
tdogg, cheat and colin.
sorry, tdogg. there weren’t many black guys on SSS to choose from.
Cashing checks and having sex.
by MarketMaker on Mar 1, 2010 8:33 PM CST up reply actions 4 recs
needed a hat.
These events have me frightened and on the verge of evacuating my bowels.
by thatshortkid on Mar 1, 2010 11:15 PM CST up reply actions 5 recs
i thought i had tried that
maybe not enough shrinkage.
you guys know what i’m talkin’ ’bout.
I'd rather have Rios steal 50 bases than hit 50 home runs. I want production.
Haha
That’s great!
"You two need to get a room filled with condoms and calculators!"
by Where Triples Go to Die on Mar 1, 2010 11:26 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
d'oh
Trib acknowledges PECOTA, pens article surrounding projections, fails to check updated PECOTA depth chart standings.
Twitter: @SouthSideCheat
SouthSideSox on Facebook
to be fair
they’ve updated them like 13 times already
I'd rather have Rios steal 50 bases than hit 50 home runs. I want production.
also what aging lineup?
Rios, Quentin, Teahen, Alexei, and Beckham are all on the right side of 30. i thought i saw they’re one of the younger teams in the league this year.
I'd rather have Rios steal 50 bases than hit 50 home runs. I want production.
aging and injury prone
it was terribly worded.
old & infirm:
- Paul
- AJ
- Q
- Pierre
- Crap Taco
Then he lumps Rios in with Q as an injury/poor performance risk which is correct, but what?
Silly.
Opinions vary, although Sox general manager Ken Williams has not been shy about muttering his “who cares,” even after the computer accurately predicted a 72-90 Sox record after the 2005 World Series.
Wow, it accurately predicted the 2007 record after the 2005 WS? Here I thought it made that prediction spring ’07. I guess PECOTA is even more impressive than I thought!
And it did so well in '05... even a clock is right twice a day.
Its just a guideline – if these predicitions were even half correct would Vegas be in business?
"ass hole thi is the same line up whit leftys you idiot"
"A broken clock is right twice a day."
Get with the cliche program, OPOS.
I just don’t feel like killing anyone else for as long as I can help it.
Huh, what were we discussing again?
"ass hole thi is the same line up whit leftys you idiot"
for some reason i predicted him to have a pretty decent year.
i’ll regret that in the morning.
Kenwo4life=ratings
Pi-Pod!
2010 WhiteSox Baseball: "even if it works it's still stupid"
by OznCoop on Mar 2, 2010 8:14 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
So apparently we could have signed Felipe Lopez for the same price as Omar,
2010 WhiteSox Baseball: "even if it works it's still stupid"
Money ain't go no own-...
never mind
/sigh
by Sox-35th on Mar 2, 2010 8:43 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
boy you got me confused
with someone who repeats himself
I'd rather have Rios steal 50 bases than hit 50 home runs. I want production.
Im thinking Cheat after community projections
We have another session of Microsoft art for season predictions……
"You're lucky I'm retired"
Jack Bauer
and they acquired Juan Pierre again because why?
Quentin can only play LF and Pierre can’t play anywhere else. Plus its his first year facing AL pitching. If he gets more than 250 PAs we’ve got some serious offensive problems.
No animals were harmed during the making of this comment.
by ChicagoPete on Mar 2, 2010 10:28 AM CST via mobile reply actions
Q is a natural RF...
Not sure why you would think he can only play LF. He was only there because of Jermaine Dye.
If he gets less than 250 ABs, I’d be more concerned. If he gets more, it’d hopefully mean he’s not a complete disaster.
by Grinder in Training on Mar 2, 2010 10:46 AM CST up reply actions
he's a natural butcher out there
You can hide him LF not so much in right. I thought the whole point of giving Ozzie his toys is to improve defense?
I pray Jones pans out. A regular OF of Q/Jones/Rios is more palatable than Pierre/Rios/Q
No animals were harmed during the making of this comment.
by ChicagoPete on Mar 2, 2010 12:24 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
you've seen Q in right?!?!?!
and rios anywhere but center is just stupid
RIP Jim Thome 1-25-2010
an AL team not having a DH is like a giraffe fucking a mule. - larry
If Jones has lost 45 lbs in the past two years
And is somehow back to what he was in Atl, Jones is probably better then Rios in CF. But that’s a low percentage event.
I never saw Jones play that much in his prime
but his reputation was that of the best CF in the NL. As much as I hated Erstad, he played a magnificent CF for the Sox in 2007. Jones is the same age that Erstad was that year. I think he’s the biggest wild card the Sox have this season.
Andruw Jones is only 32 years old, it’s not too hallucinogenic to imagine that he could have a really big year. I’m really encouraged that he seems to have gotten his head out of his ass and is finally taking his conditioning seriously. I don’t really care so much what he does with his bat, but if he can cover ground in CF like he used to that would be a huge boost with this pitching staff pairing him with Rios in RF (or vice versa).
No animals were harmed during the making of this comment.
Sure, I'm hopeful we get some like 80% version of prime Jones
but if he let his conditioning get too poor, he’s General Soreness II. Whenever he tries to bust out his old leather, he’s going to hurt himself.
Jones was Epically good: http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=96&position=OF#fielding ’05, 34.7 UZR/150 Insanity pants!
*bUZR
sUZR says he was an average CF.
I'd rather have Rios steal 50 bases than hit 50 home runs. I want production.
what do the b and s stand for?
or is it all a giant joke, perpetrated by the nerd community!??! get it? bs?
BIS or STATS
two different companies providing different stringer data.
I'd rather have Rios steal 50 bases than hit 50 home runs. I want production.
I lost interest
When they traded for Teahen
No animals were harmed during the making of this comment.
by ChicagoPete on Mar 2, 2010 12:59 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
You mean Q is going to be the RF?
Mercy, he’s a worse OF than JD
No animals were harmed during the making of this comment.
by ChicagoPete on Mar 2, 2010 12:06 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
uhhh
that is not likely to be correct
JD was the third worst amongst qualified fielders in baseball over the last three seasons.
I'd rather have Rios steal 50 bases than hit 50 home runs. I want production.
fuck the stats
jd was a lot easier to watch out there than Quentin is…. I agree- Quentin is pretty awful. At least JD caught the ball if it was within his 10 feet radius. Quentin is far and away better than Podsy though.
Kenwo4life=ratings
ah, the ease of watching test.
quite venerable. torii hunter has won multiple gold gloves on that basis.
so you agree JD has less range
but the aesthetics are what you’re going by?
the value of an uncaught fly ball is a double and basically no one drops balls they get to, so the only thing that really matters is range.
I'd rather have Rios steal 50 bases than hit 50 home runs. I want production.
i just like my outfielders to prevent as many runs as possible.
i don’t care if they’re wearing dresses, using their hat to catch balls or are able to provide a soliloquy on the mechanics of outfield defense.
by larry on Mar 2, 2010 1:14 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
so it IS nobler to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous kenwo!
I'd rather have Rios steal 50 bases than hit 50 home runs. I want production.
"You can have fun with a son but you gotta be a father to a girl..."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lYcaQnALYc
"his ballerness could not be stoped which rose his era to 5.42 "
It's almost as if larry set you up for that.
In Seattle, a resigned sigh escapes the lips of a foul-mouthed angel. ~wu
by homesickalien on Mar 2, 2010 3:34 PM CST up reply actions
a couple problems.
First, if your outfielders are wearing dresses then the rest of the team will have to as well. (rule 1.11(a)) While this may be plausible, if difficult, to implement the bigger problem will be the catching the ball in their hat part which, as i’m sure you’re aware, is a violation of rule 7.05(b) and in each instance would result in the batter being awarded three bases in which case it is virtually the same as having jermaine dye in right field.
you are certainly one of the more ridiculous people on this board. ~ larry
by BuehrleMan on Mar 2, 2010 2:21 PM CST up reply actions 6 recs
This conclusion is excellent.
Perfect, even.
I just don’t feel like killing anyone else for as long as I can help it.
agree
Q takes bad routes. Ball moves a lot more in RF coming off the bat of RHB
No animals were harmed during the making of this comment.
by ChicagoPete on Mar 2, 2010 1:02 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
evidence suggests LF and RF
are basically the same and do not require substantially different skillsets
I'd rather have Rios steal 50 bases than hit 50 home runs. I want production.
c'mon
Don’t tell me you actually believe that? You’d have no problem putting a Juan Pierre or Pods in RF? Brave is the man who first dared to eat an oyster.
No animals were harmed during the making of this comment.
by ChicagoPete on Mar 2, 2010 3:25 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
i'm sure that teams leverage it such that
the better arm goes in right, but it doesn’t mean that it makes a huge difference. it would just be dumb to go with the worse of the two options.
I'd rather have Rios steal 50 bases than hit 50 home runs. I want production.
LF != RF
While skill sets are similar, we all know the ball plays differently in right field and It takes some time to adjust to this. Carlos was a plus defensive right fielder over a 120 or so game sample size with the diamondbacks, and I believe that was his natural position in college. He then had to relearn his instincts for LF when coming to the sox in 2008, and had the foot/knee problems last year.
If his legs really are healthy, I expect him to at least be defensively neutral, and possibly positive UZR in RF this year.
by paul_ on Mar 2, 2010 4:13 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
we all know?
that’s the best kind of evidence right there. but if we’re going with that kind of thing, i played plenty of outfield and shagged plenty of flies and never had any problem other than my totally unsurprising lack of speed. understanding flight paths of baseballs is not something major leaguers struggle with by and large. it’s certainly not an effect you can claim to pick out of 120 games of UZR.
seriously, there’s a reason why the position adjustment for left and right is the same. it wasn’t ass-pulled.
I'd rather have Rios steal 50 bases than hit 50 home runs. I want production.
He's easy to watch because you were masturbating furiously to the sight of his corpse.
Give light skin a chance KenWo.
Taj Gibson is the face of Bulls basketball!
by Trey23 on Jan 5, 2010 6:31 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
by Ozzie Montana on Mar 2, 2010 2:16 PM CST up reply actions
Too much math, but this: "Physicist writes a better formula to predict baseball success"
“Bottom line: More consistent teams (narrower run distribution) tend to win more games for the same RPG (runs per game). Teams with higher SLG (slugging percentage) tend to have a narrower run distribution. Given two teams with the same RPG, a team with a SLG .080 higher will on average win one more game a season. If their pitching/defense has the same RPG allowed but a SLG allowed .080 lower, that would add another game.”
So there you have it: “The more consistent a team is in scoring runs, game to game, the better the team’s winning percentage for the total number of runs scored,” Whisnant said.
Across an entire 162-game season, Whisnant said more consistency could mean two additional wins. And that can be the difference between making the playoffs and calling it quits the first week in October.
"his ballerness could not be stoped which rose his era to 5.42 "
it's counter intuitive
but apparently correct, though i’m still not sure why. and the relevance is obvs.
I'd rather have Rios steal 50 bases than hit 50 home runs. I want production.
I think it's actually intuitive to a non-math person like me...
If the Sox win 10-0, then lose 1-0 they still average 5 runs/game. But this says (I think), better to score 5 every day for the long haul, right?
"his ballerness could not be stoped which rose his era to 5.42 "
This is also manifested in that run prevention is (marginally) more valuable than run production
If the Sox forecast to score 850 runs but allow 825, pythag says they’ll have a decent record (I don’t have time to run the equation right now)
But keep that same run differential, and lower the run scoring environment (say, 750 scored and 725 allowed) and pythag says to expect more win(s).
Twitter: @SouthSideCheat
SouthSideSox on Facebook
Used to argue this
Even though I didnt fully understand it then. One of the reasons I was less impressed with a few of the Indian teams and didn’t blindly follow run differential. They had a knack for winning 18-1 once in awhile inflating their numbers.
"You're lucky I'm retired"
Jack Bauer
25 run diferential is a larger % of 750 than 850.
Ergo, it makes sense the pythag favors it more.
I just don’t feel like killing anyone else for as long as I can help it.
So this all implies that WAR isn't totally fungible?
White Sox fan; Jeppson's Malort man
by KarkoviceIsHawt on Mar 2, 2010 1:27 PM CST up reply actions
right but why does that suggest SLG is important?
I'd rather have Rios steal 50 bases than hit 50 home runs. I want production.
the more i think about it
the more i think the statement “OBP is more important than SLG” is nonsensical. they aren’t even scaled the same, so how can you take the two numbers and compare without knowing what a marginal walk or base is worth?
I'd rather have Rios steal 50 bases than hit 50 home runs. I want production.
I think that's why OBP is more important, in OPS
The correct scaling factor is 1.8 points of obp per point of slg.
right
that statement makes sense. and i assume that’s the context from which the statement was taken…but then it got clipped out somehow.
I'd rather have Rios steal 50 bases than hit 50 home runs. I want production.
Kind of like the asimov quote
Man’s greatest asset… and the whole story is about the part of the quote that gets cut. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Greatest_Asset
Slightly deeper then I intended, but still relevant in that you shouldn’t parrot common or intelligent sayings. And that you should question what other people say.
sounds like a Borges story
with more robots and fewer infinite libraries
I'd rather have Rios steal 50 bases than hit 50 home runs. I want production.
by colintj on Mar 2, 2010 3:51 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Post-modern rec
Reporter: I was wondering if at any point in my lifetime the Cubs weren't going to be run by a guy who didn't immediately remind me of failure, confusion, or imminent death
more importantly though
you’re right. i used an oft-repeated phrase the meaning of which i only thought i knew. it’s tough to catch them all.
I'd rather have Rios steal 50 bases than hit 50 home runs. I want production.
Its mostly impossible to catch them all
But its important to remain open to being corrected when the statement becomes incorrect.
I’ve been flinching whenever anyone uses the word marginal these days (its trendy!). I don’t think that particular concept is easy to understand. I don’t fully understand it, so I try and not use it.
i like this wiki bit
“A change that would be effected as or by a specific loosening or tightening of those constraints is a marginal change, as large as the smallest relevant division of that good or service.”
or maybe:
what happens when you want to add one more?
I'd rather have Rios steal 50 bases than hit 50 home runs. I want production.
I swear I understand every word on its own in the first 'graph.
But not in that order.
i thought there was some notion of creating a new baseline. So, your marginal add from starting with 3 of something is different then starting with 82 of something.
it may or may not be
the point is to hold everything constant but the addition/subtraction at a given point of a given unit so you can find out.
diminishing marginal utility, then, means that as you continue to add one unity, the utility gained is less and less.
I'd rather have Rios steal 50 bases than hit 50 home runs. I want production.
Stop it! You two are making me wet.
"You two need to get a room filled with condoms and calculators!"
by Where Triples Go to Die on Mar 3, 2010 12:23 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
oh.
so, “marginal batting wins” = “additional wins due to adding offensive runs only”.
Used in a sentence:
Pierre and Pods are the same on defense and the basebaths, but Pierre has marginal offensive value because he his BABIP is historically 30 points higher.
Right? (The comparison is using fake data from my head)
that's really more of an aggregate
Hatchetm’s comment about the runs per game distribution article at THT below gets right at it:
“marginal runs 8,9,10….20 are not really worth much.
if you score 12 runs, odds of winning must be 95%, 13 runs maybe 96%.
if you score 4 runs, odds of winning may be 35%, 5 runs, 55%."
And then the actual data:
RS Win% Diff
0 .000
1 .077 .077
2 .208 .131
3 .339 .131
4 .471 .132
5 .593 .122
6 .686 .092
7 .776 .090
8 .840 .064
9 .874 .034
10 .921 .047
11 .939 .018
12 .963 .025
13 .987 .024
14 .978 -.009
15 .976 -.001
16 .983 .007
17 1.000 .017
The difference column is a marginal difference, the difference between what you’ve already got and what happens when you add one to it. Check out the article, I think it’ll help.
I'd rather have Rios steal 50 bases than hit 50 home runs. I want production.
another concept that might help illustrate:
once you purchase a widget maker and everything it takes to make widgets, what does it cost to make an additional widget? prior to purchasing the capital, the cost of making 1 widget was enormous. the difference in cost after the capital acquisition is the marginal difference. the fact that it costs very little is represented by the notion of economies of scale.
I'd rather have Rios steal 50 bases than hit 50 home runs. I want production.
OR MAYBE IT IS YOU WHO KNOWS VERY LITTLE
that was your mind being blown. you’re welcome.
I'd rather have Rios steal 50 bases than hit 50 home runs. I want production.
thirdly
just because it’s vaguely relevant and read and liked it:
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/11/07/books/review/07WALLACE.html
I'd rather have Rios steal 50 bases than hit 50 home runs. I want production.
also, in your example (let's say the alternative is 6 and 4 runs in a win and a loss)
it’s not clear which is better or why.
I'd rather have Rios steal 50 bases than hit 50 home runs. I want production.
i think i get it now
“at some point, someone has to drive in the runs”
if you had a team with a .400 OBP but never got a hit, they’d have a tough time scoring runs. this is reflected in linear weights, for example, in that a single is worth more than a walk.
I'd rather have Rios steal 50 bases than hit 50 home runs. I want production.
I'm not smart enough to crunch all the numbers.
I would think that a single with no one on base should be worth the same as a walk. Should a single wnoob be worth the same as a single with a risp? Would there be a benefit to weighting those 2 two singles differently?
"You two need to get a room filled with condoms and calculators!"
by Where Triples Go to Die on Mar 3, 2010 12:31 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
I'll stop smoking and go to bed now.
"You two need to get a room filled with condoms and calculators!"
by Where Triples Go to Die on Mar 3, 2010 12:32 AM CST via mobile up reply actions 2 recs
ahh, no, you have a point.
That’s where linear weights start breaking down. They don’t represent any exact game state. They represent an average of all game states.
If you want to incorporate game state to value that exact single you need to use something like WPA. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/get-to-know-wpa/
you're right on (and so is c-pac's response below)
and there are a few different ways to take care of that. but the way you do it depends on what exactly you want to talk about. wOBA uses the average linear weight because it wants to know about hitting skill, not necessarily actual runs contributed.
I'd rather have Rios steal 50 bases than hit 50 home runs. I want production.
I remember hardball times did a piece on this
I want to say in 05 involving the White Sox. Cliff note version was KW or Ozzie were correct in their assumption on focusing on more consistent run production even if less runs. 5555 better than 8-3-2-7
"You're lucky I'm retired"
Jack Bauer
you remember who wrote it?
I'd rather have Rios steal 50 bases than hit 50 home runs. I want production.
this?
http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/consistency-is-key/
http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/consistency-is-key-part-two
I'd rather have Rios steal 50 bases than hit 50 home runs. I want production.
This one?
http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/runs-per-game/
"his ballerness could not be stoped which rose his era to 5.42 "
For instance, if your league averaged five runs a game, and your team scored exactly five runs in every game, it would typically have a .600 winning percentage instead of .500, even though it had scored the average number of runs. That is the power of looking at distributions instead of averages.
"his ballerness could not be stoped which rose his era to 5.42 "
that is pretty interesting
and basically new to me.
I'd rather have Rios steal 50 bases than hit 50 home runs. I want production.
i think this is because
marginal runs 8,9,10….20 are not really worth much.
if you score 12 runs, odds of winning must be 95%, 13 runs maybe 96%.
if you score 4 runs, odds of winning may be 35%, 5 runs, 55%.
i’m just tossing numbers out my ass, but that’s the idea.
that is in fact what the article states
I'd rather have Rios steal 50 bases than hit 50 home runs. I want production.
i remember reading about the inverse being true at some point
i.e. inconsistent pitching is better, which follows logically from consistent offense scores more runs.
I'd rather have Rios steal 50 bases than hit 50 home runs. I want production.
The article was more about scoring runs,
how the Sox didn’t have a lot of high scoring games (or even low scoring games) they concentrated their runs in the 4-5 run department where they had the most effectiveness in influence on W vs. L.
Twitter: @SouthSideCheat
SouthSideSox on Facebook
"I'd rather have Rios steal 50 bases than hit 50 home runs."
In Seattle, a resigned sigh escapes the lips of a foul-mouthed angel. ~wu
by homesickalien on Mar 2, 2010 3:38 PM CST up reply actions
D Cabrera apparently looks great.....
if you are fan of walks.
Could be a Mike McDougle type bullpen guy.
2010 WhiteSox Baseball: "even if it works it's still stupid"
Better than a Ryan Buckvitch type bullpen guy.
2010 WhiteSox Baseball: "even if it works it's still stupid"
That's not saying much.
Calgon, take me away.
Wow ran across this while looking.
Some of Aaron Gleeman’s early work
Kenwo notice the section on the Pods/Lee deal. (And I realize I said I’d given up on you)
Conclusion:
Though the White Sox did not compensate for their biggest offensive loss (Carlos Lee) they were able to use the money saved on his contract to pick up 5 players, and fill 4 holes in their lineup. It is really quite amazing what Ken Williams was able to do in just moving one contract. However, though the Sox may look like a different team, looking at the numbers shows that they are not necessarily better. I’m not going to go and predict a 90-win season or anything, but the White Sox are at least exciting again. How long that excitement lasts is the next question.
"You're lucky I'm retired"
Jack Bauer
I honestly forgot KW
tried to spend the money a few different times.
"You're lucky I'm retired"
Jack Bauer
I'm all for the trade.. just b/c if you win the World Series
It’s hard to complain about anything. But I can see where he’s coming from. If you just want to dump salary, why not trade the guy for prospects instead of average veterans?
In my mind though, there’s no need for an argument here, you’re just focused on different things. Kenwo.. his hatred of life and his want to complain about anything Sox related (oh, how the Kenwo will embrace old age, it will be truly spectacular) and you.. your love of World Series victories, regardless how you get them.
You both win.. you got the World Series celebration, he gets to make a point that KW could have won it even more efficiently then he had.
Spring training has started, it’s time to move on to 2010.
by Grinder in Training on Mar 2, 2010 1:54 PM CST up reply actions
eh i'd say it is over
but next time i give an opinion on anything he will be on it like jenna jamison…. we are enemies til the end!!!!!
Kenwo4life=ratings
Kenwo is white??!
In Seattle, a resigned sigh escapes the lips of a foul-mouthed angel. ~wu
by homesickalien on Mar 2, 2010 3:40 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
it was the steroids he took in an attempt to revive his little league career
RIP Jim Thome 1-25-2010
an AL team not having a DH is like a giraffe fucking a mule. - larry
So was Michael Jackson in the end.
I just don’t feel like killing anyone else for as long as I can help it.
I don't think so pal.....
Ken.W.o
Kenwo4life=ratings
by KenWo4LiFe on Mar 2, 2010 8:10 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Not sure if this is green but it should be.
"You two need to get a room filled with condoms and calculators!"
by Where Triples Go to Die on Mar 3, 2010 12:37 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Hey now!
I like it when people other than me go at eachothers throats!
"You two need to get a room filled with condoms and calculators!"
by Where Triples Go to Die on Mar 3, 2010 12:38 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
KW didn't want to dump salary
If you just want to dump salary, why not trade the guy for prospects instead of average veterans?
They added 10 million in salary between opening day ’04 and ’05. That money was going elsewhere. The team is positioned financially relative to the ALC such that it can more or less always and should compete.
I'd rather have Rios steal 50 bases than hit 50 home runs. I want production.
If you want to dump salary to spend it elsewhere
Why not trade him for prospects and then sign the middle of the road players off the free agent market. Is that a better description of Kenwo’s argument?
by Grinder in Training on Mar 2, 2010 2:32 PM CST up reply actions
not sure i really see the difference between prospects and what KW obtained.
their salaries were low and KW then did go sign players in the free agent market.
you mean prospects that were ready to play in '05?
like larry says, how is that different than what KW actually did?
I'd rather have Rios steal 50 bases than hit 50 home runs. I want production.
No..
I meant prospects as in young players that are in the minor leagues. Then sign Pods & Vizcaino equivilants in the free agent market.
So you sign the guys you did.. and a couple of other free agents instead of trading for Pods and Vizcaino. While trading Carlos Lee for prospects. It wasn’t like Carlos Lee’s contract was an albatross, he was a good player making reasonable money.
by Grinder in Training on Mar 2, 2010 3:00 PM CST up reply actions
I assume because KW expected them to provide surplus value
Pods and Viz were paid ~2MM in ‘09 dollars in 2005. That’s worth about a win or so. They actually contributed twice that. So KW likely could not have gone on the FA market and gotten similar value at cost.
I'd rather have Rios steal 50 bases than hit 50 home runs. I want production.
They also probably provided more value than any prospects would have.
You guys win. You can keep your little marked-out piece of internet territory. Spend your days communicating via keyboard with people too ugly for the real world and too nerdy for anyone to care, anyway. Your piece of land is here. Do the rest of civilization a favor and stay within its limits. You bore me. Have fun with your nightly sobs and screams into your pillow over your inability to attract a good mate, Radiohead. ~The Hooligan
by Daniel Berlyn on Mar 2, 2010 6:39 PM CST up reply actions
I think I enjoy your sig more every single time you comment, DB.
In Seattle, a resigned sigh escapes the lips of a foul-mouthed angel. ~wu
by homesickalien on Mar 2, 2010 10:39 PM CST up reply actions
increasing marginal utility!
I'd rather have Rios steal 50 bases than hit 50 home runs. I want production.
kenny understands prospects as being fairly liquid
so he could have flipped them thereafter or something like that. but yeah, if left in the minors they obviously contribute nothing to the major league club’s WAR.
I'd rather have Rios steal 50 bases than hit 50 home runs. I want production.
dann can we get Juan juan off the front page?
I’m embarrassed to pull this ish up at the office in front of all the Yankee fans. Mets fans are scared of me cause I will tear their team to crap, but I got nothing against Yanks fans.
have you told those mets fans about how many wins they lost to injury over the last decade?
most in the NL, iirc
I'd rather have Rios steal 50 bases than hit 50 home runs. I want production.
i have, mets fans around here are in a perma depression
rightfully so after the last 4 years they’ve had.
Bad enough for me with the Cub fans around here...
Best game I ever attended was the 163rd game in 2008. Thanks John Danks and Jim Thome.
by NorthSidePaulie on Mar 2, 2010 2:54 PM CST up reply actions
I'd much rather be surrounded by Yankee fans.
At least their arrogance is warranted. I don’t even find them quite as obnoxious as Cubs or Red Sox fans.
Only warranted last year in recent times.
The default entitlement attitude during the other less successful years was pretty grating too. I suppose the generally higher baseball knowledge compared to the Cub fans does make them ever so slightly more tolerable though. Same goes for Red Sox fans.
Best game I ever attended was the 163rd game in 2008. Thanks John Danks and Jim Thome.
by NorthSidePaulie on Mar 2, 2010 3:25 PM CST up reply actions
It's the difference between being surrounded by people who are talking too loudly on their cell phones
and people who are simply psychotic.
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on South Side Sox
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
In Association With
Big League Stew - MLB - Yahoo! Sports
- Five tips for Showtime’s second season of ‘The Franchise,’ featuring the Miami Marlins
- The 10 best things about being a Detroit Tigers fan
- Surprise! A’s finally end the Yoenis Cespedes derby with $36 million deal for Cuban star
- The time Whitney Houston sang to Jim Bowden
- Pitchers and catchers! Mariners get early start in Arizona
Certain photos copyright © 2012 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
