Dayan Viciedo Is Not Doing Much to Shake the 'Bust' Label
by The Cheat on Mar 8, 2010 11:23 PM CST
235 comments
Dayan Viciedo is making big impressions early in camp. Unfortunately, they're the wrong type of impressions to be making. On Saturday he looked comically overmatched by average minor-league breaking stuff (in the thin air of Arizona), and Monday he loafed to first base "running" out a ground ball in a 'B' game and caught the ire of the Kenny Williams. Ozzie was quick to defend, um, his own similar reaction.
"I was more upset than Kenny was," Guillen said in a calm tone. "We don't put up with that stuff here. And we don't like players playing like that, especially like a kid who just played Double-A last year. Especially the way the minor-league kids are playing right now, the way they're playing well and hustling. I talked to him in the dugout before Kenny came down. I talked to him in the dugout after Kenny came down, and he promised me it won't happen again."
- Greg Walker, weatherman, says it's warm in the Greater Phoenix area. But it could get cold at any time.
"It's still very, very early," said Walker, speaking following Monday's B game tie with the Dodgers. "Considering the time here, we're good, we're doing well here."
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Juan Pierre gets the New York Times treatment, wakes up earlier than Chone Figguns. WU scoffs at his "late" 4 AM wakeup time.
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Don Cooper got mercilessly heckled late in yesterday's game. Don. Cooper.
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I see why they would come down on Viciedo....
but they should come down on some of the lazy fucks on the major league roster…. most notably Paul Konerko who has been the laziest player I have ever seen over the last 11 years…. and being “slow” isn’t an excuse for being lazy. AJ is slow as hell but at least he hustles.
Kenwo4life=ratings
do you realize how silly you sound with this shit?
what the fuck are you talking about? Konerko isn’t and doesn’t have a reputation for being lazy. That’s not something like a manager would have in his team captain. This is just beyond dumb.
"You're lucky I'm retired"
Jack Bauer
well take a look at this year when he pops up 150 times
or hits a lazy grounder to short…. he gets about 3 feet out of the box. Or maybe if he is on first and there is a hit to right and he jogs to second with no intention of making it to third. He’s extremely lazy…. and he’s been that way since he was 23 years old.
Kenwo4life=ratings
the rulez don't apply to pauly....
he’s white.
also he's a grizzled veteran. He earned it.
I hear old man Vizquel isn’t even gonna bat.
PLEASE BE TRUE!!!
Good star loved exited very exited
You're right, John Ratings Landecker. I remember when that bum Konerko loafed around the bases in Game 2.
What a lazy bum.
John Ratings Landecker
It doesn’t have the same rhythm as Records, but I’m still rolling. :D
In Seattle, a resigned sigh escapes the lips of a foul-mouthed angel. ~wu
by homesickalien on Mar 9, 2010 11:23 AM CST up reply actions
holy shit
i don’t believe i’m the only one who thinks konerko dogs it! this is amazing.
Kenwo4life=ratings
It's not all that amazing, considering your stance on Ozzie.
Amazing is when you find common ground with somebody!
bullshit.
konerko is a dog… and doesn’t hustle for shit… and now that he is a vet it is acceptable… but he’s been doing that shit since he came to the sox. not that any of it matters…. just find it funny they are going balls out on Viciedo when the fucking captain does the same shit.
Kenwo4life=ratings
You're not the only one. I'm with you.
What you’re talking about is the double standard and you’re right. I like Pauly but here’s a guy who has gone half seasons not getting it done and he doesn’t catch enough hell for it. I also feel similarly about Buehrle sometimes but that’s another conversation.
I think we have pretty much discussed and destroyed this nonsense about several half seasons of non performance.
Its simply false. People its like real easy to look at his historical stats you know? And 1 of the half seasons (08) he played thru an injury. You know how many season Konerko has less than a .800 OPS for a half since the beginning of the 04 season? One. Wow. Sound the alarm. A major league batter went a half season with slump like stats. Lets go back to the beginning of 2000. How many halfs total of under .800 OPS? Wait for it. Two! Goodness put that man in jail.
"You're lucky I'm retired"
Jack Bauer
Look I'm not trying to condemn the guy
I love Konerko like everyone else. I mean he is a World Series Hero. Look I don’t know about injuries but you have to admit, that there have been a couple of seasons where he has mentally checked out for halves of seasons. Not a few games. not a stretch. But whole halves of seasons. It’s just the truth.
What part about my post didn't you understand?
I’m not accusing you of unnatural Kenwo hate. But you said: “Not a few games. not a stretch. But whole halves of seasons. It’s just the truth.”
No. That’s not the truth. The truth is he had 1 half in (08) and 1 in (03) with less than a half of .800 OPS. That’s 2 in 20. What truth are looking at?
"You're lucky I'm retired"
Jack Bauer
The truth YOU just stated.
Im talking about what I’ve seen watching the games and the seasons he’s played. Paul Konerko has had seasons in which he has struggled for extended amounts of time for the better part of half a season. You just stated those 2 seasons. ’03 and ’08 respectively.
I’m not talking about just talking OPS and basing it on seasons after 2004. I’m talking 2 specific seasons in which he wasn’t being the player in the lineup that he needed to be in order to help the team. That is the truth. These are season where he literally fell off the map. To the point that he wasn’t of help and was a direct detriment in those seasons. So yes the ‘03 season and the ’08 seasons are two of the season in which he struggled. What isn’t accurate from my original statement?
Are you freaking serious?
Are you really trying to imply that a major hitter that has 2 bad halves out of his last 20 is somehow unusal for all but the elite hitters. One of the seasons he fought a hand injury and the team won the division anyway. Your implication was it was preventable and he somehow stopped trying. The implication it was several seasons thereby indicating a trend. There is nothing accurate about that. Do you really want me to compare Konerko’s half season’s performance with the rest of the team for the last 10 years? Or any major league player for that matter.
“I’m not talking OPS?” What the hell are you using? Batting avg?
“These are seasons where he literally fell off the map” Really? In 08 he rebounded to post a .900 OPS the second half after getting a little healthier to round out the season at .783. 2003 fits your bill, so there you go. Other than that since he became a regular in 1999, Konerko has had as close to typical arch for a player of his talent as one can get.
Basically what you are doing would be like me saying that .300 hitter sucks or let me down because he made outs 7 other times in his at bats. Yeah its correct he failed x amount of times, but pie in the sky unrealistic.
Frankly its just a cop out because I called you on the man’s actual stats.
"You're lucky I'm retired"
Jack Bauer
Have fun with those stats buddy
I still don’t see where what I said in my comments isn’t true. But hey a man gotta have his stats.
fuck konerko.
I like Dils.. he’s my protege. hopefully he works out better than WU’s did.
Kenwo4life=ratings
This is fantastic.
Jim Leyritz- Didn’t like him as a player and then he killed that broad driving drunk.
have fun making arguments supported with evidence, buddy.
i just make statements with nothing quantifiable to back them up.
but hey, a man gotta have his methods for reasoning.
These events have me frightened and on the verge of evacuating my bowels.
by thatshortkid on Mar 10, 2010 7:14 PM CST up reply actions
Paul Konerko says:
“You know what, asshole? Yeah, I’m slow and I bounced into a few double plays, had a couple of off years, and looked like I should have been put on suicide watch. What of it? I won your sorry as shit franchise a World Series for the first, and possibly only, time in many of your adult lives, and you’re going to shit on me in favor of Rex Grossman? Fuck you."
not too many other catchers
that back up the throw to first.
I'd rather have Rios steal 50 bases than hit 50 home runs. I want production.
In my meathead opinion, he's a frontrunner that tries only when he feels like.
But, I also understand that both AJ and Konerko aren’t exactly physical specimens that are capable of pulling off infield hits.
by Ozzie Montana on Mar 9, 2010 6:50 PM CST up reply actions
Then that's pretty pathetic. He shouldn't look like Frank Thomas circa 2010.
by Ozzie Montana on Mar 10, 2010 2:28 PM CST up reply actions
hey i didn't sign him.
kennys the jagoff that signed him when everyone said he was big. I’m just saying don’t get mad at him for dogging it when your captain does it too.
Kenwo4life=ratings
chocolate chocolate chocolate!
I'd rather have Rios steal 50 bases than hit 50 home runs. I want production.
Annoying self-loathing
Annoying self-loathing
Best game I ever attended was the 163rd game in 2008. Thanks John Danks and Jim Thome.
by NorthSidePaulie on Mar 9, 2010 3:16 AM CST up reply actions
Dayan
Hot Fire!
In Seattle, a resigned sigh escapes the lips of a foul-mouthed angel. ~wu
by homesickalien on Mar 9, 2010 11:24 AM CST up reply actions
pierre has a bit of JO in him
"I was walking around mad — ‘I’m going to show them I don’t like being a reserve player’ — and it got me nowhere the whole year," Pierre said. "That’s why last year I decided to let it go and let God handle it."
by onlysoxfaninbasel on Mar 9, 2010 1:59 AM CST reply actions
~
In Seattle, a resigned sigh escapes the lips of a foul-mouthed angel. ~wu
by homesickalien on Mar 9, 2010 11:39 AM CST up reply actions
God doesn't always have the best Goddamn plans
by CatBrains on Mar 9, 2010 12:07 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
i was at the game today
and the dude that heckled coop was a complete tool, and mitchell can fly around them bases…very excited to see his future
You'd have to be a serious no-lifer to heckle a pitching coach, and a very successful one at that.
2010 WhiteSox Baseball: "even if it works it's still stupid"
That's my question?
Does he know him personally? I mean who dislikes Don Cooper of all people? I don’t really understand heckling at a spring training game to begin with, but the very successful, likeable pitching coach?
by Grinder in Training on Mar 9, 2010 8:23 AM CST up reply actions
No
But I’m not really much of a heckler. Hell.. I didn’t even boo Rex Grossman, so I may not be the guy to ask. As long as it looks like they are trying hard, I’m not going to waste energy on making a guy’s day worse. I don’t see what I would get out of it. Considering I want them to do well, it just doesn’t really make sense to me. Linebrink was pretty awful, but it never appeared to me that it was from a lack of effort, or that it didn’t get to him. He seemed plenty miserable enough, me telling him he sucks isn’t going to make him pitch better next time.
I guess it’s possible some players would strive off the emotion of being booed and it’d make them perform better, but I believe most would rather be cheered by their own fans. If a guy doesn’t run something out, sure.. or if he puts a shaving cream pie into a guys face on a regular basis. I’m all for it.
by Grinder in Training on Mar 9, 2010 10:17 AM CST up reply actions
What about booing a manager's decision?
I think there are different levels of heckling. I agree with you, I’m not one for yelling insults – it’s just unnecessary. Most people who do it are just jackasses trying to draw attention to themselves. But if a player doesn’t perform on a repeated basis, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with fans letting out their frustration, whether it be directed at the player, or at the manager for putting the player in that position.
I'd think that's pretty different
I’m not saying you shouldn’t heckle anyone, just that I don’t see a point to heckling a player who is doing everything they can to help your team win. It’s just an opinion.
A manager making decisions you believe are incorrect, is not the same as a guy who can no longer put movement on his fastball. One is controllable, one I’d believe is probably out of the guys hands. I’m sure if Linebrink could pitch like Mariano Rivera every time he was out there, he would do so. Ozzie making bad decisions is something he can fix.
by Grinder in Training on Mar 9, 2010 10:26 AM CST up reply actions
And by "letting out frustration" I mean something along the lines of booing.
Not telling the guy his mother’s a whore.
heckling a guy during practice seems kind of stupid.
but i’m not much of a heckler either, particularly of players on my team.
I tend to agree...
…with the exception of Grossman or MacDougal. They should be booed walking down the street.
I don't understand the Grossman thing
Never have, never will. You’d think the guy was fighting dogs, or running over pedestrians while driving drunk.
by Grinder in Training on Mar 9, 2010 10:29 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
We're not going to find common ground on this one. He was simply terrible.
But not just that, he actually got worse over time – his fundamentals completely regressed. And this is admittedly anecdotal, but whenever the camera panned to him on the sideline, he also never seemed to be studying the charts or talking to the booth. Orton always seemed to be looking at the plays.
Possible
That Grossman was more prepared going into the game than Orton, and didn’t need to look at as many charts during the game. That looking at charts thing is probably the stupidest argument I’ve ever heard, and the one that annoys me the most. If the coaches thought he should look at the charts, they’d have made him look at the charts or talk to the booth. Clearly they didn’t think it was an issue.
The fact is, there are plenty of awful players, that have regressed that have played for the Chicago Bears. Much worse individuals, on and off the field and yet they never got booed like Rex (Cade McNown for example..). It was group think that snowballed and it became the cool thing to do for meathead fans. I’ve never seen a legitimate argument otherwise.
Matt Forte was a disaster last year. Where are the boos for him walking down the street? Nathan Vasher fell off a cliff and is getting paid big money, no one is booing him walking down the street.
by Grinder in Training on Mar 9, 2010 10:45 AM CST up reply actions
Your first paragraph is just as much of a presumption as mine, you're just giving him the benefit of the doubt.
I think a lot of it is born out of expectations – none of those other players had the ceiling that we thought Grossman had or was a first round draft pick (except for McNown, who did take a lot of heat, deservedly so, and who I similarly loathed). Plus I didn’t personally care for Grossman’s attitude. Hey, some people like Sarah Palin, to each their own.
I agree Forte and Vasher were extremely frustrating last year. But the team as a whole was so much worse than what Grossman had to play with. The O line collapsed, they had no pass rush, Urlacher was hurt, and they had terrible safeties. They just weren’t very good as a whole.
I guess I’m just a meathead fan. Mmm, meat.
Exactly.
That’s my point, that what you said has no basis in fact. You have no way to know that a guy who has a higher wunderlic score then Peyton Manning or Drew Brees and built his own video room at his house wasn’t prepared for the games. You’re hating a guy for something that you yourself say you can only presume to be true.
I’m not going around booing Kyle Orton b/c I think he’s so unprepared he has to look at charts the entire time he’s off the field.
Grossman played with some god awful talent too. I still don’t see what separates him from so many other disasters that have been employed by the Bears.
by Grinder in Training on Mar 9, 2010 1:01 PM CST up reply actions
I dunno
Grossman had a much better offensive line than Orton did, it was just harder to see because Grossman took 5 seconds to take a 5 step drop. The real reason that I believe Grossman should be booed is his reaction to being told that he was going to have to compete with Orton for the starting job. He just completely shut it down mentally and bitched and moaned about how it wasn’t fair. Fuck that, everyone should have to compete for the starting job every year.
Slightly off topic, his dad seemed like a complete tool last year when he bad mouthed the bears to the media for approximately no reason.
I'm feverishly looking all over for the quote
that Grossman was “He just completely shut it down mentally and bitched and moaned about how it wasn’t fair”. Please help me find the article with those quotes. No worries I’ll save you the time because THEY DON’T EXIST!!
by Dils on Mar 10, 2010 9:50 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Read more closely, I prefaced what I said by saying it was anecdotal, and it wasn't my primary point.
Plus it has some basis in fact because I saw it.
The fact he had a higher wunderlic score than Manning is pretty irrelevant. If anything it’s another nice argument in support of why we should be disappointed in his performance.
Bottom line, when I see a former 1st round QB who routinely fumbles snaps, backpedals 15 yards, never steps into the pocket, never scrambles, perpetually throws off his back foot, sucks ass in the super bowl, yet is smarter than Peyton Manning, I don’t think it’s completely crazy to dislike or boo him.
Grossman played with a team that went to the super bowl, he had Thomas Jones and Bernard Berrian, and a much better offensive line. I don’t think they were grossly untalented.
Ahhhhh, I get it.
Alligator Army…You’re a Gators fan. It all makes sense now. No wonder you’re such a Grossman apologist.
Rex Grossman's NFL career has been mediocre.
Rex Grossman, as a person, handled some of the most unfounded, pathetic fan treatment a Chicago athlete has ever endured with nothing but class. Never did he bitch about the hoards of clowns who hated him for no reason and treated him like shit. He should’ve been a dick. He had every right to say, “You know what, assholes? Yeah, I threw some picks. What of it? I took your sorry shit franchise to a Super Bowl for the first time in many of your adult lives, and you’re going to shit on me in favor of a guy who can’t throw the ball? Fuck you.”
I hate nearly all of my fellow Bears fans primarily because of the Grossman stuff. It’s a fan base of brain-dead losers.
In other words, Bears fans are just as bad as Cubs fans.
by RWShow on Mar 9, 2010 3:50 PM CST up reply actions 8 recs
I hardly give a shit about NFL, but I fully agree with this.
In Seattle, a resigned sigh escapes the lips of a foul-mouthed angel. ~wu
by homesickalien on Mar 9, 2010 3:59 PM CST up reply actions
Mediocre?
He has a career QB rating under 70. That’s simply bad. Say what you want, but the guy who “can’t throw the ball,” has now put up two seasons in a row that were better than anything Grossman was ever able to manage.
And what exactly is the proper response when a player stinks? Sit silently on your hands? Yell encouraging things, like “atta boy Rex, get them next time?” Pray for him at night? Maybe just wait till next year?
I’m sorry, I don’t feel sorry for the guy. The fans gave him a lot of rope and were desperate for him to do well. I think people pulled for him for a pretty long time before they turned on him. He’ll have made more money in 5 years than many of us will make in a lifetime. So he got booed and criticized on talk radio. Big deal, I don’t think that was unfounded or all that pathetic. The joke’s on those of us who paid any money or wasted any time watching him pretend to be a starting NFL QB.
I'm not going to waste my time arguing with you about his play. You judge QBs on one statistic, I judge them by scouting their, you know, actual play. So I more than agree to disagree with you there.
But like Grinder attempted to explain to you, a lot of Bears have sucked a lot worse than Rex, and very few of them were as likable or handled their criticism with as much class and grace as he did.
Remarkably, the more Rex displayed an exemplary attitude, the more the fans seemed to vilify him and make him out to be some careless, evil jerk. It was one of the dumbest movements in the dumb-movement-rich history of this city, and it made me feel badly that a very nice guy was being treated like the Antichrist. Nobody from Jim Harbaugh to Assclown McNown to Peter Tom Willis to Rick Mirer was treated with as much venom as Rex Grossman. Was is play inconsistent and often maddening? Yes. Did I yell at the TV many times watching him play? Of course. But the treatment he received was so uncalled for that it was disgusting. If you didn’t ever feel the least bit badly for how he was treated, there is something wrong with you.
Uh
Nope. I think your interpretation of how he acted is very subjective. Note what I wrote above about him being a compete pussy about having to compete for the starting job after playing like a bag of dicks. I’m not gonna say he was the anti-christ, but he definitely was not what you are making him out to be. In fact, you getting so worked up over this makes me believe that you in fact are Rex.
And if you judged him on actual play, you would know he sucked. QB rating is a terrible fucking statistic, so that means nothing. But he DEFINITELY fucking blew at playing the game of football.
Sigh
Yes, I said he played like a complete pussy. Notice I said it after I said an interpretation of his behavior is subjective. What I did is show a difference of opinion, thus SUBJECTIVE. Get a fucking dictionary maybe.
Reading comprehension is a skill you should acquire.
My point was that you can’t criticize what I wrote for being subjective if you immediately follow that criticism with something subjective.
Well, I mean, you can… but it just reinforces my already astoundingly low opinion of your argument.
Holy God
Seriously dude. Your whole argument revolves around the fact that you think he acted with class and did not deserve what happened to him. I pointed out your opinion was subjective, thus people do not share it. My disagreement with what you think means I believe differently, thus a difference of opinion. You wrote your goddamn opinion, I wrote mine. The whole goddamn point of my fucking post was that you can have differing opinions about how he acted.
Get past high school, we’ll talk after.
What about his, you know, actual play was defensible?
But you’re right, you’ve hit the nail on the head and seen through my words. There’s clearly something wrong with me. How could I be so blind? I need serious help. I’m a heartless contemptible bastard who molests puppies and taunts old women. I was probably a war criminal in another life.
I eat because I’m unhappy, and I’m unhappy because I eat. It’s a vicious cycle. Now if you’ll excuse me, there’s someone I need to get in touch with and forgive: Rex Grossman.
by ExileDC on Mar 9, 2010 4:37 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Mind you, I propose we just agree to disagree.
I suppose the horse has already left the barn, but this whole Grossman discussion is way off topic.
this is SSS
not some place that cares.
I'd rather have Rios steal 50 bases than hit 50 home runs. I want production.
the average post
has some thread that ends up somewhere definitely not baseball. today it’s the bears.
I'd rather have Rios steal 50 bases than hit 50 home runs. I want production.
The huge overlap suggests 815 is on to something.
I used to imagine that the stupidity of Bears fans was limited to those who were also Cubs fans. But alas, this thread has proven me wrong. Tragic.
I was there
Remember being instructed by my parents to lie about going to the baseball game and telling my teacher I was sick the following day, after that score I may have been
Being prepared before the game is one thing
Making adjustments during the game is another.
Half time of that superbowl I knew it was over.
The Bears had a small lead but they stayed the course, it was their MO, the Colts adjusted and dominated.
That's the coaches job.
Boo Lovie Smith then. Rex Grossman isn’t the one calling plays or the reason the defense fell apart and made no adjustments.
by Grinder in Training on Mar 9, 2010 1:02 PM CST up reply actions
The Bears lost that Super Bowl because the beloved defense gave up 200 yards on the ground to a passing team.
Rex didn’t help. But it wasn’t on him.
Err
Thats because we were sitting in a base cover 2 defense with everyone keyed against the pass. You have to take into account what our defense was trying to do, and it definitely was to stop manning.
according to whom?
i don’t watch the NFL, but if there were ever a league that got shitty analysis from every angle down pat…
I'd rather have Rios steal 50 bases than hit 50 home runs. I want production.
"But not just that, he actually got worse over time – his fundamentals completely regressed. "
I'd rather have Rios steal 50 bases than hit 50 home runs. I want production.
You are being way too nit picky here colin.
Its not like fundamentals are much different in baseball. I mean throwing off a back foot is throwing off a back foot. I like Rex but most paid observers seemed to concur that he was regressing with these types of issues.
In baseball if a fielder is getting into a poor stance in approaching balls he probably has problems….
"You're lucky I'm retired"
Jack Bauer
I don't know what the hell this has to do with booing him
over other players who regress though. The Bears have had plenty.
"You're lucky I'm retired"
Jack Bauer
Its hard to play well
When your offense cannot stay on the field for more than 3-4 plays. Demoralizing and tiring.
It's also hard when you play Cover 2
The entire game when Peyton Manning decided they weren’t going to try any deep plays.
Grossman was a terrible QB, but Lovie Smith and Ron Rivera were equally shitty.
by Ozzie Montana on Mar 9, 2010 3:06 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah, the Cover-2 is antiquated
When you run it every play, as we did/do. Especially when you run a vanilla version of it that pretty much can’t stop any route run. Seriously, a team could legitimately run post patterns on 70% of their plays, and we would maybe stop one.
Actually, I think Rivera was an above average DC. Compared to the shitfest that has gone through here since then. I know we still have literally all of the same players who are older or worse players who are…worse. But that defense ran MUCH more efficiently when Ron was calling the plays. He understood that you have to give different looks and attempt to confuse the offense.
It also didn’t help than Danieal Manning decided to jump a slot in and leave Reggie Wayne wide open…sorta the turning point of the game.
it's antiquated
but NFL teams run it all the time?
I'd rather have Rios steal 50 bases than hit 50 home runs. I want production.
There is a difference
between running the cover-2 as a defensive set, and having it be the basis of your entire scheme. Other teams run it with much more variation than we do.
Most NFL teams mix between C1 and C2, no?
5 underneath defenders isn’t that few.
I'd rather have Rios steal 50 bases than hit 50 home runs. I want production.
Yeah
Also a peppering of C3 and quarters. The problem with the Cover-2 in the incarnation we run it is not the amount of defenders covering underneath. It is the position we are putting our linebackers in to try and cover slot receivers on a consistent basis while still trying to stay true to a zone. It doesn’t help that our vanilla cover-2 has predetermined zones which the exact same people usually cover. Makes it very easy to read and bust on a consistent basis.
predetermined zones?
i.e. they aren’t pattern reading? if that’s what you’re saying, i doubt it’s true. the only other thing i can think you might be saying is they don’t mix up responsibilities enough, but there are only so many options based on the way you set your front.
by and large it isn’t a matter of scheme that loses games, it’s players. so i’m skeptical of your claims.
I'd rather have Rios steal 50 bases than hit 50 home runs. I want production.
Normally
I would agree that player talent is by and large the determining factor. However, I believe with all of my heart that we run one of the worst defensive schemes in all of the NFL, and that this does have an effect on our success.
What I mean by predetermined zones is that our defense is very heavily focused on try to take away certain areas of the field, and we try and take away those same areas every play. Other areas we usually leave open, such as short slants or the gap between the safety on either side and the OLB dropping back into coverage. I was not referring to not reading patterns and trying to cover it when they are in your zone.
And there are tons of options for responsibilities, such as C2, C3, Quarters, but having safeties drop into short zones and corners dropping back to take deep parts of the field.
that sounds like a problem of trying to compensate for a lack of talent
it’s almost never the case that casual observers are in a position to critique scheme. and as you note, there was in fact a huge talent disparity. if that’s the case, it’s not going to be compensated via scheme.
I'd rather have Rios steal 50 bases than hit 50 home runs. I want production.
for instance
if you’re getting beat by the post from the slot as much as you say, then the LBs aren’t carrying the seam properly or are just overmatched against the slot. but if it’s the latter, then that’s a personnel issue, not a scheme issue.
I'd rather have Rios steal 50 bases than hit 50 home runs. I want production.
I wasn't
referring to the post just from the slot, although that kills us too. I was referring to post patterns run by the outside receivers, where we are too worried about them going over the top and give a huge cushion. I will admit that some of the issues come from personnel problems (terrible safeties, dearth of coverage ability at either OLB spot), however, the scheme is doing us no favors. We almost never take risk, and it makes us very predictable.
so you admit to there being a serious talent problem
but want to blame scheme?
I'd rather have Rios steal 50 bases than hit 50 home runs. I want production.
Why
Do they have to be mutually exclusive? I think it is kind of foolish to say that the problem cannot be scheme just because we also lack talent in certain areas.
I am a fan of Rex.
I had to let him go, just like BA. I agree though I never got the hate for the guy. People act like he didn’t contribute in 06. Hell their 5-0 start was very much because of him.
"You're lucky I'm retired"
Jack Bauer
Poor misunderstood BA
I used to love seeing the tag line “BA would have caught that.” Yeah, I have a #32 Anderson jersey and was loath to give up on him. I think he did great in his limited role with Boston and he is looking pretty good in Royals spring training. Can he ever put it all together? It will be hard, especially with general opinion on him down hard. It may be painful sometimes to watch him at the plate, but seeing him grace the outfield like a gazelle will always be a tremendous pleasure.
by Carthago Delenda Est on Mar 9, 2010 11:25 AM CST up reply actions
I edited this cuz that's what I do sometimes.
“It may be is horrifyingly painful sometimes to watch him at the plate….”
In Seattle, a resigned sigh escapes the lips of a foul-mouthed angel. ~wu
by homesickalien on Mar 9, 2010 11:37 AM CST up reply actions
I've made the Grossman/BA comparison before,
but the difference is I don’t think BA worked as hard as Grossman did, and I know BA never had nearly the success Grossman had.
he has a ring
RIP Jim Thome 1-25-2010
an AL team not having a DH is like a giraffe fucking a mule. - larry
I don't know if he was inebriated or not
but he seemed to enjoy he’s time in the spotlight and getting a rise out of the crowd, coop kept trying to get him to come to the dugout and settle it like men, was pretty funny but the dude is an ass for trying to talk shit during st
"Bust" he's only what 19-20 years old?
give him another full year in the minors before we throw that label at him. Not happy with the lack of effort, though Im sure it wont happen again this spring training.
2010 WhiteSox Baseball: "even if it works it's still stupid"
After slogging through that mess of Bears talk just to get here, I have honestly forgotten what this threat was about.
Are you talking about MacDougal?
Reporter: I was wondering if at any point in my lifetime the Cubs weren't going to be run by a guy who didn't immediately remind me of failure, confusion, or imminent death
Bad day
Nathan may need Tommy John surgery:
by 67WMAQ on Mar 9, 2010 8:08 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
That's rough
We’ll have to see who goes down next from BM’s thread of hated players.
Beyond the obvious fact that Joe Nathan is really good, $11.25 million to the DL for the season is pretty brutal for any team, but the Twins especially.
by Grinder in Training on Mar 9, 2010 8:28 AM CST up reply actions
i've always liked nathan.
for the players i don’t like though, while i don’t root for them to get injured, sometimes it doesn’t bother me too much.
you are certainly one of the more ridiculous people on this board. ~ larry
The Twins payroll is now comparable to the White Sox.
You guys win. You can keep your little marked-out piece of internet territory. Spend your days communicating via keyboard with people too ugly for the real world and too nerdy for anyone to care, anyway. Your piece of land is here. Do the rest of civilization a favor and stay within its limits. You bore me. Have fun with your nightly sobs and screams into your pillow over your inability to attract a good mate, Radiohead. ~The Hooligan
by Daniel Berlyn on Mar 9, 2010 9:09 AM CST up reply actions
That's my point
Their payroll is already higher then it’s been in a long time, so if they lose 11.25 million to the DL, they’ll be in quite the bind. They’ve already increased payroll a ton, I can’t imagine they have a lot of room to work with right now.
by Grinder in Training on Mar 9, 2010 9:12 AM CST up reply actions
Nathan's elbow should have come with a warranty
probably a mistake on the Twins part to give him that extension. Still, their team is solid enough that they probably could make it through the season without a big trade.
You guys win. You can keep your little marked-out piece of internet territory. Spend your days communicating via keyboard with people too ugly for the real world and too nerdy for anyone to care, anyway. Your piece of land is here. Do the rest of civilization a favor and stay within its limits. You bore me. Have fun with your nightly sobs and screams into your pillow over your inability to attract a good mate, Radiohead. ~The Hooligan
by Daniel Berlyn on Mar 9, 2010 9:23 AM CST up reply actions
Don't they have insurance policies against that kind of thing?
I would imagine that no organization would throw down $11.25MM without hedging their bets (in the literal, financial sense).
[Also, that’s not meant as an argument, but an actual question. Where are all the money men on this?]
White Sox fan; Jeppson's Malort man
by KarkoviceIsHawt on Mar 9, 2010 9:46 AM CST up reply actions
I know there are some
but seems improbable they could get any decent type of insurance policy on a 34 year pitcher…..
"You're lucky I'm retired"
Jack Bauer
It might not be decent but Im sure they have one.
I recall a story from last year about the Padres content to keep Peavy on the shelf so the insurance could pay him instead of the club.
I know nothing about these contracts in regards to insurance
So this could be a stupid question. But would it matter if it’s a longer contract? He only has a team option for next year from what I’ve read, so this may not be relevant because this could be the end of the deal, but lets say he had a 3 year deal.
If he came back for years 2 and 3 of the deal, does the insurance still cover the first year he misses, or does it only cover it if he is unable to finish the contract? Or would it just vary from player to player?
by Grinder in Training on Mar 9, 2010 10:23 AM CST up reply actions
it varies.
my understanding is that contracts are usually insured in three year intervals and are renewable, cover about half the value of the contract and don’t kick in until a player is placed on the 60 day DL or missed 90 games (or something similar). the annual premium on a pitcher is usually 10% of the contract. i’d bet google could tell you more. i recall a recent story on this but can’t remember where.
I don't root for injuries
If the Sox were to beat the Twins – I want it to be legit.
Besides, he’s the closer. There’s a million ways to lose before you get to the 9th.
by 67WMAQ on Mar 9, 2010 9:04 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Twins games just got a lot longer
No more “Nathan’s in, ballgame over”
But knowing the Twins, the replacement will be the second coming of Eckersley.
Such is the way of teh Twinn…
This.
Injuries are a part of the game. You think they wept for us when Quentin went down? No way. If their team isn’t deep enough to overcome the loss of Nathan, then they aren’t that great a team. If we manage to win the division this year, it’ll still be totally legit (unless the Twins charter plane collides mid-air with the Tigers charter plan).
You guys are right
Sox lost Quentin in 2008, and still beat the Twins in game 163.
But – it doesn’t change the fact that they can hit the ball. Now if Mauer and Morneau have problems…that’s another story.
Agreed.
We just need to keep our emotions in check, stay on an even keel, worry about ourselves, play hard, and stick to the task at hand. It’s a long season, a marathon not a race, and anything can happen. If the good Lord is willing, maybe we’ll make some noise and make things interesting for the fans.
by ExileDC on Mar 9, 2010 9:36 AM CST up reply actions 3 recs
Not hit...
…pop-ups with runners on third and less than two outs?
Course it's boring, that's the point. Write it down.
I'd rather have Rios steal 50 bases than hit 50 home runs. I want production.
true on the million ways,
but losing an 11.25m all-star closer who’s been consistently lights out hurts a bit
Yes I always buy into relievers and closers can come from anywhere
BUT elite relievers are not just easy to come by. His WPA was 3.89 and his WPA/LI was 1.84. not too shabby. Of course I expect the Twins are in further this year and will probably do something.
"You're lucky I'm retired"
Jack Bauer
Gotta hurt
The Twins breed relief pitchers and fast utility players that kill the Sox so I’m sure they come up with something, either Guerrier or Rauch. Still, losing Nathan has to hurt and should cost the Twins at least a couple wins, maybe more if we’re lucky.
"I'm going to let my numbers speak for themselves."
truth, Ruth.
In Seattle, a resigned sigh escapes the lips of a foul-mouthed angel. ~wu
by homesickalien on Mar 9, 2010 11:32 AM CST up reply actions
Joe Nathan just heard the 3 worst words in professional sports.
DR. JAMES ANDREWS
FTW
In Seattle, a resigned sigh escapes the lips of a foul-mouthed angel. ~wu
by homesickalien on Mar 9, 2010 11:34 AM CST up reply actions
Go green, you magnificent bastard.
Jim Leyritz- Didn’t like him as a player and then he killed that broad driving drunk.
Scott Cameron Linebrink
#3worstwords
His name is Rios and he dances on the sand
by Nordhagen on Mar 9, 2010 11:04 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
1-2 wins max lost there
every little bit helps i guess.
I'd rather have Rios steal 50 bases than hit 50 home runs. I want production.
probably?
there’s a somewhat annoying technique called chaining that i’m not sure i am doing right. the longhand is the difference between nathan and the next best, the next best and the next next best, etc. etc. the shorthand should be something like whatever the difference between Nathan and the next best reliever is plus an estimated ripple effect. so i’m guessing a bit.
I'd rather have Rios steal 50 bases than hit 50 home runs. I want production.
wow
i didn’t realize how good Nathan has been over the past 6 seasons. you really can’t use FIP because he’s at the extremes where it breaks down somewhat.
I'd rather have Rios steal 50 bases than hit 50 home runs. I want production.
When you do research
it is amazing to see how utterly stupefied you become. Almost childlike.
Jim Leyritz- Didn’t like him as a player and then he killed that broad driving drunk.
So this means a Linebrink for Thomer trade is inevitable, right?
2010 WhiteSox Baseball: "even if it works it's still stupid"
by OznCoop on Mar 9, 2010 8:20 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
Linebrink for a bag of balls would be acceptable
"One more game and then we can blow this son of a b@#$* up!" - Hawk Harrelson on his thoughts regarding the Metrodome
who said bag of balls?
I’d kick in my expense check for them to take him for free.
"You're lucky I'm retired"
Jack Bauer
Look at you throwing the cash around.
Lest you forget, alimony is a mother. Save your wampum, Td.
Jim Leyritz- Didn’t like him as a player and then he killed that broad driving drunk.
Did mention
I don’t travel anymore. I don’t have an expense check anymore! :-)
"You're lucky I'm retired"
Jack Bauer
Do you think we could get 20,000 chickens from a farm for him?
Chicken giveaway day would be mighty sweet.
White Sox fan; Jeppson's Malort man
by KarkoviceIsHawt on Mar 9, 2010 11:12 AM CST up reply actions
He gone (probably)
Story here
"One more game and then we can blow this son of a b@#$* up!" - Hawk Harrelson on his thoughts regarding the Metrodome
almost exactly a year ago we were talking about Mauer missing significant time
then he came back and was god.
Also, the Twins seem to shit good relievers. IF Nathan’s out, it hurts them, but probably not as much as it appears.
His name is Rios and he dances on the sand
you're right i'll take a chance on him
just grabbed him in the SSS league.
"You're lucky I'm retired"
Jack Bauer
Because Guerrier is taken.
BWAHAHA!
Jim Leyritz- Didn’t like him as a player and then he killed that broad driving drunk.
A 40 year old chika hit a ringing double off Rauch in fantasy camp at 85+ MPH.
Worry not about Rauch.
Jim Leyritz- Didn’t like him as a player and then he killed that broad driving drunk.
NO NEED TO WORRY FAITHFUL FOLLOWERS OF THE TWINNERS. THIS JUST MEANS OL JIMBO HAS TO HIT A FEW MORE DINGERS.
In Seattle, a resigned sigh escapes the lips of a foul-mouthed angel. ~wu
by homesickalien on Mar 9, 2010 1:50 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Viciedo switches from Torres to Boras...
per MLBTR
You guys win. You can keep your little marked-out piece of internet territory. Spend your days communicating via keyboard with people too ugly for the real world and too nerdy for anyone to care, anyway. Your piece of land is here. Do the rest of civilization a favor and stay within its limits. You bore me. Have fun with your nightly sobs and screams into your pillow over your inability to attract a good mate, Radiohead. ~The Hooligan
The Twinky Dome Effect
Bad vibes are being sent to the baseball Gods, who are taking their retribution. This is just the first blow…
1st game at their new stadium will be played in a blizzard of biblical proportions.
Under hail the size of Q’s balls, Gardenhire will turn into a hulking 30 foot beast and he will duel with Jim “JI” Thome in a battle of good and evil not seen since game 163 of the 2008 season.
Thome will eventually prevail, breaking the curse. However, Thome’s career is over, his energy spent. His final act of good before ascending into the Hall of Fame.
Thome and Gardenhire and Nathan gone, the Twinks forgo the 2010 season and immediately hire Scott Boras (again, tempting the Fates) to renegotiate the lease on the Metrodome for 2011.
by madvillian on Mar 9, 2010 12:20 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
It's true that inaugural games can be a little rough. As you may recall...
4/18/91 @ Comiskey II – Detroit 16, Sox 0
"One more game and then we can blow this son of a b@#$* up!" - Hawk Harrelson on his thoughts regarding the Metrodome
what's the stadium patch look like?
after the mets’ citi field patch they have a hard act to follow
signature
Like this...
"One more game and then we can blow this son of a b@#$* up!" - Hawk Harrelson on his thoughts regarding the Metrodome
looks rather hopey/changey
Or the stadium as a giant crocodile eating the city (or rather a hodge-podge of building silouettes semi-approximating the skyline, sort of…)
His name is Rios and he dances on the sand
I like it
It’s a nice clean font, good use of the team’s color scheme, but I really admire how the park itself is abstracted to emphasize a) the city (cities?) and b) the fact that it’s not a crappy-ass dome. There’s nothing noting the sponsorship of the field, too. Quality stuff.
Thass bad karma, mang.
In Seattle, a resigned sigh escapes the lips of a foul-mouthed angel. ~wu
by homesickalien on Mar 9, 2010 1:33 PM CST up reply actions
oh, I laughed alright. But it's still bad karma! It's the second week of March and I'm already being superstitious about my baseballz. ack!
In Seattle, a resigned sigh escapes the lips of a foul-mouthed angel. ~wu
by homesickalien on Mar 9, 2010 4:39 PM CST up reply actions
You just worry about having to eat that live crow.
by South Side Expat on Mar 9, 2010 7:54 PM CST up reply actions
ah yes... Machinedruw
In Seattle, a resigned sigh escapes the lips of a foul-mouthed angel. ~wu
by homesickalien on Mar 9, 2010 8:47 PM CST up reply actions
Fucking excellent.
Jim Leyritz- Didn’t like him as a player and then he killed that broad driving drunk.
very nicea
recd
RIP Jim Thome 1-25-2010
an AL team not having a DH is like a giraffe fucking a mule. - larry
OG loves the OG (original grinder)
OzzieGuillen In my way to see few of my favorite playes uribe. Rowand. De rosas and bruce bochy
Well. Only one way to respond to this, as far as I'm concerned.
In Seattle, a resigned sigh escapes the lips of a foul-mouthed angel. ~wu
by homesickalien on Mar 12, 2010 10:32 AM CST up reply actions
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