How Large of a Sample Size Will It Take for the White Sox to Release Mark Kotsay?
by larry on Apr 18, 2010 3:13 PM CDT
in White Sox Game Recaps
Email
PrintOne might have thought 6168 plate appearances would have been enough for a major league baseball team to have realized that a player is not suitable for the purpose they were contemplating for him. However, the team in question is the White Sox, who have a habit of inexplicably clinging to the belief that veteran players, despite all evidence to the contrary, are, in fact, who they were eight years before.
Let's beat a dead horse here for a bit. Kotsay hadn't put up a wOBA above .335 since 2004. That number is important because it is approximately league average. A league average hitter would be an essentially replacement level DH. Kotsay's wOBAs since 2004: .321, .315, .253, .316, and .309. Even more amusing is the insistence to bat Kotsay third or fifth.
So how long will we be subjected to this? History suggests the pain will last. After being acquired, Ken Griffey Jr. played center for the rest of the 2008 season. Darin Erstad continued to bat first until he mercifully injured himself after 48 games. Considering Kotsay's injury-riddled past, perhaps that is the compassionate end for which we can pine.
But, of course, simply removing Kotsay from this team isn't likely to have much discernible impact. He's simply the bête noire for an overall poorly conceived offense. Despite what looked to be very good pitching, the White Sox projected to be an about .500 team before the season and, now that they've decided to start 4-9, the impetus to make changes isn't high. More likely is that the White Sox will continue to trot out their sunk costs, perhaps just somewhat lower in the order - just like they did with Erstad in 2007.
121 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Kotsay is a bench player at best
batting him third today was insane. Why Jones isn’t our full time DH baffles me.
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
Fuck that shit
"Let’s plunge ourselves into the roar of time, the whirl of accident; may pain and pleasure, success and failure, shift as they will- it’s only action that can make a man" Faust, Goethe
Then why
is Juan Pierre allowed to hit lefty vs lefty with a lifetime batting average of .007 in that situation in the seventh inning when we have a chance to get back in the game and Andruw Jones is one the bench? I guess you can’t disrespect Pierre.
by Gentleman Jim on Apr 18, 2010 4:46 PM CDT up reply actions
speed never slumps
Doesn’t seem very moral to me. Might as well take Satan’s autograph while you’re at it. - N.C.
by Illini0509 on Apr 18, 2010 5:59 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
nice
bigger potential problem: Sox starters aren’t doing so hot. take out the very very few HR ceded, and the Sox starters’ FIP is 6th worst in MLB. granted we’re only half-way toward K/BB ratio reliability, but it’s a little worrisome.
I'd rather have Rios steal 50 bases than hit 50 home runs. I want production.
We need something like 18-22 WAR From them to be
competitive. If the bullpen is really stepping up, then a bit less obvs, but all of that requires average position players an we ain’t getting that either.
I'd rather have Rios steal 50 bases than hit 50 home runs. I want production.
by colintj on Apr 18, 2010 4:02 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
You mean we won't hit .205 all year???
Thank God!
"God knows I gave my best in baseball at all times and no man on earth can truthfully judge me otherwise."
by Shoeless In SC on Apr 18, 2010 6:59 PM CDT up reply actions
I hope for your sake that you are using wOBA and not BA
You dont want to raise the ire of larry
It was then I realized vegans can’t be trusted
by Scotty Ballgame on Apr 18, 2010 9:39 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Care to elaborate?
is your concern more along the lines of, “the pitching staff is still going to be pretty good, but it needs to be even better than ‘pretty good’ to carry the offensive dreck to a playoff spot.” Or is it more (i.e. worse) than that?
it was definitely a question whether or not it would be able to do it in the first place
but above average was very likely. this is worse insofar as it’s a below average start. that’s simply unsustainable for this team.
I'd rather have Rios steal 50 bases than hit 50 home runs. I want production.
OH just some guy with a career .400 OBP and 200 ISO so far in 4 yrs of professional ball
Tyler Roses or something, lol
Can't bring him up now
Towel thrown in for this year. Pretty sure KW is plotting a Mike Lamb deal soon so we won’t have to suffer Flowers.
by Gentleman Jim on Apr 18, 2010 6:06 PM CDT up reply actions
Mike Lamb?
The guy who spent last year in the Mets minor league system? The Injury Riddled, powerless 2009 Mets?
waitaminute, are you joshing me?
No
The plan is to have him fourth to pick up Kotsay after he drives in all the runners ahead of him.
by Gentleman Jim on Apr 18, 2010 8:06 PM CDT up reply actions
probably a reason why he cleared waivers
RIP Jim Thome 1-25-2010
an AL team not having a DH is like a giraffe fucking a mule. - larry
If we are getting angry about Sox non-moves I think I will stick with not signing Thome
an oldie, but a goodie
especially since eating Kotsay's contract and paying Jim 1.5 is still only paying
3M for a DH.
I'd rather have Rios steal 50 bases than hit 50 home runs. I want production.
hey juan uribe just homered to break a 0-0 tie
in the 7th. Gee i am glad that we had fields/getz in 09 and teahen for the next 10 years instead of Uribe.
Kenwo4life=ratings
You can't put a price
on not being a murderer.
by Gentleman Jim on Apr 18, 2010 4:53 PM CDT up reply actions
Attempted murder, murder
same thing. Trying not to be results oriented. Pretty sure this on this year’s team you get credit for trying.
by Gentleman Jim on Apr 18, 2010 4:56 PM CDT up reply actions
so does that mean our season is over before it even starts
"Let’s plunge ourselves into the roar of time, the whirl of accident; may pain and pleasure, success and failure, shift as they will- it’s only action that can make a man" Faust, Goethe
the twins won the world series
did you hear?
Watching this team is like jerking off 10 minutes after you just jerked off - billyok
yeah i thought i heard something about that on the radio this morning.
this sucks.
"Let’s plunge ourselves into the roar of time, the whirl of accident; may pain and pleasure, success and failure, shift as they will- it’s only action that can make a man" Faust, Goethe
THIS GAME MADE ME DROP A DEUCE.
ON MYSELF.
" except for the in depth discussion of African-Americans
without like African-Americans. - Tdogg"
by Where Triples Go to Die on Apr 18, 2010 5:38 PM CDT reply actions
funny, the odds on the sox dropping a duece on the score board were even .
too bad they squeezed out a couple more.
Wasn't Kotsay traded for Brian Anderson?
Don’t need WOBA to tell you he’s worthless, or at least not a starter/DH.
Colin, how much of the starter’s stats are skewed by 3 horrid starts (1 each by Peavy, Phreddy, and Gavin today)?
"April showers bring May flowers and May flowers bring mathematical elimination day to Kansas City".--- Joe Pos
by Chiburb on Apr 18, 2010 5:46 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
plenty. that's like 25% of the total starts
but FIP without HRs is all K’s and BB’s. by that measure, Freddy’s been bad, Peavy’s been bad, Buehrle’s hard to tell, Floyd had one bad start of three and Danks has been very good.
but yeah, it’s 3 starts. we still don’t know that much about the staff as a whole and we know very little at all about any one starter. i went with “a little worrisome” because that’s about all we can say atm.
I'd rather have Rios steal 50 bases than hit 50 home runs. I want production.
Read the following carefully. It should answer your question.
http://www.draysbay.com/2010/4/17/1425063/understanding-small-sample-sizes
larry. A kind word for everyone.
by ballyb on Apr 18, 2010 6:25 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
I can only remember once that the Sox cut bait quickly
(other than Esteban L.) – Swisher. And that took all year.
We will dance with whom we brung. Our guys do not admit errors quickly.
I am more prone to be inquisitive to promote discussion.
he was around forever
RIP Jim Thome 1-25-2010
an AL team not having a DH is like a giraffe fucking a mule. - larry
sure.
but the point i was making was regarding sunk costs. the white sox have occasionally eaten contracts similar to kotsay’s. considering their unwillingness to eat contracts, it rather makes sense to them that they would wait until the dollar value is smaller.
in that case I submit Macdougal
because apparently we are still paying him
RIP Jim Thome 1-25-2010
an AL team not having a DH is like a giraffe fucking a mule. - larry
Shingo 05.
Like 1 blown save and they frisbee’d his ass out of there.
Moose Skowron: "I would be dying to have faced you."
Steve Stone: "First of all, I would look at you and start laughing because you're the smallest moose I've ever seen in my life, and second of all you couldn't hit a curve ball with a canoe paddle, so let's not talk about it."
Right. But they still pulled the plug quickly.
Moose Skowron: "I would be dying to have faced you."
Steve Stone: "First of all, I would look at you and start laughing because you're the smallest moose I've ever seen in my life, and second of all you couldn't hit a curve ball with a canoe paddle, so let's not talk about it."
as a follow up to the small sample size link from yesterday
read erik’s analysis of what it means applied to the white sox.
http://palehosepariah.wordpress.com/2010/04/18/greg-walkers-burden-promote-less-hacking/
If we do get rid of Kotsay (which I've made quite clear, I'm all for)
What are the options to replace him? I don’t think you bring up Flowers, when whoever is brought in, should just be playing in a limited part time role because apparently Jones actually can play again.
Is De Aza the answer? Can Jones or Nix back up at first base? Or does the guy have to be a proven 1B, meaning we go outside the system?
"A common mistake made by baseball fans is to call a pitcher unhittable when that pitcher is not Matt Thornton." - Hardball Times
by Grinder in Training on Apr 18, 2010 7:43 PM CDT reply actions
Why not take a flier on him?
It’s in our DNA to sort through others’ trash.
I am more prone to be inquisitive to promote discussion.
i wouldn't disagree.
if this weren’t the white sox we were discussing. he’d be misused. i’d prefer to give ozzie another pitcher.
There's this guy named Dye or something.
He’s pretty good at hitting the ball. We should get him.
www.stallingtheman.blogspot.com
He was not pretty good at hitting a baseball last year's 2nd half. Nor could he do anything else well.
Do a search on this site and see what the reaction was to his play. Also do a search and see if JD wants to be a DH.
Can we move on, already?
I am more prone to be inquisitive to promote discussion.
DNR
Like drinking poison, like eating glass.
by Teahenny Penny on Apr 18, 2010 8:38 PM CDT up reply actions
Doesn't want a part time role anyways.
"A common mistake made by baseball fans is to call a pitcher unhittable when that pitcher is not Matt Thornton." - Hardball Times
by Grinder in Training on Apr 18, 2010 8:22 PM CDT up reply actions
Im not sure why he would care at this point,
plus with K-Dubs at the helm he knows the Sox arent racist.
The season of Oz is upon us, be afraid.
Did we forget about Carlos Delgado? I like that idea.
"I'd rather have Rios steal 50 bases than hit 50 home runs. I want production." - Ozzie Guillen
"I'd rather have Rios hit 50 home runs than steal 50 bases. I want to win." - Servant2LordBeckham
by Servant2LordBeckham on Apr 18, 2010 8:00 PM CDT reply actions
He's hurt. Out for the year.
We could bring up Jared Mitchell, too. He’s cheaper. We are already paying him to be out for the year.
I am more prone to be inquisitive to promote discussion.
Mark Kotsay farts in elevators.
He liked the Tucker Max movie. He’s the reason why your parents broke up. He thinks the red light cameras are a good idea. He walks around with a bluetooth device in his ear, even when he’s not on the phone. He says “epic fail” in casual conversation. He peppers your Facebook page with invitations to join Mafia Wars. He thinks The Heckler is funny. He negotiated the parking meter deal. He’s best buds with Rod Blagojevich.
Truth is – when Frank Thomas/Carlos Lee/Magglio/Paulie/Thome/Dye/Quentin/Beckham/Jones don’t hit, this team doesn’t score a lot of runs.
As for Walker, everything that has been said…has been said.
I was at the Cub game today. The Cubs were downright White Sox-ian in their inability to score runs. DLee and Aramis couldn’t do anything, so they lost.
Mike Jacobs? Why not. I could be referring to the guy who was DFA’ed today, or the lead anchor at WTMJ-TV in Milwaukee.
They could have the same impact.
by 67WMAQ on Apr 18, 2010 8:06 PM CDT reply actions 8 recs
Rec for the first paragraph.
Like drinking poison, like eating glass.
by Teahenny Penny on Apr 18, 2010 8:39 PM CDT up reply actions
257 comments and 3 posts in your first 10 days as a member,
wOw, welcome aboard!
The season of Oz is upon us, be afraid.
Breaking News: Bo-Sox fan strikes gold
The season of Oz is upon us, be afraid.
by OznCoop on Apr 18, 2010 9:24 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
He also works at subway
" except for the in depth discussion of African-Americans
without like African-Americans. - Tdogg"
by Where Triples Go to Die on Apr 19, 2010 1:11 AM CDT up reply actions
Mmmm.... corned beef.
i don't fuck corned beef.
which is why i don’t eat at subway. by larry on Mar 17
by South Side Expat on Apr 19, 2010 1:18 AM CDT up reply actions
Hah! Stoopid Sports Illustrated...
They picked the Sox to come in 3rd in the division.
We’ll show them!
"We have to say the American public overwhelmingly voted for socialism when they elected President Obama." - Rev. Al Sharpton
I think a closed door team meeting might, just might be the answer.
larry. A kind word for everyone.
BTW,
how is the reality show turning out.
Free Ozzie’s Twitter account.
larry. A kind word for everyone.
Was in Denver yesteday killing time before the flight home.
Reading the sports section of the Denver Post, what do I see but a large quote attributed to Ozzie about the Chicago sports media needing him to keep things exciting. For the first time I thought “Shut the fuck up and manage, Ozzie”. The quote was not in the context of an accompanying article about the Sox, just a free-floating quote.
Get to work, Guillen. If my patience with you is running thin, you don’t have a helluva lot of time left.
I am more prone to be inquisitive to promote discussion.
I run hot and cold on Ozzie
On the one hand, he is a quote machine. And they are pretty funny. In terms of media coverage, a bad team with Ozzie at the helm is a far more interesting than a bad team with a vanilla nobody in charge.
But this is the offense he wanted. And it’s not going anywhere. I’m not one of those “Jim Thome would have solved everything” people..but it would have been nice to have Matsui.
Kotsay in the 3 hole, or as DH, is inexcusable. Juan Pierre should be batting lower in the order. He’s a grace note.
It should be noted that Carlos Quentin, Gordon Beckham, and Paul Konerko killed every rally yesterday. They’re the centerpiece of the offense.
Two headcases and a kid.
God help us all.
For someone like you who works inthe media industry,
I would think Ozzy would be your best friend.
The season of Oz is upon us, be afraid.
The sports guys love Ozzie. They looooove him.
They love interviewing him. They love pissing him off even more.
I’ve heard a bunch of behind the scenes stories that are really off color, and funny as all hell. Same goes for AJ, and Bobby Jenks.
If you had the choice between covering Ozzie Guillen, and sleepy Uncle Lou…you would pick Ozzie every time.
I'm sure MLB Network was hoping
for some sort of exciting division battle story, but a “crash and burn” scenario will work just as well…maybe even better if Ozzie completely loses it.
"We have to say the American public overwhelmingly voted for socialism when they elected President Obama." - Rev. Al Sharpton
Wow. I forgot about the TV show.
Or maybe, just maybe, it’s the source of conflict before the inevitable triumph.
White Sox Baseball: We Know Drama
I think a bunch of blow up dolls might be the answer
RIP Jim Thome 1-25-2010
an AL team not having a DH is like a giraffe fucking a mule. - larry
by blackoutsox on Apr 18, 2010 11:31 PM CDT up reply actions
Somebody call Nick and Toby, tell them to stop by the pie shop on their way.
The season of Oz is upon us, be afraid.
thursday is the historic first airing of a sox game on csn+2
and the best part is nobody will care that they can’t find it.
OR
everyone will be pissed that they didn’t get to watch the rays getting swept.
Channel 666 on DirecTV
Coincidence?
"We have to say the American public overwhelmingly voted for socialism when they elected President Obama." - Rev. Al Sharpton
is cltv no more?
"the worst thing about this team is going to be the manager." - Ozzie Guillen, USA Today Sports Weekly
its the 2nd alternate.
bulls on regular csn, hawks on csn+ (cltv), sox on csn+2. as far as I can tell only directv carries it.
Lucky 13
Sox 2010 record after 13 games: 4-9
Last time the Sox had a 4-9 start: 1997, which propelled them to a final tally of 80-81, good enough for 2nd place, 6 games behind Cleveland. It also happened to be Ozzie’s last year as a player for the Sox – hitting .245
The 2005 Sox record after 13 games: 9-4. Their 9th loss didn’t come until May 10, when they had a record of 24-9.
Last Sox team to have a worse first 13 games: The 1986 squad, that included Kenny Williams (4 hits in 31 at bats, including a dinger), started out at 3-10 and limped to the finish line at 72-90…only good enough for 5th place in the old A.L. West.
Be afraid…be very afraid.
"We have to say the American public overwhelmingly voted for socialism when they elected President Obama." - Rev. Al Sharpton
by tailgater on Apr 18, 2010 11:48 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
the rockies did it once
Watching this team is like jerking off 10 minutes after you just jerked off - billyok
and the Rockies pitcher threw a no-hitter a couple days ago, which the Sox have done before,
the stars have aligned, the scene has been set. Sit back relax and strap it down, a 20 game win streak is coming up!
The season of Oz is upon us, be afraid.
How about putting 3 together first? Baby steps.
"We have to say the American public overwhelmingly voted for socialism when they elected President Obama." - Rev. Al Sharpton
the hitless wonders needed a 19 game run in August...
"the worst thing about this team is going to be the manager." - Ozzie Guillen, USA Today Sports Weekly
How about we call up Brent Morel and stick him at 3b.
" except for the in depth discussion of African-Americans
without like African-Americans. - Tdogg"
by Where Triples Go to Die on Apr 19, 2010 1:13 AM CDT reply actions
Teahan is currently the best hitter on the team
By several miles. Its based on his unsustainable 22% walk rate, but hes keeping shit afloat.
who is the pussy that deleted the pooh pooh pic?
" except for the in depth discussion of African-Americans
without like African-Americans. - Tdogg"
by Where Triples Go to Die on Apr 19, 2010 1:14 AM CDT reply actions
your fantasy team is pooh pooh
by onlysoxfaninbasel on Apr 19, 2010 5:43 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Don't even get me started on that bugerlicious team u got.
I have dropped better teams in the toilet bowl.
" except for the in depth discussion of African-Americans
without like African-Americans. - Tdogg"
by Where Triples Go to Die on Apr 19, 2010 2:26 PM CDT up reply actions
haha, i don't even like my team, i'm like rocking an outfield of q, rios, and jones
by onlysoxfaninbasel on Apr 19, 2010 2:36 PM CDT up reply actions
well that makes 2 of us.
why don’t you send Q over, take a gander at my roster and see if we match up anywhere…
" except for the in depth discussion of African-Americans
without like African-Americans. - Tdogg"
by Where Triples Go to Die on Apr 19, 2010 3:46 PM CDT up reply actions
"I fucked up..."
“Maybe turning Jim Thome away wasn’t such a goo idea…”
"I'd rather have Rios steal 50 bases than hit 50 home runs. I want production." - Ozzie Guillen
"I'd rather have Rios hit 50 home runs than steal 50 bases. I want to win." - Servant2LordBeckham
by Servant2LordBeckham on Apr 19, 2010 2:49 AM CDT reply actions
is that larry?
" except for the in depth discussion of African-Americans
without like African-Americans. - Tdogg"
by Where Triples Go to Die on Apr 19, 2010 2:29 PM CDT up reply actions
It's a marathon, not a sprint.
And Mark Kotsay sucks at both.
by The Actual El Guapo on Apr 19, 2010 8:50 AM CDT via mobile reply actions
nationals need to get closer to our win %.
"the worst thing about this team is going to be the manager." - Ozzie Guillen, USA Today Sports Weekly
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on South Side Sox
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
FanShots
Quick hits of video, photos, quotes, chats, links and lists that you find around the web.
Recommended FanShots
Recent FanShots
In Association With
Big League Stew - MLB - Yahoo! Sports
- Does Billy Beane’s contract extension signal an optimistic dawn for Oakland fans?
- Ask Alex: Will Alex Avila be an All-Star again?
- Create-a-Caption: Matt Cain’s great pair of golf pants
- Kim Kardashian, Kris Humphries autographed ball being auctioned by Twins
- George Brett lawsuit claims his company falsely advertises ion necklaces’ health benefits
Certain photos copyright © 2012 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
