Season Over: White Sox Minor League Update
by larry on May 15, 2010 10:18 AM CDT
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PrintKenny Williams trading prospects. It's almost like cleaning the gutters for KW: it just has to be done a few times a year. Last year the poll was pretty accurate, with Dexter Carter and Brandon Allen the leading vote-getters. Since some have already played for the White Sox, I've changed the question slightly.
SouthSideSox is a community driven site. As such, users are able to express their thoughts and opinions in a FanPost, such as this one, which represents the views of this particular fan, but not necessarily the entire community or SouthSideSox editors.
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Morel seems to be the one getting the most praise
Coupled with our need for a real third baseman…KW logic dictates that Brent is the one to go
It was then I realized vegans can’t be trusted
by Scotty Ballgame on May 15, 2010 10:51 AM CDT reply actions
Teahen's got the position locked down through 2010
EVERYBODY PICK US FOR 3RD OR 4TH SO I DINK WE DOIN POOTY GOO
Sox Machine
by Sox Machine on May 15, 2010 11:23 AM CDT up reply actions
2012. Bah.
EVERYBODY PICK US FOR 3RD OR 4TH SO I DINK WE DOIN POOTY GOO
Sox Machine
by Sox Machine on May 15, 2010 11:23 AM CDT up reply actions
Move Teahen back to outfield
and put someone who can play the position at 3B
It was then I realized vegans can’t be trusted
by Scotty Ballgame on May 15, 2010 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions
But then they'd need to find an outfielder
EVERYBODY PICK US FOR 3RD OR 4TH SO I DINK WE DOIN POOTY GOO
Sox Machine
by Sox Machine on May 15, 2010 11:47 AM CDT up reply actions
I thought you said we had strikeout-prone Djordan Anks
His Serbian non-union equivalent.
EVERYBODY PICK US FOR 3RD OR 4TH SO I DINK WE DOIN POOTY GOO
Sox Machine
by Sox Machine on May 15, 2010 12:31 PM CDT up reply actions
is that bah
cuz…
you made a mistake and typed 2010 instead of 2012
or
2012 represents even more years of Teahen?
I would like to think both
-Jeeves Life in the Cell
Freudian slip
Maybe the least erotic one ever.
EVERYBODY PICK US FOR 3RD OR 4TH SO I DINK WE DOIN POOTY GOO
Sox Machine
I think the one to go is Hudson.
Sox can get the most for him and they don’t put much stock into their own pitching prospects.
Kenwo4life=ratings
Again I realize it belongs in the "Who cares?"
category….but for some reason I feel compelled to post it.
Jeff Marquez with his 4th consecutive quality start today for Charlotte.
For the minors yes.
HI I HAVE BEEN DRINKING BEVERAGES
by billyok on Mar 13, 2010 5:22 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
by omnipotent grab on May 16, 2010 7:55 PM CDT up reply actions
Great pickup by our crack scouting department, that Embree.
when i was in 9th grade i was the only one in my entire boys choir to understood my teacher
by BoeJouma on May 11, 2010 5:46 PM EDT
I understand.
I am still disappointed.
when i was in 9th grade i was the only one in my entire boys choir to understood my teacher
by BoeJouma on May 11, 2010 5:46 PM EDT
His joke didn't land
It’s a legit reason to be disappointed.
http://twitter.com/FutureSox
http://FutureSox.com
by The Big Hurt on May 16, 2010 3:57 PM CDT up reply actions
This.
But it dies follow that if you want to blow up the team you don’t sign Embree. Does nothing to further the future.
when i was in 9th grade i was the only one in my entire boys choir to understood my teacher
by BoeJouma on May 11, 2010 5:46 PM EDT
you're right.
a team has never traded for a reliever at the trade deadline.
freely available talent. that is exactly what this organization should be becoming familiar with. they might be surprised that those guys can play almost as well as the guys they decide to drop a couple million in guaranteed money on. while there are many things i don’t like about billy beane’s approach, he knows not to lock himself in on garbage and always has his eye on the FAT.
"Talent" is the operative word here.
Why didn’t we just keep Boone Logan if we wanted a horsehit LOOGY?
Oh.
when i was in 9th grade i was the only one in my entire boys choir to understood my teacher
by BoeJouma on May 11, 2010 5:46 PM EDT
It's your kids Marty, something has got to be done about your kids!
i feel like the night will tip towards culture, like a big fat black retarded girl on a see saw opposite a midget.
by boyonthedock on May 5, 2010
by South Side Expat on May 18, 2010 2:48 AM CDT up reply actions
bring up viciedo....
might as well see what happens. its better than seeing vizquel DH. I know you are against this larry… but what do we have to lose. (and don’t give me the BS ’you’ll ruin him’ shit)
Kenwo4life=ratings
youll lose a potential future first baseman
signature pending offensive outbreak
by blackoutsox on May 16, 2010 10:13 PM CDT up reply actions
he would be completely dominated. it would be brutal.
Cashing checks and having sex.
by MarketMaker on May 16, 2010 10:24 PM CDT up reply actions
and i don't see why he'd be dominated.
he struggled last year and then improved…. he struggled to start this year but now is hitting .274 with 8 homers and 18 rbi’s…. i know he doesn’t walk and strikes out a lot… but i am willing to bet he is better than what we have and that he will improve with time. might as well start the curve now. id rather see him strike out than see kotsay ground into a double play again.
Kenwo4life=ratings
i'm sure you'll tire of seeing him do it after 35 games, as well.
i frankly don’t see why it would more amusing to see viciedo suck than anyone else.
maybe he'd improve after 40 games.
might as well see what he got… konerko is probably (hopefully) going to be gone after the year. might as well see what the kid can do. you are paying him big league money. fuck it.
you seem to be all over flowers shlong…. what makes him any more ready than viciedo? give both of them a shot.
Kenwo4life=ratings
.160 more ops is 1 reason i might point out that flowers is more ready than viciedo.
but don’t let the numbers get in the way of your hooting and hollering.
Cashing checks and having sex.
by MarketMaker on May 16, 2010 11:13 PM CDT up reply actions
i just said give em both a shot.
it won’t be worse than aj and kotsay…. and even if it is you can chalk it up to guys getting experience. much easier to swallow (thats what she said).
Kenwo4life=ratings
agreed....
but at least if they improved as the year went on you might get a little better feeling about things.
Kenwo4life=ratings
i'd rather see them improve in the minors and keep costs down.
or, more precisely, not actually see them improve but view the boxscores exhibiting the improvement. i suppose when i have a child i will enjoy watching them improve. right now, i find people who can’t talk properly just as annoying as people who can’t hit baseballs properly.
i hear you....
but the people we are currently playing can’t hit the ball properly.
Kenwo4life=ratings
where would he play?
signature pending offensive outbreak
by blackoutsox on May 16, 2010 10:24 PM CDT up reply actions
DH? 3rd Base?
back up first? Anytime Oz feels the need to put vizquel at DH he could be there.
Kenwo4life=ratings
vizquel doesnt have to DH though, its not like we dont have anyone to put there (quentin or jones)
and as bad as Teahens D is, Viciedos will be worse. The only person who could get pushed out is Pierre, which is to say noone
signature pending offensive outbreak
by blackoutsox on May 16, 2010 10:48 PM CDT up reply actions
short 2-4, BB
escobar 1-3, 2 BB
gilmore 2-5, HR
jones 5.1 IP, 8 H, 1 BB, 2 K
remenowsky 1 IP, 0 H, 0 BB, 2 K
shelby 1-4
morel 2-3, 2B, BB
marrero 1-3, BB
long 6 IP, 1 H, 0 BB, 7 K
complete rain-shortened game for long.
if you want to get excited by the next joe randa
go right ahead.
it was a typo
“what’ll” he be? he’s 23 now. you’re saying two more years after this one(?) that would put him at 26 in the majors.
whatever. significant 3B prospects dont’ post .750OPS in AA.
cuz, why else would his stats get better as he advances up the ladder?
they’ve gotten worse so far. i can never follow when you’re being cryptic or not.
not talking about MLE
of course it might get marginally better in AAA, but it’ll still be omar vizquelish.
i don't understand this.
your question does not follow the discussion here. yes, his MLE will presumably get better. as for his stats, i assume you mean his raw triple slash and such, i offered no opinion on that. i would note, however, that his raw stats from last year to this year have not gotten worse, they have gotten better. i assume his stats will remain essentially the same this year and next year.
he took a walk since this discussion started
so yes, his OPS is .005 higher this year than last.
plug the same raw numbers in the calculator and choose “AAA to MLB” and you get OPS .620
compare to teahen’s career .745
OBP is more important than slugging.
i don’t know what MLE calculator it is that you are using. i think it isn’t a very good one.
also amusingly,
if you think his glove is pretty good, if he did indeed put up that line this year, he’d probably project to be worth about 1 WAR. or, you know, better than teahen.
one of the reasons i think MLEs are silly.
i try not to think about teahen
but Morel is getting me a little wishcasty. B’ham’s not the easiest place to hit, but he only has to hit like a SS prospect if his glove’s what they say.
I'd rather have Rios steal 50 bases than hit 50 home runs. I want production.
yeah, i like morel.
watching him, the eye test definitely confirms the scout’s opinion. he’s going to need to keep proving it to me, though, and i don’t think he’s the type that the white sox should fast track.
well fortunately
there’s no room for him anyway. who was it i’m not thinking about?
I'd rather have Rios steal 50 bases than hit 50 home runs. I want production.
no, he's 23
but MLEs are less the useful or accurate the farther the player is from the majors. With Morel being two years away, it makes his MLE suspect.
and do we really care how he would perform in the majors right now?
no, we don’t. we care how he will perform in the majors when he’s likely to arrive. and we probably care even more how he will perform after a year or two in the majors. MLEs are amusing but their value is highly questionable unless you’re interested solely in instant gratification with a prospect.
so in 8 years we might have joe randa
if everything goes right. and that’s one of our top 5 prospects. great.
yeah, jeez. a guy who produced 20+ WAR in his career.
just fucking awful. i mean, why even bother to develop players like that. just easier to overpay for them on the free agent market or in trade.
he's fine.
a decent system should have several future joe randa’s.
the average top 100 prospect
never achieves anything like joe randa’s career. it would take 4 of them to make it likely that you’d get one. and the average system has 3.3 top 100 prospects.
I'd rather have Rios steal 50 bases than hit 50 home runs. I want production.
Morel wasn't a top 100 prospect.
I'd rather have Rios steal 50 bases than hit 50 home runs. I want production.
i hear morel kills dogs, beats up little girls and drives his car through flower beds.
and his MLE is like .600.
and this is one of our better prospects
you heard what john shelby’s up to these days?
I'd rather have Rios steal 50 bases than hit 50 home runs. I want production.
he's into something
much darker.
/krieger
I'd rather have Rios steal 50 bases than hit 50 home runs. I want production.
arms in air...
so now you’re telling me we have .125 randa’s?
at some point
you’ll come to realize that it’s important to confront the actual joe randa.
I'd rather have Rios steal 50 bases than hit 50 home runs. I want production.
reality check for the whiny bitches on this board.
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/a-reality-check-from-the-draft-hype/
please insert your tampon on the way out.
by larry on May 17, 2010 11:26 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
what's your point?
that most prospects fail? big surprise. but not brent morel. dude’s gonna be the next joe randa!
this is all very amusing.
next time, let’s understand what the stats we’re citing actually mean. thanks.
who could have predicted the amount of times joe randa's name would be referenced in this thread? i'm very impressed.
Cashing checks and having sex.
Joe Randa threw me a foul ball in spring training
in 1991. I still have Joe Randa’s ball.
when i was in 9th grade i was the only one in my entire boys choir to understood my teacher
by BoeJouma on May 11, 2010 5:46 PM EDT
I went to Joe Randa's last game as a Royal
He got a standing ovation from the crowd multiple times.
EVERYBODY PICK US FOR 3RD OR 4TH SO I DINK WE DOIN POOTY GOO
Sox Machine
by Sox Machine on May 17, 2010 11:48 PM CDT up reply actions
"I still have Joe Randa's ball"
The question is, does he still have his other one?
FUCK EVYTHING BACON RULZ WEER GONNA WIN TEH CHAMPSHIOP
...colintj, Nov8, 2009
Fat pitch.
Single. A bunt, at that. Swing for the fences next time, crackhead.
when i was in 9th grade i was the only one in my entire boys choir to understood my teacher
by BoeJouma on May 11, 2010 5:46 PM EDT
Rienzo
Not sure if you are being facetious. If not, what can you tell me about him?
nope.
http://www.southsidesox.com/2009/9/12/1027232/interesting-white-sox-prospects-to
i just liked the k rate last season at bristol and when he was in the DSL the prior two.
Speaking of Morel
**White Sox third base prospect Brett Morel is having a good transition to Double-A, hitting .308/.350/.444 in 34 games, including .351/.385/.514 in his last ten contests. Plate discipline is an issue: he’s drawn just eight walks against 24 strikeouts in 133 at-bats. The strikeouts aren’t bad but I would like to see a few more walks, granted his overall production has been just fine. He’s a solid defensive third baseman, and if his offensive development continues at the current pace he should be ready for a major league trial next year, although I’d like him to get some Triple-A time in first. If I were running things, he would remain in Double-A until August, then move up to Triple-A at that point assuming his numbers remain where they are now.
sickels has the exact timeline i'd have.
not unusual, of course, as he and i both prefer to take things slowly with prospects, particularly non-elite ones.
while there isn’t a single prospect in baseball who you wouldn’t like to see take more walks, i don’t really see much improvement in the offing for morel on that. he’s a contact guy. i’m more inclined to watch the strikeouts as he faces more advanced pitching.
why take things slowly?
I'd rather have Rios steal 50 bases than hit 50 home runs. I want production.
are there some examples you're thinking of?
I'd rather have Rios steal 50 bases than hit 50 home runs. I want production.
But
we got Greg Motherfucking Walker who can fix bad habits in 4 swings or less
It was then I realized vegans can’t be trusted
by Scotty Ballgame on May 17, 2010 3:14 PM CDT up reply actions
BP has em for free too
I'd rather have Rios steal 50 bases than hit 50 home runs. I want production.
I thought they should keep Beckham in AAA until about this point or maybe the beginning of this year
Of course, I thought they shouldn’t draft him at all a couple years ago. Not sure I’d stand by that now, but he’s struggling right now for the same reasons people like me were low on him then.
You guys win. You can keep your little marked-out piece of internet territory. Spend your days communicating via keyboard with people too ugly for the real world and too nerdy for anyone to care, anyway. Your piece of land is here. Do the rest of civilization a favor and stay within its limits. You bore me. Have fun with your nightly sobs and screams into your pillow over your inability to attract a good mate, Radiohead. ~The Hooligan
by Daniel Berlyn on May 17, 2010 7:01 PM CDT up reply actions
How's your parole coming?
Where the eff have you been, DB? If you checked out over the last week just keep walking.
when i was in 9th grade i was the only one in my entire boys choir to understood my teacher
by BoeJouma on May 11, 2010 5:46 PM EDT
I've got a lot of stuff going on right now, finishing high school and all.
I also have Sectionals on Thursday, which is unfortunate because I could have chilled with you all Friday, but they released the date after I would have had to commit for a ticket.
You guys win. You can keep your little marked-out piece of internet territory. Spend your days communicating via keyboard with people too ugly for the real world and too nerdy for anyone to care, anyway. Your piece of land is here. Do the rest of civilization a favor and stay within its limits. You bore me. Have fun with your nightly sobs and screams into your pillow over your inability to attract a good mate, Radiohead. ~The Hooligan
by Daniel Berlyn on May 17, 2010 7:06 PM CDT up reply actions
Soooo...
ask if there is an extra. FFS.
when i was in 9th grade i was the only one in my entire boys choir to understood my teacher
by BoeJouma on May 11, 2010 5:46 PM EDT
never thought of it like that
You guys win. You can keep your little marked-out piece of internet territory. Spend your days communicating via keyboard with people too ugly for the real world and too nerdy for anyone to care, anyway. Your piece of land is here. Do the rest of civilization a favor and stay within its limits. You bore me. Have fun with your nightly sobs and screams into your pillow over your inability to attract a good mate, Radiohead. ~The Hooligan
by Daniel Berlyn on May 17, 2010 7:18 PM CDT up reply actions
wha?
which is why? iirc, everyone thought he’d hit.
I'd rather have Rios steal 50 bases than hit 50 home runs. I want production.
His swing was loopy, left a hole inside
You guys win. You can keep your little marked-out piece of internet territory. Spend your days communicating via keyboard with people too ugly for the real world and too nerdy for anyone to care, anyway. Your piece of land is here. Do the rest of civilization a favor and stay within its limits. You bore me. Have fun with your nightly sobs and screams into your pillow over your inability to attract a good mate, Radiohead. ~The Hooligan
by Daniel Berlyn on May 17, 2010 8:49 PM CDT up reply actions
i don't see that in his current swing
I'd rather have Rios steal 50 bases than hit 50 home runs. I want production.
Viciedo, Danks, Flowers video ...
In case you didn’t see it in other threads…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6i8jVGuE814
Dayan Viciedo went deep to the opposite field yesterday. We could see him up with the Sox sooner rather than later. Took this video yesterday at the Charlotte / Scranton Wilkes Barre game. I have some Jordan Danks video too. Danks had a double and a triple in the game. Tyler Flowers had a pretty nondescript day, therefore no videos … unless you want me to upload the popouts and strikeout.
Danks… http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfUGZW4iGg4 and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FQrcnEzo-s
If he learns to cut down on his swing and his K’s, he’ll make a fine top of the order hitter.
I’m uploading some others too. Search my youtube profile if you want to check out other AB’s from the 5/16 Charlotte game.
if he'd just take some walks...
that’s not gonna happen.
Cashing checks and having sex.
by MarketMaker on May 17, 2010 11:16 PM CDT up reply actions
Because it shows plate discipline
It becomes harder to succeed if you are constantly swinging at pitches out of the zone. Vlad G and such are rare players.
"Anywhere white people are poor, I'm afraid to go" Lawrence Holmes 670 the Score
i know you like ron kittle and all.
but ron kittle was a pretty poor baseball player.
http://www.baseballprojection.com/war/k/kittr001.htm
and that kind of looks like what viciedo might be.
oh man.. if he could be ron kittle that would be fucking awesome!!!!
he’ll put it on the concourse! they will put up a sign for Dayan Viciedo for hitting it on the fan deck! pretty sweet!
Kenwo4life=ratings
wouldn't getting it to the fan deck be like a 550+ ft shot?
that’d be like getting it to the scoreboard on the fly. or am I thinking about the fundamentals deck?
oh man...if he could be like joe borchard that would be fucking awesome!!!!
he’ll put it on the concourse!
-Jeeves Life in the Cell
for the record
i hope he amounts to more than joe borchard
-Jeeves Life in the Cell
not to nitpick but
3-4 for Dayan (I check his bio often)
if they cancel tomorrow's game too, it'll be the second-best lossless streak of the season
How shitty are we!!
-billyok
by blackoutsox on May 17, 2010 11:44 PM CDT up reply actions
Wow the power is starting to become impressive
what’s his MLE line? lol. You guys actually made me remember Joe Randa was a pretty decent ball player. Any reports on how Dayan is now with his 1b glove?
"Anywhere white people are poor, I'm afraid to go" Lawrence Holmes 670 the Score
buck coats
there’s a good baseball name. he’s played every position but catcher. he’s just a ballplayer.
Dayan Viciedo, 3B, White Sox (Triple-A Charlotte): 3-for-4, HR (9), 2 R, 2 RBI
One scout who recently saw Viciedo said he liked him better than last year, saying, “the more I see him, the more convinced I am that he’s going to be a good big leaguer.” There are still plenty of holes in his game, as he’s walked a grand total of four times this year, and yes, he’s still fat, but he’s also just 21 years old and batting .288/.322/.511 in Triple-A. There’s something here, but it’s not without its warts.
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=10906
Like I've said...he's gonna hit up here....
he may remind us of Uribe some, but I think there’s a hell of a lot more upside. Hopefully he won’t be an embarrassment at first.
juan uribe is fine.
he’s also a shortstop. so he can have an OPS+ of 84. dayan viciedo is a 1B/DH. he cannot.
when you receive a kenwo endorsement.. you are bound to produce.
viciedo has been raking since i said to bring him up and freddy threw another gem!
Kenwo4life=ratings
danks is still better and more reliable
Watching this team is like jerking off 10 minutes after you just jerked off - billyok
well... i am going to the game tomorrow night
and danks is pitching… so i am confident…. I, personally, though would be MORE confident if freddy was going… (not on one days rest though but you get the idea). to each their own
Kenwo4life=ratings
danks just doesnt know how to win
freddy is just a ballgamer
if they cancel tomorrow's game too, it'll be the second-best lossless streak of the season
How shitty are we!!
-billyok
hes been raking a while before that
if they cancel tomorrow's game too, it'll be the second-best lossless streak of the season
How shitty are we!!
-billyok
"He's still fat."
Oh, I’m sure as he gets older he’ll thin right out. Future DH at age 23.
when i was in 9th grade i was the only one in my entire boys choir to understood my teacher
by BoeJouma on May 11, 2010 5:46 PM EDT
there is a rather odd disdain for so-called fat players on this site.
i don’t give a shit as long as they produce.
Other than Tony Gwynn
who in the last 15 years has been an out-of-shape position player who has had a long, productive career? Miggy Cabrera doesn’t count yet. Weren’tyou a guy that talked about a fitness/injury relationship?
when i was in 9th grade i was the only one in my entire boys choir to understood my teacher
by BoeJouma on May 11, 2010 5:46 PM EDT
by winningugly on May 18, 2010 10:21 PM CDT up reply actions
Some men are longer than others.
He’s already eaten his way past first, and as another poster opinedon the RR he’s hardly able to field his position at first. So if you are excited about the contract he signed as a 3B to be paid to a DH you are more tolerant than me.
when i was in 9th grade i was the only one in my entire boys choir to understood my teacher
by BoeJouma on May 11, 2010 5:46 PM EDT
by winningugly on May 18, 2010 10:49 PM CDT up reply actions
he signed a 4 year deal for $10M.
as for “hardly able to field his position at first”, i think that’s false.
Read the comment.
However, I have not seen him, so I have no opinion yet.
when i was in 9th grade i was the only one in my entire boys choir to understood my teacher
by BoeJouma on May 11, 2010 5:46 PM EDT
by winningugly on May 18, 2010 11:06 PM CDT up reply actions
i read the comment.
he’s having trouble catching balls. i’m utterly floored by this. he moved to first like a month ago.
It isn't footwork or positioning or flip tosses or the 3-6-3.
He’s not catching balls. Fer Chrissakes. You could play first.
when i was in 9th grade i was the only one in my entire boys choir to understood my teacher
by BoeJouma on May 11, 2010 5:46 PM EDT
by winningugly on May 18, 2010 11:16 PM CDT up reply actions
that's silly.
why do we laud paul konerko for being able to handle poorly thrown balls? because it’s a skill. and one that doesn’t get magically learned overnight.
because the difference amounts to +/- 2 runs a year
time to hate on X because minor fault Y!
I'd rather have Rios steal 50 bases than hit 50 home runs. I want production.
if it doesn't matter
why are we talking about it?
re-read the thread a few times, you'll get there.
for your consideration: what exactly is the relevance of the talent spread of a skill amongst MLB players to a discussion about Dayan Viciedo’s conversion to first? DV is not an MLB player so not subject to the same expectations. in fact, he’s just learning a new position.
this is part of a larger error made by fans anytime they think things along the lines of BUT WHEN I WAS 12 I STRUCK OUT AND MY FRIEND’S DAD I MEAN COACH MADE ME RUN A LAP SO THEY MUST BE BAD.
what matters in the MLB is the talent spread for a given skill. if everyone does it the same, there’s no competitive advantage and hence no runs above or below average.
I'd rather have Rios steal 50 bases than hit 50 home runs. I want production.
i understand your point
but i disagree that everyone playing 1B is the same. if you believe that, you never saw ron kittle play first or read about dick stuart. it is foolish to believe the difference between steve balboni and keith hernandez (ignoring range) is two runs/year.
if you understood my point
you wouldn’t respond like that. watching a butcher or two play first doesn’t tell you anything. studies have been done. the standard dev is very small.
and going back to your initial random rip on UZR, there’s enough problems with the stringer data that there’s no way adjusting for 1B scoops is going to change anything.
I'd rather have Rios steal 50 bases than hit 50 home runs. I want production.
your point: viciedo is not an MLB firstbaseman
he does not have the scoop skill yet.
can you point me in the direction of these studies that have been done?
cool. thanks
believe it or not i spent like 30 minutes searching on google using terms like “evaluating uzr for first basemen”
anyway, i’m totally on board with that study. “wowy” studies was a way back in the stone age to evaluate range.
the author concludes that the difference b/t the best and worst are roughly 4-6 runs, but then later adds in the comments that may be slightly low b/c there are other plays in which an error is not scored that are ignored. he says scooping is worth 25% of the defensive “package.” that’s totally plausible to me.
well you can do your own
1B scoops are on fangraphs:
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/rzr-and-new-fielding-stats/
but MGL has a post over there too:
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/first-basemen-scoops/
and here’s this from Dewan:
http://www.actasports.com/sow.php?id=221
btw, i googled all of these. they’re all on the first page of “first base scoops”.
I'd rather have Rios steal 50 bases than hit 50 home runs. I want production.
the dewan one
one would infer the difference b/t best and worst scoopers at around 15 scoops. i dunno the run equivalent, could be 6-8 runs.
a scoop not made is a 1B
and a scoop made is an out. on average those are worth .5 and -.3 runs. so the difference between them is .8 runs, making the run equivalent 12 runs if i did that math right. but the neither study is really on scoops themselves, it’s bad throws handled. and we’re not even talking 100 each, so the difference between these best and worst scoopers is probably much higher than the samples MGL was using and it’s probably much less telling.
per 1000 throws, the difference was +/-4 runs between best and worst. take my assertion for +/-2 to mean “about the standard dev”.
I'd rather have Rios steal 50 bases than hit 50 home runs. I want production.
i'll take your assertion
i’d like to ask dewan how many of those missed scoops wind up with the runner standing on second.
looks like mgl is using the method
i outlined:
So Todd is 5 plays, or around 4 runs, per season, above average at "scoops.
considering we are talking about saving errant throws (i.e. runs that would otherwise be attributed to whoever made the bad throw), i suppose it could be worth knowing how many advance to second. otoh, larry said it’s still common for catchers to hustle down the line to back up the throw. but let’s do the math:
a double on average is worth .75 runs, a single .5. so let’s say the number of bases on an errant throw to first is worth .7 runs. that makes it a full run between that and an out, or a 25% difference per play. so if MGL found +/-4 runs using his method, our method would yield +/- 5 runs per 1000 throws between the best and worst.
seriously, it’s not a big deal.
I'd rather have Rios steal 50 bases than hit 50 home runs. I want production.
i'd say in the vast majority of instances
the “errant” throw isn’t getting past the 1B, certainly not enough for a runner to advance. when a throw comes in on a bounce, just means it’s knocked down instead of caught.
i assume you know
but i picked .7 because it’s nearly .75 and works nicely with .3, not because i think that’s the percentage of runners who advance.
I'd rather have Rios steal 50 bases than hit 50 home runs. I want production.
i didn't even pay attention to that.
i was simply noting that i thought the likelihood of an event was small. while catching for an out is a bit of a skill, i think you’d have to be really, really awful to just completely whiff on throws.
well if they are in the dirt or bounce
saw that by paulie the other day. wasn’t his fault.
yes, we're talking about such throws.
and in the vast majority of instances, 1Bs don’t whiff. obviously it happens sometimes.
Kirby Puckett
John Kruk
Jim Thome isnt skinny…
a literal ton of pitchers…
Good God. That is horrible.~by 67WMAQ
god damnit.~by BuehrleMan
sigh~by Tdogg
This is fuck.~by The Actual El Guapo
reactions to Ozzies lineup 5/14(after an off day)
holy shit
if they cancel tomorrow's game too, it'll be the second-best lossless streak of the season
How shitty are we!!
-billyok
"Position players".
But the others are decent examples, though most are not within 15 years, or if so, were almost done 15 years ago. C. Lee is a good example. But he is the exception, or one of them. Most players are in better shape now than in previous decades.
when i was in 9th grade i was the only one in my entire boys choir to understood my teacher
by BoeJouma on May 11, 2010 5:46 PM EDT
AAA
I’m sure some of you guys have seen it posted around here, but for those who haven’t, I have some video from Sunday from Viciedo, Danks and Flowers …
cj 2-5, 2B
danks 1-6
viciedo 4-6, 3 2B
flowers 0-5, IBB
hudson 5 IP, 8 H, 2 BB (1 IBB), 8 K, 1 HBP, 1 WP
YES!!
Dayan has been my favorite Sox minor league player since last year, i’m very excited with the way he’s producing lately.
People have been pretty hard on the guy, i guess some was deserved with his contract but still.
"No doubt about it." - Big Hurt
Only hard on his effort at times
Everyone understands the Sox have pushed him aggressively but at times he’s had to have a foot up his ass for effort. He definitely has talent, the money never bothered me as it was the going rate for a “free agent” minor league recruit.
"Anywhere white people are poor, I'm afraid to go" Lawrence Holmes 670 the Score
Nah, it hasn't only been his effort.
A lot of scouts have criticized his overall skills offensively and defensively, even though he’s playing above his age level and still fairly new to the country. I’m sure most of the bad reviews were justified, i’m just saying that i’m happy for the guy as he hasn’t had too many positives in his young career. He’ll cool off soon but at least he’s got a taste of sustained success now, which should help his confidence.
Also, i’m almost always rooting for the Cubans/Domincans to succeed more than most other young guys.
"No doubt about it." - Big Hurt
I should have been clearer
I was referring to here on SS. I thought you were refering to people on the site. Definitely he’s taken abuse from scouts around baseball.
"Anywhere white people are poor, I'm afraid to go" Lawrence Holmes 670 the Score
Heh, nah i don't take in too much of what most of sss says.
A player can go from a future hall of famer to a bum that needs to be DFAd (and vice versa) within a week on this site.
"No doubt about it." - Big Hurt
i've read on other sites about how viciedo is now the #1 prospect in the white sox system.
certainly amazing what 65 PA can do, huh.
by larry on May 19, 2010 11:55 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
And just like
that Dayan now has a higher OPS than Flowers. Amazing. 1.041 OPS last ten games for Dayan. Not a single walk over those ten games. I would imagine that this is the point in time when IL pitchers will start feeding him a nice helping of balls outside the zone. It will be interesting to see if he starts drawing some walks.
Where I'm going, you can't follow. What I've got to do, you can't be any part of.
dash game one
short 1-4
escobar 0-4
gilmore 0-4
doyle 6 IP, 7 H, 1 BB, 6 K
rodriguez 2 IP, 4 H, 0 BB, 2 K
Much like he did last year at Double-A Birmingham, White Sox third baseman Dayan Viciedo got off to a slow start for Triple-A Charlotte. The 21-year-old Cuban, who hit just .234/.244/.299 in his first month with Birmingham last year, saw his average bottom out at .218/.232/.309 on April 22. Since then, Viciedo has hit a sizzling .356/.396/.678 with eight homers (the fourth most in the minors over that span) and 18 RBIs. Viciedo hasn’t changed his free-swinging ways, as he’s drawn just four walks all season, but he has managed to improve his contact rate noticeably over the last few weeks. After striking out 23 times in 83 at-bats in April, he’s whiffed just 10 times in 62 at-bats so far in May.
Viciedo had his biggest night of the young season Tuesday in Buffalo, going 4-for-6 with three doubles and an RBI, leading the Knights to an 8-6 win in 11 innings. Adding injury to insult for Buffalo, catcher Josh Thole injured his hip stepping on the bat of Charlotte’s Jordan Danks, who had just hit the go-ahead single. Thole left the game and will be re-evaluated today, according to the Buffalo News. Viciedo came up next and drilled his third double of the night, scoring Danks to give the Knights an insurance run.
It's an easy comp to make, so forgive my laziness
but I found it interesting that Kendry Morales’ minor league (career) walk rate wasn’t much better than Viciedo’s (a tad over 5% for Morales versus 4% for Viciedo). Viciedo is also well ahead of Morales’ age curve — Morales didn’t reach AAA until 23.
This is all too soon, of course, but Viciedo’s performance is one of the most encouraging happenings in the Sox organization this year. If the walk rate never changes he’s not destined for stardom or even greatness, but if he’s a legit .200+ IsO player, he should be a solidly average 1B-DH type, which would be well worth the $10 million investment.
Shirek's night: Eek!
Where is Ely when you need him? Oh.
when i was in 9th grade i was the only one in my entire boys choir to understood my teacher
by BoeJouma on May 11, 2010 5:46 PM EDT
That Embree is rounding into shape...
;)
when i was in 9th grade i was the only one in my entire boys choir to understood my teacher
by BoeJouma on May 11, 2010 5:46 PM EDT
look at that protection viciedo gets in the lineup
no wonder he never walks!
dash game two: 20 innings
amusingly, organizational filler C chase blackwood hit walk-off single – he’d been 0-8 with 6 K prior. infielder kyle shelton got the win.
short 1-7, BB, S, CS
escobar 1-7, 2 IBB, SB
gilmore 1-8, BB
remenowsky 2 IP, 1 H, 0 BB, 3 K
bellamy 3 IP, 0 H, 0 BB, 4 K
you mean a deerstalker?
"A brief but trenchant analysis of Scott Podsednik
He’s dogshit."
by NYRoyal on Jan 8, 2010 8:56 AM PST
one player's view of the dash' new ballpark
“This is a bigger yard,” said Loman, who played 81 games for the Dash in 2009, across town. “The ball doesn’t travel as well as it does over at Ernie Shore. The dimensions are bigger. The environment and everything else make up for the hitter friendliness at Ernie Shore, though.”
Choc. Toonder slump OVAH!
2 decent games innarow.
when i was in 9th grade i was the only one in my entire boys choir to understood my teacher
by BoeJouma on May 11, 2010 5:46 PM EDT
Chicago White Sox
Signed: LHP Alan Embree
Placed on 7-day DL: RHP Ricky Brooks, RHP Johnnie Lowe, 2B Drew Garcia
Reinstated from DL: RHP Matt Hopps, C Cole Armstrong, 2B Zach Kayne
http://www.baseballamerica.com/blog/prospects/?p=8808#more-8808
hot sheet
No. 8 DAYAN VICIEDO, 3B
WHITE SOX
Dayan ViciedoTeam: Triple-A Charlotte (International)
Age: 21
Why He’s Here: .333/.355/.667 (10-for-30), 4 2B, 2 HR, 5 R, 7 RBIs, 0 BB, 5 SO, 1 HBP
The Scoop: Let’s start with the good. After struggling mightily in his first pro season last year with Double-A Birmingham, Viciedo is batting .294/.325/.523 with nine home runs in 40 Triple-A games. He’s been a masher at home, benefiting from a hitter-friendly park in Charlotte to the tune of .327/.383/.691, and he’s crushed lefthanded pitching. A defensive liability last year at third base, Viciedo has moved to first base and made just one error. Yet there are still reasons to be skeptical. Viciedo has drawn just four walks all season, and away from Charlotte he’s hit .276/.290/.429. The power is very real, but Viciedo will have to do a better job recognizing offspeed pitches and working the count if he’s going to be able to make his good start sustainable.
http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/prospects/prospect-hot-sheet/2010/2610025.html
Friday, May 21st ('cause larry is an inconsiderate bastard for not doing it from the ballpark from his mobile device)
Danks 0-4, 4 Ks
Viciedo 1-3, BB
Flowers 0-4
Marquez bad
Birmingham:
Game 1:
Morel 1-2, BB
Game 2:
Morel 3-3, BB
Kannapolis:
Thompson 1-1, 2B
thank you!
if they cancel tomorrow's game too, it'll be the second-best lossless streak of the season
How shitty are we!!
-billyok
by blackoutsox on May 22, 2010 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions
5/22
Viciedo 2-5, 2 2b, 2 K
Danks 1-4, 2 K
Morel 0-2, bb
Morel 2-3
Short 2-5
Escobar 4-5, 3b, 2 hr
Thompson 1-3, bb
Gonzalez 1-4
this is my fault. larry has asked that i find a fill-in while he goes on a week-long bender at the school house.
Cashing checks and having sex.
by MarketMaker on May 23, 2010 12:21 AM CDT up reply actions
you know our trip is next weekend
you’re driving
"A brief but trenchant analysis of Scott Podsednik
He’s dogshit."
by NYRoyal on Jan 8, 2010 8:56 AM PST
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