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Around SBN: The Gift Of The 2003 Tigers

Old School Take on Winning Ugly


Saw this post on a game thread a few days back and thought I would put in my two cents worth.

Wish I knew an old-timer who gets the "winning ugly" thing from an ’83 standpoint.  by winningugly on Jul 16, 2010 4:45 AM PDT via mobile

 

Star-divide

First let me give you my ChiSox fandom pedigree.  I grew up on the NW side and graduated from Maine East High School.  My entire family and most of my friends were Cub fans.  It only took until I was 10 in '71 to see the light and start following a real baseball team.  I was that kid/teenager with the little transister radio under my pillow listening to Harry and Jimmy tell it like it was.  My earliest memory going to Old Comisky was a Sunday Bat-day Double Header.  I so wanted to be Bill Melton followed closely by Wilbur Wood.  My favorite team of all time was the original South Side Hitmen of '77.   Gamble and Fisk brought excitement to Old Comisky.   I made my way back to Chicago for grad school (92-94) during the next playoff run and celebrated the '05 World Series Champs from the Middle East.

Unfortunately, I left for college out west in '79 so was not in town to truly enjoy the '83 team.  I followed them the best I could through the media at the time.  I doubt I would have done very well at school if SSS or anything like it had existed back then.  The team played mediocre the first half but dominated the second half.  The pitching staff carried the team with Hoyt, Dotson, and Bannister all eating innings and opposing batters for lunch and dinner.  The strong pitching meant the team was in a lot of close games and often won them with a sac fly here or a bloop there.  During their hot streak, the Sox took 3 of 4 from Texas and the Texas coach (Doug Rader) was not particularly impressed with the White Sox.  He said they would probably be the third or fourth best team in the East (maybe a bit of truth to that) and that the White Sox were winning ugly.  The local media and fans picked it up and it stuck as the team mantra. 

The team had its share of good hitters too.  Rookie Kittle and veteran Paciorek had career years.  Kittle and Luzinski hit plenty of those majestic, towering shots into the upper deck at Comisky before either the balls or the players were juiced.  A young Harold Baines and rookie Greg Walker put up strong numbers as well.  Carlton Fisk handled the staff masterfully.  Rudy Law could have been a perfect lead-off hitter if he was a bit more patient with the bat.  He ended the year with 77 stolen bases and 95 runs.  The team lead the league with 800 runs scored and ran away with the division.  They locked up the division in early September and won by a whopping 20 games.

My most vivid memories are from the playoffs since I actually got to listen to them on national radio.  Hoyt had won 14 straight in the second half and started the series off with a complete game win 2-1.  The Sox bats remained silent for the rest of the series.  They could not buy a clutch hit plating only 4 in the 4 game series.  Game 4 was most excruciating.  I was on a date with my fiance at the time.  We had a picnic with her sister and brother-in-law.  I rudely stayed in the car listening to the game as both pitchers put up zeros through 9 innings.  The winning ugly Sox had 10 hits in 10 innings and could not manufacture a run.  Britt Burns pitched 9 shut-out innings but gave up a home run to Tito Landrum in the 10th.  If not for Sox shortstop Jerry "Dumb"zinski's bonehead baserunning blunder, Burns' gem would likely be regarded as one of the great Sox highlights and Tito Landrum's name would not bring nightmares to Old School Sox fans.  Old schoolers know Lamar Hoyt would have won game 5 and Sox fans would not have had to wait another 20+ years to win the World Series.  Needless to say, I was depressed and my fiance's twin was not overly impressed.  I eventually got over it and she still married me.  At least I can say, "Honey, you should have seen it coming" when I spend way too much time at odd hours on the computer laughing and cursing with my new SSS friends.

SouthSideSox is a community driven site. As such, users are able to express their thoughts and opinions in a FanPost, such as this one, which represents the views of this particular fan, but not necessarily the entire community or SouthSideSox editors.

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Nice. A couple more things...

The biggest turning point seemed to be the trade of Tony Bernazard for Julio Cruz half way through June. That’s how I remember it, and how it was recorded in history. But looking back at the numbers it’s amazing just how bad Cruz was offensively. His defense though holds up in the “old memory/eye test”. I suspect that the pitchers would’ve dominated the second half regardless of who was playing second.

It felt like the Sox were never out of a game that year, and that may be true as they “came back” 47 times verus “coughing it up” only 27.

Unsung/unremembered:
Jerry Hairston: OPS+ 142
Salome Barojas: ERA+ 170

Lastly, most people remember Kittle’s ROY in ‘83. It wasn’t a bad debut, but he was probably the 4th best hitter on the team behind Fisk, Luzinski, and Paciorek.

More later…

"If you want to know what God thinks of money, just look at the people he gave it to."
— Dorothy Parker

by Chiburb on Jul 19, 2010 2:43 PM CDT reply actions  

thanks.

and just so you know, the cheat was the one asking for an old timers view. winningugly was just being a wisenheimer. he’s older than you!!!

hey swisher...........you know.

by BuehrleMan on Jul 19, 2010 3:02 PM CDT reply actions  

You are welcome

and thanks for straightening me out. I have not been around long enough to get all the sarcasm but I am a quick learner.

The longer the wait, the greater the joy. Sox05, Hawks10

by Old School ChiTown on Jul 19, 2010 11:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

All you had to do was read the thread

to see what Cheat was asking for. OPOS, welcome.

You will look at my bicep and you will see a 20-inch bicep and you will say "Wow, look what this training has done" - that's the obvious. The harder you work, the more you gain, there's no shortcut, and that each time you fail, that you just got to get up and try again. (Arnold Schwarzenegger)

by winningugly on Jul 20, 2010 6:38 AM CDT up reply actions  

Okay, maybe I am not so quick a learner

but at least this was not a reply fail.

The longer the wait, the greater the joy. Sox05, Hawks10

by Old School ChiTown on Jul 20, 2010 9:55 AM CDT up reply actions   2 recs

thanx old school

and congratulations to be the first sss’er to follow the request of a post for this instead of a whole buncha nonsensical comments. well maybe not nonsensical like the ones i make, but you get my point.

also congrats on the wifey…obviously you found a keeper and put her to the test from the get go. thats chicago tuff

Just taking a couple minutes to act like a retard.
Thank you, thank you, SSS. Thank you for accepting people who act like retards, if not actual retards. by Mitch. on Jun 24, 2010 1:16 PM CDT

by Grinder Rule #42 on Jul 19, 2010 3:52 PM CDT reply actions  

You'll weclome Grinder

Yes, I found a keeper. I think I have made her a bit of a sports fan over the years.

The longer the wait, the greater the joy. Sox05, Hawks10

by Old School ChiTown on Jul 19, 2010 11:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

double win

Just taking a couple minutes to act like a retard.
Thank you, thank you, SSS. Thank you for accepting people who act like retards, if not actual retards. by Mitch. on Jun 24, 2010 1:16 PM CDT

by Grinder Rule #42 on Jul 20, 2010 10:26 AM CDT up reply actions  

I can remember being a mild mannered child at a game in 83.

my brother had to go to the bathroom so my dad was going to take us, but I refused to go with because the Sox were coming up, specifically my favorite player Luzinski. Pops gave me a weird look, either that he was proud I was paying attention or worried that I was going to be by myself for an inning or so. Anyway he let 8 year old me stay in the seats, and with dad gone and Luzinski at the plate I was screaming “Lets Go Bull!” like a maniac. It was memorable because the old man usually sat there stoic watching the game so I did too, but without supervision I really enjoyed cutting loose.

I want to say Harold Baines homered that game and the Sox won. But who knows, I dont even remember who they were playing or anything else.

you might be able to make movie that yourself
depends.
by Trooper on Jul 12, 2010 8:25 PM

by e-gus on Jul 19, 2010 4:35 PM CDT reply actions   1 recs

ha,

my dad made me walk with my brother to the restroom, and i was pissed. even more pissed when the fucker found $20 on the ground. then some drunk guy bought us new hats when some drunk girl thought we were cute for fighting over said $20.

that was my most memorable experience at ol comisky as i was only 6, and we never went to another game there after that season :( pops says it’s cause they moved our seats during the allstar fame and the post season blunder, but now that i think about it, it had to be how they ended that year that really made him lose any and all enthusiasm!?!

Just taking a couple minutes to act like a retard.
Thank you, thank you, SSS. Thank you for accepting people who act like retards, if not actual retards. by Mitch. on Jun 24, 2010 1:16 PM CDT

by Grinder Rule #42 on Jul 19, 2010 6:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

holy shit you are fucking old!

"from the Chi, the city of hella haters, where we keep rising to the top like elevators. Hi haters I'm back off hiatus." - grammy family

by Where Triples Go to Die on Jul 19, 2010 8:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yep.

He is unemployed.

You will look at my bicep and you will see a 20-inch bicep and you will say "Wow, look what this training has done" - that's the obvious. The harder you work, the more you gain, there's no shortcut, and that each time you fail, that you just got to get up and try again. (Arnold Schwarzenegger)

by winningugly on Jul 20, 2010 7:58 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

i wonder why?

I picture wtgtd as the Farva of the warehouse or whatever menial job he does

Just taking a couple minutes to act like a retard.
Thank you, thank you, SSS. Thank you for accepting people who act like retards, if not actual retards. by Mitch. on Jun 24, 2010 1:16 PM CDT

by Grinder Rule #42 on Jul 20, 2010 10:33 AM CDT up reply actions  

Farva,

Spits coke at the screen laughing.

"Yes, I am impatient. Yes, I am frustrated. But yes, I still do remain confident that this team is the team that can still challenge for the division championship and hopefully beyond. We've got a lot of good pieces, we just need to all come together and we'll be just fine."

- Kenny Williams

by justjc on Jul 21, 2010 2:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

Hilarious

I spent most games in the outfield upper deck. The thing I remember most is the strange smelling cigarettes.

The longer the wait, the greater the joy. Sox05, Hawks10

by Old School ChiTown on Jul 19, 2010 11:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

nice write up

‘83 was a heartbreaker, everyone was just praying to get to Game 5 for Hoyt’s start. There was a lot of debate about starting him Game 4 on short rest, but Burns pitched the game of his life. Tony “Dusty” La Russa left him out there for precisely 150 pitches after he’d spent a good chunk of the season on the DL. Shockingly he spent another half of 1984 on the DL.

I am become Q! Destroyer of Worlds

by ChicagoPete on Jul 20, 2010 7:58 AM CDT up reply actions  

Also...

There wasn’t much reason to expect the result pre-season. Unlike this year, where we expected great pitching to overcome holes in the offense (at least enough to remain competitive), there was NO optimism going into ’03. That was certainly how the first half played out, hanging close to .500 into July(?).

What the starters did, with MUCH help from the bullpen (I think Lamp actually started a few games too), was magical. Combined with a “hero of the day” offense, they lapped the field in under 80 games.
That part was very much like ‘05, and not like the current team’s reliance on the middle of the lineup so far. And THAT’S what makes me optimistic now: they’re a V-8 that’s been running on 3 or 4 cylinders. Kicking it up to 6 or 7 with the existing roster (Bacon, Che, AJ) could make this Deja Vu all over again.

"If you want to know what God thinks of money, just look at the people he gave it to."
— Dorothy Parker

by Chiburb on Jul 19, 2010 5:21 PM CDT via mobile reply actions  

i was at U of I during the 83 run and

My fondest memory was how dominant Hoyt was. And yes he would have won Game 5 over a vastly superior Oriole offensive team. His control and command was absolute pinpoint. He could backdoor lefties with a drop down slider/slurve and had a fastball that backed up into righties. Change speeds with same motion. Basically he could put every pitch wherever he wanted. A pure joy to watch.

Of course his demons must have been known inside the organization because he was shipped out to San Diego for you-know-who and the rest is history.

by Duck99 on Jul 19, 2010 9:11 PM CDT via mobile reply actions  

I agree Hoyt was dominate that season, but the Orioles offense wasn't

vastly superior. The Sox actually led the AL in runs that year and a lineup featuring Todd Cruz, Rick Dempsey and Rich Daur isn’t exactly the ’27 Yankees.

To me, the offenses are the biggest difference between this season and ‘83. Even though my youth and the magic of rooftop homers probably causes me to exaggerate the prowess of Kittle and Luzinski, the ’83 Sox could mash for their era. This team can’t and I tend to assume they are in trouble if the starter isn’t lights out. I never really thought the ’83 was out of a game.

by dtv on Jul 25, 2010 4:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

My dad aka Big Jer

is a huge sox fan and i think took me to about 45 games in 1983 even though i was about to turn 4 years old to get out of the house and away from my mom…. didn’t think that then but now that I have a son and know my wife doesn’t give me static if i bring the kid… i’ve come up with the theory….

anyway those were my earliest memories. Big Jer smoking his cigar while Dick Dotson and lamarr hoyt threw gem after gem. I remember Jerry Hairiston coming through with a lot of big hits…. I remember thinking Greg Luzinski and Harold Baines were cooler than any cartoon out there…. and I started my life long love affair with Ron Kittle. The dude hit the longest and highest home runs I have ever seen. I remember running on the field after the clincher and i remember the tito landrum home run fly out of the park and being so sad on the way home.

Kenwo4life=ratings

by KenWo4LiFe on Jul 20, 2010 9:12 AM CDT reply actions  

WTF is an "SBN Chicago Editor's Pick"?

I bet Cheat has never won one of those!
Hee.

"If you want to know what God thinks of money, just look at the people he gave it to."
— Dorothy Parker

by Chiburb on Jul 20, 2010 11:33 AM CDT reply actions  

Whaa, did I win something?

So where is my cheesesteak, dagnabit.

The longer the wait, the greater the joy. Sox05, Hawks10

by Old School ChiTown on Jul 21, 2010 3:06 AM CDT up reply actions  

deep dish

something tells me even the mafia wouldn't call on greg walker if a hit was needed.

-MarketMaker

by blackoutsox on Jul 21, 2010 7:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

Nice story, Old School.

And everyone, really. I can’t wait to be writing about my memories of 2005 and 2010 in about thirty years.

The bluebird can sing, but the crow's got the soul.

by Teahenny Penny on Jul 20, 2010 1:26 PM CDT reply actions  

My memories

I remember how dominant the pitching staff became for the last 2/3 of the season. At some point (and I won’t look it up) it seemed that they were winning every series and even splitting a 4 game set was disappointing. I remember them hitting 20 games over five hundred and playing the ‘if they only go .500 the rest of the way, everyone else needs to play .600 ball, then .700 ball, etc.’ I was sure something would collapse, but nothing did.

Finally the playoffs, with Hoyt pitching great in game one and now only needing a split. Besides Dybzinski’s brain fart, the two other memorable items was the young Cal Ripken getting drilled by (I think Dotson) in what was clearly frustration. It could have incited the Sox but instead Ripkin just went to 1st not acknowledging the intent, scored, and the Orioles looked they knew a little more about the playoffs than the Sox did.

The next was the failure of Baines (2-16 with a walk) and particularly Luzinski (2-15 with a walk and 5 SO). The Orioles consistently pounded him inside and pushed him off the plate and didn’t let him dive over the plate. His face was like a baby saying, “Wait, I’m The Bull!! I’m big and look strong and I’ve been in the playoffs before! You can’t pitch me inside, not fair!”

I hated him for being such a pussy. But that was 27 years ago. I can let go. He’s still a pussy, though.

And then the Orioles waltzed through the World Series and the Ripken legend was just starting.

Show mercy. I get to watch the Rangers.

by Tim from Texas on Jul 20, 2010 6:28 PM CDT reply actions   1 recs

Very nice, thanks.

"If you want to know what God thinks of money, just look at the people he gave it to."
— Dorothy Parker

by Chiburb on Jul 20, 2010 6:53 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

Thx.

"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else."
Earl Weaver

by Chiburb on Jul 23, 2010 11:21 AM CDT up reply actions  

I appreciate yours, too.

Its sort of a chess match right now but some upgrades are still possible with very little cost except money.
by Tdogg on Jul 23, 2010 10:13 AM EDT

by winningugly on Jul 23, 2010 12:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

You're welcome.

Its sort of a chess match right now but some upgrades are still possible with very little cost except money.
by Tdogg on Jul 23, 2010 10:13 AM EDT

by winningugly on Jul 23, 2010 2:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

Thanks

Great story. I agree it was a magical year despite the playoff disappointment. The first time is always the sweetest. You could say the Sox kicked off a nice little run for Chicago sports after a long drought.

The longer the wait, the greater the joy. Sox05, Hawks10

by Old School ChiTown on Jul 23, 2010 2:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

oh, to be young and working at a detox clinic.

Cashing checks and having sex. Also doing some light medical diagnoses.

by MarketMaker on Jul 23, 2010 4:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

lol

you might be able to make movie that yourself
depends.
by Trooper on Jul 12, 2010 8:25 PM

by e-gus on Jul 23, 2010 4:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

rec'd for bringing back many good memories but.......

don’t include the early 60’s as part of the wasteland. those were some of the best teams in white sox history, we just couldn’t beat the yankees back then.

I photoshopped a boner on the security guard but it's too dark to see --- billyok

by mick10 on Jul 23, 2010 6:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

I was speaking from a "rings" standpoint.

I agree. 1967 was fantastic as a 10 year-old.

Its sort of a chess match right now but some upgrades are still possible with very little cost except money.
by Tdogg on Jul 23, 2010 10:13 AM EDT

by winningugly on Jul 23, 2010 7:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

Very cool. Thank you.

"and to think that we're sex games over .500" - blackoutsox

by RWShow on Jul 25, 2010 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

Small world

While you were working at Lawson I was working at Loyola. We maybe even were both at the Emerald Isle for free beer or Pippins for not free beer.

Anyway, Burns deserved better than what he got. Going back out there in the 10th with a 140 or so pitches under his belt in a tie game of a must win situation. So let me say it clearly so there is not ambiguity – fuck you Tony!

Comonnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn You White Sox!

by zokmaad on Jul 25, 2010 2:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

Didn't pay too much attention to pitch counts then, zok.

I was getting my Masters at Loyola the following year. What were you doing there?

Its sort of a chess match right now but some upgrades are still possible with very little cost except money.
by Tdogg on Jul 23, 2010 10:13 AM EDT

by winningugly on Jul 25, 2010 2:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

Comp Sci

I worked in the basement of Seidenberg – Student programmng advisor. $WPAPCC.

Comonnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn You White Sox!

by zokmaad on Jul 25, 2010 2:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

Sounds like a sweatshop

unless the provided the strippers and blow.

Its sort of a chess match right now but some upgrades are still possible with very little cost except money.
by Tdogg on Jul 23, 2010 10:13 AM EDT

by winningugly on Jul 25, 2010 2:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

Nope

but I levereged that job into a career that made it worth every drop. And I thank my lucky stars blow never did anything for me.

I take it your MS never got you near the computers.

Comonnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn You White Sox!

by zokmaad on Jul 25, 2010 3:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

M.Ed.

And you are correct. Look at how I type! If I worked in computers I’d have lasted 2 days.

Its sort of a chess match right now but some upgrades are still possible with very little cost except money.
by Tdogg on Jul 23, 2010 10:13 AM EDT

by winningugly on Jul 25, 2010 3:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

pippins is a good dive bar. streeters has been good to me, too.

Cashing checks and having sex. Also doing some light medical diagnoses.

by MarketMaker on Jul 25, 2010 3:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

Nice.

bout time you did something worth while around here.

Kenwo4life=ratings

by KenWo4LiFe on Jul 25, 2010 6:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

You mean other than beat your ass like a drum in SSS fantasy baseball?

;)

Its sort of a chess match right now but some upgrades are still possible with very little cost except money.
by Tdogg on Jul 23, 2010 10:13 AM EDT

by winningugly on Jul 25, 2010 7:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

lol

blow me fucker

Kenwo4life=ratings

by KenWo4LiFe on Jul 25, 2010 8:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

I was 22

I really can’t recall going to a game that year. I wonder though if that’s due to a mental block caused by the end of the year.

1983 did cement a long and still intact loathing of Tony LaRussa. Don’t bother defending him I don’t want to hear it now or ever.

One thing bout 83 that may not have been mentioned is that it was followed by 84. 84 is the year we officially lost the city to the Cubs. 83 was the last year most people out side Chicago knew there were two teams here – until 2005.

Comonnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn You White Sox!

by zokmaad on Jul 25, 2010 1:43 PM CDT reply actions  

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