Dunn for Hudson plus Danks, Flowers, or Morel?
by TheIronSchenk on Jul 28, 2010 12:15 AM CDT
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Saw this today on MLB trade rumors
The Nationals want Daniel Hudson plus one of Jordan Danks, Tyler Flowers or Brent Morel for Dunn, a source told Bruce Levine of ESPNChicago. The Nationals offered Dunn for Gordon Beckham, but the White Sox turned the proposal down.
Don't we have to pull the trigger on this? Ship out Flowers(Who seems to be falling off the table anyway) or Danks and use Carlos Torres as the fifth starter?
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Absolutely
Dunn makes what, 10 million this year? (I’ve always thought of his deal as 2/3 of the Milton Bradley deal)
I don’t think Jerry would be afraid to of any potential raise from that number Dunn would receive should he accept the arbitration.
So barring some bizarre and horrific injury that would take him out of commission for much of next season, or perhaps to a shady surgeon in Vienna or something- he’s at the least going to bring us the draft picks in return.
I would trade any of those four guys for a Sandwich pick straight up.
If Danks and Flowers don’t turn it around I would probably trade them for just a sandwich.
It wouldn’t even need to be that delicious of a sandwich.
Im glad that most people (so far) agree with me
This is a no brainer…We keep Beckham and Morel, and have a serviceable fill in for Hudson in Torres. If I’m Kenny, I’m on the phone tomorrow and this deal is done and public by Thursday.
''I'm not in the gym every morning now for the Cy Young. I want what the boys did in 2005. I want that dog pile, that memory, that ring.''
by TheIronSchenk on Jul 28, 2010 1:10 AM CDT up reply actions
This is not a no brainer and Torres is not serviceable
"it’s over, tdogg.
no. it’s not unlike me. when i make an unqualified statement, it means i’m sure i’m right" Larry
my sandwich demands
are dictated by my gut.
I was very hungry last night when I made this claim.
upon further review (as well as a meal), I would not trade any of these players for a sandwich.
Hudson + Jordan, Dunn+ something minor for Hudson + Morel, Hudson + Flowers only if we get something lined up at C.
"We can't do it easy. But we may as well do it high." -The Cheat
by South Side Expat on Jul 28, 2010 1:31 AM CDT reply actions
I think folks are blinded by Dunn
Why the hell would I give Hudson plus anything? Why give Hudson?
"it’s over, tdogg.
no. it’s not unlike me. when i make an unqualified statement, it means i’m sure i’m right" Larry
Agree. Agree. Agree.
Just need to convince Oz to keep Kotsay out of lineup atleast five days a week once Teahen gets back.
Torres, Harrell and Trayce Thompson for Luke Scott and Miguel Tejada.
Best move we could make.
If you could clarify more to help put the kabash on this, that would be great
I have my own case:
1. Hudson provides depth in the existing rotation that is necessary for winning the division this year. ZIPS projected FIP the rest of the way is 3.99. I’ll take that from a 4th or 5th starter.
2. Let’s say we don’t need to rely on rotation depth the rest of the way to win the division..we will still be looking for a starting pitcher, or possibly two, in the offseason should Freddy move on to greener pastures.
3. If Hudson is projected with a ceiling as high as a #3 starter, according to some on this site, his value greatly outweighs the short term rental in Dunn.
4. Carlos Torres is not Daniel Hudson
5. There are cheaper alternatives than Dunn in Luke Scott and Adam LaRoche
This is like having Marshall Faulk on your fantasy football team in 2000 and screwing up the rest of your draft to finish 7th.
by onlysoxfaninbasel on Jul 28, 2010 9:33 AM CDT up reply actions
read colin's post on this matter from a few weeks ago.
dunn is perhaps, generously, worth 1.5 wins to the white sox at this point. admittedly, it’s a tight race in the central so his value is more to the white sox. there are some draft picks to potentially be had. on the other hand, he’s paid what he’s worth in salary. that surplus value gets you brent morel. throw in jordan danks if you want. you certainly do not get dan hudson.
these projections quoted for hudson strike me as wildly optimistic. even having said that, there is no other pitcher in the white sox organization who can start. carlos torres has a walk rate of 4 per 9 IP and a k rate of 8.5 per 9 IP at charlotte. that doesn’t translate well to the majors. giving up hudson means you’re probably giving back a good portion of the gain from dunn.
i suspect that if KW were to include hudson, there would have to be a starting pitcher coming back from the nationals.
thanks!
This is like having Marshall Faulk on your fantasy football team in 2000 and screwing up the rest of your draft to finish 7th.
by onlysoxfaninbasel on Jul 28, 2010 9:52 AM CDT up reply actions
these
this to larry and osfib
-Jeeves Life in the Cell
Definite overpay
I think you guys are underestimating Hudson’s value. Even if he is only an average pitcher, he has huge surplus value because he is cost controlled for 6 years. An average starter on the open market costs between $8-10MM. For his first three years before abritration that would be $24 to $30 MM of surplus value.
A couple months of Dunn and a marginal improvement in the cahnces of making the playoffs is not worth $24+ MM.
yes, this relates to #2 and #3...folks here are definitely underestimating the value of starting pitching
This is like having Marshall Faulk on your fantasy football team in 2000 and screwing up the rest of your draft to finish 7th.
by onlysoxfaninbasel on Jul 28, 2010 9:35 AM CDT up reply actions
Don't fill one hole by creating another.
Rizzo will come down on price as he figures out the White Sox are the only real suitors he has. If not, Luke Scott could be had cheaper.
"You’re a cunt, but i’ve got ethics." - U-God
The Nats don't want to pay Dunn!
If the Nationals organization does not believe Dunn is worth what he’s asking – why would any other organization ship any top prospects for half the season.
Rizzo is undermining his own position.
Theain is the guy I Just can’t stand! pierre is almost as bad,he dose get on base more. If Quntin gets any worse trade him. WE NEED HELP!
Just curious: First time I've seen the name Thelron. Is that German?
Thx.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else."
Earl Weaver
self whosh?
SSS has been able to get a lot of value out of him, but I imagine other sites look at his age and the some of the garbage he’s typing and think that he could be one terrible mistyped post from hanging them up.
-Sox Machine on winningugly
Look! I whoshed for supper!
"Before you can say 'sounds of the game,' Mark Kotsay is out." -Chris Rose
by Teahenny Penny on Jul 29, 2010 2:34 AM CDT up reply actions
My surname is Schenkel (indeed german)
But I’m a Scotsman. Its a play off The Iron Sheik.
''I'm not in the gym every morning now for the Cy Young. I want what the boys did in 2005. I want that dog pile, that memory, that ring.''
by TheIronSchenk on Jul 28, 2010 1:24 PM CDT up reply actions
Ah. I thought it was an L, as in THEL-RON.
Thx.
"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else."
Earl Weaver
he's actually L. Ron Hubbard
his spirit had an affinity for names that have L Ron in it or however that, um, religion works
-Jeeves Life in the Cell
Hudson + anyone is too much imo.
I don’t care much for Danks and don’t mind giving up Morel, but I don’t want Hudson and/or Flowers moved unless it’s a better deal.
KW just please go get Luke Scott already.
"No doubt about it." - Big Hurt
Luke Scott
I feel like I’ve been saying it for a month now. Would he even cost us a top-10 prospect?
it's unfortunate that the white sox have only six top-10 prospects.
by larry on Jul 28, 2010 8:13 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
heh
something tells me even the mafia wouldn't call on greg walker if a hit was needed.
-MarketMaker
by blackoutsox on Jul 28, 2010 10:23 PM CDT up reply actions
I think you have to go for it...
Dunn will be able to absolutely crush the ball at the cell. You can give Konerko breaks at first. Dunn could be resigned for a two year deal or something as well.
I trust in Kenny and the rest of this organization, they will do what is best to win. We have a shot at it this year and have to go for it.
Hudson
Reminds me a lot of Brandon McCarthy.
I never would’ve expected McCarthy’s career to fall of the table the way it has.
I think this is perhaps the primary reason why I’m not very high on Hudson.
It's amazing how true of a statement that is
So…
2010: Hudson
2005: McCarthy
2000: Garland
1995: Jason Bere
1990: Alex Fernandez
Is it blasphemous
That I ignored Danny Wright & Scott Ruffcorn?
Because I really can’t recall any other highly regarded right handed pitching prospects in the last two decades (though the early 90’s are shady as I was born in ‘85. I’m pretty confident in my memory from ’98 onward)
i loved that guy. it's always interesting looking at the numbers of guys you grew up a fan of.
Cashing checks and having sex.
by MarketMaker on Jul 29, 2010 12:06 PM CDT up reply actions
yeah lets ignore that whole 2005 thing for Garland
or how pretty much every team can make a list like that
something tells me even the mafia wouldn't call on greg walker if a hit was needed.
-MarketMaker
by blackoutsox on Jul 28, 2010 10:24 PM CDT up reply actions
I think the point was that we seem to have a good RHP prospect every 5 years or so
So the fact that Garland panned out is no more or less relevant than the fact that Brandon McCarthy didn’t.
It’s the zeitgeist of the team, man… how the franchise seems to feel very good about a RHP in the high minors/majors every 5 years.
plus I always felt that Garland's best year was 2006
With Buehrle having a career-worst year and Hobby Basket (that’s Javier Vazquez in Ozzie) pitching like a bust, it seemed like Garland was carrying the Staff in ’06.
no hudson. not at all. nope no way never.
Hudson and one of those minor leaguers for Fielder? yes sir. absolutely. right away. Dunn is no bueno in my book. My book rules. Morel and an A level pitcher for Dunn is fair. If not, fine; Washington, you re-sign dunn. you are dunn washington. its over. leave the whitesox alone with your ridiculousness.
"There's too many (bleeping) guys on the computer. It's simple. I say that. Pete Rose never watched a computer. Rod Carew never did. All those hitters, they go out and see the ball, hit it and move on." - Ozzie
bartender, i'll have whatever he's having.
I photoshopped a boner on the security guard but it's too dark to see --- billyok
you been drinking a lot lately?
Cashing checks and having sex.
by MarketMaker on Jul 29, 2010 12:08 PM CDT up reply actions
that's a funny trade. not happening at all
2010 STANLEY CUP CHAMPION CHICAGO BLACKHAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! FIRST PLACE CHICAGO WHITE SOX! I'm not short but my temper is....
by pierzynskirules on Jul 29, 2010 10:23 AM CDT reply actions
pr preaches the truth
something tells me even the mafia wouldn't call on greg walker if a hit was needed.
-MarketMaker
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