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The Future In The Instant

Macbeth_medium

 

Hie thee hither

That I may pour my spirits in thine ear

And chastise with the valour of my tongue

All that impedes thee from the golden round

-Don Cooper to Kenny Williams

 

Let's make this easy and assume that the White Sox did their due dilligence and then some.  That is, it's a given that they would have been fine without flipping Jackson for Dunn.  Dunn would have been ideal since he would have signed a cut rate deal to DH/1B for the next few years, clearly filling a gaping hole left by Thome and then Konerko and no one would remember Dan HudsonSock a few dingers! etc.  But instead we're here and Don Cooper did indeed see something he can fix.  Even assuming all that, can a year and some fraction of Edwin Jackson be worth having over Dan Hudson and the accompanying cheapness? 

We can actually address this with some research Victor Wang did on how top 100 Baseball America prospects (1990-1999) have performed.  Young pitchers, even the very best, are worth significantly less than their similarly rated position prospect counterparts.  Basically, the top 50 pitchers are worth about the same as the 51-100 hitters.*  And how good is that?

 

Prospect busts if he averages 0 Wins Above Replacement over his first 6 years of service (the cheap ones).  Contributor: averages 0-2 WAR. Everyday: 2-4 WAR. Star: 4+ WAR. 

The takeaway: the vast majority never reach 2+ WAR/season status over their first 6 years.  So should we have been expecting Hudson to fill that last starter spot come 2011?

Star-divide

Hudson was ranked 66th by Baseball America, 55th by Baseball Prospectus, and if Firefox's cntrl+f is functioning properly, Keith Law left him out completely.  All told, he's probably somewhere in the top 100 given his performance so far.  If we turn the above chart into hard numbers, we find Hudson's cohort provided about .75 wins per season** on average.  After accounting for paying arbitration in years 4-6, typically 3 of those 4.5 wins only cost a roster spot and MLB minimum salary.  And notice:  the vast majority never reach anything remotely resembling a fixed Edwin Jackson.

Unfortunately, this is kind of a harsh light.  Most prospects on those lists in Wang's study weren't in AAA and we're probably younger than Hudson's 23 years.  Many of them would crash and burn BEFORE seeing the big leagues.  Hudson's mere survival to this point suggests he'll be about as injury prone as any other established major league pitcher.  According to Nate Silver and Will Carroll, most pitchers who survive their age 22 season are through what they call the injury nexus.  Which is an awesome way to describe the point at which a pitcher reaches approximately normal injury risk.  We can't necessarily assume Hudson is average for his cohort and Jackson has obviously cleared the hurdle.  So there's some marginal gain in health to be had with Jackson, but probably not that much.  In this case, a 5% difference in injury rate doesn't matter in a season or two of play.  And yet somehow we're living in a world where the Sox prefer the 2 pitch starter that doesn't cost 30% of market for 6 years.

If it wasn't health, what about talent?  Still not much separation between the two.  Both have plus stuff with some limitations and command/control concerns.  So it comes down to something less tangible and scientifically quantifiable.  Mechanics, athleticism, feel, spirit, clutch.  The speculated at. 

The whole point of scouting is to be able to step in and make useful statements about small samples.  Look into the seeds of time and say which will grow.  What is it about Jackson's motion that spells out "easy fix" that Hudson's lacks?  Is there anything the fairly advanced prospects (Richard, Poreda, Hudson) the Sox recently traded have in common?  Poor feel on their breaking ball?  I haven't seen anything watching Hudson's starts and I'm not sure where I'd look.  Either way, Kenny's faith in his scouts and his own scouting prowess have powered his successes in the past.

So let's revisit those assumptions.  Don Cooper IS going to turn Jackson into the star everyone thought he'd be.  Coop has his own dark magick and it's just a matter of how good we want Jackson.  And at minimum we want him to make up those 3 free wins a typical top 100 pitcher is worth.  Jackson's going to make about 10 million over the rest of this season and the next, worth about 2.5 wins on the open market.  So he needs to be worth 5.5 wins over the remainder of his contract.  That's Buehrle-Floyd-Danks-Peavy Performance, a full run per nine or so better than his career line.  In old-fashioned terms, that's like a 3.80 - 4.00 ERA.

If Hudson is Anything Special, to break even on the deal the Sox will need Jackson to bump BFDPP up to Sabathia-Haren-Lester Performance, since to get that value they'd need to extend his contract past arb into free agency years.  With Scott Boras as his agent.  On top of that, A-type compensation for Jackson wouldn't even make up half the value of Anything Special.

So, yeah, it might just all work out.  Rizzo's a feckless traitor but KW's scouts gave him the go ahead and Coop'll do the dirty work.  Yet another playoff run will follow and Kenny will be crowned king on the South Side.  In the end a quiet affair, but surprisingly poignant: it turns out wishing makes it so.  Kenny wanted to make a splash, made a splash and kept on winning.  It's always worth it if you keep winning.

 

*Sidenote: the suggestion of the research is that you should go for depth in your pitching prospects.  The slope from best to worst pitchers is not as steep as the drop off from best to worst hitters.  So it's tough to make up for missing out on the best hitters, but you could do it collecting a lot of solid pitchers.

**Technically, this should have been a bit lower.  3/4 is easy to work with.  Sue me.

Comment 99 comments  |  1 recs  | 

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wow nice works

Oz on Swish HR celeb: "That's the way he is. Good for him, enjoy it. I wish he could do it for me, he was a very horseshit player for me.''

by OznCoop on Aug 3, 2010 9:06 AM CDT reply actions  

Nice article

The edwin jackson part makes me sick to my stomach.

by BaseballRainMan on Aug 3, 2010 9:09 AM CDT reply actions  

turning one's bad feelings into numbers....

In order to confirm bad feelings. Having lost some confidence in Kenny, I’m glad I still find comfort in Coop’s magick.

Excellent article!

His name is Rios and he dances on the sand

by Nordhagen on Aug 3, 2010 9:37 AM CDT reply actions  

If I may...

I am sad. I am depressed. I want cake.

That scores me a 7.8 on the DFEC scale (depressed F****** eating cake)

Hey- I am a 7.8 on the DFEC!

I deserve some F**** cake!

"Fuck fangraphs and your fancy designer stats can go pound some hard sand"- Billyok

by DrEmilioLizardo on Aug 3, 2010 11:39 AM CDT up reply actions  

Cake? Did someone say cake?

I see it's "no criminal record" night at the ballpark -- billyok before a game against the A's
I have witnessed the 2005 World Series championship, Mark Buehrle's perfect game, and the 2010 Chicago Blackhawks Stanley Cup championship in my lifetime.

by chisoxfan1473 on Aug 3, 2010 11:44 AM CDT up reply actions  

where the hell is the cheat?

SSS has been able to get a lot of value out of him, but I imagine other sites look at his age and the some of the garbage he’s typing and think that he could be one terrible mistyped post from hanging them up.
-Sox Machine on winningugly

by e-gus on Aug 3, 2010 9:38 AM CDT up reply actions  

I set up the game threads

Feel free to resume command of the headlines.

SSS has been able to get a lot of value out of him, but I imagine other sites look at his age and the some of the garbage he’s typing and think that he could be one terrible mistyped post from hanging them up.
-Sox Machine on winningugly

by e-gus on Aug 3, 2010 11:38 AM CDT up reply actions  

I think E Jax can keep his ERA around 4.00

/crosses fingers

nice piece colin.

SSS has been able to get a lot of value out of him, but I imagine other sites look at his age and the some of the garbage he’s typing and think that he could be one terrible mistyped post from hanging them up.
-Sox Machine on winningugly

by e-gus on Aug 3, 2010 9:38 AM CDT reply actions  

The White Sox will have to make a roster move in between games of today’s doubleheader in order to bring up expected Game 2 starter, Carlos Torres, from Triple-A Charlotte. That temporary odd man out figures to be left-handed reliever Erick Threets, with the White Sox not needing to go with 13 pitchers, although Threets is out of options.

But with Torres being unavailable for the next four games after his start, the White Sox basically will be down to 11 pitchers and need another arm. They also will be left with one southpaw, in Matt Thornton, so they could dip to Charlotte for a left-hander and send Torres back, as they did with Lucas Harrell after last Friday’s victory.

Randy Williams, who started the season with the White Sox, could come back to the South Siders. Don’t be surprised, though, if Chris Sale, the team’s top pick from the 2010 First-Year Player Draft and 13th selection overall, is promoted.

Sale has been dominant since being moved to Charlotte, fanning 15 over 6 1/3 innings. The White Sox believe he can help out of the bullpen this season, and with a spot open on the 40-man roster, Sale could start helping this week in Detroit.

http://scottmerkin.mlblogs.com/archives/2010/08/sale_soon_could_join_the_white.html

by larry on Aug 3, 2010 9:38 AM CDT reply actions  

i guess Merkin didnt hear the 'i dont want to not have comment.'

SSS has been able to get a lot of value out of him, but I imagine other sites look at his age and the some of the garbage he’s typing and think that he could be one terrible mistyped post from hanging them up.
-Sox Machine on winningugly

by e-gus on Aug 3, 2010 9:40 AM CDT up reply actions  

did i see that right?

15 k’s in 6 1/3 innings? thats absurd.

"It just occurred to me that the White Sox could win the division."
" That just makes me want to puke all over your head, sir."

by boyonthedock on Aug 3, 2010 12:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

Thanks for this

I still hate the deal. I hope Im wrong.

"it’s over, tdogg.

no. it’s not unlike me. when i make an unqualified statement, it means i’m sure i’m right" Larry

by Tdogg on Aug 3, 2010 9:40 AM CDT reply actions  

I obviously hated it as much as anyone

But while I question the White Sox front office’s ability to judge position players, I don’t really have much of a reason to question Coop. He saw Hudson, just like he saw Poreda, McCarthy and Richard. Obviously if he thought Hudson was going to be special, he wouldn’t have let him go, he seems to know what he’s doing.

If he think Edwin Jackson is the better option, I’ll assume he’s right until proven otherwise.

by Grinder in Training on Aug 3, 2010 9:45 AM CDT up reply actions  

I don't have a problem trading Hudson

I have a problem trading him for Edwin Jackson.

"it’s over, tdogg.

no. it’s not unlike me. when i make an unqualified statement, it means i’m sure i’m right" Larry

by Tdogg on Aug 3, 2010 9:52 AM CDT up reply actions  

Im certainly not a major league scout or anything

but I just don’t buy the he has a 5th starter ceiling junk. Numbers by him at AAA at his age bode for a decent major league career with greater potential. Again I hope Im wrong.

"it’s over, tdogg.

no. it’s not unlike me. when i make an unqualified statement, it means i’m sure i’m right" Larry

by Tdogg on Aug 3, 2010 10:06 AM CDT up reply actions  

To be fair, we traded him for a pretty good player.

The fact we then traded him for Marquez & goggles afterwards, makes it a pretty shitty trade obviously, but the original trade wasn’t bad. I’d be real happy if Swisher was on our team right now, I mean.. switch hitter, plays first and OF, can DH, OPS .928, 20 HRs, gets on base, for 6.5 million this year. Isn’t that exactly what this team needs? The fact he’s an obnoxious douche, doesn’t make him not good at baseball.

I surely don’t think trading Gio Gonzalez for that kind of production is a horrible trade.

Even if it was a bad trade though, it wasn’t relevant to my point, I even suggested myself that they seem to struggle judging the talent of position players, so the trade of a pitcher for a position player wouldn’t be a part of this discussion.

by Grinder in Training on Aug 3, 2010 10:09 AM CDT up reply actions  

+1

It’s taken years of practice to be such an asshole.
by Chiburb on Jun 1, 2010 10:35 AM PDT

by rhythm on Aug 3, 2010 12:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

and that richard is an okay pitcher.

the thing with KW appears to be that he doesn’t want to have #4 pitchers on his starting staff. i think the quote he gave a couple years ago about having a staff of 2s and 3s, or whatever it was, is true. the problem is, he doesn’t draft guys who are clear top of the rotation talents. and they seem hesitant – or at least too impatient – to develop pitchers at the major league level. 2007 was an interesting exception to this but (i) danks, who was in the rotation essentially the entire year, was a guy who had clear top of the rotation potential and (ii) it ended up being a lost season anyway – query what KW would have done with danks if the white sox had been contenders that season.

perhaps the white sox simply saw that danks, and to a lesser extent floyd, were going to be top of the rotation type guys. obviously the results support that conclusion. on the other hand, it may be that the white sox let them develop, too.

in any event, KW’s predilections are quite costly. he’s got a cadillac rotation. and it’s at a cadillac price.

by larry on Aug 3, 2010 10:13 AM CDT up reply actions   2 recs

cadillac

The problem is we were all ok with the stock rims and he put some spinners on there that may or may not spin.

SSS has been able to get a lot of value out of him, but I imagine other sites look at his age and the some of the garbage he’s typing and think that he could be one terrible mistyped post from hanging them up.
-Sox Machine on winningugly

by e-gus on Aug 3, 2010 10:14 AM CDT up reply actions  

they spinnin'!

Some people get so rich they lose all respect for humanity. That's how rich I want to be.

by MarketMaker on Aug 3, 2010 11:44 AM CDT up reply actions  

This

We have what we paid for. The possiblity exist that with a little patience ie not buying today and seeing the extra dealer dad wants us to see we get a cadillac at a discounted price.

"it’s over, tdogg.

no. it’s not unlike me. when i make an unqualified statement, it means i’m sure i’m right" Larry

by Tdogg on Aug 3, 2010 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions  

consider

what if the white sox kept richard and spent the $14.5M difference on other players.

by larry on Aug 3, 2010 10:21 AM CDT up reply actions  

That'd concern me more

If money was the cause of our bad decisions. Pierre, Teahen, Kotsay over Damon, Orlando Hudson & Thome, didn’t really happen because we were trying to be save money. I realize there’s a couple million dollars difference there total, but the fact we traded for Jackson, would lead me to believe we could have handled signing the better players.

AJ was going to still be the catcher, and everywhere else we have a pretty solid player (or thought they would be solid). Our bullpen, I guess we may have added a better second lefty.

The only place I see that money going is to resign Danks or on another pitcher.

by Grinder in Training on Aug 3, 2010 10:37 AM CDT up reply actions  

True that they could make better offseason roster decisions

But I’d still prefer Lots of resources + flawed decsion making process to Fewer resources + flawed decision making process

by joewho112 on Aug 3, 2010 10:42 AM CDT up reply actions  

i seem to recall money issues with structuring a deal with damon.

yes, the white sox aren’t the marlins. they’re also not the yankees. while there’s a pretty large pot of money out there for KW, it’s finite.

and pierre, teahen and kotsay arguably happened because the white sox trade their prospects – or simply don’t sign and/or develop many. that’s why they have to pay market rate for below average players.

by larry on Aug 3, 2010 10:42 AM CDT up reply actions  

if getting into the playoffs results in increased revenue for the team to spend next year

would it negate the money issues that result from the jackson trade?

This is like having Marshall Faulk on your fantasy football team in 2000 and screwing up the rest of your draft to finish 7th.

by onlysoxfaninbasel on Aug 3, 2010 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions  

Depends on how much money the team gets to keep

Sox got two home games out of the ALDS in 2008. A good chunk went to MLB, TBS, etc…

Theain is the guy I Just can’t stand! pierre is almost as bad,he dose get on base more. If Quntin gets any worse trade him. WE NEED HELP!

by 67WMAQ on Aug 3, 2010 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions  

yeah, but can't we forecast a likely increase in 2011 attendance resulting from a playoffs appearance?

This is like having Marshall Faulk on your fantasy football team in 2000 and screwing up the rest of your draft to finish 7th.

by onlysoxfaninbasel on Aug 3, 2010 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions  

blasphemy!!!

stone him!

"We saw death and I don't think we fear it anymore. Not unlike 2005, when we finally clinched and then we took off in the playoffs." Coop 7/29/10

by Ahillock on Aug 3, 2010 11:10 AM CDT up reply actions  

x

SSS has been able to get a lot of value out of him, but I imagine other sites look at his age and the some of the garbage he’s typing and think that he could be one terrible mistyped post from hanging them up.
-Sox Machine on winningugly

by e-gus on Aug 3, 2010 11:23 AM CDT up reply actions  

Or he builds value down the stretch

And some other team takes him off their hands.

Theain is the guy I Just can’t stand! pierre is almost as bad,he dose get on base more. If Quntin gets any worse trade him. WE NEED HELP!

by 67WMAQ on Aug 3, 2010 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions  

Maybe we could pry that Hudson kid out of Arizona

I’ve heard good things.

Reporter: I was wondering if at any point in my lifetime the Cubs weren't going to be run by a guy who didn't immediately remind me of failure, confusion, or imminent death

by Hazymania on Aug 3, 2010 3:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

Sabathia for his contract extension.

the next season he just has to hit 4 wins/200IP

Fireworks: Bang?

by colintj on Aug 3, 2010 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions  

but aren't you glad we didn't?

there are other players i would have rather had..

This is like having Marshall Faulk on your fantasy football team in 2000 and screwing up the rest of your draft to finish 7th.

by onlysoxfaninbasel on Aug 3, 2010 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions  

happens all the time :)

This is like having Marshall Faulk on your fantasy football team in 2000 and screwing up the rest of your draft to finish 7th.

by onlysoxfaninbasel on Aug 3, 2010 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions  

we could have had Adam Dunn

so there’s plenty to be said for Fortune stamping out our best laid plans.

Fireworks: Bang?

by colintj on Aug 3, 2010 11:23 AM CDT up reply actions  

Stop it, you're killing me!!

I almost had the bad taste from the Peavy trade out of my mouth and you go and post this. Bastard :)

It’s taken years of practice to be such an asshole.
by Chiburb on Jun 1, 2010 10:35 AM PDT

by rhythm on Aug 3, 2010 12:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

Good points, larry.

It wasn’t priced like a Caddy when Danksy/BHB got here, though. Peavy/Rios deals seemed to embolden him re: saying “eff austerity”.

Its sort of a chess match right now but some upgrades are still possible with very little cost except money.
by Tdogg on Jul 23, 2010 10:13 AM EDT

by winningugly on Aug 3, 2010 12:09 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

yeah, I dont like it either.

Its almost like they have to do some damage in the post-season this year to justify some of the bad deals the Sox are saddled with next season, including this one.

SSS has been able to get a lot of value out of him, but I imagine other sites look at his age and the some of the garbage he’s typing and think that he could be one terrible mistyped post from hanging them up.
-Sox Machine on winningugly

by e-gus on Aug 3, 2010 9:53 AM CDT up reply actions  

The main thing I don't don't like is

everything could go perfect with Jackson and they are still likely losers of the deal. How common is that?

"it’s over, tdogg.

no. it’s not unlike me. when i make an unqualified statement, it means i’m sure i’m right" Larry

by Tdogg on Aug 3, 2010 10:00 AM CDT up reply actions  

I liken it to BMac

They probably saw something they didn’t like with Hudson. But they sure seemed to pull the trigger awfully fast on this one, reeks of desperation.
 
Only way to justify this trade is to win the division this year. If the fall short it looks really bad.

"We are strong enough as we are and everything fits together in such a way that the only thing we were going to add would be something of an impact guy," KW

by ChicagoPete on Aug 3, 2010 10:12 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

We should be so lucky to have it turn out like the B-Mac trade.

Its sort of a chess match right now but some upgrades are still possible with very little cost except money.
by Tdogg on Jul 23, 2010 10:13 AM EDT

by winningugly on Aug 3, 2010 12:52 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

a bit too common lately.

Some people get so rich they lose all respect for humanity. That's how rich I want to be.

by MarketMaker on Aug 3, 2010 11:49 AM CDT up reply actions  

it's similar to Swish Deal 2

in that it’s highly likely to drain assets from the team. i hate the Swisher affair because we don’t get his 2-4 wins per season and nor do we get useful prospects. the Sox are just less able to win now. they spent, fucked up and now Kotsay is our DH. those things are directly related.

Fireworks: Bang?

by colintj on Aug 3, 2010 11:40 AM CDT up reply actions  

And then, of course, we sent Holmberg along for good (bad) measure.

It’s not like his value was zero.

Right Sox aficionado since '83.

by Kenny Saw on Aug 3, 2010 10:10 AM CDT reply actions  

I'm wondering

1. If the White Sox might make another pitcher available in the offseason
2. The White Sox are trying to buy low on Jackson, give him 12 games to shine, then sell high in the offseason
3. If Jackson can hit righties better than Kotsay

Everyone assumes we are married to Jackson through the 2011 season but Kenny’s a pimp and his players are his bitches, and he’ll get rid of him as fast as he got em.

by striker on Aug 3, 2010 10:11 AM CDT reply actions  

Woohooo baseball in 1.5hrs!

"We saw death and I don't think we fear it anymore. Not unlike 2005, when we finally clinched and then we took off in the playoffs." Coop 7/29/10

by Ahillock on Aug 3, 2010 10:32 AM CDT reply actions  

Thanks Colin

Great read even though it didn’t make me feel any better about acquiring Jackson for Hudson. Neither did reading about Hudson’s performance for Arizona on the Morning Juice. This trade definitely stirs the bile. If Coop has to turn Jackson into a Sabathia type pitcher for it to be a good trade, that’s simply a bad trade.

"You’re a cunt, but i’ve got ethics." - U-God

by justjc on Aug 3, 2010 10:50 AM CDT reply actions  

nice writeup,

which confirms that it was a bad trade imo. and i suspect even more now that kenny has to spin this doc cooper angle because he was reckless in assuming that washington would trade dunn for jackson

This is like having Marshall Faulk on your fantasy football team in 2000 and screwing up the rest of your draft to finish 7th.

by onlysoxfaninbasel on Aug 3, 2010 10:56 AM CDT reply actions  

yeah, i have to say this leaves me a little conspiratorially minded

i haven’t paid enough attention to the papers in past moves, but they picked up the meme real quick. and i’m pretty sure the Sox beat writers are stenographic types. either way, it’s not like Coop has a perfect track record. the whole thing is dubious.

Fireworks: Bang?

by colintj on Aug 3, 2010 11:20 AM CDT up reply actions  

The Sox have the same numbers as we do

That got burned plain and simple by Rizzo. No way they make this deal unless they felt Dunn was going to be added to the team. I don’t think KW was quite reckless but it ultimately does fall on him. I like the spin afterwards making Rizzo out to be a welcher. Live and learn.

"it’s over, tdogg.

no. it’s not unlike me. when i make an unqualified statement, it means i’m sure i’m right" Larry

by Tdogg on Aug 3, 2010 11:27 AM CDT up reply actions  

the really weird bit

is that there’s no way i’d prefer having Dunn. that only necessitated more moves. snake eats itself, etc.

Fireworks: Bang?

by colintj on Aug 3, 2010 11:30 AM CDT up reply actions  

yeah same here

I didnt want to move hudson for dunn.
moving him to get a piece of the dunn puzzle is just as bad.

SSS has been able to get a lot of value out of him, but I imagine other sites look at his age and the some of the garbage he’s typing and think that he could be one terrible mistyped post from hanging them up.
-Sox Machine on winningugly

by e-gus on Aug 3, 2010 11:39 AM CDT up reply actions  

it's worse.

freddy’s still fairly likely to implode, which is (hopefully) why they went into the season with Hudson in AAA in the first place. so they’d have no recourse aside from a fairly risky 4 man rotation or worse. and on top of that, Dunn absolutely can’t be worth Dan Hudson in the long run like perhaps Jackson could be. a Hudson that turns out shitty is still better than Dunn.

Fireworks: Bang?

by colintj on Aug 3, 2010 11:45 AM CDT up reply actions  

hey fangraphs

fuck you too

This is like having Marshall Faulk on your fantasy football team in 2000 and screwing up the rest of your draft to finish 7th.

by onlysoxfaninbasel on Aug 3, 2010 11:00 AM CDT reply actions  

You know who else is good?

John F’ing Danks.

Pavano? Here’s Gavin Floyd.

Theain is the guy I Just can’t stand! pierre is almost as bad,he dose get on base more. If Quntin gets any worse trade him. WE NEED HELP!

by 67WMAQ on Aug 3, 2010 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions  

yeah well

With Morneau coming back they are sitting pretty on offense while we are continuing our retarded DH ride. Top that with Capps acquisition and we didn’t do nearly enough to keep up “body” wise.

I know this is blasphemy to utter such words, but I feel like Twins are heading towards October way more than we are. I am enjoying our first place and the way the team plays but not comfortable with the whole situation at all…

Taking a walk in a donky park listening to the wind of change

by LT_sox_fan on Aug 3, 2010 11:26 AM CDT up reply actions  

agreed

This is like having Marshall Faulk on your fantasy football team in 2000 and screwing up the rest of your draft to finish 7th.

by onlysoxfaninbasel on Aug 3, 2010 12:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm convinced these guys don't write about the current baseball season

but they’re describing their mastubatory fantasies, where the Twins and Cardinals meet in the Series, and everybody gets free candy.

Oh, and the White Sox are eternally humilated by those crafty Twins, and Mariners and another other cuddly team.

by TasteeFreeze on Aug 3, 2010 3:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

Ahh yes, the dreaded faux-injury. Per Gonzo:
Threets on DL (turf toe), Torres activated, look for Chris Sale to join the team soon.

"I'll worry about the shit rooster they put together because they have no money"
- joewho112

by RWShow on Aug 3, 2010 11:01 AM CDT reply actions  

Crafty like a fox, that Kenny Williams is!

"I'll worry about the shit rooster they put together because they have no money"
- joewho112

by RWShow on Aug 3, 2010 11:02 AM CDT up reply actions  

haha

i was hoping for a Kotsay on DL (groin injury)

This is like having Marshall Faulk on your fantasy football team in 2000 and screwing up the rest of your draft to finish 7th.

by onlysoxfaninbasel on Aug 3, 2010 11:03 AM CDT up reply actions  

back up the toe truck

His name is Rios and he dances on the sand

by Nordhagen on Aug 3, 2010 11:05 AM CDT up reply actions  

Question for… well, larry or Jim, I suppose - Is there any real policing of roster manipulation?

Totally OT, of course.

"I'll worry about the shit rooster they put together because they have no money"
- joewho112

by RWShow on Aug 3, 2010 11:08 AM CDT up reply actions  

sure.

it was when perez was put on the DL earlier this year that an unnamed team requested that MLB look at his medical records regarding his knee injury.

of course, most, if not all, players at this point in the season have a nagging injury that could be used to put a player on the DL. threets probably does have turf toe. doesn’t mean it’s actually affecting his ability to play to any great extent.

by larry on Aug 3, 2010 11:27 AM CDT up reply actions  

every sport does it.

nba’s use of it is hilarious sometimes.

"it’s over, tdogg.

no. it’s not unlike me. when i make an unqualified statement, it means i’m sure i’m right" Larry

by Tdogg on Aug 3, 2010 11:28 AM CDT up reply actions  

turf toe ftw

"We saw death and I don't think we fear it anymore. Not unlike 2005, when we finally clinched and then we took off in the playoffs." Coop 7/29/10

by Ahillock on Aug 3, 2010 11:11 AM CDT up reply actions  

haha this is great...

i actually dont mind threets hes been pretty good so far…throws hard unlike
RAAAAAAAAAAAAANDY….but sale with 15ks in 6 1/3…damn

by ndsoxfan on Aug 3, 2010 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions  

I predicted Kotsay, but this works too.

"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else."
Earl Weaver

by Chiburb on Aug 3, 2010 11:29 AM CDT up reply actions  

Hudson

Well, it looked that the White Sox were confident in him throwing his slider with any consistency. Couple that with the fact that he seemed to have trouble getting his fastball over the plate consistency.

It isn’t like Edwin Jackson is flawless, but clearly the coaching staff feel he’s more valuable than Hudson. I’m interested to see if he’s fixed and how quickly it will occur.

by shaftr on Aug 3, 2010 11:40 AM CDT reply actions  

you got all that from 3 starts?

"it’s over, tdogg.

no. it’s not unlike me. when i make an unqualified statement, it means i’m sure i’m right" Larry

by Tdogg on Aug 3, 2010 11:43 AM CDT up reply actions  

he has a great eye

"We saw death and I don't think we fear it anymore. Not unlike 2005, when we finally clinched and then we took off in the playoffs." Coop 7/29/10

by Ahillock on Aug 3, 2010 11:45 AM CDT up reply actions  

that and other things

I’m just saying that’s what we saw in three starts. Since he got traded for Edwin Jackson, I’m guessing there was something more to it than just small sample size.

by shaftr on Aug 3, 2010 11:48 AM CDT up reply actions  

hopefully the Sox were watching more than three starts

even if shaftr didn’t see anything himself, it’s still best guess until we know for sure the Sox got burned by Rizzo. right now the bag is just on fire. we don’t know that there’s shit in it.

Fireworks: Bang?

by colintj on Aug 3, 2010 11:49 AM CDT up reply actions  

i'm gonna step on it. i doubt there's shit in there this time.

Some people get so rich they lose all respect for humanity. That's how rich I want to be.

by MarketMaker on Aug 3, 2010 11:54 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

thanks

Looking at Hudson’s latest start against the Mets. He only threw 4 sliders (3 for strikes). He threw 25 change-ups (17 for strikes – 3 were swinging) and 80 fastballs (50 for strikes – 5 were swinging).

by shaftr on Aug 3, 2010 11:55 AM CDT up reply actions  

i watched some of the start

the difference was throwing strikes. if he can spot both pitches regularly, he’ll be alright. when he can’t, it’ll be ugly.

Fireworks: Bang?

by colintj on Aug 3, 2010 12:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

Fantastic read colintj.

Thanks.

"We can't do it easy. But we may as well do it high." -The Cheat

by South Side Expat on Aug 3, 2010 11:42 AM CDT reply actions  

Off Topic: Is Threets out for the season?

I just found this on the SB Nation injury report:

60 Day DL / Out for the season
Player: Erick Threets
Injury Type: other-excused I
njury Date: 07/31/2010

"Fuck fangraphs and your fancy designer stats can go pound some hard sand"- Billyok

by DrEmilioLizardo on Aug 3, 2010 11:46 AM CDT reply actions  

Took me a while to type... I see already discussed...

whoosh.

"Fuck fangraphs and your fancy designer stats can go pound some hard sand"- Billyok

by DrEmilioLizardo on Aug 3, 2010 11:47 AM CDT up reply actions  

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