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Around SBN: The Gift Of The 2003 Tigers

Bizarro World (An August White Sox Review)

From Wiki:

In the Bizarro world of "Htrae" ("Earth" spelled backwards), society is ruled by the Bizarro Code which states "Us do opposite of all Earthly things! Us hate beauty! Us love ugliness! Is big crime to make anything perfect on Bizarro World!"

Try this one on for size. The White Sox led the majors  AL in runs for the month of August. Like the sound of that? I do. Haven't heard that in awhile.  Normally such info would cause even Mayor Daley to run through the streets of Chicago naked but not today because in Bizarro world you can't have one odd reality without another. So instead of teaming that offense with the kick ass pitching we'd grown to love. Bizarro demands a slide from the starters and an implosion by a very good bullpen. Bizarro demands a team winning 1 run games to go 2-9 in them including 7 straight. That's how you end a month with + 20 run differential but a below .500 record. SSS aint it a bitch? (thanks Colin)

Star-divide

The Sox came into the month clinging to a .5 game lead of the charging Twins. The month started out fine by winning 3 of 4 in Detroit. Hurray. A reeling Tigers team was left for dead and the Sox were headed to Baltimore.

We now take an intermission for a rant.....

DH - This has become an especially cranky topic for me. No not because I'm late to get on the bus but because there are still folks out there defending or poo pooing the Jim Thome issue. Recently I got into a debate with Sox host Chris Rongey and my blood begin to boil by the end of the conversation. Highlights from Rongey:

In reference to the Sox early offensive struggles.
"It was not a colossal mistake to not sign Thome because what's the difference between 6 automatic outs vs 7?" (hmmm maybe a win or two)

"Look if the Sox had Jim Thome they would be in the exact same spot as today." (oh boy)

"You don't sign a player to keep him from your rival." (okay how about just because he's a good cheap player?)

"People want to harp on Thome but the fact is this team had 2 of its worst years while he was on the team." (and we're done.)

I don't mean to pick on Chris. He seems like a nice enough guy. But a large part of this thinking is just plain stupid and that's even if you didn't want him back. To not acknowledge the impact of Thome for the Twins and missing from the Sox early this season is about as mathematically challenged as I care to insult someone. Jim at Sox Machine addressed this a lot more elegantly than I ever could and he has a blog that wanted Thome "before" the season.

Anyway I hear the Sox finally addressed their DH problem......

Back to Bizarro world. 

The offense disappeared in Baltimore and in a deja vu story repeated more than a few times they would either not score enough (8 times 2 runs or less) or blow a late inning lead. Linebrink aka human torch, would end up with the same number of wins as starters Danks and Garcia, one. When the smoke cleared the lead was now a 4 game deficit and honestly we should be thankful its just that.

Hey doesn't Bizarro World demand some late season come back or something?

RS 630

RA 555

72-60

2009 (64-69 603 RS/615 RA)

As you can see last year's team was in full swoon mode and 7 games out behind 2 teams. By the way, Minnesota was 3.5 out at this time last year (just saying....). At this point odds are not in their favor. BP's PECOTA and ELO odds give the White Sox roughly an 11% chance. It will probably go up a bit when Manny is factored in but not much. This town needs some help.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Offensive

YTD

.271/.334/.430  wOBA .335/ 49 wRAA (4th in AL)

August

.298/.354/.460 wOBA .354 29 wRAA (1st in AL)

Wow talk about a kick. The second consecutive great month has moved the overall numbers to an above average offense. No I didn't stutter. The White Sox have scored some runs though they are still prone to the occasional complete shut down. 8 times scoring 2 runs or less. Perhaps that is nitpicking, but I just want to see the consistency. 

1B- Konerko  .320/.400/.583 wOBA .417 What a fantastic year. Hard not to want him back. Seems not long ago we were arguing whether he'd ever have a 900 ops year again and his value vs Casey Kotchman. Now he's a legit MVP candidate.

2B- Beckham .257/.320/.391 wOBA .311 Had the hand scare. Whew. But continued his torrid 2nd half .965 OPS since the break.

SS- Alexei .285/.313/.435 wOBA .321 August was a blah month but solid. Continues march to 4 WAR.

3B- Omar .285/..354/.337 wOBA .312 Regression hit some but actually improved his OBP. Hey Dayan walks are nice!

LF- Pierre ..284/.352/.326 wOBA.320 Would you believe Juan OPSed .850 in August?

CF- Rios. .293/.341/.473 wOBA .353 Rios continued his slow slide until a late month surge. Lets hope he's back,

RF- Q! .237/.333/.478 wOBA .351 The H/A splits are worrisome. In fact when is the last time I didn't use worry and Q in the same line?

C- AJ ..258/.291/.376 wOBA .290 Improved like everyone else but wow what a bad offensive year. Still would like to see Castro get a few more bats.

DH/1B- Kotsay .237/.311/.385 wOBA .303 Decent line in August. Too little too late. At least he said the right things when Manny appeared and Mark is not a bad bench player.

Relevant Bench
Jones- .214/.322/.471 wOBA .350, Teabag .270/.342/.578 wOBA .326

Castro- .322/378/.578 wOBA .415 Again this is a solid bench. 3 batters with an OPS around or above .800 is pretty good.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Pitching

YTD

3.98 ERA (down to 7th in AL), 3.87 FIP (2nd), 4.12 xFIP (2nd)

k/9 7.13 (down to 7th)

bb/9 3.06(4th)

hr/9 0.87 (1st)

August

4.23 ERA (10th), 4.50 FIP (10th), 4.15 xFIP (6th)

Well so much for anti HR. The staff put up a league worst 1.32 hr/9. Ouch. Even Jackson in his initial dominance, gave up runs via the long ball when he felt the need to allow a run to cross the plate.

Starting Staff

              ERA      FIP      K/9    BB/9
Danks     3.40     3.33     6.99    2.95
Floyd     3.54     3.08     7.34    2.62

Buehrle   4.15     3.97    4.08    2.04

Garcia    4.73     4.52     5.38    2.69

Jackson  1.47    2.37    11.05   1.96




Danks- Worst month of the year including allowing 6 dingers.

Floyd- Just last month was touting outside shot at a 6 WAR season. Those days are gone.

Buehrle- Of the initial starters had the best month. Jim pointed to Buerhle's off season plan maybe paying dividends? Was the main victim of the bullpen during the month.

Garcia- Was bad but did have a redeeming start towards the end of the month vs the Yankees

Peavy- Latest update so far so good. Fingers crossed.

Jackson- I'm still not a fan of the trade but Jackson's impersonation of one of the best pitchers in baseball can change a mind in a hurry. A strong Sept can help rotation excitement for 2011 in a way that Peavy did.

Starting pitching was not very good this month. Not epic bad but they picked a bad time for regression to the mean for HR rates.

The Big Three

                   ERA    FIP      K/9     BB/9     LOB%
Jenks        4.65    2.67    10.55   3.22    64.9%
Thornton   2.66   2.30    12.17   2.85    80.3%
Putz           2.68    2.64    10.53   2.11     76.7%

As we all know the main bullpen failed big time in August. Jenks seemed to rebound towards the end of the month before blowing a game in Cleveland. Thornton and Putz would end up on the DL with both expected back in early Sept. In a tight pennant race some of these winnable lost games are now very much highlighted. I get it. I really do, but its very easy to gloss over how good the bullpen has been and the "work" it did throughout much of the season helping the comeback in the first place. Remember the Sox .700 run of baseball for a third of the season was fueled by pitching, starters AND relievers. There is no doubt they have to be better. Thornton and Putz gave up a combined 5 HRs (never good in what are probably high lev situations) but chances are this slump is just that a slump.

The Rest

Santos- ERA 2.30/FIP 3.45 (A little tired and first full season? .349 BABIP)

Pena- ERA 5.59. /FIP 5.34

Linebrink- ERA 4.47/FIP 5.05 

Sale- ERA 0.90/FIP 2.00 I love me some Chris Sale. 10 IP 16K. Yes he does have 7 walks but you really couldn't ask for a better start from a pitcher in college a few months ago. The Sox will need him down the stretch especially if their are injury concerns.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Defense

All these numbers are subject to classic SSS and wild swings blah blah blah....

Defensive Efficiency is now .688 (11th in the AL). Again you can't tell anything from UZR for a predictive nature but there is value in knowing the results.

Team UZR is -18.8 (11th)

Team UZR/150 -3.3 (11th)

Alexei (12.6) and Pierre (9.1) continue their stand-out years. Rios rebounded in the small sample (4.7), Quentin (-11.7) and Konerko (-9.9) remain rangeless.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Team Base Running

Per BP the team’s Equivalent Base Running  Runs (EqBrr)

Results

The White Sox rank 11th in baseball with a total score of -7.1

Ughh!! Why am I screaming? Because of the aggregate total of -7.1, -9.30 is made up of the stolen base component. That's 3rd worse in baseball.

126 stolen bases out of 191 attempts for a 65% conversion rate. For the month of August try 27 out 44 for a 61% rate. This is beyond ridiculous. With the improved offense the Sox are simply costing themselves too many darn runs. Can someone kidnap Ozzie and explain this principle. There have been recent close games where the Sox have sacrificed and had a runner thrown out stealing in the same inning. How do you give up 2 outs in a tight game during a pennant race?!

Pierre remains a stand out with a 7.2 score, 4th in baseball and only a hair behind Carl Crawford.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

At the end of last month I asked a few questions.

Morneau return? Nope---- Waiver Trade? Mannyhood--- Teabag? Has seemed to fit in---- Jackson turnaround? And then some--- Capps to the bullpen? added Fuentes but still late inning problems--- 3 more home games directly vs Twins? didn't matter they took 2 of 3 here.

In the AL central, where late season drama seems required the 3 game set the teams play in mid Sept probably will still mean something. A sweep will surely be needed but who knows crazier things have happened.

I wanted a competitive team this season. Well I have one. Cheat wrote the 14-15 August record was frustrating and maybe not that much different than the team's true talent. I don't know. I feel like this team should and can achieve greater heights and now I want more. Or in Bizarro world should I root for them to suck in Sept?

SouthSideSox is a community driven site. As such, users are able to express their thoughts and opinions in a FanPost, such as this one, which represents the views of this particular fan, but not necessarily the entire community or SouthSideSox editors.

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Angels, Twins and White Sox tell sabermetrics to go screw itself

Link

Ramirez’s actual answer: "That’s a stupid question. I’m here to play baseball and that has nothing to do with playing baseball."

Cora’s translation: "I’m just worried about playing baseball. I’m not worried about hair or nothing."

by Tdogg on Sep 3, 2010 10:12 AM CDT reply actions  

damn, would love to see the full article or at least snippet on the sox..

"I never say one bad thing about those stupid fucking Cubs fans. Not a single word about those mother-shitting pieces of fuck"

by onlysoxfaninbasel on Sep 3, 2010 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions  

oh and nice write up for august, gather it was painful to write too

"I never say one bad thing about those stupid fucking Cubs fans. Not a single word about those mother-shitting pieces of fuck"

by onlysoxfaninbasel on Sep 3, 2010 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions  

It was

And with work and “dating” :-) my time is limited.

As far as the article, the White Sox and Angels were middle of the road for saber use. The Twins were in the bottom 3rd. Comparing their use vs projections yielded the teams outperforming PECOTA the 1st, 2nd and 4th greatest.

Ramirez’s actual answer: "That’s a stupid question. I’m here to play baseball and that has nothing to do with playing baseball."

Cora’s translation: "I’m just worried about playing baseball. I’m not worried about hair or nothing."

by Tdogg on Sep 3, 2010 10:34 AM CDT up reply actions  

thanks..

and good for you man, nice to see that you’re finally spending sometime out of the basement :p

"I never say one bad thing about those stupid fucking Cubs fans. Not a single word about those mother-shitting pieces of fuck"

by onlysoxfaninbasel on Sep 3, 2010 10:36 AM CDT up reply actions  

thanks.

well done.

i am a bark for buffeting. i am a hound for thornypaws. i am a doe for swiftness. i am a tree for wind-siege. i am a windmill. i am a hole in a wall.

by BuehrleMan on Sep 3, 2010 10:19 AM CDT reply actions  

Was that at the tail end of White Sox Weekly last Saturday?

You fought the good fight…but the host had the ultimate trump card.

“I’m running out of time.”

Theain is the guy I Just can’t stand! pierre is almost as bad,he dose get on base more. If Quntin gets any worse trade him. WE NEED HELP!

by 67WMAQ on Sep 3, 2010 10:27 AM CDT reply actions  

lol you know I think it was

He kept cutting me off and wouldn’t let me answer his questions. I don’t listen often so I was just shocked at things that came out of his mouth.

Ramirez’s actual answer: "That’s a stupid question. I’m here to play baseball and that has nothing to do with playing baseball."

Cora’s translation: "I’m just worried about playing baseball. I’m not worried about hair or nothing."

by Tdogg on Sep 3, 2010 10:30 AM CDT up reply actions  

Listened while trudging along the Dan Ryan

There is a school of thought (reinforced by August’s offensive numbers) that pitching is the be-all-end-all.

I say – why not make a good thing even better. Plus – if PK wasn’t having the best year of this career…the Sox are 6 or 7 games behind the Twins.

Theain is the guy I Just can’t stand! pierre is almost as bad,he dose get on base more. If Quntin gets any worse trade him. WE NEED HELP!

by 67WMAQ on Sep 3, 2010 10:36 AM CDT up reply actions  

Kudos

On calling. Ringer bitches about having stupid callers, but then when he gets a smart one with salient points and arguments, he gets pissy. I’m not a fan of his.

Very nice write up.

"Rather be stupid and win than smart and lose."

-RWShow

by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Sep 3, 2010 11:07 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

*Rongey

God damn, autocorrect on iPhone’s a bitch.

"Rather be stupid and win than smart and lose."

-RWShow

by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Sep 3, 2010 11:09 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

Well, as an employee of the flagship station, he walks a fine line if he wants to keep his job.

He can’t exactly say "Tdogg, you’re right. Kenny blew it. What part of the “H” in “DH” don’t the Sox understand"?

Which is actually a good reason to not listen or call in.

"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else."
Earl Weaver

by Chiburb on Sep 3, 2010 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions  

He's firmly in the "it's the pitching" camp.

Plus – if you had to deal with the sheer amount of idiots who call into any baseball postgame show, it’s easy to believe that are listeners are complete morons.

Theain is the guy I Just can’t stand! pierre is almost as bad,he dose get on base more. If Quntin gets any worse trade him. WE NEED HELP!

by 67WMAQ on Sep 3, 2010 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions  

I can't imagine why the audience would be completely moronic

when they listen to shows hosted by guys who don’t understand why not signing a competent player to play a starting position matters.

by Gentleman Jim on Sep 3, 2010 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions  

I like Rongey

Never met him. But he’s a good host, who has to talk a lot of drunk guys off the ledge.

There is a group of smart people who say the offense is good enough without Thome, and that his renaissance wasn’t in the cards when he was signed by the Twins in January.

I don’t agree with this. But, some smart people have come to this conclusion.

Theain is the guy I Just can’t stand! pierre is almost as bad,he dose get on base more. If Quntin gets any worse trade him. WE NEED HELP!

by 67WMAQ on Sep 3, 2010 11:22 AM CDT up reply actions  

hes got a pretty rough job after losses.

like you said, ‘the sheer number of idiots who call in’.

I was messing with him when the did a post game show from the cell.
i went up for a chat during a commercial break, and i was pretty well lubricated on jim beam. the fear in his eyes was hilarious, worried that the drunk guy(me) wouldn’t go away before they went on air. I enjoyed that and loitered up there until the very end of the break to make em sweat a bit.

MannyTheTorpedoes: the dotcher place me on wavers
/waves at passing car

by e-gus on Sep 3, 2010 11:26 AM CDT up reply actions  

And that's the problem

Good enough for what? The offense has reached heights I did not expect. That still doesn’t excuse a glaring hole that can be filled with just money. The thing that really rubbed me the wrong way was his implication that adding just 1 batter doesn’t make a difference. That’s silly as hell.

He mumbled something about Thome being worth what .5 win a month, big deal. Umm yeah it is a big deal .5 win a month for 4 is 2 wins.

He would have done better saying what’s done is done let’s move on.

Ramirez’s actual answer: "That’s a stupid question. I’m here to play baseball and that has nothing to do with playing baseball."

Cora’s translation: "I’m just worried about playing baseball. I’m not worried about hair or nothing."

by Tdogg on Sep 3, 2010 11:35 AM CDT up reply actions  

Wait is he employed by

The station or the Sox? I honestly don’t know. And denying Thome would help is just beyond stupid. I believe it was Larry or u-god who said that it’s not just about having Thome, it’s about the twins not having him. To deny that, wherever you place blame on this team, is without any kind of logic.

"Rather be stupid and win than smart and lose."

-RWShow

by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Sep 3, 2010 11:18 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

Everyone says that

but it’s a lot different if the Sox had signed somebody as a competent DH. If they had signed any of the other guys who were out there, Huff or Guerrero or even something stupid like Sheffield, it would have shown they were trying to fill the hole and just didn’t think Thome could do it anymore. Thome didn’t jump to the Twins, they weren’t even suitors for him at the beginning, but he just hung around so long at such a cheap price that the Twins realized it would be stupid not to store him on their bench.

Would it have been a mistake to get any of those other guys instead of Thome? Yes, I think so, even though Huff and Guerrero have had great seasons that couldn’t have been anticipated. However, it wouldn’t have been the type of mistake that gets repeated throughout every thread, justifiably so. It would have been a player analysis mistake, not a bizarre philosophical error.

by Gentleman Jim on Sep 3, 2010 11:22 AM CDT up reply actions  

I agree with the philosophy

Which is why I wanted Vlad or Dunn in the first place. The rotating DH idea actually works, given competent players.

"Rather be stupid and win than smart and lose."

-RWShow

by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Sep 3, 2010 11:26 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

and the sox brass showed us it came down to thome or raaaandy

on the club, which is baffling.

MannyTheTorpedoes: the dotcher place me on wavers
/waves at passing car

by e-gus on Sep 3, 2010 11:27 AM CDT up reply actions  

But

By the same token, Thome could have fit intonthw rotating DH philosophy too. You could have given him the same role the Twins did, and then used….idk, Jones or someone on the other days. His preference was to stay.

I don’t know though if you can pick one reason as being more important as to why the Sox are where they are. It’s all about equal, the awful start, the non-DH, the spotty (overall) defense, the terribly timed bp rough start, etc. One single move wouldn’t have fixed it all, bit one different move would have made a difference. Just not sure where or how (shrugs).

"Rather be stupid and win than smart and lose."

-RWShow

by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Sep 3, 2010 11:32 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

re: Just not sure where or how (shrugs).

this team is 13 games over .500

MannyTheTorpedoes: the dotcher place me on wavers
/waves at passing car

by e-gus on Sep 3, 2010 11:38 AM CDT up reply actions  

Well I meant that

The team’s likelihood of making playoffs would be increased, but I didn’t know by how much. Sorry.

"Rather be stupid and win than smart and lose."

-RWShow

by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Sep 3, 2010 11:46 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

well what i meant

is despite all those factors, how in the hell are they 13 games over .500?

MannyTheTorpedoes: the dotcher place me on wavers
/waves at passing car

by e-gus on Sep 3, 2010 11:49 AM CDT up reply actions  

The wonderous, awe-inspiring, completely maddening

Game that is baseball, lol. We’re all caught in a bad romance.

"Rather be stupid and win than smart and lose."

-RWShow

by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Sep 3, 2010 11:54 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

Pythag record

is 15 games over

Ramirez’s actual answer: "That’s a stupid question. I’m here to play baseball and that has nothing to do with playing baseball."

Cora’s translation: "I’m just worried about playing baseball. I’m not worried about hair or nothing."

by Tdogg on Sep 3, 2010 1:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

kudos, tdogg

Have a tbone

"Fuck fangraphs and your fancy designer stats can go pound some hard sand"- Billyok

by DrEmilioLizardo on Sep 3, 2010 10:28 AM CDT via mobile reply actions  

Good work, Dogg.

I guess one man's pain in the ass is another’s perfect fit.
by mick10 on Sep 1, 2010 2:39 PM EDT

by winningugly on Sep 3, 2010 10:33 AM CDT reply actions  

Htrae is the anagram for "e-hate".

Of course, you militant mofo.

I guess one man's pain in the ass is another’s perfect fit.
by mick10 on Sep 1, 2010 2:39 PM EDT

by winningugly on Sep 3, 2010 10:37 AM CDT reply actions  

this i like.

approved. thumbs up.

Fireworks: Bang?

by colintj on Sep 3, 2010 11:15 AM CDT up reply actions  

e-hater

a pahtty-maathed Pahrt Slot Cahnt of a wahtress

by homesickalien on Sep 3, 2010 12:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

'Too Wordy' ranking has a new leader

1. TDogg
2. HSA

MannyTheTorpedoes: the dotcher place me on wavers
/waves at passing car

by e-gus on Sep 3, 2010 10:43 AM CDT reply actions  

Sorry chief

I suppose I could just give you the numbers.

Ramirez’s actual answer: "That’s a stupid question. I’m here to play baseball and that has nothing to do with playing baseball."

Cora’s translation: "I’m just worried about playing baseball. I’m not worried about hair or nothing."

by Tdogg on Sep 3, 2010 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions  

don't listen to him t-dogg!

great work as usual. and you are nowhere near as wordy as either of those paid-by-the-word sisters

"Sportsmanship is just loser talk for losing."

by boyonthedock on Sep 3, 2010 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah Tdogg,

Don’t listen to the naysayers!

OzzieOzzieOzzie: What's the first thing you're gonna do when you get there?
MannyTheTorpedoes: play rly good then stop, hate u an take ur monies

by ScottyPods Ver2.0 on Sep 3, 2010 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions  

was just messing around

I enjoy these a lot.

first that I get all the numbers in one location, and second I like to see how you interpret them compared to my take on them.

dont change a thing.

MannyTheTorpedoes: the dotcher place me on wavers
/waves at passing car

by e-gus on Sep 3, 2010 11:04 AM CDT up reply actions  

"don't go changing, trying to please e-"

"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else."
Earl Weaver

by Chiburb on Sep 3, 2010 11:15 AM CDT up reply actions  

You've never let him down before...

Or so I hear.

OzzieOzzieOzzie: What's the first thing you're gonna do when you get there?
MannyTheTorpedoes: play rly good then stop, hate u an take ur monies

by ScottyPods Ver2.0 on Sep 3, 2010 11:22 AM CDT up reply actions  

In your year-end SSS recap, I would love to see a long-winded power ranking.

"Sarcastic little bitch. I’m gonna marry her just to make her miserable." - South Side Expat

by RWShow on Sep 3, 2010 1:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

1. HSA

193,303,310 pierzynski rules

DANIEL HUDSON SUCKS. HOWS THAT GUN BAN WORKING FOR YOU MAYOR DALLY

by Ozzie Montana on Sep 3, 2010 1:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

yes

"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else."
Earl Weaver

by Chiburb on Sep 3, 2010 1:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yup.

"Before you can say 'sounds of the game,' Mark Kotsay is out." -Chris Rose

by Teahenny Penny on Sep 3, 2010 2:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

Thanks, dogg.

"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else."
Earl Weaver

by Chiburb on Sep 3, 2010 10:50 AM CDT reply actions  

Thanks Tigers!

Nice to see the Twins get an extra-inning screw job for a change, while using starting pitching in relief.

Me watching the highlights on MLBN this morning: “Ha, ha, ha, ha!”

Let’s go Rangers!

"Stretch with the team. Be there for the National Anthem." - Ozzie Guillen's only two rules for Manny

by tailgater on Sep 3, 2010 11:02 AM CDT reply actions  

Here's to all

The injuries and bad pitching finally catching up with teh twaisn. Cheers!

"Rather be stupid and win than smart and lose."

-RWShow

by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Sep 3, 2010 11:08 AM CDT via mobile reply actions  

i thought april was the cruelest month

When I was a kid, I didn't want to be a doctor or a fireman. I wanted to be Super Mario. It's the most literal pipe dream I've ever had.

by U-God on Sep 3, 2010 12:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

what a frustrating month!

nice writeup as usual, Tdogg.

Hope he’s not writing the 2011 White Sox Anal too. -Sox Machine

by Jack M on Sep 3, 2010 11:18 AM CDT reply actions  

2 days too late

but there are no deadlines in bizarro world i guess…nonetheless thanx alot for the recap t, youtheman…

heres to the sox sucking in the freeworld that was august.

"Statistics are about as interesting as first base coaches" Jim Bouton

by Grinder Rule #42 on Sep 3, 2010 11:22 AM CDT reply actions  

Assuming tonight is cancelled, double header tomorrow or Sunday?

"We saw death and I don't think we fear it anymore. Not unlike 2005, when we finally clinched and then we took off in the playoffs." Coop 7/29/10

by Ahillock on Sep 3, 2010 11:27 AM CDT reply actions  

Prolly saved to the end of the season,

Played if only it impacted the playoffs.

OzzieOzzieOzzie: What's the first thing you're gonna do when you get there?
MannyTheTorpedoes: play rly good then stop, hate u an take ur monies

by ScottyPods Ver2.0 on Sep 3, 2010 11:28 AM CDT up reply actions  

So could end up being another game 162 and 163 scenerio.

I think it is 100% sure the game is cancelled tonight. Expected winds of 50-70mph in Boston with a shit load of rain.

"We saw death and I don't think we fear it anymore. Not unlike 2005, when we finally clinched and then we took off in the playoffs." Coop 7/29/10

by Ahillock on Sep 3, 2010 11:30 AM CDT up reply actions  

Oh. Okay then that.

I dunno the system.

OzzieOzzieOzzie: What's the first thing you're gonna do when you get there?
MannyTheTorpedoes: play rly good then stop, hate u an take ur monies

by ScottyPods Ver2.0 on Sep 3, 2010 11:32 AM CDT up reply actions  

i don't think you need to understand a system.

if they don’t play a game, they kind of have to give the money back to people who bought tickets for that game. and they wouldn’t get any of the other revenue associated with having a game.

by larry on Sep 3, 2010 11:33 AM CDT up reply actions  

Right I get that,

I just didn’t know it was a decision the Red Sox made.

OzzieOzzieOzzie: What's the first thing you're gonna do when you get there?
MannyTheTorpedoes: play rly good then stop, hate u an take ur monies

by ScottyPods Ver2.0 on Sep 3, 2010 11:57 AM CDT up reply actions  

larry makes that decision

"We saw death and I don't think we fear it anymore. Not unlike 2005, when we finally clinched and then we took off in the playoffs." Coop 7/29/10

by Ahillock on Sep 3, 2010 11:58 AM CDT up reply actions  

yeah i just looked at the forecast too

70% chance at game time, 90% later in the evening.

it looks like its about to start raining there now.

two days in a row without sox baseball is too many.
I hope they get it in.

the twins are the free game on the mlb app tonight for those who just have the audio package.

MannyTheTorpedoes: the dotcher place me on wavers
/waves at passing car

by e-gus on Sep 3, 2010 11:30 AM CDT up reply actions  

have 90% at game time (7pm local) and 100% at 8pm

"We saw death and I don't think we fear it anymore. Not unlike 2005, when we finally clinched and then we took off in the playoffs." Coop 7/29/10

by Ahillock on Sep 3, 2010 11:32 AM CDT up reply actions  

i went with weather underground.

they usually hit it right on the head for the Cell.

MannyTheTorpedoes: the dotcher place me on wavers
/waves at passing car

by e-gus on Sep 3, 2010 11:33 AM CDT up reply actions  

Bill Ayers is a hell of a forecaster

Theain is the guy I Just can’t stand! pierre is almost as bad,he dose get on base more. If Quntin gets any worse trade him. WE NEED HELP!

by 67WMAQ on Sep 3, 2010 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions  

iseewhatyoudidthere

"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else."
Earl Weaver

by Chiburb on Sep 3, 2010 11:41 AM CDT up reply actions  

meteorologist larry

says there’s a 0% chance they get the game in tonight.

by larry on Sep 3, 2010 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

but what if they start it? deja vu all over again...

"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else."
Earl Weaver

by Chiburb on Sep 3, 2010 11:44 AM CDT up reply actions  

who is the umpire crew?

"We saw death and I don't think we fear it anymore. Not unlike 2005, when we finally clinched and then we took off in the playoffs." Coop 7/29/10

by Ahillock on Sep 3, 2010 11:45 AM CDT up reply actions  

there's a hurricane that's going to start dumping water on boston this afternoon.

and then really start dumping it on boston in the early evening. they’re going to call the game long before people start traveling to the game.

by larry on Sep 3, 2010 11:49 AM CDT up reply actions  

should have told that to the royals

"We saw death and I don't think we fear it anymore. Not unlike 2005, when we finally clinched and then we took off in the playoffs." Coop 7/29/10

by Ahillock on Sep 3, 2010 11:50 AM CDT up reply actions  

accuweather says 50% chance before 6, 63% from 6-9

It might start, but the prudent thing to do would be to call it now.

http://www.accuweather.com/us/ma/boston/02108/forecast-accupop.asp?fday=1

"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else."
Earl Weaver

by Chiburb on Sep 3, 2010 11:58 AM CDT up reply actions  

if larry says there's zero chance, there's zero chance goddamnit.

it’s over chiburb.

I photoshopped a boner on the security guard but it's too dark to see --- billyok

by mick10 on Sep 3, 2010 12:35 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

I love it when you analyze!

"Sarcastic little bitch. I’m gonna marry her just to make her miserable." - South Side Expat

by RWShow on Sep 3, 2010 1:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

But certainly makes tonight conflict-free!

"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else."
Earl Weaver

by Chiburb on Sep 3, 2010 12:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

weather can be

such a cunt.

"Hawk Harrelson: Annoying even the hearing impaired": Teahenny Penny paraphrasing Chisoxfan1473

by NorthSidePaulie on Sep 3, 2010 12:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

great recap

Seems like the Sox always struggle in August. That being said, 14-15 seems to be an improvement from most Augusts under Ozzie:

2004 12-17
2005 12-16
2005 16-13
2007 9-20
2008 17-11
2009 11-17
2010 14-15

by moroots on Sep 3, 2010 11:31 AM CDT reply actions  

ah the exception to the exceptions

MannyTheTorpedoes: the dotcher place me on wavers
/waves at passing car

by e-gus on Sep 3, 2010 11:33 AM CDT up reply actions  

those two season where they made the playoffs are the exceptions unfortunately

MannyTheTorpedoes: the dotcher place me on wavers
/waves at passing car

by e-gus on Sep 3, 2010 11:32 AM CDT up reply actions  

so the question is, how will we do in September?

I say 17-11

"We saw death and I don't think we fear it anymore. Not unlike 2005, when we finally clinched and then we took off in the playoffs." Coop 7/29/10

by Ahillock on Sep 3, 2010 11:41 AM CDT up reply actions  

might have to be a bit better

Not exactly a stretch that the Twins could play .647 ball given their remaining schedule.

"Hawk Harrelson: Annoying even the hearing impaired": Teahenny Penny paraphrasing Chisoxfan1473

by NorthSidePaulie on Sep 3, 2010 11:50 AM CDT up reply actions  

Gotta

Hope the Blue Jays fuck up their shit (not totally unreasonable, given their starting staff) and Detroit is a thorn. Hope has come to the Southside? ?

"Rather be stupid and win than smart and lose."

-RWShow

by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Sep 3, 2010 11:56 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

Some on the northside too.

"Hawk Harrelson: Annoying even the hearing impaired": Teahenny Penny paraphrasing Chisoxfan1473

by NorthSidePaulie on Sep 3, 2010 11:57 AM CDT up reply actions  

why the blue jays? am i missing something?

"We saw death and I don't think we fear it anymore. Not unlike 2005, when we finally clinched and then we took off in the playoffs." Coop 7/29/10

by Ahillock on Sep 3, 2010 11:57 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah maybe so. This is the last stand. Should know by the Twins series how we stand

Sept schedules

Sox:
3 @ BOS
4@ DET
3 vs KC
3 vs MINN
3 vs DET
3 @ OAK
3 @ LAA
4 vs BOS

Twins
3 vs TX
3 vs KC
3 @ CLE
3 @ CWS
3 vs OAK
3 vs CLE
3 @ DET
3 @ KC
1 vs TOR

"We saw death and I don't think we fear it anymore. Not unlike 2005, when we finally clinched and then we took off in the playoffs." Coop 7/29/10

by Ahillock on Sep 3, 2010 11:57 AM CDT up reply actions  

Shit

I thought they played Toronto more. Whoops.

"Rather be stupid and win than smart and lose."

-RWShow

by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Sep 3, 2010 11:59 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

Yes I meant in September

I thought they played each other more.

"Rather be stupid and win than smart and lose."

-RWShow

by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Sep 3, 2010 12:02 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

sorry that was suppose to say 17-10

"We saw death and I don't think we fear it anymore. Not unlike 2005, when we finally clinched and then we took off in the playoffs." Coop 7/29/10

by Ahillock on Sep 3, 2010 12:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

Great read Tdogg

1. Rongey’s terrible in spite of the the idiots he has to field. I’m invariably angry at something he says, night after night, win or lose. And I don’t buy “it’s his employer” either. He had no problem torching the Sox (well the players anyway) during the painfully slow start.

2. If JP was the only player allowed to attempt SBs, how much better would EqBrr be?

3. We do have a solid bench. It’s an underrated strength, so thanks for pointing it out. It’s a long season, injuries happen (are happening). Versatility helps here. But yes having someone who can hit at DH is pretty important too.

"Hawk Harrelson: Annoying even the hearing impaired": Teahenny Penny paraphrasing Chisoxfan1473

by NorthSidePaulie on Sep 3, 2010 11:45 AM CDT reply actions  

re #1

There’s a difference between torching the players and the ones that put food on his family.

"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else."
Earl Weaver

by Chiburb on Sep 3, 2010 12:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

Iseewhatyoudidthere

Theain is the guy I Just can’t stand! pierre is almost as bad,he dose get on base more. If Quntin gets any worse trade him. WE NEED HELP!

by 67WMAQ on Sep 3, 2010 12:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yes, that's correct

Radio announcers work for management and often seem to have no problem with player criticism, but not front office ditto.

And The Score would seem to have a financial reason not to piss off White Sox management also, so it may not even matter if he’s employed by the Sox or not. That said, I do hear the non-Sox-associated Score “personalities” often gripe about more than just the players.

Therefore easing off the “I don’t buy” part of #1, but still think that if he was a Score employee he could torch KW and Ozzie more than he does.

"Hawk Harrelson: Annoying even the hearing impaired": Teahenny Penny paraphrasing Chisoxfan1473

by NorthSidePaulie on Sep 3, 2010 12:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

.

I photoshopped a boner on the security guard but it's too dark to see --- billyok

by mick10 on Sep 3, 2010 12:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

Just need to stay healthy the rest of the way. Hope Becks comes back soon.

Any update on his status?

"We saw death and I don't think we fear it anymore. Not unlike 2005, when we finally clinched and then we took off in the playoffs." Coop 7/29/10

by Ahillock on Sep 3, 2010 11:49 AM CDT reply actions  

Hurricane-out

As much as I like to see the boys play, an extra day of rest for weary arms and Bacon’s wrist is OK with me…all while the Twins meet a very good Texas team after last night’s grueling 13-inning loss.

"Stretch with the team. Be there for the National Anthem." - Ozzie Guillen's only two rules for Manny

by tailgater on Sep 3, 2010 12:03 PM CDT reply actions  

Good Texas team vs. a good prospect called up from Double A

Theain is the guy I Just can’t stand! pierre is almost as bad,he dose get on base more. If Quntin gets any worse trade him. WE NEED HELP!

by 67WMAQ on Sep 3, 2010 12:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

Matt Fox?

Isn’t that the guy fom “Lost”?

"Stretch with the team. Be there for the National Anthem." - Ozzie Guillen's only two rules for Manny

by tailgater on Sep 3, 2010 12:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

he's was going to get rocked

MannyTheTorpedoes: the dotcher place me on wavers
/waves at passing car

by e-gus on Sep 3, 2010 12:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

Looked at an old scouting report, whoops

Theain is the guy I Just can’t stand! pierre is almost as bad,he dose get on base more. If Quntin gets any worse trade him. WE NEED HELP!

by 67WMAQ on Sep 3, 2010 12:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

Texas 32-32 on the road, with a 100 point OPS difference. I wish this game was there, not Minny.

"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else."
Earl Weaver

by Chiburb on Sep 3, 2010 12:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

Plus they can more or less cruise now right?

Unless they totally swoon or whoever takes the central soars I don’t see their playoff matchups changing.

"Hawk Harrelson: Annoying even the hearing impaired": Teahenny Penny paraphrasing Chisoxfan1473

by NorthSidePaulie on Sep 3, 2010 12:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

right now they would play the yankee, if they sweep teh twinn they would play teh twinn.

yanks can’t play TB, right? so they play the worst record between the other two.

by Trooper on Sep 3, 2010 12:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

but rayy can win east too

MannyTheTorpedoes: the dotcher place me on wavers
/waves at passing car

by e-gus on Sep 3, 2010 12:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

yeah that too.

point is teh ranger have things to play for unless they want to play the team with the best record without home field advannagewhite

by Trooper on Sep 3, 2010 12:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

Thanks

Gives me hope then. Since the Ranger is the toughest remaining opponent on the Twin schedule.

"Hawk Harrelson: Annoying even the hearing impaired": Teahenny Penny paraphrasing Chisoxfan1473

by NorthSidePaulie on Sep 3, 2010 12:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

Do Not Like

off days (let alone 2) when the momentum seems to be good.

"Hawk Harrelson: Annoying even the hearing impaired": Teahenny Penny paraphrasing Chisoxfan1473

by NorthSidePaulie on Sep 3, 2010 12:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

Vin Scully:

Momentum is the day’s starting pitcher. And I agree. I don’t believe in game-to-game momentum, personally. In game, yes. But I don’t think there’s a carry over.

"Rather be stupid and win than smart and lose."

-RWShow

by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Sep 3, 2010 12:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

I suppose I tend to put more emphasis on the mental intangibles of the game

than the majority of this site.

"Hawk Harrelson: Annoying even the hearing impaired": Teahenny Penny paraphrasing Chisoxfan1473

by NorthSidePaulie on Sep 3, 2010 12:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

Another day of rest for the bullpen makes my mental intangibles much saner.

"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else."
Earl Weaver

by Chiburb on Sep 3, 2010 12:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

And Bacon's wrist.

"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else."
Earl Weaver

by Chiburb on Sep 3, 2010 12:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

yes it is for bacon's wrist

thank you earl

"We saw death and I don't think we fear it anymore. Not unlike 2005, when we finally clinched and then we took off in the playoffs." Coop 7/29/10

by Ahillock on Sep 3, 2010 12:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

I wasn't trying to argue against some of the mental intangiables myself

I actually really do believe in some of them. But I get what you mean.

"Rather be stupid and win than smart and lose."

-RWShow

by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Sep 3, 2010 12:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

you must have forgotten about the month of june

"We saw death and I don't think we fear it anymore. Not unlike 2005, when we finally clinched and then we took off in the playoffs." Coop 7/29/10

by Ahillock on Sep 3, 2010 12:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

I've just been reminded by Tdogg

how Danks has pitched in August too.

Floyd to a lesser extent but also him. Can’t say for sure of course but they don’t “look” tired or injured. Can’t say for sure it’s not mental either though.

"Hawk Harrelson: Annoying even the hearing impaired": Teahenny Penny paraphrasing Chisoxfan1473

by NorthSidePaulie on Sep 3, 2010 12:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

never said the starters didn't tear it up

but there is something about game to game momentum, just look at august when the shit hit the fan

"We saw death and I don't think we fear it anymore. Not unlike 2005, when we finally clinched and then we took off in the playoffs." Coop 7/29/10

by Ahillock on Sep 3, 2010 12:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

support with evidence.

otherwise, piss in the wind and there’s no reason to debate such things.

by larry on Sep 3, 2010 12:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

hmmmm, how bout the fuckin record?

when you get hot easy to string together 5-6 wins in a row. when you lose that momentum, it is easy to string together 3-4 losses in a row. so give me your address so I can piss on you

"We saw death and I don't think we fear it anymore. Not unlike 2005, when we finally clinched and then we took off in the playoffs." Coop 7/29/10

by Ahillock on Sep 3, 2010 12:31 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

sorry larry that you are too smart for all of us

"We saw death and I don't think we fear it anymore. Not unlike 2005, when we finally clinched and then we took off in the playoffs." Coop 7/29/10

by Ahillock on Sep 3, 2010 12:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

it doesn't take a great deal of smarts

to come up with a better argument for your position than “they won 5 straight games ergo they won 5 straight games because of momentum.”

by larry on Sep 3, 2010 12:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

Then how do you explain

the fact that only 25% of doubleheaders are swept…

by Gentleman Jim on Sep 3, 2010 1:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

This joke

is probably from too long ago, and too unknown.

by Gentleman Jim on Sep 3, 2010 1:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

I was justing thinking

about trying to make a reference to this when tonight’s game is canceled, lol. Well done, Jim. Oh, and thanks for the luck from last night (and Dr. Lizard). I think the interview went well.

"Rather be stupid and win than smart and lose."

-RWShow

by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Sep 3, 2010 1:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

hahaha

Some people get so rich they lose all respect for humanity. That's how rich I want to be.

by MarketMaker on Sep 3, 2010 1:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

"Check out the big brain on Brad!"

"Sarcastic little bitch. I’m gonna marry her just to make her miserable." - South Side Expat

by RWShow on Sep 3, 2010 1:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm with larry on this one

Just because Thorton gave up that monster shot to Thome, Putz wasn’t more likely to turn around and get socked by Avila. It just happened that way. It sucks to high heaven that it did, but the relationship is correlative, not causative.

"Rather be stupid and win than smart and lose."

-RWShow

by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Sep 3, 2010 12:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm not saying it's measurable or even significant...

…but really Zero chance that Thornton’s blown save could’ve been on Putz’s mind when Ozzie declined to go with Thorny for the save against Detroit? Zero chance that Putz is human rather than an automaton and that increased pressure to save a game might affect his performance?

Yes both guys are hurt and may have been hurting at the time. but sometimes “trying harder” leads to injury too, another thing that’s difficult-to-impossible to measure or quantify.

"Hawk Harrelson: Annoying even the hearing impaired": Teahenny Penny paraphrasing Chisoxfan1473

by NorthSidePaulie on Sep 3, 2010 1:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

agreed

Does that mean it’s beyond discussion or speculation?

I’m prepared for the answer to be “yes”.

"Hawk Harrelson: Annoying even the hearing impaired": Teahenny Penny paraphrasing Chisoxfan1473

by NorthSidePaulie on Sep 3, 2010 1:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

that's why Rongey's show exists

"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else."
Earl Weaver

by Chiburb on Sep 3, 2010 1:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

Bazing!

"Hawk Harrelson: Annoying even the hearing impaired": Teahenny Penny paraphrasing Chisoxfan1473

by NorthSidePaulie on Sep 3, 2010 1:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

Thanks for the useful and civil reply.

Honestly.

Now an honest question: Are non-quantifiable intangibles ever grounds for discussion (let’s say for entertainment or even educational value – let’s say for less senior and/or less statistically savvy participants) on this site?

"Hawk Harrelson: Annoying even the hearing impaired": Teahenny Penny paraphrasing Chisoxfan1473

by NorthSidePaulie on Sep 3, 2010 1:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm all for it.

Like it or not, the intangibles discussion is a part of baseball. Always has been, always will be.

"Rather be stupid and win than smart and lose."

-RWShow

by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Sep 3, 2010 1:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

i don't mind the discussion all that much.

but i’d like people to acknowledge that they aren’t going to be able to provide much support for it. “momentum”, “chemistry”, “character” and whatever other so-called intangibles you want to add to that list likely exist. they also likely have very little effect on things – and pale in comparison to things like “talent”. getting worked up over them is, as mentioned, not particularly useful.

by larry on Sep 3, 2010 1:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

Agree. For the sake of arguement, how would you explain Javy Vasquez?

A guy with unquestionable talent, but who consistently performed better in lower-leverage and expectation situations?

"Rather be stupid and win than smart and lose."

-RWShow

by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Sep 3, 2010 1:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

Exactly this

My concern as a fan of the White Sox as currently constituted for 2010 playoff purposes and for future roster engineering is whether JJ Putz (as an example here) is closer in the mental makeup department to a Rivera or closer to a Vazquez.

"Hawk Harrelson: Annoying even the hearing impaired": Teahenny Penny paraphrasing Chisoxfan1473

by NorthSidePaulie on Sep 3, 2010 2:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

So what's your explanation for the 2005 bullpen?

Or Bobby Jenks’ transformation from unwanted trash to elite closer?

DANIEL HUDSON SUCKS. HOWS THAT GUN BAN WORKING FOR YOU MAYOR DALLY

by Ozzie Montana on Sep 3, 2010 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

With jenks specifically

the issue was never his arm, it was his off the field stupidity that hampered him. And with bullpens, sometimes they just have crazy good years. I think everyone agrees those are the hardest thing to predict/make for the baseball season.

"Rather be stupid and win than smart and lose."

-RWShow

by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Sep 3, 2010 2:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

Couple things

one, Jenks always had the physical skills, he was unwanted trash because of his attitude and off-the-field behavior

two, i would say not enough of a sample size in 2005 to say that he was elite

by moroots on Sep 3, 2010 2:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

it could be

in the case of Jenks that his skills have deteriorated, since he’s in the past and in 2005 certainly demonstrated pretty good performance under very high leverage indeed.

As for Politte and Cotts, IIRC they were ridden pretty hard in 2005.

"Hawk Harrelson: Annoying even the hearing impaired": Teahenny Penny paraphrasing Chisoxfan1473

by NorthSidePaulie on Sep 3, 2010 2:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

sometimes i feel like he is trash again

does that count?

"We saw death and I don't think we fear it anymore. Not unlike 2005, when we finally clinched and then we took off in the playoffs." Coop 7/29/10

by Ahillock on Sep 3, 2010 2:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well, Putz has closed before

so the issue with him I don’t think is mental, but physical. The mental questions on the Sox, for me at least, are Santos, Linebrink (also an issue of talent) and Sale.

"Rather be stupid and win than smart and lose."

-RWShow

by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Sep 3, 2010 2:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

Linebrink

used to be good once upon a time (albeit in San Diego).

Santos: (another hard-to-quantify cliche) has the league caught up to him?

Sale: impressive so far, must have raw talent or wouldn’t have been rated so highly, hopefully adjusts well as the opponents adjust to him.

"Hawk Harrelson: Annoying even the hearing impaired": Teahenny Penny paraphrasing Chisoxfan1473

by NorthSidePaulie on Sep 3, 2010 2:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

mechanics.

maybe he’s a pussy, too, but he throws more “mistake” pitches than he should, particularly out of the stretch. this is what a lot of baseball analysts miss when evaluating pitchers simply by looking at pitch f/x data, which, unless you really get into it with your own databases and such, is aggregated data about how a pitcher performs overall. javy looks super in those data sets because he’s very good the vast majority of the time. but he throws a few too many cookies.

also, compare these two pitchers in low and high level situations.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?n1=vazquja01&year=Career&t=p#lever

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?n1=buehrma01&year=Career&t=p#lever

by larry on Sep 3, 2010 2:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

Doesn't that beg the question

of WHY his mechanics get worse?

In regards to the comparision, doesn’t some of that have to do with the fact that one (and always has been considered to have) better pure ‘stuff’ [as measured by the number of strike outs and peripherals]?

"Rather be stupid and win than smart and lose."

-RWShow

by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Sep 3, 2010 2:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

Watch Gavin Floyd pitch out of the stretch

I’m not an expert on mechanics, but especially when Gavin goes to the slide step, it seems to me he doesn’t come over the top of the ball as when he’s in the windup. The result is that he has problems keeping his fastball down and like larry said about vazquez, has a tendency to throw cookies.

certainly my opinion. I would like to hear what someone with a better understanding of pitching mechanics has to say.

by moroots on Sep 3, 2010 2:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

*why they get worse in high leverage situations

sorry. In ’08, he went right to pieces, and early on, in those last 3 games (NYY, MIN & CLE) and then the start in the playoffs. Usually, when he falls apart, it happens late in the game, but this was the same time as the, “Ozzie Tells Javy to Step it Up” stuff, right? Correlative or causal?

"Rather be stupid and win than smart and lose."

-RWShow

by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Sep 3, 2010 2:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

not sure what you mean with the second paragraph.

if that’s a reasoning, that’s stupid. MB has one of, if not the best, changeups in baseball. if people want to say he doesn’t have good stuff because he’s not a power pitcher, that’s dumb. my point with the comparison is that you have two pitchers, both of whom who are pretty good and have had long careers, with rather similar performances in so-called high and low leverage situations (and, i realize this is quick and dirty analysis and may not be quite so accurate if one actually delved into the stats). and one is considered a pussy while another is considered a gamer.

and if you’d like to say that he isn’t able to repeat his mechanics out of the stretch because he’s a mental midget, feel free. i think it simply has more to do with his delivery from the stretch not lending itself to it, not to mention that he also has trouble doing it when he’s fatigued.

by larry on Sep 3, 2010 2:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

MB is white. Javy is one of them.

"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else."
Earl Weaver

by Chiburb on Sep 3, 2010 4:11 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

Hook him up to an EEG and see what his brain waves are like.

DANIEL HUDSON SUCKS. HOWS THAT GUN BAN WORKING FOR YOU MAYOR DALLY

by Ozzie Montana on Sep 3, 2010 1:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

It doesn't have a phsyical impact, no.

I don’t think Putz was thinking, "Gee, I really can’t give up a home run here because Thorton gave one up the other night,‘’ I think he was just thinking, "I make my pitch and I get out of this,’’ but the injury to his knee didn’t allow for it.

Do I discount the idea that mental stress and strain plays a role? Not for a bit. But, on the other hand, very, very, very few hitters are able to truly drive good pitchers pitches. Guys go through hot and cold stretches, but it was coincidental that Thorton and Putz became bad/hurt at the same time.

Look at Rivera and Manny. No matter what the situation is, those guys are the same. The context only matters if the individual player lets it.

"Rather be stupid and win than smart and lose."

-RWShow

by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Sep 3, 2010 1:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

FWIW and getting close to nonuseful dead horse territory

I think some players (Rivera and Manny are excellent examples) are less susceptible to mental stress. It’s one of those (currently per the EEG quip) non-measurable factors that makes for a great player.

The kind you want to have on your tea… oh wait!

"Hawk Harrelson: Annoying even the hearing impaired": Teahenny Penny paraphrasing Chisoxfan1473

by NorthSidePaulie on Sep 3, 2010 1:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

see, this is measurable.

performance by an individual isn’t hard to determine. if a player handles stress better than another player, his overall numbers will be better. if you want to specifically look at how he does in what you would define as stressful situations, you can look that up too, or use something like WPA.

by larry on Sep 3, 2010 1:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

To give you at least one non-snarky response,

it is pretty much only useful for telling stories after the fact. Those stories are just about always unprovable but they are what moves paper. They turn a game or a few games or a entire season into a storyline that people can relate to, regardless of the story’s veracity.

A-Rod has trouble producing in the post-season and all of a sudden everyone turns into an armchair psychologist about why. That is more fun for most people than pointing out the post-season is not a statistically significant number of AB to tell if there is a true difference.

by CatBrains on Sep 3, 2010 1:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

but how many of those losses were due to a depleted, tired bullpen that could use an extra day off?

and how many of the wins were despite the same?

"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else."
Earl Weaver

by Chiburb on Sep 3, 2010 12:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

ask larry , he knows

"We saw death and I don't think we fear it anymore. Not unlike 2005, when we finally clinched and then we took off in the playoffs." Coop 7/29/10

by Ahillock on Sep 3, 2010 12:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

Valid enough I suppose

but isn’t the extra day off now counterbalanced with a brutal stretch that would include a Boston make up game between the normal end of the season date and start of the playoffs? Plus a possible not-out-of-the-question 163?

All assuming things go as we hope of course.

"Hawk Harrelson: Annoying even the hearing impaired": Teahenny Penny paraphrasing Chisoxfan1473

by NorthSidePaulie on Sep 3, 2010 12:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

It is, and I believe it's tomorrow's starting pitcher.

"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else."
Earl Weaver

by Chiburb on Sep 3, 2010 12:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

It might be

but I know that Vin Scully has said it. He was interviewed by Boers & Bernstein in…2008, I want to say, and said it then. They’ve played it ad nausium since they got it.

"Rather be stupid and win than smart and lose."

-RWShow

by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Sep 3, 2010 12:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yes, I guess a sweep of the Indians qualifies as "momentum"

But what the hell can you do, right?

"Stretch with the team. Be there for the National Anthem." - Ozzie Guillen's only two rules for Manny

by tailgater on Sep 3, 2010 12:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

It does when we've sucked as bad against them as we have this year

"Hawk Harrelson: Annoying even the hearing impaired": Teahenny Penny paraphrasing Chisoxfan1473

by NorthSidePaulie on Sep 3, 2010 12:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

and the royals, and the orioles

"We saw death and I don't think we fear it anymore. Not unlike 2005, when we finally clinched and then we took off in the playoffs." Coop 7/29/10

by Ahillock on Sep 3, 2010 12:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yes

And we get a chance for some retribution against KC still too.

"Hawk Harrelson: Annoying even the hearing impaired": Teahenny Penny paraphrasing Chisoxfan1473

by NorthSidePaulie on Sep 3, 2010 12:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

being the newb tourist I am

I thought I’d stop by and send congrats to TDogg. This story is linked off of SI’s web site.

Well, gotta run. Ciao!

Comonnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn You White Sox!

by zokmaad on Sep 3, 2010 12:47 PM CDT reply actions  

don't go away maad!

"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else."
Earl Weaver

by Chiburb on Sep 3, 2010 12:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

I love this.

"Before you can say 'sounds of the game,' Mark Kotsay is out." -Chris Rose

by Teahenny Penny on Sep 3, 2010 2:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

To go through a frustrating month like that ...

and still be in striking distance gives me optimisim that they can make this interesting all the up to the MN series in a couple weeks. Once we get there 2 back it’s in their hands, which is all you can ask for with the team we had going into the season (i.e. the 2005 MLB all-star team).

by Billy Charlesbois on Sep 3, 2010 1:11 PM CDT reply actions  

Update from Quincy, MA

No hurricane yet (partly cloudly with no rain at the moment). Local forecasts show the hurricane likely passing more to the east of Nantucket than originally thought, although I’m with Larry – 0% chance of getting the game in tonight.

The good news is that every forecast I’ve seen shows sunny and pleasant weather saturday. The hurricane will blow through quickly and the rest of the weekend should be unaffected.

by vince_ on Sep 3, 2010 1:29 PM CDT reply actions  

They shoot horses, don't they?

 "Dustin Pedroia will have a CT scan on his broken left foot today, and the team’s medical staff will determine if he needs to be put down. "

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/blog/big_league_stew/post/The-Juice-Well-that-was-ugly-Tigers-outlast-T;ylt=AgmXGwTvNf0jKEYhuUpyjUEvLYF?urn=mlb-267136

"I became an optimist when I discovered that I wasn't going to win any more games by being anything else."
Earl Weaver

by Chiburb on Sep 3, 2010 1:30 PM CDT reply actions   1 recs

This is excellent.

"Sarcastic little bitch. I’m gonna marry her just to make her miserable." - South Side Expat

by RWShow on Sep 3, 2010 1:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

670 is reporting the game

has been postponed.

"Rather be stupid and win than smart and lose."

-RWShow

by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Sep 3, 2010 1:56 PM CDT reply actions  

Psh, it's a Category 1. Pansies.

DANIEL HUDSON SUCKS. HOWS THAT GUN BAN WORKING FOR YOU MAYOR DALLY

by Ozzie Montana on Sep 3, 2010 1:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

Very nice recap, Tdogg.

Regarding Rongey, it astounds me that so many people that get paid to follow baseball, especially a single team, know so little about what it takes to win games. On top of that, perhaps they don’t care to expand their knowledge of the game by boning up on modern and increasingly-used stats. I hardly ever dabble in more mainstream opinion-driven sports media. Turns out there’s a reason, even though there is some element of hilarity to be found.

As 67WMAQ said, though, you’re fighting the good fight. Thanks for that.

"Before you can say 'sounds of the game,' Mark Kotsay is out." -Chris Rose

by Teahenny Penny on Sep 3, 2010 2:50 PM CDT reply actions  

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