Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: The Most Dangerous Division in Sports

White Sox look better from above

One of the fun things about blogging the White Sox is that you have to negotiate a wide variety of sentiments, based on who is conducting the evaluation. The conflict is on full display this week -- those looking mostly at the 25-man roster feel pretty good about the Sox, and those studying minor-league depth marvel at the wafer-thin state of the system and wonder when it will all come tumbling down.

It's not quite like the emperor has no clothes -- it's more like the emperor has no pants. The more risk-averse teams would be mortified at the prospect of being exposed in a disaster, but there's another school of thought that believes the farm system is meant to develop currency for scoring proven major-leaguers. From that perspective, being bottomless means you're already halfway to a great time.

That's the conclusion Jeff Passan reached in his season preview of the 2011 White Sox. He listed all the various concerns and potential pitfalls the roster faces -- Paul Konerko won't repeat 2010, the corner outfielders might provide little impact, Chris Sale could alternately leave the bullpen thin as a starter, or lose potential as a reliever ... and yet this is his final paragraph:

Nonetheless, it’s hard to argue with the 2005 World Series title and the annual contention, and amid the individual inconsistency, that’s something that shouldn’t change. The White Sox, their drama and their money aren’t going anywhere.

And he's not alone with his optimism.

Star-divide

Over at Baseball Think Factory, Dan Szymborski posted his ZIPS projections for the White Sox, and his interpretation of the roster construction is similar to Passan's:

The team's depth isn't that great, but Kenny Williams is always aggressive about improving the team, whether it's landing Peavy, picking up Ramirez's money, or taking a risk and picking up Alexis Rios's contract (a much better risk than picking up Vernon Wells). Not all of his moves work out, but the saying is Audaces fortuna iuvat, after all.

The projections themselves provide a great opportunity for critical thinking. They're more than numbers -- they're arguments, because they're also amalgamations of a player's traits, weighted in a certain order of importance. And Syzm is usually more than willing to fill in the gaps. Just say his last name three times, and he appears.

So you can look at Edwin Jackson's uninspiring ERA (4.55) and WHIP (1.41) and think it's way too pessimistic -- but that's certainly reasonable in a world where Don Cooper didn't help him fix his collapsed back leg. On the flipside, I think the Sox would love to see Quentin hit .261/.358/.495. That line is optimistic because, as Szym explained in the BTF thread, ZIPS is still calling shenanigans on his absurdly low BABIP (.232). I've never gotten the impression that Quentin is particularly unlucky from watching him, but it's both nice and frustrating to know what he would look like if he became less radical.

A handful of other quick reactions:

*Gordon Beckham's projection is eye-raising (.264/.331/.421), but it's also his career line. It seems like the easiest "over" pick to take. He hit .206/.271/.280 in his first 81 games last year, then rallied with a .342/.401/.574 until Frank Herrmann's jerk fastball screwed up his hand on Aug. 30.

*Alex Rios' comparisons are Garry Maddox, Aaron Rowand and Marquis Grissom, which isn't good if you want him producing from ages 31-33 (when he'll be making $12 million annually). Rios concerns me, because while he was more than adequate offensively, May was the only month where he posted an OPS higher than .800. That makes it one good offensive month out of eight in his time with the Sox, and that needs improvement.

*Gavin Floyd actually has a chance at underperforming ZIPS for the first time in his career. Previous projections included ERAs of 4.78 and 5.11 the past two seasons, but it looks like it's caught up with his improved home run rate. Floyd only allowed 14 last season.

Floyd history against ZIPS might be a good reference point for Jackson in his first and last full season with the Sox.

*Anthony Carter comes out looking the worst of all the pitchers not named "Scott Elarton," which is actually kind of reassuring to me from a baseball-watching perspective. Aside from his good 10 innings in the Arizona Fall League, I don't see the appeal.

*Javier Colina has a better chance of an excellent 2011 (1 percent) than Jordan Danks (zero percent).

*Paul Konerko and Adam Dunn are both considered "fair" at first base, and if you believe the metrics, that's being kind to Konerko, as Dunn pantsed him across UZR, Plus-minus and Total Zone. Konerko's piss-poor results confound me. I don't think he's a good first baseman, but I honestly couldn't detect any different in his usual step-and-a-flop range from 2009 to 2010.

However, if the metrics are indeed onto something, then that means it's perfectly fine to rotate Dunn in for some time at first base once or twice a week.

J.J. shares some additional thoughts over at White Sox Examiner.

Star-divide

Prior to ZIPS' release, a couple of notable prospect lists cast the White Sox in an unfavorable light -- Kevin Goldstein's Top 11 prospects and Keith Law's organizational rankings.

Listening to Goldstein's podcast, he and Jason Grey talk for 10 minutes about the White Sox farm system, and their capper is decidedly more pessmistic:

Kevin Goldstein: I wrote this at the end -- I'm a big fan of Kenny Williams. I like his aggressiveness. He's very aggressive in the trade market ... he's very aggressive in free agency, and they've yet to ever bring that aggressiveness to either the draft or the international market. It's very weird to me because their system is always kinda bad, because they're very boring in the way they approach player procurement.

Jason Grey: It doesn't seem to be very sustainable, and I'm looking at your top 10 talents, 25-and-under ... [Trayce] Thompson, the guy that we said has very little chance to do anything in baseball, is No. 10.

KG: Yeah, the only two young players on that big-league team are [John] Danks and Beckham, that's it.

JG: Just on the surface, this does not like a team that's going to be anything close to competitive in two years.

Just on the surface, there's nothing wrong with this claim. But I think Williams' maneuvering after the 2007 season rendered much of the conventional wisdom irrelevant. He had a 90-loss team, and a familiarly thin farm system that had high-ceiling prospects, but were years away from contributing.

Baseball Prospectus

Fautino de los Santos
Gio Gonzalez
Aaron Poreda
Chris Carter
John Shelby
Jose Martinez
Jack Egbert
Ryan Sweeney
Lance Broadway
Brian Omogrosso

Baseball America

Aaron Poreda
Lance Broadway
Jack Egbert
Jose Martinez
Chris Getz
John Ely
Juan Silverio
John Shelby
Adam Russell
Kyle McCulloch

Saddled with an aging roster that fell apart, Williams took the only sensible and responsible route -- he ransacked the top shelf of the farm system to acquire older players, and then signed two 30-something relievers.

His team won the AL Central the following year.

The Baseball Prospectus (published Nov. 7, 2007) and Baseball America (published Jan. 13, 2008) lists show what the farm system looked like before and after Williams traded for Nick Swisher and Carlos Quentin.

That BA list was probably rock bottom for a historically rocky White Sox farm system. Three years after the trades, the White Sox have received no meaningful direct contributions from any of the Top 10 remaining prospects

And yet here they are, coming off an 88-win season and with a good a shot as anybody to win the Central in 2011.

It's easy to say the White Sox are doomed to future mediocrity, because it's easy to see what they could look like in another world: the Houston Astros. The Astros don't spend on the draft, they don't develop many players, and they're concerned with maintaining the facade of a contender. It has proven to be a dreadfully draining combination for them, and the White Sox seem lucky to avoid such a fate.

But it's worked too long to be just plain luck. Williams is unorthodox, and his comfort zone is in a completely different place. He might be the Tim Lincecum of GMs -- his method looks so strenuous and violent that it doesn't look like it can last over a long career, and yet the day of reckoning has never arrived.

In this case, the day of reckoning is three years away. Just like it was three years ago.

Star-divide

Relevant Mystery Science Theatre clip -- can we say Kenny Williams often has to be at his Ben Murphyest? (Note: The Williams-symbolic scene starts at 2:40.)


Comment 89 comments  |  0 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

Will we have a chance to participate in community projections this year?

Nice post too.

"I never say one bad thing about those stupid fucking Cubs fans. Not a single word about those mother-shitting pieces of fuck"

by onlysoxfaninbasel on Jan 28, 2011 4:41 AM CST reply actions  

i vote that colin starts them up soon

When I was a kid, I didn't want to be a doctor or a fireman. I wanted to be Super Mario. It's the most literal pipe dream I've ever had.

by U-God on Jan 28, 2011 11:07 AM CST up reply actions  

very pleased with Kenny's maneuvers as a GM

except, as mentioned in yesterday’s thread, last year’s DH mystery.

Speaking of mystery, the video clip now opens a right rail opportunity for the debate; Joel or Mike- which represented the best years of MST3K?

NISFW (now it's safe for work!)

by greenlight on Jan 28, 2011 5:36 AM CST reply actions  

Check the RRRR.

THIS NEW ARRANGEMENT SHOULD BE POOTY GOO

by Jim Margalus on Jan 28, 2011 2:57 PM CST up reply actions  

Good job in stealing TP's link-roundup thunder, Jim.

You and Cheat would work well together.

"One thought driven home is better than three left on base."

by winningugly on Jan 28, 2011 6:23 AM CST reply actions  

Passan's article pissed me off

Saying our boys aren’t going anywhere. We all know that ain’t true.

Sabermetrics hurt my head, just give me the facts.

by CATDADDY47 on Jan 28, 2011 7:52 AM CST reply actions  

mmm, we aren't going anywhere, meaning that we will be in contention for a division title

does the white sox being in contention for a division title piss you off?

"I never say one bad thing about those stupid fucking Cubs fans. Not a single word about those mother-shitting pieces of fuck"

by onlysoxfaninbasel on Jan 28, 2011 8:03 AM CST up reply actions  

No matter what happens, the analysis is always the same

“This team is unorthodox. Lots of holes. Can get to the playoffs if all goes well. Kenny will keep his team in contention.”

I would be happier with “This team makes the post season. You can book it, Danno”

The guy at the bank doesn't care how many trophies you've got!

by 67WMAQ on Jan 28, 2011 8:12 AM CST up reply actions  

i think there are less holes this season than last

but otherwise, i don’t think any of the predictions from online analysts/writers thus far have been more on the pessimistic side including passan’s article

i look forward to checking the daily BP playoff odds when the season begins

"I never say one bad thing about those stupid fucking Cubs fans. Not a single word about those mother-shitting pieces of fuck"

by onlysoxfaninbasel on Jan 28, 2011 8:29 AM CST up reply actions  

The fantasy publications are saying the same

Don’t count on Konerko or Rios to duplicate 2010.

I would take the over on Beckham and Morel.

I would be more than happy if the TCQ predictions came true.

The guy at the bank doesn't care how many trophies you've got!

by 67WMAQ on Jan 28, 2011 8:33 AM CST up reply actions  

I think the nice thing is..

Konerko doesn’t have to do what he did last year for this season to be a success. If he has just an average Konerko season, we’ll probably be fine.

by Grinder in Training on Jan 28, 2011 8:52 AM CST up reply actions  

And Rios last year wasn't a crazy over-acheivement by any means.

It was just a typical Alex Rios year. I think that’s how Kenny has built the team. If every guy does what he usually does (factoring in growth from Beckham/Sale/Danks and slight decline for Konerko/Pierre/AJ) you’ve got a 91ish win team. That should be good enough to get into the playoffs in the central (interesting that that’s the only division in baseball with three $100+ million payrolls) and with the starting 4 you’ve got for sure, maybe you get lucky.

Your 2011 Chicago White Sox: Donkey Kong!!!

by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Jan 28, 2011 9:14 AM CST up reply actions  

Konerko yes

but Rios I see mainly even from 2010. I’d like him to improve his SB efficiency.

Does UZR take into consideration the JumpThrow?

by Tdogg on Jan 28, 2011 8:53 AM CST up reply actions  

Any idea what the chances of that are?

It’s not like he’s 23, do guys his age normally get better at that? Other than just not stealing at all.

by Grinder in Training on Jan 28, 2011 9:45 AM CST up reply actions  

I'll check but I don't think efficiency is age related

Its technique and smarts. Assuming of course you have some speed. Rios just prior to last year was very good at it. Above 80% the last 3 years.

Does UZR take into consideration the JumpThrow?

by Tdogg on Jan 28, 2011 10:06 AM CST up reply actions  

the obvious running situation has been an issue, for sure.

Some people get so rich they lose all respect for humanity. That's how rich I want to be.

by MarketMaker on Jan 30, 2011 8:49 PM CST up reply actions  

i'm thinking about projection for the team as a whole

instead of focusing on individual projections

"I never say one bad thing about those stupid fucking Cubs fans. Not a single word about those mother-shitting pieces of fuck"

by onlysoxfaninbasel on Jan 28, 2011 9:37 AM CST up reply actions  

Konerko of course

but Rios?

Original visitors' friend in the Lancaster County area!

by colintj on Jan 28, 2011 11:33 AM CST up reply actions  

Fewer.

THIS NEW ARRANGEMENT SHOULD BE POOTY GOO

by Jim Margalus on Jan 28, 2011 2:57 PM CST up reply actions  

I'm also liking

the increased Sox-related FP content volume.

"Hawk Harrelson: Annoying even the hearing impaired": Teahenny Penny paraphrasing Chisoxfan1473

by NorthSidePaulie on Jan 28, 2011 5:02 PM CST up reply actions  

Goddamn, this captures the essence of SSS.

Except he is wearing pants.

"One thought driven home is better than three left on base."

by winningugly on Jan 28, 2011 5:06 PM CST up reply actions  

i enjoy the story about f scott fitzgerald (hungover of course)

looking up from his meal in the mgm canteen to see the siamese twins arriving and having a conversation about what they should have to eat.
he ran to the commode and threw up.

by craigws on Jan 28, 2011 5:22 PM CST up reply actions  

I guess I read differently, maybe I misunderstood it.

But the way I read it, I was a dis.

Sabermetrics hurt my head, just give me the facts.

by CATDADDY47 on Jan 29, 2011 8:27 AM CST up reply actions  

Adam Dunn is the Finder of Lost Loves.

The guy at the bank doesn't care how many trophies you've got!

by 67WMAQ on Jan 28, 2011 8:29 AM CST up reply actions  

I was all set to talk about much this when I got in this morning

and was greeted to this FP article. Jim sir this content crap everyday is quite frankly……. fantastic. :-)

Does UZR take into consideration the JumpThrow?

by Tdogg on Jan 28, 2011 8:49 AM CST reply actions  

A fair amount of analysis

has now been done from a few different sources. Everyone pretty much comes to the same conclusion. Quentin is as good a bet for his 5 million numbers-wise as any.

ZiPS thinks his baseline is higher than his actual numbers because the odds of a guy with power being a true .232 BABIP (where he is the last two years), barely above the level of a pitcher, are pretty long.

Zips assessment, which I whole heartedly agree with. In essence a return to a pedestrian or avg .250 BABIP (for Quentin) is quite huge.

Does UZR take into consideration the JumpThrow?

by Tdogg on Jan 28, 2011 9:02 AM CST reply actions  

Starting pitching

Even with most of our Cooper outrage for Jackson. Zips still projects the Sox with 6 above league avg starters (Sale) included.

Does UZR take into consideration the JumpThrow?

by Tdogg on Jan 28, 2011 9:04 AM CST reply actions  

I agree with Jim's overall argument

But in regard to this-

Saddled with an aging roster that fell apart, Williams took the only sensible and responsible route — he ransacked the top shelf of the farm system to acquire older players, and then signed two 30-something relievers.

-it’s worth noting that the two biggest contributors by WAR in the lineup were relatively age-neutral acquisitions in Cabrera and Quentin (the latter only four years, the former even age positive in a sense if you take into account the draft pick gain).

On the pitching side, a lot of the success came from the development of Danks and Floyd. The 2006-2007 offseason had as much to do with the success in 2008 as the 2007-2008 offseason did. At the same time that Houston was signing the terrible Carlos Lee contract and getting older and more expensive, the White Sox made two smart pitching trades that have kept them competitive through today.

a VERY AVERAGE Sox Machine refugee

by big_fun on Jan 28, 2011 9:14 AM CST reply actions  

Hindsight is kind to it, especially with Floyd.

A lot of people expected Danks to make a jump, but Floyd showed a lot of the same problems he had in Philly. To count on him winning 15+ wouldn’t be smart.

Living through it was kind of nuts. Quentin made a lot of sense, but the others were questionable at best. He signed Dye and Pierzynski to extensions coming off their worst years, he signed Uribe off a bad year to play shortstop, then used his most expendable pitcher to get another shortstop. Selling the farm for Swisher when he was redundant defensively, and not carving out a spot for him. Linebrink and Dotel, etc.

He saw a window when most — maybe all — GMs would have seen a wall, that’s for sure.

THIS NEW ARRANGEMENT SHOULD BE POOTY GOO

by Jim Margalus on Jan 28, 2011 3:02 PM CST up reply actions  

Yeah, I agree that he zigs when a lot of people would zag

IIRC I had them penciled in as competing for third place with the Twins, behind the 1,000 run Tigers and the reigning ALC champion Indians.

I just don’t know how to project Kenny in the future because I do think the 2008 team won in spite of KW moves almost as much as it won because of them.

a VERY AVERAGE Sox Machine refugee

by big_fun on Jan 28, 2011 5:17 PM CST up reply actions  

huh?

Does UZR take into consideration the JumpThrow?

by Tdogg on Jan 28, 2011 9:06 PM CST up reply actions  

Does using z to tab forward through comments not working for anybody else?

I also had a problem with the RRRR post that also contained a video. Any reason a video would mess with that?

by joewho112 on Jan 28, 2011 11:19 AM CST reply actions  

its working for me.

did you have to erase a bunch of z’s to type that?
that happens to me sometimes.

who is the gentleman in the red cap making a duck/gangsta face? -OzzieMontana

by e-gus on Jan 28, 2011 11:27 AM CST up reply actions  

i did a rough estimate of the Herm effect as a post a while back

and i think it came up with 3-4 wins that Herm’s worth per season. KW’s long term average for his teams is 85. so you could argue that the doom-and-gloomsters have been wrong largely because of Herm.

Original visitors' friend in the Lancaster County area!

by colintj on Jan 28, 2011 11:41 AM CST reply actions  

Agree with this

Does Konerko’s poor UZR imply that that metric is overly range-biased for 1B?

"Hawk Harrelson: Annoying even the hearing impaired": Teahenny Penny paraphrasing Chisoxfan1473

by NorthSidePaulie on Jan 28, 2011 12:24 PM CST up reply actions  

The UZR is interesting for a couple of reasons

1 — Because the scouting reports were along the same lines as Tyler Flowers’. Some people thought Dunn looked far more comfortable — not good, but not a liability — and others thought he was a disaster who should never wear a glove. It’s hard to tell what people saw, and UZR makes a strong statement for the former camp.

2 — Because the difference in the metrics is similar to the gain made from Mark Teahen to Omar Vizquel, and that was visible.

It’s not confusing “interesting” with “meaningful,” but it’s such a weird divergence from previous trends that I want to know what it actually looks like. If the range readings are legit, then I’d guess it’d turn out like 2008, when Swisher filled in. He got to more balls, but watching him fall over backwards trying to make picks wasn’t inspiring.

That said, if Dunn needs a weekly start, sometimes two, to meet those projections, I can’t argue against it.

THIS NEW ARRANGEMENT SHOULD BE POOTY GOO

by Jim Margalus on Jan 28, 2011 2:49 PM CST up reply actions  

Dang, man.
i thought that was common knowledge by now.

Who p p’d in your cheeriostrix this morning? ;)

Take your whosh like a man, dammit.
by RWShow on Oct 28, 2010 10:33 PM EDT

by Shoeless In SC on Jan 29, 2011 12:39 AM CST up reply actions  

excellent

Does UZR take into consideration the JumpThrow?

by Tdogg on Jan 28, 2011 2:06 PM CST up reply actions  

Let's just hope Dunn doesn't go the Toby Hall route in ST when he's playing in the field.

I cannot answer any more questions for you today. I has wickeds gas from drink too manys redbull.

by Marlafar on Jan 28, 2011 3:19 PM CST up reply actions  

I think that Guillen will end up with a "comittee" at third

I believe nobody has won the third base position, and probably the Spring Training won’t uncover that…. Teahen does have something in his favor. He’s a lefty hitter, and he does hit (or use to hit) better than what we could expect from Morel…. but nobody can’t tell… Maybe Morel will become a Joe Crede….and I rather have Crede’s bat than Teahen/Morel/Viciedo’s bats. Time will tell…third base is the more volatile position in the Sox lineup right now.

by JofpGallagher on Jan 28, 2011 5:20 PM CST up reply actions  

and yet they want to give teahen a chance

I DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT IS DON'T ASK ME!!!!!!!!! ONE IN A MILLION!

by pierzynskirules on Jan 28, 2011 5:35 PM CST up reply actions  

if teahen outplays morel,

then i am fine with that, because it means he’ll be playing to at least a league average.

by craigws on Jan 28, 2011 5:39 PM CST up reply actions  

hmm i can't wait to see if that happens

I DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT IS DON'T ASK ME!!!!!!!!! ONE IN A MILLION!

by pierzynskirules on Jan 28, 2011 5:45 PM CST up reply actions  

and if he loses it

vizquel, not teahen, is next in line. they’ll say all the wonderful things so morel doesn’t get a big head and teahen doesn’t sulk. but the club’s intentions with these players was fairly obvious based on where they played in september.

by larry on Jan 28, 2011 5:55 PM CST up reply actions  

i hope morel is much better at getting on base than crede ever was

When I was a kid, I didn't want to be a doctor or a fireman. I wanted to be Super Mario. It's the most literal pipe dream I've ever had.

by U-God on Jan 28, 2011 5:35 PM CST up reply actions  

when I think of 3b, I think obp!

If is is one handed shitting. by winningugly

by mick10 on Jan 28, 2011 6:26 PM CST up reply actions  

When I think of 3B, I think of...

the stuff we can’t post anymore.

Take your whosh like a man, dammit.
by RWShow on Oct 28, 2010 10:33 PM EDT

by Shoeless In SC on Jan 29, 2011 12:42 AM CST up reply actions  

scandulous! Crede was one of my alltime favorites

The only glove he needs is a batting glove. - RWShow on Adam Dunn signing.
South Side Sox Online Baseball Manager team: Houston Honorary World Series Losers

by blackoutsox on Jan 29, 2011 1:07 AM CST up reply actions  

go look at his career OBP

it was awful

When I was a kid, I didn't want to be a doctor or a fireman. I wanted to be Super Mario. It's the most literal pipe dream I've ever had.

by U-God on Jan 29, 2011 11:22 AM CST up reply actions  

Back aside, there's nothing wrong with Prime Crede

If Morel turned into that, I’d be ecstatic.

THIS NEW ARRANGEMENT SHOULD BE POOTY GOO

by Jim Margalus on Jan 29, 2011 11:54 AM CST up reply actions  

Crede was great in 2006 and the last 2 months of 2005

other than that.. i was highly unimpressed. It wasn’t so much because of his on base percentage as it was his pop ups to 2nd base though.

Kenwo4life=ratings

by KenWo4LiFe on Jan 29, 2011 12:10 PM CST up reply actions  

So his prime was a bit limited

but he had one. At least he had a prime!

"One thought driven home is better than three left on base."

by winningugly on Jan 29, 2011 1:26 PM CST up reply actions  

i guess i just hope for better out of morel

the power and glove were great, but damn, when your career best OBP was .323 it leaves so much to desire.

When I was a kid, I didn't want to be a doctor or a fireman. I wanted to be Super Mario. It's the most literal pipe dream I've ever had.

by U-God on Jan 29, 2011 12:33 PM CST up reply actions  

Prepare to be disappointed in Morel.

Crede was a 4-WAR player in his prime. You’re making too much of one number.

THIS NEW ARRANGEMENT SHOULD BE POOTY GOO

by Jim Margalus on Jan 29, 2011 12:48 PM CST up reply actions  

and even if you do like that one number

pinning your hopes on morel having a higher one is probably not a great idea.

MiLB lines:

morel .305/.354/.464
crede .291/.352/.462

by larry on Jan 29, 2011 1:01 PM CST up reply actions  

if morel is crede with a robo back

ill buy his jersey

The only glove he needs is a batting glove. - RWShow on Adam Dunn signing.
South Side Sox Online Baseball Manager team: Houston Honorary World Series Losers

by blackoutsox on Jan 30, 2011 12:03 AM CST up reply actions  

--

"I never say one bad thing about those stupid fucking Cubs fans. Not a single word about those mother-shitting pieces of fuck"

by onlysoxfaninbasel on Jan 29, 2011 3:29 AM CST up reply actions  

I don't think you will see Teabag

at 3rd much this year.

Does UZR take into consideration the JumpThrow?

by Tdogg on Jan 28, 2011 9:08 PM CST up reply actions  

can I get a guarantee?

I DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT IS DON'T ASK ME!!!!!!!!! ONE IN A MILLION!

by pierzynskirules on Jan 28, 2011 9:10 PM CST up reply actions  

You got it

Does UZR take into consideration the JumpThrow?

by Tdogg on Jan 28, 2011 9:12 PM CST up reply actions  

A move by Morel into the White Sox starting nine means the 29-year-old Teahen would return to a super-utility role played for parts of his five years with the Royals. That change still should guarantee 350 or 400 at-bats for Teahen, especially with the White Sox figuring to be careful using Morel against tough right-handed pitchers.

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20110127&content_id=16517482&vkey=news_cws&c_id=cws

by larry on Jan 29, 2011 9:39 AM CST up reply actions  

Want a good sign that Teahen is persona non grata?

His name did not come up once at Sox Fest. Lots of talk about B-Mo.

The funny thing is that Teahen and Kotsay were the big stars last year. Now, Teahen was nowhere to be found, and Kotsay’s shit was on the discout rack.

The guy at the bank doesn't care how many trophies you've got!

by 67WMAQ on Jan 29, 2011 9:11 AM CST up reply actions  

I thought it was funny that Teahen was introduced

and had one photo session. that was it. no autograph/seminar appearances. just a photo session friday evening and then out the door. lol. you’re right. if thats not a sign that the dude is on the outs i don’t know what is.

Kenwo4life=ratings

by KenWo4LiFe on Jan 29, 2011 9:14 AM CST up reply actions  

Kotsay was a star?

I’ve lost all faith in our fans. Tell me that was a typo.

by Grinder in Training on Jan 29, 2011 2:20 PM CST up reply actions  

He was on a bunch of panels last year.

The guy at the bank doesn't care how many trophies you've got!

by 67WMAQ on Jan 29, 2011 3:06 PM CST up reply actions  

Farm systems are overrated

With the consistent failure rate of “cant miss” prospects in the majors. I’m glad KW spends more time signing and trading for veteran players. He has shown a consistent pattern in his years as a GM of gutting the farm system for veteran players, then shipping those players out for more propsects and then the cycle begins again. What began as “blockbuster” trades for the likes of David Wells and Todd Ritchie, have now made the White Sox legitamite players year in and year out for the best players in MLB. If you look back at KW’s trade history the astonishing thing besides the shear number of trades and players involved is in hindsight how very little KW actually gave up among players thought at the time to be “top prospects”.

by superjorge1 on Jan 30, 2011 3:46 PM CST reply actions  

fns

The only glove he needs is a batting glove. - RWShow on Adam Dunn signing.
South Side Sox Online Baseball Manager team: Houston Honorary World Series Losers

by blackoutsox on Jan 30, 2011 7:32 PM CST up reply actions  

To a degree

but we have had shit in the minors for quite some time which aided the lack of “paying” for the constant trades. The team has drafted better lately. Shipping off players like Hudson or Beckham is quite a bit different. Also better farm systems contribute to parent teams’ late runs from a playoff perspective (relief in particular).

So no I don’t have a desire to be the KC Royals or TB a few years ago- that is sucking our way to that type of system, but there is little value in being 28-30th consistently.

Does UZR take into consideration the JumpThrow?

by Tdogg on Jan 31, 2011 8:57 AM CST up reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Welcome to South Side Sox! Please check our new standards and guide to FanPosts/FanShots before posting.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

61y5zkwuutl__sl500__small
The Ballad of bobpuller
Archerme_small
The Padded Cell: Wait of the World (part 1 of 2)
Tedlangue_small
RRRR: Facebook and socialization
Small
Reliever-to-Starter Conversions Update
Pair-rose-colored__szo0279_small
A Quarter for your thoughts?

Recent FanPosts

Small
Is Nate Jones for Real?*
Homersimpson_small
BMO 2027: The Sox Machine Cometh
Img_2130_small
RRRR: Lemon drops melting
Deadhorse_small
White Sox Minor League Update
Pair-rose-colored__szo0279_small
CDM Challenge Update (Second Tier Status 1/5 in)

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

FanShots

Quick hits of video, photos, quotes, chats, links and lists that you find around the web.

Recent FanShots

White Sox offer free tickets to CPD officers
Empty Seats
A true hitting guru can fix anything
Tweet from Jake Peavy
The White Sox's Black Hole Problem, And Other Observations From A Day Game
Get to the choppa!
Dan Rubenstein heads to Columbus, Ohio to meet Hall of Fame legends Ricky Henderson, Frank Thomas,...
Sox Are Shiftless MFers!
Jake Peavy, AL Pitcher of the Month for the April, is back to 2007 form. While outperforming his preseason projections, is he really up there with the best in baseball? Short answer: yes.

See full post on Beyond the Box Score
A 2 part podcast with Oney Guillen (Ozzie's Son)

+ New FanShot All FanShots >

Yahoo_full_count

Managing Editor

Tedlangue_small Jim Margalus

Editors

Deadhorse_small larry

Sealab_murphy_small colintj

Img_2130_small homesickalien

Omar_small U-God

Authors

10083hb_small KenWo4LiFe

Archerme_small Uribe Down