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KenWo's Corner- Hopefully this history doesn't repeat itself

The White Sox have had a great offseason.  Somehow Kenny found a way to bring in one of the most feared free agent hitters in Adam Dunn, while also being able to keep our own free agent slugger, Paul Konerko.  Although we lost J.J. Putz and Bobby Jenks, we were able to bring in Jesse Crain to team with Matt Thornton and exciting youngsters Sergio Santos and Chris Sale (if they go that route).  We have a very strong 5 man rotation, and a very formidable lineup.  It should be an awesome summer on the South Side of Chicago.   At Soxfest last weekend everyone was very excited about the upcoming season.  Then I got the opportunity to see one of my favorite relievers the Sox ever had and I remembered feeling this way before - and ultimately was left feeling disappointed, let down and questioning my loyalty for the only baseball team I ever loved.  

Star-divide

The man I saw at Soxfest was Roberto Hernandez and the year I immediately remembered was 1997.  There are some similarities to this offseason and before that season.  Albert Belle was the biggest name on the market and Jerry remarkably opened up the purse strings to acquire him.  They also brought in a horse of a pitcher in Jamie Navarro and a former Cy Young winner in Doug Drabek to replace the departing Alex Fernandez and Kevin Tapani.  I remember being so excited to see this team when the year started. With a middle of the order that featured Frank Thomas, Belle, Robin Ventura and Harold Baines... how could we possibly lose?  

Unfortunately, things didn't start out well in Spring Training when Robin Ventura broke and dislocated his ankle. Ventura was thought to be done for the season.  Chris Snopek would take over 3rd base and would really struggle posting a .218/.263.319 line with 5 home runs.  

Meanwhile, Ventura was making an astounding comeback.  Even though his ankle looked like Joe Theismann's on Monday Night Football in Spring Training, Rockin' Robin made a triumphant return on July 24th vs. Texas. The Sox won the game on a double by Ventura and moved within 3.5 games of Cleveland, even though the record stood at a pedestrian 51-49 after 100 games.  Unfortunately, the Sox lost the next 3 games.  Those would be the only 4 games of the season we would see the dreaded middle of the order of Ventura, Thomas, Belle and Baines as Baines was traded to Baltimore on July 29th.  

On the afternoon of the 31st, however, the Sox would do something that would have everyone scratching their heads.  It was announced that Roberto Hernandez, Wilson Alvarez and Danny Darwin had been traded to the San Francisco Giants for prospects Keith Foulke, Bobby Howry, Mike Caruso, Lorenzo Barcelo, Ken Vining and Brian Manning even though the team was just 3.5 games out.  

Hernandez was having his usual fine season with the Sox, posting an ERA of 2.44 with 27 saves and an 8.8 K/9. Alvarez was the teams best starter with a 9-8 record, a 3.03 ERA and 110 K's over 145.2 innings.  Darwin was an aging veteran but was pitching well at the time going 4-8 with a 4.13 ERA over 113.1 innings.  The other 4 guys who made at least 10 starts that year all had an ERA over 5.00 ( Navarro, Drabek, James Baldwin and Scott Eyre).  

Surprisingly, when the season ended, the Sox finished in 2nd place at 80-81, only 6 games behind the 86-75 Indians.  One has to think that if the middle of the order had the opportunity to shine and they kept their 2 best starters and their closer we may have given the eventual World Series losers a run for their money.  The Chairman panicked though, and saw that there wasn't a massive jump in attendance or results in the early months.  So he packaged the guys who were free agents at the end of the season to stock the farm system and proclaimed that "if anyone thinks this team can catch Cleveland they're crazy".  

The problem wasn't so much the trade itself, but the timing of it.  True the team was around .500 the entire season, but they were so close.  Hernandez went on to pitch another 10 years and is currently 12th all time in saves.  Alvarez signed a big contract with Tampa in 1998 (as did Hernandez), but never lived up to it.  He had a good 2003 with the Dodgers and retired after the '05 season.  Darwin stuck with the Giants for one more season to close out his 21 year career.  Keith Foulke and Bobby Howry went on to become successful relief pitchers- helping the Sox claim the division crown in 2000, Caruso had a good rookie year and then struggled mightily in 1999 and only resurfaced again for 12 games in 2002 with the Royals.  Barcelo (66 IP) and Vining (6.2 IP) didn't make an impact in the majors for whatever reason and Manning never made it at all.  One has to wonder though, could the Sox have gotten it together in 1997?  We will never know.  

With the White Sox putting up a payroll in excess of 120 million dollars this year, and having plenty of guys who are free agents at seasons end, will the same thing happen?  Mark Buehrle, Edwin Jackson, Matt Thornton and Juan Pierre are all guys who's contracts are up at the end of the season.  Getting off to a good start is absolutely mandatory.  If the Sox struggle out of the gate and attendance isn't much different than years past, will they wave the flag again?  I hope not, but I didn't think it would happen in 1997 either. 

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I don't think so. Different GMs.

Kenny won’t hit the eject switch so early. If history tells us anything, he’ll likely trade some of the already weak farm for some help.

Take your whosh like a man, dammit.
by RWShow on Oct 28, 2010 10:33 PM EDT

by Shoeless In SC on Jan 29, 2011 12:58 AM CST reply actions  

MOAR TONY PENA

The only glove he needs is a batting glove. - RWShow on Adam Dunn signing.
South Side Sox Online Baseball Manager team: Houston Honorary World Series Losers

by blackoutsox on Jan 29, 2011 1:10 AM CST up reply actions  

i know kenny won't want to do it..but if the order comes from above it will happen.

jerry might get a little twitchy if he sees his 125 million dollar club struggling early.

Kenwo4life=ratings

by KenWo4LiFe on Jan 29, 2011 8:33 AM CST up reply actions  

It seems to me of late that he's let KW make more and more decisions

I think he’d let KW try to improve first. If the team still flopped, then by the end of the year, I think he’d push for pulling the plug.

I think he’d like to avoid the wrath of the fans from pulling another white flag, and the teasing, chiding, whatever you want to call it, from rival fans and execs.

Take your whosh like a man, dammit.
by RWShow on Oct 28, 2010 10:33 PM EDT

by Shoeless In SC on Jan 29, 2011 8:54 AM CST up reply actions  

This has been another Casey KenWo Kasem American Top 40: The 90's.

Keep your feet on the ground and keep reaching for the stars.

who is the gentleman in the red cap making a duck/gangsta face? -OzzieMontana

by e-gus on Jan 29, 2011 2:58 AM CST reply actions   1 recs

its always fun to see posts you vaguely recall posting upon seeing them the next day.

who is the gentleman in the red cap making a duck/gangsta face? -OzzieMontana

by e-gus on Jan 29, 2011 11:24 AM CST up reply actions  

it seems I ordered a vintage rage against the machine t-shirt on ebay

just minutes after this.

who is the gentleman in the red cap making a duck/gangsta face? -OzzieMontana

by e-gus on Jan 31, 2011 3:01 PM CST up reply actions  

As soon as he signs the BILL OF LADING.

"My role hads not changed: Old punching bag." -winningugly

by Uribe Down on Jan 31, 2011 3:37 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

Awesome.

"It's like an elephant rodeo in there."

by RWShow on Jan 31, 2011 9:05 PM CST up reply actions  

I had a good one a few nights ago-

Ended up with a VHS copy of a really old black and white film – The Moon is Blue.

busy weaving laurel wreath for k dawg and JR. These guys are straight up gangsta this year. -LT_sox_fan on Dec 15, 2010

by South Side Expat on Jan 31, 2011 3:50 PM CST up reply actions  

I also think that the fans believe in this team more than they have other teams

of recent vintage. Collectively, Sox fans have a better grasp for a ‘real’ contender, it seems. People generally seem to be buying into this team.

And I think, although I was only 10 at the time, that Adam Dunn is a better signing than Albert Belle was. Less asshole/steroid concerns…whatever that’s worth.

Your 2011 Chicago White Sox: Donkey Kong!!!

by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Jan 29, 2011 3:25 AM CST reply actions  

when we signed belle there was no steroid concerns. nobody thought/cared about that stuff back then.

asshole concerns? yeah some had that. albert belle was a better offensive player than adam dunn though. plus we had frank thomas! quite possibly the best 2 hitters in the league. throw in ventura and baines and it really was supposed to be an impressive lineup.

Kenwo4life=ratings

by KenWo4LiFe on Jan 29, 2011 8:31 AM CST up reply actions  

i'm with kenwo

plus, albert belle ended up being a great signing, since we only paid for the 1st two years of his contract when he amassed like 9-10 WAR.

"I never say one bad thing about those stupid fucking Cubs fans. Not a single word about those mother-shitting pieces of fuck"

by onlysoxfaninbasel on Jan 29, 2011 9:43 AM CST up reply actions  

2006 calling.

who is the gentleman in the red cap making a duck/gangsta face? -OzzieMontana

by e-gus on Jan 29, 2011 11:20 AM CST up reply actions  

regarding 2nd half's first point?

"I never say one bad thing about those stupid fucking Cubs fans. Not a single word about those mother-shitting pieces of fuck"

by onlysoxfaninbasel on Jan 29, 2011 11:49 AM CST up reply actions  

I think i was more excited about 2006 than this year.

and then it all fell apart. and i cried. and then greg walker told me at Morton’s Steakhouse in Minnesota during the last series of the season that they had a deal in place for Soriano but Lance Broadway couldn’t crack 90 MPH and the Nats backed out. And i have hated Broadway ever since.

Kenwo4life=ratings

by KenWo4LiFe on Jan 29, 2011 11:59 AM CST up reply actions  

If you really wanna quit your job...

Write an autobiography. I’ll buy at least two copies.

busy weaving laurel wreath for k dawg and JR. These guys are straight up gangsta this year. -LT_sox_fan on Dec 15, 2010

by South Side Expat on Jan 29, 2011 12:23 PM CST up reply actions  

ill buy a crate

The only glove he needs is a batting glove. - RWShow on Adam Dunn signing.
South Side Sox Online Baseball Manager team: Houston Honorary World Series Losers

by blackoutsox on Jan 30, 2011 12:00 AM CST up reply actions  

Edwin Jackson would be favorite to depart IIMHO

I think it all depends on how Peavy will help and of course, the situation of the Sox in the standings. If Peavy comes back earlier, the team may stick with Sale as starter and trade Edwin to free payroll money. This would be very stupid as we would have lost Dan Hudson for whatever we can get back from Edwin…oh boy…how much I dislike that Jackson-Hudson deal…awful trade…I think Buehrle is gonna have a great season typical of players in their last year of contract. Pierre may not be re-signed, but he may not be traded. I don’t believe you can get a lot from Pierre in a trade, so we may be better off keeping him until the end of the season. Thornton….we should keep him as I believe he will be the closer for this team.

by JofpGallagher on Jan 29, 2011 8:34 AM CST reply actions  

if we are 10 games back i have no problem with them trading anyone.

but if we are 5 back or less id like to see them given a chance- instead of trading thornton, buehrle and jackson for 6 prospects.

Kenwo4life=ratings

by KenWo4LiFe on Jan 29, 2011 8:50 AM CST up reply actions  

Right now...I disagree

But I could change my mind as the season moves on. Dan Hudson numbers with Arizona were eye popping ( a “closer” WHIP of 0.84 for a starter?…you kidding me?). I think the upside Dan Hudson has is immense….and the price is low. Jackson only has more experience than Hudson. We know what to expect from Jackson. I guess that right now, experience/stability vs potential/uncertainty has Jackson winning this one…..one thing was for sure…comparing Jackson-Hudson’s both performances with Arizona and Hudson was superb…. you say that Jackson will bring in more than Hudson…but…I never wanted to trade Hudson to begin with, but what is done is done.

by JofpGallagher on Jan 29, 2011 9:36 AM CST up reply actions  

How so?

Scott Boras clients take away a lot of the leverage of a team trying to trade them.

THIS NEW ARRANGEMENT SHOULD BE POOTY GOO

by Jim Margalus on Jan 29, 2011 10:01 AM CST up reply actions  

I guess I'm not as sold on Hudson as most here.

I think the Sox got the better arm in that deal and teams will always pay a premium for quality starting pitching, regardless of who the agent is.

If is is one handed shitting. by winningugly

by mick10 on Jan 29, 2011 10:26 AM CST up reply actions  

Perhaps...only perhaps

Jackson is better than Hudson…but I have my doubts. Only time will tell. However, in the worse scenario, I think both pitchers are even. I don’t think Jackson is much much much better than Hudson (I believe the opposite)… an important point is that Jackson earns almost 5 millions, and Hudson just minimum salary. Jackson will have to outperform Hudson by 4 millions worth to justify this trade. I just don’t see that happening. Those 4 millions could have brought another player to the Sox…another good reliever…or outfielder….maybe a 6th starter….or maybe a $$$ cushion for July trade deadline.

by JofpGallagher on Jan 29, 2011 11:26 AM CST up reply actions  

i think the money is fine for someone who is a very good no#3 starter.

also, what makes you think they’d ever trade jackson to install sale as a starter for the entire season?
why handicap the team like that?

by craigws on Jan 29, 2011 11:28 AM CST up reply actions  

Like I said..it depends on Peavy and the standing

If Peavy comes back strong and the Sox are solid on first, then I see no reason a trade can happen…If Sale commences the season as starter, and he becomes a fine rookie starter (I don’t see why not), then he may gain leverage to keep him as starter and develop him as such. If Peavy comes back strong, then Edwin Jackson becomes expendable. What makes me think all this?…well, nothing really…i am just a fan, and provide my point of view from a non expert position.

by JofpGallagher on Jan 29, 2011 11:34 AM CST up reply actions  

sale is going to have a bunch of tough starts

if they throw him right in, i don’t think they can afford for him to go through that at a major league level this season. back to AAA if they want him to start. from what has been coming out of the team (besides coop) it seems like he’ll switch to the bullpen.
jackson is worth more than sale to a team that wants to win a division.

by craigws on Jan 29, 2011 11:56 AM CST up reply actions  

sale is going to have a bunch of tough starts

if they throw him right in, i don’t think they can afford for him to go through that at a major league level this season. back to AAA if they want him to start. from what has been coming out of the team (besides coop) it seems like he’ll switch to the bullpen.
jackson is worth more than sale to a team that wants to win a division.

by craigws on Jan 29, 2011 11:56 AM CST up reply actions  

I love what they did with $4mil extra last year.

busy weaving laurel wreath for k dawg and JR. These guys are straight up gangsta this year. -LT_sox_fan on Dec 15, 2010

by South Side Expat on Jan 29, 2011 11:46 AM CST up reply actions  

Big difference between then and now?

The pitching staff was horrendous. Alvarez and Darwin were the only pitchers who could be considered good. The rest had ERA’s over 5.

As far as position players go:

Beckham/Ramirez/Morel is better than Durham/Ozzie/Snopek

Outfield: Belle over Pierre, Cameron and Rios are a wash, as is Quentin and Dave Martinez.

DH – Dunn over Baines. Hands down.

Plus – Jerry’s not going to pull the pin unless it’s absolutely needed. He’s in his mid-70’s. He wants another one before he decides to move on.

The guy at the bank doesn't care how many trophies you've got!

by 67WMAQ on Jan 29, 2011 8:59 AM CST reply actions  

i agree on the pitching staff.

but the indians pitching staff was very suspect too. each team ended the year with a 4.73 ERA. keeping our guys and maybe making one move to add may have been enough.

I also don’t know about Beckham being better than Durham. He is in the hype department but he has yet to show that on the field.

Kenwo4life=ratings

by KenWo4LiFe on Jan 29, 2011 9:05 AM CST up reply actions  

The Sox shouldn't have pulled the plug

but this team is better than that one. Of course Minnesota and Detroit are also better than the competitors then.

Does UZR take into consideration the JumpThrow?

by Tdogg on Jan 29, 2011 10:39 AM CST up reply actions  

the Twins were terrible back then

ah the good ol days

who is the gentleman in the red cap making a duck/gangsta face? -OzzieMontana

by e-gus on Jan 29, 2011 11:23 AM CST up reply actions  

well that 97 indians team ended up being awfully close to winning the world series.

Thome, Sandy Alomar, Matt Williams, Manny Ramirez and Dave Justice weren’t that bad themselves.

Kenwo4life=ratings

by KenWo4LiFe on Jan 29, 2011 11:47 AM CST up reply actions  

playoffs are a crapshoot

The pitching on that Indians team just wasn’t very good

Does UZR take into consideration the JumpThrow?

by Tdogg on Jan 29, 2011 11:52 AM CST up reply actions  

no it wasn't.

which is why I would have liked to see the season play out with Ventura back. I am still disgusted over that season- even though in the long run Foulke and Howry both ended up being pretty good.

Kenwo4life=ratings

by KenWo4LiFe on Jan 29, 2011 11:55 AM CST up reply actions  

Kenny won't do it!

Kenny is way too competetive to give up on this team, Remember we are ALL IN this year. I hope Jerry sticks around for a while because before he came to town we had about 10 years of pure chaos.

by soxfan50 on Jan 29, 2011 11:15 AM CST reply actions  

Calm down, KenWo.

Past performance is no guarantee of future performance. Also, JR is much older and liable to have a longer spending leash – you can’t take it with you. (And he’s not paying Michael Jordan, either.)

Besides. Eastbound and Down is starting a new season. You’ll soon have an outlet for all that passion.

"One thought driven home is better than three left on base."

by winningugly on Jan 29, 2011 1:14 PM CST reply actions  

3rd base

Dodgers writer on MLB.com saying that we’re one of the teams interested in Eric Chavez. I thought 3rd base was between Morel & Teahen, but just went on MLBTR and saw that, not sure what to think.

by walterfan34 on Jan 29, 2011 5:23 PM CST reply actions  

you realize that it's not 2005 anymore, right?

they guy has played, what, 60 games in the last three seasons. looks like a real candidate to me.

by larry on Jan 29, 2011 5:53 PM CST up reply actions  

no

he would bring more fans

The only glove he needs is a batting glove. - RWShow on Adam Dunn signing.
South Side Sox Online Baseball Manager team: Houston Honorary World Series Losers

by blackoutsox on Jan 30, 2011 10:10 AM CST up reply actions  

this is true

2011 WhiteSox Baseball: we're all in

by OznCoop on Jan 30, 2011 2:39 PM CST up reply actions  

I'm sure it was the trees, and not the thought of deep throbbing massive purple veined Jeter cock

that distracted them in the playoffs.

busy weaving laurel wreath for k dawg and JR. These guys are straight up gangsta this year. -LT_sox_fan on Dec 15, 2010

by South Side Expat on Jan 30, 2011 4:59 AM CST up reply actions  

uh..........

"when the seagulls follow the trawler, it's because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea." ~~cantona

by BuehrleMan on Jan 30, 2011 8:23 AM CST up reply actions   1 recs

Hey, they are the ones who dig on the Pavstache, I'm just sayin'

busy weaving laurel wreath for k dawg and JR. These guys are straight up gangsta this year. -LT_sox_fan on Dec 15, 2010

by South Side Expat on Jan 30, 2011 10:37 AM CST up reply actions  

Kenny? White Flag?

I think he’d be more likely to trade Morel, Viciedo and Sale for Bobby Abreu if the Sox were only 9 games out on July 31st.

by GrabSomeBench on Jan 30, 2011 3:57 AM CST reply actions  

sad but true

who is the gentleman in the red cap making a duck/gangsta face? -OzzieMontana

by e-gus on Jan 30, 2011 11:22 AM CST up reply actions  

not really.

i mean, where would abreu play? i’d say scott rolen is far more likely. i would, however, insist on danny richar coming back in any such deal.

by larry on Jan 30, 2011 11:41 AM CST up reply actions  

don't forget nick masset

Take your whosh like a man, dammit.
by RWShow on Oct 28, 2010 10:33 PM EDT

by Shoeless In SC on Jan 30, 2011 1:06 PM CST up reply actions  

Gio.

Plus, Freddy signs elsewhere, then we trade for him.

"One thought driven home is better than three left on base."

by winningugly on Jan 30, 2011 2:51 PM CST up reply actions  

Gio isn't on the Reds...

Damn it. Stay within the realm of realism here.

Take your whosh like a man, dammit.
by RWShow on Oct 28, 2010 10:33 PM EDT

by Shoeless In SC on Jan 30, 2011 5:52 PM CST up reply actions  

He means after they trade Votto for Gio.

Jesus, Shoeless. Keep up, would ya?

"It's like an elephant rodeo in there."

by RWShow on Jan 30, 2011 7:49 PM CST up reply actions  

Yeah this is a good point

Kenny is much more likely to do the opposite, trade prospects for veterans to contend when the team actually doesn’t have that much of a shot.

a VERY AVERAGE Sox Machine refugee

by big_fun on Jan 31, 2011 9:04 AM CST up reply actions  

What's not much of a shot

9 1/2 games out in June? :-)

Does UZR take into consideration the JumpThrow?

by Tdogg on Jan 31, 2011 9:49 AM CST up reply actions  

not that I liked the Jackson trade or anything

But I was sort of impressed by how quickly KW adapted to the idea that they were contending. When they were 9 1/2 out the White Sox were “open for business” and looked to be one of 2010’s earliest sellers. Kenny (correctly) wasn’t trying to add veterans to fix the team then.

a VERY AVERAGE Sox Machine refugee

by big_fun on Jan 31, 2011 11:25 AM CST up reply actions  

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