Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: Why Hockey Fans Should Root For Devils Vs. Kings

About that Nolan Ryan thing

"People bring it up," said Robin Ventura. "They're always going to bring it up. But that's the way life goes."

As you probably already guessed, Ventura was talking about his unfortunate fight with Nolan Ryan. I pulled that quote from a Chicago Tribune story from March 1, 1994, and, well, he wasn't wrong.

After all, when the Ventura hiring was announced on Twitter, "Nolan Ryan" became a trending topic. Multiple outlets sought Ryan's comments on Ventura's new job. And with the two teams set to meet on Opening Day next season, it's not going to die anytime soon. In fact, it'll probably die after we do.

Since we're going to become far too familiar with that moment in time, I figured it might be best to talk about the circumstances surrounding Aug. 4, 1993, and what happened afterward (spoiler alert: The Sox win the division).

Star-divide

While Ventura was ejected, Ryan stayed on the mound, picked off pinch-runner Craig Grebeck and then faced the minimum over his final four innings. His final line: 7 IP, 3 H, 2 ER, 1 BB, 5 K ... and the one HBP, of course.

Star-divide

 

The Sox were furious that Ryan wasn't ejected, and Ventura predicted that he wouldn't be suspended (he wasn't). Ventura cited a counterpoint from two years earlier, when Jack McDowell was ejected and suspended under similar circumstances on May 19, 1991, when Mark Whiten charged the mound and connected with a right to McDowell's left eye.

Working against McDowell was the fact that Black Jack threw behind Whiten immediately after serving up a homer to John Olerud. While Ryan's HBP was shady (Ventura hit an RBI single in his first at-bat), waiting a full turn through the lineup obscured any intention well enough.

(Whiten was ejected, too, with a 1-0 count. Guess who took his place and finished the at-bat? Kenny Williams!)

Star-divide

The Sox were familiar with Ryan's brand of vigilante justice. On Aug. 10, 1991, Grebeck and Ozzie Guillen hit back-to-back homers off Ryan. When they met one week later, Ryan drilled Grebeck with the first pitch he saw.

Star-divide

Ellis Burks, who did not start for the White Sox on Fight Night, had a previous run-in with Ryan as a member of the Boston Red Sox in 1989. After hitting two homers the previous night, Ryan drilled Burks in the earflap during his first at-bat.

And when they faced each other five days later, Ryan threw another high-and-tight fastball that buzzed Burks' face. Burks charged the mound, but was restrained by the catcher. Neither player was ejected, but Burks got his revenge when he finished the at-bat with a single and game-winning RBI. -- Boston Globe, May 6, 1989.

Star-divide

Ventura was the only batter Ryan hit that year, which also made Ventura the last of Ryan's 158 major-league HBPs.

Star-divide

The White Sox and Ryan engaged in a war of words afterward. The Sox called Ryan a headhunter who was protected by Major League Baseball, while Ryan basically dismissed the Sox for being crybabies after losing a fight and a ballgame. -- Sun-Times, Aug. 6, 1993.

Star-divide

Ventura appealed the suspension, but was convinced to drop his appeal for strategic reasons. He missed the first two games of a series against the Yankees, but he also missed batting against Jimmy Key and Jim Abbott, a pair of lefties that gave Ventura a tough time. -- Sun-Times, Aug. 26, 1993.

Star-divide

When he came back, Ventura finished the season by hitting .297/.408/.469, all well above his season numbers.

Star-divide

Ryan was supposed to face the White Sox on Sept. 24, but Texas manager reshuffled the rotation, saying, "I don't want to give [the Sox] any extra incentives." The Rangers were 3 1/2 games back at the time, and Kennedy said if the Sox beat Ryan, it would have given the Sox an emotional lift that Texas couldn't recover from.

That sounds like defeatism that made the White Sox-Twins rivalry a one-way affair, especially when Johan Santana took the mound. But Gene Lamont offered a different idea: "I just don't think Ryan 's one of the guys he wants pitching against us," he said. "I think he has other guys he feels can do better."

It didn't matter. When the two teams met on the day Ryan was supposed to start, the Sox held a six-game lead with 10 games to play. They won the division by eight games. -- Sun-Times, Sept. 16, 1993.

Star-divide

Even if Kennedy kept the original schedule intact, Ryan might not have lasted until Sept. 24. His last start ever on Sept. 22 was one he'd like to forget, as he failed to retire any of the six batters he faced due to a torn elbow ligament.

The White Sox didn't pursue the matter further as the September series with Texas drew near. McDowell could've rubbed it in if he wanted to -- among the harsh words he had for Ryan through the media, these ones stood out:

"He pulls that stuff off wherever he goes. Too bad he doesn't show up for his team until the next time it's his turn to pitch. He'll be home on the ranch. You watch his team fall just short again while he shows up on the DL." -- Tribune, Sept. 26, 1993.

Star-divide

Gene Lamont earned some street cred for rushing out into the middle of the mess -- even though he didn't fare better than Ventura, getting punched and reinjuring a trick knee. But like Jerry Manuel's doorman act following the twin Tiger brawls of 2000, it was a signature moment for a manager who was often criticized for being too placid. -- Tribune, Aug. 5, 1993.

Star-divide

The Rangers were on full alert for Bo Jackson...

"I had ahold of somebody and I poked my head up and saw Bo running toward the pile," said Ranger outfielder Donald Harris. "I quick poked my head back down and tried to stay out of the way."

George W. Bush, general partner of the Rangers, was in a box seat near the Texas dugout when the brawl broke out and said he considered for a second running onto the field.

"I thought about it, but then I saw Bo coming out and decided to stay where I was," said Bush. -- Tribune, Aug. 5, 1993.

Star-divide

But that was after Ryan got out of the center. Before that point, the Rangers might have had less reason for concern, if there's anything to this:

Ryan ended up at the bottom of the pileup that followed, but protecting him, according to some sources, was none other than Chicago White Sox DH (and fellow Nike spokesman) Bo Jackson. -- Sports Illustrated, Aug. 16, 1993.

Comment 58 comments  |  3 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

I'd forgotten what a bastard Ryan was

Going in on a guy for an RBI single. Head hunting.

by Titan52 on Oct 10, 2011 12:38 PM CDT via mobile reply actions  

Nice writeup

Too bad I had to stop and come back to it after reading this phrase:

Grebeck and Ozzie Guillen hit back-to-back homers…

Brain aneurism.

by krushcuts on Oct 10, 2011 12:53 PM CDT reply actions  

i was at that game. awesome.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Oct 10, 2011 11:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

One of the reasons is to keep the hitter off the plate so you can paint the outside corner and not have the hitter have as much plate coverage

Nolan Ryan owned the outside of the plate because in his era that is what you did, pitch inside and bean people.

Off-Season Proposition Bet Tally - 1 won - 6 lost

by Rhubarb on Oct 10, 2011 1:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

the whole reason for the Marichal-Roseboro incident

… was that Koufax wouldn’t throw at people… he knew he could hurt them. So Roseboro threw the ball back to Koufax right past Marichal’s ear and the rest is history.

Ryan apparently wanted to hurt people. All the more reason to go after him.

by ruffster on Oct 10, 2011 5:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

Baseball is war for some, if you are taking it seriously as a player.

Your teammates are your brothers. The other team is taking food from your families. I have no problem with folks playing within the rules and being as intense as they want to be. Or not as intense as they want to be. You merge cultures and personalities within an occasionally violent game, get testosterone involved, and stuff happens.

I sure as hell would go after him via his team. Oh, and they might be World Series champs by the time we get to them. All the more reason.

"MY NAME IS YOANIS CESPEDEZ YOU KILLED MY FATHER" WHAT!

by winningugly on Oct 11, 2011 7:01 AM CDT up reply actions  

This.

Someone hit a homerun off you? Don’t throw a shitty pitch next time, don’t hit him.

"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"

by U-God on Oct 11, 2011 9:18 AM CDT up reply actions  

hsa has more balls than you two.

absolutely nothing wrong with a little chin music.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Oct 11, 2011 9:48 AM CDT up reply actions  

As retaliation for someone hitting your teammate, sure.

As a way of being upset that someone bested you, yes. By your logic, it would be ok to charge the mound as a hitter if you struck out.

"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"

by U-God on Oct 11, 2011 9:54 AM CDT up reply actions  

hell, he might have even gotten into shape at some point.

Some people get so rich they lose all respect for humanity. That's how rich I want to be.

by MarketMaker on Oct 11, 2011 4:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

we're talking about throwing at people with the sole intention of hitting them, not throwing inside to stop a batter from crowding the plate.

i had a teammate who was often wild. shoulder was always flying open. often hit batters but never did it purposefully, he just kind of sucked. one game, he hit a batter in the ass. the opposing pitcher was a stud. he went on a few years later to pitch D1 after a juco stint. threw pretty hard and had very good control. the inning after his teammate was hit, he retired the first two batters. he threw at the head of the third batter. broke the guy’s jaw, multiple facial fractures, a seriously fucked up scene. guy had multiple surgeries, can’t remember how many, like five or something, over the next year. his face is obviously still fucked up. when asked why he threw at the guy, the pitcher replied that he thought that’s what he was supposed to do because that’s what he’s heard was right and saw major leaguers do. that’s the result of this kind of assclownery.

by larry on Oct 11, 2011 10:26 AM CDT up reply actions  

i got hit in the back of the neck right under the helmet. i went down. had to leave the game.

the next time i faced that pitcher i broke his hand. i hope he still feels it to this day. hoping that when he carries his groceries in… when its about to rain… when he is fingering his broad… he remembers the day that he stepped into the box against the KenWo.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Oct 11, 2011 11:46 AM CDT up reply actions  

that being said a few years later we ended up being teammates and he was my catcher.

he was pretty good too. he admitted to throwing at me on purpose. i asked him how his hand felt.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Oct 11, 2011 11:48 AM CDT up reply actions  

screencap or it didn't happen.

it just makes me weak in the knees the way gomez neither fixed or removed his crooked ass helmet after that puntoslide. -Trooper on Oct 5, 2011

by South Side Expat on Oct 11, 2011 1:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

lol i will do this when i'm at my parents house next.

they have my trophies still i think. at least they better.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Oct 11, 2011 1:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

That explains - or partially explains - your position.

I understand. I would probably think the same way had I seen that.

"MY NAME IS YOANIS CESPEDEZ YOU KILLED MY FATHER" WHAT!

by winningugly on Oct 12, 2011 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

no, i know.

just intentionally throwing at someone cause they tagged one on you just seems childish.

by obnoxious american on Oct 10, 2011 1:27 PM CDT reply actions  

Black shoes, white gloves, black hat.

Cadillac.

Yeah, the boy’s a time bomb.

FNR.

by Secret Chimp on Oct 10, 2011 1:42 PM CDT reply actions  

And he's large.

Oh how I remember the days when people used to say “Punk’s not dead.” Now twice removed, and it’s better.

“Time Bomb” is fantastic.

by Secret Chimp on Oct 10, 2011 1:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

Thanks for the compiling of details and circumstances.

158 HBP seems like an awful lot for a pitcher. But it certainly seems like Ryan’s standards for throwing at a guy’s head were pretty low.

"Don Cooper, to the O.R! We have a bleeder!" - SkanchoDanza

by homesickalien on Oct 10, 2011 1:50 PM CDT reply actions  

Well in his defense, at least 37 of those guys winked at him.

"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"

by U-God on Oct 10, 2011 1:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

Just about one HBP for every two homers allowed.

But he didn’t give up many homers, either.

The policeman who jumps from a bridge to a plane is Detective John McClane, a.k.a. Bruce Willis. He’s just the star of the whole movie series and stuff, no big deal or anything. -Cruiser

by Uribe Down on Oct 10, 2011 2:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

i like this. can anyone verify this account?

Some people get so rich they lose all respect for humanity. That's how rich I want to be.

by MarketMaker on Oct 10, 2011 4:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'll see what the archives turn up tonight.

Here’s hoping!

Whales! Squids! Sharks! They're everywhere! Hello, I am Poseidon! Now, when people told me I was crazy that thinly sliced roast beef would be a delicious fast-food option, I knew it was the greatest idea, and you can thank me later for Arby's.

by Jim Margalus on Oct 10, 2011 4:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well Shucks

Thanks.

Wait, was that a back-handed compliment? Or a fore-handed insult?

by Landfill on Oct 10, 2011 6:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

Anti-Ozzie

After watching the full video, I see Ozzie dancing around avoiding the melee and Ventura standing up for himself and his team. I’m going to go ahead and project that it means that a rash of beanings like the Sox had in September won’t go unnoticed by the current management.

by ParisSox on Oct 10, 2011 3:58 PM CDT reply actions  

That's the thing I always think of about Ventura, even though he looked bad.

He took action into his own hands. Might’ve gotten the worse end of it, but the organization defended him, and Kevin Kennedy sure remembered it.

Whales! Squids! Sharks! They're everywhere! Hello, I am Poseidon! Now, when people told me I was crazy that thinly sliced roast beef would be a delicious fast-food option, I knew it was the greatest idea, and you can thank me later for Arby's.

by Jim Margalus on Oct 10, 2011 4:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

Herm almost looks svelte

White Sox 2012: Helplessly hoping.

by greenlight on Oct 10, 2011 4:45 PM CDT reply actions  

i bet robin wishes he kept his helmet on.

that being said… i always respected ventura for that.

that being said- i respected ryan for that too.

ryan owned the inner and outer half of the plate. i’m all for buzzing people that took you deep. i wish some of the sox pitchers did shit like that. (seems a little extreme to do it for a single but there was bad blood between the teams)

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Oct 10, 2011 11:39 PM CDT reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Welcome to South Side Sox! Please check our new standards and guide to FanPosts/FanShots before posting.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

61y5zkwuutl__sl500__small
The Ballad of bobpuller
Archerme_small
The Padded Cell: Wait of the World (part 1 of 2)
Tedlangue_small
RRRR: Facebook and socialization
Small
Reliever-to-Starter Conversions Update
Pair-rose-colored__szo0279_small
A Quarter for your thoughts?

Recent FanPosts

Small
Is Nate Jones for Real?*
Homersimpson_small
BMO 2027: The Sox Machine Cometh
Img_2130_small
RRRR: Lemon drops melting
Deadhorse_small
White Sox Minor League Update
Pair-rose-colored__szo0279_small
CDM Challenge Update (Second Tier Status 1/5 in)

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

FanShots

Quick hits of video, photos, quotes, chats, links and lists that you find around the web.

Recent FanShots

White Sox offer free tickets to CPD officers
Empty Seats
A true hitting guru can fix anything
Tweet from Jake Peavy
The White Sox's Black Hole Problem, And Other Observations From A Day Game
Get to the choppa!
Dan Rubenstein heads to Columbus, Ohio to meet Hall of Fame legends Ricky Henderson, Frank Thomas,...
Sox Are Shiftless MFers!
Jake Peavy, AL Pitcher of the Month for the April, is back to 2007 form. While outperforming his preseason projections, is he really up there with the best in baseball? Short answer: yes.

See full post on Beyond the Box Score
A 2 part podcast with Oney Guillen (Ozzie's Son)

+ New FanShot All FanShots >

Yahoo_full_count

Managing Editor

Tedlangue_small Jim Margalus

Editors

Deadhorse_small larry

Sealab_murphy_small colintj

Img_2130_small homesickalien

Omar_small U-God

Authors

10083hb_small KenWo4LiFe

Archerme_small Uribe Down