The Domino Effect of Bad Decisions
After the White Sox won the World Series back in 2005, General Manager Kenny Williams decided he needed another top line starter to take the place of Orlando "El Duque" Hernandez. Williams thought Hernandez was at the end of the line and wasn't ready to give over a starting rotation spot to Brandon McCarthy. So the decision was made to trade Hernandez, reliever Luis Vizcaino and a center field prospect to the Diamondbacks in exchange for Javier Vazquez. That is where the first domino fell on the recent run of bad moves of Kenny Williams.
The Sox had plenty of CF prospects at the time, including Brian Anderson, Ryan Sweeney, Jerry Owens and Chris Young. The decision was made to keep Anderson to be the heir apparent to Aaron Rowand and Young was sent to Arizona.
After all, Anderson was the former first round pick and had risen quickly through the White sox system. Young was drafted in the 16th round and while he rose quickly and had success, hitting 50 homers over two minor league seasons in 2004 and 2005, wasn't ranked in the top 100 on 2005s Baseball America's prospect list. Anderson, meanwhile, was ranked 37th. Ahead of guys like Shin-Soo Choo (51), Curtis Granderson (57) and Nick Markakis (65). Sweeney was also on the list as well, just below Anderson, at 42. It wasn't like Young wasn't on anyones radar though, as he checked in at 6 on the White Sox top 10 prospects and was deemed the fastest baserunner and best athlete in the system.
Kenny and Ozzie were both sure that Anderson could take the place of Rowand.
"We are going to miss Aaron on the field and off the field," said Guillen, speaking of the move recently at SoxFest. "He's one of my favorite players. But I feel comfortable having [Anderson] play there."
"If this kid catches the ball, he's ready right now," Guillen said. "I expect him to play the best defense possible.
"He will carry this team [in the future]. If we wait for Brian to carry this team now to win this thing, then we have a problem."
"When you have an impact type of young player, you have to push that young player or players into action not at a time when you are rebuilding," Williams added. "You want to bring him in while you are winning, so they can grow from the bottom of the order up and develop."
Unfortunately, Ozzie didn't stick to those words. Anderson struggled terribly with the bat in the first half and before long, Rob Mackowiak was inserted into CF. He ended up starting 51 painful games in center as the Sox fell short of the playoffs.
In 2007, Anderson was in the doghouse and only played in 13 Major League games even though he actually showed signs of improvement in the 2nd half of 2006, as he hit .257 after the break compared with .192 in the first half.
After it was apparent that Mackowiak couldn't play centerfield, the Sox went out and signed Darin Erstad and called up Jerry Owens to take over in center. Luis Terrero also received some time as well as the Sox won 72 games and made the World Series victory seem like a distant memory.
After the 2007 season, and the failures of Anderson, Mackowiak, Erstad, Owens and Terrero, Williams decided he needed to address centerfield again. He offered a massive contract to Torii Hunter, but lost out to the Angels. He tried to work out a deal for Rowand to return, but wasn't willing to offer up the years that Rowand wanted. Finally, he decided to go the trade route. Just after the New Year, he acquired Nick Swisher from the Athletics in exchange for Gio Gonzalez, Ryan Sweeney and Fautino De Los Santos.
Swisher ended up starting 69 games in center and moved to first for 49 games when Paul Konerko was injured and underperforming. Anderson was back in the picture as he started 37 games and Dewayne Wise made his first appearance as he started 17 games in center. At the deadline, Kenny went out and acquired future Hall of Famer Ken Griffey Jr. to play center. Griffey told Williams that he couldn't play the position like he could years ago, but Williams dismissed Griffey's worries and the aging veteran was out there for 32 of his 41 career White Sox appearances. However, Griffey was plagued by general soreness and there was no way the Sox were going to pick up his 16 million dollar 2009 option.
Swisher also wore out his welcome and was banished quickly to the Yankees for a package that included Wilson Betemit, Jhonny Nunez and Jeff Marquez. Swisher has regained his form, having three productive seasons for the Yankees while the White Sox got absolutely nothing in return.
For 2009, Dewayne Wise was given the center field job out of spring training but then,shockingly, he played like Dewayne Wise and was soon splitting time with Anderson again. The Sox then picked up World Series hero Scott Podsednik and played him in centerfield 48 times, even though they were unwilling to do that 3 years prior. Anderson, was finally dealt near the trade deadline to the Red Sox for Mark Kotsay, which eventually led to the revolving DH that saw Jim Thome playing for Minnesota instead of the White Sox in 2010.
In August of 2009, with the Sox on the cusp of contention, Williams made and was awarded the waiver claim of Alex Rios and the rest of his 60 million dollars. Rios was awful in 2009, had a good 2010, a brutal 2011 and still has 3 years and 37 million dollars guaranteed on his contract.
So since that fateful day that Williams pulled the trigger on Young, the Sox have gone through Anderson, Mackowiak, Owens, Erstad, Terrero, Swisher, Griffey, Wise, Podsednik and Rios. All while trading Gonzalez, Sweeney (who never was given a shot here and has played decently in Oakland), De Los Santos, Nick Masset and Swisher and taking on an albatross of a contract for Rios.
Meanwhile, Chris Young has played a solid centerfield for Arizona since 2007. He has been worth 10.1 wins in bWAR, has hit 118 homers and has stolen 108 bases all while playing solid defense.
Can we get a mulligan?
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Do keep in mind that he wasn't worth a damn really until these past two seasons.
He was pretty much replacement value before 2010.
"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"
he's become an all star the last 2 years.
but even before that he was doing enough to justify starting him. 32 homers as a rookie? if anderson did that he would have bought himself at least another 2 years before looking for another option.
Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.
Those 32 homeruns also came with an OBP somehow below .300.
"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"
obp isn't everything man.
32 homers from a rookie is pretty impressive. and the only white sox center fielder that young didn’t outplay was Podsednik in 2009.
He’s been better than the trio of 2007, Swisher Griffey Anderson and Wise in 2008, Wise and Rios in 2009, rios in 2010 and 2011.
Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.
impressive? sure.
makes a player valuable? depends on the context. his were the only thing saving him from being horseshit.
I know OBP isn't everything.
But until he learned to start drawing walks, he was going to be the next Ron Kittle. He was worth a whopping 0.2 bWAR in that magical 32 homerun rookie season.
"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"
ron kittle is the greatest player in white sox history. so thats a pretty good comp.
Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.
by KenWo4LiFe on Oct 15, 2011 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
This whole little thread right here is perfect.
it just makes me weak in the knees the way gomez neither fixed or removed his crooked ass helmet after that puntoslide. -Trooper on Oct 5, 2011
by South Side Expat on Oct 15, 2011 3:17 PM CDT up reply actions
how many years as a starter did fields' 23 home runs in 100 games buy him?
in any event, by your logic, the white sox would have then just dumped young after his rather bad 2009 season. i’d say prior to that. young would have just been another bad decision in a different way if they’d kept him. young players aren’t given much rope here.
the sox had crede in 2008 though. they didn't have a center fielder.
fields was also given 2009 to start… but had beckham to plug in. He’s been living on his 2009 since then.
Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.
good post
In response to u god. Wasn’t youngs only bad year 2009 sincejoining the snakepit
"80 percent of this thread is rangerjae's sig". -Jim Margulus 6/16/11
Follow me on twitter @michaelcaserno and read my blog, it sucks but its fun
2007 and 2008 didn't do much for me.
"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"
i'm not saying he is the next griffey... but if they had chose young over anderson
they would have avoided making some of the biggest mistakes (Swisher x2, Rios) that the club has ever made.
Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.
Based on the projections at the time
If they would have included Anderson instead of Young in that deal, everyone would have gone ballistic. Even the “surest” of prospects are tough to predict so it’s hard to go back and fault KW for not choosing Young.
by ParisSox on Oct 15, 2011 3:46 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
And by everyone I mean everyone outside of SSS.
Just saw Cheat’s link below.
by ParisSox on Oct 15, 2011 3:55 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
If they had simply stuck with Anderson
the whole center field situation would have been much, much better over these years. Anderson had his head on straight by the 2009 season and his numbers don’t look bad, though his defense appears to have slipped. He was the best outfielder overall in spring 2010 with KC but his earlier failings caused him to be overlooked there for the outfield. I wish he had continued as a position player.
"Great things have been effected by a few men well conducted" - George Rogers Clark
by Carthago Delenda Est on Oct 15, 2011 3:53 PM CDT up reply actions
Plus, he could help with the rotation next year.
it just makes me weak in the knees the way gomez neither fixed or removed his crooked ass helmet after that puntoslide. -Trooper on Oct 5, 2011
by South Side Expat on Oct 15, 2011 4:08 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
Also, congrats to 670.
He is getting married today.
"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"
Cufflinks made out of an old comiskey seat, nice gift
Off-Season Proposition Bet Tally - 1 won - 6 lost
what's that? his gift to the groomsmen?
my buddy just got cufflinks made out of the hardwood from the old chicago stadium as part of a wedding party.
i thought that was pretty damn sweet.
Some people get so rich they lose all respect for humanity. That's how rich I want to be.
I'll just leave this here
SSSers rank Young ahead of Anderson following ’05 season
This used to be my playground
the comments are so civil and on topic. we've come a long way.
Some people get so rich they lose all respect for humanity. That's how rich I want to be.
by MarketMaker on Oct 15, 2011 3:00 PM CDT up reply actions 4 recs
So the decision was made to trade Hernandez, reliever Luis Vizcaino and a center field prospect to the Diamondbacks in exchange for Javier Vazquez. That is where the first domino fell on the recent run of bad moves of Kenny Williams.
You do realize Javy was worth about 15 fwar and almost 13 bwar in his stay on the south side right?
"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun
Anderson failed yes
but nothing wrong with that deal. The White Sox just didn’t handle it well after Anderson crashed.
"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun
i'm not saying acquiring vazquez was bad. i'm saying choosing anderson over young was the bad part.
Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.
i do.
i think its pretty safe to assume they would have taken anderson.
Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.
why.
brian anderson, age 22 season, at birmingham: .270/.346/.416.
chris young, age 21 season, at birmingham: .277/.377/.545.
i don’t know how many times i need to go over age versus level. i’d note anderson’s is a partial season because he spent most of that season at winston-salem – a level young skipped over, obviously without any trouble at all. it strains credulity to suggest arizona couldn’t figure this out.
says the dbacks wanted anderson and settled for young.
Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.
flagged.
phil rogers.
"michael gilhaney is an example of a man that is nearly banjaxed from the principal of the atomic theory. would it astonish you to hear that he is nearly half a bicycle?" ~~ sergeant pluck
yah i know its phil rogers...
and that there is also a report from a scout from arizona saying they wanted young (but really what are they going to say at that point- young was already on the team and performing well when that report came out)…
I’m going to ask kenny williams at sox fest. not like he wont lie either. but i’m interested to hear what he says.
Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.
if you're the white sox, which player do you want to keep.
the one who is major league ready. so which player do you as arizona ask for. the one the white sox want to keep. negotiating 101. if arizona asked for young first, they’d probably have ended up with jerry owens or something.
nice summary
… if you like watching a 6-year train wreck. I know you can’t win ’em all trade-wise, but I never could figure out why KW was so generous giving away talent. did he think we were the yankees? if anderson or swisher play as expected, he comes out looking ok. but this way, he comes out looking like a sucker.
We think alike ruffster...
Until KW is gone, my faith in this organization will continue to fade. New blood and a fresh perspective is needed.
Was the Stanley Cup actually a dream? It already seems like a lifetime ago.
by TrickyDickAllen on Oct 15, 2011 7:01 PM CDT up reply actions
it seems like kw has done ok
.. but when he has had a few moves blow pup in his face, i wonder if he’s trying to do the GM equivalent of a 10-run homer and make some really really great move to make up for the bad ones? all he needs to do is come out a little bit ahead on the majority of his moves and we’ll be ok. but as it is, we’ve had several big moves blow up and now we’re even worse off.
not totally worthless, just have to keep in mind what you're reading
As you get away from the very top end, the whole thing gets increasingly mooshy with less distinction among the players.
Plus the jump to the Majors is huge. Further down the list, the “maybe” about guys gets bigger.
agreed...
but even when you look at first round draft picks, it’s amazing that about 1/3 of the guys never even make the show. kw also has a thing for 1st round picks, and sometimes it seems to work out (thornton, humber).
its a little bigger than 'a thing', full-on boner i'd say:
2011 White Sox drafted in the 1st round:
Danks
Floyd
Rios
Konerko
Thornton
Humber
Quentin
Castro
Beckham
Sale
Santos (as ss)
2nd round:
Dunn
Crain
3rd:
AJ
And you even missed a few.
Lastings Milledge
Mark Teahen (supplemental pick)
Jeff Marquez doesn’t count toward 2011, but he was a supplemental pick. Dallas McPherson was a second-rounder. Zach Stewart a third-rounder.
Whales! Squids! Sharks! They're everywhere! Hello, I am Poseidon! Now, when people told me I was crazy that thinly sliced roast beef would be a delicious fast-food option, I knew it was the greatest idea, and you can thank me later for Arby's.
by Jim Margalus on Oct 15, 2011 11:31 PM CDT up reply actions
Damn, I did not know Santos was a 1st round pick.
That makes his story even better, I think.
The policeman who jumps from a bridge to a plane is Detective John McClane, a.k.a. Bruce Willis. He’s just the star of the whole movie series and stuff, no big deal or anything. -Cruiser
then there's that guy from the 38th round
ah, he’ll never amount to much
by ruffster on Oct 16, 2011 9:07 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'd rec this if I weren't on mobile
by ObsidianXIII on Oct 16, 2011 1:09 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Good summary indeed.
Thanks, KenWo.
The policeman who jumps from a bridge to a plane is Detective John McClane, a.k.a. Bruce Willis. He’s just the star of the whole movie series and stuff, no big deal or anything. -Cruiser
It's easy to look at this in retrospect and say Young would look good in center now.
But I think the real failing of this whole story is their inability to give Anderson any kind of time to develop. I mean he played well defensively that first year, it’s not like he had to hit like an all-star to be a viable option in center. I can’t help but wonder if he would have turned it around given a few seasons to develop. Were they just impatient with him or did he rightfully earn his spot in the doghouse some other way?
we saw quite a bit of him before that season.
in my opinion, he got maybe even more of a chance than he should’ve.
by obnoxious american on Oct 15, 2011 5:27 PM CDT up reply actions
Couldn't hit a breaking ball.
Whales! Squids! Sharks! They're everywhere! Hello, I am Poseidon! Now, when people told me I was crazy that thinly sliced roast beef would be a delicious fast-food option, I knew it was the greatest idea, and you can thank me later for Arby's.
by Jim Margalus on Oct 15, 2011 5:39 PM CDT up reply actions
yeah. and couldn't lay off them either.
Some people get so rich they lose all respect for humanity. That's how rich I want to be.
lost his faith in Jobu.
Why buy the cow when the milk is kinda bitchy?
by SkanchoDanza on Oct 15, 2011 7:10 PM CDT via iPhone app up reply actions
One CF missing from the timeline in the story
a pretty significant White Sox, too, if not a significant CFer.
by son_of_sophist on Oct 15, 2011 11:56 PM CDT reply actions
he was the opening day starter.
he was moved either because he sucked (and that would certainly add to your litany of complaints) or because they needed to wedge quentin into the everyday lineup.
actually i don't think he sucked.
i remember one unbelievable play he made spinning and turning in right center and gunning down a runner at 2nd.
but yah. quentin started fast and it was obvious he needed to play. and uribe got injured early in 2008 which gave ramirez a spot at 2nd.
Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.
yeah, Alexei
since you’re writing about the desperation in filling the spot, and the failures . . .
by son_of_sophist on Oct 16, 2011 1:28 PM CDT up reply actions
The problem wasn't trading for Vazquez in and of itself.
While it was the first domino, there were plenty of opportunities to stop the rest from falling. More competent GMs trade Young for Vazquez and given 6 years are able to acquire at least an average CF with his pocketbook.
"keep a weather eye on the horizon, dearest captain of the douche canoe" - BJ
or wallet, depending on the occassion.
"keep a weather eye on the horizon, dearest captain of the douche canoe" - BJ
by Shoeless In SC on Oct 17, 2011 9:24 AM CDT up reply actions


























