Reading Room: Ozzie adds input to Cooper drama
Don Cooper has been an employee of the White Sox since 1988, and over the last 23 years, he developed into one of baseball's finest pitching coaches on the strength of his ability to teach old dogs new tricks.
Given his decades-old association with the club and the performance of his pitchers, it's not unusual for the White Sox to prioritize his return over the rest of the coaching staff.
Of course Joe Cowley -- using the words of Ozzie Guillen -- chooses to interpret Cooper's extension in a different light.
"Cooper needs to look in the mirror,’’ Guillen told the Sun-Times. "He didn’t back-stab me. I know who he is. He back-stabbed his fellow coaches, the guys he worked with for years. You got family? That’s fine. Everyone does. We all knew Coop was Kenny’s b----.
"Look, Coop is not a good coach; he’s a great coach. But Coop is Coop. He doesn’t worry about anyone; he worries about himself. I stuck up for my coaches like a m-----------.
And at the end, Guillen drops this gem:
"Since last year, this was about integrity, it was about loyalty, it was about do they want me here. Let me say it my way: The Sox were saying, ‘Yes, we want to f--- you, but we don’t want to marry you.’ ’’
Was that before or after Guillen f---ed the White Sox with his managing?
While Guillen made his voice heard through the Sun-Times, Kenny Williams chose to respond through the funny pages. See what I'm talking about below the jump.
(h/t to Kurt at Baseball Think Factory)
Christian Marrero Reading Room
STRETCH! Daryl Van Schouwen pulls out the Jump to Conclusions Mat after hearing that Jerry Reinsdorf wanted to move up his dinner date with the Gentleman Masher, though it's a neat thought.
In fact, it led me to a couple others:
- This wouldn't be much different from Mark McGwire serving as the St. Louis Cardinals' hitting coach. That decision raised plenty of eyebrows, but the Cardinals seem happy with it.
- This would be the second time Thome took the job Frank Thomas wanted. It would take a lot of Big Hurt Beer to ease that big hurt.
Also filing under "wait and see," Jon Heyman says the White Sox are expected to try to bring back Mark Buehrle on a two-year deal. That's not nearly as far-fetched as Jim Thome: Hitting Coach, but it seems like the process will be a seven-week ordeal still.
Plus, the White Sox might have to increase their offer to three years in order to catch his attention. I mean, if they leave it at two, then how can Buehrle resist that sexy, sexy offer to bolt to the Boston bullpen?
James looks at the five biggest plays on each side of the ledger, as determined by WPA.
Satchel Price names his divisional All-Star team, and it's bad news in tennis shoes when no White Sox are in the starting lineup.
(Also, Satchel notes that fWAR gives Gavin Floyd a better year than Mark Buehrle.)
RIPPED FROM 2009'S HEADLINES!
- Scout: Sox's drafts more productive than perceived - chicagotribune.com
- Not Everybody Hates The White Sox Drafts - South Side Asylum
One scout says the White Sox haven't had a real drafting problem, and that is probably true enough. It just happens to be low tide at the pier right now, due to a recent spate of graduations.
I think the Sox scouting department does OK with what it has. The problem is that it doesn't have a lot due to circumstances beyond its control. No team spends less on the draft than the White Sox, because they simply don't prioritize it, whether by failing to collect high-round draft picks or losing they ones they have. Sometimes they'll shed a first-day pick by signing a Type A free agent, and other times they'll trade David Holmberg. Throw in the lack of an international system, and you'll have a farm system that can't help but hit rough patches. This is one of them.
Also, consult Larry's AFL FanPost for discussion on MLB.com's organizational all-stars.
And finally....
I laughed.
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if kenwo still thinks ozzie is returning to the sox...
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Highly underrated, Mark Kotsay became the best defensive designated hitter in American League history in 2010.
by onlysoxfaninbasel on Oct 18, 2011 1:12 AM CDT reply actions
clarify, keeping a door open to returning whatever years later..
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Highly underrated, Mark Kotsay became the best defensive designated hitter in American League history in 2010.
by onlysoxfaninbasel on Oct 18, 2011 1:13 AM CDT up reply actions
because he spoke badly about cooper? big deal.
i still say he’ll manage here again. book it.
Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.
after a change in ownership, who knows i suppose
but this article reflects quite poorly on ozzie, he should just shut up and move on
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Highly underrated, Mark Kotsay became the best defensive designated hitter in American League history in 2010.
by onlysoxfaninbasel on Oct 18, 2011 2:25 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Perhaps more than after a change of GM than a change of ownership
Guillen can be pretty perfect jerk…one who could do with a little bit of diplomacy in his words. Maybe he will gain that with the addition of years of experience. One thing Guillen does not seem to be is a hypocrite, and I like that. He stands by his actions and words. He shoulders his responsibility, and he is not hypocrite. Watch it… I am not saying that Coop is hypocrite. I like Cooper too. Some people immeditely jump at Guillen for saying what he said…. Cooper started it. Guillen would have not say (probably) what he said on Monday if Cooper didn’t (sorta) accused him for not looking out for his coaches.
by JofpGallagher on Oct 18, 2011 6:34 AM CDT up reply actions
cooper started it?
what? cooper responded to cowley (i.e. ozzie).
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Highly underrated, Mark Kotsay became the best defensive designated hitter in American League history in 2010.
by onlysoxfaninbasel on Oct 18, 2011 6:54 AM CDT up reply actions
ozzie, er joe cowley, er ozzie, i get them mixed up
but one of them called coop judas, remember?
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Highly underrated, Mark Kotsay became the best defensive designated hitter in American League history in 2010.
by onlysoxfaninbasel on Oct 18, 2011 6:56 AM CDT up reply actions
Do we actually have proof that Cooper started it other than Ozzie saying Cooper started it?
"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"
I thought Coop confirmed in his Score call-in rant that he went to Kenny for an extension on his own
Which, in Cowleyland, would probably equal confirmation of a conspiracy where Cooper turned into Kenny’s mole.
Problem is, Ozzie is completely ignoring the likelihood that his performance is what got him his exit to Miami. Easier to imagine Coop as Judas than look at himself. Not unusual I guess.
that video almost made the horrible year of anguish and the
pending fear of 3 more years to follow almost worth it
NAOPOS
Is it wrong that I was still excited to see Dunn's 2011 highlight's?
And yet somehow still oddly disappointed that there weren’t any?
by Billy Ray Durham on Oct 18, 2011 3:11 AM CDT reply actions
I also laughed - loudly.
The Chumbawumba was perfect.
Oh, also: “larry’s”.
"MY NAME IS YOANIS CESPEDEZ YOU KILLED MY FATHER" WHAT!
(Sigh). Unfortunate, but not unexpected. We all predicted that Ozzie would say something.
Doesn’t really change anything, let’s hope the White Sox don’t take the bait.
To my knowledge, certain things were not known.
-James Murdoch
by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Oct 18, 2011 7:26 AM CDT reply actions
I am just kind of wondering why Joe Cowley thinks anyone cares to read about this soap opera
I don’t care what happened anymore. I am just holding out hope that Ozzie stays out of White Sox business for…ever really.
Off-Season Proposition Bet Tally - 1 won - 6 lost
by Rhubarb on Oct 18, 2011 8:54 AM CDT reply actions 3 recs
This, this, and this.
WU got his ass handed to him by the Shit Rooster, of all people! Priceless.
Chiburb is an assclown. A real life loser and internet bore.
Mick11's SBN profile.
You know Ozzie won't though. He can't help himself, he lives here, he's best known as being a baseball player here,
and he has opinions. Ozzie is going to say crap that drives us crazy, but the important thing is for the White Sox to ignore it.
To my knowledge, certain things were not known.
-James Murdoch
by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Oct 18, 2011 12:56 PM CDT up reply actions
various sources
Rule 14 states “Do not argue with trolls – It means they win”
by obnoxious american on Oct 18, 2011 4:58 PM CDT up reply actions
It is either that....
or write nothing about the Sox.
by LorenzoBandini on Oct 19, 2011 7:14 PM CDT up reply actions
ozzie shut up and move on
go hang with lebron or something
The Dunn video would be LOL funny if he didn't play for the Sox
2011 SEASON FUN FACT:
Adam Dunn – 1 HR per every 45 PAs (11 total)
Brent Lillibridge – 1 HR per every 17 PAs (13 total)
Ergo, if Brent was a starter, he’d be on pace to hit around 40 dingers. :)
"Yeah, and you’ll be batting ninth." – PK’s response to AJ’s text inquiry regarding the player/manager rumor. "No, I’ll be demanding a trade." - AJ’s witty retort
wasn't jerry krause supposed to be the sox 'director of international scouting' or something?
it seems insane that they have no international program for drafts.
by obnoxious american on Oct 18, 2011 9:09 AM CDT reply actions
ok.
so did they scrap the whole thing then?
by obnoxious american on Oct 18, 2011 9:29 AM CDT up reply actions
I think there's a semblance of an international program
There’s Miguel Gonzalez, Juan Silverio, and the 19 year old Venezuelan kid in A ball that got a mention in that MiLB org all star story larry posted for example. And there was a story last week about Kenny making a trip to the DR and it looks like there’s a Sox team in the Dominican Summer League. So there’s something. I just don’t know that it’s producing more than a trickle. But that’s about all I can know. I’d love to know more about the state of the international program.
word on the street in the D.R. is that White Sox organization will rip you off
Off-Season Proposition Bet Tally - 1 won - 6 lost
Because of the Duane Shaffer tenure?
To my knowledge, certain things were not known.
-James Murdoch
by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Oct 18, 2011 10:08 AM CDT up reply actions
Thanks. I knew it was because of a guy whose name started with a 'D.'
To my knowledge, certain things were not known.
-James Murdoch
by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Oct 18, 2011 10:13 AM CDT up reply actions
Over time, the Wilder story has to be a less valid explanation though.
I would think by now that the Sox problems in the DR would be shifting to perceptions of cheapness instead of perceptions of corruption. Especially in an environment that is itself highly corrupt.
The Yankees fired their head Latin American and Dominican scouts over kickbacks not long after Wilder got fired, I don’t get the sense that people see their international program hurting.
I’m more inclined to think it’s about not spending at this point.
KW said as much
Money from the international program was shifted at the end of 2004 to pay for Tadahito.
by ParisSox on Oct 18, 2011 12:34 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Oh, you mean Kenny's close confidant
Nice move, Kenny. Way to eff up our international farm system.
by ForeverFisk72 on Oct 19, 2011 12:02 AM CDT up reply actions
what is taking so long
That deal in which the Miami Herald was going to send a junior copywriter and an intern photographer to the Sun-Times in exchange for Cowley was supposed to be done weeks ago.
a VERY AVERAGE Sox Machine refugee
The video is from the Something Awful forums.
http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3440245
Look up other posts by Gendo. He has an incredible Red Sox video and a pretty good recent Milwaukee one.
I think it would have been hilarious if the White Sox had a couple of Ozzie's sons in the system
because then KW could just royally screw them over and it’d be hilarious theater.
by ceverettsdinosaurs on Oct 18, 2011 5:42 PM CDT reply actions
He blackballed Ozney out of baseball forever
Every MLB team thinks the Sox will take him so they can’t use their draft picks on him.
by notoneyguillen on Oct 18, 2011 5:54 PM CDT up reply actions
Also, it just seems that Ozzie is really upset he had to leave
Like he really still cannot believe the Sox moved on without him. However, he was the one who ran his mouth. But whatever, the Sox have bigger problems to worry about right now.
I can't blame him.
He has his issues and is not perfect. But his boss failed more than he did and is still in town.
Imagine that…. Ozzie is upset about that.
by LorenzoBandini on Oct 19, 2011 7:17 PM CDT up reply actions
ozzie seemed to be intentionally managing at less than his best.
i don’t think you can say that about kenny, for all his faults.
This.
Kenny showed up for work and at least tried or displayed false hustle. Oz couldn’t even pretend to give a shit.
"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"
by U-God on Oct 19, 2011 9:49 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs

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