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Late-inning collapses take backseat to other collapses

In one way, the 2011 White Sox actually did themselves a favor by distracting themselves completely out of the race in September.

By going 11-17 in the season's final month, they may have lost most of the dignity they had -- but in the process, they diminished the significance of the bullpen and its accomplices for its horrific early-season failures. I think pain is easier to tolerate when the causes are more general ("If only Adam Dunn weren't the worst hitter in baseball history...") than specific ("If only Juan Pierre could've caught a few more flyballs in April...").

In the process, it sent me scrambling to Baseball-Reference.com, throwing my night out of whack (in a pleasant way).

When the White Sox held a lead at the start of the ninth inning, they went 70-8. That might sound good, if it weren't terrible. For a little context:

  • The Detroit Tigers went 83-0 in such situations, which is good for a 10 1/2 game difference in and of itself.
  • The 2010 White Sox went 76-3 last year when leading to begin the ninth.

And the most interesting number of all...

  • The last South Side team to lose at least eight games after holding a lead to start the ninth? The 1957 White Sox.

For whatever reason, it made roughly the same amount of impact. The Yankees went a respectable 82-4 when holding a lead entering the ninth inning, but the White Sox scuffled their way to a 79-9 mark. The Sox finished eight losses behind the Yankees on the season, and this accounts for five of them. Ninth-inning nightmares accounted for roughly the same percentage of the overall deficit.

Star-divide

But like the 2011 White Sox, the 1957 team had a bigger problem -- they couldn't beat the Yankees. The White Sox went 8-14 against New York, while winning the season series against every other team.

What's weirder is that blown saves didn't really account for much of their Yankee problems. The Sox only lost a ninth-inning lead in one of those 14 losses, but they made it memorable. A 4-1 lead turned into a 6-4 loss thanks to a pinch-hit grand slam to Moose Skowron of all people.

That one hurt. Had the Sox closed that game out, they would have swept a doubleheader and pulled within one game of the Yankees. Instead, they fell three games back, and never could draw any closer. So the next time anybody here sees Moose, ask him if he remembers taking Jim Wilson deep at Comiskey Park on July 14, 1957.

By the way, can anybody guess the last time the White Sox went undefeated when leading after eight innings? This wouldn't have been in my top 15 guesses, but it was 1997. And thank goodness that happened, because a sizable chunk of the Sox's 66-0 record that year was the result of Matt Karchner pumping up his trade value.

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My brain was suffering from Moose relevance conniptions up until the very end.

This article highlights nicely the multiple sources of WSox heartburn we suffered in 2011. No doubt the Serge regression helped reach this noteworthy accomplishment.

White Sox 2012: Helplessly hoping.

by greenlight on Oct 19, 2011 7:18 AM CDT reply actions  

Truth.

That Serge’s rough patch came right after he complained about not getting enough of the save opportunities was objectively funny, but terribly frustrating as a fan.

"That baseball is the smartest thing out on that field." —Hawk Harrelson

by mikecws91 on Oct 19, 2011 8:42 AM CDT up reply actions  

mikecws91

i love the avatar!!! how long you been rockin that?

"Statistics are about as interesting as first base coaches" Jim Bouton

by Grinder Rule #42 on Oct 19, 2011 1:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

Thanks.

I posted it in the May 8 gamethread (it’s since disappeared), so some time shortly after that.

"That baseball is the smartest thing out on that field." —Hawk Harrelson

by mikecws91 on Oct 19, 2011 1:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

I started to intensely dislike Moose when he wouldn't

shut the fuck up during MB’s perfect game. I get he’s some sort of White Sox legend (not entirely sure why), but if I never hear him speak again, it’ll be too soon.

To my knowledge, certain things were not known.
-James Murdoch

by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Oct 19, 2011 7:52 AM CDT reply actions  

Huh. I also had no idea what he looked like - given his voice, I expected a much more wrinkled, smaller version of Yogi Bera.

Oops. I still don’t ever need to hear him on any White Sox broadcast again.

To my knowledge, certain things were not known.
-James Murdoch

by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Oct 19, 2011 9:32 AM CDT up reply actions  

He tells good stories and I like Moose

But yeah he never needed to be up there for a whole inning or two

Off-Season Proposition Bet Tally - 1 won - 6 lost

by Rhubarb on Oct 19, 2011 10:34 AM CDT up reply actions  

I want to say its in remission now

I remember his first game back. Camel provided him with and paid him to smoke their cigarettes…

by 815Sox on Oct 19, 2011 9:45 AM CDT up reply actions  

relax asshole. the moose is a funny dude.

and kind of a friend of the family. he calls my dad when he wants to sell some of his baseball shit. lol.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Oct 19, 2011 10:39 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'm quite sure I don't care if he's your friend or sells you stuff.

He takes away from my listening experience when he’s in the booth. And considering the listening quality of White Sox baseball is so low already, I’d rather it not get worse.

To my knowledge, certain things were not known.
-James Murdoch

by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Oct 19, 2011 1:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

the dude is legendary

he can prattle on for the whole game for all i care.

are you worried about missing something good from DJ? come on.

by e-gus on Oct 19, 2011 1:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

I also enjoy hearing Moose

but I also like the banter between DJ and Farmer. I wish I could listen to the radio broadcasts while watching the game on TV, but out here in western Illinois I can’t do that.

"Great things have been effected by a few men well conducted" - George Rogers Clark

by Carthago Delenda Est on Oct 19, 2011 5:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

eh farmer sucks too.

i wish we could get rooney back.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Oct 21, 2011 10:35 AM CDT up reply actions  

1957. A great year.

My birth year. So our pen sucks a lot. 54 years is a long time.

"MY NAME IS YOANIS CESPEDEZ YOU KILLED MY FATHER" WHAT!

by winningugly on Oct 19, 2011 9:40 AM CDT reply actions  

So our pen sucks a lot.

Have to disagree. They were fourth in fWAR, first in K/9, fifth in FIP, second in xFIP, and fourth-from-last in meltdowns (see here for an explanation of bullpen meltdowns).

They had some high-profile blowups, but overall they pitched really well.

a VERY AVERAGE Sox Machine refugee

by big_fun on Oct 19, 2011 2:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

It's all about closing out the wins, my man.

"MY NAME IS YOANIS CESPEDEZ YOU KILLED MY FATHER" WHAT!

by winningugly on Oct 19, 2011 2:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

Part of it's the number of close games the Sox played.

Even with those blown leads and the below-.500, the Sox still saved the third-most games in the AL. It’s a lot easier to win 96 percent of ninth-inning leads when a good chunk of them take place with a cushion of four runs or more.

Whales! Squids! Sharks! They're everywhere! Hello, I am Poseidon! Now, when people told me I was crazy that thinly sliced roast beef would be a delicious fast-food option, I knew it was the greatest idea, and you can thank me later for Arby's.

by Jim Margalus on Oct 19, 2011 2:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

Margin for error was thiiiiin, then.

"MY NAME IS YOANIS CESPEDEZ YOU KILLED MY FATHER" WHAT!

by winningugly on Oct 19, 2011 2:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

1997. A terrible year.

That team found plenty of ways to loose games well before the 9th inning. BTW, great article.

by Kodachrome on Oct 19, 2011 10:15 AM CDT reply actions  

1957 White Sox

Now, I understand why my Dad was so pissed-off

"Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it." - Mark Twain

by phastphil on Oct 19, 2011 10:15 AM CDT reply actions  

FYD.

"MY NAME IS YOANIS CESPEDEZ YOU KILLED MY FATHER" WHAT!

by winningugly on Oct 19, 2011 11:32 AM CDT up reply actions  

he's a dilf?

Some people get so rich they lose all respect for humanity. That's how rich I want to be.

by MarketMaker on Oct 19, 2011 2:08 PM CDT up reply actions   2 recs

There are Werthers and circus peanuts in the van.

The policeman who jumps from a bridge to a plane is Detective John McClane, a.k.a. Bruce Willis. He’s just the star of the whole movie series and stuff, no big deal or anything. -Cruiser

by Uribe Down on Oct 19, 2011 2:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

This van?

"Yeah, and you’ll be batting ninth." – PK’s response to AJ’s text inquiry regarding the player/manager rumor. "No, I’ll be demanding a trade." - AJ’s witty retort

by tailgater on Oct 19, 2011 3:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

You write one - one - good article

and you become King Shit. One.

;)

"MY NAME IS YOANIS CESPEDEZ YOU KILLED MY FATHER" WHAT!

by winningugly on Oct 19, 2011 3:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

You forgot Necco Wafers

Off-Season Proposition Bet Tally - 1 won - 6 lost

by Rhubarb on Oct 19, 2011 3:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

For the toll booths.

"MY NAME IS YOANIS CESPEDEZ YOU KILLED MY FATHER" WHAT!

by winningugly on Oct 20, 2011 2:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

Right on!

Off-Season Proposition Bet Tally - 1 won - 6 lost

by Rhubarb on Oct 20, 2011 7:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

This year's Red Sox were 77-0 after an 8 inning lead this year until game 162.

Shit happens.

WU got his ass handed to him by the Shit Rooster, of all people! Priceless.
Chiburb is an assclown. A real life loser and internet bore.

Mick11's SBN profile.

by Chiburb on Oct 19, 2011 10:18 AM CDT reply actions  

How did the Tigers do?

Bwaaaaaa haaaaaaaa haaaaaaaa ha!

"Yeah, and you’ll be batting ninth." – PK’s response to AJ’s text inquiry regarding the player/manager rumor. "No, I’ll be demanding a trade." - AJ’s witty retort

by tailgater on Oct 19, 2011 3:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well they kicked OUR asses.

"MY NAME IS YOANIS CESPEDEZ YOU KILLED MY FATHER" WHAT!

by winningugly on Oct 19, 2011 3:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

Are you harshing my mellow?

"Yeah, and you’ll be batting ninth." – PK’s response to AJ’s text inquiry regarding the player/manager rumor. "No, I’ll be demanding a trade." - AJ’s witty retort

by tailgater on Oct 19, 2011 3:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

MLB average this year was around 91%, Sox were 89% successful?

Mathemagicians?

WU got his ass handed to him by the Shit Rooster, of all people! Priceless.
Chiburb is an assclown. A real life loser and internet bore.

Mick11's SBN profile.

by Chiburb on Oct 19, 2011 10:24 AM CDT reply actions  

Now we know what Mike Quade will look like in 20 years.

"Yeah, and you’ll be batting ninth." – PK’s response to AJ’s text inquiry regarding the player/manager rumor. "No, I’ll be demanding a trade." - AJ’s witty retort

by tailgater on Oct 19, 2011 12:34 PM CDT reply actions   1 recs

And like an inordinate number of games that blew.

"Yeah, and you’ll be batting ninth." – PK’s response to AJ’s text inquiry regarding the player/manager rumor. "No, I’ll be demanding a trade." - AJ’s witty retort

by tailgater on Oct 19, 2011 2:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

Great Article!!

Very interesting reading. Moose is a good guy but I cannot remeber the ’57 season. My memory only goes back to ’59 and the Go Go Sox.

by soxfan50 on Oct 19, 2011 3:19 PM CDT reply actions  

Give me world series thread or give me death.

Or should i just repurpose the RRRR into a WS thread?

Off-Season Proposition Bet Tally - 1 won - 6 lost

by Rhubarb on Oct 19, 2011 6:26 PM CDT reply actions  

Maybe a new fanshot or post.

Cause yeah.

it just makes me weak in the knees the way gomez neither fixed or removed his crooked ass helmet after that puntoslide. -Trooper on Oct 5, 2011

by South Side Expat on Oct 19, 2011 6:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

New one up.

"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"

by U-God on Oct 19, 2011 6:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

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