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White Sox should welcome conflict

I picked up The Bill James Guide to Baseball Managers from a used bookstore on Monday, and while thumbing through it, this passage about Whitey Herzog caught my eye.

See, Whitey understood something, which is that sports are essentially conflict. A manager who backs away from conflict is useless. A player who backs away from conflict is useless.

This directness, this willingness to do battle, enabled him to establish expectations for his players. Everybody had a weight limit. Everybody was expected to report to camp in shape.

Herzog had worked for several years in scouting and player development, and he was very, very good at it. He made his own decisions about who could play and who couldn't. This is extremely unusual. Few people in baseball are willing to look at a young man who hasn't yet played in the majors and who doesn't have the "hot prospect" label, and say, "Here's a guy who can play for me." Herzog was never dependent on established stars, because he was always willing to rest his fate on young, unproven players.

Whitey was the boldest man in baseball. He looked for an attitude, a willingness to get it done. When a player lost that edge, that fearlessness, that love of risk, he lost his value, and then his manager had a problem. If the manager faced that problem head-on, there would be conflict. If he didn't, there would be mediocrity.

We certainly became intimately familiar with the idea behind that last sentence, didn't we?

Star-divide

When you look at the way James describes Herzog, I wonder if Ozzie Guillen would describe himself the same way. After all, that's what he was supposed to be -- an honest evaluator with an aggressive strategy who wouldn't back down from a fight when a player challenged his baseball values.

Over his last two seasons, though, would you be able to look at Guillen and establish any real philosophy? From where I'm sitting, his being-somewhere-elseness watered down his baseball values, transforming tenets into token bench calls. "Unselfishness" became "bunt a lot," and "aggressiveness" turned into "try stealing a lot."

Forget stars -- he was dependent on established players. Regardless of results or apparent effort, it took a tsunami to knock a veteran out of his pre-established Role-with-a-capital-R. When anybody suggested replacing one of the underperforming parts, Guillen said, "With who?" But when real solutions were presented, the response was, "And take him out?"

His management of the late innings is the only area where he showed flashes of inspiration. I liked the four-out saves a lot. I liked the one-out saves less, but both showed he was capable of turning off autopilot and responding to performances and situations on the field.

Otherwise, Guillen became an empty uniform. Which is exactly what any of us would be if we were transported into the manager's office. Our best chance to survive the season would be to make the most important players -- not the best ones, just the ones with the most gravitas in the clubhouse -- as comfortable as possible. Otherwise, said players would immediately respond to challenges by attempting to undermine our authority, and in all likelihood, we wouldn't have the resources to handle it.

When the skipper manages a team (not a game, but a team) like we would, there's a problem. I don't know all the specific reasons why Guillen and the Sox didn't act, but I thought the baseball sense outweighed the replies of "it's complex," a.k.a. "the unknown."

Judging only from the way events played out, the White Sox ran away from conflict. They chose the path of least resistance at every turn. The six-man rotation would be the ultimate example -- Guillen created it to avoid replacing a struggling starter with Phil Humber, and then Guillen disabled its most beneficial feature (an extra day of rest) because Jake Peavy wanted the ball. Conflict aversion decided the strategy.

The result was mediocrity. It's a shame we can't replay the season, because I would've liked to see how actual shake-ups would have tested the "complexities." I'm still not sure why preserving the status quo became such a priority when the status quo was unacceptable.

Star-divide

Speaking of unacceptable status quos, Larry and I (more Larry than I) had another Twitter debate Chris Rongey, which most of you already know about from the last thread. The conversation started from my re-tweet of Kevin Goldstein of Baseball Prospectus:

Regarding the worst farm system. // RT @Kevin_Goldstein Yes. And it's not close. RT @sdsufan5 white sox?
Oct 20 via webFavoriteRetweetReply

 

Goldstein held a similar sentiment to Baseball America's Jim Callis:

#WhiteSox, no contest. @musiqboateng: which team has the worst farm system in the majors?
Oct 19 via HootSuiteFavoriteRetweetReply

 

There wasn't much to the discussion -- we argued that the Sox should do better than dead-last in amateur spending; Rongey argue that turning focus to the minors is difficult for a team that only draws when the Sox are seriously competing, and that paying over slot wouldn't solve problems by itself.

Those sides aren't on the same coin, because there's a lot more to it besides individual bonuses. Hell, the Sox can start by not giving away draft picks (or extra players in trades). But treating Rongey's response as a reflection of White Sox thinking, there's not a whole lot separating a "conservative" approach from an "a-scared" approach.

The Sox don't do contentious negotiations with prospects. They don't make serious investments in the international market (Dayan Viciedo was three years ago). They would rather exchange prospects for proven players than watch their own players try to tread water.

Advocates of this approach would laud Kenny Williams for playing the percentages. Detractors could call it a fear of failure, and when Rongey says the Sox can't afford to miss on picks they invest heavily in...

... well, it's because they have so few of them. For instance, most teams can absorb their Jared Mitchell situations, but for the White Sox farm system, it's a total nut punch. Their top prospect list could be headlined by a reliever next year because forces conspired against Mitchell. Because they invest so little in amateur talent, they become more invested in the few alluring picks they do have. As a result, when Mitchell breaks his ankle or Gordon Beckham can't recognize pitches, it hurts way more than it should.

Star-divide

Hopefully Adam Dunn shattered the model.

On paper, Dunn was the safest move Williams could make. He had production you could set your watch to. He cost a first-round pick, but his production was supposed to keep the revenue model in motion for future investments down the line. He'd hit titanic homers, the Sox would play vitally important baseball into September and October, and the fans would show up in response.

Instead, the safest choice proved to be more dangerous than any first-round slot payment could be. In terms of overall numbers and self-inflicted damage, Dunn probably had the worst season in baseball history. The Sox could've drafted a college bat with the 23rd overall pick, put him in the lineup immediately after signing him, and received better production from the DH spot. At least the draft bonus is a one-time payment.

Dunn, with assistance from Alex Rios, made this team probably the least-liked version of the White Sox since the late 1990s. Attendance dropped significantly, and with another uninspiring season, the Sox will have lost all attendance gains since they won the World Series.

The Sox are in desperate need of fortitude at every level, and not just of the testicular variety. This is the perfect time for it.

At the major-league level, Dunn and Rios have little to zero professional credibility, Juan Pierre no longer has a lockdown on the leadoff spot, and the utility infielder will likely have fewer than 2,000 games on his B-Ref page. There are no valid reasons for 2011's "complications" to seep into 2012, because after watching Alejandro De Aza break out the way he showed he could in Triple-A, organizational action could have given the Sox a handful of wins by itself.

Likewise, this would be the best time to lobby for investing in amateur talent. The Sox ramped up their payroll in 2011, and they lost attendance. After watching what proven players did with $30 million up top, how can the Sox be scared of spending $5 million at the bottom?

In both cases, I just want the White Sox to stop opting for whatever is the easiest. Highly paid professionals are supposed to be able to handle conflict and see avenues for adapting, but the Sox have developed a nasty habit of sidestepping opportunities. Every cry for change has been answered with "we can't," or " we don't," or "we couldn't," or "we won't," and as a result, the White Sox didn't.

Comment 66 comments  |  11 recs  | 

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Is Kenny running a-scared?

What was the difference between the draft classes and signings of the late ’80s and now?

by Rick Hardslab on Oct 21, 2011 7:10 AM CDT reply actions  

Can't really compare them due to the vastly different economics at play

But higher draft picks would be the one difference that would carry over.

Whales! Squids! Sharks! They're everywhere! Hello, I am Poseidon! Now, when people told me I was crazy that thinly sliced roast beef would be a delicious fast-food option, I knew it was the greatest idea, and you can thank me later for Arby's.

by Jim Margalus on Oct 21, 2011 10:40 AM CDT up reply actions  

Stay tuned for my White Rat story.

Fantastic story about him speaking to a formal group of top-producing insurance agents and their wives in St. Louis.

The sun on the balcony is almost unbearable, worse than the booing fans in Chicago shedding miserable light on his failures at work.

by winningugly on Oct 21, 2011 7:34 AM CDT reply actions  

Whitey Herzog in a room full of insurance agents has the makings of the Most St. Louis Story Ever.

Whales! Squids! Sharks! They're everywhere! Hello, I am Poseidon! Now, when people told me I was crazy that thinly sliced roast beef would be a delicious fast-food option, I knew it was the greatest idea, and you can thank me later for Arby's.

by Jim Margalus on Oct 21, 2011 10:41 AM CDT up reply actions  

another example of path of least resistance

drafting one high school player in 2011. at least kanny will be the most fundamentally sound team in the sally.

by larry on Oct 21, 2011 8:13 AM CDT via mobile reply actions  

I think you'll get that wish (last paragraph).

Pretty sure there’s no choice but to go a different route this season and beyond, $$-wise and philosphically.

WU got his ass handed to him by the Shit Rooster, of all people! Priceless.
Chiburb is an assclown. A real life loser and internet bore.

Mick11's SBN profile.

by Chiburb on Oct 21, 2011 8:49 AM CDT reply actions  

that's a very good take on things!

hopefully things will change in the coming future.

Easy chief
We’re a community - Tdogg

by Jack M on Oct 21, 2011 9:09 AM CDT reply actions  

Excellent

The best orgs do both. I’m not in the camp that the White Sox can’t be competitive next year but regardless they can start investment for the long term at a fraction of the wasted salary the past few years. I’m excited to see De Aza get a full season shot.

"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun

by Tdogg on Oct 21, 2011 9:19 AM CDT reply actions  

*larry

An excellent piece. I can’t help but wonder if any of the personal stuff (Kenny’s restaurant, the Guillen Family Drafting Experience, “The Show,” etc) accelerated Ozzie’s desire to capitulate to everyone else and not make any real changes. It seems that Kenny William’s this-might-be-a-bad-idea feelings about Ozzie’s twitter were correct.

To my knowledge, certain things were not known.
-James Murdoch

by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Oct 21, 2011 9:43 AM CDT reply actions  

i actually really liked the teams in the late 90s.

but anyway… nice job.

How long would it take to rebuild the minor leagues? I’d have to think at least 3 years- which is exactly how much time we have left with adam dunn and rios. so what the hell.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Oct 21, 2011 9:54 AM CDT reply actions  

At one of the panels at SoxFest last year,

Hahn was talking about how detrimental the whole Dave Wilder thing was, and it was going to take a number of years to recover from that.

How do you think that’s going so far?

it just makes me weak in the knees the way gomez neither fixed or removed his crooked ass helmet after that puntoslide. -Trooper on Oct 5, 2011

by South Side Expat on Oct 21, 2011 10:01 AM CDT up reply actions  

terribly. and "recovering" isn't the word. i don't know what they're recovering from. name the last dominican to be signed by the white sox and get to the majors with the club.

arnie munoz. prior to that? it’s probably luis andujar, and that was in ‘95. and those two were complete horseshit. last guy i can think of who wasn’t is norberto martin and he was pretty shitty, too.

i’m trying to think if there were any the white sox signed but made the majors with another team. there might be but no one is coming immediately to mind.

by larry on Oct 21, 2011 10:17 AM CDT up reply actions   2 recs

Is this all just really willful ignorance?

Wilder or no Wilder you point out they have done little there overall. Can they really just not “see” what the mlb looks like?

"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun

by Tdogg on Oct 21, 2011 10:25 AM CDT up reply actions  

Paco Martin was pretty shitty

only if pretty shitty is code for completely awesome!

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Oct 21, 2011 10:31 AM CDT up reply actions  

Forgive my ignorance, but what was the story with Magglio and Lee?

Weren’t they scouted/signed/drafted/developed by the organization?

To my knowledge, certain things were not known.
-James Murdoch

by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Oct 21, 2011 10:37 AM CDT up reply actions  

well, obviously not much in the DR. but they used to have a relatively decent venezuelan operation. still do, to some extent.

the white sox had a venezuelan summer league team for one year: 2006. and they shared that team with the orioles (not unusual, quite a few teams have shared, particularly 5+ years ago). all that shows their level of commitment to venezuela. eduardo escobar and gregory infante played on the team in 2006, so it’s not like nothing has come from it. and wilder was fired in 2008, so it’s not like the abandonment of the VSL had anything to do with that fiasco. since that point, about the only halfway decent player to come out of venezuela is miguel gonzalez.

by larry on Oct 21, 2011 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions  

How much of this is as simple as throwing money at the draft?

Lowering MLB payroll by 6 or 7 million a year and allocating that money towards the draft. It really is mind numbing that in 2011 the management of the White Sox cannot understand the value relationship between buying 6 or 7 high ceiling prep players out of their commitments, or using the exact same amount of money for one year of Juan Pierre.

by MelidoPerez on Oct 21, 2011 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions  

Was Ozzie instrumental in the Venezuelan connection,

and, if so, will it shrivel up like the old Chiburb’s unit when it sees a naked woman?

The sun on the balcony is almost unbearable, worse than the booing fans in Chicago shedding miserable light on his failures at work.

by winningugly on Oct 21, 2011 1:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

How exactly do you know what Chiburb's unit looks like?

To my knowledge, certain things were not known.
-James Murdoch

by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Oct 21, 2011 1:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

I can only imagine wu's typos when he

is using only one hand.

it just makes me weak in the knees the way gomez neither fixed or removed his crooked ass helmet after that puntoslide. -Trooper on Oct 5, 2011

by South Side Expat on Oct 21, 2011 5:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

I get off on correcting him.

WU got his ass handed to him by the Shit Rooster, of all people! Priceless.
Chiburb is an assclown. A real life loser and internet bore.

Mick11's SBN profile.

by Chiburb on Oct 21, 2011 5:51 PM CDT up reply actions   2 recs

I should say "Venezuelan interest".

The sun on the balcony is almost unbearable, worse than the booing fans in Chicago shedding miserable light on his failures at work.

by winningugly on Oct 21, 2011 2:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

It was clear.
but they used to have a relatively decent venezuelan operation. still do, to some extent.

Why any type of decent operation there when they have no decent operation anywhere else in Latin America? That’s why I thought Ozzie might’ve had some influence there. If not, we can drop this.

The sun on the balcony is almost unbearable, worse than the booing fans in Chicago shedding miserable light on his failures at work.

by winningugly on Oct 21, 2011 2:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

Thanks.

You have answered my question.

The sun on the balcony is almost unbearable, worse than the booing fans in Chicago shedding miserable light on his failures at work.

by winningugly on Oct 21, 2011 2:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

One thing I couldn't quite address without making it 800 words longer...

… is Robin Ventura the easy way out? Or is he (good) conflict?

At any rate, that’s why I said the Sox will need more than testicular fortitude. Ventura is a ballsy move, but he’s an empty uniform at the moment, too.

Whales! Squids! Sharks! They're everywhere! Hello, I am Poseidon! Now, when people told me I was crazy that thinly sliced roast beef would be a delicious fast-food option, I knew it was the greatest idea, and you can thank me later for Arby's.

by Jim Margalus on Oct 21, 2011 10:44 AM CDT reply actions   1 recs

rec'd a thousand times over

and another 800 words would not have been a terrible thing

by Rhubarb on Oct 21, 2011 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions  

BNightengale Bob Nightengale
#MLB Great hire by the #Braves, who will soon announce that Greg Walker will be their new hitting coach after leaving #WhiteSox.

by larry on Oct 21, 2011 11:58 AM CDT reply actions  

thrilled for my guy Walk.

all the best in atlanta!

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Oct 21, 2011 12:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

If only Dan Uggla had had Walker, he might have been able to turn around his 2011 season.

Missed opportunities (shakes head, sighs heavily). Damn, they make me sad.

To my knowledge, certain things were not known.
-James Murdoch

by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Oct 21, 2011 12:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

hes got some fresh meat in

Jason Heyward and Freddie Freeman

NAOPOS

by blackoutsox on Oct 21, 2011 1:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

Might be too late for them to turn into Beckham.

The sun on the balcony is almost unbearable, worse than the booing fans in Chicago shedding miserable light on his failures at work.

by winningugly on Oct 21, 2011 1:32 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

If Rick Hahn goes somewhere else, would we ask for compensation?

Not sure what the norm is.

Jim, an idea for an off season article is to talk about the typical org chart (maybe interview someone) and what responsibilities go with what role. I’ve always thought the GM made most of the moves but it seems like, in some cases, they are just the ones that execute the moves. I read somewhere that Hendry was pushed by someone else (team president maybe?) to sign Soriano. It’s also interesting that Epstein is going to the Cubs but won’t be the GM, obviously he’ll have a lot of say in the direction. Kenny on the other hand, seems to report only to Reinsdorf.

by striker on Oct 21, 2011 12:37 PM CDT reply actions  

titles don't mean all that much.

an employer can assign whatever job responsibilities to an employee.

by larry on Oct 21, 2011 12:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

Poor Leadership

The first part of the article was perhaps the best I’ve read in a long time. Nailed on the head the condition of the Sox leadership model and how it’s really bad. The end result proves that thought we all have. Being a Sox fan always means dealing with this stuff, as the Bears fans always have with low-expectation coaches delivering at the same level, as if, possibly, hiring a legit, big time coach would result in expectations down the line to bring in better, more expensive players, etc. In short, the Bears are the NFL version of the Pirates, but only cheaper. The Sox have similiar issues and have gone the other way and brought in high-priced talent that, nonetheless doesn’t threaten to bring championships to town. Williams gamble was that they would increase fan attendance. Sox fans, however, are too smart for that, don’t care for Dunn, Rios and others and stayed home. Ventura was Williams attempt to do more of the same, a low-expectation guy (Robin V.) who will do what they tell him, and take stage directions from Cooper The Rat. So, fans, until the Sox are sold to real baseball people, this stuff will continue. 2005 validated their approach. It will never end.

by Rugmaster D on Oct 21, 2011 12:37 PM CDT reply actions  

(Raises hand).

I’m sorry….what part of $90 million to Peppers says ‘cheap’ ? Same question for the money to Urlacher/Briggs/Hester/Cutler? When was the last time the Pirate traded for an ace pitcher or middle-of-the-order hitter?

Do I agree that the Bears’ coaching staff is middle of the road and that they make some really stupid decisions? Yes. But to call the Bears cheap is simply inaccurate.

To my knowledge, certain things were not known.
-James Murdoch

by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Oct 21, 2011 12:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

My head just exploded

"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun

by Tdogg on Oct 21, 2011 1:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

He's checked in 17 times in 2 1/2 years. Your head has time to heal.

WU got his ass handed to him by the Shit Rooster, of all people! Priceless.
Chiburb is an assclown. A real life loser and internet bore.

Mick11's SBN profile.

by Chiburb on Oct 21, 2011 5:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think it's the hard-on.

RD seems to have had one for Sox management for years.

The sun on the balcony is almost unbearable, worse than the booing fans in Chicago shedding miserable light on his failures at work.

by winningugly on Oct 21, 2011 2:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

my turn to try a scottish quip

‘you mean the hard on you haven’t had in years without taking a blue pill in a van?"

by Rhubarb on Oct 21, 2011 2:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

YOU MADE ANOTHER FUNNY

Whales! Squids! Sharks! They're everywhere! Hello, I am Poseidon! Now, when people told me I was crazy that thinly sliced roast beef would be a delicious fast-food option, I knew it was the greatest idea, and you can thank me later for Arby's.

by Jim Margalus on Oct 21, 2011 2:40 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

It was a shell of a good joke.

The policeman who jumps from a bridge to a plane is Detective John McClane, a.k.a. Bruce Willis. He’s just the star of the whole movie series and stuff, no big deal or anything. -Cruiser

by Uribe Down on Oct 21, 2011 5:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yay, more Twitter fights!

Go larry, it’s yo’ burfday. We gon’ pawty like it’s yo’ burfday.

Unable to link since I am at work. But I think Rongey is larry’s new chew toy.

To my knowledge, certain things were not known.
-James Murdoch

by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Oct 21, 2011 3:36 PM CDT reply actions  

Excellent post

So fast he could hit a ball up the middle and it would hit him in the ass sliding into second.

by colintj on Oct 21, 2011 5:32 PM CDT via mobile reply actions  

larry

Please phone into White Sox Weekly tomorrow and work over Rongey on his own turf, I really wouldn’t enjoy anything more.

by Rhubarb on Oct 21, 2011 10:02 PM CDT reply actions  

and then send him a bill for your time.

it just makes me weak in the knees the way gomez neither fixed or removed his crooked ass helmet after that puntoslide. -Trooper on Oct 5, 2011

by South Side Expat on Oct 22, 2011 12:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

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