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Around SBN: Now They've Screwed Spurs, UEFA Willing To Review Rule

Buehrle earned his contract, but Peavy hasn't come close

Don Cooper congratulates Mark Buehrle on a job well done in his final start, and over the last four years.

This is a signing that simply cannot be justified. Buehrle’s reputation for handling large workloads is essentially worthless, and his expected decline is sharp.

My gut instinct in this case was wrong, but I’m still glad that I took the time to investigate. Both mainstream analysts and sabermetrically-inclined commentators attempted to apply universal truths to a very specific situation which deserved individual treatment. Yes, Buehrle signed a below-market deal, both in terms of dollars and years. And yes, pitchers get injured at incredibly high rates as they age. For us to pretend that we know which of these facts is more important would just be foolhardy.

This time, however, the stock sabermetric principle won out. 

-- David Gassko, The Hardball Times, July 12, 2007.

Mark Buehrle has a way of taking the air out of "stock sabermetric principles." For FIP, he used to be Public Enemy No. 1 before Matt Cain seized the title. Still, after completing his four-year, $56 million contract, it looks like he found another way to get in one more dig.

Star-divide

I didn't intend to look for Buehrle projections from 2007 -- I found this one on an unrelated search -- because baseball has a way of making everybody look foolish at one point or another. But I feel compelled to highlight it because it's a great example of what Colin talked about on Tuesday.

Gassko didn't make that conclusion on a whim. He explained his process, and he consulted MGL of The Book Blog, who also detailed his own reasons for determining that the signing was "at best a tad poor, and at worst, terrible."

They had their case -- chiefly, pitchers with Buehrle's peripherals and workload tend to break down as they cross over to the wrong side of 30. It's grounded in reality, but Gassko was perhaps guiltiest for deciding to phrase his conclusion with absolute phrases when most of his evidence suggested mild skepticism.

The problem (heh) is, Buehrle busted the comparable projections by not really aging. The percentages Gassko applied to Buehrle's numbers over the four years of the contract never factored in:

Projected | Actual
Year IP ERA WAR | IP ERA fWAR rWAR
2008 177 3.96 2.99 | 219 3.79 4.6 4.4
2009 159 3.71 3.16 | 213 3.84 3.4 4.9
2010 140 3.78 2.66 | 210 4.28 3.7 3.5
2011 109 4.08 1.76 | 205 3.59 3.4 3.7

 

Buehrle exceeded the inning projections by a whopping 44 percent, which allowed him to throw six additional wins on the pile. By FanGraphs' simple WAR-to-dollars conversion, Buehrle was worth $66 million over the course of the last four years.

Not everybody of sabermetric orientation was that pessimistic about Buehrle's chances, though. Baseball Think Factory's Dan Szymborski and Chris Dial gave it two thumbs up.

Szymborski:

What's there not to like about this? Buehrle's not a true 3.03 ERA pitcher, but the Pale Hose don't need him to be and they're not paying him like they expect him to pay. Given the market, $14 million a year for a healthy pitcher who's a good bet to put up an ERA+ of 120 every year is an excellent deal. No snark needed in a world in which Barry Zito, an inferior pitcher, gets twice the dough for twice the time.

And Dial:

Pitchers like Mark Buehrle do not come along very often.  He’s already demonstrated durability beyond the arm damage that "should have" happened.  The odds that Buehrle will be very good over the next four seasons are very, very good.  He’s easily going to be very good for four more seasons, and very likely five.  Heck, he’s likely to be good for another ten.  He’s the next generation’s best bet to win 300 games, and the key to being a successful GM is identifying the true stars that will decline atypically, and signing them relatively cheaply and enjoying the ride.  Okay, the purer economics may not make it a great deal, but it’s going to get them a discount after four years if Buehrle continues on like his peers.

They were a lot closer, mostly because they didn't overthink it. They put a lot of thought into it, but they basically said, "He's been very good and extremely durable. He should continue to be good and durable." Buehrle's career has generated so few truly comparable pitchers that maybe we should expect him to most resemble himself.

This is where Don Cooper and Herm Schneider factor in, with help from Ozzie Guillen. I said this before on Sox Machine, but the White Sox staff is great at working on cars while they're running. Buehrle basically contends with rumors about an aching shoulder every spring -- what else is there to talk about? -- but they disappear when the season starts. Likewise, they were great about getting Jon Garland to exceed expectations on an annual basis even with a dead arm that surfaced around June, and they also pushed and pulled Freddy Garcia perfectly before and after his arm surgery. When they know a pitcher, they know a pitcher. They knew Buehrle well enough to give him a big four-year contract, and they got their money back.

Star-divide

Their history of excellent judgment makes their relationship with Jake Peavy all the more curious. It became clear that Peavy couldn't resist pushing himself too hard well before he admitted he had a problem. Still, the Sox have never found a way to establish a system of checks and balances with The Glass Bulldog, mainly because they give him veto power for everything. Hell, they came up with a six-man rotation with the sole purpose of easing Peavy back into a regular starting job, and they caved in after just one challenge.

Maybe it's inevitable that Peavy will get injured, but had the Sox stuck to their guns instead of letting Peavy overrule them a half-dozen times, at least they would know they were powerless against the aging process.

It's really bizarre. Jerry Reinsdorf hated giving pitchers contracts longer than three years, and really, the Sox did a nice job of working around that constraint. So it was a huge moment when the Sox not only gave Buehrle a fourth year, but threw in a little bit of no-trade protection. It was a commitment that reflected their special bond.

Or at least it was supposed to be special. But then the Sox gave four years to Scott Linebrink when all other bidders stopped at three. With Peavy, Williams went out of his way to trade for a four-year deal that cost more than Buehrle's, and watched as his on-field staff made little effort to actually protect the investment.

We don't know if Buehrle will be around 2011, and it would suck if unrelated recklessness made him a budgetary impossibility. We do know the Sox are stuck with Peavy for one more year, and hopefully the Sox will decide to apply their Mark Smarts to Peavy whether or not Buehrle is back.

Comment 118 comments  |  3 recs  | 

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great digging and write-up jim.

when buerhle eventually retires, with the white sox or not, the sox have to retire his number.

and he’s more than earned that contract, and he was probably worth more than $66million if you average out the fWAR and rWAR..

also, looking at the fangraphs leader boards for the years 2001-2011:

he’s #1 in innings and #3 in wins – i’m not surprised, but still impressed

he’s #6 in fWAR – that ranking might be a little higher if we use rWAR

Jim Thome sponsor(s) this page.
Highly underrated, Mark Kotsay became the best defensive designated hitter in American League history in 2010.

by onlysoxfaninbasel on Oct 5, 2011 7:26 AM CDT reply actions   1 recs

This.

WU got his ass handed to him by the Shit Rooster, of all people! Priceless.
Chiburb is an assclown. A real life loser and internet bore.

Mick11's SBN profile.

by Chiburb on Oct 5, 2011 7:55 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

Love 'the Glass Bulldog' name.

Well done.

To my knowledge, certain things were not known.
-James Murdoch

by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Oct 5, 2011 7:28 AM CDT reply actions  

I'm glad to see it catching on

The first time I tossed it out back in August or whenever I got a bunch of ahem, marital aid jokes back.

Our manager wears 13, we were supposedly cursed, and we wear black. Let's play.

by ChiSoxRox on Oct 5, 2011 8:26 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

That's not exactly wrong.

But I think it holds up. Good work.

Whales! Squids! Sharks! They're everywhere! Hello, I am Poseidon! Now, when people told me I was crazy that thinly sliced roast beef would be a delicious fast-food option, I knew it was the greatest idea, and you can thank me later for Arby's.

by Jim Margalus on Oct 6, 2011 2:20 AM CDT up reply actions  

"colin".

Also, what is this “Sox Machine” of what you speak? It also resides on a T-shirt I was wearing this morning.

Well done. Buehrle is my favorite Sox player over the last 35 years. Pay the man. He’s earned it. And he should suffer along with us with Peavy on his team at least one more year, since he probably helped recruit him.

"MY NAME IS YOANIS CESPEDEZ YOU KILLED MY FATHER" WHAT!

by winningugly on Oct 5, 2011 8:21 AM CDT via mobile reply actions  

might not be able to afford it

you can’t get sentimental, that’s why Alan Greenspan cried when Ayn Rand snuffed it.

by hoodlight on Oct 5, 2011 8:43 AM CDT up reply actions  

Depending on how much stock one puts in fWAR...

Peavy — although still a decent amount away from “earning” his contract — still put up a 3 WAR season. That surprised me. Even more surprising was that the Sox were second to the Phillies in total pitching fWAR, trailing by just one win-above-replacement. Perhaps the 2012 incarnation of this team isn’t that far away from contention, provided they can somehow squeeze Buehrle back in.

by CWSKeith on Oct 5, 2011 8:33 AM CDT reply actions  

hah, rec'd

Jim Thome sponsor(s) this page.
Highly underrated, Mark Kotsay became the best defensive designated hitter in American League history in 2010.

by onlysoxfaninbasel on Oct 5, 2011 9:13 AM CDT up reply actions  

If they can get him fit

could be a big surprise in the nest next year, they should still get shut of him first chance they get.

by hoodlight on Oct 5, 2011 8:54 AM CDT up reply actions  

after the 4th and 5th attempts at understanding the last part of words you jumbled together, i gave up

"Rhubarb, if you wouldn’t mind, ram your taint into your monitor as hard as you can." - joewho112

by BoeJouma on Oct 5, 2011 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions  

Translation:

If peavy is healthy, he could start off strong and being a desireable commodity. At that point, they should trade him for whatever they can get.

by coffeepac on Oct 5, 2011 11:53 AM CDT up reply actions  

1 of my problems with fWAR

but yeah I’m inclined to believe if handled properly the Sox get 1 really good season from Peavy next year.

"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun

by Tdogg on Oct 5, 2011 9:45 AM CDT up reply actions  

Peavy's season really was remarkable

Managing to have a near 4 K/BB with an ERA near 5 is pretty amazing. Hopefully some of the randomness swings the other way next year. Pretty sure he had the biggest gap between FIP and ERA in baseball.

by MelidoPerez on Oct 5, 2011 11:11 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yep

Peavy’s stats predict a really good year for him. Minus the glass bulldog effect.

"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun

by Tdogg on Oct 5, 2011 2:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

Over Danks?

No thanks.

"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun

by Tdogg on Oct 5, 2011 9:46 AM CDT up reply actions  

Floyd?

"MY NAME IS YOANIS CESPEDEZ YOU KILLED MY FATHER" WHAT!

by winningugly on Oct 5, 2011 10:11 AM CDT up reply actions  

Bueller?

"MY NAME IS YOANIS CESPEDEZ YOU KILLED MY FATHER" WHAT!

by winningugly on Oct 5, 2011 10:26 AM CDT up reply actions  

yes

"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun

by Tdogg on Oct 5, 2011 11:00 AM CDT up reply actions  

It seems the only reason people want the White Sox to sign Buehrle is emotion and sentimentality

that kind of makes me hope, “He Gone”. I got my closure seeing him pitch his last game of the season. He will be missed of course but unfortunately he is too expensive.

Off-Season Proposition Bet Tally - 0 won - 3 lost

by Rhubarb on Oct 5, 2011 11:05 AM CDT up reply actions  

Liar.

He was our best pitcher. Emotion plays a part, sure, but he’s pretty fucking good.

"MY NAME IS YOANIS CESPEDEZ YOU KILLED MY FATHER" WHAT!

by winningugly on Oct 5, 2011 11:21 AM CDT up reply actions  

I understand that.

Close to market value sounds not as good as below market value, but I like the VaR for Buehrle at fair market value compared to the loser contracts for some of our position players.

"MY NAME IS YOANIS CESPEDEZ YOU KILLED MY FATHER" WHAT!

by winningugly on Oct 5, 2011 11:32 AM CDT up reply actions  

Perhaps.

I think he’s a good risk to outperform his contract since he has a history of such.

"MY NAME IS YOANIS CESPEDEZ YOU KILLED MY FATHER" WHAT!

by winningugly on Oct 5, 2011 11:57 AM CDT up reply actions  

Thats fine but what will his contract be?

We are strapped for cash and have a pretty good rotation as is, even with Floyd or Danks traded and Buehrle gone. The only reason anyone has given, taking payroll into account, for keeping Buehrle is their emotional attachment to him.

Off-Season Proposition Bet Tally - 0 won - 3 lost

by Rhubarb on Oct 5, 2011 11:59 AM CDT up reply actions  

yup.

the issue is that is appears the white sox cannot have all the toys they want. so what’s the tradeoff they should make. MB for 3 years/45 million (or something)? danks for 1 year/$10.5 million? danks for 4 years/$55 million (or something)? floyd for 2 years/$16.5 million? game out the scenarios, assign values and pick a winner.

by larry on Oct 5, 2011 12:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

All things equal,

Danks is probably the better value.

"MY NAME IS YOANIS CESPEDEZ YOU KILLED MY FATHER" WHAT!

by winningugly on Oct 5, 2011 12:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

this

"Rhubarb, if you wouldn’t mind, ram your taint into your monitor as hard as you can." - joewho112

by BoeJouma on Oct 5, 2011 12:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

just to note

last four seasons (MB’s last contract):

MB: 16.5 bWAR, 15.2 fWAR
danks: 18.1 bWAR, 15.6 fWAR

by larry on Oct 5, 2011 12:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

and danks is a good bet to improve.

Some people get so rich they lose all respect for humanity. That's how rich I want to be.

by MarketMaker on Oct 5, 2011 1:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

Are you the type of man

who knows a good bet when he sees one?

How’s that new phone?

"MY NAME IS YOANIS CESPEDEZ YOU KILLED MY FATHER" WHAT!

by winningugly on Oct 5, 2011 1:32 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

i know a bad bet when i see one.

Some people get so rich they lose all respect for humanity. That's how rich I want to be.

by MarketMaker on Oct 5, 2011 6:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

uh huh

nuts to want Buerhle over Danks with age and money.

"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun

by Tdogg on Oct 5, 2011 2:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

My reasoning is because I think Danks and Floyd can bring us talent in the trade market

If you trade those two and sign Buehrle then it’s less of a PR hit then if you just trade the two.

by striker on Oct 5, 2011 12:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

They destroyed public relations with the 2011 season

Honestly, how many people won’t buy tickets just because Buehrle wasn’t re-signed? It sucks but keeping Danks, letting Buehrle walk and trading Floyd is probably our best bet to maximize what we have to work with. The White Sox need to not put good money after bad, like it or not we have to operate in within the constraints of Rios, Dunn and Peavy until they are gone. Then there is Konerko who should experience some sort of decline over the course of his contract too.

Off-Season Proposition Bet Tally - 0 won - 3 lost

by Rhubarb on Oct 5, 2011 1:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

If you real goal is to compete next year

You can’t let go of 2 of them. Only 1.

"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun

by Tdogg on Oct 5, 2011 2:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

How so?

Peavy, Buerhle, Danks. Floyd, Humber and Sale.
Pick 5

"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun

by Tdogg on Oct 5, 2011 2:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

Trade for him midseason

"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun

by Tdogg on Oct 5, 2011 2:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

I miscounted

WHAT ABOUT ZACH STEWART?

Off-Season Proposition Bet Tally - 0 won - 3 lost

by Rhubarb on Oct 5, 2011 2:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

what about him?

Emergency

"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun

by Tdogg on Oct 5, 2011 2:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

when i type in all caps it means I am joking

BUT HE ALMOST THREW A NO HITTER!

Off-Season Proposition Bet Tally - 0 won - 3 lost

by Rhubarb on Oct 5, 2011 2:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

lol

sorry working and glancing. Missed the joke.

"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun

by Tdogg on Oct 5, 2011 2:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

Would signing Buehrle

to a new deal mean losing Floyd or Danks? And if so, who’s more likely to go?

by THE_CELEBRATOR on Oct 5, 2011 10:46 AM CDT reply actions  

Heh. Spot on.

The policeman who jumps from a bridge to a plane is Detective John McClane, a.k.a. Bruce Willis. He’s just the star of the whole movie series and stuff, no big deal or anything. -Cruiser

by Uribe Down on Oct 5, 2011 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions  

So Buehrle will return is what you're saying.

"keep a weather eye on the horizon, dearest captain of the douche canoe" - BJ

by Shoeless In SC on Oct 5, 2011 1:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

Thanks, Jim.

Nothing beats a good “Buehrle is The Awesome” article. I never tire of them, really.

The policeman who jumps from a bridge to a plane is Detective John McClane, a.k.a. Bruce Willis. He’s just the star of the whole movie series and stuff, no big deal or anything. -Cruiser

by Uribe Down on Oct 5, 2011 10:59 AM CDT reply actions  

fWAR, bWAR, gWAR, what is it good for

what about buehrle’s value in real dollars? he’s got to be up there in terms of merch for the club, right? or is this information not publicly available / just inconsequential compared to the cost of his contract?

I love seasons too. That's why I live in a place that skips the shitty ones.

by thatshortkid on Oct 5, 2011 12:44 PM CDT reply actions  

mostly inconsequential.

how many people only would buy MB jerseys etc., instead of just simply purchasing PK’s if MB wasn’t here? how many people won’t go to games because MB isn’t here? what’s that word? fungible.

now, what isn’t so fungible is the player who produces 3.5 wins on a consistent basis. and wins are predominantly what brings fans to the ballpark, sells merchandise, etc.

by larry on Oct 5, 2011 12:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

to illustrate

i purposefully go to games when MB is starting. i purposefully avoid games floyd is starting. swap the two, and they’re going to lose revenue from me. maybe i go to more danks games. but not on weeknights.

by larry on Oct 5, 2011 1:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

What position is the moon in during your games?

Dewpoint?

"MY NAME IS YOANIS CESPEDEZ YOU KILLED MY FATHER" WHAT!

by winningugly on Oct 5, 2011 1:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

One.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftjEcrrf7r0

"MY NAME IS YOANIS CESPEDEZ YOU KILLED MY FATHER" WHAT!

by winningugly on Oct 5, 2011 1:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

That was next.

But U2’s version is important to me. Was banging on a heavy bag in my garage in 1992 when wife #2 did a smoky burn-out of the driveway after an argument. My best buddy was walking his 2 kids (now 25 and 23) past the house as I was punching the bag and all he still remembers is hearing “One” wafting out of the garage while I was flailing away.

Good times. LOL.

"MY NAME IS YOANIS CESPEDEZ YOU KILLED MY FATHER" WHAT!

by winningugly on Oct 5, 2011 1:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

sounds like my friend Joe

when old Joe pulled up the driveway blasting the Guess Who’s ‘American Woman’ you knew he was once again single and you were about to get very much fucked up.

Poor guy is married now, doesn’t drink or touch the buds anymore at all.

by e-gus on Oct 5, 2011 4:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

Touch the buds?

Did he molest you guys?

sideways smiley face

by TasteeFreeze on Oct 5, 2011 5:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

I suppose that's one way to get over a break-up.

"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"

by U-God on Oct 5, 2011 5:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

Outstanding, Beavis.

Rec’d.

"MY NAME IS YOANIS CESPEDEZ YOU KILLED MY FATHER" WHAT!

by winningugly on Oct 5, 2011 1:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

Hell yeah!

"Alex is our best option right now." - Ozzie Guillen answering the media regarding Alex Rios continually batting clean-up (8/31/11)

by tailgater on Oct 5, 2011 1:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

two guys near me at this starbucks talking baseball (rather loudly and broishly)

and one says “if youre a baseball fan, you know who the fuck mife pelfrey is.” can someone drive to des moines and punch these two fuckers? i would do it, but i want to fulfill my love of seeing people fall /get hit /dominated.

"Rhubarb, if you wouldn’t mind, ram your taint into your monitor as hard as you can." - joewho112

by BoeJouma on Oct 5, 2011 1:15 PM CDT reply actions  

who the fuck is mike pelfrey?

Joe Buck is just White Noise to me. It’s like the game is being called by a CD of whale songs. - mechanical turk

by blackoutsox on Oct 5, 2011 2:37 PM CDT via iPhone app up reply actions  

don't answer I looked it up

Joe Buck is just White Noise to me. It’s like the game is being called by a CD of whale songs. - mechanical turk

by blackoutsox on Oct 5, 2011 2:41 PM CDT via iPhone app up reply actions  

I'll take Beuhrle over Danks or Floyd!!

Danks will get 5 years and $80 mil from someone after 2012 but not the Chisox. Sign Beuhrle now to a 2 or 3 year old deal and extend Floy’s deal. Neither Danks nor Peavy will be on the Sox after 2012. Wake up and smell the coffee!!

PS – Kenny should donate his entire paycheck for 2012 to help re-sign #56!!

by soxfan50 on Oct 5, 2011 6:36 PM CDT reply actions  

Wowzers

Off-Season Proposition Bet Tally - 0 won - 3 lost

by Rhubarb on Oct 5, 2011 6:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

Perhaps decaf.

Some people get so rich they lose all respect for humanity. That's how rich I want to be.

by MarketMaker on Oct 5, 2011 7:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

FDG

did this guy never hear of a rubber arm? they don’t play baseball in a computer, you know.

by obnoxious american on Oct 5, 2011 7:39 PM CDT reply actions  

False.

"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"

by U-God on Oct 5, 2011 8:12 PM CDT up reply actions   2 recs

Sounds like the Red Sox like Sandy and D-Mart.

Something tells me they’ll take their pick, and we’ll be stuck with the leftovers.

"That baseball is the smartest thing out on that field." —Hawk Harrelson

by mikecws91 on Oct 5, 2011 8:18 PM CDT reply actions  

yep

and boston is usually smart with the money, i don’t think they’re going to offer significantly higher salary to a 1st year manager than what the white sox would offer. from martinez, alomar’s perspective, it’s about finding the right fit, chicago and boston have their +’s and -’s, job-related or not.

Jim Thome sponsor(s) this page.
Highly underrated, Mark Kotsay became the best defensive designated hitter in American League history in 2010.

by onlysoxfaninbasel on Oct 6, 2011 12:39 AM CDT up reply actions  

well... boston isn't as tolerant of other races as other cities. so thats a plus in our favor.

they would also be expected to win quicker and more often there. (thats not a negative… if they don’t want to win i don’t want them).

both cities are great. food, nightlife, historic, both great sports towns…

red sox get more “face time”, more money, more history

white sox have more loyalty. you’d basically have to shoot someone to get booted. they both played here and probably feel comfortable here. martinez wife is from here and his kid is going to northwestern.

its an interesting decision.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Oct 6, 2011 12:51 AM CDT up reply actions  

this is leaning towards OT if you want to push the topic to RRRR, but i think boston and chicago are on par with each other when it comes to race-relations

but generally i agree…

actually, i’m moving back to boston for personal and professional reasons, but chicago is a MUCH better city to live in than boston, all things considered, hopefully dave martinez sees similarly :-)

also, if theo is leaving, there’s less certainty in how operations will be managed including philosophy/strategy of which players they would acquire…at least you know what to expect from KW

Jim Thome sponsor(s) this page.
Highly underrated, Mark Kotsay became the best defensive designated hitter in American League history in 2010.

by onlysoxfaninbasel on Oct 6, 2011 6:31 AM CDT up reply actions  

2 of my 3 favorite cities.

the third? vegas.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Oct 6, 2011 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions  

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10083hb_small KenWo4LiFe

Archerme_small Uribe Down