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Rockin' Robin- Ventura Back on South Side

In case you have been hiding under a rock the last few days, Robin Ventura was appointed as the next Manager of the White Sox.  We all have opinions on this hiring, some (like mine) more positive than others.  However, we really have no clue on what his strategy will be.  We have heard that he is receptive to sabermetrics, but also that he is an old school guy.  Shawn Green, who had a pretty impressive career in his own right, tweeted that of any former teammate he had ever had, Ventura would be his pick for manager.  The Score's Laurence Holmes had a nice interview with Darrin Jackson about Robin and his thoughts on what went wrong in 2011 (Scroll down to hour 2 of the 10/6 show).   

What do we know about Robin?  He was a very good ballplayer that spent time in the three biggest markets in the country and was well liked in all three.  After his playing career he took some family time and was only recently brought back into the organization as an assistant to Buddy Bell.  He, along with Ryne Sandberg and Michael Jordan made the number 23 pretty popular in Chicago during the 90's.  He also wasn't afraid to mix it up with Hall of Famers Frank Thomas and Nolan Ryan.  

Star-divide

Robin was drafted 10th overall by the White Sox in the 1988 draft.  He was one of four first round picks (Jack McDowell, Frank Thomas and Alex Fernandez being the others) that led the Sox to prominence starting as early as 1990.  He didn't spend much time in the minor leagues, appearing in just 129 games before getting the call up at the end of 1989.  Ventura was given the starting third basemen role in the final season at Old Comiskey park, and struggled with the bat as he hit .249/.324/.318 with 5 homers and 54 runs bated in.    

* A first year MLB 3rd basemen who hit .250 with a good glove and not a lot of power?  Sounds kind of familiar.  Brent Morel will benefit from this move quite a bit.  

Ventura went on to become one of the better hitters in Sox history after that tough rookie campaign.  He averaged just over 23 home runs and 93 RBI's over the next 6 seasons, with his high water mark of 34 and 105 in 1996.  He also earned 4 gold gloves and an All Star appearance (1992) over those 6 seasons.  

* It was in that time where Robin Ventura became the favorite of many Sox fans.  I know a lot of people who liked him more than Frank Thomas, very similar to a lot of Bulls fans that liked Scottie Pippen more than Jordan.

The 1997 season looked like it was going to be a special one.  The Sox signed Albert Belle to team with Thomas, Ventura and Harold Baines in what looked on paper to be one of the best offenses in team history.  Unfortunately, Ventura never made it out of the gate.  A disgusting injury, broken and dislocated ankle, put his season in jeopardy.  Robin returned to the club much ahead of schedule on July 24th.  Days later the "White Flag" was raised and the Sox dumped Harold Baines, Wilson Alvarez and Roberto Hernandez.  The Sox finished 6 games back of Cleveland after the trade and after Jerry Reinsdorf claimed "anybody who thinks we can catch Cleveland is crazy".  

* I am sure Ventura wasn't too happy about that.  He busted his ass to come back while the Sox were in contention, only to see them deal two of their best pitchers and Baines within a week.

Ventura played one more season with the Sox, hitting his usual 21 homers and 91 RBI's before leaving as a free agent.  He was victim of a team that signed Belle and Jamie Navarro and didn't have money to go around to an aging fan favorite.  That sounds familiar too, as we may have seen Mark Buehrle's last White Sox start because of the money owed to Adam Dunn, Jake Peavy and Alex Rios.  

Ventura signed with the Mets, and after a great first season where he hit .301/.379/.529 with 32 homers and 120 RBI's, saw his stats slowly start to dwindle. He became a part time player with the Yankees and Dodgers until his career ended after 2004 with a line of .267/.362/.444 with 294 homers and 1,182 RBI's.   

The thing I will remember about Ventura, other than the Nolan Ryan incident and his gruesome injury was just how unbelievable he was charging bunts/swinging bunts.  It was a thing of beauty the way he charged, barehanded, fired and fell to the ground to get the out.  

Most of you guys are somewhere around my age, what are your favorite Ventura moments?  

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Maybe fading memory, maybe imagination...

But I recall Robin as the best hitter I ever saw after being in the hole 0-2. Seemed he was always drawing a walk or getting a hit on the eventual 3-2 pitch.
Correct me if I’m wrong.

WU got his ass handed to him by the Shit Rooster, of all people! Priceless.
Chiburb is an assclown. A real life loser and internet bore.

Mick11's SBN profile.

by Chiburb on Oct 8, 2011 6:08 AM CDT via mobile reply actions  

Grand Slam

Pick one. Dude was the master of it.

"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun

by Tdogg on Oct 8, 2011 7:42 AM CDT reply actions  

<>
to Bulls fans that liked Scottie Pippen more than Jordan.

by obnoxious american on Oct 8, 2011 9:10 AM CDT reply actions  

strange allegiences aside,

that double he hit in the gap the first game after his ankle rehab was just awesome. memory is hazy, but i think it was in the 8th to put the sox up 3-2.

and i can’t think of being more angry with the sox when they lowballed him and he ended up signing with the mets. if only he was on the 2000 team.

by obnoxious american on Oct 8, 2011 9:17 AM CDT up reply actions  

yep. that was the game winning hit that day.

and the way they handled him leaving was terrible. i hope they don’t low ball buehrle.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Oct 8, 2011 11:45 AM CDT up reply actions  

you rang?

Reporter: I was wondering if at any point in my lifetime the Cubs weren't going to be run by a guy who didn't immediately remind me of failure, confusion, or imminent death

by Hazymania on Oct 10, 2011 1:10 AM CDT up reply actions  

talking bout me man

Pippen was my favorite player. On the court that is.

"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun

by Tdogg on Oct 8, 2011 9:37 AM CDT up reply actions  

Nowhere

does he say that Pippen is superior to Jordan in ability, only superior in his heart. Pippen is a much more relatable player (not the best of what he does, like most of us; had to deal with living in the shadow of greatness and not getting the glory he deserved), and significantly less of a dick.

Pippen is more liked by me as well.

LeBron James: Which of His Blessings would you deny?

by ProfessorEmmer on Oct 8, 2011 3:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

nothing strange about it at all

More than a few Bulls fans echo my opinion. No doubt who was the best but loved Pippen’s game. His unselfishness, the defense and the under-appreciated greatness was easy to root for. Him taking the defensive assignment against Magic in 91 was one of my favorite title moments.

"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun

by Tdogg on Oct 8, 2011 11:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

i prefer to watch excellent players over very good ones.

i can’t imagine anyone not preferring the best basketball player ever. but this is the sort of thinking that creates nick punto. that scrappy unselfishness and defense is easy to root for.

by larry on Oct 8, 2011 11:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

that's silly as hell

Punto and Pippen? Regardless what has that got to do with the price of tea in China? The best player doesn’t have to always be someone’s favorite. There are many legitimate reasons to be drawn to a player in any sport besides being a sucky try hard player. We are talking about sacrificing for the good of the team. Totally different thing.

"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun

by Tdogg on Oct 8, 2011 11:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

of course i was doing that to tweak you.

this just seems like one of those things people do to be purposefully contrarian. the gulf in class between the two is huge. it’s like saying you prefer ernie banks to babe ruth “on the field”. i didn’t know basketball hipsters existed but i guess you prove they do.

by larry on Oct 9, 2011 10:02 AM CDT up reply actions  

when is my next time to get you in a bar?

We have many things to argue discuss.

"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun

by Tdogg on Oct 8, 2011 11:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

pippens a hall of famer

and is compared with lebron james. do not besmirch his name with the soulless one.

NAOPOS

by blackoutsox on Oct 8, 2011 11:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

i don't pretend to be as well-versed in basketball valuation as i am in baseball

but the people who are tell me that james’ career has already been as good as pippen’s. that seems like another silly comparison.

by larry on Oct 9, 2011 10:04 AM CDT up reply actions  

Lebron is better than Pippen already.

"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun

by Tdogg on Oct 9, 2011 10:26 AM CDT up reply actions  

At holding onto his money.

Show me the rings, though.

"MY NAME IS YOANIS CESPEDEZ YOU KILLED MY FATHER" WHAT!

by winningugly on Oct 9, 2011 1:22 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

how old was jordan when he won his first title?

surely you remember that the same argument was used against him. oops.

by larry on Oct 9, 2011 4:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

that's the best you got?

Don’t think Jordan had the same cast assembled as did LBJ last year at Lebron’s age.

"MY NAME IS YOANIS CESPEDEZ YOU KILLED MY FATHER" WHAT!

by winningugly on Oct 10, 2011 8:04 AM CDT up reply actions  

lol.

yeah. let’s look at one season. christ.

by larry on Oct 10, 2011 9:03 AM CDT up reply actions  

unselfishness????!!!!!

1.8

"Good teams win games. Bad teams have meetings."

by BobbySouthSide on Oct 9, 2011 7:52 PM CDT via iPhone app up reply actions  

"I don't feel like going back in, Coach."

One-off, sure, but as remembered as Robbie Alomar’s expectorant. Doesn’t detract from his greatness – much.

"MY NAME IS YOANIS CESPEDEZ YOU KILLED MY FATHER" WHAT!

by winningugly on Oct 10, 2011 8:05 AM CDT up reply actions  

“I didn’t know the season only goes until August First”

Robin Ventura
(Sox third baseman, 1997)

"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun

by Tdogg on Oct 8, 2011 9:40 AM CDT reply actions  

why didn't they get robin ventura to chicago and have a proper press conference?

the whole radio teleconference was fucking bizarre. something funny is going on. (and i don’t mean haha funny)

"michael gilhaney is an example of a man that is nearly banjaxed from the principal of the atomic theory. would it astonish you to hear that he is nearly half a bicycle?" ~~ sergeant pluck

by BuehrleMan on Oct 8, 2011 9:51 AM CDT reply actions  

A former White Sox player has been turned

It’s weird that Ventura appeared out of now. The city sees a hero. You suspect a traitor?

"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun

by Tdogg on Oct 8, 2011 10:01 AM CDT up reply actions  

big whoop.

really, you don’t think it was at all strange the way he was introduced?

"michael gilhaney is an example of a man that is nearly banjaxed from the principal of the atomic theory. would it astonish you to hear that he is nearly half a bicycle?" ~~ sergeant pluck

by BuehrleMan on Oct 8, 2011 4:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

oh i think it is extremely strange.

wasn’t the explanation that there was a leak… they were going to do it on Tuesday but Kenny decided to address it right away- hence the goofy conference call.

that being said i’ll be watching on tuesday

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Oct 8, 2011 5:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

They admitted as much.. they were planning on doing it Tuesday

But word leaked, so did they a rushed call in thing to get the proper info out to end rumors, and will properly do it later. They explained it all that day.

by Grinder in Training on Oct 9, 2011 5:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

He has risen!

Whales! Squids! Sharks! They're everywhere! Hello, I am Poseidon! Now, when people told me I was crazy that thinly sliced roast beef would be a delicious fast-food option, I knew it was the greatest idea, and you can thank me later for Arby's.

by Jim Margalus on Oct 8, 2011 11:45 AM CDT up reply actions  

Not a moment, but I'm one who liked Ventura more than Thomas

Mostly because I could emulate his swing as a left handed batter. Couldn’t hit for shit, but I did get the swing down pretty well.

by Titan52 on Oct 8, 2011 12:04 PM CDT reply actions  

Gotta be the grand slams. Before every nerd told me clutch doesn't exist, I was pretty sure Robin was the definition of it.

And he was great defensively. Ventura and Thomas were an awesome duo to watch as a kid. Loved em both.

I was hurt more by the strike season than the white flag trade.
I was pretty disenfranchised by baseball in the mid to late 90s after they robbed me of 1994.

Some people get so rich they lose all respect for humanity. That's how rich I want to be.

by MarketMaker on Oct 8, 2011 12:58 PM CDT reply actions  

Aggreed about the strike.

That killed my interest for a good 3-4 years. If it wasn’t for Ripken and McGwire (and Sosa, I guess) I wouldn’t have come back. I am glad I did though. Then there was “The kids could play” and I moved to Chicago and it’s been great ever since.

Well, boys, it's a round ball and a round bat and you got to hit the ball square. ~Joe Schultz, 1969

by zevsenesca on Oct 8, 2011 1:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

ditto

I still have cups from New Comiskey from the 94 season. They have the season schedule printed out on them and everything

Reporter: I was wondering if at any point in my lifetime the Cubs weren't going to be run by a guy who didn't immediately remind me of failure, confusion, or imminent death

by Hazymania on Oct 10, 2011 1:15 AM CDT up reply actions  

except Sosa McGuire didn't bring me back

It was the Ozzie hire that really got me paying attention again.

Reporter: I was wondering if at any point in my lifetime the Cubs weren't going to be run by a guy who didn't immediately remind me of failure, confusion, or imminent death

by Hazymania on Oct 10, 2011 1:16 AM CDT up reply actions  

The 200 Sox were fun to watch

and Ozzie being hired brought me all the way back

Where the white women at?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGQ-ISsDm8M

by parkernutws05 on Oct 10, 2011 2:01 AM CDT up reply actions  

**2000 white sox

Where the white women at?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGQ-ISsDm8M

by parkernutws05 on Oct 10, 2011 2:01 AM CDT up reply actions  

i was back watching baseball and cheering the sox opening day 1995.

then the team dropped a deuce. chris sabo. for christ sakes.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Oct 10, 2011 10:40 AM CDT up reply actions  

your boy ozzie with a .588 OPS (56 OPS+) that year didn't help anything.

Some people get so rich they lose all respect for humanity. That's how rich I want to be.

by MarketMaker on Oct 10, 2011 12:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

Grand slams and clutch hits

Heck the guy even hit a Grand Slam Single, for the Mets.

Ventura has what the 2011 White Sox, aside from Konerko and AJ,, sorely lacked: cajones. His nuts did not retreat into his intestines when the bases are loaded.

It was stunning how bad the Sox were this season with runners in scoring position and especially when the bases were loaded. For all that Kenny talks about “Chicago tough”, we mostly have team of wimps, with Dunn as the poster boy (“I can only hit when I’m playing on a losing team in a small market and nobody is booing me or even watching”) and Rios runner-up (“I was fine when I played in a country where hockey is #1”).

If Ventura can add some Chicago toughness to the young kids (Morel, Beckham, Flowers) it will help.

Baseball is life.

by elgonzo4sox on Oct 8, 2011 12:58 PM CDT reply actions  

I'd settle for never hearing the words "Chicago tough" ever again

And working on finding players before their best years are behind them.

Whales! Squids! Sharks! They're everywhere! Hello, I am Poseidon! Now, when people told me I was crazy that thinly sliced roast beef would be a delicious fast-food option, I knew it was the greatest idea, and you can thank me later for Arby's.

by Jim Margalus on Oct 8, 2011 1:05 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions   1 recs

Also banned:

Grind.
Swagger.

On the bubble:
Heart.
Passion.

"His Load got Sloppy" Colintj

by DrEmilioLizardo on Oct 8, 2011 1:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

Phew!

I was worried about over-using FUBAR and SNAFU…

Well, boys, it's a round ball and a round bat and you got to hit the ball square. ~Joe Schultz, 1969

by zevsenesca on Oct 8, 2011 1:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

don't encourage him

"keep a weather eye on the horizon, dearest captain of the douche canoe" - BJ

by Shoeless In SC on Oct 9, 2011 5:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

You're right - that wasn't a complete White Sox With Cajones List

Here’s my complete list:

Absolutely unquestioned (just look at the ring, baby): PK, AJ, Buehrle

Has them and not much fazes him: Q, Peavy, Pierre, Santos, Crain, Sale

Looks like he has them: De Aza, Lilli

May have one: Alexei, Danks, Floyd, Humber

Too early to tell: Flowers, Tank

Nice guys but sorely lacking: Thornton, Beckham, Morel

Candidates for a BeeGees tribute band or Richard Simmons workout video: Dunn, Rios

Baseball is life.

by elgonzo4sox on Oct 8, 2011 2:06 PM CDT up reply actions   2 recs

BHB himself only 'may have one?"

"Sportsmanship is just loser talk for losing."

by boyonthedock on Oct 8, 2011 4:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

In 2008 he had a full pair, as did Alexei

But something has gone missing this year…

Baseball is life.

by elgonzo4sox on Oct 8, 2011 8:46 PM CDT up reply actions  

I remember Robin being unbelievably slow and my sister saying that there was no doubt he wore whitey tighties

I remember him being boring but he had a great eye at the plate and a sweet lefty swing. When we drafted him and I heard he broke the college baseball hit record I envisioned the Sox getting the next Wade Boggs. I was somewhat disappointed he never seemed to crack .300 but was pleased with his power. I was a Thomas guy, but I liked Ventura he just wasn’t as much fun for young rhubarb as ozzie, frank and blackjack were.

Off-Season Proposition Bet Tally - 1 won - 4 lost

by Rhubarb on Oct 8, 2011 2:39 PM CDT reply actions  

this should be interesting
But FOX, using technology from Bloomberg Sports, will make new use of the advanced statistics depicted in the recent film "Moneyball" during its coverage of both the American League Championship Series and World Series.

Bloomberg has assembled pitch-by-pitch data dating to 2006 — and other raw statistics going back to before 1900 — that will form the basis of the analytics that appear on screen.

Perhaps the most interesting new wrinkle will be a tracker that shows on-base percentage odds as they change with every pitch — the type of innovation that helped popularize televised poker, bringing the predictive nature of the sport to life.

"With each pitch, we will be recalculating the odds of the batter reaching base, based on the specific matchup, the ballpark in question and the circumstances of men on base and the inning," said Bill Squadron, the head of Bloomberg Sports.

Say Hamilton is facing Verlander. When the count is 0-0, the odds of reaching base might be 28 percent. Then Verlander throws a strike and the number drops to 18 percent. If he had thrown a ball, it might have shot up to 36 percent.

The information will be displayed at the bottom of the screen in simple fashion: "Reach base: 36 percent."

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/ALCS-broadcast-on-Fox-Bloomberg-Sports-technology-moneyball-style-advanced-statistics-100711-

by larry on Oct 8, 2011 3:09 PM CDT reply actions  

yeah i was disappointed with their stuff from what i saw of it

So fast he could hit a ball up the middle and it would hit him in the ass sliding into second.

by colintj on Oct 8, 2011 3:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

FAD. not only did he ruin the beautiful a's baseball stadium

but he’s been out of his mind the last 10 years making ridiculous decision after decision. i’m sad he passed and the NFL would not be anywhere near what it was without him… but as a raiders fan i am happy for a new generation.

(not as loyal in football as baseball apparently)

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Oct 8, 2011 3:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

what?

Taking Heyward-Bay at 7 overall was the pick of the decade! Can you say visionary???

GET TO THE CHOPPA!!!

by hoosier3 on Oct 8, 2011 4:31 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

Love or hate him

AJ is a pretty interesting baseball player.

"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun

by Tdogg on Oct 9, 2011 10:23 AM CDT up reply actions  

Boers and Holmes had a great interview with Ventura

Its Bernsteinless, so I figure its okay to post it on a Kenwo thread. :P

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/show/the-boers-and-bernstein-show/

It is on the 10/7 show, The replay on the 5th hour is the easiest

by 815Sox on Oct 9, 2011 4:24 PM CDT reply actions  

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